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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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BANDSAW power, so what would be my best options for powering this machine HELP!
I got a lot of mixed results in regards to gear reducer drives, VFD's
and jack shafts in regards to my powering up my home brew bandsaw. I had thought I could do it with my 1.5 hp DC motor and a gear reducer and jackshaft, but then along came the VFD's etc........Not looking to spend a ton of money of course but not necessarily looking to cut corners either. I want it to be useable in the home shop for metal cutting mainly with wood and other materials secondary. Anyone have any offerings as to how or what would be the best yet most economical way to power this bandsaw? Specs....3 wheels (12" approx diam 37.75" circumferance) Preferable speeds for metal cutting and hopefully speeds for wood cutting as well. I found a neat crank type gear reducer however it may be a bit to light for this job. Its at the below link on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=26 227 I am at the point I need to decide how I am going to power this thing, so any info would be appreciated. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. |
#2
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BANDSAW power, so what would be my best options for poweringthis machine HELP!
There is an article in the current "Home Shop Machinist" on converting
a wood bandsaw to cutting metal. It uses a belt reducing system with an idler wheel to increase belt contact so the belts don't slip. - GWE Roy wrote: I got a lot of mixed results in regards to gear reducer drives, VFD's and jack shafts in regards to my powering up my home brew bandsaw. I had thought I could do it with my 1.5 hp DC motor and a gear reducer and jackshaft, but then along came the VFD's etc........Not looking to spend a ton of money of course but not necessarily looking to cut corners either. I want it to be useable in the home shop for metal cutting mainly with wood and other materials secondary. Anyone have any offerings as to how or what would be the best yet most economical way to power this bandsaw? Specs....3 wheels (12" approx diam 37.75" circumferance) Preferable speeds for metal cutting and hopefully speeds for wood cutting as well. I found a neat crank type gear reducer however it may be a bit to light for this job. Its at the below link on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=26 227 I am at the point I need to decide how I am going to power this thing, so any info would be appreciated. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. |
#3
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BANDSAW power, so what would be my best options for powering this machine HELP!
As you know, the import bandsaws use a worm and wheel for speed
reduction. Is fabricating something like that out of the question? Actually, I guess it would be difficult to switch it in and out of the drive train to move between metal and wood cutting speeds. Did you abandon the DC motor because you got sidetracked with the VFD idea? The DC motor sounds like the most viable set up to me. Have you done any tests with it to see if it loses torque at low RPMs? -- "There cannot possibly be a god in heaven watching all of this calmly." -- Revi Shankar ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#4
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BANDSAW power, so what would be my best options for powering this machine HELP!
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 23:14:35 -0500, Artemia Salina
wrote: ===As you know, the import bandsaws use a worm and wheel for speed ===reduction. Is fabricating something like that out of the question? ===Actually, I guess it would be difficult to switch it in and out of ===the drive train to move between metal and wood cutting speeds. === ===Did you abandon the DC motor because you got sidetracked with the ===VFD idea? The DC motor sounds like the most viable set up to me. ===Have you done any tests with it to see if it loses torque at low ===RPMs? The DC motor I have is rated on the data plate at 5100 rpm, and to bring that down to a useable rpm with a gear reducer and jack shaft is really not a feasible idea once I started to think about it. I would have to get that motor down around 1400 to 1700 rpm for most gear reducers, so I am already at a pretty low rate of speed and power with the DC motor I have. A 1745 or 1800 rpm ( or even lower rpm) motor puts me in that range already at a much higher torque , and reducing that down or through a gear reducer seems more feasible, espeically if coupled to a VFD. I really do not know, but I don;t want to do and undo something as I would rather do it right to start if its possible. I am figuring (actually guessing) I should be able to use a 2 hp VFD, with a gear reducer of 40 or 60:1 and a jackshaft to get the speeds and torque that would be satisfactory, but even my guessing is just an uneducated shot in the dark! I just do not have any faith in a used treadmill motor on something such as this. Making a worm gear setup is beyond my capabilites. I guess I would be happy to just use it for metal as thats my main concern, as I am not into doing any real woodworking per se, and I imagine it would cut wood to some degree with a wood cutting type blade. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. |
#5
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BANDSAW power, so what would be my best options for powering this machine HELP!
In article ,
Roy wrote: I got a lot of mixed results in regards to gear reducer drives, VFD's and jack shafts in regards to my powering up my home brew bandsaw. [ ... ] Anyone have any offerings as to how or what would be the best yet most economical way to power this bandsaw? Specs....3 wheels (12" approx diam 37.75" circumferance) Preferable speeds for metal cutting and hopefully speeds for wood cutting as well. Hmm ... since it is a three-wheel bandsaw, you might consider something like the Emco three-wheeler that I have. It has three speeds, two for wood and non-ferrous metals, and one for ferrous metals. The first two are driven by relatively small pully grooves in the hub of the third wheel. The lowest speed is driven by a pulley groove at nearly the full diameter of the bottom wheel. The groove is deep enough so the top of the belt is just below the top of the tire which drives the belt. All three wheels are made of a fiber-filled plastic, and all have rubber crowned tires which lock into grooves on the wheels. The motor pivots from side to side on the backplate, and is clamped in position once the belt is tight. (The swing direction which tightens it for the first wheel loosens it for the other.) It happens to use a very skinny and long V-belt -- perhaps a 4mm or so. Emco seems to like that belt width. I would use a wider belt, personally. You might be able to adapt this idea. I don't know for sure. Note that even with the extreme belt speed reduction, the slowest speed is a bit on the high side for steel, and on the higher speeds, the motor is fairly easily loaded down just cutting wood (admittedly with a blade better suited for metal cutting.) Good Luck, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#6
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BANDSAW power, so what would be my best options for powering this machine HELP!
Roy, as I stated before, the bandsaw I have at work runs almost 100% of the
time at 125 FPM blade speed, with an 18 tooth blade on it for metal cutting. When we need to cut a 2x4 or a small piece of plywood, Lexan or other, we rarely change anything, and have found this to be satisfactory. We used to spend more time changing blades than cutting.. For more extensive work, we do make changes, of course. One of the saws I have at home has a reduction gearbox off of a conveyor system, with sprocket drive to the bandsaw for fine speed tuning and best motor placement. I switched out the 3 phase NEMA C face motor with a single phase motor I had laying around by just extending the through studs from the motor into the motor mounting holes in the gearbox, and double-nutted the studs to the gearbox, since my motor was a base mount type, and not a C face. C face motors just stab into the gearbox and bolt up, anyway. The motor and gearbox was mounted so the motor hangs vertically to reduce mounting stresses. If you don't feel the need to change speeds, this is a very economical way to go. These gearboxes are all over most industrial salvage yards and very economical, because the average guy sees the 3 phase motor and walks away. RJ "Roy" wrote in message ... On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 23:14:35 -0500, Artemia Salina wrote: ===As you know, the import bandsaws use a worm and wheel for speed ===reduction. Is fabricating something like that out of the question? ===Actually, I guess it would be difficult to switch it in and out of ===the drive train to move between metal and wood cutting speeds. === ===Did you abandon the DC motor because you got sidetracked with the ===VFD idea? The DC motor sounds like the most viable set up to me. ===Have you done any tests with it to see if it loses torque at low ===RPMs? The DC motor I have is rated on the data plate at 5100 rpm, and to bring that down to a useable rpm with a gear reducer and jack shaft is really not a feasible idea once I started to think about it. I would have to get that motor down around 1400 to 1700 rpm for most gear reducers, so I am already at a pretty low rate of speed and power with the DC motor I have. A 1745 or 1800 rpm ( or even lower rpm) motor puts me in that range already at a much higher torque , and reducing that down or through a gear reducer seems more feasible, espeically if coupled to a VFD. I really do not know, but I don;t want to do and undo something as I would rather do it right to start if its possible. I am figuring (actually guessing) I should be able to use a 2 hp VFD, with a gear reducer of 40 or 60:1 and a jackshaft to get the speeds and torque that would be satisfactory, but even my guessing is just an uneducated shot in the dark! I just do not have any faith in a used treadmill motor on something such as this. Making a worm gear setup is beyond my capabilites. I guess I would be happy to just use it for metal as thats my main concern, as I am not into doing any real woodworking per se, and I imagine it would cut wood to some degree with a wood cutting type blade. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. |
#7
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BANDSAW power, so what would be my best options for poweringthis machine HELP!
I picked up a couple of treadmills the other day at a surplus biz. I
thought they would be a varispeed DC unit. I found that they used a motor-controlled cone pulley arrangement with a 1+ hp (haven't torn it apart yet) AC motor. It has about a 12:1 speed range (3/4 - 10 mph). It should be great for a bandsaw app as the most torque will develope at the slowest speed. These are old hospital grade units that are getting replaced a lot these days. Just a thought if you have any surplus resources in your area. Respectfully, Ron Moore Roy wrote: I got a lot of mixed results in regards to gear reducer drives, VFD's and jack shafts in regards to my powering up my home brew bandsaw. I had thought I could do it with my 1.5 hp DC motor and a gear reducer and jackshaft, but then along came the VFD's etc........Not looking to spend a ton of money of course but not necessarily looking to cut corners either. I want it to be useable in the home shop for metal cutting mainly with wood and other materials secondary. Anyone have any offerings as to how or what would be the best yet most economical way to power this bandsaw? Specs....3 wheels (12" approx diam 37.75" circumferance) Preferable speeds for metal cutting and hopefully speeds for wood cutting as well. I found a neat crank type gear reducer however it may be a bit to light for this job. Its at the below link on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=26 227 I am at the point I need to decide how I am going to power this thing, so any info would be appreciated. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. |
#8
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BANDSAW power, so what would be my best options for powering this machine HELP!
Do you have a river near your shop that you could use a water wheel?
"Roy" wrote in message ... I got a lot of mixed results in regards to gear reducer drives, VFD's and jack shafts in regards to my powering up my home brew bandsaw. I had thought I could do it with my 1.5 hp DC motor and a gear reducer and jackshaft, but then along came the VFD's etc........Not looking to spend a ton of money of course but not necessarily looking to cut corners either. I want it to be useable in the home shop for metal cutting mainly with wood and other materials secondary. Anyone have any offerings as to how or what would be the best yet most economical way to power this bandsaw? Specs....3 wheels (12" approx diam 37.75" circumferance) Preferable speeds for metal cutting and hopefully speeds for wood cutting as well. I found a neat crank type gear reducer however it may be a bit to light for this job. Its at the below link on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=26 227 I am at the point I need to decide how I am going to power this thing, so any info would be appreciated. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. |
#9
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BANDSAW power, so what would be my best options for powering this machine HELP!
Roy wrote:
I really do not know, but I don;t want to do and undo something as I Have you given full consideration to the idea of building two saws? The requirements for wood and metal are so different that it seems trying to make a _good_ dual purpose saw is fraught with more difficulty than it is worth - blade change, gullet sizes, mixing sawdust with metal chips, .... I was given an old meat cutting bandsaw for which I built a table and blade guides, put on a 1hp 240V single phase motor and wound up with an excellent wood cutting bandsaw. I also bought one of the so-called "$200" bandsaws for metal on which I have a 14tpi bi-metal blade. Having used this setup for a couple of years, I wouldn't even consider trying to do both jobs with one saw. You can see "Big Red" at http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2000_retired_files/BANDSAW.TXT Ted |
#10
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BANDSAW power, so what would be my best options for powering this machine HELP!
You mentioned having a 2 HP 120/240VAC gearhead motor that's reduced by
23.1, so that should give you about 75 RPM final output (for a motor speed of about 1725 rpm), I think. If that gearbox is rated for an input of 2 HP, it's not going to wear out anytime soon from powering your bandsaw. For 12" wheels, (37.68" circumference) you'd get about 235 FPM blade speed at a 1:1 ratio. Some reasonable pulley sizes should get you to your ideal lower speed for metal. Getting up to the speed range mentioned for wood will be a little more difficult. Fractional HP motors are used to drive 10" bandsaw wheels through worm reduction, so 2 HP should provide you with plenty of power. WB ................... "Roy" wrote in message ... The DC motor I have is rated on the data plate at 5100 rpm, and to bring that down to a useable rpm with a gear reducer and jack shaft is really not a feasible idea once I started to think about it. I would have to get that motor down around 1400 to 1700 rpm for most gear reducers, so I am already at a pretty low rate of speed and power with the DC motor I have. A 1745 or 1800 rpm ( or even lower rpm) motor puts me in that range already at a much higher torque , and reducing that down or through a gear reducer seems more feasible, espeically if coupled to a VFD. I really do not know, but I don;t want to do and undo something as I would rather do it right to start if its possible. I am figuring (actually guessing) I should be able to use a 2 hp VFD, with a gear reducer of 40 or 60:1 and a jackshaft to get the speeds and torque that would be satisfactory, but even my guessing is just an uneducated shot in the dark! I just do not have any faith in a used treadmill motor on something such as this. Making a worm gear setup is beyond my capabilites. I guess I would be happy to just use it for metal as thats my main concern, as I am not into doing any real woodworking per se, and I imagine it would cut wood to some degree with a wood cutting type blade. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. |
#11
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BANDSAW power, so what would be my best options for powering this machine HELP!
On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 04:52:49 -0500, "Wild Bill"
wrote: ===You mentioned having a 2 HP 120/240VAC gearhead motor that's reduced by ===23.1, so that should give you about 75 RPM final output (for a motor speed ===of about 1725 rpm), I think. ===If that gearbox is rated for an input of 2 HP, it's not going to wear out ===anytime soon from powering your bandsaw. === ===For 12" wheels, (37.68" circumference) you'd get about 235 FPM blade speed ===at a 1:1 ratio. Some reasonable pulley sizes should get you to your ideal ===lower speed for metal. Getting up to the speed range mentioned for wood will ===be a little more difficult. === ===Fractional HP motors are used to drive 10" bandsaw wheels through worm ===reduction, so 2 HP should provide you with plenty of power. === ===WB snip I drug out that gear head motor and the output is a nice 46 rpm, however, after about 10 minutes of running time it gets hot enough to fry an egg on it. I would have thought its continuous duty, considering what it was removoved from, but evidently its not rated as such. I had high hopes for that motor. I think a fractional horsepower on this downsized bandsaw would be grossly underpowered. I now decided to make it strictly for cutting metals and what ever it may happen to cut at those speeds. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. |
#12
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BANDSAW power, so what would be my best options for powering this machine HELP!
I went thru this agony for years. Finally bought an old 12 inch Craftsman
and power it with a 1/2 hp gear head motor that spins at 157 RPM. I use RC-35 roller chain from the sprocket on GH motor to the bandsaw. Sprockets are sized to obtain 200 fpm blade speed. Works fine. I use another BS for wood. Jim "Roy" wrote in message ... I got a lot of mixed results in regards to gear reducer drives, VFD's and jack shafts in regards to my powering up my home brew bandsaw. I had thought I could do it with my 1.5 hp DC motor and a gear reducer and jackshaft, but then along came the VFD's etc........Not looking to spend a ton of money of course but not necessarily looking to cut corners either. I want it to be useable in the home shop for metal cutting mainly with wood and other materials secondary. Anyone have any offerings as to how or what would be the best yet most economical way to power this bandsaw? Specs....3 wheels (12" approx diam 37.75" circumferance) Preferable speeds for metal cutting and hopefully speeds for wood cutting as well. I found a neat crank type gear reducer however it may be a bit to light for this job. Its at the below link on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=26 227 I am at the point I need to decide how I am going to power this thing, so any info would be appreciated. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. |
#13
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BANDSAW power, so what would be my best options for powering this machine HELP!
If there's a data tag on the 2 HP gearhead motor, it might be worthwhile to
check the motor's RPM, and/or that the leads are wired correctly for the voltage you applied to it. I would think it should run at about 1725 RPM (and about 75 RPM output) if it's a split phase capacitor start motor. There are many archived posts concerning problems and solutions for these types of motors.. faults with the centrifugal switch, bearings or capacitor in most cases. A SPCS gearhead motor would most likely be the best power for your bandsaw since they're dependable and relatively maintenance-free. You'd probably want 1 HP or larger. If your gearhead motor is some sort of unusual capacitor run (3-wire) 800 RPM fan-duty-type motor, it's probably unlikely that it's a 2 HP motor. This probably wouldn't be suitable for powering most metalworking machines. They're more suitable for light loads. WB ............... "Roy" wrote in message ... I drug out that gear head motor and the output is a nice 46 rpm, however, after about 10 minutes of running time it gets hot enough to fry an egg on it. I would have thought its continuous duty, considering what it was removoved from, but evidently its not rated as such. I had high hopes for that motor. I think a fractional horsepower on this downsized bandsaw would be grossly underpowered. I now decided to make it strictly for cutting metals and what ever it may happen to cut at those speeds. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. |
#14
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BANDSAW power, so what would be my best options for powering this machine HELP!
Shhh Ron.....don't let these guys know the big secret about
treadmills. ;) A story... For me, this last summer was "The Summer of the Treadmill". I got several different treadmills for nothing...right place at the right time. One was like the ones you mention. It had a complete Reeves mechanism with a very healthy AC 220V motor...a bear to tear down because it was built like a tank...first time I have used a sled hammer as the main disassembly tool. When you take yours apart, make sure you keep the entire Reeves/motor assembly together in one piece. My assembly would be a drop-in replacement for a bandsaw application that is being discussed. The other treadmill I got had a LARGE DC motor assembly with speed controller. When I mention LARGE DC motor, I am describing a real 3.5 HP DC Baldor motor that weighs many pounds. I was told by the store that threw the treadmill out that the motor was worth thousands of dollars Finally I found another treadmill in the junkyard later this summer (remember I had been looking for surplus treadmills for years with no success until now). When I tore this one apart, lo and behold, there was the "infamous treadmill motor" that the surplus places sell. A simple test that I now use to determine whether there is "HSM gold" in that thar treadmill is to try to pick up the powered end of the treadmill. If you can, the treadmill has the "infamous treadmill motor" of questionable horsepower...useful for some applications. If you can't pick the treadmill up, you likely have yourself a treadmill worth taking apart since the two I mentioned (the Reeves and the BIG DC) were ones I couldn't budge without busting a disc or two. The moral of this story....if you can find a high end treadmill, GRAB IT. It will have either a Reeves mechanism with a BIG AC motor or a BIG DC motor. Either of these are perfect drop-in subassemblies for powering bandsaws, mills or lathes with little or no modification to the machine in question. Oh, and my New Year's resolution is to find all the treadmills I can't lift for the coming year. ;) Ron Moore wrote in message ... I picked up a couple of treadmills the other day at a surplus biz. I thought they would be a varispeed DC unit. I found that they used a motor-controlled cone pulley arrangement with a 1+ hp (haven't torn it apart yet) AC motor. It has about a 12:1 speed range (3/4 - 10 mph). It should be great for a bandsaw app as the most torque will develope at the slowest speed. These are old hospital grade units that are getting replaced a lot these days. Just a thought if you have any surplus resources in your area. Respectfully, Ron Moore Roy wrote: I got a lot of mixed results in regards to gear reducer drives, VFD's and jack shafts in regards to my powering up my home brew bandsaw. I had thought I could do it with my 1.5 hp DC motor and a gear reducer and jackshaft, but then along came the VFD's etc........Not looking to spend a ton of money of course but not necessarily looking to cut corners either. I want it to be useable in the home shop for metal cutting mainly with wood and other materials secondary. Anyone have any offerings as to how or what would be the best yet most economical way to power this bandsaw? Specs....3 wheels (12" approx diam 37.75" circumferance) Preferable speeds for metal cutting and hopefully speeds for wood cutting as well. I found a neat crank type gear reducer however it may be a bit to light for this job. Its at the below link on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=26 227 I am at the point I need to decide how I am going to power this thing, so any info would be appreciated. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. |
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