I have an opportunity to buy high quality drill bits really cheap.
But since I already have a bunch of cheap Chinese bits from HF and I am
pretty much satisfied with them so I wonder if I even need these hight
quality bits. I remember reading on this forum about big difference
between good bits and cheap once.

Can anyone explain what exactly the difference is?

Thanks,
Alex

Alex wrote:

I have an opportunity to buy high quality drill bits really cheap.
But since I already have a bunch of cheap Chinese bits from HF and I am
pretty much satisfied with them so I wonder if I even need these hight
quality bits. I remember reading on this forum about big difference
between good bits and cheap once.

I can tell you what I think the difference is.

With a cheap drill, the first time you drill
a hole in steel and let the steel work-harden
before you've finished the hole, you've dulled
or destroyed the cheap drill.

Quality drills keep going and are far more
forgiving of drilling in a work-hardened hole.

Alex wrote:

I have an opportunity to buy high quality drill bits really cheap.
But since I already have a bunch of cheap Chinese bits from HF and I am
pretty much satisfied with them so I wonder if I even need these hight
quality bits. I remember reading on this forum about big difference
between good bits and cheap once.

Can anyone explain what exactly the difference is?

Thanks,
Alex



Cheap has many different levels..from drill bits that unwind, to bits
that snap right off to bits improperly ground. You may find a handful
of cheapos that are better than most and actually work, but that is a
rarity..even with ever increasing quality from India and China.

The real value of a GOOD set of drill bits is seriously reduced hassle
level. A good bit cuts soooooo much better than a bad one that it's
like night and day. Where the better end of "bad" may take a couple of
minutes, a lot of energy and do a lousy job drilling through a part, the
good end of good will cut through like butter in 1/10 the time, still be
useful after, and give a better hole.

Better to have a few good bits than a whole set of mediocre bits.

It gets worse with taps and dies, which don't yet seem to have developed
a good end of bad...cheap China and India stuff is REALLY bad when it
comes to these cutting tools.

Note that there are always exceptions to every rule..someone somewhere
here probably swears by cheapies....it's just not me.

Koz

the quality of the metal.
the quality of the grinding / sharpening.
accuracy of the size.

A poor quality drill bit may be improperly ground which can give you an
eccentric hole of the wrong size.

On 9 Jan 2006 15:25:48 -0800, "Alex" wrote:

I have an opportunity to buy high quality drill bits really cheap.
But since I already have a bunch of cheap Chinese bits from HF and I am
pretty much satisfied with them so I wonder if I even need these hight
quality bits. I remember reading on this forum about big difference
between good bits and cheap once.

Can anyone explain what exactly the difference is?

Thanks,
Alex

Here is a cheap drill bit. I bent with my fingers.

http://www.viatrack.ca/Misc/DRILBIT.jpg



Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see:
Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) http://www.viatrack.ca

void _-void-_ in the obvious place

Koz is right....in tooling such as drill bits it is buyer beware.

An example....this Christmas I bought a dozen sets of HSS drill bits
from of all places Sears. They were made in the USA and supposely
exceed the Fed spec GGG-D-751. Using them indicates that they are good
bits. Bear in mind that these bits were discontinued and I got them for
about 1/10 of any others I have found on sale...including the Chinese
stuff. It was a matter of being in the right place at the right time.

Sears has replaced them with drill bits made in China...for an
experiment I bought a set of the new bits and tried them versus the old
discontinued ones. No comparison...the new Chinese offerings are no
match for the older bits. Now if one checks the package literature
carefully you will find that the new Chinese bits are not HSS...a very
important feature that Sears goes to great trouble to keep you from
learning.

Are all Sears drill bits bad? Well it depends. The buyer needs to be
educated and be aware that sellers will try to mislead you for a
sale...many times using a low price as the carrot. My approach is to
buy some and try them out....the bad ones will soon show themselves.
Differences in geometry and metallurgy all make a difference and come
at a price.



TMT

"Alex" wrote in message
ups.com...

Can anyone explain what exactly the difference is?


Alex,

If you can get you hands on some tool or alloy steel, you'll see the
difference rapidly. Mild steel and many common non-ferrous materials are
very forgiving. If you run your cheap bits conservatively in these
materials, you probably won't have trouble. Industry however has no time for
"conservatively" and we don't get to choose the "forgiving" materials so
good bits that don't get dull after one hole in D2 are a requirement.

Regards,

Robin

My experience (not extensive, but, still, it's mine :-) is that chinese
tools cut for crap. From drill bits to band saw blades. Now, what I
have found is that the chinese caliper, for exqample, is in fact
accurate to the stated 0.0005 (used a $125 USA to check the three I
purchased for $15 each). Also, as long as your not holding tollerances
to 0.0001, most all of the gauge blocke, right angle plates, etc that I
have purchased check out to be perfectly fine...left unprotected, they
will rust and corrode quicker, but that can be controlled....Just my 2
cents

Now, what I
have found is that the chinese caliper, for exqample, is in fact
accurate to the stated 0.0005 (used a $125 USA to check the three I
purchased for $15 each).

No, they're not. calipers by their very design are not accurate to .0005.
Yes, that's what the dial reads, but if you're trying to get closer than a
couple of thou, you best be using your mikes.

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
Koz is right....in tooling such as drill bits it is buyer beware.

An example....this Christmas I bought a dozen sets of HSS drill bits
from of all places Sears. They were made in the USA and supposely
exceed the Fed spec GGG-D-751. Using them indicates that they are good
bits. Bear in mind that these bits were discontinued and I got them for
about 1/10 of any others I have found on sale...including the Chinese
stuff. It was a matter of being in the right place at the right time.

Sears has replaced them with drill bits made in China...for an
experiment I bought a set of the new bits and tried them versus the old
discontinued ones. No comparison...the new Chinese offerings are no
match for the older bits. Now if one checks the package literature
carefully you will find that the new Chinese bits are not HSS...a very
important feature that Sears goes to great trouble to keep you from
learning.

Are all Sears drill bits bad? Well it depends. The buyer needs to be
educated and be aware that sellers will try to mislead you for a
sale...many times using a low price as the carrot. My approach is to
buy some and try them out....the bad ones will soon show themselves.
Differences in geometry and metallurgy all make a difference and come
at a price.



TMT


I was at Sears yesterday and saw some one set of HSS drill bits (little red
plastic case) on sale that sade made in the USA. The newer version said
made in China. The Cobalt and Titanium ones said made in the USA of USA and
import parts. I am hoping it's the case that is made elsewhere.

Thanks for the suggestion, as I was going to buy the $60 set of HSS Steel
bits, but no more.

Thanks!!

"Robin S." wrote in message
.. .

"Alex" wrote in message
ups.com...

Can anyone explain what exactly the difference is?


Alex,

If you can get you hands on some tool or alloy steel, you'll see the
difference rapidly. Mild steel and many common non-ferrous materials are
very forgiving. If you run your cheap bits conservatively in these
materials, you probably won't have trouble. Industry however has no time
for
"conservatively" and we don't get to choose the "forgiving" materials so
good bits that don't get dull after one hole in D2 are a requirement.

Regards,

Robin



Great explanation!!

""I was at Sears yesterday and saw some one set of HSS drill bits
(little red
plastic case) on sale that sade made in the USA. The newer version
said
made in China. The Cobalt and Titanium ones said made in the USA of
USA and
import parts. I am hoping it's the case that is made elsewhere.

Thanks for the suggestion, as I was going to buy the $60 set of HSS
Steel
bits, but no more.

Thanks!! "

Sounds like the arrangement I found...Sears is discontinuing the one
set of HS drills and replacing them with Chinese bits that apparently
at not HSS...at least they were not marked as such and from my tests
were not comparable to the older discontinued set.

The cobalt and titanium sets were noted as USA made.

FYI...I got my sets for $1 each AND 20% off that...a very good
price....I bought every set they had.

TMT

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
ups.com...
""I was at Sears yesterday and saw some one set of HSS drill bits
(little red
plastic case) on sale that sade made in the USA. The newer version
said
made in China. The Cobalt and Titanium ones said made in the USA of
USA and
import parts. I am hoping it's the case that is made elsewhere.

Thanks for the suggestion, as I was going to buy the $60 set of HSS
Steel
bits, but no more.

Thanks!! "

Sounds like the arrangement I found...Sears is discontinuing the one
set of HS drills and replacing them with Chinese bits that apparently
at not HSS...at least they were not marked as such and from my tests
were not comparable to the older discontinued set.

The cobalt and titanium sets were noted as USA made.

FYI...I got my sets for $1 each AND 20% off that...a very good
price....I bought every set they had.

TMT


They had a lot of the little 10 piece and 13 piece kits before Christmas.
The one ten piece set I saw the other day was $8.97. The 13 piece kits
around Christmas were about $10, I think. If I had known the difference, I
would have just bought the little kits to have SOME decent smaller sized
bits. I don't remember seeing anything about HSS on the 21 piece kit I was
looking at (newer style, no 29 piece kit in stock, and I am thankful they
didn't, or I would have bought it).

I bought one 5/8" cobalt drill bit a little over a year ago. After using
POS bits my whole life (and a few single bit Titaanium Craftsman bit
purchases in the last couple of years), I finally found out a difference in
quality!

I would have bought every set they had at that price, too! You will always
need some, and you will never be ableto find them any cheaper, so why not
buy them out? :-)

Thanks.

Hi Dave,

Not following ya here. I have purchased precision Brown and Sharp
1-2-3 blocks, they all read, 1-2-3 to the 1.000 with the last +/-
0.0005 stuck on zero. I have found that the secret to using calipers
is to wiggle them into the product you are measuring while you apply a
bit of pressure (light) on it, take the smallest reading you get, and
that is the diameter. Now, i am not a machinist, won't be for 20 more
years I imagine, so no argument intended here, just don't follow ya.
Wouldn't I expect to get variance from 1.000 on any of the "Chinese"
calipers if they weren't as accurate as they are stated to be? Not
talking tenths here, just the stated "round to the nearest 0.0005".

My initial statements were more geared towards a comparison of dollars
spent for unit of quality...very high for Chinese cutting tools
compared to the same Chinese parallels, squares, calipers etc...

Thoughts? Love to get more edumacated :-)

John

Replying to the Subject:

Cheap drill bits ARE only good once, if that.



----------------------------------------------
Never attempt to traverse a chasm in two leaps
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Design
================================================== =========

"CAMCOMPCO" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi Dave,

Not following ya here. I have purchased precision Brown and Sharp
1-2-3 blocks, they all read, 1-2-3 to the 1.000 with the last +/-
0.0005 stuck on zero. I have found that the secret to using calipers
is to wiggle them into the product you are measuring while you apply a
bit of pressure (light) on it, take the smallest reading you get, and
that is the diameter. Now, i am not a machinist, won't be for 20 more
years I imagine, so no argument intended here, just don't follow ya.
Wouldn't I expect to get variance from 1.000 on any of the "Chinese"
calipers if they weren't as accurate as they are stated to be? Not
talking tenths here, just the stated "round to the nearest 0.0005".


You actually are talking tenths. If a drawing specifies +/-.001", a measured
dimension of +.0011 is out of tolerance. Obviously if your calipers read to
only five tenths, they'd probably tell you +.001" which would be wrong.

Ideally, your measuring instrument should be ten times more accurate than
the tolerance it's evaluating. Sometimes this will drop to between two and
five, depending on the actual tolerance, method of measurement, speed, etc.,
etc., etc.

Regards,

Robin

"Name" wrote in message
news:_2pxf.723389$xm3.542192@attbi_s21...

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
ups.com...
""I was at Sears yesterday and saw some one set of HSS drill bits
(little red
plastic case) on sale that sade made in the USA. The newer version
said
made in China. The Cobalt and Titanium ones said made in the USA of
USA and
import parts. I am hoping it's the case that is made elsewhere.

Thanks for the suggestion, as I was going to buy the $60 set of HSS
Steel
bits, but no more.

Thanks!! "

Sounds like the arrangement I found...Sears is discontinuing the one
set of HS drills and replacing them with Chinese bits that apparently
at not HSS...at least they were not marked as such and from my tests
were not comparable to the older discontinued set.

The cobalt and titanium sets were noted as USA made.

FYI...I got my sets for $1 each AND 20% off that...a very good
price....I bought every set they had.

TMT


They had a lot of the little 10 piece and 13 piece kits before Christmas.
The one ten piece set I saw the other day was $8.97. The 13 piece kits
around Christmas were about $10, I think. If I had known the difference,
I
would have just bought the little kits to have SOME decent smaller sized
bits. I don't remember seeing anything about HSS on the 21 piece kit I was
looking at (newer style, no 29 piece kit in stock, and I am thankful they
didn't, or I would have bought it).

I bought one 5/8" cobalt drill bit a little over a year ago. After using
POS bits my whole life (and a few single bit Titaanium Craftsman bit
purchases in the last couple of years), I finally found out a difference
in
quality!

I would have bought every set they had at that price, too! You will
always
need some, and you will never be ableto find them any cheaper, so why not
buy them out? :-)

Thanks.



UPDATE:

I went to Sears and they had the 29 piece (regular) drill bits in stock.
The website states that they ARE HSS. They are model number 64083. I
looked on the box, and the packaging stated the same thing as the newer
style 29 - piece Cobalt and Titanium Nitride kits, that they are made in the
USA of US and foreign materials. I hope the box is what is made of foreign
materials. The 21 piece (normal) drill bit kit DID say made in China on it.

The local Sears had several sets of the "MADE IN THE USA" red, plastic cased
HSS drill bits for sale on the reduced price aisle.