Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old August 23rd 07, 02:55 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Bridgeport milling machines.

Used a Bridgeport vetical mill for the first time in my metalworking
efforts at trade school. Brand new, very nice...cost $45K in Oz.
DRO's to 5 microns....

Query - there were a few in the room, old one labeled "Adcock and
Shipley" made in England. The new one had a big American flag sticker
on it, nearly obscured the sticker on the motor that said "Made in
Mexico"...couldn't see any stickers to say where the rest of it was
made.

Where? - out of idles curiosity, is it made? - I know from reading
here they have iconic status to this group...

Andrew VK3BFA.


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Old August 23rd 07, 07:35 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Bridgeport milling machines.

Andrew VK3BFA wrote:
Used a Bridgeport vetical mill for the first time in my metalworking
efforts at trade school. Brand new, very nice...cost $45K in Oz.
DRO's to 5 microns....

Query - there were a few in the room, old one labeled "Adcock and
Shipley" made in England. The new one had a big American flag sticker
on it, nearly obscured the sticker on the motor that said "Made in
Mexico"...couldn't see any stickers to say where the rest of it was
made.

Where? - out of idles curiosity, is it made? - I know from reading
here they have iconic status to this group...

Andrew VK3BFA.


bridgeport ct

england and

singapore
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Old August 23rd 07, 08:09 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Bridgeport milling machines.

Andrew VK3BFA wrote:

Used a Bridgeport vetical mill for the first time in my metalworking
efforts at trade school. Brand new, very nice...cost $45K in Oz.
DRO's to 5 microns....


45K US? Ouch. Not worth it.

Wes
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Old August 23rd 07, 10:16 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Bridgeport milling machines.

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 06:55:04 -0700, Andrew VK3BFA
wrote:

Used a Bridgeport vetical mill for the first time in my metalworking
efforts at trade school. Brand new, very nice...cost $45K in Oz.
DRO's to 5 microns....

Query - there were a few in the room, old one labeled "Adcock and
Shipley" made in England. The new one had a big American flag sticker
on it, nearly obscured the sticker on the motor that said "Made in
Mexico"...couldn't see any stickers to say where the rest of it was
made.

Where? - out of idles curiosity, is it made? - I know from reading
here they have iconic status to this group...

Andrew VK3BFA.

==========
While I am sure you didn't intend it, this is a first-class
troll, as this is a sore spot in the US that is rapidly getting
bigger [and sorer].

The basic problem is that there are fewer and fewer actually
American companies, and with the world-wide race to the bottom,
the components and generic/component parts are now sourced
anywhere and everywhere, and the American public has again been
"sold out" by their government in enforcement of national origin
labeling.

Mazak "screwed" the US Military on exactly this point, when they
sold several large/special CNC machines as being made in the USA
for [big] additional dollars under "Buy American" provisions of
the National Defense Procurement laws. This scam was blown when
an hourly employee noticed management personnel working on a
machine, changing the name plates and dropped the dime. AFAIK no
one went to jail, and I am not sure that Mazak had to give all
the "Buy America" money back, let alone pay any fines.

At one time [during and shortly after WWII] Bridgeport produced
one of the finest turret milling machines in the world, with many
attachments. Many tools and die shops were started with only a
Bridgeport and Clausing [type] lathe.

see
http://www.answers.com/topic/bridgep...nc?cat=biz-fin

The Bridgeport patents began to expire, the company was sold
1968 to Textron.

Value analysis, excessively long lead times for new machine
deliver (c. 24 months) and failure to reinvest in new product
features and general arrogance, doomed the company when Asian and
European models that were almost a good with immediate delivery
began to flood the market. (Sounds a lot like Detroit.)

More value analysis and out-sourcing quickly followed to maintain
profit margins, and the foreign competition rapidly improved
their products. (Again a lot like Detroit)

Today, it is impossible to tell where the machines and components
are manufactured, and IMNSHO, a better turret mill can be
purchased from one of the lower cost producers, without paying
for a faux "Made In America" product, with the profits going to
an offshore tax haven..


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.
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Old August 23rd 07, 10:34 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Bridgeport milling machines.

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:16:26 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

the company was sold
1968 to Textron.

=======
For more info on Textron click on
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...ow_article= 1
Just came across this after I posted first comment.

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.


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Old August 24th 07, 01:13 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 426
Default Bridgeport milling machines.

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:16:26 -0500, F.George wrote:

Today, it is impossible to tell where the machines and components
are manufactured, and IMNSHO, a better turret mill can be
purchased from one of the lower cost producers, without paying
for a faux "Made In America" product, with the profits going to
an offshore tax haven..


The way I heard it, you can buy parts all over the world, and as
long as the final assembly is in the USA, you can say, "Assembled
in USA".

Cheers!
Rich

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Old August 24th 07, 02:18 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Bridgeport milling machines.

On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 00:13:27 GMT, Rich Grise
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:16:26 -0500, F.George wrote:

Today, it is impossible to tell where the machines and components
are manufactured, and IMNSHO, a better turret mill can be
purchased from one of the lower cost producers, without paying
for a faux "Made In America" product, with the profits going to
an offshore tax haven..


The way I heard it, you can buy parts all over the world, and as
long as the final assembly is in the USA, you can say, "Assembled
in USA".

Cheers!
Rich

=======
And the "final assembly" may be the application of a "Made in
USA" decal printed in China to the shipping container.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.
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Old August 24th 07, 02:51 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 1,224
Default Bridgeport milling machines.

On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 00:13:27 GMT, Rich Grise wrote:

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:16:26 -0500, F.George wrote:

Today, it is impossible to tell where the machines and components
are manufactured, and IMNSHO, a better turret mill can be
purchased from one of the lower cost producers, without paying
for a faux "Made In America" product, with the profits going to
an offshore tax haven..


The way I heard it, you can buy parts all over the world, and as
long as the final assembly is in the USA, you can say, "Assembled
in USA".

Cheers!
Rich

As long as the sticker saying "Made in USA" was actually made there
...................
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
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Old August 24th 07, 02:32 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 42
Default Bridgeport milling machines.

While I am sure you didn't intend it, this is a first-class
troll, as this is a sore spot in the US that is rapidly getting
bigger [and sorer].


No, it wasnt a troll - was genuinely curious, so thank you for the
references. And it is a very nice machine to use, quiet, precise - a
few weird features, ie the "twist the handle to engage the X feed" was
a good one. And putting a lock pin on the shaft brake seems a bit
potentially disastrous. Oh, and the High/Low switch which is really
the on/off switch and runs it in reverse in the low position....had a
tutorial on it before operating which is SOP in the class room - the
last irritation is due to the shape of the head, its a tad difficult
to securely clamp on a magnetic base for a dial indicator when setting
up the machine vise....but thats all part of metalworking, it needs to
be done so it is. A light bulb moment for me was when I realised that
90% of machining is setting up...oh, and the high/low gear change
lever is a finger biter, but got used to it real quick.

Only mistake I made so far was not realizing the R8 collet holder had
a locating groove in it - I backed off the top nut, wacked it with a
soft face hammer to spring it, could not feel any rotary movement in
the holder (my X2 Chinese mill is a plain MT3) so, thinking it was
still locked in, I undid it two more turns and wacked it again. A
passing instructor used somewhat colourful language in the process of
informing me of my error....

I would love to own one, but I dont have the money, or the room, to
set it up if I did.

Learnt face milling on a large horizontal mill, learning vertical
milling on this one - at present, doing "pocket milling" for a G-clamp
to go with the V block I made on the horizontal mill. When their both
finished, get to learn to drive the surface grinder to get a nice
finish and to bring it in to some mind bogglingly tight tolerance...

And as for offshore manufacturing - its a feature of the "world
economy, free trade" etc etc - all the lovely Newspeak jargon. I don't
remember being asked if I wanted it, but I must have been - our
politicians keep on saying they have a "mandate" to do it...(Left,
Right, both dance to the same tune. No difference - )

Andrew VK3BFA.

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Old August 24th 07, 08:38 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 857
Default Bridgeport milling machines.



Andrew VK3BFA wrote:

While I am sure you didn't intend it, this is a first-class
troll, as this is a sore spot in the US that is rapidly getting
bigger [and sorer].


No, it wasnt a troll - was genuinely curious, so thank you for the
references. And it is a very nice machine to use, quiet, precise - a
few weird features, ie the "twist the handle to engage the X feed" was

Twist the handle makes sense with power feed as otherwise under power
the handle is driven and can trap your hand against the power feed body.
I suspect this happened a few times before health and safety
considerations demanded a safer handle. I fitted one when I added a
power feed, my neighbour found it weird also as it seemed like the
handle didn' work at first.


a good one. And putting a lock pin on the shaft brake seems a bit
potentially disastrous. Oh, and the High/Low switch which is really
the on/off switch and runs it in reverse in the low position....had a
tutorial on it before operating which is SOP in the class room - the
last irritation is due to the shape of the head, its a tad difficult
to securely clamp on a magnetic base for a dial indicator when setting
up the machine vise....but thats all part of metalworking, it needs to
be done so it is. A light bulb moment for me was when I realised that
90% of machining is setting up...oh, and the high/low gear change
lever is a finger biter, but got used to it real quick.

Never been bitten by my bridgeport high/low change.



Only mistake I made so far was not realizing the R8 collet holder had
a locating groove in it - I backed off the top nut, wacked it with a
soft face hammer to spring it, could not feel any rotary movement in
the holder (my X2 Chinese mill is a plain MT3) so, thinking it was
still locked in, I undid it two more turns and wacked it again. A
passing instructor used somewhat colourful language in the process of
informing me of my error....

I would love to own one, but I dont have the money, or the room, to
set it up if I did.

Learnt face milling on a large horizontal mill, learning vertical
milling on this one - at present, doing "pocket milling" for a G-clamp
to go with the V block I made on the horizontal mill. When their both
finished, get to learn to drive the surface grinder to get a nice
finish and to bring it in to some mind bogglingly tight tolerance...

And as for offshore manufacturing - its a feature of the "world
economy, free trade" etc etc - all the lovely Newspeak jargon. I don't
remember being asked if I wanted it, but I must have been - our
politicians keep on saying they have a "mandate" to do it...(Left,
Right, both dance to the same tune. No difference - )

I own one of those offshore Bridgeports, an Adcock and Shipley, made in
the UK. I suspect it was just easier/cheaper to make on this side of the
pond for the UK and European markets rather than ship them across the
Atlantic. I live in the UK so I suspect most I come across are made here
or were.



Andrew VK3BFA.




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