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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Bridgeport milling machines.
Used a Bridgeport vetical mill for the first time in my metalworking
efforts at trade school. Brand new, very nice...cost $45K in Oz. DRO's to 5 microns.... Query - there were a few in the room, old one labeled "Adcock and Shipley" made in England. The new one had a big American flag sticker on it, nearly obscured the sticker on the motor that said "Made in Mexico"...couldn't see any stickers to say where the rest of it was made. Where? - out of idles curiosity, is it made? - I know from reading here they have iconic status to this group... Andrew VK3BFA. |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Bridgeport milling machines.
Andrew VK3BFA wrote:
Used a Bridgeport vetical mill for the first time in my metalworking efforts at trade school. Brand new, very nice...cost $45K in Oz. DRO's to 5 microns.... Query - there were a few in the room, old one labeled "Adcock and Shipley" made in England. The new one had a big American flag sticker on it, nearly obscured the sticker on the motor that said "Made in Mexico"...couldn't see any stickers to say where the rest of it was made. Where? - out of idles curiosity, is it made? - I know from reading here they have iconic status to this group... Andrew VK3BFA. bridgeport ct england and singapore |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Bridgeport milling machines.
Andrew VK3BFA wrote:
Used a Bridgeport vetical mill for the first time in my metalworking efforts at trade school. Brand new, very nice...cost $45K in Oz. DRO's to 5 microns.... 45K US? Ouch. Not worth it. Wes |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Bridgeport milling machines.
On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 06:55:04 -0700, Andrew VK3BFA
wrote: Used a Bridgeport vetical mill for the first time in my metalworking efforts at trade school. Brand new, very nice...cost $45K in Oz. DRO's to 5 microns.... Query - there were a few in the room, old one labeled "Adcock and Shipley" made in England. The new one had a big American flag sticker on it, nearly obscured the sticker on the motor that said "Made in Mexico"...couldn't see any stickers to say where the rest of it was made. Where? - out of idles curiosity, is it made? - I know from reading here they have iconic status to this group... Andrew VK3BFA. ========== While I am sure you didn't intend it, this is a first-class troll, as this is a sore spot in the US that is rapidly getting bigger [and sorer]. The basic problem is that there are fewer and fewer actually American companies, and with the world-wide race to the bottom, the components and generic/component parts are now sourced anywhere and everywhere, and the American public has again been "sold out" by their government in enforcement of national origin labeling. Mazak "screwed" the US Military on exactly this point, when they sold several large/special CNC machines as being made in the USA for [big] additional dollars under "Buy American" provisions of the National Defense Procurement laws. This scam was blown when an hourly employee noticed management personnel working on a machine, changing the name plates and dropped the dime. AFAIK no one went to jail, and I am not sure that Mazak had to give all the "Buy America" money back, let alone pay any fines. At one time [during and shortly after WWII] Bridgeport produced one of the finest turret milling machines in the world, with many attachments. Many tools and die shops were started with only a Bridgeport and Clausing [type] lathe. see http://www.answers.com/topic/bridgep...nc?cat=biz-fin The Bridgeport patents began to expire, the company was sold 1968 to Textron. Value analysis, excessively long lead times for new machine deliver (c. 24 months) and failure to reinvest in new product features and general arrogance, doomed the company when Asian and European models that were almost a good with immediate delivery began to flood the market. (Sounds a lot like Detroit.) More value analysis and out-sourcing quickly followed to maintain profit margins, and the foreign competition rapidly improved their products. (Again a lot like Detroit) Today, it is impossible to tell where the machines and components are manufactured, and IMNSHO, a better turret mill can be purchased from one of the lower cost producers, without paying for a faux "Made In America" product, with the profits going to an offshore tax haven.. Unka' George [George McDuffee] ============ Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814. |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Bridgeport milling machines.
On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:16:26 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote: the company was sold 1968 to Textron. ======= For more info on Textron click on http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...ow_article= 1 Just came across this after I posted first comment. Unka' George [George McDuffee] ============ Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814. |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Bridgeport milling machines.
On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:16:26 -0500, F.George wrote:
Today, it is impossible to tell where the machines and components are manufactured, and IMNSHO, a better turret mill can be purchased from one of the lower cost producers, without paying for a faux "Made In America" product, with the profits going to an offshore tax haven.. The way I heard it, you can buy parts all over the world, and as long as the final assembly is in the USA, you can say, "Assembled in USA". Cheers! Rich |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Bridgeport milling machines.
On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 00:13:27 GMT, Rich Grise
wrote: On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:16:26 -0500, F.George wrote: Today, it is impossible to tell where the machines and components are manufactured, and IMNSHO, a better turret mill can be purchased from one of the lower cost producers, without paying for a faux "Made In America" product, with the profits going to an offshore tax haven.. The way I heard it, you can buy parts all over the world, and as long as the final assembly is in the USA, you can say, "Assembled in USA". Cheers! Rich ======= And the "final assembly" may be the application of a "Made in USA" decal printed in China to the shipping container. Unka' George [George McDuffee] ============ Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814. |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Bridgeport milling machines.
On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 00:13:27 GMT, Rich Grise wrote:
On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:16:26 -0500, F.George wrote: Today, it is impossible to tell where the machines and components are manufactured, and IMNSHO, a better turret mill can be purchased from one of the lower cost producers, without paying for a faux "Made In America" product, with the profits going to an offshore tax haven.. The way I heard it, you can buy parts all over the world, and as long as the final assembly is in the USA, you can say, "Assembled in USA". Cheers! Rich As long as the sticker saying "Made in USA" was actually made there ................... Gerry :-)} London, Canada |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Bridgeport milling machines.
While I am sure you didn't intend it, this is a first-class
troll, as this is a sore spot in the US that is rapidly getting bigger [and sorer]. No, it wasnt a troll - was genuinely curious, so thank you for the references. And it is a very nice machine to use, quiet, precise - a few weird features, ie the "twist the handle to engage the X feed" was a good one. And putting a lock pin on the shaft brake seems a bit potentially disastrous. Oh, and the High/Low switch which is really the on/off switch and runs it in reverse in the low position....had a tutorial on it before operating which is SOP in the class room - the last irritation is due to the shape of the head, its a tad difficult to securely clamp on a magnetic base for a dial indicator when setting up the machine vise....but thats all part of metalworking, it needs to be done so it is. A light bulb moment for me was when I realised that 90% of machining is setting up...oh, and the high/low gear change lever is a finger biter, but got used to it real quick. Only mistake I made so far was not realizing the R8 collet holder had a locating groove in it - I backed off the top nut, wacked it with a soft face hammer to spring it, could not feel any rotary movement in the holder (my X2 Chinese mill is a plain MT3) so, thinking it was still locked in, I undid it two more turns and wacked it again. A passing instructor used somewhat colourful language in the process of informing me of my error.... I would love to own one, but I dont have the money, or the room, to set it up if I did. Learnt face milling on a large horizontal mill, learning vertical milling on this one - at present, doing "pocket milling" for a G-clamp to go with the V block I made on the horizontal mill. When their both finished, get to learn to drive the surface grinder to get a nice finish and to bring it in to some mind bogglingly tight tolerance... And as for offshore manufacturing - its a feature of the "world economy, free trade" etc etc - all the lovely Newspeak jargon. I don't remember being asked if I wanted it, but I must have been - our politicians keep on saying they have a "mandate" to do it...(Left, Right, both dance to the same tune. No difference - ) Andrew VK3BFA. |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Bridgeport milling machines.
Andrew VK3BFA wrote: While I am sure you didn't intend it, this is a first-class troll, as this is a sore spot in the US that is rapidly getting bigger [and sorer]. No, it wasnt a troll - was genuinely curious, so thank you for the references. And it is a very nice machine to use, quiet, precise - a few weird features, ie the "twist the handle to engage the X feed" was Twist the handle makes sense with power feed as otherwise under power the handle is driven and can trap your hand against the power feed body. I suspect this happened a few times before health and safety considerations demanded a safer handle. I fitted one when I added a power feed, my neighbour found it weird also as it seemed like the handle didn' work at first. a good one. And putting a lock pin on the shaft brake seems a bit potentially disastrous. Oh, and the High/Low switch which is really the on/off switch and runs it in reverse in the low position....had a tutorial on it before operating which is SOP in the class room - the last irritation is due to the shape of the head, its a tad difficult to securely clamp on a magnetic base for a dial indicator when setting up the machine vise....but thats all part of metalworking, it needs to be done so it is. A light bulb moment for me was when I realised that 90% of machining is setting up...oh, and the high/low gear change lever is a finger biter, but got used to it real quick. Never been bitten by my bridgeport high/low change. Only mistake I made so far was not realizing the R8 collet holder had a locating groove in it - I backed off the top nut, wacked it with a soft face hammer to spring it, could not feel any rotary movement in the holder (my X2 Chinese mill is a plain MT3) so, thinking it was still locked in, I undid it two more turns and wacked it again. A passing instructor used somewhat colourful language in the process of informing me of my error.... I would love to own one, but I dont have the money, or the room, to set it up if I did. Learnt face milling on a large horizontal mill, learning vertical milling on this one - at present, doing "pocket milling" for a G-clamp to go with the V block I made on the horizontal mill. When their both finished, get to learn to drive the surface grinder to get a nice finish and to bring it in to some mind bogglingly tight tolerance... And as for offshore manufacturing - its a feature of the "world economy, free trade" etc etc - all the lovely Newspeak jargon. I don't remember being asked if I wanted it, but I must have been - our politicians keep on saying they have a "mandate" to do it...(Left, Right, both dance to the same tune. No difference - ) I own one of those offshore Bridgeports, an Adcock and Shipley, made in the UK. I suspect it was just easier/cheaper to make on this side of the pond for the UK and European markets rather than ship them across the Atlantic. I live in the UK so I suspect most I come across are made here or were. Andrew VK3BFA. |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Bridgeport milling machines.
Gerald Miller wrote:
As long as the sticker saying "Made in USA" was actually made there Or in Canada |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Bridgeport milling machines.
Andrew VK3BFA wrote:
No, it wasnt a troll We know that, you don't do that. a few weird features, ie the "twist the handle to engage the X feed" was a good one. And putting a lock pin on the shaft brake seems a bit potentially disastrous. Oh, and the High/Low switch which is really the on/off switch and runs it in reverse in the low position....had a tutorial on it before operating which is SOP in the class room - the last irritation is due to the shape of the head, its a tad difficult to securely clamp on a magnetic base for a dial indicator when setting up the machine vise....but thats all part of metalworking Indicol if I didn't spell it right. Clamps around the spindle OD. http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/pr...categoryID=583 Take a picture of the BP if you can and post it. Drop box if you don't have web hosting. Don't understand the twist the handle X feed thing. A light bulb moment for me was when I realised that 90% of machining is setting up...oh, and the high/low gear change lever is a finger biter, but got used to it real quick. Heck those in motion pictures probably spend 99% setting up so count yourself lucky. Only mistake I made so far was not realizing the R8 collet holder had a locating groove in it - I backed off the top nut, wacked it with a soft face hammer to spring it, could not feel any rotary movement in the holder (my X2 Chinese mill is a plain MT3) so, thinking it was still locked in, I undid it two more turns and wacked it again. A passing instructor used somewhat colourful language in the process of informing me of my error.... The pin is missing from my bp. I've never had reason ro replace it. I wonder how many of use don't have pins in our BP's and 5C collet adaptors? I would love to own one, but I dont have the money, or the room, to set it up if I did. Time changes many things. Learnt face milling on a large horizontal mill, learning vertical milling on this one - at present, doing "pocket milling" for a G-clamp to go with the V block I made on the horizontal mill. When their both finished, get to learn to drive the surface grinder to get a nice finish and to bring it in to some mind bogglingly tight tolerance... Glad you are having fun. I bought a bunch of woodworking stuff and found I'm so much happier whittling metal into what I want. One of these days I'll have a surface grinder. And as for offshore manufacturing - its a feature of the "world economy, free trade" etc etc - all the lovely Newspeak jargon. I don't remember being asked if I wanted it, but I must have been - our politicians keep on saying they have a "mandate" to do it...(Left, Right, both dance to the same tune. No difference - ) There isn't anything wrong with free trade as long as it is fair. Not wanting to start an OT subthread but if the trading partners do not have compatable worker safety and enviromental schemes then it isn't fair trade. Andrew VK3BFA. Wes KC8SPR |
#13
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Bridgeport milling machines.
"David Billington" wrote in message I own one of those offshore Bridgeports, an Adcock and Shipley, made in the UK. I suspect it was just easier/cheaper to make on this side of the pond for the UK and European markets rather than ship them across the Atlantic. I live in the UK so I suspect most I come across are made here or were. A fair few of the Adcock & Shipley made machines found there way down here to Oz as well, as up until the early '70's or so fairly generous tax concessions were offered when buying from the "Mother Country". That's largely the reason why so much of our imported machinery and automotive stuff came from England or Canada. -- Regards, Noddy. |
#14
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Bridgeport milling machines.
On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 17:51:09 +1000, "Noddy"
wrote: "David Billington" wrote in message I own one of those offshore Bridgeports, an Adcock and Shipley, made in the UK. I suspect it was just easier/cheaper to make on this side of the pond for the UK and European markets rather than ship them across the Atlantic. I live in the UK so I suspect most I come across are made here or were. A fair few of the Adcock & Shipley made machines found there way down here to Oz as well, as up until the early '70's or so fairly generous tax concessions were offered when buying from the "Mother Country". That's largely the reason why so much of our imported machinery and automotive stuff came from England or Canada. Probably for the Commonwealth as a whole rather than just the UK and Canada. Does that mean that you have Beaver VBRP mills floating around? They seem to be a bit more solid than Bridgeports. Mark Rand RTFM |
#15
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Bridgeport milling machines.
"Mark Rand" wrote in message news Probably for the Commonwealth as a whole rather than just the UK and Canada. I think so, but very little of any real worth came from anywhere else but England or Canada as far as the Commonwealth was concerned, and it was mostly machinery & tools from England cars & automotive equipment from Canada as a rule. Does that mean that you have Beaver VBRP mills floating around? They seem to be a bit more solid than Bridgeports. Possibly, but I've not seen one personally. Bridgeports were a rare enough sight down here as it was, as just about anything imported was hideously expensive even if it did come from a Commonwealth country. It was far cheaper to make stuff here that was a licenced (or not) copy, such as the Hercus lathe which was a direct copy of the Southbend and was made here up until the mid '80's I think, and other stuff like locally made copies of old milling machines. I had a locally made copy of a Cincinnati Number 2 universal mill that to the best of my knowledge was made in Australia either just before or during WWII, and the only difference seemed to be that the word "Cincinnati" wasn't cast into the side of the overarm support. Asian machine tools (Korean initially, and later Chinese) started flooding the market here in the mid '80's, and these days have it all to themselves to the point where it's virtually impossible to buy anything else. -- Regards, Noddy. |
#16
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Bridgeport milling machines.
"Noddy" wrote in message ... "David Billington" wrote in message I own one of those offshore Bridgeports, an Adcock and Shipley, made in the UK. I suspect it was just easier/cheaper to make on this side of the pond for the UK and European markets rather than ship them across the Atlantic. I live in the UK so I suspect most I come across are made here or were. A fair few of the Adcock & Shipley made machines found there way down here to Oz as well, as up until the early '70's or so fairly generous tax concessions were offered when buying from the "Mother Country". That's largely the reason why so much of our imported machinery and automotive stuff came from England or Canada. -- Regards, Noddy. Initially Adcock & Shipley made Bridgeports under licence, but after not very long Bridgeport bought Adcock&Shipley and ran it as a subdivision. AWEM |
#17
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Bridgeport milling machines.
"Andrew Mawson" wrote in message Initially Adcock & Shipley made Bridgeports under licence, but after not very long Bridgeport bought Adcock&Shipley and ran it as a subdivision. Any idea when that was? I have an Adcock & Shipley V ram with a J head & slotter that was made in July 1964, and it looks more "American Bridgeport" than some of the other AS machines I've seen before. -- Regards, Noddy. |
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