Ignoramus23984 wrote:
OK... I think that I have the answer... I have a 8x4 wooden
board/member. If I place one end of it in the middle of my tailgate,
and the other on the ground, it becomes a relatively secure slide for
those 152 lbs devices. There is about 10-12" drop from the end of the
tailgate to the board, but, I think, I should be able to handle that
easily. Lowering that thing to the ground is what is troublesome.

The device is similar to this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7591573234

i

Hi Iggy:

Is there any way to suspend from an overhead point in the garage? If
so this can be the faster, safer and cheaper route to go. Heck. it's
only 150# and almost anything is sturdy enough to handle the weight
without extra bracing. If you weigh at least 150# just give it a try.

dennis
in nca

On 3 Mar 2006 09:11:14 -0800, "rigger" wrote:

Is there any way to suspend from an overhead point in the garage?

Of course, my GF does this to me all the time, while she whips my lil
fanny.

wrote in message
news
On 3 Mar 2006 09:11:14 -0800, "rigger" wrote:

Is there any way to suspend from an overhead point in the garage?

Of course, my GF does this to me all the time, while she whips my lil
fanny.

check out www.bungeesex.com

rigger wrote:
Ignoramus23984 wrote:
OK... I think that I have the answer... I have a 8x4 wooden
board/member. If I place one end of it in the

Is there any way to suspend from an overhead point in the garage? If
so this can be the faster, safer and cheaper route to go. Heck. it's
only 150# and almost anything is sturdy enough to handle the weight
without extra bracing. If you weigh at least 150# just give it a try.

dennis
in nca

Woops. Just read the other 51 posts.
First, the 150 is not much. When I unloaded my 150# anvil last year I
picked it off and set it down, by hand, with no problem (and I'm
retired, by the way). However, because of the dimensions of your piece
I wouldn't try it that way. You say it's too much hassle to hang a
"fall" but what about one of those little 500# or 1000# cap. jobs from
HF? Or one of those little rigs used for dressing game?
I wouldn't even use those however (even though I have a couple). I'd
only use about 3 turns of suitable line (heavy nylon, 1/2" or so)
around the overhead support and let the friction control the decent.
Should only take a couple of minutes.

dennis
in nca

"rigger" wrote in message
ups.com...

Ignoramus23984 wrote:
OK... I think that I have the answer... I have a 8x4 wooden
board/member. If I place one end of it in the middle of my tailgate,
and the other on the ground, it becomes a relatively secure slide for
those 152 lbs devices. There is about 10-12" drop from the end of the
tailgate to the board, but, I think, I should be able to handle that
easily. Lowering that thing to the ground is what is troublesome.

The device is similar to this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7591573234

i

Hi Iggy:

Is there any way to suspend from an overhead point in the garage? If
so this can be the faster, safer and cheaper route to go. Heck. it's
only 150# and almost anything is sturdy enough to handle the weight
without extra bracing. If you weigh at least 150# just give it a try.

dennis
in nca


As a rigger, I am surprised you would suggest or condone this. Ceiling
ratings in garages are usually rated at 10# per square foot, and yes, you
can put a 4 by on top of the rafters perpendicular.

It may work. It may not. If it does not, the results can be catastrophic.
At the least, it will probably stress the roof, and may cause some of the
drywall nails/screws/mud to pop. Or a tape seam to split.

I would suggest getting some old timbers, either 4x4 or larger, building a
temporary frame, and lifting with a come-along. All you have to do is lift
it one inch and drive out. Think simple.

A ramp would be quick and easy, too. A sheet of 3/4" plywood with eight or
ten 2x4 stiffeners underneath cut at an angle to meet the plywood.

If you do try the garage thing, keep us posted.

Steve

On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:28:07 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus16172 quickly quoth:

Yes, but that means at least an hour of unloading. These things do not
have a lifting eye, so, it means using a lot of stuff to just get them
suspended, then a lot of truck back and forth driving, untying
etc. With a ramp, I think that I can be done in 15 minutes.

Hey, stitch together some nylon harnesses from 1" nylon strapping, Ig.
Use a large ring at the top and make a 3-way harness which will fit
the units, then clip the 4th strap to the ring via a clip or just tie
it on. It'd take half an hour to measure, cut, stitch (with fishing
line or good nylon thread. SWMBO surely has some big needles and will
help.) Look at toddler's swingsets for the basic idea.

Someone also mentioned a hand truck. With the tailgate let down, one
of the pneumatic-tired trucks could work easily. Bungee the unit to
the hand truck and roll it off the end. The tires will absorb the drop
as you physically lower it to the ground.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
The more we gripe, * http://www.diversify.com/stees.html
the longer God makes us live. * Graphic Design - Humorous T-shirts

Steve B wrote:
"rigger" wrote in message

Hi Iggy:

Is there any way to suspend from an overhead point in the garage? If
so this can be the faster, safer and cheaper route to go. Heck. it's
only 150# and almost anything is sturdy enough to handle the weight
without extra bracing. If you weigh at least 150# just give it a try.

dennis
in nca


As a rigger, I am surprised you would suggest or condone this. Ceiling
ratings in garages are usually rated at 10# per square foot, and yes, you
can put a 4 by on top of the rafters perpendicular.

First of all Steve I was a rigger from '63 to about '76 so if there
have been newer developments I may not be aware of them. I moved on to
other aspects of the machinery industry at that time.

That being said I'm sure you know next to nothing about lifting and
moving machinery. I'd be willing also to guess you have no practical
experience in any of the construction trades either. How about this:
Go into your garage and try it before you offer any more criticism.
Perhaps you can then let us know your experiences, as I have done and I
weigh somewhat more than 150#.

It may work. It may not. If it does not, the results can be catastrophic.
At the least, it will probably stress the roof, and may cause some of the
drywall nails/screws/mud to pop. Or a tape seam to split.

Again, your lack of experience is glaring.

I would suggest getting some old timbers, either 4x4 or larger, building a
temporary frame, and lifting with a come-along. All you have to do is lift
it one inch and drive out. Think simple.

What you suggest is not simple.

A ramp would be quick and easy, too. A sheet of 3/4" plywood with eight or
ten 2x4 stiffeners underneath cut at an angle to meet the plywood.

Let me explain something to you Steve and to anyone else who may be
interested.
While spending 13 years moving machinery non-stop I managed to learn a
few things. Because I enjoy lurking on this group and learning,
learning, learning about metalworking I'm happy to contribute what I
can.

The ideas I offer this group are based on experience, not conjecture.
I also take into account the differences in members ages and physical
size. When you supervise crews of riggers this is what you must do to
insure safety. I deliberately do not suggest moves which are
inherently dangerous as you'd see if you'd read earlier posts by me on
these subjects.

If others have ideas that sound workable and safe you'll never find me
denigrating them because I realize others may or may not have the self
confidence to try other, less complex methods. And besides some times
it's enjoyable to come up with elegant solutions.

If you do try the garage thing, keep us posted.

In order to contribute to this thread how about trying the experiment
I've done. My test was in the center of a 2x4, on edge, between the
overhead door and the center of the garage. The 2x4 was supported near
the door and had bracing attached to the roof trusses 12 feet away, I
was in the center of this 12' span. This a garage built in the mid
'70s and in good condition. When I suspended myself at this point (and
I chose the 2x4 with the most visible "checking") one tiny creak was
the only negative result and when I hauled myself up and down and swung
on the rope no further signs of stress were evident.

The reason for not resting another 2x4 (or similar) across 2 or more
rafters is because it will tend to roll like a wheel when you try to
lower the weight thus loosing the mechanical advantage you have from
friction. Besides on a weight this low you don't need to complicate
the issue. The other reason I didn't suggest this is because I don't
like the idea of driving nails through the cross piece into the rafters
degrading (I believe) the integrity of the rafters. If I'm way off on
this it would be nice if someone lets me know.

If you do perform this experiment please let us know the results.

dennis
in nca

Ignoramus16172 wrote:
On 3 Mar 2006 12:11:26 -0800, rigger wrote:

Steve B wrote:
"rigger" wrote in message

I do not want to get into a ****ing match between you guys, but I have
a chain hoist suspended on rafters, with a 4x6 across the rafters. I
lifted stuff up to 600 lbs with that one. This setup is not too far
from a supporting wall, it is not in the middle of the garage. That
adds some strength to it. It would not even creak.

i


Sounds like a good setup Iggy. I guess my experiences rigging and
insistance on the safety of my crews made me overreact to Steve's
offhand comments.

Sorry Steve, I guess I may have been a little harsh.

dennis
in nca

"rigger" wrote

WHOLE BUNCHA STUFF SNIPPED

I have worked in the trades. I was a commercial diver. I was a certified
crane operator on drilling platforms in the Gulf of Mexico. I worked
assembling and disassembling derricks. I was a steel erection contractor in
the State of Nevada for nine years.

All required rigging knowledge.

I was certified by Offshore Petroleum Institute, the regulatory agency at
that time. I have attended many inhouse training programs and union held
classes on rigging that were recognized and sanctioned by OSHA.

I do know one or two things:

I have enough experience to know that if you try to lift things with rafter
trusses, it will work, or if will fail.

I know that if you ask a structural engineer if it will work, they will
simply tell you it is a bad idea.

I know if you go by the book, lifting by attaching to rafters is a no no.
Especially when they are probably 2 x 4s.

I know that there are about ten thousand better ways to make this lift
safely.

Like I said, hook it up. Lift it up. It will either succeed or fail. I
have made many lifts and procedures that were out of the bounds of what it
said in the book, and they worked.

Just watch from a safe position. Cause sometimes they work and sometimes
they don't. And that even goes for things you do the right way.

Whatever anyone does in the privacy of their own garage don't affect my
life.

Steve

"rigger" wrote

I guess my experiences rigging and
insistance on the safety of my crews made me overreact to Steve's
offhand comments.

Sorry Steve, I guess I may have been a little harsh.

dennis
in nca


I thought I just said that putting a beam over the rafters was a good idea.
I thought I said that it might cause some distortion, but still hold.

I insisted on safety practices from all of my crews. Never had a man hurt
badly, and never dropped anything big or important. (Biggest lift, 28,000#)
I think lifting with rafters is a bad idea, yet I would do it if I could
spread the load over more than two rafters.

MAJOR point: 150# is not a lot when spread out. More than that, I believe
would start to become marginal and dangerous. In that case, I would still
do it, but use some vertical shoring under horizontal supports with screw or
hydraulic jacks, and then I would do it confidently.

Just me. What you do after you close your garage door is okay with me.

Steve

"Ignoramus16172" wrote in message
.. .
Steve, I think that you are right about 2x4 rafters. The only thing
that I would hang on 2x4 rafters is myself if I wanted to commit
suicide -- and even that only if I did not gain major weight.

My rafters, if I recall correctly, are 2x7. There is a 2x6 log on top
of them and it is slightly concave, so it distributes the weight
nicely, from farthest rafters to the center ones as load
increases. Plus, this log is only about 6 feet away from the
supporting wall. And even with all that, I would not go beyond 1,000
lbs. I tried 600 lbs and everything was fine.

i


Iggy and everyone:

I think maybe I am overthinking this a bit, and thinking of worse case
scenarios.

Your statement that your rafters are 2x7 makes the equation much more
possible. Lots stronger. But, you have to admit, when you go to buy
lumber, there are some with knots so big you can break them just by tossing
them on the cart. You may have a rafter like that, and failure usually goes
with a domino effect.

IF you are considering doing this in your garage on a regular basis, just
make something as simple as two Ts to give you some added vertical support.
Spread them a little wider than your truck. Use 4x4. Get some concrete
screw jacks for the verticals if you can find them. If not, use 4x4s with a
2 ton bottle jack on top between the two pieces of the T. Pump it up snug,
but not enough to make the ceiling lift. You will add lots and lots of
strength.

Now, the important part. Set a limit. I would say you could lift a few
hundred pounds with that one.

But, you are a welder now with advancing skills. Isn't it time you made
something out of stout metal that you can either mount permanently or roll
around, and KNOW that when you have something to load or unload that you
will be doing it with a safety factor of 3? Batta bing, Batta bang, Loaded!
No stress, no worry. An I beam on top with a Dayton dolly wheel setup will
let you lift the load and roll it for a distance to load or unload your
truck without having to drive in and out under it. Scrap steel is cheap in
most places, and available. The dolly wheels and a decent hoist should cost
you $2-300.

Point is, do your best to do it safely, and know when you are walking a
fence safety wise, you could just fall on your head.

I like to know that I have things braced up or rigged so that it will hold
3x what I am lifting.

Steve

Ignoramus16172 wrote:
On 3 Mar 2006 12:48:39 -0800, rigger wrote:

Ignoramus16172 wrote:
On 3 Mar 2006 12:11:26 -0800, rigger wrote:

Steve B wrote:
"rigger" wrote in message

I do not want to get into a ****ing match between you guys, but I have
a chain hoist suspended on rafters, with a 4x6 across the rafters. I
lifted stuff up to 600 lbs with that one. This setup is not too far
from a supporting wall, it is not in the middle of the garage. That
adds some strength to it. It would not even creak.

i


Sounds like a good setup Iggy.


here it is

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/ChainHoist/

i

Slick.

dennis
in nca

Steve B wrote:
"rigger" wrote

WHOLE BUNCHA STUFF SNIPPED

I have worked in the trades. I was a commercial diver. I was a certified
crane operator on drilling platforms in the Gulf of Mexico. I worked
assembling and disassembling derricks. I was a steel erection contractor in
the State of Nevada for nine years.

All required rigging knowledge.

I was certified by Offshore Petroleum Institute, the regulatory agency at
that time. I have attended many inhouse training programs and union held
classes on rigging that were recognized and sanctioned by OSHA.

I do know one or two things:

I have enough experience to know that if you try to lift things with rafter
trusses, it will work, or if will fail.

I know that if you ask a structural engineer if it will work, they will
simply tell you it is a bad idea.

I know if you go by the book, lifting by attaching to rafters is a no no.
Especially when they are probably 2 x 4s.

I know that there are about ten thousand better ways to make this lift
safely.

Like I said, hook it up. Lift it up. It will either succeed or fail. I
have made many lifts and procedures that were out of the bounds of what it
said in the book, and they worked.

Just watch from a safe position. Cause sometimes they work and sometimes
they don't. And that even goes for things you do the right way.

Whatever anyone does in the privacy of their own garage don't affect my
life.

Steve

Good experience Steve but I see none in construction trades dealing
with this kind of thing. Why not try being realistic and realize we're
discussing 150# here.

Did you happen to try the experiment I suggested? Or perhaps you might
think something this practical has no validity?

dennis
in nca

"rigger" writes:

Ignoramus16172 wrote:
On 3 Mar 2006 12:11:26 -0800, rigger wrote:

Steve B wrote:
"rigger" wrote in message

I do not want to get into a ****ing match between you guys, but I have
a chain hoist suspended on rafters, with a 4x6 across the rafters. I
lifted stuff up to 600 lbs with that one. This setup is not too far
from a supporting wall, it is not in the middle of the garage. That
adds some strength to it. It would not even creak.

i


Sounds like a good setup Iggy. I guess my experiences rigging and
insistance on the safety of my crews made me overreact to Steve's
offhand comments.

Sorry Steve, I guess I may have been a little harsh.

dennis
in nca


I've done 1400 lbs that way myself- used a spare 8x8 up above w/ a
couple more 8x8 cutoffs beneath as spreaders to get across ~10 2x6
rafters. Hoist was 3' or so from the wall. The rig didn't visibly flex
when the weight came on. But I'd hesitate to go much higher than
that...

Shucks I'd put 150# on an eyebolt- but would never dork around with
sistering 2x4's. Why bother when you can lag up 2x6's?

Gregm

"Greg Menke" wrote in message
...
"rigger" writes:

Ignoramus16172 wrote:
On 3 Mar 2006 12:11:26 -0800, rigger wrote:

Steve B wrote:
"rigger" wrote in message

I do not want to get into a ****ing match between you guys, but I have
a chain hoist suspended on rafters, with a 4x6 across the rafters. I
lifted stuff up to 600 lbs with that one. This setup is not too far
from a supporting wall, it is not in the middle of the garage. That
adds some strength to it. It would not even creak.

i


Sounds like a good setup Iggy. I guess my experiences rigging and
insistance on the safety of my crews made me overreact to Steve's
offhand comments.

Sorry Steve, I guess I may have been a little harsh.

dennis
in nca


I've done 1400 lbs that way myself- used a spare 8x8 up above w/ a
couple more 8x8 cutoffs beneath as spreaders to get across ~10 2x6
rafters. Hoist was 3' or so from the wall. The rig didn't visibly flex
when the weight came on. But I'd hesitate to go much higher than
that...

Shucks I'd put 150# on an eyebolt- but would never dork around with
sistering 2x4's. Why bother when you can lag up 2x6's?

Gregm

Myself, I'd just pick it up. If inconveniet or no place to grip slide it
down a board.
It's not likw we are dealing with a mill or lathe weighing several
hundred(s) of pounds.

Steve B wrote:
"rigger" wrote

I guess my experiences rigging and
insistance on the safety of my crews made me overreact to Steve's
offhand comments.

Sorry Steve, I guess I may have been a little harsh.

dennis
in nca


I thought I just said that putting a beam over the rafters was a good idea.
I thought I said that it might cause some distortion, but still hold.

I insisted on safety practices from all of my crews. Never had a man hurt
badly, and never dropped anything big or important. (Biggest lift, 28,000#)
I think lifting with rafters is a bad idea, yet I would do it if I could
spread the load over more than two rafters.

MAJOR point: 150# is not a lot when spread out. More than that, I believe
would start to become marginal and dangerous. In that case, I would still
do it, but use some vertical shoring under horizontal supports with screw or
hydraulic jacks, and then I would do it confidently.

Just me. What you do after you close your garage door is okay with me.

Steve

Last time Steve.

How many times have you set up rigging using timbers, etc. in elevator
shafts to raise or lower large machinery or equipment? I've done
somewhere between 12 and 18.

How many times have you moved machinery out of fire damaged or rickety
old buildings with weak floors? I've done about 40 to 50 of these.

How many times have you set wood cribbing to load or unload machinery
or equipment up to 60,000#? I've done this hundreds of times.

How many times have you skidded and moved machines weighing anything
between 500# and 100,000# using anything from softwood 2x4s to hardwood
12x12s. I've done this thousands of times.

Enough. This is called practical experience. This is pretty far from
crane operation and since we also erected cranes I'll tell you it's
nothing like that at all.

We both believe in safety but, I believe, because of your relative
inexperience in the types of procedures I've noted above, you (and many
others) tend to overkill to be on the safe side. And basically I don't
argue with this idea. Stronger can't be less safe, right? And I say
if someone wants to spend the extra time and money to feel safe: go for
it.

What I do object to however is someone who has relatively little
practical experience questioning my suggestions on the basis of safety.
After all you'll never catch me questioning your suggestions about
crane operation. Why don't you stick to the things you know best. Or
at least ask a question instead of suggesting the fallacy of someone
else's ideas.

dennis
in nca

"rigger" wrote

Good experience Steve but I see none in construction trades dealing
with this kind of thing. Why not try being realistic and realize we're
discussing 150# here.

Did you happen to try the experiment I suggested? Or perhaps you might
think something this practical has no validity?

dennis
in nca


Yeah. Realistically, it is entirely possible to lift such a small amount
with the raftes. But for that, I'd find a ramp or dock or berm. Or just get
a couple of workers. 150# is not a lot.

Steve

"rigger" wrote in message
oups.com...

Steve B wrote:
"rigger" wrote

I guess my experiences rigging and
insistance on the safety of my crews made me overreact to Steve's
offhand comments.

Sorry Steve, I guess I may have been a little harsh.

dennis
in nca


I thought I just said that putting a beam over the rafters was a good
idea.
I thought I said that it might cause some distortion, but still hold.

I insisted on safety practices from all of my crews. Never had a man
hurt
badly, and never dropped anything big or important. (Biggest lift,
28,000#)
I think lifting with rafters is a bad idea, yet I would do it if I could
spread the load over more than two rafters.

MAJOR point: 150# is not a lot when spread out. More than that, I
believe
would start to become marginal and dangerous. In that case, I would
still
do it, but use some vertical shoring under horizontal supports with screw
or
hydraulic jacks, and then I would do it confidently.

Just me. What you do after you close your garage door is okay with me.

Steve

Last time Steve.

How many times have you set up rigging using timbers, etc. in elevator
shafts to raise or lower large machinery or equipment? I've done
somewhere between 12 and 18.

How many times have you moved machinery out of fire damaged or rickety
old buildings with weak floors? I've done about 40 to 50 of these.

How many times have you set wood cribbing to load or unload machinery
or equipment up to 60,000#? I've done this hundreds of times.

How many times have you skidded and moved machines weighing anything
between 500# and 100,000# using anything from softwood 2x4s to hardwood
12x12s. I've done this thousands of times.

Enough. This is called practical experience. This is pretty far from
crane operation and since we also erected cranes I'll tell you it's
nothing like that at all.

We both believe in safety but, I believe, because of your relative
inexperience in the types of procedures I've noted above, you (and many
others) tend to overkill to be on the safe side. And basically I don't
argue with this idea. Stronger can't be less safe, right? And I say
if someone wants to spend the extra time and money to feel safe: go for
it.

What I do object to however is someone who has relatively little
practical experience questioning my suggestions on the basis of safety.
After all you'll never catch me questioning your suggestions about
crane operation. Why don't you stick to the things you know best. Or
at least ask a question instead of suggesting the fallacy of someone
else's ideas.

dennis
in nca


Like I said, hook it up and see what happens. It will work or it won't.
It's that simple.

Steve

"rigger" wrote in message
oups.com...



Sounds like a good setup Iggy. I guess my experiences rigging and
insistance on the safety of my crews made me overreact to Steve's
offhand comments.



I have a chain host on rails, mounted to the ceiling in my garage. I covers
a 8' x 15' area. BUT, the unusual part is the gent that built the garage put
floor trusses in the middle of the garage where I ended up mounting the
hoist. Each rail is bolted up through two adjacent trusses, to the top run,
where the load belongs. I have lifted over 2000 lbs. with this set up! Would
I recommend it for someone else? No way! Would I do it again? Yes sir!

A little common sense goes along way. The trouble with the internet, and
newsgroups, is you have no clue if the fellow asking the question has any
common sense!
Greg

Greg O wrote:
"rigger" wrote in message
oups.com...



Sounds like a good setup Iggy. I guess my experiences rigging and
insistance on the safety of my crews made me overreact to Steve's
offhand comments.



I have a chain host on rails, mounted to the ceiling in my garage. I covers
a 8' x 15' area. BUT, the unusual part is the gent that built the garage put
floor trusses in the middle of the garage where I ended up mounting the
hoist. Each rail is bolted up through two adjacent trusses, to the top run,
where the load belongs. I have lifted over 2000 lbs. with this set up! Would
I recommend it for someone else? No way! Would I do it again? Yes sir!


A very nice setup. Not a bad philosophy either. If you're not sure
you definitly should not recommend.

A little common sense goes along way. The trouble with the internet, and
newsgroups, is you have no clue if the fellow asking the question has any
common sense!

You're so right Greg.

That's also part of the reason I watch this type of topic. During my
years as a rigger in Local 136 in Chicago I had the privilege of
working with and learning from other journeyman riggers whose families
went back for generations in the trade. I had years of experience
before I could finally call myself a journeyman rigger. To me, someone
with light experience, trying to pass themselves off as a true rigger,
is a dishonorable joke.

When I read posts by people who try to pass themselves off as knowing
something about rigging this really makes my antenna go up. If it's
only a matter of overkill I chuckle to myself and generally let it
pass, sometimes throwing in my ideas but never denigrating others.

The problem arises when someone knowing less than the "pseudo rigger
poster" accepts what they say lending validity to the idea of their
claimed experience. Then what will happen when a really BAD idea comes
from them?

The other reason I post to this type of thing is that I've yet to see a
post by another, trained, rigger. It makes me feel I have an
obligation to all the people who freely supply the metalworking
knowledge I so enjoy. I think that's only fair.

Anyway, time to move on.

dennis
in nca

"rigger" wrote

The other reason I post to this type of thing is that I've yet to see a
post by another, trained, rigger. It makes me feel I have an
obligation to all the people who freely supply the metalworking
knowledge I so enjoy. I think that's only fair.

Anyway, time to move on.

dennis
in nca


You humble rascal, you.

Steve

Steve B wrote:
"rigger" wrote

The other reason I post to this type of thing is that I've yet to see a
post by another, trained, rigger. It makes me feel I have an
obligation to all the people who freely supply the metalworking
knowledge I so enjoy. I think that's only fair.

Anyway, time to move on.

dennis
in nca


You humble rascal, you.

Steve

I say: If you don't have it don't flaunt it.

I'm humble in acknowledging there are better riggers out there than
myself and I'm not afraid to admit it, or admit when I might be wrong.
Unlike some others.

But being humble won't help others in this group who may have need of
the knowledge I possess, or who may wonder about my qualifications to
provide this information to others.

Hope you don't mind. You're not upset, are you?

dennis
in nca

"rigger" wrote in message
oups.com...

Steve B wrote:
"rigger" wrote

The other reason I post to this type of thing is that I've yet to see a
post by another, trained, rigger. It makes me feel I have an
obligation to all the people who freely supply the metalworking
knowledge I so enjoy. I think that's only fair.

Anyway, time to move on.

dennis
in nca


You humble rascal, you.

Steve

I say: If you don't have it don't flaunt it.

I'm humble in acknowledging there are better riggers out there than
myself and I'm not afraid to admit it, or admit when I might be wrong.
Unlike some others.

But being humble won't help others in this group who may have need of
the knowledge I possess, or who may wonder about my qualifications to
provide this information to others.

Hope you don't mind. You're not upset, are you?

dennis
in nca


Not at all, sir. You have made my point more eloquently than I could ever
have hoped to.

Steve

Steve B wrote:
"rigger" wrote in message
oups.com...

Steve B wrote:
"rigger" wrote

The other reason I post to this type of thing is that I've yet to see a
post by another, trained, rigger. It makes me feel I have an
obligation to all the people who freely supply the metalworking
knowledge I so enjoy. I think that's only fair.

Anyway, time to move on.

dennis
in nca


You humble rascal, you.

Steve

I say: If you don't have it don't flaunt it.

I'm humble in acknowledging there are better riggers out there than
myself and I'm not afraid to admit it, or admit when I might be wrong.
Unlike some others.

But being humble won't help others in this group who may have need of
the knowledge I possess, or who may wonder about my qualifications to
provide this information to others.

Hope you don't mind. You're not upset, are you?

dennis
in nca


Not at all, sir. You have made my point more eloquently than I could ever
have hoped to.

Steve

And you, mine.

dennis
in nca

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:fg2Of.326$wp.67@fed1read12...

"rigger" wrote

WHOLE BUNCHA STUFF SNIPPED

I have worked in the trades. I was a commercial diver. I was a certified
crane operator on drilling platforms in the Gulf of Mexico. I worked
assembling and disassembling derricks. I was a steel erection contractor
in the State of Nevada for nine years.

All required rigging knowledge.

I was certified by Offshore Petroleum Institute, the regulatory agency at
that time. I have attended many inhouse training programs and union held
classes on rigging that were recognized and sanctioned by OSHA.

I do know one or two things:

I have enough experience to know that if you try to lift things with
rafter trusses, it will work, or if will fail.

I know that if you ask a structural engineer if it will work, they will
simply tell you it is a bad idea.

I know if you go by the book, lifting by attaching to rafters is a no no.
Especially when they are probably 2 x 4s.

I know that there are about ten thousand better ways to make this lift
safely.

Like I said, hook it up. Lift it up. It will either succeed or fail. I
have made many lifts and procedures that were out of the bounds of what it
said in the book, and they worked.

Just watch from a safe position. Cause sometimes they work and sometimes
they don't. And that even goes for things you do the right way.

Whatever anyone does in the privacy of their own garage don't affect my
life.

Steve

Shoot for 150# I would just get my "little" boy to grab one in each hand and
put em where I want em

Ignoramus16172 wrote:


here it is

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/ChainHoist/

i

If I were handling your 150 lb objects, I would put a rope hoist on
your trolley and lower the chargers onto something like a movers dolley
with fours casters. If you use a four to one hoist, it would take 38
lbs pull to lift a charger, roll down the rail, lower onto a dolly and
unhook. Repeat for the rest.

The reason you don't want to use the chain hoist is that it is so slow,
but can lift a lot.
A rope hoist is limited in what it will lift, but is quick. With all
the surplus stuff you buy, having six movers type dollys will pay off
in the future. With a rope hoist you can load them back on a truck
quickly too.


Dan

In article fg2Of.326$wp.67@fed1read12, Steve B
wrote:

"rigger" wrote

WHOLE BUNCHA STUFF SNIPPED

I have worked in the trades. I was a commercial diver. I was a certified
crane operator on drilling platforms in the Gulf of Mexico. I worked
assembling and disassembling derricks. I was a steel erection contractor in
the State of Nevada for nine years.

All required rigging knowledge.

I was certified by Offshore Petroleum Institute, the regulatory agency at
that time. I have attended many inhouse training programs and union held
classes on rigging that were recognized and sanctioned by OSHA.

I do know one or two things:

I have enough experience to know that if you try to lift things with rafter
trusses, it will work, or if will fail.

I know that if you ask a structural engineer if it will work, they will
simply tell you it is a bad idea.

Actually, that's not true, and I have a structural certificate from a
practising engineer to show for my asking. Told him I wanted to lift a
max of 500kg from the centre point of a 7.2m span truss and he told me
what size truss I needed to order from the manufacturer.

He also said that up to 200kg, don't worry about it. That's the SWL
anyway. NB, I said SWL, not max load before failure.

YMMV if you have poor engineering standards where you live.

PDW

"Peter Wiley" wrote

That's the SWL
anyway. NB, I said SWL, not max load before failure.

YMMV if you have poor engineering standards where you live.

PDW

In your case, was it small residential class framing, or heavier stuff? I
have seen some old barns and garages that had beams in their truss structure
that you probably could have lifted a car with, and surely pull an engine.

If your neighborhood is like mine is getting, I wouldn't trust the wood, the
construction, or the framers. That is, if I spoke the same language as the
framers and understood what they were talking about.

Steve