My buffers, grinders, brushes like to dance on my concrete garage
floor. A few of them have been anchored into the floor. The rest of
them need to be repositioned frequently so I can't anchor them.

What's your favorite method of keeping rotating machinery for dancing
across the floor.

I've tried scrap carpet, rubber matting, etc.

Do you have a favorite method??

aaah, usually when tools dance like that, they are out of balance - how
about balancing the wheels?
wrote in message
ups.com...
My buffers, grinders, brushes like to dance on my concrete garage
floor. A few of them have been anchored into the floor. The rest of
them need to be repositioned frequently so I can't anchor them.

What's your favorite method of keeping rotating machinery for dancing
across the floor.

I've tried scrap carpet, rubber matting, etc.

Do you have a favorite method??

Are they sitting on casters or the raw stands? If they are on casters,
cut donuts out of plywood scraps to suspend the casters slightly above
the floor. I prefer to attach them to a strong workbench or workmate.

wrote in message
ups.com...
| My buffers, grinders, brushes like to dance on my concrete garage
| floor. A few of them have been anchored into the floor. The rest of
| them need to be repositioned frequently so I can't anchor them.
|
| What's your favorite method of keeping rotating machinery for dancing
| across the floor.
|
| I've tried scrap carpet, rubber matting, etc.
|
| Do you have a favorite method??

My small grinder I've got mounted on an old truck brake drum for
dampening and then that sits on a piece of carpet which sits on my
workbench.

Adding mass is a good way to suck up a lot of the vibration. I had a
washing machine that had a big chunk of concrete bolted to the floating
part. Very nice. The more mass the better the dampening will be, but it
has to be firmly affixed to the part that generates the motion.

They are balanced but the cast iron bases on a concrete floor just
don't provide enough coefficient of friction to make them stay put.

I need an interface material that grips concrete and cast iron.

The machinery is pretty good quality (ie mostly Baldor) but some of the
pedestals are Harbor Freight crap. (i don't mind buying Baldor buffers
and grinders but their pedestals seem too high priced for what you
get).

I filled some of the pedestals with concrete to give them more mass. It
helps but there's just not enough friction between cast iron and
concrete when motors are spinning at 3600 rpm.

wrote:

They are balanced but the cast iron bases on a concrete floor just
don't provide enough coefficient of friction to make them stay put.

I need an interface material that grips concrete and cast iron.

The machinery is pretty good quality (ie mostly Baldor) but some of the
pedestals are Harbor Freight crap. (i don't mind buying Baldor buffers
and grinders but their pedestals seem too high priced for what you
get).

I filled some of the pedestals with concrete to give them more mass. It
helps but there's just not enough friction between cast iron and
concrete when motors are spinning at 3600 rpm.


Interpose a sheet of rubber (cut up truck innertube?) between the pedestal and
floor?

GWE

Grant's approach is good - I've also had good luck making feet by cutting
the tread part of an old tire = you can glue or bolt it to the base and it
will enhance friction
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
wrote:

They are balanced but the cast iron bases on a concrete floor just
don't provide enough coefficient of friction to make them stay put.

snip------

Interpose a sheet of rubber (cut up truck innertube?) between the pedestal
and floor?

GWE

On 10 Oct 2005 20:18:47 -0700, wrote:

They are balanced but the cast iron bases on a concrete floor just
don't provide enough coefficient of friction to make them stay put.

I need an interface material that grips concrete and cast iron.

The machinery is pretty good quality (ie mostly Baldor) but some of the
pedestals are Harbor Freight crap. (i don't mind buying Baldor buffers
and grinders but their pedestals seem too high priced for what you
get).

I filled some of the pedestals with concrete to give them more mass. It
helps but there's just not enough friction between cast iron and
concrete when motors are spinning at 3600 rpm.

I think you need a bigger footprint. I welded up a stand for my 2 HP
3450-RPM buffer with an H base that is 24" x 28". It doesn't dance at
all and it's easy to move. Include diagonal braces from the
extremities of the H footprint to somewhere on the column so it'll
be an acceptably stiff structure.

Underlying theory: the system must be balanced enough so it can't hop
clear off the ground. Beyond that, a dynamically unbalanced system
creates a rotating moment on the pedestal that can cause the base to
dance with rotating single-point contact to the floor. With a big
enough footprint and acceptable flexure in the pedestal and/or
compliance in the points of contact, there will always be at least
two contact points with the floor. When this condition exists, it
can't dance no matter how good the tunes on the radio. Larger
footprint means less motion at the work wheel for necessary
compliance between points of contact and dynamically-unbalanced
rotating mass if at least two points of contact are to be maintained.

A totally rigid structure supporting a dynamically unbalanced
rotating mass on a totally-noncompliant floor would dance with
single point contact and infinitesimal clearance elsewhere,
regardless of the mass of the base. Real world, no structure is
totally rigid and even a concrete floor has some compliance. My
point here is to show that pouring concrete (or lead or depleted
uranium) into the base isn't the only solution and perhaps not the
best solution if mobility is an issue. The trick is to get the
moments and compliances to where at least two points of contact are
always maintained by gravity (rather than bolts) with acceptable
motion at the work wheel. The compliance can come from rubber feet,
carpeting, flexure in the structure, whatever works. Larger
footprint means less motion at the wheel for given compliance.

Bottom line: bigger footprint works for me.

wrote in news:1128997976.637346.31980
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:


I've tried scrap carpet, rubber matting, etc.

Do you have a favorite method??


A sufficiently sized piece of perforated sheet metal hinged to the base.
Where upon you stand while working with the grinder/buffer, etc. The metal
folds up against the base when you are not using it.

Anthony

On 10 Oct 2005 19:32:56 -0700, wrote:

My buffers, grinders, brushes like to dance on my concrete garage
floor. A few of them have been anchored into the floor. The rest of
them need to be repositioned frequently so I can't anchor them.

What's your favorite method of keeping rotating machinery for dancing
across the floor.

I've tried scrap carpet, rubber matting, etc.

Do you have a favorite method??

Yep...I balance them.

Then the only thing I have moving around is my 8" Logan shaper..if I
crank up the speeds

Ive got at least 3 grinders, and 3 belt sanders..and none of them
wander around. Well..I do have one big assed grinder with a pair of 8"
cheapie wire wheels on it that does tend to move in slow circles..so I
bolted it down to the bench. But one of the shafts is bent by about
..008

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

I've had some trouble with one grinder walking around. After a lot of
experimentation, I finally just pushed it up against the wall so that it
can't turn, stretched a bungie around the pedestal at the base and hooked it
to screw eyes in the wall. Lets me move it when necessary, but keeps it in
place otherwise. You could anchor a wooden strip to the floor and do the
same if you can't put it against the wall.
--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


wrote in message
ups.com...
My buffers, grinders, brushes like to dance on my concrete garage
floor. A few of them have been anchored into the floor. The rest of
them need to be repositioned frequently so I can't anchor them.

What's your favorite method of keeping rotating machinery for dancing
across the floor.

I've tried scrap carpet, rubber matting, etc.

Do you have a favorite method??

Set them in a box of sand.

Gunner wrote:

On 10 Oct 2005 19:32:56 -0700, wrote:

My buffers, grinders, brushes like to dance on my concrete garage
floor. A few of them have been anchored into the floor. The rest of
them need to be repositioned frequently so I can't anchor them.

What's your favorite method of keeping rotating machinery for dancing
across the floor.

I've tried scrap carpet, rubber matting, etc.

Do you have a favorite method??

Yep...I balance them.

Then the only thing I have moving around is my 8" Logan shaper..if I
crank up the speeds

Ive got at least 3 grinders, and 3 belt sanders..and none of them
wander around. Well..I do have one big assed grinder with a pair of 8"
cheapie wire wheels on it that does tend to move in slow circles..so I
bolted it down to the bench. But one of the shafts is bent by about
.008

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

Yea, but doesn't your packed dirt shop floor have a higher coefficient
of friction than smooth concrete?

Pete C.

On 10 Oct 2005 20:18:47 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

They are balanced but the cast iron bases on a concrete floor just
don't provide enough coefficient of friction to make them stay put.

I need an interface material that grips concrete and cast iron.

Weld a stand-on plate to the bottom and put anti-skid matting
under it. Step on the plate to do the work, holding the whole
machine steadier.

The machinery is pretty good quality (ie mostly Baldor) but some of the
pedestals are Harbor Freight crap. (i don't mind buying Baldor buffers
and grinders but their pedestals seem too high priced for what you
get).

My deluxe HF stand has 3 bolt-holes and I could mount it to a piece of
plywood if I were so inclined. That could be anti-skidded, too.


I filled some of the pedestals with concrete to give them more mass. It
helps but there's just not enough friction between cast iron and
concrete when motors are spinning at 3600 rpm.

Yeah, mass always helps dampen vibrations. Add anti-skid shop matting
or some of the thicker shelf liner. (Don't get caught sneaking it out
of the kitchen.)


----------------------------------------------------------------------
* Scattered Showers My Ass! * Insightful Advertising Copy
* --Noah * http://www.diversify.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------

On 10 Oct 2005 20:18:47 -0700, wrote:

They are balanced but the cast iron bases on a concrete floor just
don't provide enough coefficient of friction to make them stay put.

I need an interface material that grips concrete and cast iron.

The machinery is pretty good quality (ie mostly Baldor) but some of the
pedestals are Harbor Freight crap. (i don't mind buying Baldor buffers
and grinders but their pedestals seem too high priced for what you
get).

I filled some of the pedestals with concrete to give them more mass. It
helps but there's just not enough friction between cast iron and
concrete when motors are spinning at 3600 rpm.
One problem I have encountered is that gyroscopic precession causes
the buffer to slowly turn. Even though it's on 3 rubber feet the force
acting on the buffer is pretty strong so the whole thing spins slowly.
A fix for this, and your problem too, is to bolt the grinder pedestal
to a piece of plywood that's as wide as the pedestal base but 2 or 3
times longer. Then you stand on the plywood when you use the grinder.
This prevents twisting motion and lets youput more force against the
wheel.
ERS

McMaster-Carr sells neoprene sheets in a range of hardness from
"squisshy" to very hard. One of the medium soft should work. They
also sell sample packs to try before you invest in large sheets. I've
used these before to design clamps. Good luck.

dennis
in nca

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 12:26:07 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

On 10 Oct 2005 19:32:56 -0700, wrote:

My buffers, grinders, brushes like to dance on my concrete garage
floor. A few of them have been anchored into the floor. The rest of
them need to be repositioned frequently so I can't anchor them.

What's your favorite method of keeping rotating machinery for dancing
across the floor.

I've tried scrap carpet, rubber matting, etc.

Do you have a favorite method??

Yep...I balance them.

Then the only thing I have moving around is my 8" Logan shaper..if I
crank up the speeds

Ive got at least 3 grinders, and 3 belt sanders..and none of them
wander around. Well..I do have one big assed grinder with a pair of 8"
cheapie wire wheels on it that does tend to move in slow circles..so I
bolted it down to the bench. But one of the shafts is bent by about
.008

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

Yea, but doesn't your packed dirt shop floor have a higher coefficient
of friction than smooth concrete?

Pete C.

It would indeed..if the grinders etc were sitting on the dirt, rather
than on bench tops.

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

Gunner wrote:

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 12:26:07 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

On 10 Oct 2005 19:32:56 -0700, wrote:

My buffers, grinders, brushes like to dance on my concrete garage
floor. A few of them have been anchored into the floor. The rest of
them need to be repositioned frequently so I can't anchor them.

What's your favorite method of keeping rotating machinery for dancing
across the floor.

I've tried scrap carpet, rubber matting, etc.

Do you have a favorite method??

Yep...I balance them.

Then the only thing I have moving around is my 8" Logan shaper..if I
crank up the speeds

Ive got at least 3 grinders, and 3 belt sanders..and none of them
wander around. Well..I do have one big assed grinder with a pair of 8"
cheapie wire wheels on it that does tend to move in slow circles..so I
bolted it down to the bench. But one of the shafts is bent by about
.008

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

Yea, but doesn't your packed dirt shop floor have a higher coefficient
of friction than smooth concrete?

Pete C.

It would indeed..if the grinders etc were sitting on the dirt, rather
than on bench tops.

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

Since much of the thread referred to the typical grinder stands and your
post didn't say otherwise except for one grinder I assumed some were on
such stands. My bad.

Pete C.

Are your machines level? We had a washing machine that liked to move
across the floor, which was stopped by levelling it.

Mike

One problem I have encountered is that gyroscopic precession causes
the buffer to slowly turn. Even though it's on 3 rubber feet the force
acting on the buffer is pretty strong so the whole thing spins slowly.

Gyroscopic precession requires that the gyro's rotational axis be
displaced. If the buffer is just sitting there spinning, it's not
precessing. If the shaft is tilted while spinning, and tries to twist
90 degrees to the applied force as it tilts, that's precession.
Most machinery that walks around is suffering some sort of
vibration. The machine may jump vertically, or might have some mode of
alternating its weight between its feet while moving the free foot in
some direction so that it moves around. Balancing should be tried
first, then some soft material used under the feet to maintain floor
contact while allowing a bit of vertical movement. Or bolt it firmly to
the floor.

Dan

One way when bolting it down is to have two metal plates (per bolt or leg spot)
and between them is a sheet of neoprene to absorb movement.

A set like that came with my large standup air tank/compressor.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



carl mciver wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
| My buffers, grinders, brushes like to dance on my concrete garage
| floor. A few of them have been anchored into the floor. The rest of
| them need to be repositioned frequently so I can't anchor them.
|
| What's your favorite method of keeping rotating machinery for dancing
| across the floor.
|
| I've tried scrap carpet, rubber matting, etc.
|
| Do you have a favorite method??

My small grinder I've got mounted on an old truck brake drum for
dampening and then that sits on a piece of carpet which sits on my
workbench.

Adding mass is a good way to suck up a lot of the vibration. I had a
washing machine that had a big chunk of concrete bolted to the floating
part. Very nice. The more mass the better the dampening will be, but it
has to be firmly affixed to the part that generates the motion.


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http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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Don't forget the sheet under the foot and the smaller 'washer' between layers under the
bolt head. Don't want the bolt head to be a hard surface connection and defeat it all.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



william_b_noble wrote:
Grant's approach is good - I've also had good luck making feet by cutting
the tread part of an old tire = you can glue or bolt it to the base and it
will enhance friction
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

wrote:


They are balanced but the cast iron bases on a concrete floor just
don't provide enough coefficient of friction to make them stay put.


snip------

Interpose a sheet of rubber (cut up truck innertube?) between the pedestal
and floor?

GWE




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On 11 Oct 2005 17:23:08 -0700, wrote:

One problem I have encountered is that gyroscopic precession causes
the buffer to slowly turn. Even though it's on 3 rubber feet the force
acting on the buffer is pretty strong so the whole thing spins slowly.

Gyroscopic precession requires that the gyro's rotational axis be
displaced. If the buffer is just sitting there spinning, it's not
precessing. If the shaft is tilted while spinning, and tries to twist
90 degrees to the applied force as it tilts, that's precession.
Most machinery that walks around is suffering some sort of
vibration. The machine may jump vertically, or might have some mode of
alternating its weight between its feet while moving the free foot in
some direction so that it moves around. Balancing should be tried
first, then some soft material used under the feet to maintain floor
contact while allowing a bit of vertical movement. Or bolt it firmly to
the floor.

Dan
Dan,
Help me out here please. A certain gyroscope has a rod concentric to
the axis of the wheel that extends away from the wheel a couple
inches. The end of this rod runs in a bearing and is held captive by a
couple retaining rings. This bearing fits in a housing that pivots on
the end of another rod. This rod is perpendicular to the axis of the
gyroscope wheel. The gyroscope is spun up with the rod end placed in
the bearing and the rod (and hence the gyroscope wheel axis)
horizontal. This pretty much mimics the grinder setup. The grinder is
a motor with a shaft extending out about 4 inches. At the end of the
shaft is a wheel about 8 inches in diameter. The wheel is balanced so
there is little vibration. When the wheel is spinning the motor and
wheel combination turn slowly around the axis of the pedestal. If the
gyroscope is spun up it will also turn slowly around the vertical
axis, won't it? If this isn't precession can you tell me what it is?
If I'm wrong about something I want to know so my error can be
corrected.
Thank You,
Eric R Snow

I took a look in my Mcmaster catalog. There must the hundreds of
different sheet rubber formulations and thickenesses.

Any clue whether to go thick or thin and how soft?

I'm thinking 1/8" soft neoprene but it's just a guess. Any idea how
down to the best sheet rubber for machinery?

On 10 Oct 2005 19:32:56 -0700, wrote:

My buffers, grinders, brushes like to dance on my concrete garage
floor. A few of them have been anchored into the floor. The rest of
them need to be repositioned frequently so I can't anchor them.

What's your favorite method of keeping rotating machinery for dancing
across the floor.

I've tried scrap carpet, rubber matting, etc.

Do you have a favorite method??

In article ,
davefr wrote:

I took a look in my Mcmaster catalog. There must the hundreds of
different sheet rubber formulations and thickenesses.

We used to put "isosorb" or something like that under the vacuum pumps
around the lab. Crossed neoprene grids, you could stack a few layers for
extra absorption, and put a hunk of steel on the top to keep the machine
foot from punching down through. Could also get pre-made foot pads, but
they cost more, and we were always on a tight budget. One figured out
the per-foot loading and put in pads of an appropriate are to get the
loading range suggested by the pad maker.

McMaster has similar, but not the same, material under "Vibration
Damping Pads" (Pg 1224-5)

"Wonder Rib" pads from MSC (pg 1655) seem to be more similar to the ones
I used. I have no idea if they are better or worse than other styles,
simply that those are the style I have used.

There was supposed to be some advantage from the shape in terms of
decoupling the vibration, but I don't know that it was anything more
than sales hype.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:29:35 -0700, davefr wrote:

I took a look in my Mcmaster catalog. There must the hundreds of
different sheet rubber formulations and thickenesses.

Any clue whether to go thick or thin and how soft?

I'm thinking 1/8" soft neoprene but it's just a guess. Any idea how
down to the best sheet rubber for machinery?

On 10 Oct 2005 19:32:56 -0700, wrote:

My buffers, grinders, brushes like to dance on my concrete garage
floor. A few of them have been anchored into the floor. The rest of
them need to be repositioned frequently so I can't anchor them.

What's your favorite method of keeping rotating machinery for dancing
across the floor.

I've tried scrap carpet, rubber matting, etc.

Do you have a favorite method??
At Princess Auto the other day I saw what looked to be clear silicone
gell pads 1/4" thick with 3/4" dia buttons 1/2" thick in about a 4"
square. I bet these would stop the dance but doubt they would support
much weight.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada