I would like to start practicing with an arc welder on scrap metal so I
can move on to welding up metal buildings. The problem is, there is no
electric where I need to practice my welding. I do have a 5500 watt
generator with 9500 surge. I'd like to buy a buzz box to start arc
welding, but I don't want to destroy my generator either for drawing
too much current. Do you guys have any estimates as to how many amps I
can go up to on a buzz box and stay under 5500 watts from the
generator? I'm looking at the 225 amp AC buzz box.

Thanks,

Sam

On 1 Jan 2006 10:42:31 -0800, "Rancher Sam"
wrote:

I would like to start practicing with an arc welder on scrap metal so I
can move on to welding up metal buildings.

If you need to practice with an arc welder before welding structural
steel for a building, you might want to take some welding classes
first. The life you save might be your own.

The problem is, there is no
electric where I need to practice my welding.

Buildings that are large enough to need welding don't always have
electric service on site either. You might want to look into an
engine driven welder, perhaps rent one on a per job basis.

I do have a 5500 watt
generator with 9500 surge. I'd like to buy a buzz box to start arc
welding, but I don't want to destroy my generator either for drawing
too much current. Do you guys have any estimates as to how many amps I
can go up to on a buzz box and stay under 5500 watts from the
generator? I'm looking at the 225 amp AC buzz box.


Your generator does not have enough surge capacity for a 225 amp AC
buzz box. My 225 amp 240 volt 1ph buzz box trips a 50 amp circuit
breaker about once every tenth time I click the switch to turn it on.
It takes an enourmous surge current to saturate a large transformer --
my guess around 100 amps. The circuit breaker doesn't trip every time
because there is a delayed trip mechanism to account for surge
currents, but it still does trip occasionally. The manufacturer
recommends a 50 Amp circuit breaker, so that is what I have.
Installing a larger circuit breaker would void my insurance policies.

The maximum surge current on your generator is 9500/240 = 40 Amps.
which is less than the 50 Amp circuit breaker I have.

On 1 Jan 2006 10:42:31 -0800, "Rancher Sam"
wrote:

I would like to start practicing with an arc welder on scrap metal so I
can move on to welding up metal buildings. The problem is, there is no
electric where I need to practice my welding. I do have a 5500 watt
generator with 9500 surge. I'd like to buy a buzz box to start arc
welding, but I don't want to destroy my generator either for drawing
too much current. Do you guys have any estimates as to how many amps I
can go up to on a buzz box and stay under 5500 watts from the
generator? I'm looking at the 225 amp AC buzz box.

Thanks,

Sam

Your genny is not nearly enough to run your buzzbox.

If you're talking about welding sheetmetal up to 5/16" steel, I'd
recommend that you consider a wirefeed welder. You can run fluxcore
outdoors. Wirefeed draws a lot less mains current for given welding
current than stick because it has considerably lower open circuit
voltage (and therefore higher transformation ratio) than a buzzbox.
For example, a Hobart Handler 180 draws 20 amps of 220, which your
genny should be able to deliver without any problem.

Thanks for the replies. I was wondering if I can run a 225 amp buzz
box at less than its full amperage. The lincoln 225 ac that's in most
home improvement stores has a selector knob that allows you to go from
say 60 amps all the way to 225. If I run the buzz box at 150, for
example, can my 5500 generator handle that?

I have a lincoln, weldpak 3200, mig welder that's for up metal up to
5/16s. Can I make structural welds with multiple passes using this?

Thanks for all the info.

Sam

The Lincoln buzz box runs at about 25 volts while welding. If your
generator can really put out 5500 continuous, that works out to 220
amps. Allowing for some losses, I'd guess that you could run the 175 amp
tap with no problem. This would be enough to run 5/32" 6011 rod

Your 9500 watt surge works out to a 40 amp surge capability, should be
enough if you stick the rod.

I run an older AIRCO 225 amp welder on a 4000 watt el cheapo generator.
I keep the weld current down to 120 amps, enough for 1/8" rod. Tends to
be a bit finiky but works ok.

Rancher Sam wrote:
I would like to start practicing with an arc welder on scrap metal so I
can move on to welding up metal buildings. The problem is, there is no
electric where I need to practice my welding. I do have a 5500 watt
generator with 9500 surge. I'd like to buy a buzz box to start arc
welding, but I don't want to destroy my generator either for drawing
too much current. Do you guys have any estimates as to how many amps I
can go up to on a buzz box and stay under 5500 watts from the
generator? I'm looking at the 225 amp AC buzz box.

Thanks,

Sam

On 1 Jan 2006 14:21:36 -0800, "Rancher Sam"
wrote:

Thanks for the replies. I was wondering if I can run a 225 amp buzz
box at less than its full amperage. The lincoln 225 ac that's in most
home improvement stores has a selector knob that allows you to go from
say 60 amps all the way to 225. If I run the buzz box at 150, for
example, can my 5500 generator handle that?

I have a lincoln, weldpak 3200, mig welder that's for up metal up to
5/16s. Can I make structural welds with multiple passes using this?

I wouldn't. 5/16" is really pushing the 110-volt boxes. I think
1/4" is pushing them, though it can be done -- but you'd spend 90% of
your time waiting for it to cool down after every few inches of
weld. (Been there, done that) You'd be OK with a 220-volt
180-amp wirefeed machine if you're a good weldor. As long as you
have a puddle in (not just on) the parent metal, you're welding.

Buzzboxes draw pretty heavy current even at the lower amperage
settings. It's low power factor inductive current so it doesn't spin
the meter, but it can still overload a genny.

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 23:34:39 GMT, RoyJ wrote:

The Lincoln buzz box runs at about 25 volts while welding. If your
generator can really put out 5500 continuous, that works out to 220
amps.

No. Look at the V-A curves for buzzboxes. The OCV is about 80
volts, indicating a transformation ratio of about 0.364 : 1.
Inductive impedance in the welder reduces the arc voltage to about 25
volts, but the current ratio will still be about 0.364 : 1, which
means about 45 amps of line current at 125 amps of arc current.
The genny is rated in watts to resistive loads like lighting, but it's
limitation is really current.

Transformation ratio changes some at the higher current taps. OCV is
lower on them. So the welder might run on a 50 amp breaker at higher
arc currents, but the line current doesn't diminish much at lower arc
currents.

Further, a genny has a lot less patience than a circuit breaker. You
can run a 50 amp breaker at 25% overload for quite a while before it
trips, but that isn't true of a genny.

Click on this (IT WILL TAKE A MINUTE TO LOAD)

http://www.motherearthrecycling.net/.../demo/demo.htm

to here the load a 1/8 7018 rod puts on a 12 HP Briggs running an
alternator welder. 12 HP is about the cut off point. Now this is NOT a buzz
box on a gen. Its a belt driven car alternator working its ass off. The
sample in the photo are poor, I have done some real nice welds with this set
up.
"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 23:34:39 GMT, RoyJ wrote:

The Lincoln buzz box runs at about 25 volts while welding. If your
generator can really put out 5500 continuous, that works out to 220
amps.

No. Look at the V-A curves for buzzboxes. The OCV is about 80
volts, indicating a transformation ratio of about 0.364 : 1.
Inductive impedance in the welder reduces the arc voltage to about 25
volts, but the current ratio will still be about 0.364 : 1, which
means about 45 amps of line current at 125 amps of arc current.
The genny is rated in watts to resistive loads like lighting, but it's
limitation is really current.

Transformation ratio changes some at the higher current taps. OCV is
lower on them. So the welder might run on a 50 amp breaker at higher
arc currents, but the line current doesn't diminish much at lower arc
currents.

Further, a genny has a lot less patience than a circuit breaker. You
can run a 50 amp breaker at 25% overload for quite a while before it
trips, but that isn't true of a genny.

On 1 Jan 2006 14:21:36 -0800, "Rancher Sam"
wrote:

Thanks for the replies. I was wondering if I can run a 225 amp buzz
box at less than its full amperage. The lincoln 225 ac that's in most
home improvement stores has a selector knob that allows you to go from
say 60 amps all the way to 225. If I run the buzz box at 150, for
example, can my 5500 generator handle that?

I have a lincoln, weldpak 3200, mig welder that's for up metal up to
5/16s. Can I make structural welds with multiple passes using this?

Thanks for all the info.

Sam

Frankly..Id go with the Lincoln, using a wire called Outer Shield 71m.
Its a flux core wire that you use with gas, and is designed for
outdoor structural welding, with CO2 as the gas. Its really good ****
for this type of work, and I believe...maybe..that your MIG would run
on the genny when using this. Is your welder capable of running .035
or .045 wire? If so..then load it up with Dual Shield and make some
test welds.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On 1 Jan 2006 14:21:36 -0800, "Rancher Sam"
wrote:

Thanks for the replies. I was wondering if I can run a 225 amp buzz
box at less than its full amperage. The lincoln 225 ac that's in most
home improvement stores has a selector knob that allows you to go from
say 60 amps all the way to 225. If I run the buzz box at 150, for
example, can my 5500 generator handle that?

No. The problem is not running it after you switch it on, the problem
is the amount of surge current it draws WHEN YOU SWITCH IT ON.

I've never tripped the 50 amp circuit breaker while welding, even with
the machine cranked up all the way to 225 Amps., after the machine is
switched on. The circuit breaker trips, about once in ten times, at
the moment I switch on the machine, using the ON/OFF switch on the
machine. First, you hear a click from the switch on the machine, and
a split second later, you hear a click from the 50 Amp circuit breaker
at the service pannel, if you listen closely; otherwise, the two
clicks are so close together, they sound like one.


I have a lincoln, weldpak 3200, mig welder that's for up metal up to
5/16s. Can I make structural welds with multiple passes using this?


Well, in theory you can. In practice, I use MIG for sheet metal and
stick for structural steel. When it comes to structural steel where
my own safety is involved, I tend to be an old fashioned guy who
prefers stick so, I'll let others speak to this.

If you already know which end is up on a welder, I don't see why you
don't rent or lease an engine driven welder for the project. I would.

Thanks for all the info.

Sam

I have a small 110 volt MIG that I use for thin stuff. Everything else
is done with a Miller engine drive that has a 8KW generator capability
as well. It will run CV, but stick electrodes are all that I have ever
used. I use it for a generator more than for a welder.
How about trading up to an engine drive?
I wanted to avoid the expense of adding a welder circuit.

"Speechless" wrote in message
...
On 1 Jan 2006 14:21:36 -0800, "Rancher Sam"
wrote:

Thanks for the replies. I was wondering if I can run a 225 amp buzz
box at less than its full amperage. The lincoln 225 ac that's in most
home improvement stores has a selector knob that allows you to go from
say 60 amps all the way to 225. If I run the buzz box at 150, for
example, can my 5500 generator handle that?

No. The problem is not running it after you switch it on, the problem
is the amount of surge current it draws WHEN YOU SWITCH IT ON.

I've never tripped the 50 amp circuit breaker while welding, even with
the machine cranked up all the way to 225 Amps., after the machine is
switched on. The circuit breaker trips, about once in ten times, at
the moment I switch on the machine, using the ON/OFF switch on the
machine. First, you hear a click from the switch on the machine, and
a split second later, you hear a click from the 50 Amp circuit breaker
at the service pannel, if you listen closely; otherwise, the two
clicks are so close together, they sound like one.


I have a similar buzz box that I run in the garage from a 30A breaker (as I
only have #10 wire to the garage). I can blow the breaker at full amperage
but usually run at 110 or so and have no problems, including switch on. I
don't know if a 5500 gen would run the welder at 150 as the gen would only
be producing about 24A max but it's worth a try IMO and you could also work
the welder at a lower amperage if possible.

Laurie Forbes