Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Tom Gardner
 
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Default Old tools and machines

Interesting post! Interesting philosophy! I too have a love for old
tooling...not by choice! I have at least one machine that is in use 40
hours per week that was built in the late 1800's. (Every moving part has
been replaced numerous times and I cut my teeth pouring babitt.) It sits
right next to a computer-controled machine.

Now to my question. How do we take care of these antique or semi-antique
tools in he best possible way?


Use them!

It sometimes happen that we find tools and machinery that we suspect are
very old – say 100 years or older. It might sound a little bit over the
top but when we take good care of such a tool we do our bit to preserve
a piece of industrial history. I believe we hobby machinists have a
responsibility here when we get our hands on really old stuff.


I'm preserving industrial history, I think my overhead shafts are
strengthining my roof supports.


Are you aware of any museum or similar institution giving advice on how
to preserve old tools and machines without damaging their historical
value? Would not this be a good idea for an article in “The Home Shop
Machinist” or “Machinist's Workshop”? Perhaps some representative from a
museum could share their experience and tips.


I had a group from a local historical society come through an google ove rmy
old stuff citing the historic significance, but balked when I offered to
sell them stuff or even donate it if they would get it out.

When you get your hands on an old rusty piece of cast machinery it is
very tempting to sand blast the entire shebang, paint it and get it back
to a finish it never had when it was new. Is this really the right way
of tackling the problem? Perhaps a piece of the old paint should be left
in a less visible place? Is it right to remove all traces of former
activity – make a new wooden handle removing the old one with traces of
generations of ware and patina?


In contrast, my philosophy is different 'cuz I've been raised in an "antique
shop", I want new stuff and when the paint gets chipped, throw it away and
get new new stuff. Unless something is usefull or superior...scrap it!



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steamer
 
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Default Old tools and machines

--FWIW there's a museum newsgroup that covers some of this; I
think it's an alt. ...

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : California: "The crap magnet
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : in America's crankcase".
http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---
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Alan Moore
 
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Default Old tools and machines

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 06:11:48 +0200, Ulf B wrote:

Tom Gardner wrote:

Use them!


Could not agree with you more! The absolutely best way to preserve old
tools and machines is to use them and keep them in working order.
Interest in and use of old tools does not exclude modern equipment – I
spend my day working with ProEngineer for example.

The problem arises when you have to repair and recondition the old
machines. How do you go about that without destroying historical and
monetary value?


There isn't a lot of monetary value in these machines you're thinking
of. They were produced in industrial quantities, and, so far, there
aren't any collectors to bid up the price on them.

If you have an antique piece of furniture for example you can easily
destroy most of the value by restoring it in the wrong way. It can go
from 10000 USD to 100 in no time. Few people realize that the same goes
for old tools but to a lesser extent.


A much lesser extent. Look at the relative size of the community
collecting and displaying antique furniture vs that for antique tools.

If you can preserve the value of these old goodies at the same time as
you preserve a small piece of industrial history I think this is a good
thing.


If you've been fortunate enough to find an 1800's machine with
more-or-less intact original finish and in working condition, by all
means do what you can to maintain it. If, on the other hand, all you
have is a bit of the original paint left in a sheltered corner --
well, there might be some virtue to painting over it as opposed to
removing it before repainting, so that some collector someday can
determine what the original finish was, but other than that, if you're
going to use it as a machine, you have to put it, and keep it, in a
useable condition. That may mean refinishing, replacing parts,
scraping...

Al Moore
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steamer
 
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Default Old tools and machines

--I think it comes down to a choice of 'living' or 'dead' history;
i.e. if you intend to keep using the machines it's OK to remove the rust,
pound out the dings, re-babbit the bearings, replace the belts, etc; i.e.
address all the issues that would affect accuracy and leave it at that. If
you intend to sell it you wipe off the dust and that's that.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : California: "The crap magnet
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : in America's crankcase".
http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---
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Ulf B
 
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Default Old tools and machines

Fdmorrison wrote:

The finish is important, but it's not the only history that the
old devices offer for preservation.
Frank Morrison



Absolutely! I got an old misused treadle lathe some time ago. The slots
in the faceplate casting were rectangular with knife sharp corners.
Obviously this was designed before stress concentrations and fatigue was
common knowledge in the engineering society. The faceplate had broken
with the crack emerging from one of these sharp corners. Trying to save
it someone obviously left it with a blacksmith who forged a ring around
the faceplate. No welding of the ring it was forged together. Today when
we run our lathes at much higher speeds this would not have worked but
on a treadle lathe it obviously did.

Another thing that caught my eye was that all centres (tailstock,
treadle, and headstock) were 90 degrees and not 60 as we are used to today.

I agree there are no astronomical values in old machines but if you find
an ornamental lathe fully equipped – the chance is probably less than 1
in a million – then be sure to take care of it. It might have both a
historical and a big monetary value.
http://members.ttlc.net/~lrpw/OrnamentalLathe/lathe.htm

/Ulf B




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