I need to know what tools (basic to advanced) should
be stocked in my dunebuggy/sandrail/auto fabrication shop?

Usually working with +/- 2" tubing, plate steel
and sheet metal of various thickness...

what should I have in the shop?

type of screwdrivers?
type of hammers?
type of drills?
type of welders?
type of grinders?
type of etc...?

need help to get this shop stocked correctly...

TIA,

FrOg

FrOg wrote in article
...
I need to know what tools (basic to advanced) should
be stocked in my dunebuggy/sandrail/auto fabrication shop?

Usually working with +/- 2" tubing, plate steel
and sheet metal of various thickness...

what should I have in the shop?

type of screwdrivers?
type of hammers?
type of drills?
type of welders?
type of grinders?
type of etc...?

need help to get this shop stocked correctly...

TIA,

FrOg



With no malice intended, it would appear that you do not have enough
experience to be building the type of machines in which people could be
seriously injured - or killed.

If you had worked at automotive/metal fabrication in the past, your
experience would make you more than familiar with the various hand tools
and shop equipment that is necessary to properly construct these chassis
and components.

At the very least, you should visit different automotive and non-automotive
metal fabricating shops in your area to get a handle on the sorts of things
that must be addressed to build a safe vehicle, and the tools and equipment
necessary to achieve those goals.

Your message suggests that you do not even have a good familiarity with the
sorts of hand tools required, let alone the more sophisticated power
metalworking tools such as tubing benders, welders, cutters, etc.

Before you get your shop stocked correctly with tools and equipment, you
need to get your knowledge and experience bases stocked correctly.

The correct selection of tools and equipment for the type of work your shop
does will come from that knowledge and experience.


Bob Paulin - R.A.C.E.
Race Car Chassis Setup & Dial-in Services

From: FrOg
Date: 2/15/2004 10:17 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

I need to know what tools (basic to advanced) should
be stocked in my dunebuggy/sandrail/auto fabrication shop?

Usually working with +/- 2" tubing, plate steel
and sheet metal of various thickness...

what should I have in the shop?

type of screwdrivers?
type of hammers?
type of drills?
type of welders?
type of grinders?
type of etc...?

need help to get this shop stocked correctly...

TIA,

FrOg


Sounds like an ambitious project. I have built my own sandrail and helped on
several others. We had seven rails in my family at one time.

If you are starting from scratch, I would recommend buying already built frames
and go from there. You are talking a sizable investment in machines and space
to fabricate frames.

The most important machines needed then would be welders. You could get by with
just an arc welder if you are very good. Mig, Tig, and oxy/acetylene all have a
place in that also. A plasma cutter will help. You will need grinders and
sanders. 4-1/2 and 7" hand held angle grinders/sanders. A bench grinder, belt
sander, disc sander help also.

You will need to be able to make holes. Good hand power drills and a drill
press. The drill bits will need to be good quality. A vertical mill is a big
plus as is a lathe.

On the sheet metal end, count on a foot shear, box or finger brake, hand
shears, nibbler and maybe a slip roll.

You will need jack stands, jacks, engine stand, engine hoist, chain hoist.

The list of hand tools is quite large.
Screwdrivers, pliers, metric and standard wrenches and sockets, many hammers of
different styles and weights, hacksaw, files, clamps, vises.

If you wish to keep everything square and aligned, you should be building these
on a nice flat surface. A nice large fab table or plate does the job.

You will need measuring and layout tools of many types. A tape measure won't
cut it.
I've really only touched on what is needed. It would take quite a bit of time
to get into details.

You are looking at a large investment in tools and machines if you are starting
from scratch. Buy the best you can afford. Cheap import crap will be a waste of
money and only frustrate you.

It takes time to acquire the tools to do this type of work. And there is always
one more tool to be purchased that will make life easier.

It sounds like you have a lot of homework to do if you plan on being serious
about this.

Truthfully, the best thing you can do is get a job at a shop that is doing this
type of work. Even sweeping the floor will allow you to see what tools and
skills are needed for this type of work.

Good luck.
Les

"FrOg" wrote in message
...
I need to know what tools (basic to advanced) should
be stocked in my dunebuggy/sandrail/auto fabrication shop?

Usually working with +/- 2" tubing, plate steel
and sheet metal of various thickness...

what should I have in the shop?

type of screwdrivers?
type of hammers?
type of drills?
type of welders?
type of grinders?
type of etc...?

need help to get this shop stocked correctly...

TIA,

FrOg


This is like me asking what tools I need to do brain surgery?
Some people don't have a clue.

Or... a troll!?


Lane

In article , Lane says...

This is like me asking what tools I need to do brain surgery?

Sure, ya just buy them from Sears!

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

This is like me asking what tools I need to do brain surgery?
^^^^^^^^^^
Sure, ya just buy them from Sears!
^^^^^^^^^^
Interesting you should bring that up, because I have been thinking of going
into the brain surgery business. Will I be better off working in a
hospital, or can I save money by having a store front, walk-in kind of
place. What is the best kind of operating table to get, and are there any
special kind of scalpels and stuff that I ought to have? I don't mind
spending some money, but I don't want to go out and buy a bunch of stuff
that I will have to replace after I know more about what I am doing.

Also, can anyone suggest a good place to learn brain surgery?

In article , Leo
Lichtman says...

Also, can anyone suggest a good place to learn brain surgery?

Read Craig Vertosik's book, "You're Never the Same Once the Air
Hits Your Brain."

It is indeed a real eye (er, skull) opener about neurosurgery.

How to do lumbar punctures. How to engrave an insult into
a piece of somebody's skull, and get caught doing it, too!
How to survive as a resident in a teaching hospital.

Great book.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
news
This is like me asking what tools I need to do brain surgery?
^^^^^^^^^^
Sure, ya just buy them from Sears!
^^^^^^^^^^
Interesting you should bring that up, because I have been thinking of
going
into the brain surgery business. Will I be better off working in a
hospital, or can I save money by having a store front, walk-in kind of
place. What is the best kind of operating table to get, and are there any
special kind of scalpels and stuff that I ought to have? I don't mind
spending some money, but I don't want to go out and buy a bunch of stuff
that I will have to replace after I know more about what I am doing.

Also, can anyone suggest a good place to learn brain surgery?



Practice makes perfect! Lots of practice. Be sure to discount your services
while you practice. When you get good, then you can charge the higher rates.

To save money, use exacto blades from the hobby store, just make sure to use
a new one with each patient. Hang a sign on your mailbox in front of your
house and convert an unused room into the operating room. And don't bother
with those pesky medical licenses and malpractice insurance.

Lane

Leo Lichtman wrote:
This is like me asking what tools I need to do brain surgery?
^^^^^^^^^^
Sure, ya just buy them from Sears!
^^^^^^^^^^

Also, can anyone suggest a good place to learn brain surgery?


Just start reading the rec.crafts.brainsurgery newsgroup. There's
lots of good advice over there.

Just start reading the rec.crafts.brainsurgery newsgroup. There's
lots of good advice over there.

Can't find that one. What about alt.tv.animaniacs.pinky-brain? Close
enough?

Lane

This is like me asking what tools I need to do brain surgery?
Some people don't have a clue.

Or... a troll!?


Lane


Now the fun part is that if it wasn't a troll it turned into one with ease.

Reno, Paul

Bob...I have worked around autos my whole life...my dad was a
mechanic, and I have built 3 different sand cars...restored 2
motorcycles (frame-off) and have always performed my own automotive
work...

I will be graduating from welding (MIG/TIG/ARC) school in 20 weeks and
would really like to get a business going and was just looking for
input from the group as to what they might stock a shop with given the
chance to start from scratch...

here's my wish list so far:

Dewalt Hacksaw
Tape Measure
Engineers Square
Scriber
Vernier Callipers
Protractor
Various files
6" Bench mounted Vise
C clamps & welding clamps
Hammers
sheet metal nibbler
Electric Jig-Saw & Drill
Pop rivit Gun
Pipe Bending tool
Marker Pen
20'' DISC SANDER/GRINDER
1 TON ARBOR PRESS
2 HP 10" BENCH GRINDER
HEAVY DUTY COMBINATION BELT/DISC SANDER
16 SPEED FLOOR DRILL PRESS
1 HP 7" x 12" HYDRAULIC FEED METAL CUTTING BANDSAW
10'' INDUSTRIAL CIRCULAR COLD SAW
PIPE AND TUBING NOTCHER
17'' BANDSAW
HEAVY DUTY ROLLER STAND
HEAVY DUTY GRINDER STAND WITH STORAGE TRAY
HEAVY DUTY PIPE BENDER
WHEEL CLAMP TIRE CHANGER
10 PC. COLOR CODED METRIC T-HANDLED HEX KEY SET
10 PC. COLOR CODED SAE T-HANDLED HEX KEY SET
2 PC. NUT SPLITTER SET
45 PC, METRIC TITANIUM NITRIDE COATED ALLOY STEEL TAP & DIE SET
45 PC, SAE TITANIUM NITRIDE COATED ALLOY STEEL TAP & DIE SET
1/2" PLANETARY GEAR REVERSIBLE PNEUMATIC DRILL
3/8'' REVERSIBLE AIR DRILL
3/8'' AIR ANGLE DRILL
2'' AIR ANGLE SANDER
HIGH SPEED AIR BODY SAW





With no malice intended, it would appear that you do not have enough
experience to be building the type of machines in which people could be
seriously injured - or killed.

If you had worked at automotive/metal fabrication in the past, your
experience would make you more than familiar with the various hand tools
and shop equipment that is necessary to properly construct these chassis
and components.

At the very least, you should visit different automotive and non-automotive
metal fabricating shops in your area to get a handle on the sorts of things
that must be addressed to build a safe vehicle, and the tools and equipment
necessary to achieve those goals.

Your message suggests that you do not even have a good familiarity with the
sorts of hand tools required, let alone the more sophisticated power
metalworking tools such as tubing benders, welders, cutters, etc.

Before you get your shop stocked correctly with tools and equipment, you
need to get your knowledge and experience bases stocked correctly.

The correct selection of tools and equipment for the type of work your shop
does will come from that knowledge and experience.


Bob Paulin - R.A.C.E.
Race Car Chassis Setup & Dial-in Services

I have worked around autos my whole life...my dad was a
mechanic, and I have built 3 different sand cars...restored 2
motorcycles (frame-off) and have always performed my own automotive
work...

I will be graduating from welding (MIG/TIG/ARC) school in 20 weeks and
would really like to get a business going and was just looking for
input from the group as to what they might stock a shop with given the
chance to start from scratch...

here's my wish list so far:

Dewalt Hacksaw
Tape Measure
Engineers Square
Scriber
Vernier Callipers
Protractor
Various files
6" Bench mounted Vise
C clamps & welding clamps
Hammers
sheet metal nibbler
Electric Jig-Saw & Drill
Pop rivit Gun
Pipe Bending tool
Marker Pen
20'' DISC SANDER/GRINDER
1 TON ARBOR PRESS
2 HP 10" BENCH GRINDER
HEAVY DUTY COMBINATION BELT/DISC SANDER
16 SPEED FLOOR DRILL PRESS
1 HP 7" x 12" HYDRAULIC FEED METAL CUTTING BANDSAW
10'' INDUSTRIAL CIRCULAR COLD SAW
PIPE AND TUBING NOTCHER
17'' BANDSAW
HEAVY DUTY ROLLER STAND
HEAVY DUTY GRINDER STAND WITH STORAGE TRAY
HEAVY DUTY PIPE BENDER
WHEEL CLAMP TIRE CHANGER
10 PC. COLOR CODED METRIC T-HANDLED HEX KEY SET
10 PC. COLOR CODED SAE T-HANDLED HEX KEY SET
2 PC. NUT SPLITTER SET
45 PC, METRIC TITANIUM NITRIDE COATED ALLOY STEEL TAP & DIE SET
45 PC, SAE TITANIUM NITRIDE COATED ALLOY STEEL TAP & DIE SET
1/2" PLANETARY GEAR REVERSIBLE PNEUMATIC DRILL
3/8'' REVERSIBLE AIR DRILL
3/8'' AIR ANGLE DRILL
2'' AIR ANGLE SANDER
HIGH SPEED AIR BODY SAW

I didn't notice any welders on your list. They're a definite must but I'm
sure you know that already. :-)

Do you plan to use pipe or tubing to build frames/chassis and roll cages,
etc? I ask because there's a big difference in benders for tubing vs. pipe
benders. Many people have bought pipe benders planning to use them with
tubing but it doesn't work.

And while we're wishing, I would think an auto rotisserie like the one in
the link below would be great for welding sandrail frames:

http://www.theroto2000.com/

A good place to see what's available for the type of fabrication you plan to
do is the Irvan-Smith site:

http://www.irvansmith.com

Another good source is The Eastwood Company:

http://www.eastwoodco.com

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"


"FrOg" wrote in message
...
I have worked around autos my whole life...my dad was a
mechanic, and I have built 3 different sand cars...restored 2
motorcycles (frame-off) and have always performed my own automotive
work...

I will be graduating from welding (MIG/TIG/ARC) school in 20 weeks and
would really like to get a business going and was just looking for
input from the group as to what they might stock a shop with given the
chance to start from scratch...

here's my wish list so far:

Dewalt Hacksaw
Tape Measure
Engineers Square
Scriber
Vernier Callipers
Protractor
Various files
6" Bench mounted Vise
C clamps & welding clamps
Hammers
sheet metal nibbler
Electric Jig-Saw & Drill
Pop rivit Gun
Pipe Bending tool
Marker Pen
20'' DISC SANDER/GRINDER
1 TON ARBOR PRESS
2 HP 10" BENCH GRINDER
HEAVY DUTY COMBINATION BELT/DISC SANDER
16 SPEED FLOOR DRILL PRESS
1 HP 7" x 12" HYDRAULIC FEED METAL CUTTING BANDSAW
10'' INDUSTRIAL CIRCULAR COLD SAW
PIPE AND TUBING NOTCHER
17'' BANDSAW
HEAVY DUTY ROLLER STAND
HEAVY DUTY GRINDER STAND WITH STORAGE TRAY
HEAVY DUTY PIPE BENDER
WHEEL CLAMP TIRE CHANGER
10 PC. COLOR CODED METRIC T-HANDLED HEX KEY SET
10 PC. COLOR CODED SAE T-HANDLED HEX KEY SET
2 PC. NUT SPLITTER SET
45 PC, METRIC TITANIUM NITRIDE COATED ALLOY STEEL TAP & DIE SET
45 PC, SAE TITANIUM NITRIDE COATED ALLOY STEEL TAP & DIE SET
1/2" PLANETARY GEAR REVERSIBLE PNEUMATIC DRILL
3/8'' REVERSIBLE AIR DRILL
3/8'' AIR ANGLE DRILL
2'' AIR ANGLE SANDER
HIGH SPEED AIR BODY SAW

These will be fabricated using 1.050 x 0.1 and larger round tubing
and .75 x .75 x .065 and larger square tubing for the base...are
there die for the square tube as well?

for those who don't know what a sandrail/dunebuggy is,
this link is just on example of what they a

http://www.extremebuggies.com/onshow....asp?series=51

TIA,
FrOg

These will be fabricated using 1.050 x 0.1 and larger round tubing
and .75 x .75 x .065 and larger square tubing for the base...are
there die for the square tube as well?

Yes there are dies available for square tubing for some benders but not all
and you will definitely want a tubing bender instead of a pipe bender.
They're more expensive but you don't really have much choice because the
pipe benders will make a mess of tubing. The biggest reason is that the
dies are the wrong size. One inch pipe is measured by the ID so it's ~1" ID
but the OD is more like 1.25", depending on which "schedule" it is. Tubing
is sized by the OD so the OD of 1" tubing really is 1".

Another reason the pipe benders make a mess of tubing is that the wall of
tubing is usually quite a bit thinner so it's much more likely to kink, etc.

I strongly suggest you research the matter quite a bit before making a
purchase. I could save you quite a bit of trouble and money in the long
run. A good place to start is Ernie's links page:

http://www.stagesmith.com/Metal-link...nders__Formers

The rest of his page is also a great resource for about anything
metal-related you can think of. :-)

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"


"FrOg" wrote in message
...
These will be fabricated using 1.050 x 0.1 and larger round tubing
and .75 x .75 x .065 and larger square tubing for the base...are
there die for the square tube as well?

for those who don't know what a sandrail/dunebuggy is,
this link is just on example of what they a

http://www.extremebuggies.com/onshow....asp?series=51

TIA,
FrOg

On 16 Feb 2004 14:02:20 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Leo
Lichtman says...

Also, can anyone suggest a good place to learn brain surgery?

Read Craig Vertosik's book, "You're Never the Same Once the Air
Hits Your Brain."

It is indeed a real eye (er, skull) opener about neurosurgery.

How to do lumbar punctures. How to engrave an insult into
a piece of somebody's skull, and get caught doing it, too!
How to survive as a resident in a teaching hospital.

Great book.

Jim

Ditch Medicine. Required reading for every survivalist.

Be warned..the pictures are not for the faint of heart

http://www.outdoorshub.com/Ditch_Med...873647173.html

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:34:49 GMT, Gunner
brought forth from the murky depths:

On 16 Feb 2004 14:02:20 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Leo
Lichtman says...

Also, can anyone suggest a good place to learn brain surgery?

Read Craig Vertosik's book, "You're Never the Same Once the Air
Hits Your Brain."

Note to Jim: No wonder I couldn't find it. You flubbed -both- the
title and the author's name. There was a copy in our library
after all. In case anyone else is interested:

"When the Air Hits Your Brain" by M.D. Frank T. Vertosick Jr.


Ditch Medicine. Required reading for every survivalist.

Be warned..the pictures are not for the faint of heart

http://www.outdoorshub.com/Ditch_Med...873647173.html

No gory pics at that URL. Were they in the book, Gunner?


---=====---
After all else fails, read the instructions.
---=====---
Website Design and Update http://www.diversify.com

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:32:04 GMT, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:34:49 GMT, Gunner
brought forth from the murky depths:

On 16 Feb 2004 14:02:20 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Leo
Lichtman says...

Also, can anyone suggest a good place to learn brain surgery?

Read Craig Vertosik's book, "You're Never the Same Once the Air
Hits Your Brain."

Note to Jim: No wonder I couldn't find it. You flubbed -both- the
title and the author's name. There was a copy in our library
after all. In case anyone else is interested:

"When the Air Hits Your Brain" by M.D. Frank T. Vertosick Jr.


Ditch Medicine. Required reading for every survivalist.

Be warned..the pictures are not for the faint of heart

http://www.outdoorshub.com/Ditch_Med...873647173.html

No gory pics at that URL. Were they in the book, Gunner?

Of course. Sorry for the confusion. The book is very detailed with
good b&w photos of all the procedures, from how to debride a wound to
removing a gangrenous limb, tying off the vessels and veins, , what
sort of impromptu saw to use, how to install drains in the stump, etc
etc. A very good book.

Btw..want to see what my left foot looks like at present after
dropping a 25lb chunk of 1" plate steel across all 5 toes Monday
night?

Its much better now after I popped the several golf ball sized blood
blisters. I can only count 4 different colors. Its where they blend
together that is the interesting part.

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

In article , Larry Jaques says...

Note to Jim: No wonder I couldn't find it. You flubbed -both- the
title and the author's name. There was a copy in our library
after all. In case anyone else is interested:

"When the Air Hits Your Brain" by M.D. Frank T. Vertosick Jr.

Uh oh. Busted!! That's what I get for posting without
going downstairs and actually *inspecting* the bookshelf!
Sorry for the confusion - but it is a great book. My
mom (the nurse) suggested it to me.

Ditch Medicine. Required reading for every survivalist.

Be warned..the pictures are not for the faint of heart

http://www.outdoorshub.com/Ditch_Med...873647173.html

No gory pics at that URL. Were they in the book, Gunner?

Well I sure hope so!! Otherwise it will be a waste of money.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Everyone going off on him won't help him!

Maybe he really doesn't understand that torque can tear apart a fram that an
inexperienced builder designed and fabricated.

Maybe a decent reply would be like the one to start with pre built frames,
do some repairs to them, then buy a kit frame. To see how to apply the
needed pre-stress in the frame, and welding practice?

Flaming doesn't help a newbie!

Refinish King

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Lane says...

This is like me asking what tools I need to do brain surgery?

Sure, ya just buy them from Sears!

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

These guys are bolstering their manhood:

By playing headgames with you. I built pro stock as well as pro street
frames. It takes time to learn the fundamentals. It's not as clear cut as
looking at a few and being able to build a frame though.

You have to take into consideration angles of the rear section, to not put
the stress on the driver seating area, but distribute it around the driver
area.

It would be a good idea to start with a new frame for a few cars, then a
weld together kit, just to get the idea how the tubes are formed to
distribute the torque and weight distribution.

I hope this helps and I hope no insult was taken?

Refinish King

"FrOg" wrote in message
...
I have worked around autos my whole life...my dad was a
mechanic, and I have built 3 different sand cars...restored 2
motorcycles (frame-off) and have always performed my own automotive
work...

I will be graduating from welding (MIG/TIG/ARC) school in 20 weeks and
would really like to get a business going and was just looking for
input from the group as to what they might stock a shop with given the
chance to start from scratch...

here's my wish list so far:

Dewalt Hacksaw
Tape Measure
Engineers Square
Scriber
Vernier Callipers
Protractor
Various files
6" Bench mounted Vise
C clamps & welding clamps
Hammers
sheet metal nibbler
Electric Jig-Saw & Drill
Pop rivit Gun
Pipe Bending tool
Marker Pen
20'' DISC SANDER/GRINDER
1 TON ARBOR PRESS
2 HP 10" BENCH GRINDER
HEAVY DUTY COMBINATION BELT/DISC SANDER
16 SPEED FLOOR DRILL PRESS
1 HP 7" x 12" HYDRAULIC FEED METAL CUTTING BANDSAW
10'' INDUSTRIAL CIRCULAR COLD SAW
PIPE AND TUBING NOTCHER
17'' BANDSAW
HEAVY DUTY ROLLER STAND
HEAVY DUTY GRINDER STAND WITH STORAGE TRAY
HEAVY DUTY PIPE BENDER
WHEEL CLAMP TIRE CHANGER
10 PC. COLOR CODED METRIC T-HANDLED HEX KEY SET
10 PC. COLOR CODED SAE T-HANDLED HEX KEY SET
2 PC. NUT SPLITTER SET
45 PC, METRIC TITANIUM NITRIDE COATED ALLOY STEEL TAP & DIE SET
45 PC, SAE TITANIUM NITRIDE COATED ALLOY STEEL TAP & DIE SET
1/2" PLANETARY GEAR REVERSIBLE PNEUMATIC DRILL
3/8'' REVERSIBLE AIR DRILL
3/8'' AIR ANGLE DRILL
2'' AIR ANGLE SANDER
HIGH SPEED AIR BODY SAW