"Doug White" wrote in message
...
I just moved into a new home near Boston, and I need a set of
pull-down
attic stairs. I had a really nice set installed about 10 years ago in
my
old place, and have been trying for TWO MONTHS to find someone who
would
sell me another one. It was a very nice 2-piece sliding aluminum
design
that was very secure and rigid, with an insulated door,
weatherstripping,
good toe clearance and a neat rotary spring arrangement. The frame
was
made out of baltic birch plywood, and the whole thing was more like
cabinetry than the junk they sell in home stores in the US. They were
from a European company (Roto-Frank), but their US divison now only
sells
their sky light windows.

For the curious, the best web site I could find is in German:

http://www.roto.ch/bot/bot82main.htm

Their French divison (who makes them, I think) won't answer my emails,
and their English office claims that they can't sell them to me
because
they lack liability coverage in the US. I've looked all over, and I
haven't found anything that looks as nice and solid as the Roto-Frank
ladder. That includes German ones, Italian ones, Danish ones, Czech
ones, etc., all of which I CAN order and have shipped from overseas.
The
one outfit that makes a really good ladder refuses to sell me one
because
their lawyers are paranoid. I'm sure it meets all Europena (DIN?)
safety
standards, but probably doesn't meet OSHA labeling requirements or
something.

So much for the global economy. I should have ripped the old one out
before I left.

Doug White

Have them stamp made in china on the box

"Doug White" wrote in message
...
I just moved into a new home near Boston, and I need a set of pull-down
attic stairs. I had a really nice set installed about 10 years ago in my
old place, and have been trying for TWO MONTHS to find someone who would
sell me another one.


Both Werner and Louisville ladder make aluminum attic ladders. Do a Google
search. They should be able to give unfo of were to buy.
Greg

Keywords:
In article , "Greg O" wrote:

"Doug White" wrote in message
...
I just moved into a new home near Boston, and I need a set of pull-down
attic stairs. I had a really nice set installed about 10 years ago in my
old place, and have been trying for TWO MONTHS to find someone who would
sell me another one.


Both Werner and Louisville ladder make aluminum attic ladders. Do a Google
search. They should be able to give unfo of were to buy.

I've looked at them, and they are my fallback position. Their idea of
insulation is to stick an unprotected slab of styrofoam between the
ladder and the door. This eliminates the minimal toe clearance they have
and guarantees that A) you get to go up & down on your toes, and B) that
you will quickly damage the insulation. They have thin doors, and no
weather stripping. I live in the Boston area, and you can lose a LOT of
heat through a typical attic stair door. Yes, I could weather strip one
of the US models, but they are still flimsy compared to the one the
Europeans refuse to sell me.

Doug White

In article , Doug White wrote:
Keywords:
In article , "Greg O" wrote:

"Doug White" wrote in message
...
I just moved into a new home near Boston, and I need a set of pull-down
attic stairs. I had a really nice set installed about 10 years ago in my
old place, and have been trying for TWO MONTHS to find someone who would
sell me another one.


Both Werner and Louisville ladder make aluminum attic ladders. Do a Google
search. They should be able to give unfo of were to buy.

I've looked at them, and they are my fallback position. Their idea of
insulation is to stick an unprotected slab of styrofoam between the
ladder and the door. This eliminates the minimal toe clearance they have
and guarantees that A) you get to go up & down on your toes, and B) that
you will quickly damage the insulation. They have thin doors, and no
weather stripping. I live in the Boston area, and you can lose a LOT of
heat through a typical attic stair door. Yes, I could weather strip one
of the US models, but they are still flimsy compared to the one the
Europeans refuse to sell me. Doug White

does the panel _have_ to be flush to the ceiling? if no, you could
insulate the bottom side and use some thick trim to finish the
opening. --Loren

In article ,
Doug White wrote:

[ ... ]

Yes, I could weather strip one
of the US models, but they are still flimsy compared to the one the
Europeans refuse to sell me.

I'm sure that they would be glad to sell it to you -- in
*Europe*, where they don't have to deal with US regulations. If they
sell it to you in the US, they are opening themselves to the US laws
concerning product liability.

If you buy it in Europe, and subsequently import it yourself
(presuming that you have no problems with customs), you are then
assuming all of the risk, and they are off the hook, and happy.

If you want to rant at someone, rant at those who got the
current set of product liability laws in place. :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

(Doug White) wrote in message ...
Keywords:
In article , "Greg O" wrote:

"Doug White" wrote in message
...
I just moved into a new home near Boston, and I need a set of pull-down
attic stairs. I had a really nice set installed about 10 years ago in my
old place, and have been trying for TWO MONTHS to find someone who would
sell me another one.


Both Werner and Louisville ladder make aluminum attic ladders. Do a Google
search. They should be able to give unfo of were to buy.

I've looked at them, and they are my fallback position. Their idea of
insulation is to stick an unprotected slab of styrofoam between the
ladder and the door. This eliminates the minimal toe clearance they have
and guarantees that A) you get to go up & down on your toes, and B) that
you will quickly damage the insulation. They have thin doors, and no
weather stripping. I live in the Boston area, and you can lose a LOT of
heat through a typical attic stair door. Yes, I could weather strip one
of the US models, but they are still flimsy compared to the one the
Europeans refuse to sell me.

Doug White

Can you build a separate insulated "trap door" inside the attic, that
you pull down over the attic side of the opening to both seal and
insulate it? Then you could just choose the best door from the
mechanical perspective.

Keywords:
In article , (Bob Powell) wrote:
(Doug White) wrote in message
...
Keywords:
In article , "Greg O"
wrote:
snip

Can you build a separate insulated "trap door" inside the attic, that
you pull down over the attic side of the opening to both seal and
insulate it? Then you could just choose the best door from the
mechanical perspective.

They sell such things, but they are a pain in the neck to wrestle with
every time you need to go up for a roll of wrapping paper or a box for
something. There are all sorts of compromises and work-arounds that I
could use, but it all seems silly when there is a perfectly workable
solution that I just can't buy because I live in the US.

My wife has a friend who speaks French, and she's going to call the
factory & see if the French lawyers are less fussy than the English ones.
One of the things that makes this even more agravating is that there's
an Irish company that sells half a dozen brands of European attic stairs
& will happily ship to the US. They don't seem to have any concerns
about liability law suits, but they don't also sell the brand I want.

Doug White

Are you close enough to Canada to try to buy one there? Perhaps the
Canadians don't have the libel problems..

Keywords:
In article , (brownnsharp) wrote:
Are you close enough to Canada to try to buy one there? Perhaps the
Canadians don't have the libel problems..

I checked, and they don't sell them there either.

Doug White

An alternative is to add an insulating cover to your stairs. We
manufacture such a cover and offer an R-50 insulation kit. Our website
is www.batticdoor.com