I know the issue of who makes the best hand tools has been rehashed many
times here in the past (generally consisting of a list of who makes better
stuff than Sears/Craftsman), but I'm wondering whose tools would provide the
best bang for the buck. I ask because I just purchased a really nifty
rolling tool chest at Costco (I believe it's a 19 drawer unit, all ball
bearing supported, with drawer liners included and made entirely out of 304
stainless, definitely looks nice in the garage!) and want to fill it with
new tools. Can't go contaminating a new tool chest with old tools, right?
And seeing as I'm single, I don't have to justify my logic to anyone.

Craftsman has a 240-something piece tool set that looks like it'd be what I
want, and the price doesn't seem so bad for what it is... around $300 or so.
And for the types of things I do the Craftsman stuff would be sufficient
enough, even though I'd like something better... but price is definitely an
issue. Craftsman quality aside, are there any other tool sets out there
that are a better value for the cost? I haven't been too pleased with the
Husky tools I've used, and the Stanley stuff I've used seems alright but the
price never seems to be as good... oh sure, I'd love to plunk down the
change for a nice Snap-On or Mac or Matco or whatever set, but I just can't
justify that. And short of doing a successful stint on Monster Garage, I
can't see a better value around. Does anyone have any other preferred hand
tool vendors that I've overlooked? Something with a Craftsman-grade
warranty (or better), but with a suitable amount of quality for the price?
Thanks in advance for any advice!

Bryan

Yes, you've overlooked the Sandvik group's products. Their Bahco Ergo
screwdrivers can be difficult to find, but I think they are easily the best
on the market. In fact, all the Sandvik tools I've seen are of the highest
quality and I buy their products when they make a particular tool I want
before considering other manufacturers.

"The Hurdy Gurdy Man" wrote in message
...

I know the issue of who makes the best hand tools has been rehashed many
times here in the past (generally consisting of a list of who makes better
stuff than Sears/Craftsman), but I'm wondering whose tools would provide
the
best bang for the buck. I ask because I just purchased a really nifty
rolling tool chest at Costco (I believe it's a 19 drawer unit, all ball
bearing supported, with drawer liners included and made entirely out of
304
stainless, definitely looks nice in the garage!) and want to fill it with
new tools. Can't go contaminating a new tool chest with old tools, right?
And seeing as I'm single, I don't have to justify my logic to anyone.

Craftsman has a 240-something piece tool set that looks like it'd be what
I
want, and the price doesn't seem so bad for what it is... around $300 or
so.
And for the types of things I do the Craftsman stuff would be sufficient
enough, even though I'd like something better... but price is definitely
an
issue. Craftsman quality aside, are there any other tool sets out there
that are a better value for the cost? I haven't been too pleased with the
Husky tools I've used, and the Stanley stuff I've used seems alright but
the
price never seems to be as good... oh sure, I'd love to plunk down the
change for a nice Snap-On or Mac or Matco or whatever set, but I just
can't
justify that. And short of doing a successful stint on Monster Garage, I
can't see a better value around. Does anyone have any other preferred
hand
tool vendors that I've overlooked? Something with a Craftsman-grade
warranty (or better), but with a suitable amount of quality for the price?
Thanks in advance for any advice!

Bryan

I just re-read your subject line and am not sure if what I posted is what
you are looking for. I consider the best "bargain" in hand tools to be the
one that will always work for you and that you'll never want to replace. To
that end, after Sandvik Group tools, my next choice of superior tools are
those made by the Cooper Group.

"George" wrote in message
...
Yes, you've overlooked the Sandvik group's products. Their Bahco Ergo
screwdrivers can be difficult to find, but I think they are easily the
best
on the market. In fact, all the Sandvik tools I've seen are of the
highest
quality and I buy their products when they make a particular tool I want
before considering other manufacturers.

"The Hurdy Gurdy Man" wrote in message
...

I know the issue of who makes the best hand tools has been rehashed many
times here in the past (generally consisting of a list of who makes
better
stuff than Sears/Craftsman), but I'm wondering whose tools would provide
the
best bang for the buck. I ask because I just purchased a really nifty
rolling tool chest at Costco (I believe it's a 19 drawer unit, all ball
bearing supported, with drawer liners included and made entirely out of
304
stainless, definitely looks nice in the garage!) and want to fill it
with
new tools. Can't go contaminating a new tool chest with old tools,
right?
And seeing as I'm single, I don't have to justify my logic to anyone.

Craftsman has a 240-something piece tool set that looks like it'd be
what
I
want, and the price doesn't seem so bad for what it is... around $300 or
so.
And for the types of things I do the Craftsman stuff would be sufficient
enough, even though I'd like something better... but price is definitely
an
issue. Craftsman quality aside, are there any other tool sets out there
that are a better value for the cost? I haven't been too pleased with
the
Husky tools I've used, and the Stanley stuff I've used seems alright but
the
price never seems to be as good... oh sure, I'd love to plunk down the
change for a nice Snap-On or Mac or Matco or whatever set, but I just
can't
justify that. And short of doing a successful stint on Monster Garage,
I
can't see a better value around. Does anyone have any other preferred
hand
tool vendors that I've overlooked? Something with a Craftsman-grade
warranty (or better), but with a suitable amount of quality for the
price?
Thanks in advance for any advice!

Bryan

I don't know where you're at, but I've been buying my tools at Canadian
Tire. I keep an eye on their weekly fliers and it seems like every week
they have a couple of hand tools/sets on for half price. The
Mastercraft stuff seems ok, and they have a really good warranty (I've
heard from lots of people that they have a no-questions-asked exchange
policy if you have a broken Mastercraft tool and you take it back to the
store. I have yet to break anything, so I don't know first-hand).

Like you mentioned, I'd love to be able to just give the Snap-On guy a
call and tell him to hook me up with all the tools I need, but that's
not going to happen. Not anytime soon anyway. (I went through a
600 page Snap-On catalog last night and man, do they have some nice
stuff. Especially the tool boxes).

Anyway, the prices on Canadian Tire stuff seem like good "bang for the
buck". I guess that's what you were really asking, huh? This is
just MVHO and YMMV.

And congrats on the toolbox. 19 drawers! No wonder you're in the
market for some tools to fill it up!

chem

The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote:
I know the issue of who makes the best hand tools has been rehashed many
times here in the past (generally consisting of a list of who makes better
stuff than Sears/Craftsman), but I'm wondering whose tools would provide the
best bang for the buck. I ask because I just purchased a really nifty
rolling tool chest at Costco (I believe it's a 19 drawer unit, all ball
bearing supported, with drawer liners included and made entirely out of 304
stainless, definitely looks nice in the garage!) and want to fill it with
new tools. Can't go contaminating a new tool chest with old tools, right?
And seeing as I'm single, I don't have to justify my logic to anyone.

Craftsman has a 240-something piece tool set that looks like it'd be what I
want, and the price doesn't seem so bad for what it is... around $300 or so.
And for the types of things I do the Craftsman stuff would be sufficient
enough, even though I'd like something better... but price is definitely an
issue. Craftsman quality aside, are there any other tool sets out there
that are a better value for the cost? I haven't been too pleased with the
Husky tools I've used, and the Stanley stuff I've used seems alright but the
price never seems to be as good... oh sure, I'd love to plunk down the
change for a nice Snap-On or Mac or Matco or whatever set, but I just can't
justify that. And short of doing a successful stint on Monster Garage, I
can't see a better value around. Does anyone have any other preferred hand
tool vendors that I've overlooked? Something with a Craftsman-grade
warranty (or better), but with a suitable amount of quality for the price?
Thanks in advance for any advice!

Bryan

The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote in article
...

I know the issue of who makes the best hand tools has been rehashed many
times here in the past (generally consisting of a list of who makes
better
stuff than Sears/Craftsman), but I'm wondering whose tools would provide
the
best bang for the buck. I ask because I just purchased a really nifty
rolling tool chest at Costco (I believe it's a 19 drawer unit, all ball
bearing supported, with drawer liners included and made entirely out of
304
stainless, definitely looks nice in the garage!) and want to fill it with
new tools. Can't go contaminating a new tool chest with old tools,
right?
And seeing as I'm single, I don't have to justify my logic to anyone.

Craftsman has a 240-something piece tool set that looks like it'd be what
I
want, and the price doesn't seem so bad for what it is... around $300 or
so.
And for the types of things I do the Craftsman stuff would be sufficient
enough, even though I'd like something better... but price is definitely
an
issue. Craftsman quality aside, are there any other tool sets out there
that are a better value for the cost? I haven't been too pleased with
the
Husky tools I've used, and the Stanley stuff I've used seems alright but
the
price never seems to be as good... oh sure, I'd love to plunk down the
change for a nice Snap-On or Mac or Matco or whatever set, but I just
can't
justify that. And short of doing a successful stint on Monster Garage, I
can't see a better value around. Does anyone have any other preferred
hand
tool vendors that I've overlooked? Something with a Craftsman-grade
warranty (or better), but with a suitable amount of quality for the
price?
Thanks in advance for any advice!

Bryan


It is my belief that the best bargain in any sort of tool is to buy the
absolute highest quality you can afford - whether it be Yagasaki,
Craftsman, or Snap-On.

Even if you only use it a few times, the value will be there should you
decide to sell it.

I would much rather buy a used Snap-On tool, machine, or diagnostic
instrument than a near-new Kamimoto one, because I know that the Snap-On
version will still have a long life to go.

Bob Paulin - R.A.C.E.
Chassis Analysis Services

I've been very pleased with S-K tools, now owned by Facom.

They carry the same replacement guarantee as many other quality brands, hold
up very well in my experience, and are very close to Snap On in
attractiveness.

I have usually bought them when discounted at local tool dealers.

You might also look at Proto, Williams, and Armstrong. All are great tools.

Best of luck, Dave

The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote:

but I'm wondering whose tools would provide the
best bang for the buck. I ask because I just purchased a really nifty
rolling tool chest at Costco

Some of the Costco tool sets are really nice deals. They had a
Crescent tool set for about $55 that was so nice I wanted to get it
"just because." :-)

Also, check out the Great Neck line of tools. I see them at AutoZone
stores and I think they are good tools at great prices. The 24" 1/2"
drive breaker bar has come in handy from time to time. :-) I haven't
priced it recently but it is around $15. If I ever need a "onesy"
wrench, I get Great Neck.

The Home Depot Husky line has pretty much taken the place of Craftsman
for me. I did recently wander a Sears and it looks like it is
becoming a good deal again. I saw a set of Porter Cable impact
sockets for $20 at Lowes that seemed like a good deal.

I own and appreciate top quality tools but I also have tools to loan
out and where theft or abuse are likely. Oh yeah, and for places
where they may go "splash" and then deep. :-)

Jay

Be careful of the Craftsman sets. Typically they'll contains lots of allen
wrenches and 1/4" and 3/8" sockets. They'll contain very few of the more
useful 1/2" sockets, and of the few they do contain, they'll have 12 points
instead of 6 points--a recipe for rounding off fasteners.

If you really must have Craftsman, you'll be better served, in my opinion,
buying individual tools rather than their giant sets.

"The Hurdy Gurdy Man" wrote in message
...

I know the issue of who makes the best hand tools has been rehashed many
times here in the past (generally consisting of a list of who makes better
stuff than Sears/Craftsman), but I'm wondering whose tools would provide
the
best bang for the buck. I ask because I just purchased a really nifty
rolling tool chest at Costco (I believe it's a 19 drawer unit, all ball
bearing supported, with drawer liners included and made entirely out of
304
stainless, definitely looks nice in the garage!) and want to fill it with
new tools. Can't go contaminating a new tool chest with old tools, right?
And seeing as I'm single, I don't have to justify my logic to anyone.

Craftsman has a 240-something piece tool set that looks like it'd be what
I
want, and the price doesn't seem so bad for what it is... around $300 or
so.
And for the types of things I do the Craftsman stuff would be sufficient
enough, even though I'd like something better... but price is definitely
an
issue. Craftsman quality aside, are there any other tool sets out there
that are a better value for the cost? I haven't been too pleased with the
Husky tools I've used, and the Stanley stuff I've used seems alright but
the
price never seems to be as good... oh sure, I'd love to plunk down the
change for a nice Snap-On or Mac or Matco or whatever set, but I just
can't
justify that. And short of doing a successful stint on Monster Garage, I
can't see a better value around. Does anyone have any other preferred
hand
tool vendors that I've overlooked? Something with a Craftsman-grade
warranty (or better), but with a suitable amount of quality for the price?
Thanks in advance for any advice!

Bryan

In article ,
The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote:

I know the issue of who makes the best hand tools has been rehashed many
times here in the past (generally consisting of a list of who makes better
stuff than Sears/Craftsman), but I'm wondering whose tools would provide the
best bang for the buck. I ask because I just purchased a really nifty
rolling tool chest at Costco (I believe it's a 19 drawer unit, all ball
bearing supported, with drawer liners included and made entirely out of 304
stainless, definitely looks nice in the garage!) and want to fill it with
new tools. Can't go contaminating a new tool chest with old tools, right?

Some of my most used tools were old stuff picked up cheap at garage
sales and bent/modified to what I really need. I can take a dozen 1/2"
wrenches to a job and none of them will fit and I wind up using a 13mm
obstruction wrench.

BTW, anyone know where to get a 1/2 x 1/2 obstruction box wrench? Thats
i/2 b ox at each end, at different angles. Some nuts are a real pain to
get to.

--
Committees of Correspondence web page;
free men own guns - slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

Nick Hull wrote in message ...

BTW, anyone know where to get a 1/2 x 1/2 obstruction box wrench? Thats
i/2 b ox at each end, at different angles. Some nuts are a real pain to
get to.

13mm is close enough to 1/2" for most purposes, you said you had one
of those. I've found a set of flarenut crowfoot wrenchs are really
handy for other stuff than flarenuts. Or you can get some orphan box
ends and an O/A rosebud and bend your own custom wrenches. The
crowfoots have pretty much eliminated the need for that for the stuff
I work on.

Stan

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:21:24 -0400, "George" wrote:
I just re-read your subject line and am not sure if what I posted is what
you are looking for. I consider the best "bargain" in hand tools to be the
one that will always work for you and that you'll never want to replace. To
that end, after Sandvik Group tools, my next choice of superior tools are
those made by the Cooper Group.

While a number of the companies aquired by the Cooper Group
once made fine tools, not many seem to still do so after being
gobbled up by the conglomerate. The majority of their profits
seem to have been used by the conglomerate for further
acquisitions rather than being plowed back into the enterprises
to maintain quality standards.

Gary

In article ,
says...
On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:21:24 -0400, "George" wrote:
I just re-read your subject line and am not sure if what I posted is what
you are looking for. I consider the best "bargain" in hand tools to be the
one that will always work for you and that you'll never want to replace. To
that end, after Sandvik Group tools, my next choice of superior tools are
those made by the Cooper Group.

While a number of the companies aquired by the Cooper Group
once made fine tools, not many seem to still do so after being
gobbled up by the conglomerate. The majority of their profits
seem to have been used by the conglomerate for further
acquisitions rather than being plowed back into the enterprises
to maintain quality standards.

Gary


Same experience here. I bought a pair of Diamond needle
nose pliers and the tips did not line up. I sent them back
to the manufacturer and they replaced them with a pair with
exactly the same problem. By looking at the new pair, it
was obvious the two halves were finish ground before
assembly. Probably fine for a pair of heavier pliers, but
no good with such a fine tip.

A hand picked $5 Chinese pair out of the bin at Sears are
much nicer. The worst pair in the bin of Chinese pliers was
better than the Diamond pliers.

Ned Simmons

That is sad to hear...I bought most of my hand tools a few years ago and was
surprised to see that most of the brands of tools that I liked were owned by
the Cooper Group...I had no idea it was a recent acquisition and that
quality had suffered. At least that is NOT the case with the Sandvik Group
tools.

"Gary Coffman" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:21:24 -0400, "George" wrote:
I just re-read your subject line and am not sure if what I posted is what
you are looking for. I consider the best "bargain" in hand tools to be
the
one that will always work for you and that you'll never want to replace.
To
that end, after Sandvik Group tools, my next choice of superior tools are
those made by the Cooper Group.

While a number of the companies aquired by the Cooper Group
once made fine tools, not many seem to still do so after being
gobbled up by the conglomerate. The majority of their profits
seem to have been used by the conglomerate for further
acquisitions rather than being plowed back into the enterprises
to maintain quality standards.

Gary

On pliers and cutters (at least smaller ones), if you want high quality it
is Sandvik #1 and Exact #2. These products may be smaller than what you
have in mind and are very popular for electronics work...also, jewelers like
them. If you want to cut #4 copper wire, don't even bother looking at the
Sandvik catalog.

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:21:24 -0400, "George"
wrote:
I just re-read your subject line and am not sure if what I posted is
what
you are looking for. I consider the best "bargain" in hand tools to be
the
one that will always work for you and that you'll never want to
replace. To
that end, after Sandvik Group tools, my next choice of superior tools
are
those made by the Cooper Group.

While a number of the companies aquired by the Cooper Group
once made fine tools, not many seem to still do so after being
gobbled up by the conglomerate. The majority of their profits
seem to have been used by the conglomerate for further
acquisitions rather than being plowed back into the enterprises
to maintain quality standards.

Gary


Same experience here. I bought a pair of Diamond needle
nose pliers and the tips did not line up. I sent them back
to the manufacturer and they replaced them with a pair with
exactly the same problem. By looking at the new pair, it
was obvious the two halves were finish ground before
assembly. Probably fine for a pair of heavier pliers, but
no good with such a fine tip.

A hand picked $5 Chinese pair out of the bin at Sears are
much nicer. The worst pair in the bin of Chinese pliers was
better than the Diamond pliers.

Ned Simmons

Not my experience, George, I'm sorry to say. I bought a pair of
Sandvik-Linstrom (? spelling) angle side-cutters for my 'travelling'
tool kit. They are junk. The jaws don't meet because they're further
apart at the front than at the rear, and furthermore the cutting edges
are ground on two slightly different planes. I put some time in to
correct all of this and found that they are made out of something one
step up from Chinese steel - it's terrible. My old Bahco pair (fiercely
protected, and only used for cutting small electronic component leads)
are over ten years old and are still like new - and I use them every day
of the year. If I could find another pair I'd snap them up instantly.

Roger

George wrote:

That is sad to hear...I bought most of my hand tools a few years ago and was
surprised to see that most of the brands of tools that I liked were owned by
the Cooper Group...I had no idea it was a recent acquisition and that
quality had suffered. At least that is NOT the case with the Sandvik Group
tools.

"Gary Coffman" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:21:24 -0400, "George" wrote:

I just re-read your subject line and am not sure if what I posted is what
you are looking for. I consider the best "bargain" in hand tools to be

the

one that will always work for you and that you'll never want to replace.

To

that end, after Sandvik Group tools, my next choice of superior tools are
those made by the Cooper Group.

While a number of the companies aquired by the Cooper Group
once made fine tools, not many seem to still do so after being
gobbled up by the conglomerate. The majority of their profits
seem to have been used by the conglomerate for further
acquisitions rather than being plowed back into the enterprises
to maintain quality standards.

Gary

I hope that is an isolated incident and/or a counterfeit tool. I got my
Sandvik/Lindstrom/Bahco tools within the last five years and they are all
great. (Of course, one never knows how long the distributor may have had
them.)

"Roger Head" wrote in message
...
Not my experience, George, I'm sorry to say. I bought a pair of
Sandvik-Linstrom (? spelling) angle side-cutters for my 'travelling'
tool kit. They are junk. The jaws don't meet because they're further
apart at the front than at the rear, and furthermore the cutting edges
are ground on two slightly different planes. I put some time in to
correct all of this and found that they are made out of something one
step up from Chinese steel - it's terrible. My old Bahco pair (fiercely
protected, and only used for cutting small electronic component leads)
are over ten years old and are still like new - and I use them every day
of the year. If I could find another pair I'd snap them up instantly.

Roger

George wrote:

That is sad to hear...I bought most of my hand tools a few years ago and
was
surprised to see that most of the brands of tools that I liked were
owned by
the Cooper Group...I had no idea it was a recent acquisition and that
quality had suffered. At least that is NOT the case with the Sandvik
Group
tools.

"Gary Coffman" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:21:24 -0400, "George"
wrote:

I just re-read your subject line and am not sure if what I posted is
what
you are looking for. I consider the best "bargain" in hand tools to be

the

one that will always work for you and that you'll never want to
replace.

To

that end, after Sandvik Group tools, my next choice of superior tools
are
those made by the Cooper Group.

While a number of the companies aquired by the Cooper Group
once made fine tools, not many seem to still do so after being
gobbled up by the conglomerate. The majority of their profits
seem to have been used by the conglomerate for further
acquisitions rather than being plowed back into the enterprises
to maintain quality standards.

Gary

JJ wrote:

Some of the Costco tool sets are really nice deals. They had a
Crescent tool set for about $55 that was so nice I wanted to get it
"just because." :-)

How's the quality on that Crescent tool set? They've to a nearly 300 piece
"automotive mechanics" set for around $200 that is exactly the kind of thing
I'm looking for, but with no demo model out I can't actually hold the tools
in my hand and determine the quality on them... there's a smaller set in a
plastic case also being sold, and the wrenches it includes look a little
skimpy to me... looks can be deceiving, though. If it's all quality stuff,
though, I might just go that route. I don't tend to break tools, even the
really crappy ones in the $1 bin from Pep Boys, so even without the "break
'em all you want" sort of Craftsman guarantee behind them I'd be good with
this set assuming it's a quality product.

Bryan

Their old tools were very good! I have my fathers old Crescent adjustable
wrench. It was made in the 1930s, and is still in good shape. It has been
used a lot!

Steve R.


"The Hurdy Gurdy Man" wrote in message
...
JJ wrote:

Some of the Costco tool sets are really nice deals. They had a
Crescent tool set for about $55 that was so nice I wanted to get it
"just because." :-)

How's the quality on that Crescent tool set? They've to a nearly 300
piece
"automotive mechanics" set for around $200 that is exactly the kind of
thing
I'm looking for, but with no demo model out I can't actually hold the
tools
in my hand and determine the quality on them... there's a smaller set in a
plastic case also being sold, and the wrenches it includes look a little
skimpy to me... looks can be deceiving, though. If it's all quality
stuff,
though, I might just go that route. I don't tend to break tools, even the
really crappy ones in the $1 bin from Pep Boys, so even without the "break
'em all you want" sort of Craftsman guarantee behind them I'd be good with
this set assuming it's a quality product.

Bryan

The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote:

JJ wrote:
Some of the Costco tool sets are really nice deals. They had a
Crescent tool set for about $55 that was so nice I wanted to get it
"just because." :-)

How's the quality on that Crescent tool set?

I didn't buy it so I can't say for sure. I was mostly eyeballing it
for work - some of the work groups need a set of handtools and it
looked like a clean way of doing it. The problem with sets nowadays
for me is I usually just need to replace a couple of tools or am
looking for a specialized one. So if I buy a set, most of it just
stacks up in the redundant/backup section on a shelf or in a bin

They've to a nearly 300 piece
"automotive mechanics" set for around $200 that is exactly the kind of thing
I'm looking for, but with no demo model out I can't actually hold the tools
in my hand and determine the quality on them...

I wonder what would happen if you asked a Costco employee you'd like
to open one up? IMHO Costco is pretty accomodating and has an
excellent return policy.

I've also been very happy with the quality of things at Costco.
If you are going to use the tools hard everyday, hey maybe you won't
be happy a couple of years from now.

I picked up a set of pliers/cutters for $17 at Costco - it had 6 or 7
different tools - "regular," lineman, channel lock, long nose,
cutters, etc. Less than $3 a tool - and the quality was very good -
nice finish/jaw alignment and spring loaded so the jaws move apart.
Un-effing believable. I really just needed a lineman plier/cutter.

there's a smaller set in a plastic case also being sold, and the wrenches it includes look a little
skimpy to me... looks can be deceiving, though.

Not sure what you mean by "skimpy" that the tools looked weak or that
there weren't that many of them? This one could be the $55 set I
mentioned above.

Jay