Last year I bought a diesel truck, an '83 half-ton Volkswagen Rabbit,
with the idea of rebuilding the engine, and then running it on recycled
cooking oil. Now I am giving serious thought to converting it to
steam.

The idea of being able to power my truck with solid fuel is one which I
find to be greatly appealing. At the time I decided to convert to
diesel, I was looking for an economical means of moving foundry coke
from Alabama to Texas. With a gasoline powered vehicle, the cost of
the gasoline would exceed the cost of the coke by one full magnitude.
Interestingly, for about the first century of their existence, most
steam powered road vehicles which I have read about seem to have run on
coke.

In the nineteen-fifties, the Sentinel truck company sold several
hundred steam trucks to the government of Argentina. These trucks were
used for hauling coal. Of course, these trucks burned part of their
load to power their boilers. I see no reason why the Argentinian
solution should not work for me also.

Any comments?

MikeMandaville wrote:

Last year I bought a diesel truck, an '83 half-ton Volkswagen Rabbit,
with the idea of rebuilding the engine, and then running it on recycled
cooking oil. Now I am giving serious thought to converting it to
steam.

The idea of being able to power my truck with solid fuel is one which I
find to be greatly appealing. At the time I decided to convert to
diesel, I was looking for an economical means of moving foundry coke
from Alabama to Texas. With a gasoline powered vehicle, the cost of
the gasoline would exceed the cost of the coke by one full magnitude.
Interestingly, for about the first century of their existence, most
steam powered road vehicles which I have read about seem to have run on
coke.

In the nineteen-fifties, the Sentinel truck company sold several
hundred steam trucks to the government of Argentina. These trucks were
used for hauling coal. Of course, these trucks burned part of their
load to power their boilers. I see no reason why the Argentinian
solution should not work for me also.

Any comments?

You'll have to go with flash steam rather than a boiler. Regulatory
issues will be a PITA. Coke is not really cheap, as it costs a pile to
get it from where it's made, to where it's used. Black smoke and cinders
coming out of it will have every envirofreak and treehugger on your ass.
Maintenance issues are a pain.

Of course, if it made any sense at all, they would be everywhere, but
mostly steam vehicles are in museums and collections of oddities. Wonder
why? Cost less to run other means of propulsion, that's why.

Of course you might cover all the bases and run flash steam with an
alcohol burner, just to see whether you actually could get any form of
liability insurance at all.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

I build 1/8 scale Live Steam Locomotives.... these are big enough to ride on
and have quite a lot of power, like pulling 15 cars with 50 people kind of
power. :-)

You are going to find your biggest problem is water... unless you build a
condensing steam engine, you are not going to go very far before you have to
stop for water. Condensing engines are pretty well known (steam ship
engines are condensing) but this just adds another layer of things to break
and can be a real PITA in something as small as an automoble

Steam engines do have some interesting characteristics, like full torque at
0 RPM, or the ability to use the engine as a brake by sliding the valve
timing back, even past forward to reverse.

In the long run I'd go back to diesel.
--.- Dave


"MikeMandaville" wrote in message
ups.com...
Last year I bought a diesel truck, an '83 half-ton Volkswagen Rabbit,
with the idea of rebuilding the engine, and then running it on recycled
cooking oil. Now I am giving serious thought to converting it to
steam.

The idea of being able to power my truck with solid fuel is one which I
find to be greatly appealing. At the time I decided to convert to
diesel, I was looking for an economical means of moving foundry coke
from Alabama to Texas. With a gasoline powered vehicle, the cost of
the gasoline would exceed the cost of the coke by one full magnitude.
Interestingly, for about the first century of their existence, most
steam powered road vehicles which I have read about seem to have run on
coke.

In the nineteen-fifties, the Sentinel truck company sold several
hundred steam trucks to the government of Argentina. These trucks were
used for hauling coal. Of course, these trucks burned part of their
load to power their boilers. I see no reason why the Argentinian
solution should not work for me also.

Any comments?

I wish I could remember. Several years back, one of the RCM readers
reported he had figured out a way to convert the V-8 engine in his pickup
truck to steam. It was very easy to do, according to him. Also Live Steam
Magazine ran a series on the Barret steam Volkswagen.

Bob Swinney
"Dave August" wrote in message
. com...
I build 1/8 scale Live Steam Locomotives.... these are big enough to ride
on and have quite a lot of power, like pulling 15 cars with 50 people kind
of power. :-)

You are going to find your biggest problem is water... unless you build a
condensing steam engine, you are not going to go very far before you have
to stop for water. Condensing engines are pretty well known (steam ship
engines are condensing) but this just adds another layer of things to
break and can be a real PITA in something as small as an automoble

Steam engines do have some interesting characteristics, like full torque
at 0 RPM, or the ability to use the engine as a brake by sliding the valve
timing back, even past forward to reverse.

In the long run I'd go back to diesel.
--.- Dave


"MikeMandaville" wrote in message
ups.com...
Last year I bought a diesel truck, an '83 half-ton Volkswagen Rabbit,
with the idea of rebuilding the engine, and then running it on recycled
cooking oil. Now I am giving serious thought to converting it to
steam.

The idea of being able to power my truck with solid fuel is one which I
find to be greatly appealing. At the time I decided to convert to
diesel, I was looking for an economical means of moving foundry coke
from Alabama to Texas. With a gasoline powered vehicle, the cost of
the gasoline would exceed the cost of the coke by one full magnitude.
Interestingly, for about the first century of their existence, most
steam powered road vehicles which I have read about seem to have run on
coke.

In the nineteen-fifties, the Sentinel truck company sold several
hundred steam trucks to the government of Argentina. These trucks were
used for hauling coal. Of course, these trucks burned part of their
load to power their boilers. I see no reason why the Argentinian
solution should not work for me also.

Any comments?

Robert Swinney wrote:
I wish I could remember. Several years back, one of the RCM readers
reported he had figured out a way to convert the V-8 engine in his pickup
truck to steam. It was very easy to do, according to him. Also Live Steam
Magazine ran a series on the Barret steam Volkswagen.

Bob Swinney

Just a new camshaft will get you a good part of the way there, with a
new intake manifold that will seal at the high pressures.

D

Have you ever driven the mentioned vehicle? If it will carry 1/2t my 1/2t
GMC will haul 5t. Those things unloaded took an appointment to get on a
freeway, acceleration is the slowest I have ever seen. Great fuel mileage,
over 50, but no power. And that's empty. Put a 1/2t on one of those and it
might get up a small hill.

--

Clif

"MikeMandaville" wrote in message
ups.com...
Last year I bought a diesel truck, an '83 half-ton Volkswagen Rabbit,
with the idea of rebuilding the engine, and then running it on recycled
cooking oil. Now I am giving serious thought to converting it to
steam.

The idea of being able to power my truck with solid fuel is one which I
find to be greatly appealing. At the time I decided to convert to
diesel, I was looking for an economical means of moving foundry coke
from Alabama to Texas. With a gasoline powered vehicle, the cost of
the gasoline would exceed the cost of the coke by one full magnitude.
Interestingly, for about the first century of their existence, most
steam powered road vehicles which I have read about seem to have run on
coke.

In the nineteen-fifties, the Sentinel truck company sold several
hundred steam trucks to the government of Argentina. These trucks were
used for hauling coal. Of course, these trucks burned part of their
load to power their boilers. I see no reason why the Argentinian
solution should not work for me also.

Any comments?

I'd bet that 1950's environmental regulations in Argentina were
a lot more liberal than current U.S. emissions regulations.
Don't try to run a coal-fired car on a public road.

MikeMandaville wrote:

In the nineteen-fifties, the Sentinel truck company sold several
hundred steam trucks to the government of Argentina. These trucks were
used for hauling coal. Of course, these trucks burned part of their
load to power their boilers. I see no reason why the Argentinian
solution should not work for me also.

Bill Lear (of Lear Jet fame)spent millions trying to build a practical steam
vehicle in the sixties. He failed. Their thermal efficiency is lower than
an Otto cycle engine, which is the kiss of death unless the fuel is very
cheap.

"MikeMandaville" wrote in message
ups.com...
Last year I bought a diesel truck, an '83 half-ton Volkswagen Rabbit,
with the idea of rebuilding the engine, and then running it on recycled
cooking oil. Now I am giving serious thought to converting it to
steam.

The idea of being able to power my truck with solid fuel is one which I
find to be greatly appealing. At the time I decided to convert to
diesel, I was looking for an economical means of moving foundry coke
from Alabama to Texas. With a gasoline powered vehicle, the cost of
the gasoline would exceed the cost of the coke by one full magnitude.
Interestingly, for about the first century of their existence, most
steam powered road vehicles which I have read about seem to have run on
coke.

In the nineteen-fifties, the Sentinel truck company sold several
hundred steam trucks to the government of Argentina. These trucks were
used for hauling coal. Of course, these trucks burned part of their
load to power their boilers. I see no reason why the Argentinian
solution should not work for me also.

Any comments?

MikeMandaville wrote:


Any comments?

The railroads went to DIesel.

Dan

Bob Swinney wrote:

I wish I could remember. Several years back, one of the RCM readers
reported he had figured out a way to convert the V-8 engine in his
pickup
truck to steam. It was very easy to do, according to him.

A cut-and-paste of the phrase "steam engine conversion" will locate
that thread.

Also Live Steam
Magazine ran a series on the Barret steam Volkswagen.

Yes, and here's that one:

http://www.firedragon.com/~kap/Barre...onversion.html

Actually, what I have in mind is to keep the Rabbit body, but to start
from scratch on the engine.

Robert Swinney wrote:
I wish I could remember. Several years back, one of the RCM readers
reported he had figured out a way to convert the V-8 engine in his pickup
truck to steam. It was very easy to do, according to him. Also Live Steam
Magazine ran a series on the Barret steam Volkswagen.
--I encountered one of the members of SACA West at the Makers Fair
last month and he told me that Pete Barrett had died and that his really
fantastic car had been sold but he didn't know who got it. If you want to
find out about it I'd recommend that you get in touch with Ken Kowal, who
lives in the Los Angeles area. Ken is, as far as I know, the brains that
keeps SACA West ticking over and he's a real walking encyclopedia of all
things steam car..


--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Whatever happened
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : to Porgy Tirebiter?
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

MikeMandaville wrote:

Last year I bought a diesel truck, an '83 half-ton Volkswagen Rabbit,
with the idea of rebuilding the engine, and then running it on recycled
cooking oil. Now I am giving serious thought to converting it to
steam.

The idea of being able to power my truck with solid fuel is one which I
find to be greatly appealing. At the time I decided to convert to
diesel, I was looking for an economical means of moving foundry coke
from Alabama to Texas. With a gasoline powered vehicle, the cost of
the gasoline would exceed the cost of the coke by one full magnitude.
Interestingly, for about the first century of their existence, most
steam powered road vehicles which I have read about seem to have run on
coke.

In the nineteen-fifties, the Sentinel truck company sold several
hundred steam trucks to the government of Argentina. These trucks were
used for hauling coal. Of course, these trucks burned part of their
load to power their boilers. I see no reason why the Argentinian
solution should not work for me also.

Did they need a fireman and an engineer
in each cab? Did they stop for maintanance
every 100 miles like steam locomotives?
Have you ever been up-close and personal
with burning coal? Steam makes a great
hobby but I'd never want to depend on
getting somewhere with it.

Biodiesel and cooking oil work well with
minimal complications. I'd stick with
that.

wrote in message
ups.com...

MikeMandaville wrote:


Any comments?

The railroads went to DIesel.

Dan


And for multiple reasons (all very warranted, too!), much to my chagrin.

Harold

Ever find a source for that cooking oil that is supposed to be so plentiful?
Is that why you are looking at steam?

There was a Car & Driver article I believe about 20 years ago about Bill
Lear's steam car. It worked, it ran, it was fast and everything, but in
order to achieve this, it had steam tubing through all the body panels. One
fender bender and the driver would be covered in live steam and cooked like
a lobster, I seem to recall. But it was a long time ago, I might be
wrong...

Get a Stanley Steamer like Jay Leno. It takes a while to fire it up so i
hope your not in a rush to go anywhere.


"MikeMandaville" wrote in message
ups.com...
Last year I bought a diesel truck, an '83 half-ton Volkswagen Rabbit,
with the idea of rebuilding the engine, and then running it on recycled
cooking oil. Now I am giving serious thought to converting it to
steam.

The idea of being able to power my truck with solid fuel is one which I
find to be greatly appealing. At the time I decided to convert to
diesel, I was looking for an economical means of moving foundry coke
from Alabama to Texas. With a gasoline powered vehicle, the cost of
the gasoline would exceed the cost of the coke by one full magnitude.
Interestingly, for about the first century of their existence, most
steam powered road vehicles which I have read about seem to have run on
coke.

In the nineteen-fifties, the Sentinel truck company sold several
hundred steam trucks to the government of Argentina. These trucks were
used for hauling coal. Of course, these trucks burned part of their
load to power their boilers. I see no reason why the Argentinian
solution should not work for me also.

Any comments?

Actually it went to Diesel-Electric. The Diesel motor drives an electric generator
that then drives DC motors for the drive. Speed control and power better with DC and electricity.

I lived three blocks from the tracks (one block from the center of town!) in the
late 40's and early 50's. Very close to 1. Travis AFB (B-36...cargo) and not far
from the SFO/Oakland Naval yards - hunter point... Bombs and Naval shells, mines.....

The Korean war was in swing and many many trains of heavy steam and newer Diesel
pulled material into our yard for staging.

I was a little guy at the time and was one of the few kids allowed to be at the
tracks while the men worked the trains. I was responsible and they knew it.
So I'm with you Harold - I miss the big iron - The great machines are thankfully stored
here and there. I got to see the Canadian Railroad big 6060 and sister on the old
rails north of Calgary.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member
http://lufkinced.com/



Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

MikeMandaville wrote:


Any comments?

The railroads went to DIesel.

Dan



And for multiple reasons (all very warranted, too!), much to my chagrin.

Harold



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Stop every 100 miles for water - those are the small little ones.
Not the massive mountain or the massive long run El Paso to San Antonio non-stop.
(at over 100 mph)
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member
http://lufkinced.com/



Jim Stewart wrote:
MikeMandaville wrote:

Last year I bought a diesel truck, an '83 half-ton Volkswagen Rabbit,
with the idea of rebuilding the engine, and then running it on recycled
cooking oil. Now I am giving serious thought to converting it to
steam.

The idea of being able to power my truck with solid fuel is one which I
find to be greatly appealing. At the time I decided to convert to
diesel, I was looking for an economical means of moving foundry coke
from Alabama to Texas. With a gasoline powered vehicle, the cost of
the gasoline would exceed the cost of the coke by one full magnitude.
Interestingly, for about the first century of their existence, most
steam powered road vehicles which I have read about seem to have run on
coke.

In the nineteen-fifties, the Sentinel truck company sold several
hundred steam trucks to the government of Argentina. These trucks were
used for hauling coal. Of course, these trucks burned part of their
load to power their boilers. I see no reason why the Argentinian
solution should not work for me also.


Did they need a fireman and an engineer
in each cab? Did they stop for maintanance
every 100 miles like steam locomotives?
Have you ever been up-close and personal
with burning coal? Steam makes a great
hobby but I'd never want to depend on
getting somewhere with it.

Biodiesel and cooking oil work well with
minimal complications. I'd stick with
that.



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On Wed, 24 May 2006 21:14:58 -0500, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
Actually it went to Diesel-Electric. The Diesel motor drives an electric generator
that then drives DC motors for the drive. Speed control and power better with DC and electricity.

Right. I'd like to buy a diesel-electric hybrid car, but there aren't
any on the market and I can't imagine the reason. Anyone? I mean, the
benefits of regenerative braking, with the ability to use existing
fueling infrastructure _or_ a biofuel. Why the heck can't I buy one?

Emmo wrote:

Ever find a source for that cooking oil that is supposed to be so plentiful?

Emmo, I am sorry to inform you that your idea that I should source
waste for your Mercedes-driving "friend" does not in any way obligate
me to do so. He will have to get off his lazy ass and do so himself,
and he certainly will not do so by calling up one or two Tex-Mex
restaurants. Please do your homework before you start shooting off
your mouth.

Is that why you are looking at steam?

Is _what_ why I am looking at steam? Emmo, you obviously think that I
should think for you, and complete your sentences, in order to help you
to disparage my character. As you have said, you can be wrong.
Especially when you work so hard at it.

"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message
...
snip-----
I lived three blocks from the tracks (one block from the center of town!)

Sigh! Yep, I did, too. I remember all too well the steam locos passing by
us as a youngster. We were about two blocks from the D&RG mainline. A
spur ran behind our house, half block tops. I can remember many a wash day
when my mother got her freshly washed whites blackened by cinders.

Ahh! The good old days! :-)

snip---

So I'm with you Harold - I miss the big iron - The great machines are
thankfully stored here and there. I got to see the Canadian Railroad big
6060
and sister onthe old rails north of Calgary.

Martin

We showed up a few times to see UP's 8444, then again when it was numbered
back to its original number, 844. We've also had the good fortune to
board 3985, just before it was converted to oil. They had it steamed up for
the crowd to enjoy in Salt Lake City. Not too long afterwards we enjoyed
a fan trip behind the old girl, which, by then, had been converted to oil.
The trip took us into Idaho from Utah, then returned.

All in all, a great day.

I truly miss the old steam locos and find little comfort with the modern
units. I fully realize they are superior, but that doesn't make them any
more desirable to me. Steam, like all living critters, had to die.

I'm grateful for the engines that have been saved.

Harold

"MikeMandaville" wrote in
message
ups.com...
Last year I bought a diesel truck, an '83
half-ton Volkswagen Rabbit,
with the idea of rebuilding the engine, and then
running it on recycled
cooking oil. Now I am giving serious thought to
converting it to
steam.

The idea of being able to power my truck with
solid fuel is one which I
find to be greatly appealing. At the time I
decided to convert to
diesel, I was looking for an economical means of
moving foundry coke
from Alabama to Texas. With a gasoline powered
vehicle, the cost of
the gasoline would exceed the cost of the coke
by one full magnitude.
Interestingly, for about the first century of
their existence, most
steam powered road vehicles which I have read
about seem to have run on
coke.

In the nineteen-fifties, the Sentinel truck
company sold several
hundred steam trucks to the government of
Argentina. These trucks were
used for hauling coal. Of course, these trucks
burned part of their
load to power their boilers. I see no reason
why the Argentinian
solution should not work for me also.

Any comments?

Well, we actually have a Sentinel truck at the
Science Museum where I volunteer, and I would
suggest that you plan on making a few improvements
on the Sentinel design ,if you are going to do
this. The damned thing needs two people to operate
it. One steers it and controls throttle, while the
other one shovels coal at a hell of a rate. I'd
plan on a mechanical stoker for starters.
The Argentineans also used them for hauling
timber and used a lot of off cuts. The boiler is
cast steel and uses a steel coil as a superheater.
Ours is off the road at the moment as the feed
water pump suffered a terminal accident
recently,breaking the casting that is part of the
engine/gearbox assembly. The rear wheels are
driven by 1 1/4 pitch chains , so we just pulled
off the chains and towed it back to the shed. we
will probably start work on it again next month
when the new financial year starts. There is no
consensus yet as the best way to repair it. We may
weld it up with nickel rod or get Metal Stitch to
quote on "cold welding" it

I guess your plan is possible but I'd spend a lot
of time thinking about it before I committed too
much time or money on it.

Tom

Power-to-weight not yet down enough for feasibility in auto size.

Bob Swinney
"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 May 2006 21:14:58 -0500, Martin H. Eastburn
wrote:
Actually it went to Diesel-Electric. The Diesel motor drives an electric
generator
that then drives DC motors for the drive. Speed control and power better
with DC and electricity.

Right. I'd like to buy a diesel-electric hybrid car, but there aren't
any on the market and I can't imagine the reason. Anyone? I mean, the
benefits of regenerative braking, with the ability to use existing
fueling infrastructure _or_ a biofuel. Why the heck can't I buy one?

Well said, Harold. Probably, there are a lot of steam fans on RCM.

Bob Swinney
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message
...
snip-----
I lived three blocks from the tracks (one block from the center of town!)

Sigh! Yep, I did, too. I remember all too well the steam locos passing
by
us as a youngster. We were about two blocks from the D&RG mainline. A
spur ran behind our house, half block tops. I can remember many a wash
day
when my mother got her freshly washed whites blackened by cinders.

Ahh! The good old days! :-)

snip---

So I'm with you Harold - I miss the big iron - The great machines are
thankfully stored here and there. I got to see the Canadian Railroad big
6060
and sister onthe old rails north of Calgary.

Martin

We showed up a few times to see UP's 8444, then again when it was numbered
back to its original number, 844. We've also had the good fortune to
board 3985, just before it was converted to oil. They had it steamed up
for
the crowd to enjoy in Salt Lake City. Not too long afterwards we
enjoyed
a fan trip behind the old girl, which, by then, had been converted to oil.
The trip took us into Idaho from Utah, then returned.

All in all, a great day.

I truly miss the old steam locos and find little comfort with the modern
units. I fully realize they are superior, but that doesn't make them any
more desirable to me. Steam, like all living critters, had to die.

I'm grateful for the engines that have been saved.

Harold

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 24 May 2006 21:14:58 -0500, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:

Actually it went to Diesel-Electric. The Diesel motor drives an electric generator
that then drives DC motors for the drive. Speed control and power better with DC and electricity.


Right. I'd like to buy a diesel-electric hybrid car, but there aren't
any on the market and I can't imagine the reason. Anyone? I mean, the
benefits of regenerative braking, with the ability to use existing
fueling infrastructure _or_ a biofuel. Why the heck can't I buy one?

To get regenerative braking you'd need
a diesel, an alternator or generator,
a controller, a battery and at least
one traction motor. Too much weight
and complexity to haul around.

BTW, diesel-electric locomotives do not
have regenerative braking. Road locomotives
have dynamic braking which just burns the
power up in a resistor grid rather than
on the wheels and brake shoes. Yard and
switch locomotives don't even have that.

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 24 May 2006 21:14:58 -0500, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:


Actually it went to Diesel-Electric. The Diesel motor drives an electric generator
that then drives DC motors for the drive. Speed control and power better with DC and electricity.



Right. I'd like to buy a diesel-electric hybrid car, but there aren't
any on the market and I can't imagine the reason. Anyone? I mean, the
benefits of regenerative braking, with the ability to use existing
fueling infrastructure _or_ a biofuel. Why the heck can't I buy one?






http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,66949,00.html



http://www.stealthtdi.com/Emissions.html

On Thu, 25 May 2006 10:02:27 -0700, Jim Stewart wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

Right. I'd like to buy a diesel-electric hybrid car, but there aren't
any on the market and I can't imagine the reason. Anyone? I mean, the
benefits of regenerative braking, with the ability to use existing
fueling infrastructure _or_ a biofuel. Why the heck can't I buy one?

To get regenerative braking you'd need
a diesel, an alternator or generator,
a controller, a battery and at least
one traction motor.

Right. This describes a modern hybrid auto, except for the fuel/engine
type.

Too much weight
and complexity to haul around.

Is it? As gasoline keeps going up, things which seemed prohibitive
before start getting more attractive.

On Thu, 25 May 2006 17:19:11 GMT, ff wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

Right. I'd like to buy a diesel-electric hybrid car, but there aren't
any on the market and I can't imagine the reason. Anyone? I mean, the
benefits of regenerative braking, with the ability to use existing
fueling infrastructure _or_ a biofuel. Why the heck can't I buy one?

http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,66949,00.html
http://www.stealthtdi.com/Emissions.html

Good to know they're actively working on it. Thanks for the links!

Dave

A question on steam truck conversion was posted and to this I say:

Solid fuel steam engines work much better as stationary power or heating
sources than moble ones or if moble (I.E. steam tractors) they don't
have to travel far or fast.
Another issue : Do you posses A high pressure engineers license?
Obtaining one without the proper training is impossible. In Minnesota
you need to start out as A 3rd class engineer and in about 10 years you
will have enough time in grade to advance to A chief A class license. A
notarized affidavit is needed from an engineer of A higher grade that
certifies that you have compleated the required time operating steam
boilers of the proper pressure than you can take the state written test
to obtain the next grade license. You go from 3rd,2nd A,1st A and chief
A.
There may be A requirement that a high pressure ticket be obtained for
each state or sometimes A city or county has a boiler license ordinance
and A license will be needed for each of them that you pass through.
In Minnesota all steam boilers (high and low pressure) must be
inspected by the state division of boiler inspection or the insurance
company (Hartford insurance is A big one around here) once A year or
after any major modification of the boiler,turbine or accouterments.
All in all it might be A bigger bag of snakes than just the mechanical
challenges.

Good luck!
H.R.
A MN. 1st class C low pressure engineer.
"Last year I didn't know what an engineer was and now I are one!"
Ole Olson

"Ignoramus5457" wrote in message
...
On 23 May 2006 20:14:14 -0700, MikeMandaville
wrote:
Last year I bought a diesel truck, an '83 half-ton Volkswagen Rabbit,
with the idea of rebuilding the engine, and then running it on recycled
cooking oil. Now I am giving serious thought to converting it to
steam.

The idea of being able to power my truck with solid fuel is one which I
find to be greatly appealing. At the time I decided to convert to
diesel, I was looking for an economical means of moving foundry coke
from Alabama to Texas. With a gasoline powered vehicle, the cost of
the gasoline would exceed the cost of the coke by one full magnitude.
Interestingly, for about the first century of their existence, most
steam powered road vehicles which I have read about seem to have run on
coke.

In the nineteen-fifties, the Sentinel truck company sold several
hundred steam trucks to the government of Argentina. These trucks were
used for hauling coal. Of course, these trucks burned part of their
load to power their boilers. I see no reason why the Argentinian
solution should not work for me also.

Any comments?


You would have to drive very carefully with a hot, pressurized
boiler on wheels... good luck getting insurance, I would also
appreciate knowing where you drive so that I do not go there...

i

wrote in message
...
A question on steam truck conversion was posted and to this I say:

Solid fuel steam engines work much better as stationary power or heating
sources than moble ones or if moble (I.E. steam tractors) they don't
have to travel far or fast.
Another issue : Do you posses A high pressure engineers license?
Obtaining one without the proper training is impossible. In Minnesota
you need to start out as A 3rd class engineer and in about 10 years you
will have enough time in grade to advance to A chief A class license. A
notarized affidavit is needed from an engineer of A higher grade that
certifies that you have compleated the required time operating steam
boilers of the proper pressure than you can take the state written test
to obtain the next grade license. You go from 3rd,2nd A,1st A and chief
A.
There may be A requirement that a high pressure ticket be obtained for
each state or sometimes A city or county has a boiler license ordinance
and A license will be needed for each of them that you pass through.
In Minnesota all steam boilers (high and low pressure) must be
inspected by the state division of boiler inspection or the insurance
company (Hartford insurance is A big one around here) once A year or
after any major modification of the boiler,turbine or accouterments.
All in all it might be A bigger bag of snakes than just the mechanical
challenges.

Good luck!
H.R.
A MN. 1st class C low pressure engineer.
"Last year I didn't know what an engineer was and now I are one!"
Ole Olson

To get regenerative braking you'd need
a diesel, an alternator or generator,
a controller, a battery and at least
one traction motor. Too much weight
and complexity to haul around.


Nope, they just use the traction motor and a fancy controller.

H.R. Sez:

"...All in all it might be A bigger bag of snakes than just the mechanical
challenges..."

Strongly disagree! There could be no greater challenge that trying to put a
steam plant in a pickup truck.

Iggy sez:

"... I would also appreciate knowing where you drive so that I do not go
there..."

Iggy, if that's a promise, you'll be the first person I notify.

Bob Swinney


"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...

"Ignoramus5457" wrote in message
...
On 23 May 2006 20:14:14 -0700, MikeMandaville
wrote:
Last year I bought a diesel truck, an '83 half-ton Volkswagen Rabbit,
with the idea of rebuilding the engine, and then running it on recycled
cooking oil. Now I am giving serious thought to converting it to
steam.

The idea of being able to power my truck with solid fuel is one which I
find to be greatly appealing. At the time I decided to convert to
diesel, I was looking for an economical means of moving foundry coke
from Alabama to Texas. With a gasoline powered vehicle, the cost of
the gasoline would exceed the cost of the coke by one full magnitude.
Interestingly, for about the first century of their existence, most
steam powered road vehicles which I have read about seem to have run on
coke.

In the nineteen-fifties, the Sentinel truck company sold several
hundred steam trucks to the government of Argentina. These trucks were
used for hauling coal. Of course, these trucks burned part of their
load to power their boilers. I see no reason why the Argentinian
solution should not work for me also.

Any comments?


You would have to drive very carefully with a hot, pressurized
boiler on wheels... good luck getting insurance,
i

Dave Lyon wrote:
To get regenerative braking you'd need
a diesel, an alternator or generator,
a controller, a battery and at least
one traction motor. Too much weight
and complexity to haul around.



Nope, they just use the traction motor and a fancy controller.

What was the question?

I apologize Mike, I did not intend to be disparaging. It does seem to me
that you have a continuing sourcing issue, however. If I recall correctly,
you wanted the coke because you were planning on making steel or casting
iron or something like that in order to make a lathe or mill or some kind of
machine. The coke was far away, so I tried to give you a local source, but
maybe I was wrong.

You needed the biodiesel fuel to modify the truck to go get the coke, and,
since I assumed that you had found the same difficulties that others have in
locating used cooking oil, I was asking if you were now looking at steam as
an alternative, since coke is easier to find than used cooking oil, even if
you have to drive hundreds of miles to get it...

But I guess I was wrong, as I'm not really paying that much attention...

I have gone the other way myself; I have just put a 360 Magnum motor into my
Jeep to replace the 318 that was in there. I like burning gasoline, and I
would like to burn more of it, if I could find a 52mm Holley throttle
body...

Good luck in whatever you end up actually doing...


"MikeMandaville" wrote in message
ups.com...
Emmo wrote:

Ever find a source for that cooking oil that is supposed to be so
plentiful?

Emmo, I am sorry to inform you that your idea that I should source
waste for your Mercedes-driving "friend" does not in any way obligate
me to do so. He will have to get off his lazy ass and do so himself,
and he certainly will not do so by calling up one or two Tex-Mex
restaurants. Please do your homework before you start shooting off
your mouth.

Is that why you are looking at steam?

Is _what_ why I am looking at steam? Emmo, you obviously think that I
should think for you, and complete your sentences, in order to help you
to disparage my character. As you have said, you can be wrong.
Especially when you work so hard at it.

Well I'm not exactly a Fan but have been watching the
restoration of AT&SF 2926 here in Abq. Quite an
undertaking to put it mildly.
...lew...

MikeMandaville wrote:

In the nineteen-fifties, the Sentinel truck company sold several
hundred steam trucks to the government of Argentina. These trucks were
used for hauling coal. Of course, these trucks burned part of their
load to power their boilers. I see no reason why the Argentinian
solution should not work for me also.

Any comments?



Although equipped to run on roads, those Sentinel trucks were closer to
a locomotive than what we think of as a truck and building one would be
quite a project. You might do better by adapting the design of one of
the Serpollet steam cars built in France in the 1890's. They burned
coke, fed automatically to the rear-mounted boiler, from a hopper. The
boiler was a lightweight flash type made from a continuous length of
tubing formed into a coil and was invented by Leon Serpollet. This
machine could be operated by one man rather than the 2 man
driver/stoker crews required by the Sentinel and similar large trucks.
According to the story Serpollet switched to liquid fuel mainly because
he thought coke was too dirty for the luxury horseless carriages he was
building, but this would be less of a problem in a truck.

Mike

Mike wrote:

You might do better by adapting the design of one of the Serpollet steam cars built in France in the 1890's. They burned coke, fed automatically to the rear-mounted boiler, from a hopper.

Mike, you are quite correct, and this is precisely what I intend to do.
I intend to apply the "Argentinian solution" insofar as the use of the
coke is concerned, though I will still be using the Rabbit body, and,
on the trip out, I will fire with wood, as Tom Miller has mentioned was
done with the Argentinian Sentinel timber haulers. I need to drive
into town now, but perhaps before I do, I should mention that I have
been studying the drawings for the Serpollet engine and boiler.

My neighbour and I were talking about steam things recently and he
mentioned that there were some Sentinels working in Bath, UK in the
1950s. He also mentioned that some taxation issue really helped kill
them earlier in the century although I think mostly diesel was easier to
use than steam. I can't recall the name but a couple of brothers IIRC
have some Sentinels near Bath and I have seen one some years ago at a
steam rally, quite interesting watching one pull a running steam
traction engine backwards with a steam winch. The Sentinels I saw was
the later one with the in-line engine and shaft drive to the rear axle,
IIRC the engine was designed by Abner Doble. The earlier engine with
chain drive from each end of the crankshaft to each rear wheel has an
interesting differential assembly threaded along the crankshaft, quite
clever and not something most people even consider.

MikeMandaville wrote:

Last year I bought a diesel truck, an '83 half-ton Volkswagen Rabbit,
with the idea of rebuilding the engine, and then running it on recycled
cooking oil. Now I am giving serious thought to converting it to
steam.

The idea of being able to power my truck with solid fuel is one which I
find to be greatly appealing. At the time I decided to convert to
diesel, I was looking for an economical means of moving foundry coke
from Alabama to Texas. With a gasoline powered vehicle, the cost of
the gasoline would exceed the cost of the coke by one full magnitude.
Interestingly, for about the first century of their existence, most
steam powered road vehicles which I have read about seem to have run on
coke.

In the nineteen-fifties, the Sentinel truck company sold several
hundred steam trucks to the government of Argentina. These trucks were
used for hauling coal. Of course, these trucks burned part of their
load to power their boilers. I see no reason why the Argentinian
solution should not work for me also.

Any comments?

On Wed, 24 May 2006 23:02:27 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message
...
snip-----
I lived three blocks from the tracks (one block from the center of town!)

Sigh! Yep, I did, too. I remember all too well the steam locos passing by
us as a youngster. We were about two blocks from the D&RG mainline. A
spur ran behind our house, half block tops. I can remember many a wash day
when my mother got her freshly washed whites blackened by cinders.

Ahh! The good old days! :-)

snip---

So I'm with you Harold - I miss the big iron - The great machines are
thankfully stored here and there. I got to see the Canadian Railroad big
6060
and sister onthe old rails north of Calgary.

Martin

We showed up a few times to see UP's 8444, then again when it was numbered
back to its original number, 844. We've also had the good fortune to
board 3985, just before it was converted to oil. They had it steamed up for
the crowd to enjoy in Salt Lake City. Not too long afterwards we enjoyed
a fan trip behind the old girl, which, by then, had been converted to oil.
The trip took us into Idaho from Utah, then returned.

All in all, a great day.

I truly miss the old steam locos and find little comfort with the modern
units. I fully realize they are superior, but that doesn't make them any
more desirable to me. Steam, like all living critters, had to die.

I'm grateful for the engines that have been saved.

Harold

I can still see the look on my 20 yr old son's face when we were
looking at the Allegheny locomotive at the Ford Museum. I think he was
more awed than the 8 yr old beside him!
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
...
snip----

I can still see the look on my 20 yr old son's face when we were
looking at the Allegheny locomotive at the Ford Museum. I think he was
more awed than the 8 yr old beside him!
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

I can understand that----and can't help but wonder what he might have felt
had he been standing by a loco that was steamed up. The compressors pulsing,
steam escaping here and there------the heat from the boiler--the sound of
the steam whistle----it's as if they are alive. They have a wonderful
throbbing that comes from nothing else.

While we're far better off for the more modern engines, there's no doubt in
my mind, the human race has lost something with the passing of steam locos,
particularly the coal fired models. They were truly magical.

Harold