OK, let's say you're given the task of making a 5/8" hole in a truck
frame (heat treated alloy steel) rail. You have at your disposal a
center punch, an air drill and what ever the hell you can chuck in the
end of it. 1/2" chuck. As a metalworker, how would you go about it?
Any torching is a big no-no.
I center punched, drilled a little hole, enlarged it to a 3/8 hole,
then used a "bridge reamer" to make it a 5/8" hole. This was a
harrowing experience because it was a mother****er to put that initial
hole in there, (had to apply a lot of pressure from a really
uncomfortable stance) and that reamer (on loan and rather pricey) had a
nasty habit of grabbing if I didn't hold it exactly straight through the
entire cut. I made it without hurting the reamer or breaking my wrists,
but I'd like to know if there is a better way.
Also, one hole was stubborn. I was going to enlarge it one more time
to a half inch, but about half way though the hole I suddenly stopped
making progress. For the life of me I could not make the damn drill cut
no matter how much pressure I applied. Just in case there was something
wrong with the bit that I couldn't see visually, I tried another, but it
wouldn't cut either. The original bit in another hole cut just fine.
HSS drill bit. The reamer (also HSS) handled that stubborn hole just
fine. So, what the hell? Did it harden on me? I wasn't building up
much heat at all. I could pull the drill out of the hole and grab the
bit and while hot, it didn't burn me.
BTW, my "cutting fluid" was 50wt transmission oil because that's all
I had, and was recommended by the guy who loaned me the reamer. It
worked, but probably isn't optimal. For next time, what (obtainable)
fluid is suggested?

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net

My guess is that you work hardened the surface. The different cutting angle
on the reamer got you through.
For a 5/8th hole I would have drilled a 3/16 for your pilot and gone
directly to a 5/8th Prentice bit ( stepped shank ). When you go in
gradual steps you just dull the drill bit because the cutting edge is almost
instantly overloaded cutting on the rim of the bit.
The procedure I have done is that the 5/8th hole is drilled with an
electric drill having a half inch chuck and lots of torque. One person
holds the drill and the other has a pipe extension held to take the torque
reaction. Without a helper you face the possibility of a broken arm/wrist.
The ideal way is with a magnetic base drill.
I have become partial to something called Anchorlube for slow drilling
and tapping.
Randy


"B.B." u wrote in message
news OK, let's say you're given the task of making a 5/8" hole in a truck
frame (heat treated alloy steel) rail. You have at your disposal a
center punch, an air drill and what ever the hell you can chuck in the
end of it. 1/2" chuck. As a metalworker, how would you go about it?
Any torching is a big no-no.
I center punched, drilled a little hole, enlarged it to a 3/8 hole,
then used a "bridge reamer" to make it a 5/8" hole. This was a
harrowing experience because it was a mother****er to put that initial
hole in there, (had to apply a lot of pressure from a really
uncomfortable stance) and that reamer (on loan and rather pricey) had a
nasty habit of grabbing if I didn't hold it exactly straight through the
entire cut. I made it without hurting the reamer or breaking my wrists,
but I'd like to know if there is a better way.
Also, one hole was stubborn. I was going to enlarge it one more time
to a half inch, but about half way though the hole I suddenly stopped
making progress. For the life of me I could not make the damn drill cut
no matter how much pressure I applied. Just in case there was something
wrong with the bit that I couldn't see visually, I tried another, but it
wouldn't cut either. The original bit in another hole cut just fine.
HSS drill bit. The reamer (also HSS) handled that stubborn hole just
fine. So, what the hell? Did it harden on me? I wasn't building up
much heat at all. I could pull the drill out of the hole and grab the
bit and while hot, it didn't burn me.
BTW, my "cutting fluid" was 50wt transmission oil because that's all
I had, and was recommended by the guy who loaned me the reamer. It
worked, but probably isn't optimal. For next time, what (obtainable)
fluid is suggested?

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net

This web page has some ideas that might help.


http://www.metalsmith.org/pub/mtlsmith/V20.4/Dholes.htm

wrote in message
oups.com...
This web page has some ideas that might help.


http://www.metalsmith.org/pub/mtlsmith/V20.4/Dholes.htm


I feel like a broken record, but.... All Metabo corded drills have safety
clutches. All this silliness about broken wrists and smashed body parts is
completely unnecessary if you have the right tool. Mine has electronic
variable speed which means it has a *lot* of torque at any RPM (model
BE1020). I can drill 1/2" holes in cast iron with one hand on the machine
without worrying that I'm going to break something. That's not to say it
won't give you a good tug if the bit jams, but that's a far cry from what
other machines are easily capable of.

Anyway, I'd go for a hole saw if I had to do this by hand. Reducing the RPMs
is important once the 1/4" pilot is through. It's difficult to sharpen hole
saws and if you only have a couple of holes, going more slowly than
recommended is only saving aggravation.

HTH.

Regards,

Robin

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 00:14:10 -0600, "B.B."
u wrote:

OK, let's say you're given the task of making a 5/8" hole in a truck
frame (heat treated alloy steel) rail. You have at your disposal a
center punch, an air drill and what ever the hell you can chuck in the
end of it. 1/2" chuck. As a metalworker, how would you go about it?
Any torching is a big no-no.
I center punched, drilled a little hole, enlarged it to a 3/8 hole,
then used a "bridge reamer" to make it a 5/8" hole. This was a
harrowing experience because it was a mother****er to put that initial
hole in there, (had to apply a lot of pressure from a really
uncomfortable stance) and that reamer (on loan and rather pricey) had a
nasty habit of grabbing if I didn't hold it exactly straight through the
entire cut. I made it without hurting the reamer or breaking my wrists,
but I'd like to know if there is a better way.
Also, one hole was stubborn. I was going to enlarge it one more time
to a half inch, but about half way though the hole I suddenly stopped
making progress. For the life of me I could not make the damn drill cut
no matter how much pressure I applied. Just in case there was something
wrong with the bit that I couldn't see visually, I tried another, but it
wouldn't cut either. The original bit in another hole cut just fine.
HSS drill bit. The reamer (also HSS) handled that stubborn hole just
fine. So, what the hell? Did it harden on me? I wasn't building up
much heat at all. I could pull the drill out of the hole and grab the
bit and while hot, it didn't burn me.
BTW, my "cutting fluid" was 50wt transmission oil because that's all
I had, and was recommended by the guy who loaned me the reamer. It
worked, but probably isn't optimal. For next time, what (obtainable)
fluid is suggested?

Low speed with LOTS of axial force. Drill a pilot hole just large
enough to pass the web of the larger drill, then go directly to size.
A magnetic base drill or a Cole drill are very useful here. If
you're not cutting a curly chip, you are either in trouble or about to
be.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 00:14:10 -0600, "B.B."
u wrote:

OK, let's say you're given the task of making a 5/8" hole in a truck
frame (heat treated alloy steel) rail. You have at your disposal a
center punch, an air drill and what ever the hell you can chuck in the
end of it. 1/2" chuck. As a metalworker, how would you go about it?
Any torching is a big no-no.
I center punched, drilled a little hole, enlarged it to a 3/8 hole,
then used a "bridge reamer" to make it a 5/8" hole. This was a
harrowing experience because it was a mother****er to put that initial
hole in there, (had to apply a lot of pressure from a really
uncomfortable stance) and that reamer (on loan and rather pricey) had a
nasty habit of grabbing if I didn't hold it exactly straight through the
entire cut. I made it without hurting the reamer or breaking my wrists,
but I'd like to know if there is a better way.
Also, one hole was stubborn. I was going to enlarge it one more time
to a half inch, but about half way though the hole I suddenly stopped
making progress. For the life of me I could not make the damn drill cut
no matter how much pressure I applied. Just in case there was something
wrong with the bit that I couldn't see visually, I tried another, but it
wouldn't cut either. The original bit in another hole cut just fine.
HSS drill bit. The reamer (also HSS) handled that stubborn hole just
fine. So, what the hell? Did it harden on me? I wasn't building up
much heat at all. I could pull the drill out of the hole and grab the
bit and while hot, it didn't burn me.
BTW, my "cutting fluid" was 50wt transmission oil because that's all
I had, and was recommended by the guy who loaned me the reamer. It
worked, but probably isn't optimal. For next time, what (obtainable)
fluid is suggested?

I'm afraid you won't like my answer.

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/...xtension07.jpg

I drilled 225+ holes in that frame with that setup. I've also got a
mag drill now but I feel that the air drill setup is lighter and
easier to use. Unfortunately I can't tell you where to find another
drill like that. It's the only one I've ever seen.

Now for something that might actually help.

Drilling in one shot is always better than step drilling. The catch
is that you have to be able to put enough pressure to maintain cut
(impossible to do by hand). The next best is to drill a small hole
about the same size as the web of the big drill bit first and then go
straight to the big drill bit. However larger holes it can still be
hard to get enough pressure by hand.

The real key is to use some method of getting the pressure needed.
My setup is easy since the drill already has a jack screw built in.
You might look into building a dead man with the jack screw in it and
use a drill where you can put a little center in the back of it
(inline with the drill bit) and use that to push.

I've heard about but not used other methods (partly because some of
them are more than a little scary sounding to me). These include
wrapping a chain around the frame and looping it over the shoulder pad
on the drill (this calls for one of the old style "killer" electric
drills). Twisting the drill will cause the chain to tighten pushing
the bit in. Another method I've heard of is to use two people. One
holds the drill and another has a lever (pipe or wood) where one end
is chained to the frame, the drill is somewhere near the chain and the
second person pushes on the end of the lever. Neither method gives
enough control in my opinion.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

I've used the "two people with a pipe and chain" method. Works OK, hate
to duplicate it for 225 holes! Run the pipe through the 'D' handle on a
1/2" 200rpm drill. weld a suitable chain hook on the end of a 4' pipe,
hook the chain around the frame, position the drill about a foot from
the chain. Operator 1 lines things up, keeps his hand on the switch,
squirts in the lube, handles the break through problem. Operator 2
leans into the pipe, has a 3 to 1 force advantage to keep the chips
coming. The secret is to keep the cutting action going at all times, if
it skates, you are done.

Wayne Cook wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 00:14:10 -0600, "B.B."
u wrote:


OK, let's say you're given the task of making a 5/8" hole in a truck
frame (heat treated alloy steel) rail. You have at your disposal a
center punch, an air drill and what ever the hell you can chuck in the
end of it. 1/2" chuck. As a metalworker, how would you go about it?
Any torching is a big no-no.
I center punched, drilled a little hole, enlarged it to a 3/8 hole,
then used a "bridge reamer" to make it a 5/8" hole. This was a
harrowing experience because it was a mother****er to put that initial
hole in there, (had to apply a lot of pressure from a really
uncomfortable stance) and that reamer (on loan and rather pricey) had a
nasty habit of grabbing if I didn't hold it exactly straight through the
entire cut. I made it without hurting the reamer or breaking my wrists,
but I'd like to know if there is a better way.
Also, one hole was stubborn. I was going to enlarge it one more time
to a half inch, but about half way though the hole I suddenly stopped
making progress. For the life of me I could not make the damn drill cut
no matter how much pressure I applied. Just in case there was something
wrong with the bit that I couldn't see visually, I tried another, but it
wouldn't cut either. The original bit in another hole cut just fine.
HSS drill bit. The reamer (also HSS) handled that stubborn hole just
fine. So, what the hell? Did it harden on me? I wasn't building up
much heat at all. I could pull the drill out of the hole and grab the
bit and while hot, it didn't burn me.
BTW, my "cutting fluid" was 50wt transmission oil because that's all
I had, and was recommended by the guy who loaned me the reamer. It
worked, but probably isn't optimal. For next time, what (obtainable)
fluid is suggested?


I'm afraid you won't like my answer.

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/...xtension07.jpg

I drilled 225+ holes in that frame with that setup. I've also got a
mag drill now but I feel that the air drill setup is lighter and
easier to use. Unfortunately I can't tell you where to find another
drill like that. It's the only one I've ever seen.

Now for something that might actually help.

Drilling in one shot is always better than step drilling. The catch
is that you have to be able to put enough pressure to maintain cut
(impossible to do by hand). The next best is to drill a small hole
about the same size as the web of the big drill bit first and then go
straight to the big drill bit. However larger holes it can still be
hard to get enough pressure by hand.

The real key is to use some method of getting the pressure needed.
My setup is easy since the drill already has a jack screw built in.
You might look into building a dead man with the jack screw in it and
use a drill where you can put a little center in the back of it
(inline with the drill bit) and use that to push.

I've heard about but not used other methods (partly because some of
them are more than a little scary sounding to me). These include
wrapping a chain around the frame and looping it over the shoulder pad
on the drill (this calls for one of the old style "killer" electric
drills). Twisting the drill will cause the chain to tighten pushing
the bit in. Another method I've heard of is to use two people. One
holds the drill and another has a lever (pipe or wood) where one end
is chained to the frame, the drill is somewhere near the chain and the
second person pushes on the end of the lever. Neither method gives
enough control in my opinion.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

According to B.B. u:
OK, let's say you're given the task of making a 5/8" hole in a truck
frame (heat treated alloy steel) rail. You have at your disposal a
center punch, an air drill and what ever the hell you can chuck in the
end of it. 1/2" chuck. As a metalworker, how would you go about it?
Any torching is a big no-no.
I center punched, drilled a little hole, enlarged it to a 3/8 hole,
then used a "bridge reamer" to make it a 5/8" hole. This was a

Hmm ... I would check to see whether a step drill (UniBit is one
maker -- the first, I think) would work. It starts out pretty small,
and increases in steps. It has a single flute to do the cutting, and
something around 3/4 of the circumference rides in the hole as a guide.

The trick is to have a step drill either with steps as long as
the thickness of your metal, or with the maximum diameter matching the
target size. Some step drills have fairly short steps, but a lot of
them -- good for something like holes in 16 ga steel or aluminum of
similar thickness. Others have longer steps -- over 1/8" (but not as
many steps). I suspect that the latter is what you would need.

One thing to consider is that you will probably want to reduce
the RPM as the drill moves up to larger steps, or you risk running too
fast and overheating the drill -- step drill or normal style.

harrowing experience because it was a mother****er to put that initial
hole in there, (had to apply a lot of pressure from a really
uncomfortable stance) and that reamer (on loan and rather pricey) had a
nasty habit of grabbing if I didn't hold it exactly straight through the
entire cut.

Any kind of tapered reamer is nasty that way -- either the
bridge reamers (which I have never used), or the T-handled reamers by
General (and probably others) which I have used many times to make holes
in electronics chassis.

I made it without hurting the reamer or breaking my wrists,
but I'd like to know if there is a better way.
Also, one hole was stubborn. I was going to enlarge it one more time
to a half inch, but about half way though the hole I suddenly stopped
making progress. For the life of me I could not make the damn drill cut
no matter how much pressure I applied.

What RPM were you running? I suspect that you may have
overheated the bit. And also, as you increase the diameter (assuming
constant sized steps) you need more force to keep it cutting properly.

Just in case there was something
wrong with the bit that I couldn't see visually, I tried another, but it
wouldn't cut either. The original bit in another hole cut just fine.

Work hardening of the workpiece, then.

HSS drill bit. The reamer (also HSS) handled that stubborn hole just
fine.

Different angle of cut (as was mentioned by another), and you
are running it at a much slower speed (manual power, instead of air or
electric drill).

So, what the hell? Did it harden on me?

I suspect so.

I wasn't building up
much heat at all.

Work hardening does not need much heat.

I could pull the drill out of the hole and grab the
bit and while hot, it didn't burn me.
BTW, my "cutting fluid" was 50wt transmission oil because that's all
I had, and was recommended by the guy who loaned me the reamer. It
worked, but probably isn't optimal. For next time, what (obtainable)
fluid is suggested?

Not sure for the bridge reamer, but I would probably use
Molly-Dee (Molybdenum Disulfide in oil) with the step drill.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

holes up to 1 inch can be don e by hand relatively fast using a two
drill method

rule one make your pilot hole slightly smaller than the web , really
stops the grabbing


rule two use a good Milwaukee 1/2 inch hole shooter hand drill @400 rpm


apply steady starlight pressure to the bit

i like to derake my bits till they just will make a chip but not start a
curl if that makes sense , a good bit of rpm helps


the drill i use has no side handle and i usually only hold it from
rotating lightly most of the pressure is going straight behind the bit


heres another trick

stand on the extension cord keeping it really short length to the tool ,
that way if it grabs it unplugs itself

i drill a lot of 5/8 3/4 and 1/2 holes in machine frames on site and i
can out-do the mag drill guys by 3 to 1

i have successfully run in 5/8 -11 taps by hand drill to , won lunch
that day

So far, everybody else has offered brute-force sollutions. I'll bet this is
faster and easier. Center punch the center, draw a circle 7/64" smaller
than the finished hole, prick marks on this circle 1/8" apart, use an air
drill and 1/8" stub bits and drill these holes, knock-out the slug, clean-up
with a tapered reamer, finish with a sized reamer.

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 03:14:56 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

So far, everybody else has offered brute-force sollutions. I'll bet this is
faster and easier. Center punch the center, draw a circle 7/64" smaller
than the finished hole, prick marks on this circle 1/8" apart, use an air
drill and 1/8" stub bits and drill these holes, knock-out the slug, clean-up
with a tapered reamer, finish with a sized reamer.

If you are really careful, a .243 winchester will make a nice
..308-315 hole in a frame. Might have to grind off a little crater wall
....

GUnner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

In article s.com,
(DoN. Nichols) wrote:

Hmm ... I would check to see whether a step drill (UniBit is one

Steps are nowhere near deep enough. The frame rails are at least 3/8
of an inch thick, and I got stuck with a doubled frame. I also haven't
seen a step bit that tops out at 5/8, but for what I suspect it costs I
could get my own reamer anyway.

One thing to consider is that you will probably want to reduce
the RPM as the drill moves up to larger steps, or you risk running too
fast and overheating the drill -- step drill or normal style.

Yeah, I took that into account. Started off at about 300ish RPM and
steadily went down as I got into larger sizes. Air drill, so I went
mostly by sound.

HSS drill bit. The reamer (also HSS) handled that stubborn hole just
fine.

Different angle of cut (as was mentioned by another), and you
are running it at a much slower speed (manual power, instead of air or
electric drill).

No, it was also chucked in the drill. But I did make sure to run it
much more slowly.

So, what the hell? Did it harden on me?

I suspect so.

I wasn't building up
much heat at all.

Work hardening does not need much heat.

Do you happen to know the physics involved in work hardening? I've
never understood how it's even possible. I figure if I know how the
process works I can avoid it next time.

I could pull the drill out of the hole and grab the
bit and while hot, it didn't burn me.
BTW, my "cutting fluid" was 50wt transmission oil because that's all
I had, and was recommended by the guy who loaned me the reamer. It
worked, but probably isn't optimal. For next time, what (obtainable)
fluid is suggested?

Not sure for the bridge reamer, but I would probably use
Molly-Dee (Molybdenum Disulfide in oil) with the step drill.

What's a product name I can search for? "Molly-dee" just got me some
stupid song's lyrics. Adding "oil" got me articles mentioning cutting
fluid, but nothing about where to get the stuff.
Next time I do this I'll try rigging up some sort of leverage so that
I can mash down on the drill more efficiently. If I can get some access
to machine tools I can build a setup based on the auxiliary handle my
drill already comes with. I'm thinking a clamp-on collar with an air
cylinder and three chain hooks. Chain it to the frame, use a regulator
to set the pressure I want, and pull the trigger. But I'll probably get
get a pipe and wedge it against the handle. (:

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net

"Gunner Asch" wrote in
message
...
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 03:14:56 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

So far, everybody else has offered brute-force
sollutions. I'll bet this is
faster and easier. Center punch the center,
draw a circle 7/64" smaller
than the finished hole, prick marks on this
circle 1/8" apart, use an air
drill and 1/8" stub bits and drill these holes,
knock-out the slug, clean-up
with a tapered reamer, finish with a sized
reamer.

If you are really careful, a .243 winchester
will make a nice
.308-315 hole in a frame. Might have to grind
off a little crater wall

Quick too!

"WILLIAM HENRY" wrote in message
. ..

i drill a lot of 5/8 3/4 and 1/2 holes in machine frames on site and i
can out-do the mag drill guys by 3 to 1

i have successfully run in 5/8 -11 taps by hand drill to , won lunch
that day


A friend of mine was working in his dad's body shop for the summer and
learned to weld. Because he was family he had keys so for a couple of weeks
he would sneak in at night and practice. They had all kinds of welders (I
don't know welding) and he told me he got to where he could weld two razor
blades together with whatever was the best machine for that sort of thing.

Then he led the old guys into betting he couldn't do it and won some small
amount of cash, but none of them would talk to him for a week.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 03:14:56 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

So far, everybody else has offered brute-force sollutions. I'll bet this
is
faster and easier. Center punch the center, draw a circle 7/64" smaller
than the finished hole, prick marks on this circle 1/8" apart, use an air
drill and 1/8" stub bits and drill these holes, knock-out the slug,
clean-up
with a tapered reamer, finish with a sized reamer.

If you are really careful, a .243 winchester will make a nice
.308-315 hole in a frame. Might have to grind off a little crater wall
...

Maybe there is (or could be) a tool that could do this; small shaped charges
and something like the concrete nail thing that you hit with a hammer to set
off the cartridge.

That gives a different twist to 'overkill'.


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 03:14:56 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

So far, everybody else has offered brute-force sollutions. I'll bet this
is
faster and easier. Center punch the center, draw a circle 7/64" smaller
than the finished hole, prick marks on this circle 1/8" apart, use an air
drill and 1/8" stub bits and drill these holes, knock-out the slug,
clean-up
with a tapered reamer, finish with a sized reamer.

If you are really careful, a .243 winchester will make a nice
.308-315 hole in a frame. Might have to grind off a little crater wall
...

GUnner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

If you are really careful, a .243 winchester will make a nice
.308-315 hole in a frame. Might have to grind off a little crater wall

True, but the desired hole is .625. If the relationship between bullet
diameter and hole
size holds true, it looks like the tool of choice would probably be the 50
BMG.
Should produce a hole in the .620-.640 range. Use AP rounds if you want
matching
holes on both frame rails.

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:49:16 -0400, "jtaylor"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 03:14:56 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

So far, everybody else has offered brute-force sollutions. I'll bet this
is
faster and easier. Center punch the center, draw a circle 7/64" smaller
than the finished hole, prick marks on this circle 1/8" apart, use an air
drill and 1/8" stub bits and drill these holes, knock-out the slug,
clean-up
with a tapered reamer, finish with a sized reamer.

If you are really careful, a .243 winchester will make a nice
.308-315 hole in a frame. Might have to grind off a little crater wall
...

Maybe there is (or could be) a tool that could do this; small shaped charges
and something like the concrete nail thing that you hit with a hammer to set
off the cartridge.

Ayup..or the hole punch the rail road uses to shoot holes through the
web of rail road tracks. Uses a 45-70 cartridge and a penetrator.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 14:14:40 GMT, "Ace"
wrote:

That gives a different twist to 'overkill'.

If you hand load, that hole would cost about $.20 and take about 1
minute to make, given you really need to look at the other side of the
rail and make there there are no brake lines and whatnot.

Gunner, who has punched holes in metal for fasteners with firearms
before

Okie Engineering..its an art form.





"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 03:14:56 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

So far, everybody else has offered brute-force sollutions. I'll bet this
is
faster and easier. Center punch the center, draw a circle 7/64" smaller
than the finished hole, prick marks on this circle 1/8" apart, use an air
drill and 1/8" stub bits and drill these holes, knock-out the slug,
clean-up
with a tapered reamer, finish with a sized reamer.

If you are really careful, a .243 winchester will make a nice
.308-315 hole in a frame. Might have to grind off a little crater wall
...

GUnner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner


"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 07:02:14 -0800, "Bill Marrs"
wrote:


If you are really careful, a .243 winchester will make a nice
.308-315 hole in a frame. Might have to grind off a little crater wall

True, but the desired hole is .625. If the relationship between bullet
diameter and hole
size holds true, it looks like the tool of choice would probably be the 50
BMG.
Should produce a hole in the .620-.640 range. Use AP rounds if you want
matching
holes on both frame rails.

It wouldnt need AP..regular ball will do quite nicely G

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 19:08:15 GMT, Gunner Asch wrote:

If you hand load, that hole would cost about $.20 and take about 1
minute to make, given you really need to look at the other side of the
rail and make there there are no brake lines and whatnot.

Gunner, who has punched holes in metal for fasteners with firearms
before

I've done that as well. It was priceless when the people who got the
work, realized how the holes had been formed. It's great having a 200
yard range right out the doors to my workshop.

If you are really careful, a .243 winchester will make a nice
.308-315 hole in a frame. Might have to grind off a little crater wall
...
Now see, you didn't read the post! He wants a 5/8 hole! I don't know of a
projectile that will leave a 16mm hole or a "powder-actuated" punch would
have been my first choice.

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 19:19:00 GMT, Ignoramus24987
wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 05:04:12 GMT, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 03:14:56 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

So far, everybody else has offered brute-force sollutions. I'll bet this is
faster and easier. Center punch the center, draw a circle 7/64" smaller
than the finished hole, prick marks on this circle 1/8" apart, use an air
drill and 1/8" stub bits and drill these holes, knock-out the slug, clean-up
with a tapered reamer, finish with a sized reamer.

If you are really careful, a .243 winchester will make a nice
.308-315 hole in a frame. Might have to grind off a little crater wall

I once shot a nice hole through a railroad tie plate with a 7.62x54R
Mosin-Nagant rifle.

So how do you deal with the "Come-backs" in this situation if that
bullet decides not to punch through but to bounce?

It's bad enough trying to punch concrete nails into seasoned
underground garage ceiling slabs with a Remington .22 and having the
nails hit the first chunk of quartz gravel and make a U-turn. After
the first two bounces you give up and get the drill.

I don't want to think about a bullet bouncing back...

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 06:28:04 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 19:19:00 GMT, Ignoramus24987
wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 05:04:12 GMT, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 03:14:56 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

So far, everybody else has offered brute-force sollutions. I'll bet this is
faster and easier. Center punch the center, draw a circle 7/64" smaller
than the finished hole, prick marks on this circle 1/8" apart, use an air
drill and 1/8" stub bits and drill these holes, knock-out the slug, clean-up
with a tapered reamer, finish with a sized reamer.

If you are really careful, a .243 winchester will make a nice
.308-315 hole in a frame. Might have to grind off a little crater wall

I once shot a nice hole through a railroad tie plate with a 7.62x54R
Mosin-Nagant rifle.

So how do you deal with the "Come-backs" in this situation if that
bullet decides not to punch through but to bounce?

It's bad enough trying to punch concrete nails into seasoned
underground garage ceiling slabs with a Remington .22 and having the
nails hit the first chunk of quartz gravel and make a U-turn. After
the first two bounces you give up and get the drill.

I don't want to think about a bullet bouncing back...

-- Bruce --

Only pistol bullets bounce back. Rifle bullets..now you may get a
spray of fragments..generally splatter from the steel target, but
rifle bullets break up. We are not talking AP here..cupronickle
jacket with a lead core.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

According to B.B. u:
In article s.com,
(DoN. Nichols) wrote:

Hmm ... I would check to see whether a step drill (UniBit is one

Steps are nowhere near deep enough. The frame rails are at least 3/8
of an inch thick, and I got stuck with a doubled frame. I also haven't
seen a step bit that tops out at 5/8, but for what I suspect it costs I
could get my own reamer anyway.

O.K. I've got one which tops out at 7/8" IIRC, but that plate
thickness would be a killer.

[ ... ]

Different angle of cut (as was mentioned by another), and you
are running it at a much slower speed (manual power, instead of air or
electric drill).

No, it was also chucked in the drill. But I did make sure to run it
much more slowly.

Hmm ... I thought that the bridge reamers were designed to be
driven by a wrench, so they have a square shaft.

[ ... ]

Work hardening does not need much heat.

Do you happen to know the physics involved in work hardening? I've
never understood how it's even possible. I figure if I know how the
process works I can avoid it next time.

I *think* that it is simply a matter of crystals being oriented
by the pressure on the metal. Rub or roll on the metal (such as a drill
bit without enough force) and you get hardening.

[ ... ]

Not sure for the bridge reamer, but I would probably use
Molly-Dee (Molybdenum Disulfide in oil) with the step drill.

What's a product name I can search for? "Molly-dee" just got me some
stupid song's lyrics. Adding "oil" got me articles mentioning cutting
fluid, but nothing about where to get the stuff.

Molly-Dee *is* a brand name. It is made by Castrol, and I get
mine from MSC from time to time.

If you don't know about MSC, call 1-800-645-7270 and register
with them. They will send you a 4000+ page catalog every year which is
full of things which can help you. They will also send you several
sales flyers each month. (I just looked through the flyer which arrived
today, and Molly-Dee is not there, so your price would be a bit higher
than when a sales price is in effect.

Next time I do this I'll try rigging up some sort of leverage so that
I can mash down on the drill more efficiently. If I can get some access
to machine tools I can build a setup based on the auxiliary handle my
drill already comes with. I'm thinking a clamp-on collar with an air
cylinder and three chain hooks. Chain it to the frame, use a regulator
to set the pressure I want, and pull the trigger. But I'll probably get
get a pipe and wedge it against the handle. (:

Good luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article rs.com,
(DoN. Nichols) wrote:

[...]

No, it was also chucked in the drill. But I did make sure to run it
much more slowly.

Hmm ... I thought that the bridge reamers were designed to be
driven by a wrench, so they have a square shaft.

I've seen several types of shanks on 'em. Perhaps "bridge reamer"
means a specific style of shank and I'm misusing the term. I've seen
square taper for a brace, hex for a wrench, and round with three flats
to fit a drill chuck. I've seen all three with the same business end.
(left hand spiral, right hand cut, gentle taper) I've also seen one
advertised as a "bridge reamer" that had straight flutes and a T-handle.
As far as I can tell a bridge reamer is anything that's designed to
widen and align holes.

Work hardening does not need much heat.

Do you happen to know the physics involved in work hardening? I've
never understood how it's even possible. I figure if I know how the
process works I can avoid it next time.

I *think* that it is simply a matter of crystals being oriented
by the pressure on the metal. Rub or roll on the metal (such as a drill
bit without enough force) and you get hardening.

Hmm. So kind of like a cross between forging and burnishing? Now,
regular heat treating moves harder alloying agents into different
crystal arrangements. Is that possible to do mechanically, or is it
just a case of the existing crystals are far harder to separate when
attacked from a specific angle?
I need to go to the library.

[ ... ]

Not sure for the bridge reamer, but I would probably use
Molly-Dee (Molybdenum Disulfide in oil) with the step drill.

What's a product name I can search for? "Molly-dee" just got me some
stupid song's lyrics. Adding "oil" got me articles mentioning cutting
fluid, but nothing about where to get the stuff.

Molly-Dee *is* a brand name. It is made by Castrol, and I get
mine from MSC from time to time.

Indeed. I managed to locate it after sending that message off.

If you don't know about MSC, call 1-800-645-7270 and register
with them. They will send you a 4000+ page catalog every year which is
full of things which can help you. They will also send you several
sales flyers each month. (I just looked through the flyer which arrived
today, and Molly-Dee is not there, so your price would be a bit higher
than when a sales price is in effect.

Yup, I know 'em. Ordered my toolbox from them, in fact. It was
supposed to be here last tuesday, but got lost in the mail. Supposed to
arrive for real tomorrow, but still uncertain. MSC has been good--it's
the shipping company that's screwing my pooch. After a whole series of
phone calls and threats I got those idiots to locate my toolbox--about a
mile from me, in their distribution center, where it's been since five
days before it was due to be delivered. I feel like I know Bobbi over
at MSC now. (:
I also requested a catalog, so I'm going to see which arrives here
first.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net