OSHA showed up at work the other day.
Oh joy, oh joy, another reason to get the boss paranoid.
After the grand tour and filling out reams of papers and causing the boss to
look sadder than Droopy the cartoon dog, the bottom line was that we have to
change out all the air lines (explosive hazard) and get trained on how to
put on safety glasses and how to insert earplugs into our ears. In addition,
we have to put up "exit" signs.

This brought up a few questions in my mind:
1. If I don't know how to put my glasses on, how are they going to train me?
They can't give me written instructions because I can't read (blind or
visually impaired; take your pick) without glasses. They can't give me
verbal instructions because I obviously don't know how to wear earplugs and
after 12 years of working there I must be deaf (hearing impaired for the
politically correct crowd) .
2. How are they going to tell me how to put my earplugs in if I can't hear?
3. What good are the EXIT signs if I can't read them because I don't know
how to put my glasses on?
4. How the hell have I been managing to get out of the building all these
years without a sign to tell me.
5. How about an ENTRANCE sign? If I don't know how to get out of the
building without a sign then I sure as hell wouldn't know how to get in.

On a previous visit, OSHA was pleased with all the signs around the shop
spaces telling the uninformed that they should wear eye protection. However
(there are always "howevers" when it comes to beaurocrats) they thought we
might be confused when it came time to measure a part in the comparator
(which is surrounded by blackout curtains). So in their infinite wisdom,
they decided that we needed a sign to tell us that eye protection was NOT
needed when using the comparator.
This brought up a quandary for the blind as a bat crowd like me who need
glasses to see. Am I required to take my glasses off to use the comparator?
Or is it optional?

My boss did not exhibit a sense of humor when I asked him these questions.

Those Minds

"Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you"

In article , Those Minds says...

My boss did not exhibit a sense of humor when I asked him these questions.

Odd, they *never* do. Indeed I have found that repeated questionings
like that can lead to a rapid exit from the employement!

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Those Minds" wrote:

OSHA showed up at work the other day.
Oh joy, oh joy, another reason to get the boss paranoid.
After the grand tour and filling out reams of papers and causing the boss to
look sadder than Droopy the cartoon dog, the bottom line was that we have to
change out all the air lines (explosive hazard) and get trained on how to
put on safety glasses and how to insert earplugs into our ears. In addition,
we have to put up "exit" signs.

This brought up a few questions in my mind:
1. If I don't know how to put my glasses on, how are they going to train me?
They can't give me written instructions because I can't read (blind or
visually impaired; take your pick) without glasses. They can't give me
verbal instructions because I obviously don't know how to wear earplugs and
after 12 years of working there I must be deaf (hearing impaired for the
politically correct crowd) .
2. How are they going to tell me how to put my earplugs in if I can't hear?
3. What good are the EXIT signs if I can't read them because I don't know
how to put my glasses on?
4. How the hell have I been managing to get out of the building all these
years without a sign to tell me.
5. How about an ENTRANCE sign? If I don't know how to get out of the
building without a sign then I sure as hell wouldn't know how to get in.

On a previous visit, OSHA was pleased with all the signs around the shop
spaces telling the uninformed that they should wear eye protection. However
(there are always "howevers" when it comes to beaurocrats) they thought we
might be confused when it came time to measure a part in the comparator
(which is surrounded by blackout curtains). So in their infinite wisdom,
they decided that we needed a sign to tell us that eye protection was NOT
needed when using the comparator.
This brought up a quandary for the blind as a bat crowd like me who need
glasses to see. Am I required to take my glasses off to use the comparator?
Or is it optional?

My boss did not exhibit a sense of humor when I asked him these questions.

Those Minds

"Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you"

So did they issue any fines?

It seems that OSHA has become quite profitable around here. A typical
fine is $7,500.00. And they always find something that is deserving of
a fine.

He said "probably" $300 per violation

"George" wrote in message
...
So did they issue any fines?

It seems that OSHA has become quite profitable around here. A typical
fine is $7,500.00. And they always find something that is deserving of
a fine.

Those Minds wrote:
OSHA showed up at work the other day.
snip
look sadder than Droopy the cartoon dog, the bottom line was that we have to
change out all the air lines (explosive hazard) and get trained on how to

Are these PVC?

Thankfully, he understands my sense of humor and hasn't held it against me.
I know if I worked for me I would have fired me a long time ago

Those Minds
"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Those Minds says...

My boss did not exhibit a sense of humor when I asked him these
questions.

Odd, they *never* do. Indeed I have found that repeated questionings
like that can lead to a rapid exit from the employement!

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Although I completely agree that OSHA is generally a bit overbearing, the
sad truth is that if an accident were to occur and the cause be found to be
one of these items that OSHA advised to clean up, guess who would lose their
ass in the resulting lawsuit.

My office has joined in a voluntary program from OSHA called STAR where we
ask OSHA to come in and give us suggestions on what needs fixing and they do
so with the agreement that they can't impose fines or penalties. That way,
we get to claim OSHA compliance and we don't have the risk of racking up big
fines from a surprise inspection visit.

Robert

"Those Minds" wrote in message
...
OSHA showed up at work the other day.
Oh joy, oh joy, another reason to get the boss paranoid.
After the grand tour and filling out reams of papers and causing the boss
to
look sadder than Droopy the cartoon dog, the bottom line was that we have
to
change out all the air lines (explosive hazard) and get trained on how to
put on safety glasses and how to insert earplugs into our ears. In
addition,
we have to put up "exit" signs.

This brought up a few questions in my mind:
1. If I don't know how to put my glasses on, how are they going to train
me?
They can't give me written instructions because I can't read (blind or
visually impaired; take your pick) without glasses. They can't give me
verbal instructions because I obviously don't know how to wear earplugs
and
after 12 years of working there I must be deaf (hearing impaired for the
politically correct crowd) .
2. How are they going to tell me how to put my earplugs in if I can't
hear?
3. What good are the EXIT signs if I can't read them because I don't know
how to put my glasses on?
4. How the hell have I been managing to get out of the building all these
years without a sign to tell me.
5. How about an ENTRANCE sign? If I don't know how to get out of the
building without a sign then I sure as hell wouldn't know how to get in.

On a previous visit, OSHA was pleased with all the signs around the shop
spaces telling the uninformed that they should wear eye protection.
However
(there are always "howevers" when it comes to beaurocrats) they thought we
might be confused when it came time to measure a part in the comparator
(which is surrounded by blackout curtains). So in their infinite wisdom,
they decided that we needed a sign to tell us that eye protection was NOT
needed when using the comparator.
This brought up a quandary for the blind as a bat crowd like me who need
glasses to see. Am I required to take my glasses off to use the
comparator?
Or is it optional?

My boss did not exhibit a sense of humor when I asked him these questions.

Those Minds

"Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you"

"Those Minds" wrote in message
...
Thankfully, he understands my sense of humor and hasn't held it against
me.
I know if I worked for me I would have fired me a long time ago

Those Minds

Chuckle!

That's exactly what I told the guy that fired me from the last job I held,
about two weeks before I was going to quit. My machines were in but not yet
set up to operate. I was starting my humble shop, from which I had every
intention of making my living (which I did). The sight of his jaw
glancing off the floor when I handed him my business card was worth it all!

Harold

Yup, they are PVC.
We've had a few ruptures in the past and the owners knew that the PVC was
"illegal", but kept using the excuse that the new stuff was too expensive
and would fix it later. No excuses for that and should get whatever fine is
necessary IMHO.

Those Minds
"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Those Minds wrote:
OSHA showed up at work the other day.
snip
look sadder than Droopy the cartoon dog, the bottom line was that we
have to
change out all the air lines (explosive hazard) and get trained on how
to

Are these PVC?

I completely agree that OSHA has its place int the world, but sometimes they
do not allow for common sense some times. I like to poke fun at gub'ment
beaurocracies and their habit of looking for reasons to exist.
I have noticed though that once a Gub'nent agency finds out you exist, they
never want to go away.
Where I work, OSHA never visited until a disgruntled ex employee blew the
whistle about using diesel instead of honing oil in the hone (not true).
We have been visited about six times since. To their credit, the fines have
been minimal and we have tried to keep up on the regs.
On the flip side, my spousal unit works at a place that OSHA has never
visited, and their safety program is non-existant. Don't get me wrong here,
they are not an unsafe place to work, but they do not do the paprework
functions and don't do the safety committee meetings etc.

Those Minds

"Siggy" wrote in message
. ..
Although I completely agree that OSHA is generally a bit overbearing, the
sad truth is that if an accident were to occur and the cause be found to
be
one of these items that OSHA advised to clean up, guess who would lose
their
ass in the resulting lawsuit.

My office has joined in a voluntary program from OSHA called STAR where we
ask OSHA to come in and give us suggestions on what needs fixing and they
do
so with the agreement that they can't impose fines or penalties. That
way,
we get to claim OSHA compliance and we don't have the risk of racking up
big
fines from a surprise inspection visit.

Robert

"Those Minds" wrote in message
...
OSHA showed up at work the other day.
Oh joy, oh joy, another reason to get the boss paranoid.
After the grand tour and filling out reams of papers and causing the
boss
to
look sadder than Droopy the cartoon dog, the bottom line was that we
have
to
change out all the air lines (explosive hazard) and get trained on how
to
put on safety glasses and how to insert earplugs into our ears. In
addition,
we have to put up "exit" signs.

This brought up a few questions in my mind:
1. If I don't know how to put my glasses on, how are they going to train
me?
They can't give me written instructions because I can't read (blind or
visually impaired; take your pick) without glasses. They can't give me
verbal instructions because I obviously don't know how to wear earplugs
and
after 12 years of working there I must be deaf (hearing impaired for the
politically correct crowd) .
2. How are they going to tell me how to put my earplugs in if I can't
hear?
3. What good are the EXIT signs if I can't read them because I don't
know
how to put my glasses on?
4. How the hell have I been managing to get out of the building all
these
years without a sign to tell me.
5. How about an ENTRANCE sign? If I don't know how to get out of the
building without a sign then I sure as hell wouldn't know how to get in.

On a previous visit, OSHA was pleased with all the signs around the shop
spaces telling the uninformed that they should wear eye protection.
However
(there are always "howevers" when it comes to beaurocrats) they thought
we
might be confused when it came time to measure a part in the comparator
(which is surrounded by blackout curtains). So in their infinite wisdom,
they decided that we needed a sign to tell us that eye protection was
NOT
needed when using the comparator.
This brought up a quandary for the blind as a bat crowd like me who need
glasses to see. Am I required to take my glasses off to use the
comparator?
Or is it optional?

My boss did not exhibit a sense of humor when I asked him these
questions.

Those Minds

"Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you"

"Those Minds" wrote in message
...
OSHA showed up at work the other day.
Oh joy, oh joy, another reason to get the boss paranoid.
After the grand tour and filling out reams of papers and causing the boss
to
look sadder than Droopy the cartoon dog, the bottom line was that we have
to
change out all the air lines (explosive hazard) and get trained on how to
put on safety glasses and how to insert earplugs into our ears. In
addition,
we have to put up "exit" signs.

About 4 months after the new office space opened up, the men's/women's signs
were replaced. The new ones had brail so one could tell it was men's and
not women's. I kept thinking to myself, what sort of moron is going to lead
a blind person through this maze of cubicals and not tell them the men's is
on the right?

Joel. phx

Then there's the brail on the drive up ATMs, but we won't go there....

"Those Minds" wrote in
:

OSHA showed up at work the other day.
Oh joy, oh joy, another reason to get the boss paranoid.
After the grand tour and filling out reams of papers and causing the
boss to look sadder than Droopy the cartoon dog, the bottom line was
that we have to change out all the air lines (explosive hazard) and
get trained on how to put on safety glasses and how to insert earplugs
into our ears. In addition, we have to put up "exit" signs.

If the air lines are PVC, I agree with OSHA. Plastic can become brittle
in the presence of certian oils and other chemicals. You are possibly
looking at hundreds of little shards of very sharp plastic being shot out
much like a anti-personnel round should the line rupture.



This brought up a few questions in my mind:
1. If I don't know how to put my glasses on, how are they going to
train me? They can't give me written instructions because I can't read
(blind or visually impaired; take your pick) without glasses. They
can't give me verbal instructions because I obviously don't know how
to wear earplugs and after 12 years of working there I must be deaf
(hearing impaired for the politically correct crowd) .

I realize the fun you are poking here, but honestly, you would be
suprised at the number of folks who don't understand proper eye
protection. This includes side shields. I've had eye damage from chips
before, not fun....at all....I work with a fella who lost an eye from
improperly wearing his safety glasses.
Unfortunately, I've seen several people hurt in an industrial
environment, as probably many people here have. Fortunately, i've kept
all my important body parts out of danger, only minor accidents, but some
people aren't so lucky.
*MOST* of the time, the employee was doing something unsafe at the time
of the accident (operator disabled safety device, bypassed safety device,
climbing without a ladder, reaching into moving machinery, etc)
There have been instances where equipment failed, causing injury, but
those are very rare compared to the previous reason. It can not only cost
you some body part...it can cost you your life, I've see one of those in
my lifetime, and I hope I never see another. (Operator disabled one
safety device and bypassed another - it cost him his life.)



2. How are they going to tell me how to put my earplugs in if I can't
hear? 3. What good are the EXIT signs if I can't read them because I
don't know how to put my glasses on?
4. How the hell have I been managing to get out of the building all
these years without a sign to tell me.

Those are lighted, battery backup emergency lights. Should the power
fail, a fire where smoke is thick, or other emergency arise, those lights
stay on.







--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

"Those Minds" wrote in message
...
OSHA showed up at work the other day.
Oh joy, oh joy, another reason to get the boss paranoid.
After the grand tour and filling out reams of papers and causing the
boss
to
look sadder than Droopy the cartoon dog, the bottom line was that we
have
to
change out all the air lines (explosive hazard) and get trained on how
to
put on safety glasses and how to insert earplugs into our ears. In
addition,
we have to put up "exit" signs.

This brought up a few questions in my mind:
1. If I don't know how to put my glasses on, how are they going to
train
me?
They can't give me written instructions because I can't read (blind or
visually impaired; take your pick) without glasses. They can't give me
verbal instructions because I obviously don't know how to wear
earplugs
and
after 12 years of working there I must be deaf (hearing impaired for
the
politically correct crowd) .
2. How are they going to tell me how to put my earplugs in if I can't
hear?
3. What good are the EXIT signs if I can't read them because I don't
know
how to put my glasses on?
4. How the hell have I been managing to get out of the building all
these
years without a sign to tell me.
5. How about an ENTRANCE sign? If I don't know how to get out of the
building without a sign then I sure as hell wouldn't know how to get
in.

On a previous visit, OSHA was pleased with all the signs around the
shop
spaces telling the uninformed that they should wear eye protection.
However
(there are always "howevers" when it comes to beaurocrats) they
thought
we
might be confused when it came time to measure a part in the
comparator
(which is surrounded by blackout curtains). So in their infinite
wisdom,
they decided that we needed a sign to tell us that eye protection was
NOT
needed when using the comparator.
This brought up a quandary for the blind as a bat crowd like me who
need
glasses to see. Am I required to take my glasses off to use the
comparator?
Or is it optional?

My boss did not exhibit a sense of humor when I asked him these
questions.

Those Minds

"Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you"

Usually, OSHA does not just "show up". There has to be a complaint filed by
a current employee, and that means not from one that was just fired, but one
that still works there. OR, there has to have been an accident with injury,
or an "imminent threat to safety or health". Otherwise, the employer can
refuse to allow the inspectors in. They can't just come in on fishing
trips. If refused, they can usually get in later, and now have put a big
red X on that file meaning "pay close attention to this idiot in the future
and cite him for EVERYTHING."

So, the company had to have a recent accident, or a current employee filed a
report. All in all, it seems reasonable to me. There were substandard
lines that could have exploded; hence ear protection. The exploding lines
could have sent out fragments; hence eye protection. Maybe the inspectors
thought that if the employees couldn't recognize PVC from acceptable air
lines, they needed assistance in other areas, too. Cheaping out on PVC air
lines is about as cheap as you can get.

Steve

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:_jypc.28996$5a.9520@okepread03...

Usually, OSHA does not just "show up". There has to be a complaint filed
by
a current employee, and that means not from one that was just fired, but
one
that still works there. OR, there has to have been an accident with
injury,
or an "imminent threat to safety or health". Otherwise, the employer can
refuse to allow the inspectors in. They can't just come in on fishing
trips. If refused, they can usually get in later, and now have put a big
red X on that file meaning "pay close attention to this idiot in the
future
and cite him for EVERYTHING."

So, the company had to have a recent accident, or a current employee filed
a
report. All in all, it seems reasonable to me. There were substandard
lines that could have exploded; hence ear protection. The exploding lines
could have sent out fragments; hence eye protection. Maybe the inspectors
thought that if the employees couldn't recognize PVC from acceptable air
lines, they needed assistance in other areas, too. Cheaping out on PVC
air
lines is about as cheap as you can get.

Steve

No recent accidents.
OSHA has been a regular visitor since we had a disgruntled employee who was
fired and filed a bogus complaint about ten years ago. Management is more
than willing to take suggestions from OSHA to make a safe environment.
Don't get wrong here, I was just poking some fun . I take safety
seriously,as does about everyone else I work with. Doubtful if I would work
in a recklesly hazardous environment. Our shop is a very safe working
environment. As with all places there are things that are not up to snuff.

My point was to show what I thought was humorous in that they feel the need
to show a person who wears glasses how to put them on. As a matter of fact
The whole shop is good at wearing proper personal protective equipment.

Those Minds

And just what do you think they would have said about copper air lines? Let
the flames commence!!! I'll never agree to anything other than black pipe!

--
There are 10 kinds of people...Those that understand binary and those that
don't
"Those Minds" wrote in message
...
Yup, they are PVC.
We've had a few ruptures in the past and the owners knew that the PVC was
"illegal", but kept using the excuse that the new stuff was too expensive
and would fix it later. No excuses for that and should get whatever fine
is
necessary IMHO.

Those Minds
"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Those Minds wrote:
OSHA showed up at work the other day.
snip
look sadder than Droopy the cartoon dog, the bottom line was that we
have to
change out all the air lines (explosive hazard) and get trained on how
to

Are these PVC?

I am mighty sick of safety nazis. I'm not against safety, just those who
make it happen. In out plant your are trained and certified to climb a
ladder, though no ladder available to us is taller than 10'. We are trained
and certified to sit on a lab stool. Yep someone fell off one so all are
trained and certified. The yellow safety stickers are so prevalent you can
hardly see what color the machines are. The yellow stickers are to the
point of being just visual noise. If we have to write an operation and
maintenance manual for a new prototype machine the blank template is 29
pages long, profiled with safety information. Sometimes by the time we are
done with the manual we've only added 3-4 pages of technical information.
This safety stuff is way out of hand!
lg
no neat sig line

"Those Minds" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:_jypc.28996$5a.9520@okepread03...

Usually, OSHA does not just "show up". There has to be a complaint
filed
by
a current employee, and that means not from one that was just fired, but
one
that still works there. OR, there has to have been an accident with
injury,
or an "imminent threat to safety or health". Otherwise, the employer
can
refuse to allow the inspectors in. They can't just come in on fishing
trips. If refused, they can usually get in later, and now have put a
big
red X on that file meaning "pay close attention to this idiot in the
future
and cite him for EVERYTHING."

So, the company had to have a recent accident, or a current employee
filed
a
report. All in all, it seems reasonable to me. There were substandard
lines that could have exploded; hence ear protection. The exploding
lines
could have sent out fragments; hence eye protection. Maybe the
inspectors
thought that if the employees couldn't recognize PVC from acceptable air
lines, they needed assistance in other areas, too. Cheaping out on PVC
air
lines is about as cheap as you can get.

Steve

No recent accidents.
OSHA has been a regular visitor since we had a disgruntled employee who
was
fired and filed a bogus complaint about ten years ago. Management is more
than willing to take suggestions from OSHA to make a safe environment.
Don't get wrong here, I was just poking some fun . I take safety
seriously,as does about everyone else I work with. Doubtful if I would
work
in a recklesly hazardous environment. Our shop is a very safe working
environment. As with all places there are things that are not up to snuff.

My point was to show what I thought was humorous in that they feel the
need
to show a person who wears glasses how to put them on. As a matter of fact
The whole shop is good at wearing proper personal protective equipment.

Those Minds

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
news
And just what do you think they would have said about copper air lines?
Let
the flames commence!!! I'll never agree to anything other than black
pipe!


Interesting, Tom. Any particular reason? Shouldn't fail
catastrophically, but would certainly not have the rigidity of black pipe.
Want to share your thoughts?

Harold

Yeah, and this braille keyboard is a bitch too. The monitor was the tricky
part, though.

RJ

--
"Have no one say it, and say it to your shame, that all was well here, until
YOU came."




Then there's the brail on the drive up ATMs, but we won't go there....

Those Minds

"Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you"

Usually, OSHA does not just "show up". There has to be a complaint filed
by
a current employee, and that means not from one that was just fired, but
one
that still works there. OR, there has to have been an accident with
injury,

Not quite...AFAIK and have been told by people I trust and who are in a
postion to know, they WILL and do inspect based on former employees filing
complaints. The scary/wierd thing is that if, as a FORMER employee, you may
remain anonamous(or however the hell you spell it)...however, if you are a
CURRENT employee and wish to file a complaint, you have to give your name
AND they will give that name to the shop. Now there is nothing that says
you can't TELL them you are a former employee, of course.

or an "imminent threat to safety or health". Otherwise, the employer can
refuse to allow the inspectors in. They can't just come in on fishing

I'm real sure that I wouldn't want to be the one that told an inspector "No,
you can't come in...get a warrant". One thing I do know is that if you keep
them out, they will "inspect" from the parking lot and, of course, find
"imminent danger" exists and shut the shop down.

trips. If refused, they can usually get in later, and now have put a big
red X on that file meaning "pay close attention to this idiot in the
future
and cite him for EVERYTHING."

Mike

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...
Interesting, Tom. Any particular reason? Shouldn't fail
catastrophically, but would certainly not have the rigidity of black pipe.
Want to share your thoughts?

I think he's being sarcastic, in particular relating to that old thread
about copper vs. iron vs. some PVC a few months ago. (Thank goodness we
haven't had a hard-core PVC bashing here since last year.) Iron came out on
top with copper trailing close in second. PVC, as one can imagine, is in
the special olympics...

It's concievable that if the copper is corroded, overworked (vibrations) and
the pressure is high (perhaps even a shockwave somehow), it would burst. In
any normal situation it'll split at worst.

Tim

--
"I have misplaced my pants." - Homer Simpson | Electronics,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --+ Metalcasting
and Games: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

"Those Minds" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:_jypc.28996$5a.9520@okepread03...

Usually, OSHA does not just "show up". There has to be a complaint
filed
by
a current employee, and that means not from one that was just fired, but
one
that still works there. OR, there has to have been an accident with
injury,
or an "imminent threat to safety or health". Otherwise, the employer
can
refuse to allow the inspectors in. They can't just come in on fishing
trips. If refused, they can usually get in later, and now have put a
big
red X on that file meaning "pay close attention to this idiot in the
future
and cite him for EVERYTHING."

So, the company had to have a recent accident, or a current employee
filed
a
report. All in all, it seems reasonable to me. There were substandard
lines that could have exploded; hence ear protection. The exploding
lines
could have sent out fragments; hence eye protection. Maybe the
inspectors
thought that if the employees couldn't recognize PVC from acceptable air
lines, they needed assistance in other areas, too. Cheaping out on PVC
air
lines is about as cheap as you can get.

Steve

No recent accidents.
OSHA has been a regular visitor since we had a disgruntled employee who
was
fired and filed a bogus complaint about ten years ago. Management is more
than willing to take suggestions from OSHA to make a safe environment.
Don't get wrong here, I was just poking some fun . I take safety
seriously,as does about everyone else I work with. Doubtful if I would
work
in a recklesly hazardous environment. Our shop is a very safe working
environment. As with all places there are things that are not up to snuff.

My point was to show what I thought was humorous in that they feel the
need
to show a person who wears glasses how to put them on. As a matter of fact
The whole shop is good at wearing proper personal protective equipment.

Those Minds



OSHA, as well as the company "safety experts" can be utterly laughable at
times. Some of the things they come up with is relevent and useful in
saving pain and misery. And some of it looks like it was thought of by
"Fire Marshall Bill". (Jim Carey character)

But then, if you have worked at anything long enough, you can answer your
own question, "Is there truly anyone that stupid in the world that would do
such a thing as they have signs saying not to do?" And then you see one,
and you know there is really someone THAT stupid.

Like I said, once they put a red X on your file, it takes a while to fade.

Steve

In article _jypc.28996$5a.9520@okepread03, SteveB says...

Usually, OSHA does not just "show up". There has to be a complaint filed by
a current employee, and that means not from one that was just fired, but one
that still works there. OR, there has to have been an accident with injury,
or an "imminent threat to safety or health".

The rules are actually very specific.

There must have been a personal injury that caused more than
a two-day stay in the hospital, or a death on site, that
triggers an OSHA inspection on site. Under those conditions
I think the inspection cannot be refused, or the worker's
comp insurance gets yanked.

At one job we had plenty of ER vistits for folks who
tried to trim their nails with an end mill, and got it
a bit too close, etc. But none of these resulted in an osha
visit.

Another thing that most folks don't realize is that the
*size* of the shop matters a great deal. Shops with fewer
than eleven employees are exempt from most of the OSHA
reporting rules.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"larry g" wrote in message
...
I am mighty sick of safety nazis. I'm not against safety, just those who
make it happen. In out plant your are trained and certified to climb a
ladder, though no ladder available to us is taller than 10'. We are
trained
and certified to sit on a lab stool. Yep someone fell off one so all are
trained and certified. The yellow safety stickers are so prevalent you
can
hardly see what color the machines are. The yellow stickers are to the
point of being just visual noise. If we have to write an operation and
maintenance manual for a new prototype machine the blank template is 29
pages long, profiled with safety information. Sometimes by the time we
are
done with the manual we've only added 3-4 pages of technical information.
This safety stuff is way out of hand!
lg
no neat sig line

My favorite is when they require a fall harness when working over 6 feet
high. And then the safety harness has a ten foot lanyard. When you hit the
floor, you still got four feet of lanyard left!

Steve

"The Davenports" wrote in message
...
Those Minds

"Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you"

Usually, OSHA does not just "show up". There has to be a complaint
filed
by
a current employee, and that means not from one that was just fired, but
one
that still works there. OR, there has to have been an accident with
injury,

Not quite...AFAIK and have been told by people I trust and who are in a
postion to know, they WILL and do inspect based on former employees filing
complaints. The scary/wierd thing is that if, as a FORMER employee, you
may
remain anonamous(or however the hell you spell it)...however, if you are a
CURRENT employee and wish to file a complaint, you have to give your name
AND they will give that name to the shop. Now there is nothing that says
you can't TELL them you are a former employee, of course.

or an "imminent threat to safety or health". Otherwise, the employer
can
refuse to allow the inspectors in. They can't just come in on fishing

I'm real sure that I wouldn't want to be the one that told an inspector
"No,
you can't come in...get a warrant". One thing I do know is that if you
keep
them out, they will "inspect" from the parking lot and, of course, find
"imminent danger" exists and shut the shop down.

trips. If refused, they can usually get in later, and now have put a
big
red X on that file meaning "pay close attention to this idiot in the
future
and cite him for EVERYTHING."

Mike



I am citing from safety schooling I took in the nineties. It changes with
the wind, so today it is probably different.

Steve

OSHA .... just another wart on the asshole of progress.

JLZ


"Anthony" wrote in message
...
"Those Minds" wrote in
:

OSHA showed up at work the other day.
Oh joy, oh joy, another reason to get the boss paranoid.
After the grand tour and filling out reams of papers and causing the
boss to look sadder than Droopy the cartoon dog, the bottom line was
that we have to change out all the air lines (explosive hazard) and
get trained on how to put on safety glasses and how to insert earplugs
into our ears. In addition, we have to put up "exit" signs.

If the air lines are PVC, I agree with OSHA. Plastic can become brittle
in the presence of certian oils and other chemicals. You are possibly
looking at hundreds of little shards of very sharp plastic being shot out
much like a anti-personnel round should the line rupture.



This brought up a few questions in my mind:
1. If I don't know how to put my glasses on, how are they going to
train me? They can't give me written instructions because I can't read
(blind or visually impaired; take your pick) without glasses. They
can't give me verbal instructions because I obviously don't know how
to wear earplugs and after 12 years of working there I must be deaf
(hearing impaired for the politically correct crowd) .

I realize the fun you are poking here, but honestly, you would be
suprised at the number of folks who don't understand proper eye
protection. This includes side shields. I've had eye damage from chips
before, not fun....at all....I work with a fella who lost an eye from
improperly wearing his safety glasses.
Unfortunately, I've seen several people hurt in an industrial
environment, as probably many people here have. Fortunately, i've kept
all my important body parts out of danger, only minor accidents, but some
people aren't so lucky.
*MOST* of the time, the employee was doing something unsafe at the time
of the accident (operator disabled safety device, bypassed safety device,
climbing without a ladder, reaching into moving machinery, etc)
There have been instances where equipment failed, causing injury, but
those are very rare compared to the previous reason. It can not only cost
you some body part...it can cost you your life, I've see one of those in
my lifetime, and I hope I never see another. (Operator disabled one
safety device and bypassed another - it cost him his life.)



2. How are they going to tell me how to put my earplugs in if I can't
hear? 3. What good are the EXIT signs if I can't read them because I
don't know how to put my glasses on?
4. How the hell have I been managing to get out of the building all
these years without a sign to tell me.

Those are lighted, battery backup emergency lights. Should the power
fail, a fire where smoke is thick, or other emergency arise, those lights
stay on.







--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free...... Dam straight..We are wearing our
protection !
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 5/9/04

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article _jypc.28996$5a.9520@okepread03, SteveB says...
The rules are actually very specific.

There must have been a personal injury that caused more than
a two-day stay in the hospital, or a death on site, that
triggers an OSHA inspection on site. Under those conditions
I think the inspection cannot be refused, or the worker's
comp insurance gets yanked.

Snipping occured

Jim

In the 12 years working there, there have been three injuries requiring ER
visits. No one has had to stay in the hospital. Stitches were the only thing
required.

Those Minds

I just don't know to be honest. Something in the back of my mind just won't
accept it. I might accept copper for a home shop but I've had to repair too
many black pipes from abuse to think copper would ever do. In the back of
my mind, I think that the black pipe helps support the roof! At least I
know about my blinders and hired Roger as a consultant just to "look" at
things with new eye balls.
--

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
news
And just what do you think they would have said about copper air lines?
Let
the flames commence!!! I'll never agree to anything other than black
pipe!


Interesting, Tom. Any particular reason? Shouldn't fail
catastrophically, but would certainly not have the rigidity of black pipe.
Want to share your thoughts?

Harold

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
. com...
I just don't know to be honest. Something in the back of my mind just
won't
accept it. I might accept copper for a home shop but I've had to repair
too
many black pipes from abuse to think copper would ever do. In the back of
my mind, I think that the black pipe helps support the roof! At least I
know about my blinders and hired Roger as a consultant just to "look" at
things with new eye balls.


Good enough for me, Tom. I think all of us have things that we believe in,
and things we don't. I thought maybe in this case you knew something
that had gotten past me.

Thanks,

Harold

jim rozen wrote:
In article , Those Minds says...


My boss did not exhibit a sense of humor when I asked him these questions.


Odd, they *never* do. Indeed I have found that repeated questionings
like that can lead to a rapid exit from the employement!

Ahh, that explains how to exit the building when he can't read the
exit signs!

Jon

In the training by OSHA reps that I have had, there are at least two kinds
of Osha officers. Training officers, which he was, and compliance officers,
who carry badges. He said if you stall a compliance officer longer than 15
minutes or so in the lobby, he will leave and come back with a deputy and a
warrant to enter the premises. If they are there to examine your air
compressors, for example, you can leave the lobby and go around the outside
of the building to show them to the officer. If you go through the building,
or pass anything that catches his eye, he is required to address infractions
as he sees them. Apparently, they do not always do generalized inspections.
In the installation of a new roof on the factory, an officer showed up at
the base of the ladder and wanted to talk to the roofing contractor about
his lack of perimeter roping. I was on the roof. He was not interested in
any other functions going on relative to the factory itself. The inspector
told them that a rival roofing contractor told him about it, and physically
lead him to the jobsite. Ain't that chicken****?
The training officer also told us that a backhoe working in sight of the
highway was an OSHA MAGNET. Personal cave-in protection for the pit worker
must often go lacking.


RJ

--
"Have no one say it, and say it to your shame, that all was well here, until
YOU came."




"The Davenports" wrote in message
...
Those Minds

"Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you"

Usually, OSHA does not just "show up". There has to be a complaint
filed
by
a current employee, and that means not from one that was just fired, but
one
that still works there. OR, there has to have been an accident with
injury,

Not quite...AFAIK and have been told by people I trust and who are in a
postion to know, they WILL and do inspect based on former employees filing
complaints. The scary/wierd thing is that if, as a FORMER employee, you
may
remain anonamous(or however the hell you spell it)...however, if you are a
CURRENT employee and wish to file a complaint, you have to give your name
AND they will give that name to the shop. Now there is nothing that says
you can't TELL them you are a former employee, of course.

or an "imminent threat to safety or health". Otherwise, the employer
can
refuse to allow the inspectors in. They can't just come in on fishing

I'm real sure that I wouldn't want to be the one that told an inspector
"No,
you can't come in...get a warrant". One thing I do know is that if you
keep
them out, they will "inspect" from the parking lot and, of course, find
"imminent danger" exists and shut the shop down.

trips. If refused, they can usually get in later, and now have put a
big
red X on that file meaning "pay close attention to this idiot in the
future
and cite him for EVERYTHING."

Mike

Once had a Cal Osha guy show up at our sign shop and start looking for
violations. Only thing he could find was a few loose lids on LATEX paint
cans. He said they were emitting volatile organic compounds.
I told him that made no sense at all because as soon as I apply the
paint to those sign blanks it is going to emit exactly all of the VOCs
so am I not able to paint anything again?
He gave me a blank stare like he I had just asked him a trick question
and just left the building.

On Sat, 15 May 2004 11:12:41 -0700, "Those Minds"
wrote:

On a previous visit, OSHA was pleased with all the signs around the shop
spaces telling the uninformed that they should wear eye protection.

See? You guys were TOO safe so the inspector had to invent more hoops
for you to jump through to justify his existence. And we wonder why
companies pull up stakes and move to China.

Rob

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Rob Skinner
La Habra, California
www.rustyiron.com

In article , Those Minds says...

In the 12 years working there, there have been three injuries requiring ER
visits. No one has had to stay in the hospital. Stitches were the only thing
required.

If there was no two-night stay then those events would not
automatically trigger an osha investigation, according to the
rules as I understand them.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

We may be referring to different entities. I am in Oregon, under the perview
of OR-OSHA.
My understanding (and I may be wong) is that the individual states comply
with the Fed's regulations and add more at will but may not subtract.
I have'nt heard of a provision of a minimum hospital stay before they can
show up.

Those Minds


"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Those Minds says...

In the 12 years working there, there have been three injuries requiring
ER
visits. No one has had to stay in the hospital. Stitches were the only
thing
required.

If there was no two-night stay then those events would not
automatically trigger an osha investigation, according to the
rules as I understand them.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Those Minds says...

We may be referring to different entities. I am in Oregon, under the perview
of OR-OSHA.
My understanding (and I may be wong) is that the individual states comply
with the Fed's regulations and add more at will but may not subtract.
I have'nt heard of a provision of a minimum hospital stay before they can
show up.

The comments I made were specifically referenced to NY. My suspicion
is that a) NY has some of the more liberal approaches to this stuff,
and that b) OSHA, being a federal agency, probably has its rules
standardized across the states.

Again, the comment was that the two night hospital stay was what
was required before they were *required* by their own internal
osha regulations to appear and inspect the worksite. That or a
death. I think there's always the chance they might do so for
a lesser event - thought given the state of OSHA funding right
now this is highly unlikely.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Anthony" wrote in message
...

I realize the fun you are poking here, but honestly, you would be
suprised at the number of folks who don't understand proper eye
protection.

A law was recently passed in Canada (bill C-45) that if a co-worker is
injured and you knew about the safety infraction and didn't do anything, you
can be held criminally liable. Granted, hard to nail someone for that,
but...

In the two shops I currently work in, you wear safety glasses and safety
boots 100% of the time. If you don't have them or won't wear them, you go
home or you're fired.

Regards,

Robin

"Robin S." wrote in message
.. .

"Anthony" wrote in message
...

I realize the fun you are poking here, but honestly, you would be
suprised at the number of folks who don't understand proper eye
protection.

A law was recently passed in Canada (bill C-45) that if a co-worker is
injured and you knew about the safety infraction and didn't do anything,
you
can be held criminally liable. Granted, hard to nail someone for that,
but...

In the two shops I currently work in, you wear safety glasses and safety
boots 100% of the time. If you don't have them or won't wear them, you go
home or you're fired.

Regards,

Robin



And if you go blind, they send you home, too. ;-)

Steve

"Backlash" wrote in
:

In the training by OSHA reps that I have had, there are at least two
kinds of Osha officers. Training officers, which he was, and
compliance officers, who carry badges. He said if you stall a
compliance officer longer than 15 minutes or so in the lobby, he will
leave and come back with a deputy and a warrant to enter the premises.
If they are there to examine your air compressors, for example, you
can leave the lobby and go around the outside of the building to show
them to the officer. If you go through the building, or pass anything
that catches his eye, he is required to address infractions as he sees
them. Apparently, they do not always do generalized inspections.
In the installation of a new roof on the factory, an officer showed
up at
the base of the ladder and wanted to talk to the roofing contractor
about his lack of perimeter roping. I was on the roof. He was not
interested in any other functions going on relative to the factory
itself. The inspector told them that a rival roofing contractor told
him about it, and physically lead him to the jobsite. Ain't that
chicken****?
The training officer also told us that a backhoe working in sight of
the
highway was an OSHA MAGNET. Personal cave-in protection for the pit
worker must often go lacking.


RJ



Just had a man killed locally Friday in a trench cave-in. Another man in
the ditch survived, but with a dislocated leg and other injuries. It
took 5 hours to get the survivor out. Installing a sewer line, and I bet
there was no cage in the ditch either, although the paper never said one
way or another.


--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

"Siggy" wrote in message
. ..
Although I completely agree that OSHA is generally a bit overbearing, the
sad truth is that if an accident were to occur and the cause be found to
be
one of these items that OSHA advised to clean up, guess who would lose
their
ass in the resulting lawsuit.

My office has joined in a voluntary program from OSHA called STAR where we
ask OSHA to come in and give us suggestions on what needs fixing and they
do
so with the agreement that they can't impose fines or penalties. That
way,
we get to claim OSHA compliance and we don't have the risk of racking up
big
fines from a surprise inspection visit.

That's a very good program and it even makes sense. What was the last time
any thing the government did make any sense?

You are absolutely right about what happens after an accident. It can cost
millions. Not only will the company get sued; OSHA will come in and put
some heavy fines on the company. I don't know how it works but every time
there is an accident OHSA is informed and they swoop down on the company
looking for any violation. My local scrap dealer had an employee that lost
his arm in a scrap shredder. It cost him a fortune. The only good to come
out of it was that the scrap dealer was a complete A-hole and it was great
to see someone stick it to him. The bad thing that came out of it, besides
the guy losing his arm, is that all my local scrap dealers are now paranoid
about being sued and they won't let anyone in to pick through the scrap
piles looking for good stuff. One of my great pleasures in life is taking a
piece of junk and doing something useful with it.

Scp