On 24 Jan 2004 13:05:08 -0800, jim rozen
brought forth from the murky depths:

In article , Larry Jaques says...

Wow! Your mom sure must be a heavy drinker to single-handedly
close a liquor store!

She has a lot of friends in town.

Awww, you're no fun.


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On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:33:47 -0500, "Jimbo" . wrote:
John:

A little business 101 might help here.

You say Rich has a receipt for a new saw do you know for a fact that the
receipt is signed by an company authorized to sell that companies product?
Do you know for a fact how old the saw is and if Rich was the first and
only owner. Do you remember Rich metioning that he had rebuilt the carb?
Did he do that before or after speaking to the dealer about warrantee
repairs? Do you know for a fact that any warrentee that might be on that
companies equipment is transferable?

You're confused. Rich says he bought a new Husqvarna chainsaw.
The new saw has a clutch problem. Rather than attempt to repair it
himself, he took his new saw to a listed *Husqvarna Service Center*
for warranty service. He was refused.

The fellow fooling with the carb is Bill. His saw is a Stihl of uncertain
vintage. He hasn't said anything about taking it to a dealer, much less
to a listed factory authorized Service Center. If Bill was thinking of doing
so, this thread should convince him to avoid unscrupulous repair shops
which claim to be factory authorized Service Centers, yet refuse to do
warranty work on new equipment.

I know that if I were in Rich's position, I'd be *demanding* satisfaction
from Husqvarna. They designated the repair shop where he was refused
as a Husqvarna Service Center. I'd be demanding that they pull that
designation if the shop won't do what Husqvarna asserts it is supposed
to do in their warranty booklet.

Husqvarna claims that they select their dealers and factory authorized
repair centers with great care. I'd say they've dropped the ball with this
particular Husqvarna Service Center. Business 101 says you do what
you promise in writing to do. Husqvarna's authorized agent hasn't done
that.

If Husqvarna fails to provide satisfaction, I'd file a complaint with the
state consumer affairs office, the Federal Trade Commission, and if
necessary, file suit against Husqvarna, and their agent, for failure to
honor their warranty obligations.

Gary

Gary:

Your right I did get confused between the 2 post and I'm sorry for screwing
up, must be old age EH.

As far as your comments about going after Husqvarna I agree completely. I
my opinion business 101 means getting all your ducks in order then when your
sure you have all the documentation you need to support your claim go for
it. And most importantly don't put any claims in writing that you can't
support with written documentation. Never do anything over the phone once
your initial complaint has been refused. Do absolutely everything in
writing by fax or registered mail and avoid E-mail whenever possible.

In an earlier post I mentioned that I do a lot of complaining for both
myself and people who ask for my help. The process that I follow
religiously is actually very easy and effective but I must admit when
debating the Husqvarna Fiasco I let my guard down and I let myself get
caught up in a debate where I didn't have all the information needed and in
hindsight I should have stayed out of the debate.

Jimbo



"Gary Coffman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:33:47 -0500, "Jimbo" . wrote:
John:

A little business 101 might help here.

You say Rich has a receipt for a new saw do you know for a fact that the
receipt is signed by an company authorized to sell that companies
product?
Do you know for a fact how old the saw is and if Rich was the first and
only owner. Do you remember Rich metioning that he had rebuilt the
carb?
Did he do that before or after speaking to the dealer about warrantee
repairs? Do you know for a fact that any warrentee that might be on
that
companies equipment is transferable?

You're confused. Rich says he bought a new Husqvarna chainsaw.
The new saw has a clutch problem. Rather than attempt to repair it
himself, he took his new saw to a listed *Husqvarna Service Center*
for warranty service. He was refused.

The fellow fooling with the carb is Bill. His saw is a Stihl of uncertain
vintage. He hasn't said anything about taking it to a dealer, much less
to a listed factory authorized Service Center. If Bill was thinking of
doing
so, this thread should convince him to avoid unscrupulous repair shops
which claim to be factory authorized Service Centers, yet refuse to do
warranty work on new equipment.

I know that if I were in Rich's position, I'd be *demanding* satisfaction
from Husqvarna. They designated the repair shop where he was refused
as a Husqvarna Service Center. I'd be demanding that they pull that
designation if the shop won't do what Husqvarna asserts it is supposed
to do in their warranty booklet.

Husqvarna claims that they select their dealers and factory authorized
repair centers with great care. I'd say they've dropped the ball with this
particular Husqvarna Service Center. Business 101 says you do what
you promise in writing to do. Husqvarna's authorized agent hasn't done
that.

If Husqvarna fails to provide satisfaction, I'd file a complaint with the
state consumer affairs office, the Federal Trade Commission, and if
necessary, file suit against Husqvarna, and their agent, for failure to
honor their warranty obligations.

Gary

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:40:01 -0800, Tim Douglass wrote:
No excuse for bad attitude, but gas prices are an odd case. Assume a
station buys 3,000 gallons at a time (pretty typical). They sell it at
a price that is usually 1-5 cents above their invoice (plus all the
taxes). If the price of gas goes up 3 cents and they were selling at 2
cents over cost they have to dig into profit from other sales to cover
the increase, but they can recoup that as they sell the new load. The
problem comes when the price starts to drop. If the station across the
street buys a new load that is 6 cents cheaper and cuts their retail
price while you still have 2,000 gallons in the tanks you are pretty
much up the proverbial creek sans paddle. If you price match the guy
across the street you lose money on every gallon you sell. If you
don't it takes forever to empty your tank and refill with cheaper gas.
Most stations split the difference.

Most stations operate on a replacement cost basis. They adjust
their prices day by day according to the cost of replacement gas
on the wholesale market that day, whether they actually buy any
replacement gas that day or not. (Chain stations may actually
purchase futures contracts day by day, but independents rarely
have the capital to play that game, and just have to sweat out
a changing market.)

Pricing on the basis of replacement cost means they see an
increased profit margin on gas they bought cheaply in a rising
market, and a decreased profit margin on gas they bought dear
in a declining market. But they always generate enough money
to buy replacement gas on any given day. As long as the price
swings aren't too rapid and radical, they don't have to dip into
other revenues to refill their tanks.

Actually, most stations don't do it exactly that way. They do boost
prices immediately when the wholesale cost of gas goes up, but
they reduce prices more slowly as the wholesale price declines,
often waiting for a competitor to make the first move. That delay
helps to protect their profit margin in a declining market.

Jacking up prices on a commodity they already have in their
tanks is when charges of profiteering are heard, And when the
prices at different stations move the same way and the same
amount at about the same time, charges of price fixing start to
be heard.

Because nearly every station's prices seem to move so closely
in sync with every other station in a given area, collusion is a
tempting explanation. It usually isn't true, though. It is just the
way the modified replacement pricing models work out in a
competitive market.

Gary

It's interesting to note that where I live, the cost of auto gas here is
ALWAYS higher than any town in a 40 mile radius. On the "busy" side of
town, gas is about 5 or 6 cents higher than on the "dead" side of town,
along entry/exit routes. We have a real estate tycoon here who has his
hands into everything, and interestingly enough, he owns both high and lower
priced stations around here, including the highest, and the lowest. Also
owns a major propane distributor, along with a large liquid transport
trucking company. Hmmmm....

RJ


"Gary Coffman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:40:01 -0800, Tim Douglass
wrote:
No excuse for bad attitude, but gas prices are an odd case. Assume a
station buys 3,000 gallons at a time (pretty typical). They sell it at
a price that is usually 1-5 cents above their invoice (plus all the
taxes). If the price of gas goes up 3 cents and they were selling at 2
cents over cost they have to dig into profit from other sales to cover
the increase, but they can recoup that as they sell the new load. The
problem comes when the price starts to drop. If the station across the
street buys a new load that is 6 cents cheaper and cuts their retail
price while you still have 2,000 gallons in the tanks you are pretty
much up the proverbial creek sans paddle. If you price match the guy
across the street you lose money on every gallon you sell. If you
don't it takes forever to empty your tank and refill with cheaper gas.
Most stations split the difference.

Most stations operate on a replacement cost basis. They adjust
their prices day by day according to the cost of replacement gas
on the wholesale market that day, whether they actually buy any
replacement gas that day or not. (Chain stations may actually
purchase futures contracts day by day, but independents rarely
have the capital to play that game, and just have to sweat out
a changing market.)

Pricing on the basis of replacement cost means they see an
increased profit margin on gas they bought cheaply in a rising
market, and a decreased profit margin on gas they bought dear
in a declining market. But they always generate enough money
to buy replacement gas on any given day. As long as the price
swings aren't too rapid and radical, they don't have to dip into
other revenues to refill their tanks.

Actually, most stations don't do it exactly that way. They do boost
prices immediately when the wholesale cost of gas goes up, but
they reduce prices more slowly as the wholesale price declines,
often waiting for a competitor to make the first move. That delay
helps to protect their profit margin in a declining market.

Jacking up prices on a commodity they already have in their
tanks is when charges of profiteering are heard, And when the
prices at different stations move the same way and the same
amount at about the same time, charges of price fixing start to
be heard.

Because nearly every station's prices seem to move so closely
in sync with every other station in a given area, collusion is a
tempting explanation. It usually isn't true, though. It is just the
way the modified replacement pricing models work out in a
competitive market.

Gary

"Here's an idea" writes:

Mother in law owns the small town (500) paper. Town grocery decided it
wasn't worth advertising in the paper for $300 for the month. Mom stopped
buying food there. Any guesses on how much a family with 6 kids spends at
the grocery?

I can't imagine any family spending enough on groceries for the store to
make a $300 profit per month on one family.

Yes, it feels good to do this sorts of things, but it doesn't really hurt
the store all that much. Many store owners would gladly trade a $50 loss
in profit for a $300 savings in expense.

Brian Elfert

Tim Douglass writes:

Most of the c-store gas stations actually sell their gas at almost no
profit because they make the money on beer and cigs. The low gas price
is just to get you in the door. Stations that sell gas and do
mechanical work can also keep their prices lower. The ones that only

Why would any c-store add pay at the pump if they make little or no money
on the gas?

Plenty of research has shown that people often buy more than they planned
on, once they get in the store. Customers certainly won't buy anything
extra if they never even set foot in the store.

Brian Elfert

(Robert Bonomi) writes:

They bought one full-page ad, and the newspaper ran a THREE PAGE (three _full_
pages, including the entire front page of the 'family' section) "feature"
story about the new store. (Yes, the newspaper management was _drooling_
at the thought that they might start behaving like a 'regular' grocery
again -- picking up several full pages of ads every week.)

I work for a large metro newspaper, and yes, grocery stores are huge
advertisers. The owner of one chain went bankrupt and we lost several
million dollars as a result of the bankruptcy.

Now that I work at a newspaper, I have mixed feelings about advertising.
On the one hand, my job depends on advertising, but on the other hand I'd
rather pay less for the goods I buy.

There are three big grocers in town, two chains and SuperTarget. The two
chains advertise like crazy in all media. About the only advertising
SuperTarget does for food is a weekly insert in the sunday paper.

SuperTarget has lower prices on almost all groceries, in some cases far
lower. I stil go to the chains occasionally, but only because SuperTarget
doesn't carry as much.

Brian Elfert

"Brian Elfert" wrote in message news:40154254$0$41291

Now that I work at a newspaper, I have mixed feelings about advertising.
On the one hand, my job depends on advertising, but on the other hand I'd
rather pay less for the goods I buy.

Its one of them chicken/egg things. Unless they advertise, you won;t know
what the prices are, but it cost money to do that. Balance, I guess, is the
key. If sales go up from advertising, they can sell for less.
Ed

Robert Bonomi wrote: (clip) Combined with superior customer-service (would
you believe that they _still_ have the 'bag boys' take groceries to your car
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah, but will they repair my Husky chain saw, since I didn't buy it there?
G

In article ,
Leo Lichtman wrote:

Robert Bonomi wrote: (clip) Combined with superior customer-service (would
you believe that they _still_ have the 'bag boys' take groceries to your car
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah, but will they repair my Husky chain saw, since I didn't buy it there?
G



Knowing the way _this_ grocery store operates, they just *might*!

They've been known to go further out of their way for customers.

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:53:21 -0500, Gary Coffman
brought forth from the murky depths:

Actually, most stations don't do it exactly that way. They do boost
prices immediately when the wholesale cost of gas goes up, but
they reduce prices more slowly as the wholesale price declines,
often waiting for a competitor to make the first move. That delay
helps to protect their profit margin in a declining market.

What a lovely and endearing way to say "F*cks the customers."

And on the flip side, we have companies like Lee Valley Tools
in Canada. If the price drops while your order is in shipping,
they send a check to you for the difference, explaining that
the costs went down. If the price happened to go up, you would
not know it as they ate the cost difference. It's a great company
and I just placed another order with them last night.

Their customer service, 180° to Husky's, gives full service and
always satisfies the customer. I've heard of people who were
not satisfied with a purchase (didn't do what they thought it
would, not an actual LVT problem) yet LVT refunded the entire
purchase price and covered shipping both ways. Husky could learn
MUCH from them.

http://www.leevalley.com Woodworking/Gardening tools/cabinet hdw
(Disclaimer: no affiliation other than being a satisfied repeat
customer)

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On 26 Jan 2004 16:23:45 GMT, Brian Elfert wrote:
Tim Douglass writes:

Most of the c-store gas stations actually sell their gas at almost no
profit because they make the money on beer and cigs. The low gas price
is just to get you in the door. Stations that sell gas and do
mechanical work can also keep their prices lower. The ones that only

Why would any c-store add pay at the pump if they make little or no money
on the gas?

I think they do it because customers want it, other gas stations have it,
and they'd lose customer traffic if they didn't have it. (I don't think that
they're making little or no money on gas sales, though.)

Plenty of research has shown that people often buy more than they planned
on, once they get in the store. Customers certainly won't buy anything
extra if they never even set foot in the store.

Just based on my own experiences and observations, even though I always
pay for gas at the pump, *since I'm there*, I may also walk into the store
and pick up something else (quart of milk, loaf of bread, whatever). If I
had to make a *separate trip*, I probably wouldn't buy those things at the
convenience store, but *since I'm there anyway getting gas* I just might.
I also appreciate that pay at the pump means I don't have to stand in a
long line inside the store in order to make my other purchases.

Gary

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:12:01 -0800, Jim Stewart
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

GTO69RA4 wrote:

In general it's always better to develop a reliationship with a dealer when you
get something like this. They'll give you freebies, will promply work on stuff
you've bought from them, might give you loaners, free instructions, parts, etc.

Not where I live...


Yeah. That's what I was thinking....
************************************************** ** sorry
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Spike....Spike? Hello?

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:33:46 -0500, "Jimbo" .
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

What seems to be wrong though, is that the dealer _has_ to take a loss
to carry out that warranty service, whether they sold the item at a
profit or not. This is a Huskey issue. The dealer should not have to
carry the cost of faulty products.

I think the bit about moving after you have bought, and the (new car)
breaks down, is the strongest argument here.

I'm with Carl all the way. If a dealer makes a profit selling a product why
should another dealer have to service it at a loss? If the internet
dealer had to service the unit and pay shipping to and from his shop he'd
have to very quickly up his prices well above what your local dealer would
charge. Yes they make a smaller profit it but they have no risk.

Jimbo
"Carl Byrns" wrote in message

************************************************** ** sorry
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Spike....Spike? Hello?

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:39:48 -0600, Rick Chamberlain
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

This has nothing to do with reimbursement rates. If the shop doesn't
make money doing warranty work, then why do it?

Because otherwise some travelling lumberjack is going to come in one
day and raise hell?.... G

Also, the warranty is between the manufacturer and the consumer,
executed by authorized service centers. I don't personally care if the
shop makes nothing - they agreed to be an agent of the company and honor
the warranty.

The guy has to sell and service _something_. All manufacturers will
give him the same (50%) deal, I bet.

That said, this shop had a chance to convert a non-customer into one,
and failed miserably. The shop owner didn't look at potential future
business, only that Rich didn't buy the saw from him, so screw him.

He'd done 50 jobs like it, and had not seen that "return custom"
enough to make it worth it. Buyers will use you once, then go where
it's cheaper, then use you again.


I'm glad you personally chose to honor warranty work from people who
didn't purchase from you, but fail to see why you would take 50% of your
normal rate for it.

errr..he had no choice. The manufacturer set it.
************************************************** ** sorry
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Spike....Spike? Hello?

On 26 Jan 2004 16:23:45 GMT, Brian Elfert wrote:
Tim Douglass writes:

Most of the c-store gas stations actually sell their gas at almost no
profit because they make the money on beer and cigs. The low gas price
is just to get you in the door. Stations that sell gas and do
mechanical work can also keep their prices lower. The ones that only

Why would any c-store add pay at the pump if they make little or no money
on the gas?

Plenty of research has shown that people often buy more than they planned
on, once they get in the store. Customers certainly won't buy anything
extra if they never even set foot in the store.

Because they set the card reader on the pump up to be really finicky
- about a third of the time I get "Card unreadable, See Attendant"
error which gets you inside the store. The attendant doesn't have any
problems reading the card at the counter...

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Bruce L. Bergman wrote in message
SNIP
Plenty of research has shown that people often buy more than they planned
on, once they get in the store. Customers certainly won't buy anything
extra if they never even set foot in the store.

Because they set the card reader on the pump up to be really finicky
- about a third of the time I get "Card unreadable, See Attendant"
error which gets you inside the store. The attendant doesn't have any
problems reading the card at the counter...

-- Bruce --

My experience has been the exact opposite. When my debit card mag
strip was too worn for any store cashier to accept with a swipe, the
gas pumps always took it. Since that is basically what I use it for
95% of the time, I went about a year without replacing it even though
it was a PITA those few times I used it in a store.

Because they set the card reader on the pump up to be really finicky
- about a third of the time I get "Card unreadable, See Attendant"
error which gets you inside the store. The attendant doesn't have any
problems reading the card at the counter...



I simply use another pump or another station. Never have gone inside under
those rare circumstances. I'd be lost without my debit card.
Lane