Forgive me if this is inappropriate... I don't think it is, but some folks
are sensitive to anything that looks like a sales pitch and rightfully so...
Most folks here have been watching as I learn about and design around
information I receive from the "experts" here and in two other forums this
is being posted to.

I've got my first real fruit from those efforts now. Sort of...

We are in the process of making and thus offering much heaver designs of our
multiple spindle heads... ER32+ spindles for 20mm (.787") or smaller tool
shanks. Maybe even for ER40 for 26mm (1.024"). I'm even playing with an
ER50 design but I'm not sure if I want to cross that bridge just yet... All
I've learned about these larger collets has come from usenet forums and web
sites I was sent to, etc.

So... the pseudo-sales pitch: If someone has an application for multiple
holes with a spacing that allows us to use ER32 or larger spindles and would
like a shot at sorta beta testing one of these new devices, I'm willing to
part with one at a greatly reduced price simply to get one in the field and
running under load, etc. By greatly reduced I mean same price as our
smaller heads which is probably 50-85% lower than what we will eventually
charge for these.

This all comes out of me having a very simple problem... We make the
devices. However, we don't do any heavy duty or production drilling
ourselves. We only sell the tools to do so. Thus, we can build 'em and
spin 'em and basically test 'em but nobody has ever run one of these new
ones drilling a bunch of real heavy holes under lots of thrust at RPM, etc.
I really don't feel like setting up a drilling station and paying an
employee to run tens of thousands of holes in my shop so...

Maybe you need to drill two or more "big" holes in a repeatable pattern but
couldn't afford a heavy enough multiple spindle head before? Let's talk and
see if we can make a deal... I'm only going to sell to one customer like
this and then wait for it to be field tested for a while before releasing
them in the wild to everyone else.

For those in the wood or crossover industries, I'm guessing that the largest
tooling you use is morse taper based or specialized. I can't accommodate
everything, but we can talk and see what can be done. Special spindles can
be made within reason and wood processes can go larger than the actual tool
shank sizes.

Give me a call. E-mail me direct. Reply here. Whatever works best for
you.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

Joe AutoDrill wrote:
Forgive me if this is inappropriate... I don't think it is, but some folks
are sensitive to anything that looks like a sales pitch and rightfully so...
Most folks here have been watching as I learn about and design around
information I receive from the "experts" here and in two other forums this
is being posted to.

I've got my first real fruit from those efforts now. Sort of...

We are in the process of making and thus offering much heaver designs of our
multiple spindle heads... ER32+ spindles for 20mm (.787") or smaller tool
shanks. Maybe even for ER40 for 26mm (1.024"). I'm even playing with an
ER50 design but I'm not sure if I want to cross that bridge just yet... All
I've learned about these larger collets has come from usenet forums and web
sites I was sent to, etc.

So... the pseudo-sales pitch: If someone has an application for multiple
holes with a spacing that allows us to use ER32 or larger spindles and would
like a shot at sorta beta testing one of these new devices, I'm willing to
part with one at a greatly reduced price simply to get one in the field and
running under load, etc. By greatly reduced I mean same price as our
smaller heads which is probably 50-85% lower than what we will eventually
charge for these.

This all comes out of me having a very simple problem... We make the
devices. However, we don't do any heavy duty or production drilling
ourselves. We only sell the tools to do so. Thus, we can build 'em and
spin 'em and basically test 'em but nobody has ever run one of these new
ones drilling a bunch of real heavy holes under lots of thrust at RPM, etc.
I really don't feel like setting up a drilling station and paying an
employee to run tens of thousands of holes in my shop so...

Maybe you need to drill two or more "big" holes in a repeatable pattern but
couldn't afford a heavy enough multiple spindle head before? Let's talk and
see if we can make a deal... I'm only going to sell to one customer like
this and then wait for it to be field tested for a while before releasing
them in the wild to everyone else.

For those in the wood or crossover industries, I'm guessing that the largest
tooling you use is morse taper based or specialized. I can't accommodate
everything, but we can talk and see what can be done. Special spindles can
be made within reason and wood processes can go larger than the actual tool
shank sizes.

Give me a call. E-mail me direct. Reply here. Whatever works best for
you.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R




Joe,

You might consider pitching this on the Practicalmachinist site. If
you are at all worried about stepping on toes, you could clear it with
the site owner, first. He posts there as Milacron.

There are a lot of pro's hanging out over there, and more exposure
cannot hurt.

Best of luck with the new product line!

Cheers
Trevor Jones

(CLIP ALL MY INFO)

Joe,

You might consider pitching this on the Practicalmachinist site. If you
are at all worried about stepping on toes, you could clear it with the
site owner, first. He posts there as Milacron.

There are a lot of pro's hanging out over there, and more exposure cannot
hurt.

Best of luck with the new product line!

Cheers
Trevor Jones

I'll check that out. I figured I'd share it within the "famiglia" first.


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

First, even though I know there is no way I can convince myself I need
a multispindle drilling machine, I do really like your idea of a sort
of machine tool beta testing. I'd like to see more manufacturers do
this sort of thing.
Second, reading your post just gave me an idea. Since you are tooling
up to build ER collet equipment, you might be interested to know there
is quite a market for ER spindle collet chucks for regular lathes,
such as the smaller machines like the Altas which can't use 5C
collets. Although you can buy these in many tool catalogs, it would
be an interesting thing to look at since you are already tooled up for
this particular operation. Sort of like the equipment that Little
Machine Shop sells, but with ER collet equipment specifically.
Just a wild idea
Michael

On Sep 27, 11:15 am, "Joe AutoDrill" wrote:

We are in the process of making and thus offering much heaver designs of our
multiple spindle heads... ER32+ spindles for 20mm (.787") or smaller tool
shanks. Maybe even for ER40 for 26mm (1.024"). I'm even playing with an
ER50 design but I'm not sure if I want to cross that bridge just yet... All
I've learned about these larger collets has come from usenet forums and web
sites I was sent to, etc.

"woodworker88" wrote in message
ups.com...
First, even though I know there is no way I can convince myself I need
a multispindle drilling machine, I do really like your idea of a sort
of machine tool beta testing. I'd like to see more manufacturers do
this sort of thing.

Thanks. So far, not a single flame which is what I worried most about...

Second, reading your post just gave me an idea. Since you are tooling
up to build ER collet equipment, you might be interested to know there
is quite a market for ER spindle collet chucks for regular lathes,
such as the smaller machines like the Altas which can't use 5C
collets. Although you can buy these in many tool catalogs, it would
be an interesting thing to look at since you are already tooled up for
this particular operation. Sort of like the equipment that Little
Machine Shop sells, but with ER collet equipment specifically.
Just a wild idea
Michael

I like wild ideas... They usually distill into good ones.

Can you give me an example of a specific product already on the market?
Someone's part #, etc?
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

According to Joe AutoDrill :

[ ... ]

I like wild ideas... They usually distill into good ones.

Can you give me an example of a specific product already on the market?
Someone's part #, etc?

Go to the MSC site and search for this string:

ETM collet chuck

and quite a few of the hits will be examples. It looks like the
illustrations are scrambled, because the one for MT-3 shank actually
shows what looks like 30-taper and 40-taper shanks instead.

I've seen a set (from an eBay auction) with a MT-3 shank, a full set of
collets, and the fancy wrench for opening and closing the collets in a
fitted wood case.

I've not been tempted for my lathe because it will handle 5C
collets with a lever style closer. But I *might* be tempted by a NTMB 40
taper for my Nichols mill, or NTMB 30 taper for my Bridgeport's
quick-change spindle. I've got some of the smaller ones which handle
the DA series collets.

And what I *don't* see anywhere are ER collet chucks with a
threaded back to fit on common lathe spindles directly. Perhaps a Morse
Taper for centering and a collar which matches the threaded spindle for
pulling it in without fitting a drawbar to the lathe.

I don't need it -- but others might. Let them speak here.

Good Luck,
DoN.


--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

And what I *don't* see anywhere are ER collet chucks with a
threaded back to fit on common lathe spindles directly. Perhaps a Morse
Taper for centering and a collar which matches the threaded spindle for
pulling it in without fitting a drawbar to the lathe.

I don't need it -- but others might. Let them speak here.

Good Luck,
DoN.

Been there done that, i settled on TG collet chucks and collets.
Bargians found on ebay allowed me to fit my logan lathe with a
TG-200 collet chuck which has a 2" capacity. The chuck started
life as a CAT50 taper and was ground down to fit the taper on
the logan. I also have a a flat back TG-100 collet chuck that
is handy, they do show up on occasion on ebay along with
collets.

Best Regards
Tom.

Yeah, us with our lowly Atlas machines can't take a 5C through the
headstock, and Bison 5C collet chuck has so much overhang you might as
well use a regular, properly adjusted 3-jaw chuck (not to offend
anybody who owns one of them, but they're not exactly what I'd call
convenient compared to an ER collet chuck)
One problem in particular is that most of the ETM style collet chucks
use a drawbar mount system, which means that you lose your thru-
spindle capability. This can be a real drag on anything other than
small work. I just noticed that Beall Tool came out with a system
that's threaded for several sizes of lathe spindle noses, but this is
a relatively new product. http://www.bealltool.com/products/tu...olletchuck.php
They're primarily designed for woodworking, so I'd be tempted to go
over one real well with a dial indicator before using it for any
precision work, but they use standard ER collets, and I'd bet they
make them to a reasonable TIR anyways, since it's easier. The other
thing that I'd really like to see, which I've never seen, is a system
that's designed to work really well with multiple arbors. Yeah, they
are "interchangeable", but I want to change them about as much as I'd
want to change my drill chuck arbor. I'd really like to be able to
buy one collet chuck which I could easily mate to a R8 arbor for use
in my Bridgeport, quickly swap for a 1 1/2"-8 threaded back for my
lathe, and back again.
One last application would be some sort of collet block/indexer that
is designed for ER collets. In tool catalogs I see all sorts of 5C
spin indexers, but it would be nice to be able to use a single set of
ER collets in every tool in the shop. Even better would be a collet
chuck that could be transplanted directly from the lathe to the
indexer, to maintain concentricity.
I think that you have the opportunity to start building tools that the
people here on RCM really need, as well as your multispindle drill
business (BTW, if you ever decide that you need to "dispose" of one of
your units, count me first in line :-) )
ww88

I don't need it -- but others might. Let them speak here.

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:37:27 -0000, woodworker88
wrote:

One last application would be some sort of collet block/indexer that
is designed for ER collets. In tool catalogs I see all sorts of 5C
spin indexers, but it would be nice to be able to use a single set of
ER collets in every tool in the shop. Even better would be a collet
chuck that could be transplanted directly from the lathe to the
indexer, to maintain concentricity.


Might not help you directly, but got to:-

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/

and search for Stevenson.

It should lead you to John Stevenson's modification to a 5C indexer to take
ER32 collets.



Mark Rand
RTFM

Hey, that's really useful. Thanks for pointing out that link.
Michael
On Sep 30, 3:14 am, Mark Rand wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:37:27 -0000, woodworker88
wrote:

It should lead you to John Stevenson's modification to a 5C indexer to take
ER32 collets.

Mark Rand
RTFM

On Sep 30, 12:37 am, woodworker88 wrote:
I don't need it -- but others might. Let them speak here.

And as one of my friends, an Atlas 618 owner reminded me, his machine
has a 1"-10 spindle, which isn't offered by Beall Tool. And they
weren't willing to make one on request...
Michael

When I got my ER collets I did it for my mill. Then I ordered a
holder for my lathe.

One set - two holders.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


woodworker88 wrote:
Yeah, us with our lowly Atlas machines can't take a 5C through the
headstock, and Bison 5C collet chuck has so much overhang you might as
well use a regular, properly adjusted 3-jaw chuck (not to offend
anybody who owns one of them, but they're not exactly what I'd call
convenient compared to an ER collet chuck)
One problem in particular is that most of the ETM style collet chucks
use a drawbar mount system, which means that you lose your thru-
spindle capability. This can be a real drag on anything other than
small work. I just noticed that Beall Tool came out with a system
that's threaded for several sizes of lathe spindle noses, but this is
a relatively new product. http://www.bealltool.com/products/tu...olletchuck.php
They're primarily designed for woodworking, so I'd be tempted to go
over one real well with a dial indicator before using it for any
precision work, but they use standard ER collets, and I'd bet they
make them to a reasonable TIR anyways, since it's easier. The other
thing that I'd really like to see, which I've never seen, is a system
that's designed to work really well with multiple arbors. Yeah, they
are "interchangeable", but I want to change them about as much as I'd
want to change my drill chuck arbor. I'd really like to be able to
buy one collet chuck which I could easily mate to a R8 arbor for use
in my Bridgeport, quickly swap for a 1 1/2"-8 threaded back for my
lathe, and back again.
One last application would be some sort of collet block/indexer that
is designed for ER collets. In tool catalogs I see all sorts of 5C
spin indexers, but it would be nice to be able to use a single set of
ER collets in every tool in the shop. Even better would be a collet
chuck that could be transplanted directly from the lathe to the
indexer, to maintain concentricity.
I think that you have the opportunity to start building tools that the
people here on RCM really need, as well as your multispindle drill
business (BTW, if you ever decide that you need to "dispose" of one of
your units, count me first in line :-) )
ww88

I don't need it -- but others might. Let them speak here.


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

And what I *don't* see anywhere are ER collet chucks with a
threaded back to fit on common lathe spindles directly. Perhaps a Morse
Taper for centering and a collar which matches the threaded spindle for
pulling it in without fitting a drawbar to the lathe.

I don't need it -- but others might. Let them speak here.

If someone needs something like that, I can make it... Probably.

Just spec the device as best as you can and I'll work up a rough drawing and
get a quote off to whomever wants one.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

"woodworker88" wrote in message
ups.com...
Yeah, us with our lowly Atlas machines can't take a 5C through the
headstock, and Bison 5C collet chuck has so much overhang you might as
well use a regular, properly adjusted 3-jaw chuck (not to offend
anybody who owns one of them, but they're not exactly what I'd call
convenient compared to an ER collet chuck)
One problem in particular is that most of the ETM style collet chucks
use a drawbar mount system, which means that you lose your thru-
spindle capability. This can be a real drag on anything other than
small work. I just noticed that Beall Tool came out with a system
that's threaded for several sizes of lathe spindle noses, but this is
a relatively new product.
http://www.bealltool.com/products/tu...olletchuck.php
They're primarily designed for woodworking, so I'd be tempted to go
over one real well with a dial indicator before using it for any
precision work, but they use standard ER collets, and I'd bet they
make them to a reasonable TIR anyways, since it's easier. The other
thing that I'd really like to see, which I've never seen, is a system
that's designed to work really well with multiple arbors. Yeah, they
are "interchangeable", but I want to change them about as much as I'd
want to change my drill chuck arbor. I'd really like to be able to
buy one collet chuck which I could easily mate to a R8 arbor for use
in my Bridgeport, quickly swap for a 1 1/2"-8 threaded back for my
lathe, and back again.
One last application would be some sort of collet block/indexer that
is designed for ER collets. In tool catalogs I see all sorts of 5C
spin indexers, but it would be nice to be able to use a single set of
ER collets in every tool in the shop. Even better would be a collet
chuck that could be transplanted directly from the lathe to the
indexer, to maintain concentricity.
I think that you have the opportunity to start building tools that the
people here on RCM really need, as well as your multispindle drill
business (BTW, if you ever decide that you need to "dispose" of one of
your units, count me first in line :-) )

Part of the challenge for us is that we really haven't done much outside the
box thinking as far as the ER-style collet chucks go... So any new device I
could come up with would be beta tested on the first few customers, etc.
I'm willing to look at any opportunity someone wants to try out. A no
obligation "beta test" quote is a phone call away... Ask for Joe Jr.

As for the free device that I'm disposing of... You wouldn't want the stuff
we give away for free... It's sometimes turned down by the guy next door
with the scrap bins.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

I may give you a call in a few days. Do you have access to Autodesk
(AutoCAD, Inventor) software if I work up a drawing?
ww88


On Oct 1, 5:35 am, "Joe AutoDrill" wrote:
"woodworker88" wrote in message

Part of the challenge for us is that we really haven't done much outside the
box thinking as far as the ER-style collet chucks go... So any new device I
could come up with would be beta tested on the first few customers, etc.
I'm willing to look at any opportunity someone wants to try out. A no
obligation "beta test" quote is a phone call away... Ask for Joe Jr.

As for the free device that I'm disposing of... You wouldn't want the stuff
we give away for free... It's sometimes turned down by the guy next door
with the scrap bins.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills:http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills:http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

"woodworker88" wrote in message
ups.com...
I may give you a call in a few days. Do you have access to Autodesk
(AutoCAD, Inventor) software if I work up a drawing?
ww88

AutoCAD... Yes. I think engineering also uses an older version of
SolidWorks, but 2D would be preferable for me and this type of project for
now.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

Joe AutoDrill wrote:

"woodworker88" wrote in message
ups.com...

First, even though I know there is no way I can convince myself I need
a multispindle drilling machine, I do really like your idea of a sort
of machine tool beta testing. I'd like to see more manufacturers do
this sort of thing.


Thanks. So far, not a single flame which is what I worried most about...


Second, reading your post just gave me an idea. Since you are tooling
up to build ER collet equipment, you might be interested to know there
is quite a market for ER spindle collet chucks for regular lathes,
such as the smaller machines like the Altas which can't use 5C
collets. Although you can buy these in many tool catalogs, it would
be an interesting thing to look at since you are already tooled up for
this particular operation. Sort of like the equipment that Little
Machine Shop sells, but with ER collet equipment specifically.
Just a wild idea
Michael


I like wild ideas... They usually distill into good ones.

Can you give me an example of a specific product already on the market?
Someone's part #, etc?


http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/C...ets_13 2.html

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=2532

http://www.warco-tools.com/productim...ments/P100.pdf

http://www.cartertools.com/beall.html

These are just a few of the ER collet, lathe chucks I found in a few
minutes searching.

Now, I dunno what the saturation point is for tooling like that, but
I'd have to say it would be tough to compete with the import stuff on
price, and I figure if there were enough guys out there willing to put
up there money for quality, the likes of Schaublin, would still be
selling a fair number of tools.

Not trying to be a wet blanket, but I dunno what features might be
offered that would make a new chuck into an outstanding reason to buy
it, rather than one of the others available.

Could, maybe, be a time filler, kinda project, though, to build just
the basic chuck body to fit the various common smaller lathes. Tough to
guess what the market potential is, though.

Cheers
Trevor Jones