Rich,
Should have bought a Stihl ;-)

Michelle

Rich wrote:

Purchased a nice chainsaw via internet like most of all my tools.

Saw had a brake problem with the chain and I called the local service center
for warranty work and they said come on down.
Once they found out I purchased it on the internet at the shop they refused
to work on it as a warranty job since I didnt buy it from them. They cited
low pay from Husky on warranty work and were not willing to do it if they
didnt make the sale.

I called Husqvarna about the problem and they told me that "I need to
understand the dealers perspective" and they have the right to refuse
service, even warranty work when they are an authorized dealer/repair
center.

Most likely it is a simple fix as far as adjusting the brake band on the
clutch but it seems the local dealers are fighting back and I am caught in
the middle.

Who cares about me, they all got my money and in the mean time I have
useless, expensive, orange boat anchor with Husqvarna written on the side.

Anyway be advised if your buying mail order chainsaws.

Rich





--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:24:59 GMT, Rick Chamberlain
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:01:20 -0600, Rick Chamberlain
wrote:

Fair enough. Never said I had a problem with that. Now, what about
those who buy from an authorized dealer but can't produce a receipt for
you? Like when I travel to my cottage - I don't take my chainsaw
receipt with me "just in case".


Well, here's where a lot of problems occur and a lot of shouting can
happen.

We could look up the serial number, if it isn't obscured (and on a
saw, it might be. I write mine down and keep it some place safe).

No serial number could mean the saw is stolen merchandise.
'Factory Reconditioned' units usually get a differnt serial number
that reflects the fact they aren't new and may not be fully
warranteed. These are two of the biggest reasons dealers don't want to
get involved with repairing internet purchases.

But let's say it's readable and legal. The next step would be to make
sure it's within warranty.

Now, let's say it's within warranty. We fix it and submit a claim
using an extranet. We get paid.

But if we're busy, it's going to the back of the line.

Let me turn the question around:
You're a selling dealer and it's a busy Fall weekend. Your shelves are
full of tools that your good customers- guys who have been buying from
you for years- are waiting to have repaired or serviced. You've been
putting in some long days taking care of these folks.

Now, some guy that only comes around for the weekends or when the bass
are hitting comes in and plunks down a new saw he bought somewhere
else. It doesn't work and he wants you to drop everything and fix- for
free -his saw first.
What do you do?

-Carl

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:33:46 -0500, "Jimbo" .
brought forth from the murky depths:

I'm with Carl all the way. If a dealer makes a profit selling a product why
should another dealer have to service it at a loss?

Look at it another way. If you buy a car in Cleveland, then
move to Miami, should the Miami dealer tell you to stuff it,
to get is serviced and warrantied in Cleveland?

If I buy a known brand product from an authorized dealer and
that brand promotes its nationwide/worldwide service network,
I expect them to honor it no matter where I take it, period.
I worked for both Chevy and Ford dealerships where warranty
work was just another (sucky) part of the game. The higher
dealer service pricing made up for it by giving the mechanics
higher pay for the retail stuff.


All dealers and their mechanics (should) know that warranty
work doesn't pay well but it goes with the territory.

I'm with Rich and think Rick had it right: Take it to the
next level at Husky. If they don't jump, take it to the nice
media people. Does Rich's town's TV station have one of those
troubleshooters? If all mail order and Internet purchases
are suddenly unwarrantyable, we're all in deep ****, Maynard.



--
STOP THE SLAUGHTER! || http://diversify.com
Boycott Baby Oil! || Programmed Websites

In article ,
says...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:24:59 GMT, Rick Chamberlain
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:01:20 -0600, Rick Chamberlain
wrote:

Fair enough. Never said I had a problem with that. Now, what about
those who buy from an authorized dealer but can't produce a receipt for
you? Like when I travel to my cottage - I don't take my chainsaw
receipt with me "just in case".


Well, here's where a lot of problems occur and a lot of shouting can
happen.

We could look up the serial number, if it isn't obscured (and on a
saw, it might be. I write mine down and keep it some place safe).

No serial number could mean the saw is stolen merchandise.
'Factory Reconditioned' units usually get a differnt serial number
that reflects the fact they aren't new and may not be fully
warranteed. These are two of the biggest reasons dealers don't want to
get involved with repairing internet purchases.

But let's say it's readable and legal. The next step would be to make
sure it's within warranty.

Now, let's say it's within warranty. We fix it and submit a claim
using an extranet. We get paid.

But if we're busy, it's going to the back of the line.

Let me turn the question around:
You're a selling dealer and it's a busy Fall weekend. Your shelves are
full of tools that your good customers- guys who have been buying from
you for years- are waiting to have repaired or serviced. You've been
putting in some long days taking care of these folks.

Now, some guy that only comes around for the weekends or when the bass
are hitting comes in and plunks down a new saw he bought somewhere
else. It doesn't work and he wants you to drop everything and fix- for
free -his saw first.
What do you do?


Carl,

Service - in my mind - is always first come, first served, unless
someone has a purchased service contract guaranteeing turnaround. The
only language in warranties that implies turnaround is "reasonable
amount of time" and sometimes "not to exceed 30 days".

I wasn't implying that when warranty work comes in that you jump higher
than you do for any other, just that the warranty be honored.
--
Regards,

Rick

(Remove the HIGH SPOTS for e-mail)

In article , Carl Byrns says...

But if we're busy, it's going to the back of the line.

"Sunshine Treatment?"

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:24:59 GMT, Rick Chamberlain
brought forth from the murky depths:

In article ,
says...
If you have a bill of sale from an authorized dealer, then we'll honor
the warranty.

How many traveling lumberjacks carry the receipt for their chainsaw with
them?

That's the key to registering your product with the mfgr.
Now, thanks to the Internet, dealers should be able to verify
your ownership in seconds. Y'know, dealers who actually do
accept warranty work.

I tell you what, after this, I'll check every manufacturer's
warranty much more closely before purchasing their items.

And even though the Net has cheaper prices, if I see the
possibility of having to mail a 400lb item back to the mfgr
for warranty work, I'll usually buy locally. Or if I expect
to use the local dealer's expertise to my benefit, buying
locally is a real boon. The problem is that so few people
in business nowadays have any expertise...
To wit, Micky D/Taco Bell's picture-only cash registers,
and the Borg drone mentality of "Huh, whassa warunty?"

OTOH, I picked up a nice little guitar/tuner/strings/pick
and case for $16.99 (+ $19.50 s/h via UPS) from Ebay last
month. Brand new Chiwanese job, prolly better than a TJ job.
They wanted $129 for the same gitfiddle in town--3 times
the price! For -that- difference, I'll buy mail-order and
take my chances, TYVM.


--
STOP THE SLAUGHTER! || http://diversify.com
Boycott Baby Oil! || Programmed Websites

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Jimbo says...

I really be interested to know how much Rich paid for his chain saw
including taxes and shipping? Then I'd like him to tell us what his
local
dealership was asking for the same exact unit? Then I would like him to
post the model and serial number of the saw so that some knowledgable
person
on this group can tell all of us what a fair price would be for the same
unit purchased through a local dealer.

Local, *where*?

If the dealers only honor warranties from local purchases,
then the notion of a price from a local dealer is moot.

It does him no good if he lives in NYC, and your price
is only good in Yuma, Arizona.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Jim:

Sorry I forgot to mention the importance of location in the equasion. If
Rich lives in some out of the way place where shipping cost are astronomical
that changes everything.

I thought I had explained myself on the local dealer being obligated to
cover warrantee service if the product was purchased from an authorized
selling dealer.
If we all sit back and let Rich explain to us where he lives the model and
serial number of the machine etc. we just might be able to figure out if the
local dealer is screwing him or just refusing to fix an old/refurbished/grey
market out of warrantee product.

For all any of us know the dealer might just have a list of serial numbers
on his wall that are not covered under the manufacturers warrantee. He
might have explained his reason to Rich and Rich hasn't told us the whole
story, who knows.

If Rich really wants to get this out in the open and make the dealer and the
manufacturer pay for not servicing his unit properly it's only fair to all
concerned that he tells us the whole story. If we get all the info it ends
up being a no win "He said they said consumer complaint"

I agree that a customer should get warrantee service anywhere in North
America if the saw was purchased through a regular dealer network. If they
didn't purchase it from an authorized dealer it's the purchasers problem and
they have learned a hard lesson.

Jimbo





"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Jimbo says...

I really be interested to know how much Rich paid for his chain saw
including taxes and shipping? Then I'd like him to tell us what his
local
dealership was asking for the same exact unit? Then I would like him to
post the model and serial number of the saw so that some knowledgable
person
on this group can tell all of us what a fair price would be for the same
unit purchased through a local dealer.

Local, *where*?

If the dealers only honor warranties from local purchases,
then the notion of a price from a local dealer is moot.

It does him no good if he lives in NYC, and your price
is only good in Yuma, Arizona.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Larry Jaques
says...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:24:59 GMT, Rick Chamberlain
brought forth from the murky depths:

In article ,
says...
If you have a bill of sale from an authorized dealer, then we'll honor
the warranty.

How many traveling lumberjacks carry the receipt for their chainsaw with
them?

That's the key to registering your product with the mfgr.
Now, thanks to the Internet, dealers should be able to verify
your ownership in seconds. Y'know, dealers who actually do
accept warranty work.

I tell you what, after this, I'll check every manufacturer's
warranty much more closely before purchasing their items.

I hope I didn't sound too rash in my prior comments - it raises my
hackles when I hear of customer service fiascos like this one.

I decided to check the warranty language on Husky's web site, and the
language says clearly that all servicing dealers must perform warranty
service work, whether you have a receipt or not, and whether you are the
original owner or not. Nowhere in the language did it say that if you
bought it from an unauthorized source that you'd be denied warranty
service.

Then, just for grins, I checked Toro's site. I found no language that
said you had to go just to a master service center - you had the option
to go any authorized Toro service center. They did require proof of
purchase though. And there was nothing about voiding the warranty if
you bought the unit secondhand or from the gray market.

And even though the Net has cheaper prices, if I see the
possibility of having to mail a 400lb item back to the mfgr
for warranty work, I'll usually buy locally. Or if I expect
to use the local dealer's expertise to my benefit, buying
locally is a real boon. The problem is that so few people
in business nowadays have any expertise...
To wit, Micky D/Taco Bell's picture-only cash registers,
and the Borg drone mentality of "Huh, whassa warunty?"

Agreed. I hope Carl doesn't think that I buy everything from the web
and expect my local service shops to bend over backwards. But when I do
buy from the web and have a warranty problem, I expect that they'd put
forth the effort to service my problem in a timely manner, and maybe
even try a bit to convert me into a future customer.

OTOH, I picked up a nice little guitar/tuner/strings/pick
and case for $16.99 (+ $19.50 s/h via UPS) from Ebay last
month. Brand new Chiwanese job, prolly better than a TJ job.
They wanted $129 for the same gitfiddle in town--3 times
the price! For -that- difference, I'll buy mail-order and
take my chances, TYVM.

Yeah - I'm not familiar with guitar stuff, so I have no idea if what you
bought can be classified as a commodity item.

To most local dealer's credit (at least around here), they'll do what
they can to match prices within reason. The smart ones tell you why
they cannot if they cannot. When I bought my lawn mower, I could have
gotten one from the Borg for $40 less than the dealer, but the dealer
does complete setup, adjustments, and made sure the machine was humming
perfectly. I didn't have to worry about buying a service manual (at
least not right away) and then spending an hour or two checking cables,
idle, and the like. The price differential was offset by the customer
service, which I value greatly.

If I were in the market for a large chain saw, I'd buy locally - mostly
because I'm not well versed in chainsaw mechanics and would prefer to
have it setup properly. But if I were buying a circular saw, well...
--
Regards,

Rick

(Remove the HIGH SPOTS for e-mail)

"Rich" wrote in message . com...
I saw this in two other groups. Are you just out to bash? Are you actually
reading the replies?


No I just post for fun and profit. hehe.

I am not bashing Husqvarna but I am posting to my 3 favorite groups. It
would be 4 groups but I dont think that alt.bread.recipes cares about 9hp
chainsaws.

If I was more aware of the dealer / mfgr situation I would of bought locally
on this purchase as this saw could require alot of service. I am using it to
mill lumber with an alaskan jig. But in the end I am glad I did not buy from
the dealer as he is really a jerk to deal with. I called the owner
personally and we had an amiable discussion but he still had the opinion
that I was just out to wreck his business by buying over the cursed
internet. I've since called other dealers and they are happy to look at it
or work on it warranty if it needs it. Only difference is I have to drive 20
miles instead of 2.

Personally I would rather have the dealer prove himself worthy of my future
business than lip service and still get bad service after buying at dealer
prices. That happened to me with John Deere.

For that I'll take the discount online, if all I have is thieves and liars
to deal with then I'll take the lowest price, just like at the car dealer.
hehe.

Rich

PS( My Lowes Poulon 49cc 20 inch saw is kicking butt. I've cut down about 19
palm trees, 1 oak and 1 hackberry plus other trimming jobs etc and I am
amazed it works so well. I did not expect much out of it so I guess I am
happy with whatever I get!)

I agree with Rich's perspective above. The internet and the Borg's
are the biggest reason why the local dealer should extend every
courtesy possible. Within reason of course. While noone can deny
that there are those that will go for the lowest price everytime, a
certain number of people will return to the service oriented dealer.
This guy just guaranteed he will make no profit from Rich. And, as
someone else pointed out, if this guy lost money on warranty work, he
wouldn't do it. If they do, they're stupid. I would venture to
guess, the profit just wasn't big enough for the guy. Which is one of
the reasons we have the Borg's. The big retail profit centers may be
monopolistic in nature, but one thing they do NOT have a monopoly
on...is greed. This is, of course, just my opinion.

Spaz

SpazMaTaz wrote:
"Rich" wrote in message . com...

I saw this in two other groups. Are you just out to bash? Are you actually
reading the replies?


No I just post for fun and profit. hehe.

I am not bashing Husqvarna but I am posting to my 3 favorite groups. It
would be 4 groups but I dont think that alt.bread.recipes cares about 9hp
chainsaws.

If I was more aware of the dealer / mfgr situation I would of bought locally
on this purchase as this saw could require alot of service. I am using it to
mill lumber with an alaskan jig. But in the end I am glad I did not buy from
the dealer as he is really a jerk to deal with. I called the owner
personally and we had an amiable discussion but he still had the opinion
that I was just out to wreck his business by buying over the cursed
internet. I've since called other dealers and they are happy to look at it
or work on it warranty if it needs it. Only difference is I have to drive 20
miles instead of 2.

Personally I would rather have the dealer prove himself worthy of my future
business than lip service and still get bad service after buying at dealer
prices. That happened to me with John Deere.

For that I'll take the discount online, if all I have is thieves and liars
to deal with then I'll take the lowest price, just like at the car dealer.
hehe.

Rich

PS( My Lowes Poulon 49cc 20 inch saw is kicking butt. I've cut down about 19
palm trees, 1 oak and 1 hackberry plus other trimming jobs etc and I am
amazed it works so well. I did not expect much out of it so I guess I am
happy with whatever I get!)


I agree with Rich's perspective above. The internet and the Borg's
are the biggest reason why the local dealer should extend every
courtesy possible. Within reason of course. While noone can deny
that there are those that will go for the lowest price everytime, a
certain number of people will return to the service oriented dealer.
This guy just guaranteed he will make no profit from Rich. And, as
someone else pointed out, if this guy lost money on warranty work, he
wouldn't do it. If they do, they're stupid. I would venture to
guess, the profit just wasn't big enough for the guy. Which is one of
the reasons we have the Borg's. The big retail profit centers may be
monopolistic in nature, but one thing they do NOT have a monopoly
on...is greed. This is, of course, just my opinion.

I agree. I like to support the local guy. I really
do. But what do you do when you consistently get
reamed by him. I went down to the local Ace to get a
30 amp 2 pole breaker. The breaker is behind a locked
glass and is blister packed. It's $26. I go to Home
Depot, 4 miles away, the breaker is open in a bin, I
can look at it, and it's $8. Where the fsk are you
going to buy your breaker?

I live in a somewhat upscale college community. The
local equipment rental place charges a hefty daily charge
including Sunday on everything. If I drive 5 miles to
the largely ag community down the road, the shop of
the very same rental chain charges 30% less and gives
Sunday free if the equipment is returned by 8AM monday.
Where would you rent?

Both the Ace store and the rental shop seem to be
quite busy so I assume their business model works for
them. It sure doesn't for me.

In , on 01/23/04
at 04:12 AM, (Roy) said:

Refusing warranty because you did ot sell it is pure bull****! If its
warranted then it should be serviced by any authorized dealer no matter
where it was purchased.

Absolutely right Roy, after all this fuss, at LAST some one has hit the
nail on the head. It's as simple as that. This thread is making America
sound like the third world!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Lloyd - Cymru/Wales

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In , on 01/23/04
at 04:25 AM, Carl Byrns said:

it might be new old stock (sat on
the shelf for three years) or some 'factory reconditioned' machine.

Doesn't matter
1 It's got the name Husqvarna on it.
2 He's got a recipt for purchase of a new saw
3 You're a Husqvarna dealer.
End of story you should do the work.
if you don't like the rates Husqvarna pay for the work, then your beef is
with Husqvarna NOT the innocent customer. Remedy? Ditch 'em & sell Stihl
or whatever, just don't blame the poor sap who bought a new saw that
doesn't work.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Lloyd - Cymru/Wales

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GTO69RA4 wrote:

In general it's always better to develop a reliationship with a
dealer when you get something like this. They'll give you
freebies, will promply work on stuff you've bought from them,

Well put.
Alpine CD changer in my wife's CRV died. Shopped around online, can get
newer version for $190. Nearest Alpine storefront lists it for $230.
Nice guy, so I tell him I'll buy from him over internet since he's
convenient, there's no shipping, and I like to support local business
when I can. Then I ask about price on him installing the Honda tape deck
I bought but never installed. He offered to show me how to get the
center console out for free so I can do it myself. Net savings there of
over $60.

Deals are deals for a variety of reasons. And in the long run, sometimes
deals aren't really deals...

Jon

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
SpazMaTaz wrote:
"Rich" wrote in message
. com...

snip---

I agree. I like to support the local guy. I really
do. But what do you do when you consistently get
reamed by him. I went down to the local Ace to get a
30 amp 2 pole breaker. The breaker is behind a locked
glass and is blister packed. It's $26. I go to Home
Depot, 4 miles away, the breaker is open in a bin, I
can look at it, and it's $8. Where the fsk are you
going to buy your breaker?

I live in a somewhat upscale college community. The
local equipment rental place charges a hefty daily charge
including Sunday on everything. If I drive 5 miles to
the largely ag community down the road, the shop of
the very same rental chain charges 30% less and gives
Sunday free if the equipment is returned by 8AM monday.
Where would you rent?

Both the Ace store and the rental shop seem to be
quite busy so I assume their business model works for
them. It sure doesn't for me.

I needed a brush hog. Local dealer wanted $800 for a 40" model, a perfect
fit for my small Kubota. A 100 mile drive yielded a brush hog for $500,
and no sales tax. Difference? 2" narrower, otherwise the same hog. No
big deal, especially when I saved $300, plus 7.7% sales tax on the $800
price. No sales tax paid on the $500 purchase.

Some folks see every sale as a retirement plan, so I can't get too excited
about supporting them. I purchased common seals from the local dude
because I was in a bind. $12 each for $6 seals. His screw the consumer
prices are outrageous, always well above market value. It's clear that
some folks do little to earn your patronage. I've tried to be a faithful
customer, but I can't afford to be. I now shop everywhere except for his
store.

Harold

John:

A little business 101 might help here.

You say Rich has a receipt for a new saw do you know for a fact that the
receipt is signed by an company authorized to sell that companies product?
Do you know for a fact how old the saw is and if Rich was the first and
only owner. Do you remember Rich metioning that he had rebuilt the carb?
Did he do that before or after speaking to the dealer about warrantee
repairs? Do you know for a fact that any warrentee that might be on that
companies equipment is transferable?

Lets get someting straight my hobby is helping people fight back against
big companies who have screwed them, and I win better than 80% of the time
and I'm not talking chump change either. However I never taken on a
company or an individual until I have all the information need to win..

I'm just as guilty as everyone else for carrying on this post to long but in
closing I don't believe any of us have enough information to be defending
Rich or attacking the dealer or the manufacturer.

There are always 2 sides to every story

Jimbo





wrote in message
ernet.com...
In , on 01/23/04
at 04:25 AM, Carl Byrns said:

it might be new old stock (sat on
the shelf for three years) or some 'factory reconditioned' machine.

Doesn't matter
1 It's got the name Husqvarna on it.
2 He's got a recipt for purchase of a new saw
3 You're a Husqvarna dealer.
End of story you should do the work.
if you don't like the rates Husqvarna pay for the work, then your beef is
with Husqvarna NOT the innocent customer. Remedy? Ditch 'em & sell Stihl
or whatever, just don't blame the poor sap who bought a new saw that
doesn't work.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------
John Lloyd - Cymru/Wales

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...

SpazMaTaz wrote:

"Rich" wrote in message

. com...

snip---

I agree. I like to support the local guy. I really
do. But what do you do when you consistently get
reamed by him. I went down to the local Ace to get a
30 amp 2 pole breaker. The breaker is behind a locked
glass and is blister packed. It's $26. I go to Home
Depot, 4 miles away, the breaker is open in a bin, I
can look at it, and it's $8. Where the fsk are you
going to buy your breaker?

I live in a somewhat upscale college community. The
local equipment rental place charges a hefty daily charge
including Sunday on everything. If I drive 5 miles to
the largely ag community down the road, the shop of
the very same rental chain charges 30% less and gives
Sunday free if the equipment is returned by 8AM monday.
Where would you rent?

Both the Ace store and the rental shop seem to be
quite busy so I assume their business model works for
them. It sure doesn't for me.


I needed a brush hog. Local dealer wanted $800 for a 40" model, a perfect
fit for my small Kubota. A 100 mile drive yielded a brush hog for $500,
and no sales tax. Difference? 2" narrower, otherwise the same hog. No
big deal, especially when I saved $300, plus 7.7% sales tax on the $800
price. No sales tax paid on the $500 purchase.

Some folks see every sale as a retirement plan, so I can't get too excited
about supporting them. I purchased common seals from the local dude
because I was in a bind. $12 each for $6 seals. His screw the consumer
prices are outrageous, always well above market value. It's clear that
some folks do little to earn your patronage. I've tried to be a faithful
customer, but I can't afford to be. I now shop everywhere except for his
store.

I have my own business and I've been in business for
about 7 years. My wife and I make a comfortable living
at it, we have some control over our destiny and we
get to *mostly* make our own rules. The three main
rules are 1) build something that works and doesn't
hurt someone. 2) tell the truth to customers, vendors
and each other. 3) price our products so that we can
make a comfortable living. I've learned that this gets
us the most consistent revenue stream and generally
keeps our customers from switching to another company
that may introduce a product with a slightly lower price.
I've tried setting a higher initial price and dropping
it later to try to get market share. It doesn't work.
The damage has already been done. On the other side of
it, I've turned down a couple of big customers because
I couldn't make a comfortable living meeting their
terms. The ability to say no is just as big of a
negotiating tool as the ability to say yes.

There are THREE sides to every story. Viewpoint A, viewpoint B, and the real
truth.

RJ

"Jimbo" . wrote in message
...
John:

A little business 101 might help here.

You say Rich has a receipt for a new saw do you know for a fact that the
receipt is signed by an company authorized to sell that companies product?
Do you know for a fact how old the saw is and if Rich was the first and
only owner. Do you remember Rich metioning that he had rebuilt the
carb?
Did he do that before or after speaking to the dealer about warrantee
repairs? Do you know for a fact that any warrentee that might be on that
companies equipment is transferable?

Lets get someting straight my hobby is helping people fight back against
big companies who have screwed them, and I win better than 80% of the time
and I'm not talking chump change either. However I never taken on a
company or an individual until I have all the information need to win..

I'm just as guilty as everyone else for carrying on this post to long but
in
closing I don't believe any of us have enough information to be defending
Rich or attacking the dealer or the manufacturer.

There are always 2 sides to every story

Jimbo





wrote in message
ernet.com...
In , on 01/23/04
at 04:25 AM, Carl Byrns said:

it might be new old stock (sat on
the shelf for three years) or some 'factory reconditioned' machine.

Doesn't matter
1 It's got the name Husqvarna on it.
2 He's got a recipt for purchase of a new saw
3 You're a Husqvarna dealer.
End of story you should do the work.
if you don't like the rates Husqvarna pay for the work, then your beef
is
with Husqvarna NOT the innocent customer. Remedy? Ditch 'em & sell Stihl
or whatever, just don't blame the poor sap who bought a new saw that
doesn't work.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------
John Lloyd - Cymru/Wales


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
I needed a brush hog. Local dealer wanted $800 for a 40" model, a
perfect
fit for my small Kubota. A 100 mile drive yielded a brush hog for $500,
and no sales tax. Difference? 2" narrower, otherwise the same hog.

We can all find exceptions. It pays to be a smart consumer and do some
homework. I can also give exceptions the other way around. I needed a
refrigerator part for the ice maker. Big store wanted $60 for the part,
Internet was $55, local guy was $40 not for the part but for a hole new
unit.
Ed

"Backlash" wrote in message
...
There are THREE sides to every story. Viewpoint A, viewpoint B, and the
real
truth.

RJ

ROTFLMAO

Harold

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
I needed a brush hog. Local dealer wanted $800 for a 40" model, a
perfect
fit for my small Kubota. A 100 mile drive yielded a brush hog for
$500,
and no sales tax. Difference? 2" narrower, otherwise the same hog.

We can all find exceptions. It pays to be a smart consumer and do some
homework. I can also give exceptions the other way around. I needed a
refrigerator part for the ice maker. Big store wanted $60 for the part,
Internet was $55, local guy was $40 not for the part but for a hole new
unit.
Ed

Yep! The key to this whole scenario is to shop. Often I've been
pleasantly surprised to find the best deal at the least likely place. and
that includes the guy you'd swear would not compete.

When you live on SS, you don't toss your money around like it's from a
bottomless well. Our lifestyle is a humble one, but we live as
comfortably as we choose, and do it on minimum money by not being wasteful
or stupid in how we use what we have. In order to do that, we have learned
to shop before we buy. It always pays benefits.

Harold

Backlash wrote:
There are THREE sides to every story. Viewpoint A, viewpoint B, and the real
truth.

True, it's like flipping a coin:
Heads, Tail or OnEdge. HTH
--
SATOR AREPO TENET OPERA ROTAS
Have 5 nice days! John
******************************
--- ILN 000.000.001 ---

You will, of course, pay the appropriate tax on your out-of state purchase,
though?

I know I always do....

I could use a brush hog too, but first the hydraulics for the front blade.
Dragging snow is tougher than pushing it.

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

I needed a brush hog. Local dealer wanted $800 for a 40" model, a
perfect
fit for my small Kubota. A 100 mile drive yielded a brush hog for $500,
and no sales tax. Difference? 2" narrower, otherwise the same hog. No
big deal, especially when I saved $300, plus 7.7% sales tax on the $800
price. No sales tax paid on the $500 purchase.

"Chuck" wrote in message
...
snip-----------

.. Then, in the last go-'round, when
prices dropped back down 20-cents or so, his stayed high.
Consequently, I stopped buying my gas there. Then, one day I stopped
and asked, with all due respect, why their price had previously
reflected that of the same brand station in the next town, but this
time had stayed high? His reply? "Go down there and buy your gas."

Done deal, and for ever. Any time I find a business that has that kind of
attitude, I not only don't patronize them, but I make sure that others
understand their attitude. There's nothing like negative advertising to
sink a business, and it's the cheapest and easiest advertising a person can
get, with plenty to go around. All it takes is a go-to-hell attitude
displayed to the consumer like the example above.

So, guess who _doesn't_ get my 3-5 fillups a week now?

Small wonder! g

Interestingly, a local hardware store recently learned how to sharpen their
pencil. A few years back I needed some damp proofing for the foundation
of the shop. They wanted double the price asked at Home Depot. The 50
mile drive one way was worth the trip because we needed a few pails. Of
late, however, they seem in tune with more reasonable pricing and we've been
spending our money with them. Smart business people don't rely on
screwing the consumer if they want to be in business tomorrow. All too
many of them chase business away that way. For the most part, they're now
getting a wakeup call in our community. HD is going to open a local store,
and Wal-Mart has one of the largest stores in the western US near us.
There's considerable bitching, but it's going to get things on an even keel
here. In the end, more of the local dollars will remain here, instead of
going to other communities where prices are reasonable.

Harold

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:26:50 GMT, Rick Chamberlain
wrote:

Good for you Carl. So tell that to my Toro dealer who told me point
blank that he does get a higher rate for those items he doesn't sell.
Perhaps he's a master service dealer?

Or he's tweaking your nose g.
I checked with our Comsumer Products Service Manager- here's how it
works:
"Authorized" Toro dealers do not have to work on any machine they
didn't sell and cannot warranty repair any product line they don't
sell. So if a hardware store only sells Toro leaf blowers, they cannot
do warranty work on a Toro lawn mower. Fair enough.

Toro "Master Service" dealers can do warranty work on any
non-commercial equipment and must accept any warranty work that comes
in the door. If the equipment was purchased from a 'big box' store
(one without a service department), the dealer will get a small
incentive spiff in addition to the normal repair payment. There is no
higher labor rate. If the equipment was purchased from another Toro
dealer, there is no spiff.

Toro Commercial distributors cannot do any sales or repair on consumer
goods.

HTH.

-Carl

In article ,
says...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:26:50 GMT, Rick Chamberlain
wrote:

Good for you Carl. So tell that to my Toro dealer who told me point
blank that he does get a higher rate for those items he doesn't sell.
Perhaps he's a master service dealer?

Or he's tweaking your nose g.

Hehe. He usually doesn't do that unless its Friday at quitting time...
:-)

I checked with our Comsumer Products Service Manager- here's how it
works:
"Authorized" Toro dealers do not have to work on any machine they
didn't sell and cannot warranty repair any product line they don't
sell. So if a hardware store only sells Toro leaf blowers, they cannot
do warranty work on a Toro lawn mower. Fair enough.

Toro "Master Service" dealers can do warranty work on any
non-commercial equipment and must accept any warranty work that comes
in the door. If the equipment was purchased from a 'big box' store
(one without a service department), the dealer will get a small
incentive spiff in addition to the normal repair payment. There is no
higher labor rate. If the equipment was purchased from another Toro
dealer, there is no spiff.

Toro Commercial distributors cannot do any sales or repair on consumer
goods.

Interesting. I didn't see any of this on the Toro site - I wonder if
they spell it out in the warranty language or in the user manuals for
the machines?

Thanks for the clarification.
--
Regards,

Rick

(Remove the HIGH SPOTS for e-mail)

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Chuck" wrote in message
...
snip-----------

. Then, in the last go-'round, when
prices dropped back down 20-cents or so, his stayed high.
Consequently, I stopped buying my gas there. Then, one day I stopped
and asked, with all due respect, why their price had previously
reflected that of the same brand station in the next town, but this
time had stayed high? His reply? "Go down there and buy your gas."

Done deal, and for ever. Any time I find a business that has that kind
of
attitude, I not only don't patronize them, but I make sure that others
understand their attitude. There's nothing like negative advertising
to
sink a business, and it's the cheapest and easiest advertising a person
can
get, with plenty to go around. All it takes is a go-to-hell attitude
displayed to the consumer like the example above.

Mother in law owns the small town (500) paper. Town grocery decided it
wasn't worth advertising in the paper for $300 for the month. Mom stopped
buying food there. Any guesses on how much a family with 6 kids spends at
the grocery?

Joel. phx

"George" wrote in message
...
You will, of course, pay the appropriate tax on your out-of state
purchase,
though?

I know I always do....

Oh, yeah! I'm always the first guy in line on Monday morning. I consider
it an honor to be paying taxes in a state that is near the highest one in
the nation in taxation and can't find enough reasons or ways to get them
even higher. That isn't preventing them from trying, though.

I could use a brush hog too, but first the hydraulics for the front blade.
Dragging snow is tougher than pushing it.

Good luck with that project. The best scenario is to live where there's
no snow. Notice I don't practice what I preach? g

Harold

In article , Here's an idea says...

Mother in law owns the small town (500) paper. Town grocery decided it
wasn't worth advertising in the paper for $300 for the month. Mom stopped
buying food there. Any guesses on how much a family with 6 kids spends at
the grocery?

Ha, that's *nothing*. What about the time the local
liquor store gave my mom the wrong change from a 20,
and denied gyping her?

That place went out of business a couple of years later.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Here's an idea" wrote in message
...
snip---

Mother in law owns the small town (500) paper. Town grocery decided it
wasn't worth advertising in the paper for $300 for the month. Mom stopped
buying food there. Any guesses on how much a family with 6 kids spends at
the grocery?

Joel. phx

Talk about biting the hand the feeds you!

Harold

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:27:43 -0800, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:


I agree. I like to support the local guy. I really
do. But what do you do when you consistently get
reamed by him.

Hmmm, I'm asking myself the same question as I look at fuel prices.
Our biggest local dealer, who used to be a mom & pop of long-standing
in the community, was purchased by "city people," a couple of years
ago, (literally, NYC "investors") and now refuses to deliver anything
less than 150 gal. at a pop, and at nearly $1.60/gal this is a bit
much for *many* people in this tiny burg to cough up at a time (myself
included, sometimes). Their excuse is, "With everybody only buying
100 gallons at a time, we can't keep up with the deliveries." Huh??
A competitor will gladly deliver of theirs will gladly deliver less.

A survey of local kerosene prices (at the pump) yields $1.95/gal for
the "local guy" and $1.63/gal for the town 11 miles away (further
south, that is). I've been asking myself for several years now, since
our local grocery chain started charging "screw you" prices year
'round, rather than just in the summer, "When did the local, small
business model become &$#@* the Locals?"

Some folks see every sale as a retirement plan, so I can't get too excited
about supporting them.

Amen! Another local fuel dealer, this one a gas station, (also owned
by a transplanted city dude, oddly enough..hmmm, notice a trend?) was
on the gas roller coaster recently, but keeping prices apace with the
larger community down the road. Then, in the last go-'round, when
prices dropped back down 20-cents or so, his stayed high.
Consequently, I stopped buying my gas there. Then, one day I stopped
and asked, with all due respect, why their price had previously
reflected that of the same brand station in the next town, but this
time had stayed high? His reply? "Go down there and buy your gas."
So, guess who _doesn't_ get my 3-5 fillups a week now?


--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

I learned that lesson from a former employee years ago. He told of working
for an old guy who sent him out for some item to purchase. When the guy
returned with his purchase and showed the old guy the price, the guy asked
him what the other two prices were.. Employee said "HUH?" That has always
stuck with me, and getting at least 3 prices for anything over around $50 is
now what I do.

RJ

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
I needed a brush hog. Local dealer wanted $800 for a 40" model, a
perfect
fit for my small Kubota. A 100 mile drive yielded a brush hog for
$500,
and no sales tax. Difference? 2" narrower, otherwise the same hog.

We can all find exceptions. It pays to be a smart consumer and do some
homework. I can also give exceptions the other way around. I needed a
refrigerator part for the ice maker. Big store wanted $60 for the part,
Internet was $55, local guy was $40 not for the part but for a hole new
unit.
Ed

Yep! The key to this whole scenario is to shop. Often I've been
pleasantly surprised to find the best deal at the least likely place. and
that includes the guy you'd swear would not compete.

When you live on SS, you don't toss your money around like it's from a
bottomless well. Our lifestyle is a humble one, but we live as
comfortably as we choose, and do it on minimum money by not being wasteful
or stupid in how we use what we have. In order to do that, we have
learned
to shop before we buy. It always pays benefits.

Harold

In article , Backlash says...

I learned that lesson from a former employee years ago. He told of working
for an old guy who sent him out for some item to purchase. When the guy
returned with his purchase and showed the old guy the price, the guy asked
him what the other two prices were.. Employee said "HUH?" That has always
stuck with me, and getting at least 3 prices for anything over around $50 is
now what I do.

Ha ha ha. I would definitely bet a hundred dollars, that if the
same guy went out and did comparison shopping, and found the best
price by going to three different sources, and saved his boss
ten percent on the purchase of a $500 item, the first words out
of the bosses mouth when he arrived back at the shop would be:


W H E R E T H E H E L L H A V E Y O U

B E E N A L L D A M N D A Y !!!!!!


Bosses tend only see the downside to certain employee
pracices. :^)

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Jimbo . wrote:
I really be interested to know how much Rich paid for his chain saw
including taxes and shipping? Then I'd like him to tell us what his local
dealership was asking for the same exact unit? Then I would like him to
post the model and serial number of the saw so that some knowledgable person
on this group can tell all of us what a fair price would be for the same
unit purchased through a local dealer.

I'd almost be willing to bet the difference in price won't add up to any
more than it will cost him for 1 hours service at full shop rate to get the
saw running properly.

About 10 minutes after you posted this, Rich indicated that the saw was a
9HP chainsaw for using on an Alaskan mill. That means its a model 3120XP.
A 3120XP with a 36" bar and chain is available for $1179 + $2.50 s&h with no
sales tax from southwestfastener.com. The same package is $1199 from
alamia.com with free s&h and no sales tax. If you're willing to order
from Canada you can easily do $100 better. Both of the dealers listed above
are Husqvarna dealers and the US warranty is valid on all Husqvarna saws
purchased from Canadian dealers.

Unless Rich lives in Oregon or Washington, the local dealers probably
aren't going to stock this saw. They will special order it and he
would have to wait a minimum of a week to get it. If they are like
most of the local shops around me, they are going to sell it for MSRP
plus or minus 5%. MSRP on this saw is $1399.95 for the power head
only. A 36" bar and chain from a local dealer will run you another
$120 or so. The *sales tax* you'd pay the local dealer would most
likely cost more than an hours worth of labor.

Rich probably would have paid an extra ~$400 dollars to possibly get good
service from his dealer. However, he might not have gotten significantly
better service either...

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:11:05 GMT, Rick Chamberlain
brought forth from the murky depths:

In article , Larry Jaques

I tell you what, after this, I'll check every manufacturer's
warranty much more closely before purchasing their items.

I hope I didn't sound too rash in my prior comments - it raises my
hackles when I hear of customer service fiascos like this one.

I decided to check the warranty language on Husky's web site, and the
language says clearly that all servicing dealers must perform warranty
service work, whether you have a receipt or not, and whether you are the
original owner or not. Nowhere in the language did it say that if you
bought it from an unauthorized source that you'd be denied warranty
service.

Where the 'ell did you find the warranty info on the Husky site?
I looked at the registration pages, did a search, etc. and in 15
minutes had not been able to find anything except the 15-day money
back guarantee, the Husqvarna Crown Commitment. The searches under
both product and manuals for "warranty" turned up empty.


Agreed. I hope Carl doesn't think that I buy everything from the web
and expect my local service shops to bend over backwards. But when I do
buy from the web and have a warranty problem, I expect that they'd put
forth the effort to service my problem in a timely manner, and maybe
even try a bit to convert me into a future customer.

Perzactly.


------------------------------------------------------
No matter how hard you try, you cannot baptize a cat.
----------------------------
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
---------------------------------------------------

In article , Larry Jaques
says...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:11:05 GMT, Rick Chamberlain
brought forth from the murky depths:

Where the 'ell did you find the warranty info on the Husky site?
I looked at the registration pages, did a search, etc. and in 15
minutes had not been able to find anything except the 15-day money
back guarantee, the Husqvarna Crown Commitment. The searches under
both product and manuals for "warranty" turned up empty.

Found it under one of the chainsaws. Once there, I downloaded the
owners manual. Not sure if this link will work, but give it a shot.
It's for the 3120XP saw (watch the wrap):

http://weborder.husqvarna.com/order_...2001/HOUS2001_
1019187-95.pdf


Agreed. I hope Carl doesn't think that I buy everything from the web
and expect my local service shops to bend over backwards. But when I do
buy from the web and have a warranty problem, I expect that they'd put
forth the effort to service my problem in a timely manner, and maybe
even try a bit to convert me into a future customer.

Perzactly.


--
Regards,

Rick

(Remove the HIGH SPOTS for e-mail)

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 00:13:09 GMT, (Chuck)
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:27:43 -0800, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:

Amen! Another local fuel dealer, this one a gas station, (also owned
by a transplanted city dude, oddly enough..hmmm, notice a trend?) was
on the gas roller coaster recently, but keeping prices apace with the
larger community down the road. Then, in the last go-'round, when
prices dropped back down 20-cents or so, his stayed high.
Consequently, I stopped buying my gas there. Then, one day I stopped
and asked, with all due respect, why their price had previously
reflected that of the same brand station in the next town, but this
time had stayed high? His reply? "Go down there and buy your gas."
So, guess who _doesn't_ get my 3-5 fillups a week now?

No excuse for bad attitude, but gas prices are an odd case. Assume a
station buys 3,000 gallons at a time (pretty typical). They sell it at
a price that is usually 1-5 cents above their invoice (plus all the
taxes). If the price of gas goes up 3 cents and they were selling at 2
cents over cost they have to dig into profit from other sales to cover
the increase, but they can recoup that as they sell the new load. The
problem comes when the price starts to drop. If the station across the
street buys a new load that is 6 cents cheaper and cuts their retail
price while you still have 2,000 gallons in the tanks you are pretty
much up the proverbial creek sans paddle. If you price match the guy
across the street you lose money on every gallon you sell. If you
don't it takes forever to empty your tank and refill with cheaper gas.
Most stations split the difference.

Most of the c-store gas stations actually sell their gas at almost no
profit because they make the money on beer and cigs. The low gas price
is just to get you in the door. Stations that sell gas and do
mechanical work can also keep their prices lower. The ones that only
sell gas usually have the highest prices because they have to make
enough profit to run the business, and that will depend on volume and
the local competition.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On 23 Jan 2004 16:00:19 -0800, jim rozen
brought forth from the murky depths:

In article , Here's an idea says...

Mother in law owns the small town (500) paper. Town grocery decided it
wasn't worth advertising in the paper for $300 for the month. Mom stopped
buying food there. Any guesses on how much a family with 6 kids spends at
the grocery?

Ha, that's *nothing*. What about the time the local
liquor store gave my mom the wrong change from a 20,
and denied gyping her?

That place went out of business a couple of years later.

Wow! Your mom sure must be a heavy drinker to single-handedly
close a liquor store!

(Seagrams and Coors both nearly went tits-up when I quit.)


------------------------------------------------------
No matter how hard you try, you cannot baptize a cat.
----------------------------
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
---------------------------------------------------

In article , Larry Jaques says...

Wow! Your mom sure must be a heavy drinker to single-handedly
close a liquor store!

She has a lot of friends in town.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article ,
Here's an idea wrote:

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Chuck" wrote in message
...
snip-----------

. Then, in the last go-'round, when
prices dropped back down 20-cents or so, his stayed high.
Consequently, I stopped buying my gas there. Then, one day I stopped
and asked, with all due respect, why their price had previously
reflected that of the same brand station in the next town, but this
time had stayed high? His reply? "Go down there and buy your gas."

Done deal, and for ever. Any time I find a business that has that kind
of
attitude, I not only don't patronize them, but I make sure that others
understand their attitude. There's nothing like negative advertising
to
sink a business, and it's the cheapest and easiest advertising a person
can
get, with plenty to go around. All it takes is a go-to-hell attitude
displayed to the consumer like the example above.

Mother in law owns the small town (500) paper. Town grocery decided it
wasn't worth advertising in the paper for $300 for the month. Mom stopped
buying food there. Any guesses on how much a family with 6 kids spends at
the grocery?

If they shop efficiently, in the $250-300/month range. However, grocery
stores are a _low_ margin operation. 4% gross profit is a "healthy" store.
that $300 of revenues means maybe $10-12 gross profits.

Then, there's the _other_ side of the story. The town I grew up in was
considerably bigger -- metro area circa 250,000 -- but it was a one-
newspaper town. Just after the Korean conflict, the paper raised it's
ad rates significantly. The local owner of three grocery stores went
in to 'talk about it'. The paper said, in almost so many words, "If you
don't like our rates, advertise in another newspaper". He pulled _all_
his newspaper advertising. Eliminated 'advertising' as a line-item in
his budget. *REDUCED* his shelf prices by the amount of the expense
reduction. Sent a one-time mailing to every household in town, announcing
why he wouldn't be running any more newspaper ads, what he'd done with
his prices, and asking people to patronize his stores. 15 years later,
he had 10 stores in town, and the _smallest_ of his stores did twice
the volume of the next-largest store in town.

Since that time, they've run a newspaper ad precisely _once_. And _never_
done any radio or TV advertising. The one occasion was to mark the opening
of a new "showplace" store -- lots of exotic vegetables, etc. And more than
twice the square footage of any prior store.

They bought one full-page ad, and the newspaper ran a THREE PAGE (three _full_
pages, including the entire front page of the 'family' section) "feature"
story about the new store. (Yes, the newspaper management was _drooling_
at the thought that they might start behaving like a 'regular' grocery
again -- picking up several full pages of ads every week.)

They're a _strange_ operation. They don't advertise -- that one newspaper
ad was the *only* piece of paid-for advertising they've done in more than
FIFTY YEARS now. They don't even hang sale signs in the windows. Or
have sale flyers in the store. Their prices are generally stable/predictable,
and -- except for 'loss-leader' sale items at other stores -- usually lower
than at the competition. Combined with superior customer-service (would you
believe that they _still_ have the 'bag boys' take groceries to your car
and load 'em for you?), it's a _very_ successful model.