From the New York Post, Letters to the Editors page:

======

I offer a proposal: The U.S. military will withdraw from Iraq, the
Patriot Act will not be renewed and the United States will stop
monitoring phone calls by potential terrorists.

In return, if there is another terrorist attack on the United States,
the Democratic Party will disband and contribute all of its assets to
the families of victims, all Democratic senators and congressmen will
resign and The New York Times will contribute $1 trillion to the fund
for the families.

Fair deal?

Richard Slawsky
Milford, Conn.

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

In article , Gunner Asch says...

I offer a proposal:

Counterproposal, leave it all the way it is, and if
there's another, then bush, cheney, rove, etc. resign.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
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==================================================

You take one lousy week off to join Thorax at the Elvis concert, and this
is what happens: jim rozen writes on 27 Dec 2005
14:38:31 -0800 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
In article , Gunner Asch says...

I offer a proposal:

Counterproposal, leave it all the way it is, and if
there's another, then bush, cheney, rove, etc. resign.

Yet another Democrat who feels that if only we would stop annoying the
terrorist, everything would be lovely.

Say, why don't you return to your pre-September 11th position: head in
sand, ass in air?



toodles

--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

"jim rozen" wrote

Counterproposal, leave it all the way it is, and if
there's another, then bush, cheney, rove, etc. resign.


Nah. If we get hit again, it will be proof that Bush needed _more_ powers
to "protect us". The PATRIOT act, NSA surveillance, secret prisons,
torture, toppling Saddam -- all this will obviously not have been enough.
Any bets on what powers Dick and Dubya will demand _next_?

-- TP

tonyp wrote:

Nah. If we get hit again, it will be proof that Bush needed _more_ powers
to "protect us". The PATRIOT act, NSA surveillance, secret prisons,
torture, toppling Saddam -- all this will obviously not have been enough.
Any bets on what powers Dick and Dubya will demand _next_?


Just imagine how wonderful things would be if Kerry had been elected.
He was in Vietnam, you know.
GW

Get out of Iraq now or in a year or two you will be going into Wal-Mart and
see: "Made in Iraq" stickers on all sorts of stuff. This has the Chinese
worried and THEY are financing the terrorists...and the Democrats.


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

From the New York Post, Letters to the Editors page:

======

I offer a proposal: The U.S. military will withdraw from Iraq, the
Patriot Act will not be renewed and the United States will stop
monitoring phone calls by potential terrorists.

In return, if there is another terrorist attack on the United States,
the Democratic Party will disband and contribute all of its assets to
the families of victims, all Democratic senators and congressmen will
resign and The New York Times will contribute $1 trillion to the fund
for the families.

Fair deal?

Richard Slawsky
Milford, Conn.

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"tonyp" wrote in message
...

"jim rozen" wrote

Counterproposal, leave it all the way it is, and if
there's another, then bush, cheney, rove, etc. resign.


Nah. If we get hit again, it will be proof that Bush needed _more_
powers
to "protect us". The PATRIOT act, NSA surveillance, secret prisons,
torture, toppling Saddam -- all this will obviously not have been
enough.
Any bets on what powers Dick and Dubya will demand _next_?

-- TP



Well since you seem to think that by just leaving everything will be
fine. This is what is happening in countries that welcome the terrorists
and their friends with open arms.


By Sharon Lapkin
FrontPageMagazine.com | December 27, 2005
In Australia, Norway, Sweden and other Western nations, there is a
distinct race-based crime in motion being ignored by the diversity
police: Islamic men are raping Western women for ethnic reasons. We know
this because the rapists have openly declared their sectarian
motivations.

When a number of teenage Australian girls were subjected to hours of
sexual degradation during a spate of gang rapes in Sydney that occurred
between 1998 and 2002, the perpetrators of these assaults framed their
rationale in ethnic terms. The young victims were informed that they
were "sluts" and "Aussie pigs" while they were being hunted down and
abused.

In Australia's New South Wales Supreme Court in December 2005, a
visiting Pakistani rapist testified that his victims had no right to say
no, because they were not wearing a headscarf.

And earlier this year Australians were outraged when Lebanese Sheik Faiz
Mohammed gave a lecture in Sydney where he informed his audience that
rape victims had no one to blame but themselves. Women, he said, who
wore skimpy clothing, invited men to rape them.

A few months earlier, in Copenhagen, Islamic mufti and scholar, Shahid
Mehdi created uproar when - like his peer in Australia - he stated that
women who did not wear a headscarf were asking to be raped.

And with haunting synchronicity in 2004, the London Telegraph reported
that visiting Egyptian scholar Sheik Yusaf al-Qaradawi claimed female
rape victims should be punished if they were dressed immodestly when
they were raped. He added, "For her to be absolved from guilt, a raped
woman must have shown good conduct."

In Norway and Sweden, journalist Fjordman warns of a rape epidemic.
Police Inspector Gunnar Larsen stated that the steady increase of
rape-cases and the link to ethnicity are clear, unmistakable trends. Two
out of three persecutions for rape in Oslo are immigrants with a
non-Western background and 80 percent of the victims are Norwegian
women.

In Sweden, according to translator for Jihad Watch, Ali Dashti, "Gang
rapes, usually involving Muslim immigrant males and native Swedish
girls, have become commonplace." A few weeks ago she said, "Five Kurds
brutally raped a 13-year-old Swedish girl."

In France, Samira Bellil broke her silence - after enduring years of
repeated gang rapes in one of the Muslim populated public housing
projects - and wrote a book, In the hell of the tournantes, that shocked
France. Describing how gang rape is rampant in the banlieues, she
explained to Time that, "any neighborhood girl who smokes, uses makeup
or wears attractive clothes is a whore."
Unfortunately, Western women are not the only victims in this epidemic.
In Indonesia, in 1998, human rights groups documented the testimony of
over 100 Chinese women who were gang raped during the riots that
preceded the fall of President Suharto. Many of them were told: "You
must be raped, because you are Chinese and non-Muslim."
Christian Solidarity Worldwide reported that in April 2005, a 9-year-old
Pakistani girl was raped, beaten with a cricket bat, hanged upside down
from the ceiling, had spoonfuls of chillies poured into her mouth, and
repeatedly bashed while handcuffed. Her Muslim neighbours told her they
were taking revenge for the American bombing of Iraqi children and
informed her they were doing it because she was an "infidel and a
Christian."
In Sudan - where Arab Muslims slaughter black Muslim and Christian
Sudanese in an ongoing genocide - former Sudanese slave and now a human
rights' activist Simon Deng says he witnessed girls and women being
raped and that the Arab regime of Khartoum sends its soldiers to the
field to rape and murder. In other reports, women who are captured by
government forces are asked; "Are you Christian or Muslim?" and those
who answer Christian, are gang raped before having their breasts cut
off.

This phenomenon of Islamic sexual violence against women should be
treated as the urgent, violent, repressive epidemic it is. Instead,
journalists, academics, and politicians ignore it, rationalize it, or
ostracize those who dare discuss it.

In Australia, when journalist Paul Sheehan reported honestly on the
Sydney gang rapes, he was called a racist and accused of stirring up
anti-Muslim hatred. And when he reported in his Sydney Morning Herald
column that there was a high incidence of crime amongst Sydney's
Lebanese community, fellow journalist, David Marr sent him an e-mail
stating, "That is a disgraceful column that reflects poorly on us all at
the Herald."
Keysar Trad, vice-president of the Australian Lebanese Muslim
Association said the gang rapes were a "heinous" crime but complained it
was "rather unfair" that the ethnicity of the rapists had been reported.

Journalist Miranda Devine reported during the same rape trials that all
reference to ethnicity had been deleted from the victim impact statement
because the prosecutors wanted to negotiate a plea bargain.

So when Judge Megan Latham declared, "There is no evidence before me of
any racial element in the commission of these offences," everyone
believed her. And the court, the politicians and most of the press may
as well have raped the girls again.

Retired Australian detective Tim Priest warned in 2004 that the Lebanese
gangs, which emerged in Sydney in the 1990s - when the police were
asleep - had morphed out of control. "The Lebanese groups," he said, "
were ruthless, extremely violent, and they intimidated not only innocent
witnesses, but even the police that attempted to arrest them."

Priest describes how in 2001, in a Muslim dominated area of Sydney two
policemen stopped a car containing three well-known Middle Eastern men
to search for stolen property. As the police carried out their search
they were physically threatened and the three men claimed they were
going to track them down, kill them and then rape their girlfriends.

According to Priest, it didn't end there. As the Sydney police called
for backup the three men used their mobile phones to call their
associates, and within minutes, 20 Middle Eastern men arrived on the
scene. They punched and pushed the police and damaged state vehicles.
The police retreated and the gang followed them to the police station
where they intimidated staff, damaged property and held the police
station hostage.

Eventually the gang left, the police licked their wounds, and not one of
them took action against the Middle Eastern men. Priest claims, "In the
minds of the local population, the police are cowards and the message
was, 'Lebanese [Muslim gangs] rule the streets.'"

In France, in the banlieues, where gang rape is now known simply as
tournantes or 'pass-around,' victims know the police will not protect
them. If they complain, Samir Bellil said, they know that they and their
families will be threatened.

However, Muslim women in the French ghettos are finally fighting back
against gang rape and police non-action. They have begun a movement
called, "We're neither whores nor doormats." They are struggling against
the intrinsic violence that plagues their neighbourhoods and the culture
that condones it.

In most French prosecutions, the Muslim rapists state that they do not
believe they have committed a crime. And in a frightening parallel with
the gang rapists in Australia, they claim the victim herself is to blame
and accuse her of being a "slut" or a "whore."

According to The Guardian, during the recent French riots, a Saudi
Prince with shares in News Corporation boasted to a conference in Dubai
that he had phoned Rupert Murdoch and complained about Fox News
describing the disturbances as "Muslim riots." Within half an hour he
said, it was changed to "civil riots."

Swedish translator, Ali Dashti, stated that in Sweden when three men
raped a 22-year-old woman recently, they said one word to her. "Whore."
Such stories, according to Dashti, are in the Swedish newspapers every
week. And, the politically correct "take great care not to mention the
ethnic background of the perpetrators."

Sweden's English newspaper The Local reported in July that Malmo police
commander Bengt Lindström had been charged with inciting racial hatred.
He sent e-mails from his home computer to two city officials. To the
head of healthcare, he wrote: "You...treat old Swedes who have worked
hard building up the fatherland like parasites and would rather give my
taxes to criminals called Mohammed from Rosengärd."

In Malmo, the third largest city in Sweden, the police have admitted,
Dashti says, that they no longer control the city. "It is effectively
ruled by violent gangs of Muslim immigrants." Ambulance personnel are
regularly attacked and spat upon and are now refusing to help until a
police escort arrives. The police are too afraid to enter parts of the
city without backup.

In early 2005, Norwegian newspapers reported that Oslo had recorded the
highest ever number of rape cases in the previous twelve months.
However, Fjordman explained, the official statistics contained no data
regarding "how immigrants were grossly over represented in rape cases",
and the media remain so strangely silent.

Oslo Professor of Anthropology, Unni Wikan, said Norwegian women must
take responsibility for the fact that Muslim men find their manner of
dress provocative. And since these men believe women are responsible for
rape, she stated, the women must adapt to the multicultural society
around them.

The BBC pulled a documentary scheduled for screening in 2004, after
police in Britain warned it could increase racial tension. "In these
exceptional circumstances... Channel 4 as a responsible broadcaster has
agreed to the police's request..." The documentary was to show how
Pakistani and other Muslim men sexually abused young, white English
girls as young as 11.

The number of rapes committed by Muslim men against women in the last
decade is so incredibly high that it cannot be viewed as anything other
than culturally implicit behaviour. It is overtly reinforced and
sanctioned by Islamic religious leaders who blame the victims and excuse
the rapists.

In three decades of immigration into Western countries, Islam has caused
social upheaval and havoc in every one of its host countries. No other
immigration program has encountered the problems of non-assimilation and
religious ambiguity.

Everywhere in the world, Muslims are in conflict with their neighbours.
And as Mark Steyn recently said, every conflict appears to have
originated by someone with the name of Mohammed.

In July 2005, Melbourne Sheik Mohammad Omran told Sixty Minutes that
"...we believe we have more rights than you because we choose Australia
to be our home and you didn't. "

In the same interview visiting Sheik Khalid Yasin warned "There's no
such thing as a Muslim having a non-Muslim friend, so a non-Muslim could
be your associate but they can't be a friend. They're not your friend
because they don't understand your religious principles and they cannot
because they don't understand your faith."

Despite being told over and over by Islamic scholars, and witnessing
massive influxes of Islamic crime, Western countries continue to believe
in the reality of assimilation and moral relativism.

In Australia, Lebanese Christians have assimilated and become a
respected part of our community. The Premier of Victoria is a Lebanese
Christian as is the Governor Of New South Wales. However, Lebanese
Muslims have encountered serious problems because of their refusal to
accept our right to live our way of life. Nothing so clearly
demonstrates that it is not an issue of race - but of culture.



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"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
t...
Get out of Iraq now or in a year or two you will be going into Wal-Mart
and
see: "Made in Iraq" stickers on all sorts of stuff. This has the Chinese
worried and THEY are financing the terrorists...and the Democrats.

But they're covering their bases. They're also financing the aliens, the
Moonies, and the American Nazi Party.

They're no fools.

--
Ed Huntress

Gunner Asch wrote:
From the New York Post, Letters to the Editors page:

======

I offer a proposal: The U.S. military will withdraw from Iraq, the
Patriot Act will not be renewed and the United States will stop
monitoring phone calls by potential terrorists.

In return, if there is another terrorist attack on the United States,
the Democratic Party will disband and contribute all of its assets to
the families of victims, all Democratic senators and congressmen will
resign and The New York Times will contribute $1 trillion to the fund
for the families.

Fair deal?

Richard Slawsky
Milford, Conn.




OH, FER CRISSAKES,
I've never heard anything more assinine.This guy's neck is redder than
the dick of the dog he just finished sucking.

In article , pyotr filipivich
says...

Counterproposal, leave it all the way it is, and if
there's another, then bush, cheney, rove, etc. resign.

Yet another Democrat who feels that if only we would stop annoying the
terrorist, everything would be lovely.

You seem to be missing the point. The claim is that the present
administrations approach to the problem is entirely correct.

If it is, then why *wouldn't* they put their money (jobs)
where their mouth is? After all, that's what gunner's post
was saying.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
t...
Get out of Iraq now or in a year or two you will be going into Wal-Mart
and
see: "Made in Iraq" stickers on all sorts of stuff. This has the
Chinese
worried and THEY are financing the terrorists...and the Democrats.

But they're covering their bases. They're also financing the aliens, the
Moonies, and the American Nazi Party.

They're no fools.

But, I need to know who is financing the Japanese mafia that is financing
the Russian extreamists to use their ULF transmitters to control the weather
to send huricanes against poor black people while they are looting Wal-Marts
below sea level, and why haven't we picked it up on our wiretaps.

--
Ed Huntress

Let me guess.....you're a liberal, right? Maybe it was the interesting
word selection that tipped me off.

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
t...
Get out of Iraq now or in a year or two you will be going into Wal-Mart
and
see: "Made in Iraq" stickers on all sorts of stuff. This has the
Chinese
worried and THEY are financing the terrorists...and the Democrats.

But they're covering their bases. They're also financing the aliens, the
Moonies, and the American Nazi Party.

They're no fools.

But, I need to know who is financing the Japanese mafia that is financing
the Russian extreamists to use their ULF transmitters to control the
weather
to send huricanes against poor black people while they are looting
Wal-Marts
below sea level, and why haven't we picked it up on our wiretaps.

Ah, that would be the John, Birch Society's retirement fund, which is being
used illegally for political purposes. They're filed with the IRS as a
charitable art organization, the Society for the Preservation of Wooden
Toilet Seats (it's registered as the Birch John Society -- nobody notices
the comma in their published name).

Jeez, it's late. I'm going to bed...

--
Ed Huntress

Steve W. wrote:
"tonyp" wrote in message
...

"jim rozen" wrote


Counterproposal, leave it all the way it is, and if
there's another, then bush, cheney, rove, etc. resign.


Nah. If we get hit again, it will be proof that Bush needed _more_

powers

to "protect us". The PATRIOT act, NSA surveillance, secret prisons,
torture, toppling Saddam -- all this will obviously not have been

enough.

Any bets on what powers Dick and Dubya will demand _next_?

-- TP




Well since you seem to think that by just leaving everything will be
fine. This is what is happening in countries that welcome the terrorists
and their friends with open arms.


By Sharon Lapkin
FrontPageMagazine.com | December 27, 2005

SNIPPED FOR SPACE..

I lived in the Middle East amongst Muslims for several years, and find
that Islam is generally quite intolerant of "non-believers",
"non-Muslims", or, as stated in the Koran, "infidels."

Ms. Lapkin only confirms in her article, what the gentleman below has to
say in his letter/article written some time ago, of what come to be...

Bill

It takes a few minutes to read this...but it would be well if every
American read it very thoughtfully.

**************************

Dear Readers,

I had no idea who General Chong is or the source of these thoughts... so
when I received them, I almost deleted them - as well-written as they
are. But then I did "Google and USA Today? searches on the General and
found him to be a retired Air Force Surgeon, of all things, and past
Commander of Wilford Hall Medical Center in San Antonio. So, he is real,
is connected to Veterans affairs, and these are his thoughts. They are
worth reading and thinking about!! (the same Google search will direct
you to some of his other thought-provoking writings.)

MG Vernon Chong, USAFR forwarded:


This WAR is for REAL!

To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country
is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it,
that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).

The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are
very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer
who realize what losing really means.

First, let's examine a few basics:

1. When did the threat to us start?

Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United States
is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the
following attacks on us:

* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;
* Pentagon 2001.

(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581
terrorist attacks worldwide).

2. Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks
happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush
1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or
Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or
their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.

3. Who were the attackers?

In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%.

5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful?

Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the
predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under
the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made
no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were
eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for
political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests). (see
http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm )

Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as
the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom
heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept
the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone
who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world
- German, Christian or any others.

Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but
kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone
else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no
protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims
there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim
leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own
pronouncements -- killing all of us "infidels." I don't blame the
peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?

6. So who are we at war with?

There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the
Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid
verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if
you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.

So with that background, now to the two major questions:

1. Can we lose this war?

2. What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions.

We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the
major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the
answer to the second question - What does losing mean?

It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means
hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our
business, like post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can
get. What losing really means is:

We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will
not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us
dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not
have produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past
18 years. The plan was clearly, for terrorist to attack us, until we
were neutered and submissive to them.

We would of course have no future support from other nations, for fear
of reprisals and for the reason that they would see, we are impotent and
cannot help them.

They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will
be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It
doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its
troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed
their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they
want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they
might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished
too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us.
However, it may already be too late for France. France is already 20%
Muslim and fading fast!

If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will
all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us,
if they were threatened by the Muslims.

If we can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else?

The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are
completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and
be likewise committed to winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple.
Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put
100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take
that 100% effort to win.

So, how can we lose the war?

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That
is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their
purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to the war
effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we
continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win!

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the
life and death seriousness of this situation.

President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation.
Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men
between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow
profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This
is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the
civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to
lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose
all of them permanently.

And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil
rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and
in fact added many more since then.

Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?

No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our
Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict
and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to
war. Get them out of your head.

Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the
Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us
lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is
because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that
conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and
weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.

Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media
regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies
best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the
treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our
military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago
were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands,
cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just
for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein.

And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed
400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same
type enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging
their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq.

And still more recently, the same type enemy that was and is providing
videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American
prisoners they held.

Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several
days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of
some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred
corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them.

Can this be for real?

The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the
Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of
comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are
fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous
results of losing this war, nothing can.

To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this
prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned
-- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we,
nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say,
this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are
disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the
magnitude, of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim
terrorists have been pushing us, for many years.

Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels!
That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United States,
but throughout the world.

We are the last bastion of defense.

We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge
is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe
that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and
minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind
our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world!

We can't!

If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive,
and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated.

And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow
freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of
the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status
or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way
that contributes to the good of the world.

This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or
we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of
the Roman Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history
books to be written or read.

If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims
take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to
increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little
by little, on the established French traditions. The French will be
fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which
will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve.
Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?

Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some
external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away,
politically correct piece by politically correct piece.

And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown,
worldwide, that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even
to themselves, once they are in power.

They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then
start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control
the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct,
about the "peaceful Muslims"?

I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are
united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now after the election,
the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical
situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your
future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it.

After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but
ourchildren, our grandchildren, our country and the world.

Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that
includes the Politicians and media of our country and the free world!

Please forward this to any you feel may want, or NEED to read it. Our
"leaders" in Congress ought to read it, too.

There are those that find fault with our country, but it is obvious to
anyone who truly thinks through this, that we must UNITE!

On 27 Dec 2005 19:41:14 -0800, "doo" wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:
From the New York Post, Letters to the Editors page:

======

I offer a proposal: The U.S. military will withdraw from Iraq, the
Patriot Act will not be renewed and the United States will stop
monitoring phone calls by potential terrorists.

In return, if there is another terrorist attack on the United States,
the Democratic Party will disband and contribute all of its assets to
the families of victims, all Democratic senators and congressmen will
resign and The New York Times will contribute $1 trillion to the fund
for the families.

Fair deal?

Richard Slawsky
Milford, Conn.




OH, FER CRISSAKES,
I've never heard anything more assinine.This guy's neck is redder than
the dick of the dog he just finished sucking.

You know something about dog dick sucking?
Im not surprised.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

G.W. wrote:
tonyp wrote:

Nah. If we get hit again, it will be proof that Bush needed _more_ powers
to "protect us". The PATRIOT act, NSA surveillance, secret prisons,
torture, toppling Saddam -- all this will obviously not have been enough.
Any bets on what powers Dick and Dubya will demand _next_?



Just imagine how wonderful things would be if Kerry had been elected.
He was in Vietnam, you know.
GW

....and Cambodia. Christmas, it was.

Tom

Stop. You are scaring me.
I'm going to get under the bed now.

Rex

Tom Gardner wrote:
Get out of Iraq now or in a year or two you will be going into Wal-Mart and
see: "Made in Iraq" stickers on all sorts of stuff. This has the Chinese
worried and THEY are financing the terrorists...and the Democrats.


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

From the New York Post, Letters to the Editors page:

======


I offer a proposal: The U.S. military will withdraw from Iraq, the
Patriot Act will not be renewed and the United States will stop
monitoring phone calls by potential terrorists.

In return, if there is another terrorist attack on the United States,
the Democratic Party will disband and contribute all of its assets to
the families of victims, all Democratic senators and congressmen will
resign and The New York Times will contribute $1 trillion to the fund
for the families.

Fair deal?

Richard Slawsky
Milford, Conn.

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

BillP wrote:


Dear Readers,

I had no idea who General Chong is or the source of these thoughts... so

Correction:

......was not written by General Chong.

http://www.patrio****ch.com/GeneralChong.htm

when I received them, I almost deleted them - as well-written as they
are. But then I did "Google and USA Today? searches on the General and

First link on Goolge search above.


found him to be a retired Air Force Surgeon, of all things, and past
Commander of Wilford Hall Medical Center in San Antonio. So, he is real,
is connected to Veterans affairs, and these are his thoughts. They are
worth reading and thinking about!! (the same Google search will direct
you to some of his other thought-provoking writings.)

MG Vernon Chong, USAFR forwarded:

Donald wrote:
BillP wrote:


Dear Readers,

I had no idea who General Chong is or the source of these thoughts... so


Correction:

.....was not written by General Chong.

http://www.patrio****ch.com/GeneralChong.htm

when I received them, I almost deleted them - as well-written as they
are. But then I did "Google and USA Today? searches on the General and


First link on Goolge search above.


found him to be a retired Air Force Surgeon, of all things, and past
Commander of Wilford Hall Medical Center in San Antonio. So, he is
real, is connected to Veterans affairs, and these are his thoughts.
They are worth reading and thinking about!! (the same Google search
will direct you to some of his other thought-provoking writings.)

MG Vernon Chong, USAFR forwarded:



Thanks for the correction, Donald... At least the source is now verified
and the information disseminated....

Bill

"doo" wrote in message

OH, FER CRISSAKES,
I've never heard anything more assinine.This guy's neck is redder than
the dick of the dog he just finished sucking.

What a load of dog-doo. Everybody knows Gunner is a cat person.
Emil

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 21:09:37 GMT, "Tom Wait"
wrote:


"doo" wrote in message

OH, FER CRISSAKES,
I've never heard anything more assinine.This guy's neck is redder than
the dick of the dog he just finished sucking.

What a load of dog-doo. Everybody knows Gunner is a cat person.
Emil


Ayup..I simply love pussy.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

You take one lousy week off to join Thorax at the Elvis concert, and this
is what happens: Rex B writes on Wed, 28 Dec 2005
08:52:22 -0600 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
G.W. wrote:
tonyp wrote:

Nah. If we get hit again, it will be proof that Bush needed _more_ powers
to "protect us". The PATRIOT act, NSA surveillance, secret prisons,
torture, toppling Saddam -- all this will obviously not have been enough.
Any bets on what powers Dick and Dubya will demand _next_?



Just imagine how wonderful things would be if Kerry had been elected.
He was in Vietnam, you know.
GW

...and Cambodia. Christmas, it was.

And he personally witnessed torture and other war crimes too. It was
seared into his brain.

Or was that a scene from The Deer Hunter?


tschus
pyotr


--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

You take one lousy week off to join Thorax at the Elvis concert, and this
is what happens: Rex B writes on Wed, 28 Dec 2005
08:59:05 -0600 in rec.crafts.metalworking :


Tom Gardner wrote:
Get out of Iraq now or in a year or two you will be going into Wal-Mart and
see: "Made in Iraq" stickers on all sorts of stuff. This has the Chinese
worried and THEY are financing the terrorists...and the Democrats.


Tom

Stop. You are scaring me.
I'm going to get under the bed now.

Rex

That ain't the half of it. It will take a couple generations, but
don't be surprise to see Iraqi baseball players in the Major leagues a
couple decades down the road ...
--
pyotr filipivich
Typos, Grammos and da kind are the result of ragin hormones
Fortesque Consulting: Teaching Pigs to Sing since 1968.