Last year at NAMES they told us the next show was going to be at
Bowling Green. Now I hear that its going to be in Toledo OH.

What do you guys think about the changes. Is the new location a
good thing or a bad thing? Why did they move it out of Detroit area?

chuck

On 6 Oct 2005 15:36:21 GMT, (Chuck
Sherwood) wrote:


Last year at NAMES they told us the next show was going to be at
Bowling Green. Now I hear that its going to be in Toledo OH.

What do you guys think about the changes. Is the new location a
good thing or a bad thing? Why did they move it out of Detroit area?

chuck

Hey Chuck,

Your question prompted me to write to one of the directors, asking the
same as you, but for some detail. I'll let you know if he replies,
and what he had to say.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

ps...you were congratulating somebody very recently about a nice
lathe, and mentioned Dick and Dave. Is that Dick Triemstra from
Detroit?

On 6 Oct 2005 15:36:21 GMT, (Chuck
Sherwood) wrote:


Last year at NAMES they told us the next show was going to be at
Bowling Green. Now I hear that its going to be in Toledo OH.

What do you guys think about the changes. Is the new location a
good thing or a bad thing? Why did they move it out of Detroit area?

chuck


Hey Chuck,

Well, we'll see. I got a very short reply from the Prez (I think),
stating that I would receive more information "pretty soon". I'll
forward what I get, when I get it.


By the way, did you answer me about who Dick and Dave are? Maybe if
you did it's further down this latest 122 messages.

Brian

"Brian Lawson" wrote in message
...
On 6 Oct 2005 15:36:21 GMT, (Chuck
Sherwood) wrote:


Last year at NAMES they told us the next show was going to be at
Bowling Green. Now I hear that its going to be in Toledo OH.

What do you guys think about the changes. Is the new location a
good thing or a bad thing? Why did they move it out of Detroit area?

chuck


Hey Chuck,

Well, we'll see. I got a very short reply from the Prez (I think),
stating that I would receive more information "pretty soon". I'll
forward what I get, when I get it.


By the way, did you answer me about who Dick and Dave are? Maybe if
you did it's further down this latest 122 messages.

If the subject was machine tool dealers, Dick would probably be Dick
Triemstra in/near Detroit, MI. Dave might have been Dick's partner.

Mike

Well, we'll see. I got a very short reply from the Prez (I think),
stating that I would receive more information "pretty soon".

This is what I heard through my contacts that I should not name
in a public forum without their consent.

Bowling Green site was a large area adjointed to a shopping center.
This location was used for lots of shows (like gun shows).
The postivies on this was you could walk over to the food court
for lunch and there was plenty of free parking (but you might
have to walk a bit). Apparently the owner got a better offer
and canceled all shows without any notice. Lucky for NAMES,
they have some time to find another place. I guess they didn't
read the fine print about cancelation policy.

I heard that southgate civic center told NAMES the civic center
was still available. NAMES told them they were not interested.
I find this interesting.

Apparently they setting on the Toledo site listed on their web
site. I am curious as to why. The admission price is listed at
8 bucks on the names web site. However I was told it costs 5
bucks a day to park and if you leave and come back, it cost
another 5 bucks. I do not know about food services but I
wonder if food at a convention center will be overpriced.

I was also told that the vendor tables are more expensive
and they have fire marshals walking the floor to make sure
the vendors don't overrun their area. I was also told they
charge for things like the fork lift (35 bucks each up/down)
that was apparently free at southgate civic center. Each
power outlet cost $40 (it was 10 at southgate)

It would be nice to hear from a vendor (are you out there scott)
as to the what the cost difference really is and will it
affect vendor attendance.

chuck

Chuck sez: " It would be nice to hear from a vendor (are you out there
scott)
as to the what the cost difference really is and will it
affect vendor attendance."

Hey, if it's not good enough for Scott Logan, it's not good enough for me.
AFAIC, the attendance of Scott at any such doin's is a great qualifier of
the show's worth.

Bob Swinney

On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:09:29 -0500, "Robert Swinney"
wrote:

Chuck sez: " It would be nice to hear from a vendor (are you out there
scott)
as to the what the cost difference really is and will it
affect vendor attendance."

Hey, if it's not good enough for Scott Logan, it's not good enough for me.
AFAIC, the attendance of Scott at any such doin's is a great qualifier of
the show's worth.

Well, I appreciate the vote of confidence, but perhaps you place too
much faith in my opinion?

Here are some of my thoughts. Call them ramblings, and perhaps other
folks will add further comments. My comments are meant to be
constructive, and if any show organizers read these, either here or as
forwarded messages, please do not take this as anything else.

Communication. I have felt for some time that communication from
organizers of these shows could be better. I have offered in the past
to assist in setting up email lists for
organizers/vendors/volunteers/interested parties, but have never been
taken up on the offer. Several years ago, the NAMES expo moved from
one venue to another in the same vicinity. The web site was not
updated, and I was afraid that visitors might not know about the
change. In that case, the move was only a couple of miles, so I
suppose a note taped to the door would have been sufficient, if
perhaps a bit unprofessional.

In addition, I can't remember the last time we saw anything posted to
this group in the way of "official" comments from organizers of any of
the shows. I have posted notices fairly regularly, but I am NOT one
of the organizers of any of the shows. Just a vendor, who wants to
insure the biggest possible turnout, as it would correlate to bigger
profits for me. Yeah, that's right, I'm a stinking capitalist.

Arena. The Southgate Civic Center was a bit nicer than Yack Arena,
but I and others had some complaints. Probably the biggest was the
ice. For those who have not been there, the show was held in a pair
of ice skating arenas. One was always melted, but the other was
always still frozen, and covered by floor boards. This helped a bit,
but the hall was still cold. Strangely, last April, the side without
ice was actually colder, due to the weather outside and lack of
effective heating. By the time I left Sunday evening, I was feeling
miserable, and so was Abi.

From what I am seeing, the new venue in Toledo would seem much like
the venue in Visalia CA. This is a convention center, with *TWO*
attached hotels. I thought that was a wonderful benefit in CA, since
I did not have to have a car for anything during the weekend if I did
not want. In fact, last year at Visalia, I did not use my car at all
after arriving Thursday evening, until it was time to pack up Sunday
evening. Even that was just driving from one end of the lot to the
other, loading, then moving back, until we left the next morning. We
were even able to walk to dinner, and some really nice places, within
a mile or less.

Regarding those two hotels, I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has
personal experience. I was leaning towards staying at the Hotel
Seagate, but saw some reviews that scared the cr@p out of me. The
other hotel is the Radisson, which happens to be the same chain as at
the Visalia show.

Yes, it is going to more expensive for me, as a vendor. For the same
arrangement as I had last year, it will probably cost 30-50% more than
before, and that is NOT including the extra cost of gas these days. As
noted, the cost for an electric outlet is 4 times as high, and it
specifically says for ONE outlet. Also, this is the first show I've
been to where we will have to pay for parking. Probably
understandable, since it is in the "City Center", but basically, it
means that a "couple" is paying $10.50 each for admission. A single
person is paying $13.00, nearly twice what it cost in the past.

OTOH, this may be the only show left that I can afford to attend,
based mostly on time spent away from the office. It has been
heartening to hear from folks who attended the January and August
shows who said they missed seeing me there. Thank you.

I don't know anything about the plans for Bowling Green, but I was a
little reticent about holding the show in a shopping center. My
understanding was that the location was built to be an "Anchor Store"
in a large shopping center, but no one moved in. After trying to fill
it, the center's owners/managers decided to make it into a convention
hall.

Will I attend NAMES 2006? Probably. Part of my decision rests on the
response, if any, I get from the vendor contact, whom I emailed a week
ago with some questions. The fact that I have not heard anything in a
week is not encouraging.

Part of my decision also is based on the availability of Abi. Some of
you remember her from a lot of years ago. Believe it or not, she is
now a Senior in High School, and her time is far more filled now than
before. Also, the following weekend in Prom, so she may be busy
getting her makeup/hair/dress ready even that weekend before.

Finally, part of the decision will be based on comments here and
elsewhere from potential attendees.

So, let's hear it! Speak up.


--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Scott Logan - ssl "at" lathe.com |
| Logan Actuator Co. http://www.lathe.com |
| Harvard, IL |
|++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|
| Parts and Accessories for Logan Lathes and |
| Montgomery Wards Lathes |
| Logan-Lilly Mine Hoist Safety Controllers |
+--------------------------------------------+
"Measure Twice, Cut Once"

RCM FAQ - http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal
Metal Web News - http://www.metalwebnews.com/
Help squash SPAM: http://www.cauce.org/

Scott S. Logan wrote in
:


So, let's hear it! Speak up.



Things are not looking good for my attendance this year. While I admit to
being somewhat spoiled by having it 10 miles from home all these years,
Toledo is a bit past my auto-club towing limit. While there is still
plenty of time for that position to change I dont see it happening.

As to why it moved, I dont know for sure. I seem to recall a couple of
the NAMES members were from the Ohio area already, maybe it was just
their turn. The only way I knew it moved was overhearing conversations at
the show, and coming home to read the former webmasters comments on the
move just before he quit. It seems like there is some friction in the
organization.

As to how the attendance will pan out, its anybodys guess. It could
potentially draw more folks from Cleveland and Cincinatti areas to make
up for those lost from the Detroit area. I would assume much of that
would depend on how well they got the word out, and they dont seem to be
doing a good job of that so far.

Scott, I once introduced myself to you at NAMES as a lurker here, but I
guess that isnt entirely true anymore.

Jeff

Scott S. Logan wrote:
On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:09:29 -0500, "Robert Swinney"
wrote:


Chuck sez: " It would be nice to hear from a vendor (are you out there
scott)

as to the what the cost difference really is and will it
affect vendor attendance."

Hey, if it's not good enough for Scott Logan, it's not good enough for me.
AFAIC, the attendance of Scott at any such doin's is a great qualifier of
the show's worth.


Well, I appreciate the vote of confidence, but perhaps you place too
much faith in my opinion?

Here are some of my thoughts. Call them ramblings, and perhaps other
folks will add further comments. My comments are meant to be
constructive, and if any show organizers read these, either here or as
forwarded messages, please do not take this as anything else.

Communication. I have felt for some time that communication from
organizers of these shows could be better. I have offered in the past
to assist in setting up email lists for
organizers/vendors/volunteers/interested parties, but have never been
taken up on the offer. Several years ago, the NAMES expo moved from
one venue to another in the same vicinity. The web site was not
updated, and I was afraid that visitors might not know about the
change. In that case, the move was only a couple of miles, so I
suppose a note taped to the door would have been sufficient, if
perhaps a bit unprofessional.

In addition, I can't remember the last time we saw anything posted to
this group in the way of "official" comments from organizers of any of
the shows. I have posted notices fairly regularly, but I am NOT one
of the organizers of any of the shows. Just a vendor, who wants to
insure the biggest possible turnout, as it would correlate to bigger
profits for me. Yeah, that's right, I'm a stinking capitalist.

Arena. The Southgate Civic Center was a bit nicer than Yack Arena,
but I and others had some complaints. Probably the biggest was the
ice. For those who have not been there, the show was held in a pair
of ice skating arenas. One was always melted, but the other was
always still frozen, and covered by floor boards. This helped a bit,
but the hall was still cold. Strangely, last April, the side without
ice was actually colder, due to the weather outside and lack of
effective heating. By the time I left Sunday evening, I was feeling
miserable, and so was Abi.

From what I am seeing, the new venue in Toledo would seem much like
the venue in Visalia CA. This is a convention center, with *TWO*
attached hotels. I thought that was a wonderful benefit in CA, since
I did not have to have a car for anything during the weekend if I did
not want. In fact, last year at Visalia, I did not use my car at all
after arriving Thursday evening, until it was time to pack up Sunday
evening. Even that was just driving from one end of the lot to the
other, loading, then moving back, until we left the next morning. We
were even able to walk to dinner, and some really nice places, within
a mile or less.

Regarding those two hotels, I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has
personal experience. I was leaning towards staying at the Hotel
Seagate, but saw some reviews that scared the cr@p out of me. The
other hotel is the Radisson, which happens to be the same chain as at
the Visalia show.

I was at the Radisson in Apr. for the model airplane show. It's an old
hotel the room was livable and clean but well used. You can get a motel
for much less if you want to drive about 10 miles across town. The
Seagate is about 10-12 dollars less.




Yes, it is going to more expensive for me, as a vendor. For the same
arrangement as I had last year, it will probably cost 30-50% more than
before, and that is NOT including the extra cost of gas these days. As
noted, the cost for an electric outlet is 4 times as high, and it
specifically says for ONE outlet. Also, this is the first show I've
been to where we will have to pay for parking. Probably
understandable, since it is in the "City Center", but basically, it
means that a "couple" is paying $10.50 each for admission. A single
person is paying $13.00, nearly twice what it cost in the past.

OTOH, this may be the only show left that I can afford to attend,
based mostly on time spent away from the office. It has been
heartening to hear from folks who attended the January and August
shows who said they missed seeing me there. Thank you.

I don't know anything about the plans for Bowling Green, but I was a
little reticent about holding the show in a shopping center. My
understanding was that the location was built to be an "Anchor Store"
in a large shopping center, but no one moved in. After trying to fill
it, the center's owners/managers decided to make it into a convention
hall.

Will I attend NAMES 2006? Probably. Part of my decision rests on the
response, if any, I get from the vendor contact, whom I emailed a week
ago with some questions. The fact that I have not heard anything in a
week is not encouraging.

Part of my decision also is based on the availability of Abi. Some of
you remember her from a lot of years ago. Believe it or not, she is
now a Senior in High School, and her time is far more filled now than
before. Also, the following weekend in Prom, so she may be busy
getting her makeup/hair/dress ready even that weekend before.

Finally, part of the decision will be based on comments here and
elsewhere from potential attendees.

So, let's hear it! Speak up.

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 15:38:05 GMT, Scott S. Logan
wrote:

snip
So, let's hear it! Speak up.

Southfield was 2 hours south, so it was a day trip. Toledo is 3+
hours, so it's a really long day trip, or more reasonably, an
overnighter. I don't know. I've made every NAMES since I moved to
Michigan, but only one Toledo model show. Still, it's a little closer
than Bowling Green.

One advantage of an overnighter is I could attend longer. I usually
scoot around both floors and am gone in 3-4 hours.

Pete Keillor

On 6 Oct 2005 15:36:21 GMT, (Chuck
Sherwood) wrote:


Last year at NAMES they told us the next show was going to be at
Bowling Green. Now I hear that its going to be in Toledo OH.

What do you guys think about the changes. Is the new location a
good thing or a bad thing? Why did they move it out of Detroit area?

chuck
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hey Chuck, et al,

Here is what Clarence Myers, one of the originals and a well respected
Director of NAMES, replied to me, so I'm posting it. His email
address is at the bottom, but I think anything that you aske him
should post here too, for all of us to see and comment about/on.

Brian.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Brian

Yes please use "facts" I sent . Please keep sending any questions you
find to us. You may invite anybody who has comments to contact us
directly, and we will answer

Talked to vendor persons and they have been out of town, and will
return first of the week to respond to any questions.

Thanks again Brian

Clarence

Brian

Yes please use "facts" I sent . Please keep sending any questions you
find to us. You may invite anybody who has comments to contact us
directly, and we will answer

Talked to vendor persons and they have been out of town, and will
return first of the week to respond to any questions.

Thanks again Brian

Clarence

Last year at NAMES they told us the next show was going to be at
Bowling Green. Now I hear that its going to be in Toledo OH.

What do you guys think about the changes. Is the new location a
good thing or a bad thing? Why did they move it out of Detroit area?

chuck

From my house in eastern CT to the Red Roof Inn in Maumee is 12.5
hours, 720 miles.

I know this because that is where I stop on my way to Oshkosh.

A bit more or less will not effect my decision to go or not.

I did like the facillity last year in Southgate, I found it easy to
load and unload and just a bit on the chilly side. I was in the same
arena as Scott Logan. One thing I didn't care for was the fact that I
was not early enough (my bad) for one of the seminars and the much too
small room was already jammed when I got there.



Errol Groff

Grant... I am curious about why you didn't like GEARS... could you
elaborate?

Mark


"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I'm sorry to hear of the trials and tribulations of the various
metalworking
shows. PRIME went under, and it's replacement, GEARS, will soon follow, at
any
rate none of the guys I used to know that used to go to the old PRIME will
waste
a dime going to GEARS again. Visalia is a crapshoot, and to hear that even
the
big shows back east like NAMES are struggling is disappointing.

I'm in no position to go to any of these except maybe Visalia someday
(because I
have a free place to stay a short ways south). Maybe someday.

Nice to see Scott Logan posting on this subject. Scott, that Aridifier you
sold
me went into a shopmade air dryer I cobbled together, see:
http://www.tinyisland.com/Air%20Dryer/index.html

Shortly after I got that built, I found a refrigerated air dryer I
couldn't pass
up, so I sold the one I made. Still like that Logan Aridifier, though.

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

Yes please use "facts" I sent . Please keep sending any questions you
Clarence

I'm still waiting to hear his "facts"...
Sounds like he is a bit sensitive about this to me...

On 15 Oct 2005 16:17:31 GMT, (Chuck
Sherwood) wrote:


Yes please use "facts" I sent . Please keep sending any questions you
Clarence

I'm still waiting to hear his "facts"...
Sounds like he is a bit sensitive about this to me...
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Hey Chuck,

Geez, I'm VERY sorry. Clarence replied immediately to me back on
October 8/05, and the reply/answer from Clarence was SUPPOSED to be
included in what I wrote to this thread on October 9/05. I just
screwed up!! Sorry about that!!

Clarence wrote:
================================================== =======

We (NAMES) were going to Bowling Green, but the hall owner found a
better paying tenant. So we ran like fury and found the hall at
downtown Toledo. This hall is real nice as you know with power,
phones, and air in the floor on 30 foot centers. No more
overheads.There is parking without going up and down hills, but it
costs $5 per day.

The news letter was a sad story, nobody wanted to take on the job. It
is very hard to find good articles for the letter. Maybe some day we
can start it up again.

================================================== =======

The "overheads" Clarence refers to are not the monetary costs, but
rather the method of providing the air lines and electricity to the
exhibitors and vendors tables and areas. They had to be "strung up"
above everything and not laid on the floor. It was possibly the
single most labour intensive and physically dangerous part of set-up
at either of the arenas. I assume there will still be the piping used
as air manifolds on the table tops, which is sometimes frustrating to
get it set up right, but still relatively easy as it's a "many hands
make light work" classic.

And I have to disagree with you about the part that Clarence is
"sensitive" about the issue. I think from the rest of the email
dialogue we had, that is not the case. Unhappy??Yes!! but there is
just no way to disseminate the information easily, and no doubt they
were not pleased at all to have to go through this. For instance, I
believe that the "poster/flyers" for 2006 were already done and handed
out at the 2005 show, and so will have to be re-distributed as either
reprinted, or at least "patched over", and at significant cost to the
"bottom line $", and lost time to the Directors.

And then, I should also have included the "next" email from Clarence
too:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
==================================================
Brian

Thanks for the input.

The $35 fee is to unload a semi truck only. Cars and pickups etc. are
free.

The comment that the Southgate civic center said we could come back is
not true, as we never asked if we could. The main reason for the move
was the yearly uncertainty about the covering for the ice. We were
never sure that the cover would be available until just before the
show. If it would not be available, we would have to go buy enough
plywood to cover the ice, and find a way to store the wet plywood
until next year. Now you have heard the rest of the story.

Clarence Myers.
================================================== ==
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++

And reference to the $35 above...the only semi's to require
"unloading" that I am aware of in the past years, are the Prazi
lathe/mill/CNC skids of stuff that John Szot sends via UPS or FedEX
from California, and the skids of catalogues handed out by Travers
Tools. No doubt there are others, but those are the only two that I
distinctly recall.

Once again, SORRY I left everybody hanging. Wasn't intentional, and
the delay is in part because I've been away for a few days (watching
the fall tree colours a bit north of here).

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 09:18:42 -0400, Brian Lawson
wrote:

On 15 Oct 2005 16:17:31 GMT, (Chuck
Sherwood) wrote:
big snip
Once again, SORRY I left everybody hanging. Wasn't intentional, and
the delay is in part because I've been away for a few days (watching
the fall tree colours a bit north of here).

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

No problem, and thanks for the info. You know, I knew it was a
skating rink, but never noticed or thought about the ice. On the
other hand, I was never there more than 4-5 hours, and wasn't manning
a booth like Scott and others.

Pete Keillor

Clarence wrote:
================================================= ========

We (NAMES) were going to Bowling Green, but the hall owner found a
better paying tenant. So we ran like fury and found the hall at
downtown Toledo. This hall is real nice as you know with power,
phones, and air in the floor on 30 foot centers. No more
overheads.There is parking without going up and down hills, but it
costs $5 per day.


Sounds like it might be a nice location. Only one way to find out.
Attend the next show.
chuck