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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
I was talking to a couple today that own a scrap business. They deal in
paper, plastic and steel. We got on the subject of scrap steel and the high prices we are seeing today. We also talked about China buying alot of scrap steel. They said that because the US doesn't make as much steel for products as we used to (using more plastics instead) that if a need for a large quantity of steel were needed (in case of a major war) that China would name their price and we would have to buy it because we simply do not have it. How real would something like this scenerio be? I'm putting all political bias to the wayside, plain and simple, are we setting ourselves up for a major screwing in the long run? They also said the grade of steel coming out of China is good, they used to have very poor steel but they're quality is far better than the past. walt |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
Walt wrote:
I was talking to a couple today that own a scrap business. They deal in paper, plastic and steel. We got on the subject of scrap steel and the high prices we are seeing today. We also talked about China buying alot of scrap steel. They said that because the US doesn't make as much steel for products as we used to (using more plastics instead) that if a need for a large quantity of steel were needed (in case of a major war) The next major war won't require a large quantity of steel. that China would name their price and we would have to buy it because we simply do not have it. How real would something like this scenerio be? I'm putting all political bias to the wayside, plain and simple, are we setting ourselves up for a major screwing in the long run? They also said the grade of steel coming out of China is good, they used to have very poor steel but they're quality is far better than the past. walt |
#3
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:04:35 GMT, Jim Stewart wrote:
Walt wrote: I was talking to a couple today that own a scrap business. They deal in paper, plastic and steel. We got on the subject of scrap steel and the high prices we are seeing today. We also talked about China buying alot of scrap steel. They said that because the US doesn't make as much steel for products as we used to (using more plastics instead) that if a need for a large quantity of steel were needed (in case of a major war) The next major war won't require a large quantity of steel. Well, it may, but it had better already be fabricated into weapons before the war starts. The pace of modern high intensity combat is so rapid that there's no time to tool up and produce weapons after the fighting starts. It is highly unlikely that we'll ever have another major war like WWII where we can start the fight unprepared then tool up and produce enough weapons during the combat phase to affect the outcome. Gary |
#4
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
Gary Coffman wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:04:35 GMT, Jim Stewart wrote: Walt wrote: I was talking to a couple today that own a scrap business. They deal in paper, plastic and steel. We got on the subject of scrap steel and the high prices we are seeing today. We also talked about China buying alot of scrap steel. They said that because the US doesn't make as much steel for products as we used to (using more plastics instead) that if a need for a large quantity of steel were needed (in case of a major war) The next major war won't require a large quantity of steel. Well, it may, but it had better already be fabricated into weapons before the war starts. The pace of modern high intensity combat is so rapid that there's no time to tool up and produce weapons after the fighting starts. That was my point. I just tend to be a little less verbose than you It is highly unlikely that we'll ever have another major war like WWII where we can start the fight unprepared then tool up and produce enough weapons during the combat phase to affect the outcome. The next war will need tungsten carbide, DU, titanium, aluminum alloys, lead and brass. Lots of brass. I'd guess we have plenty of scrap steel "in the bank" in terms of mothballed ships, wrecked cars, and scrap rail that can meet the need. |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
I work in the steel industry. the company I work for is one of the largest
companies of scrap metal recycling, mills, and rebar fabricators in the country and the world. China is buying approximately 25% of all US scrap steel and they are also producing about 25% of the worlds steel and they aren't exporting very much. That drove the prices of steel in the USA sky high. this time last year, we were fabricating rebar for as little as 16 cents a pound. Right now, we are at about 40 cents a pound minimum. We don't have a shortage. there is more than enough steel in America. But, people don't like paying the price of steel right now. and it isn't just domestic steel that costs so much right now. The price is high for imported steel as well. Granted I haven't been keeping up with the politics as much as some of the salesmen in my company, but I do know that China is affecting the worlds steel economy. Brent "Jim Stewart" wrote in message s.com... Gary Coffman wrote: On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:04:35 GMT, Jim Stewart wrote: Walt wrote: I was talking to a couple today that own a scrap business. They deal in paper, plastic and steel. We got on the subject of scrap steel and the high prices we are seeing today. We also talked about China buying alot of scrap steel. They said that because the US doesn't make as much steel for products as we used to (using more plastics instead) that if a need for a large quantity of steel were needed (in case of a major war) The next major war won't require a large quantity of steel. Well, it may, but it had better already be fabricated into weapons before the war starts. The pace of modern high intensity combat is so rapid that there's no time to tool up and produce weapons after the fighting starts. That was my point. I just tend to be a little less verbose than you It is highly unlikely that we'll ever have another major war like WWII where we can start the fight unprepared then tool up and produce enough weapons during the combat phase to affect the outcome. The next war will need tungsten carbide, DU, titanium, aluminum alloys, lead and brass. Lots of brass. I'd guess we have plenty of scrap steel "in the bank" in terms of mothballed ships, wrecked cars, and scrap rail that can meet the need. |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 00:02:49 GMT, "Brent"
vaguely proposed a theory .......and in reply I say!: remove ns from my header address to reply via email China is buying approximately 25% of all US scrap steel and they are also producing about 25% of the worlds steel and they aren't exporting very much. That drove the prices of steel in the USA sky high. I beg to differ G. _Greed_ drove up the price. ************************************************** ** sorry ..........no I'm not! remove ns from my header address to reply via email Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep? |
#7
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
I recently heard about the China purchases of steel so I did a little
surfing and found a recent (Newsweek, I think it was) article on the subject. The article did acknowledge the facts listed below, but, in addition, it said that the main reason that the China purchases are a problem for us is that our (US) method of making steel has changed. It said that we used to use mostly open hearth furnaces which can use iron ore, but now we use mostly electric furnaces, that require scrap steel, instead. That's not a solution, though. I'd guess it means that costs will stay higher, but maybe it'll mean that some companies will restart open hearth steel manufacturing?? How else can the US and world market for steel products grow? Pete Stanaitis --------------- Brent wrote: I work in the steel industry. the company I work for is one of the largest companies of scrap metal recycling, mills, and rebar fabricators in the country and the world. China is buying approximately 25% of all US scrap steel and they are also producing about 25% of the worlds steel and they aren't exporting very much. That drove the prices of steel in the USA sky high. this time last year, we were fabricating rebar for as little as 16 cents a pound. Right now, we are at about 40 cents a pound minimum. We don't have a shortage. there is more than enough steel in America. But, people don't like paying the price of steel right now. and it isn't just domestic steel that costs so much right now. The price is high for imported steel as well. Granted I haven't been keeping up with the politics as much as some of the salesmen in my company, but I do know that China is affecting the worlds steel economy. Brent "Jim Stewart" wrote in message s.com... Gary Coffman wrote: On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:04:35 GMT, Jim Stewart wrote: Walt wrote: I was talking to a couple today that own a scrap business. They deal in paper, plastic and steel. We got on the subject of scrap steel and the high prices we are seeing today. We also talked about China buying alot of scrap steel. They said that because the US doesn't make as much steel for products as we used to (using more plastics instead) that if a need for a large quantity of steel were needed (in case of a major war) The next major war won't require a large quantity of steel. Well, it may, but it had better already be fabricated into weapons before the war starts. The pace of modern high intensity combat is so rapid that there's no time to tool up and produce weapons after the fighting starts. That was my point. I just tend to be a little less verbose than you It is highly unlikely that we'll ever have another major war like WWII where we can start the fight unprepared then tool up and produce enough weapons during the combat phase to affect the outcome. The next war will need tungsten carbide, DU, titanium, aluminum alloys, lead and brass. Lots of brass. I'd guess we have plenty of scrap steel "in the bank" in terms of mothballed ships, wrecked cars, and scrap rail that can meet the need. |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
"Old Nick" wrote in message
... On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 00:02:49 GMT, "Brent" vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!: remove ns from my header address to reply via email China is buying approximately 25% of all US scrap steel and they are also producing about 25% of the worlds steel and they aren't exporting very much. That drove the prices of steel in the USA sky high. I beg to differ G. _Greed_ drove up the price. Supply-and-demand pricing, Nick. It's what the market will bear. If the market is really hot, as it is right now, it's all a matter of what the market is willing and able to pay. You can call that greed, or you can call it pricing in a free market. It works both ways, so I'm inclined not to use a pejorative to describe it when it happens to be working in the selling companies' favor. When the market is glutted, they may have to unload inventories at a loss. Who is the greedy one then? Ed Huntress |
#9
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
"Pete & sheri" wrote in message
... I recently heard about the China purchases of steel so I did a little surfing and found a recent (Newsweek, I think it was) article on the subject. The article did acknowledge the facts listed below, but, in addition, it said that the main reason that the China purchases are a problem for us is that our (US) method of making steel has changed. It said that we used to use mostly open hearth furnaces which can use iron ore, but now we use mostly electric furnaces, that require scrap steel, instead. That's not a solution, though. I'd guess it means that costs will stay higher, but maybe it'll mean that some companies will restart open hearth steel manufacturing?? How else can the US and world market for steel products grow? The generic term for making steel from iron ore is "primary steelmaking." Electric-furnace minimills use scrap. That's called "secondary steelmaking." The US has lost a lot of primary steelmaking (relatively speaking) for several reasons, but we've made out better overall by focusing on secondary steelmaking, at least since the late '70s. The world is loaded with primary steelmaking capacity and a lot of it is financed by the governments of developing economies. How much of it makes sense in the US is the subject of a large and continuing debate. I used to cover the steel industry for _American Machinist_ back in the '70s, and it was just as big an issue then. As the world changes (who would have guessed, back in the '80s, that China's demand would explode so quickly?), the equation changes. Most likely, we're better off focusing on secondary steel and keeping no more primary steelmaking capacity than we can run efficiently and economically. Brent probably can give you a more detailed fix on this issue, but that's the general situation. Ed Huntress |
#10
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Pete & sheri" wrote in message ... I recently heard about the China purchases of steel so I did a little surfing and found a recent (Newsweek, I think it was) article on the subject. The article did acknowledge the facts listed below, but, in addition, it said that the main reason that the China purchases are a problem for us is that our (US) method of making steel has changed. It said that we used to use mostly open hearth furnaces which can use iron ore, but now we use mostly electric furnaces, that require scrap steel, instead. That's not a solution, though. I'd guess it means that costs will stay higher, but maybe it'll mean that some companies will restart open hearth steel manufacturing?? How else can the US and world market for steel products grow? The generic term for making steel from iron ore is "primary steelmaking." Electric-furnace minimills use scrap. That's called "secondary steelmaking." The US has lost a lot of primary steelmaking (relatively speaking) for several reasons, but we've made out better overall by focusing on secondary steelmaking, at least since the late '70s. The world is loaded with primary steelmaking capacity and a lot of it is financed by the governments of developing economies. How much of it makes sense in the US is the subject of a large and continuing debate. I used to cover the steel industry for _American Machinist_ back in the '70s, and it was just as big an issue then. As the world changes (who would have guessed, back in the '80s, that China's demand would explode so quickly?), the equation changes. Most likely, we're better off focusing on secondary steel and keeping no more primary steelmaking capacity than we can run efficiently and economically. Locally, we've lost "secondary steelmaking" as well. A minimill in West Oakland was leveled to make way for an upscale bigbox retail center. I suspect it wasn't the only one. |
#11
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
s.com... Ed Huntress wrote: I used to cover the steel industry for _American Machinist_ back in the '70s, and it was just as big an issue then. As the world changes (who would have guessed, back in the '80s, that China's demand would explode so quickly?), the equation changes. Most likely, we're better off focusing on secondary steel and keeping no more primary steelmaking capacity than we can run efficiently and economically. Locally, we've lost "secondary steelmaking" as well. A minimill in West Oakland was leveled to make way for an upscale bigbox retail center. I suspect it wasn't the only one. And there's another market force at work: "best and highest use," a fundamental principle of real estate. If they leveled a minimill to build a retail center, the retailers must be able to pay more for that land than it's worth to the minimill owners. Whether that minimill's demise is part of a net loss of capacity, I don't know. The secondary steel market in the US has been a lot more stable than the primary steel market over a 30-year average. Again, maybe Brent has these facts and figures at his fingertips. They are very easy to find on the Web. _33 Metal Producing_ magazine (which I used to work for, although not as a writer) covers the steel industry thoroughly. They probably have a Web presence. Ed Huntress |
#12
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:34:10 -0600, the renowned Pete & sheri
wrote: I recently heard about the China purchases of steel so I did a little surfing and found a recent (Newsweek, I think it was) article on the subject. The article did acknowledge the facts listed below, but, in addition, it said that the main reason that the China purchases are a problem for us is that our (US) method of making steel has changed. It said that we used to use mostly open hearth furnaces which can use iron ore, but now we use mostly electric furnaces, that require scrap steel, instead. That's not a solution, though. I'd guess it means that costs will stay higher, but maybe it'll mean that some companies will restart open hearth steel manufacturing?? How else can the US and world market for steel products grow? China alone is producing more steel than the US by more than 50%, and growing at 20%/year (said to be mostly for domestic consumption). I think India also is growing rapidly, as is South America (particularly Brazil). Europe is producing double the amount the US is, but relatively static. Growth doesn't seem to be a problem, but high costs in North America are. The US is producing less than 10% of the world's steel currently (by tons), still better than average with only 5% of the population. Some of the apparent commodity price increases don't look so bad when you look at them in terms of, say, Euros. Oil prices are pretty much stable in Euro terms, for example. Gold is dropping. An interesting development- 30 years ago a devaluation of the USD would mostly just squeeze resource suppliers, now that doesn't seem to work anymore as there are other substantial customers out there who are bidding the prices up. It's also increasing the political clout of countries like China who are becoming very good customers of resource-based economies. A truly powerful country doesn't have to throw its weight around, it can stay very quiet, and we're seeing that happen. But to put things in perspective, their entire economy only just recently surpassed that of little ol' Canada, with 40 times the population, so they have a LONG ways to go. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
#13
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
Great explanation, i didn't know any of the facts so your response was
excellent. It's funny how people think, you would think that if they were in the scrap business they would know more facts about exporting steel. I also agree that if a major war started we would be prepared firsthand. thanks guys, walt "Brent" wrote in message . .. I work in the steel industry. the company I work for is one of the largest companies of scrap metal recycling, mills, and rebar fabricators in the country and the world. China is buying approximately 25% of all US scrap steel and they are also producing about 25% of the worlds steel and they aren't exporting very much. That drove the prices of steel in the USA sky high. this time last year, we were fabricating rebar for as little as 16 cents a pound. Right now, we are at about 40 cents a pound minimum. We don't have a shortage. there is more than enough steel in America. But, people don't like paying the price of steel right now. and it isn't just domestic steel that costs so much right now. The price is high for imported steel as well. Granted I haven't been keeping up with the politics as much as some of the salesmen in my company, but I do know that China is affecting the worlds steel economy. Brent "Jim Stewart" wrote in message s.com... Gary Coffman wrote: On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:04:35 GMT, Jim Stewart wrote: Walt wrote: I was talking to a couple today that own a scrap business. They deal in paper, plastic and steel. We got on the subject of scrap steel and the high prices we are seeing today. We also talked about China buying alot of scrap steel. They said that because the US doesn't make as much steel for products as we used to (using more plastics instead) that if a need for a large quantity of steel were needed (in case of a major war) The next major war won't require a large quantity of steel. Well, it may, but it had better already be fabricated into weapons before the war starts. The pace of modern high intensity combat is so rapid that there's no time to tool up and produce weapons after the fighting starts. That was my point. I just tend to be a little less verbose than you It is highly unlikely that we'll ever have another major war like WWII where we can start the fight unprepared then tool up and produce enough weapons during the combat phase to affect the outcome. The next war will need tungsten carbide, DU, titanium, aluminum alloys, lead and brass. Lots of brass. I'd guess we have plenty of scrap steel "in the bank" in terms of mothballed ships, wrecked cars, and scrap rail that can meet the need. |
#14
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 04:47:15 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
vaguely proposed a theory .......and in reply I say!: remove ns from my header address to reply via email You can call that greed, or you can call it pricing in a free market. It works both ways, so I'm inclined not to use a pejorative to describe it when it happens to be working in the selling companies' favor. Pejorative!??? You want pejorative? China's buying steel does not force up the price. The price is forced up because people suck and give not a damn for other people! G? When the market is glutted, they may have to unload inventories at a loss. Who is the greedy one then? The buyer! I am fine with that idea! I am not always on the seller's back. Many times, the buyer is just as much a share-mongering multi-national (and there you see my _true_ colours flying, in case anyone had missed them so far G) as any seller. The rest of the time they are usually out to get as much as possible for as litle as possible. Pricing on a free market is usually greed based, and somebody usually suffers. Greed is what has driven the offshore move. And I include buyer greed as well as that of the seller. If the Seller sees a way to make bigger profits, in the short term, they go that way. I am greedy. If I can get 3 clamps for the price of one, and they still do the job or even nearly, I buy them......_even if it means U am consuming somethong that will cost me my job!_. A classic case. The US has a Mad Cow scare. Japan stops buying US beef. Australian beef producers rub their hands in what I thought was quite unholy and unashamedly public glee.....and the Aussie befeater simply pays a higher beef pricem, because _Aussie beef producers are making more money_. I think I remember that top it all off, the Japanese were not happy about buying our beef anyway, because it was not grain fed. So they would not have the beef, rahther than forego the very type of beef that is more likely to get Mad Cow. ************************************************** ** sorry ..........no I'm not! remove ns from my header address to reply via email Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep? |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
"Walt" wrote in message ... I was talking to a couple today that own a scrap business. They deal in paper, plastic and steel. We got on the subject of scrap steel and the high prices we are seeing today. We also talked about China buying alot of scrap steel. They said that because the US doesn't make as much steel for products as we used to (using more plastics instead) that if a need for a large quantity of steel were needed (in case of a major war) that China would name their price and we would have to buy it because we simply do not have it. How real would something like this scenerio be? I'm putting all political bias to the wayside, plain and simple, are we setting ourselves up for a major screwing in the long run? They also said the grade of steel coming out of China is good, they used to have very poor steel but they're quality is far better than the past. walt talking to a m8 who runs a welding supply place and it looks likely that china buying up steel scrap in enormous amounts is likely to increase prices substantially...........for instance price of mig wire looks to be going up by 30% very soon! |
#16
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
"Old Nick" wrote in message
... Pricing on a free market is usually greed based, and somebody usually suffers. Greed is what has driven the offshore move. And I include buyer greed as well as that of the seller. If the Seller sees a way to make bigger profits, in the short term, they go that way. I am greedy. If I can get 3 clamps for the price of one, and they still do the job or even nearly, I buy them......_even if it means U am consuming somethong that will cost me my job!_. Well, remember the inspirational words of Gordon Gecko, "Greed is good." I sometimes think that some of us could use a little more of it. d8-) Ed Huntress |
#17
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:36:28 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
vaguely proposed a theory .......and in reply I say!: remove ns from my header address to reply via email "Old Nick" wrote in message .. . Pricing on a free market is usually greed based, and somebody usually suffers. Greed is what has driven the offshore move. And I include buyer greed as well as that of the seller. If the Seller sees a way to make bigger profits, in the short term, they go that way. I am greedy. If I can get 3 clamps for the price of one, and they still do the job or even nearly, I buy them......_even if it means U am consuming somethong that will cost me my job!_. Well, remember the inspirational words of Gordon Gecko, "Greed is good." You think he was being made a hero when he said that? I never saw the film, so I do not know. I sometimes think that some of us could use a little more of it. d8-) Who, and why? ************************************************** ** sorry ..........no I'm not! remove ns from my header address to reply via email Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep? |
#18
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
"Old Nick" wrote in message
... On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:36:28 GMT, "Ed Huntress" vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!: remove ns from my header address to reply via email "Old Nick" wrote in message .. . Pricing on a free market is usually greed based, and somebody usually suffers. Greed is what has driven the offshore move. And I include buyer greed as well as that of the seller. If the Seller sees a way to make bigger profits, in the short term, they go that way. I am greedy. If I can get 3 clamps for the price of one, and they still do the job or even nearly, I buy them......_even if it means U am consuming somethong that will cost me my job!_. Well, remember the inspirational words of Gordon Gecko, "Greed is good." You think he was being made a hero when he said that? I never saw the film, so I do not know. The film was about the "me" generation and the new culture of greed that began in the early '80s...and which continues to this day. The author used the name "Gecko" to suggest that Gordon was a lizardly character, a greedy slimeball, and hardly a hero. I sometimes think that some of us could use a little more of it. d8-) Who, and why? A lot of people with a traditional idea of business, such as machine-shop owners, could use a dose of agressive selling. They're hungry enough but they aren't going right to the source of their hunger: the need for more sales. I'm using "greedy" in a facetious sense. What I mean is that we should be doing a better job of looking out for our real interests. We tend to be too focused on the technology and holding on to old customers rather than going after new ones. -- Ed Huntress (remove "3" from email address for email reply) |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
My understanding is that they are also paying premium prices for
taconite from up north. The low level of the Great Lakes hurt the shipping companies quite a bit last year. This year should be better with all the snow/rain we've had. They are already shipping through the Soo locks. On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:46:19 -0500, "Walt" wrote: I was talking to a couple today that own a scrap business. They deal in paper, plastic and steel. We got on the subject of scrap steel and the high prices we are seeing today. We also talked about China buying alot of scrap steel. They said that because the US doesn't make as much steel for products as we used to (using more plastics instead) that if a need for a large quantity of steel were needed (in case of a major war) that China would name their price and we would have to buy it because we simply do not have it. How real would something like this scenerio be? I'm putting all political bias to the wayside, plain and simple, are we setting ourselves up for a major screwing in the long run? They also said the grade of steel coming out of China is good, they used to have very poor steel but they're quality is far better than the past. walt |
#20
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
In article , Ed Huntress
says... The author used the name "Gecko" to suggest that Gordon was a lizardly character, a greedy slimeball, and hardly a hero. For the record, geckos are not slimy. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
#21
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
"jim rozen" wrote in message ... In article , Ed Huntress says... The author used the name "Gecko" to suggest that Gordon was a lizardly character, a greedy slimeball, and hardly a hero. For the record, geckos are not slimy. I knew someone had to say that. Not all slimeballs are actually slimy on the outside. g Ed Huntress |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
jim rozen wrote:
In article , Ed Huntress says... The author used the name "Gecko" to suggest that Gordon was a lizardly character, a greedy slimeball, and hardly a hero. For the record, geckos are not slimy. Jim Amen to that. Here in Central America (I am in Honduras at the moment) gekos are everywhere and a home with them in residence is considered a happy home. They are neat creatures and their insectivore habits are appreciated. Regards. Ken. |
#23
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 01:05:23 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
vaguely proposed a theory .......and in reply I say!: remove ns from my header address to reply via email OK. That was what I thought. Thanks. I was getting worried. The film was about the "me" generation and the new culture of greed that began in the early '80s...and which continues to this day. The author used the name "Gecko" to suggest that Gordon was a lizardly character, a greedy slimeball, and hardly a hero. I sometimes think that some of us could use a little more of it. d8-) Who, and why? A lot of people with a traditional idea of business, such as machine-shop owners, could use a dose of agressive selling. They're hungry enough but they aren't going right to the source of their hunger: the need for more sales. I'm using "greedy" in a facetious sense. What I mean is that we should be doing a better job of looking out for our real interests. We tend to be too focused on the technology and holding on to old customers rather than going after new ones. Hehe. Such as the Chinese! G ************************************************** ** sorry ..........no I'm not! remove ns from my header address to reply via email Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep? |
#24
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
On 29 Mar 2004 17:45:22 -0800, jim rozen wrote:
In article , Ed Huntress says... The author used the name "Gecko" to suggest that Gordon was a lizardly character, a greedy slimeball, and hardly a hero. For the record, geckos are not slimy. And at least one of them is reputed to work his tail off to be employee of the month. Gary |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
Gary Coffman wrote:
On 29 Mar 2004 17:45:22 -0800, jim rozen wrote: In article , Ed Huntress says... The author used the name "Gecko" to suggest that Gordon was a lizardly character, a greedy slimeball, and hardly a hero. For the record, geckos are not slimy. And at least one of them is reputed to work his tail off to be employee of the month. OTOH, they have also been known to eat their young. |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
"Jim K" wrote in message ... My understanding is that they are also paying premium prices for taconite from up north. The low level of the Great Lakes hurt the shipping companies quite a bit last year. This year should be better with all the snow/rain we've had. They are already shipping through the Soo locks. One mine on Minnesota's iron range recently restarted production of iron ore that's going directly to China. The mine had been closed for several years and the Chinese business brought a bunch of miners back to work. How bizarre is that? They're willing to ship a bunch of rocks with some iron in it halfway around the world. I suppose they can use the tailings for construction after the iron is extracted. I wonder if there will be a Buy American movement up there in a few years. Pete |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
Pete Bergstrom wrote:
"Jim K" wrote in message ... My understanding is that they are also paying premium prices for taconite from up north. The low level of the Great Lakes hurt the shipping companies quite a bit last year. This year should be better with all the snow/rain we've had. They are already shipping through the Soo locks. One mine on Minnesota's iron range recently restarted production of iron ore that's going directly to China. The mine had been closed for several years and the Chinese business brought a bunch of miners back to work. Close but no cigar. The Chinese are to get iron ore from a mine in Canada. This ore was being shipped to a US Steel mill. the Minnesota ore will replace this. It's all in shipping changes, etc. Howard |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
"Howard R Garner" wrote in message ... Pete Bergstrom wrote: "Jim K" wrote in message ... My understanding is that they are also paying premium prices for taconite from up north. The low level of the Great Lakes hurt the shipping companies quite a bit last year. This year should be better with all the snow/rain we've had. They are already shipping through the Soo locks. One mine on Minnesota's iron range recently restarted production of iron ore that's going directly to China. The mine had been closed for several years and the Chinese business brought a bunch of miners back to work. Close but no cigar. The Chinese are to get iron ore from a mine in Canada. This ore was being shipped to a US Steel mill. the Minnesota ore will replace this. It's all in shipping changes, etc. Hmm, I guess you must be a lot closer to this than I am. The articles I've been reading (Star-Tribune and Pioneer Press usually) don't specifically indicate where the ore is coming from. Going by a story in the Duluth News Tribune in December, "The 38-year-old facility includes an iron ore mine at Eveleth and taconite-pellet processing plant about 10 miles to the south in Forbes." Thanks, Pete |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
Pete Bergstrom wrote:
"Howard R Garner" wrote in message ... Pete Bergstrom wrote: "Jim K" wrote in message ... My understanding is that they are also paying premium prices for taconite from up north. The low level of the Great Lakes hurt the shipping companies quite a bit last year. This year should be better with all the snow/rain we've had. They are already shipping through the Soo locks. One mine on Minnesota's iron range recently restarted production of iron ore that's going directly to China. The mine had been closed for several years and the Chinese business brought a bunch of miners back to work. Close but no cigar. The Chinese are to get iron ore from a mine in Canada. This ore was being shipped to a US Steel mill. the Minnesota ore will replace this. It's all in shipping changes, etc. Hmm, I guess you must be a lot closer to this than I am. The articles I've been reading (Star-Tribune and Pioneer Press usually) don't specifically indicate where the ore is coming from. Going by a story in the Duluth News Tribune in December, "The 38-year-old facility includes an iron ore mine at Eveleth and taconite-pellet processing plant about 10 miles to the south in Forbes." Thanks, Pete Pete, Covered in Trains magazine in the latest issue. Howard |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
Close but no cigar. The Chinese are to get iron ore from a mine in Canada. This ore was being shipped to a US Steel mill. the Minnesota ore will replace this. The article I read said they were shipping low grade ore from Minnesota to China. It said our ore used to yield something like 70% but that high grade ore had disappeared in the early 50's and the current supply from Minnesota was around 30% yield. They are also buying up enough scrap to create a shortage and spike in the steel market with prices jumping 30-100% in the last few months. |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
Addressing the price paid for scrap: Scrap prices rose and as they
reached, say $150 per ton for steel, I started scrapping. It is hard to nail an exact number because there are different kinds of steel scrap, e.g. an electric forklift won't bring as much as punchings, and larger quantities demand higher prices. I heard from several people that scrap would reach $300 by next month and I should wait. Well, I told them that when the price of scrap is so high that people are scrapping machinery and equipment which is in working condition, it won't go much higher. The price rises to increase the supply. Once the scrap is flowing at capacity it levels off, and as demand is filled it falls. Scrap prices have just started to fall, peaking at about $200. I understand that another factor at work is that scrapyards in the northen states start moving alot of material in the spring. Paul |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
"Walt" wrote in message ...
I was talking to a couple today that own a scrap business. They deal in paper, plastic and steel. We got on the subject of scrap steel and the high prices we are seeing today. We also talked about China buying alot of scrap steel. They said that because the US doesn't make as much steel for products as we used to (using more plastics instead) that if a need for a large quantity of steel were needed (in case of a major war) that China would name their price and we would have to buy it because we simply do not have it. How real would something like this scenerio be? I'm putting all political bias to the wayside, plain and simple, are we setting ourselves up for a major screwing in the long run? They also said the grade of steel coming out of China is good, they used to have very poor steel but they're quality is far better than the past. walt This is nothing new. China and Asia, for that matter, has been buying scrap from the U.S. for decades. The funny thing about it is that we buy it back as new steel. The steel from the World Trade Center went to Malaysia. Which is a country of islamic extremist. michael |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
"Walt" wrote in message ...
I was talking to a couple today that own a scrap business. They deal in paper, plastic and steel. We got on the subject of scrap steel and the high prices we are seeing today. We also talked about China buying alot of scrap steel. They said that because the US doesn't make as much steel for products as we used to (using more plastics instead) that if a need for a large quantity of steel were needed (in case of a major war) that China would name their price and we would have to buy it because we simply do not have it. How real would something like this scenerio be? I'm putting all political bias to the wayside, plain and simple, are we setting ourselves up for a major screwing in the long run? They also said the grade of steel coming out of China is good, they used to have very poor steel but they're quality is far better than the past. walt This is nothing new. China and Asia have been buying scrap steel from the U.S. for decades. The funny thing about it is that we buy it back as new steel. The steel from the World Trade Center went to Malaysia which is a islamic extramist country. If we get into a major war what is the odds of it being with China. I say pretty good. michael |
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China is buying alot of scrap steel, will this be a problem?
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On 3 Apr 2004 12:38:49 -0800, the renowned (michael) wrote: "Walt" wrote in message ... I was talking to a couple today that own a scrap business. They deal in paper, plastic and steel. We got on the subject of scrap steel and the high prices we are seeing today. We also talked about China buying alot of scrap steel. They said that because the US doesn't make as much steel for products as we used to (using more plastics instead) that if a need for a large quantity of steel were needed (in case of a major war) that China would name their price and we would have to buy it because we simply do not have it. How real would something like this scenerio be? I'm putting all political bias to the wayside, plain and simple, are we setting ourselves up for a major screwing in the long run? They also said the grade of steel coming out of China is good, they used to have very poor steel but they're quality is far better than the past. walt This is nothing new. China and Asia, for that matter, has been buying scrap from the U.S. for decades. The funny thing about it is that we buy it back as new steel. The steel from the World Trade Center went to Malaysia. Which is a country of islamic extremist. michael Nah, Malaysia is cool. Right. There's a difference between being devout and being an extremist. We don't call Baptists extremist Christians. |
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