Steve W. wrote:
"tonyp" wrote in message
...

"jim rozen" wrote


Counterproposal, leave it all the way it is, and if
there's another, then bush, cheney, rove, etc. resign.


Nah. If we get hit again, it will be proof that Bush needed _more_

powers

to "protect us". The PATRIOT act, NSA surveillance, secret prisons,
torture, toppling Saddam -- all this will obviously not have been

enough.

Any bets on what powers Dick and Dubya will demand _next_?

-- TP




Well since you seem to think that by just leaving everything will be
fine. This is what is happening in countries that welcome the terrorists
and their friends with open arms.


By Sharon Lapkin
FrontPageMagazine.com | December 27, 2005

SNIPPED FOR SPACE..

I lived in the Middle East amongst Muslims for several years, and find
that Islam is generally quite intolerant of "non-believers",
"non-Muslims", or, as stated in the Koran, "infidels."

Ms. Lapkin only confirms in her article, what the gentleman below has to
say in his letter/article written some time ago, of what come to be...

Bill

It takes a few minutes to read this...but it would be well if every
American read it very thoughtfully.

**************************

Dear Readers,

I had no idea who General Chong is or the source of these thoughts... so
when I received them, I almost deleted them - as well-written as they
are. But then I did "Google and USA Today? searches on the General and
found him to be a retired Air Force Surgeon, of all things, and past
Commander of Wilford Hall Medical Center in San Antonio. So, he is real,
is connected to Veterans affairs, and these are his thoughts. They are
worth reading and thinking about!! (the same Google search will direct
you to some of his other thought-provoking writings.)

MG Vernon Chong, USAFR forwarded:


This WAR is for REAL!

To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country
is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it,
that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).

The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are
very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer
who realize what losing really means.

First, let's examine a few basics:

1. When did the threat to us start?

Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United States
is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the
following attacks on us:

* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;
* Pentagon 2001.

(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581
terrorist attacks worldwide).

2. Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks
happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush
1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or
Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or
their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.

3. Who were the attackers?

In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%.

5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful?

Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the
predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under
the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made
no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were
eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for
political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests). (see
http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm )

Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as
the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom
heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept
the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone
who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world
- German, Christian or any others.

Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but
kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone
else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no
protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims
there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim
leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own
pronouncements -- killing all of us "infidels." I don't blame the
peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?

6. So who are we at war with?

There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the
Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid
verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if
you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.

So with that background, now to the two major questions:

1. Can we lose this war?

2. What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions.

We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the
major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the
answer to the second question - What does losing mean?

It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means
hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our
business, like post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can
get. What losing really means is:

We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will
not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us
dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not
have produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past
18 years. The plan was clearly, for terrorist to attack us, until we
were neutered and submissive to them.

We would of course have no future support from other nations, for fear
of reprisals and for the reason that they would see, we are impotent and
cannot help them.

They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will
be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It
doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its
troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed
their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they
want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they
might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished
too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us.
However, it may already be too late for France. France is already 20%
Muslim and fading fast!

If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will
all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us,
if they were threatened by the Muslims.

If we can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else?

The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are
completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and
be likewise committed to winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple.
Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put
100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take
that 100% effort to win.

So, how can we lose the war?

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That
is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their
purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to the war
effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we
continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win!

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the
life and death seriousness of this situation.

President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation.
Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men
between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow
profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This
is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the
civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to
lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose
all of them permanently.

And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil
rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and
in fact added many more since then.

Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?

No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our
Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict
and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to
war. Get them out of your head.

Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the
Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us
lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is
because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that
conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and
weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.

Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media
regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies
best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the
treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our
military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago
were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands,
cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just
for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein.

And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed
400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same
type enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging
their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq.

And still more recently, the same type enemy that was and is providing
videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American
prisoners they held.

Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several
days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of
some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred
corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them.

Can this be for real?

The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the
Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of
comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are
fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous
results of losing this war, nothing can.

To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this
prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned
-- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we,
nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say,
this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are
disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the
magnitude, of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim
terrorists have been pushing us, for many years.

Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels!
That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United States,
but throughout the world.

We are the last bastion of defense.

We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge
is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe
that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and
minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind
our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world!

We can't!

If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive,
and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated.

And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow
freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of
the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status
or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way
that contributes to the good of the world.

This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or
we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of
the Roman Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history
books to be written or read.

If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims
take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to
increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little
by little, on the established French traditions. The French will be
fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which
will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve.
Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?

Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some
external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away,
politically correct piece by politically correct piece.

And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown,
worldwide, that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even
to themselves, once they are in power.

They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then
start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control
the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct,
about the "peaceful Muslims"?

I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are
united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now after the election,
the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical
situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your
future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it.

After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but
ourchildren, our grandchildren, our country and the world.

Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that
includes the Politicians and media of our country and the free world!

Please forward this to any you feel may want, or NEED to read it. Our
"leaders" in Congress ought to read it, too.

There are those that find fault with our country, but it is obvious to
anyone who truly thinks through this, that we must UNITE!