Hello,

I'm the happy(?) owner of an apartment complex. A few years ago, we
put in security fencing and power gates. We also have a small gate for
pedestrians.

My tenants are pretty rough on the physical plant, and the
pedestrian gate has been no exception. They have repeatedly broke the
lock ( a Titan by Kwikset ). The steel box in the gate that the lock
lives in has also been somwhat munged. I decided I'd had enough.

I bought an ANSI grade 1 Schlage lock - the kind you might find on a
courthouse or a public school. Made to take it. The new lock requires
a thicker box, and has requirements for support of the latch inside the
box.

So I went down to the steel store bought a plate of 1 3/4" thick
mild steel, big enough to mount the lock with. I drilled this chunk of
steel for the lock - took me almost a week. Went through four hole
saws, burned out a cheap chinese angle grinder, almost fried my drill
press. Had to make a special jig to hold the sucker before I could
inset the latch plate with my Sherline mill.

Then I realized that the thing was WAY too heavy - it would act as
a hammerhead on the end of the gate, and bash the post to death. So I
swiss-cheesed it out with lightening holes. Got it down to 4 1/2
pounds.

Now I need to go out to the complex, cut the existing box in the
gate and weld in my block.

Whups, don't have a welder. Well, I do have an oxyacetalene torch,
but it's surely not big enough to weld in that block!

I was thinking of sourcing a small but quality MIG welder - say one
of the small Hobarts or Lincolns. Probably such would not be enough
to weld the block directly - but what if I preheat it with a propane
torch? I could probably preheat it to 400degrees or so, no problem.
Would a MIG welder that is essentially too small, work if used that
way?

I ask because I really do not plan to do a whole lot in "big iron",
and would rather not buy a monster machine just for this one job.
Thanks in advance,

- Jerry Kaidor ( )

You go to a lot of lengths to avoid paying a guy with a welder a few bucks!

GWE

wrote:

Hello,

I'm the happy(?) owner of an apartment complex. A few years ago, we
put in security fencing and power gates. We also have a small gate for
pedestrians.

My tenants are pretty rough on the physical plant, and the
pedestrian gate has been no exception. They have repeatedly broke the
lock ( a Titan by Kwikset ). The steel box in the gate that the lock
lives in has also been somwhat munged. I decided I'd had enough.

I bought an ANSI grade 1 Schlage lock - the kind you might find on a
courthouse or a public school. Made to take it. The new lock requires
a thicker box, and has requirements for support of the latch inside the
box.

So I went down to the steel store bought a plate of 1 3/4" thick
mild steel, big enough to mount the lock with. I drilled this chunk of
steel for the lock - took me almost a week. Went through four hole
saws, burned out a cheap chinese angle grinder, almost fried my drill
press. Had to make a special jig to hold the sucker before I could
inset the latch plate with my Sherline mill.

Then I realized that the thing was WAY too heavy - it would act as
a hammerhead on the end of the gate, and bash the post to death. So I
swiss-cheesed it out with lightening holes. Got it down to 4 1/2
pounds.

Now I need to go out to the complex, cut the existing box in the
gate and weld in my block.

Whups, don't have a welder. Well, I do have an oxyacetalene torch,
but it's surely not big enough to weld in that block!

I was thinking of sourcing a small but quality MIG welder - say one
of the small Hobarts or Lincolns. Probably such would not be enough
to weld the block directly - but what if I preheat it with a propane
torch? I could probably preheat it to 400degrees or so, no problem.
Would a MIG welder that is essentially too small, work if used that
way?

I ask because I really do not plan to do a whole lot in "big iron",
and would rather not buy a monster machine just for this one job.
Thanks in advance,

- Jerry Kaidor ( )

What kind of power is available?

Actually of you look on sci.engr.joining.welding via google groups, you
should be able to find people that say you can weld it with a small
mig. It will just take lots of passes.

Best look or ask there for the information. I forget if they said use
flux core and/ or preheat.

Dan

Dan

wrote:
Hello,

I'm the happy(?) owner of an apartment complex. A few years ago, we
put in security fencing and power gates. We also have a small gate for
pedestrians.

My tenants are pretty rough on the physical plant, and the
pedestrian gate has been no exception. They have repeatedly broke the
lock ( a Titan by Kwikset ). The steel box in the gate that the lock
lives in has also been somwhat munged. I decided I'd had enough.

I bought an ANSI grade 1 Schlage lock - the kind you might find on a
courthouse or a public school. Made to take it. The new lock requires
a thicker box, and has requirements for support of the latch inside the
box.

So I went down to the steel store bought a plate of 1 3/4" thick
mild steel, big enough to mount the lock with. I drilled this chunk of
steel for the lock - took me almost a week. Went through four hole
saws, burned out a cheap chinese angle grinder, almost fried my drill
press. Had to make a special jig to hold the sucker before I could
inset the latch plate with my Sherline mill.

Then I realized that the thing was WAY too heavy - it would act as
a hammerhead on the end of the gate, and bash the post to death. So I
swiss-cheesed it out with lightening holes. Got it down to 4 1/2
pounds.

Now I need to go out to the complex, cut the existing box in the
gate and weld in my block.

Whups, don't have a welder. Well, I do have an oxyacetalene torch,
but it's surely not big enough to weld in that block!

Have you considered thermite welding? (:

I think you will find that a used stick welder in the 280 to 300 amp range
costs less than a new MIG, even a taiwan cheapie one, and a plain old stick
welder will do the job you need done, correctly, the first time. Unless you
have enough current, the weld won't penetrate the metal and it won't be very
strong.

snip-----------------


I was thinking of sourcing a small but quality MIG welder - say one
of the small Hobarts or Lincolns. Probably such would not be enough
to weld the block directly - but what if I preheat it with a propane
torch? I could probably preheat it to 400degrees or so, no problem.
Would a MIG welder that is essentially too small, work if used that
way?

I ask because I really do not plan to do a whole lot in "big iron",
and would rather not buy a monster machine just for this one job.
Thanks in advance,

- Jerry Kaidor ( )

wrote:
Hello,

I'm the happy(?) owner of an apartment complex. A few years ago, we
put in security fencing and power gates. We also have a small gate for
pedestrians.

My tenants are pretty rough on the physical plant, and the
pedestrian gate has been no exception. They have repeatedly broke the
lock ( a Titan by Kwikset ). The steel box in the gate that the lock
lives in has also been somwhat munged. I decided I'd had enough.

I bought an ANSI grade 1 Schlage lock - the kind you might find on a
courthouse or a public school. Made to take it. The new lock requires
a thicker box, and has requirements for support of the latch inside the
box.

So I went down to the steel store bought a plate of 1 3/4" thick
mild steel, big enough to mount the lock with. I drilled this chunk of
steel for the lock - took me almost a week. Went through four hole
saws, burned out a cheap chinese angle grinder, almost fried my drill
press. Had to make a special jig to hold the sucker before I could
inset the latch plate with my Sherline mill.

Then I realized that the thing was WAY too heavy - it would act as
a hammerhead on the end of the gate, and bash the post to death. So I
swiss-cheesed it out with lightening holes. Got it down to 4 1/2
pounds.

Now I need to go out to the complex, cut the existing box in the
gate and weld in my block.

Whups, don't have a welder. Well, I do have an oxyacetalene torch,
but it's surely not big enough to weld in that block!

I was thinking of sourcing a small but quality MIG welder - say one
of the small Hobarts or Lincolns. Probably such would not be enough
to weld the block directly - but what if I preheat it with a propane
torch? I could probably preheat it to 400degrees or so, no problem.
Would a MIG welder that is essentially too small, work if used that
way?

I ask because I really do not plan to do a whole lot in "big iron",
and would rather not buy a monster machine just for this one job.
Thanks in advance,

- Jerry Kaidor ( )


Instead of going through all of this, have you considered getting
yourself a better piece of property in a better neighborhood, with
better tenants?

Where you have no need for security fencing and power gates?

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Hi,

I am a locksmith.

Here are some things to consider. First off you may not have to replace the
box. If you have a 2 3/4" backset you are in business. The grade 1 Schlage
will adjust down to 1 3/8 thickness.

If you do need to replace the box, buy one prefabbed. They are cheap.

You should get good longevity out of your gate hardware if several things
are done. First off your gate should be solidly constructed so you don't
have a lot of flex and alignment problems. Next, consider a good quality
hydraulic door closer as a requirement over a spring hinge. This will
prevent slamming, but have enough oomph to reliably shut the door.

You are going to need to routinely service what ever kind of lock you
install. This means periodic lubrication and making sure the lock does not
get loose.

As far as supporting the latch, the easy way is to buy a plastic piece that
fits inside the hollow part of the box, or just have the welder tack in a
few rods to keep the latch in place.

If you have not buggered up the new lock, consider something. This is on a
gate. ADA compliance should not be a big deal and you can still buy the
same grade key in the knob lock rather than a lever handle set. These are
preferable for several reasons. First, the lever is an inviting target for
vandals to try and force. Secondly the lever will tend to droop over time.
this is because the weight is unbalanced. This eventually causes problems.

You local locksmith may very well have a bunch of really good used grade 1
locks in his used pile that may give you better service than that expensive
one you just got. Often these were removed to comply with the ADA laws
requiring levers for reasonable access. This should not be an issue on a
fence gate.


--

__
Roger Shoaf

Important factors in selecting a mate:
1] Depth of gene pool
2] Position on the food chain.



wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello,

I'm the happy(?) owner of an apartment complex. A few years ago, we
put in security fencing and power gates. We also have a small gate for
pedestrians.

My tenants are pretty rough on the physical plant, and the
pedestrian gate has been no exception. They have repeatedly broke the
lock ( a Titan by Kwikset ). The steel box in the gate that the lock
lives in has also been somwhat munged. I decided I'd had enough.

I bought an ANSI grade 1 Schlage lock - the kind you might find on a
courthouse or a public school. Made to take it. The new lock requires
a thicker box, and has requirements for support of the latch inside the
box.

So I went down to the steel store bought a plate of 1 3/4" thick
mild steel, big enough to mount the lock with. I drilled this chunk of
steel for the lock - took me almost a week. Went through four hole
saws, burned out a cheap chinese angle grinder, almost fried my drill
press. Had to make a special jig to hold the sucker before I could
inset the latch plate with my Sherline mill.

Then I realized that the thing was WAY too heavy - it would act as
a hammerhead on the end of the gate, and bash the post to death. So I
swiss-cheesed it out with lightening holes. Got it down to 4 1/2
pounds.

Now I need to go out to the complex, cut the existing box in the
gate and weld in my block.

Whups, don't have a welder. Well, I do have an oxyacetalene torch,
but it's surely not big enough to weld in that block!

I was thinking of sourcing a small but quality MIG welder - say one
of the small Hobarts or Lincolns. Probably such would not be enough
to weld the block directly - but what if I preheat it with a propane
torch? I could probably preheat it to 400degrees or so, no problem.
Would a MIG welder that is essentially too small, work if used that
way?

I ask because I really do not plan to do a whole lot in "big iron",
and would rather not buy a monster machine just for this one job.
Thanks in advance,

- Jerry Kaidor ( )

The few bucks are not an issue. The issue is scheduling - can I get
the guy with the welder, myself, and the properly prepared gate all
together at the same time? Will the work be done as I wish? I want to
bolt or magnet the lock block to the gatepost with a 1/16" spacer,
swing the gate ( with the cutout ) over it,and then weld.

In my experience, good people who do good work are in high demand,
and cannot be scheduled at will. People who do crappy work are easy to
get.

I am 180 miles away from my complex, and remote scheduling is an
issue.

I have a very good steel fabrication guy - who put up the fence in
the first place - and he is so busy that he can't even find time to
invoice the last three jobs he did for me!

- Jerry Kaidor ( )

110VAC at the end of a 200-foot run from the main box.

OTOH, I'd be perfectly willing to go rent a portable 220V generator.
Why not rent the welder? Because it'll take a week or so of playing
with it to learn how to use it, that's why!

And - I admit it - the whole thing is partly an excuse to buy a new
tool .

- Jerry

110VAC at the end of a 200-foot run from the main box.

OTOH, I'd be perfectly willing to go rent a portable 220V generator.
Why not rent the welder? Because it'll take a week or so of playing
with it to learn how to use it, that's why!

And - I admit it - the whole thing is partly an excuse to buy a new
tool .

- Jerry

Hi,


I am a locksmith.


Here are some things to consider. First off you may not have to
replace the
box. If you have a 2 3/4" backset you are in business. The grade 1
Schlage
will adjust down to 1 3/8 thickness.

*** The original box was pretty buggered, else I would have done just
that.

If you do need to replace the box, buy one prefabbed. They are cheap.

*** This I did not know. But now I spent a week fabbing my lock block,
and have a certain sentimental attachment to it .


You should get good longevity out of your gate hardware if several
things
are done. First off your gate should be solidly constructed so
*** It's extremely solid. It even has an overhead arch that connects
the two gateposts into a solid structure.

.. Next, consider a good quality
hydraulic door closer as a requirement over a spring hinge.

*** Am definitely considering this. Can you recommend a model? I did
have a "KantSlam" on the gate, but they broke it.

If you have not buggered up the new lock, consider something. This is
on a
gate. ADA compliance should not be a big deal

*** I think it is. This is the front gate to the complex. I'm told
that lawyers these days are wandering around looking for
ADA-noncompliance - even suing landlords who may or may not be
compliant. Having a noncompliant lock in front facing the street is
just asking for it, IMHO. The ADA is apparently one of those laws
that allow lawyers to do "drive-by" lawsuits and sue you on behalf of
somebody who has not even been harmed in any way by your (alleged) lack
of compliance.

First, the lever is an inviting target for vandals to try and force.


*** The lock is supposed to have a feature ("Vandlgard" )where if
somebody forces it, the handle just pops loose - some sort of pin
clutch - and my maintenance guy just pops it back in place.

Secondly the lever will tend to droop over time.
this is because the weight is unbalanced. This eventually causes
problems.

I'll take mechanical problems over an ADA lawsuit any day.

- Jerry Kaidor ( )

Abrasha wrote:
Instead of going through all of this, have you considered getting
yourself a better piece of property in a better neighborhood, with
better tenants?

Where you have no need for security fencing and power gates?

*** Indeed. I search constantly. Unfortunately, rental property in
California ( I see you're in SF )
is consistantly priced at the "breakeven" or "zero cash flow" point.
As painful as ownership of my complex is at times, it's a living. For
two years I have been looking, and have been unable to find anything
that even comes close.

Also - the activity is not devoid of fun. When I bought it, it was
in very sad shape. Over the past few years, we have been restoring it
- making a better life for our tenants. It brings the pleasure of
creating something from nothing - or at least from very little - kind
of like restoring an old car. It also brings the satisfaction of doing
a good deed.

- Jerry Kaidor ( )

On 28 Sep 2005 15:25:54 -0700, " wrote:

Hello,

I'm the happy(?) owner of an apartment complex. A few years ago, we
put in security fencing and power gates. We also have a small gate for
pedestrians.

My tenants are pretty rough on the physical plant, and the
pedestrian gate has been no exception. They have repeatedly broke the
lock ( a Titan by Kwikset ). The steel box in the gate that the lock
lives in has also been somwhat munged. I decided I'd had enough.

I bought an ANSI grade 1 Schlage lock - the kind you might find on a
courthouse or a public school. Made to take it. The new lock requires
a thicker box, and has requirements for support of the latch inside the
box.

So I went down to the steel store bought a plate of 1 3/4" thick
mild steel, big enough to mount the lock with. I drilled this chunk of
steel for the lock - took me almost a week. Went through four hole
saws, burned out a cheap chinese angle grinder, almost fried my drill
press. Had to make a special jig to hold the sucker before I could
inset the latch plate with my Sherline mill.

Then I realized that the thing was WAY too heavy - it would act as
a hammerhead on the end of the gate, and bash the post to death. So I
swiss-cheesed it out with lightening holes. Got it down to 4 1/2
pounds.

Now I need to go out to the complex, cut the existing box in the
gate and weld in my block.

Whups, don't have a welder. Well, I do have an oxyacetalene torch,
but it's surely not big enough to weld in that block!

I was thinking of sourcing a small but quality MIG welder - say one
of the small Hobarts or Lincolns. Probably such would not be enough
to weld the block directly - but what if I preheat it with a propane
torch? I could probably preheat it to 400degrees or so, no problem.
Would a MIG welder that is essentially too small, work if used that
way?

Small MIGs are really only suitable for metal 3/16" thick or less. It
would be very easy to get a "pretty" weld with zero strength on thick
metal like that. If you have someone TIG-weld 3/16" tabs on your
block, you could probably weld the tabs to your gate with a small MIG
and fluxcore wire. Or, drill and tap the block, bolt it to the
gate and weld or braze the bolts so they can't be removed.

wrote:
Abrasha wrote:

Instead of going through all of this, have you considered getting
yourself a better piece of property in a better neighborhood, with
better tenants?


Where you have no need for security fencing and power gates?


*** Indeed. I search constantly. Unfortunately, rental property in
California ( I see you're in SF )
is consistantly priced at the "breakeven" or "zero cash flow" point.

Breaking even isn't bad, especially in San Francisco. And if you do,
you win in the end in capital gains when you sell. Providing an
earthquake doesn't take it all down.

You can even find properties with positive cash flow, you just have to
be patient.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

wrote in message
oups.com...
. Next, consider a good quality
hydraulic door closer as a requirement over a spring hinge.

*** Am definitely considering this. Can you recommend a model? I did
have a "KantSlam" on the gate, but they broke it.

Sure look for a Norton or an LCN. Your local locksmith should be able to
set you up here.

Good luck.

--

__
Roger Shoaf

Important factors in selecting a mate:
1] Depth of gene pool
2] Position on the food chain.

wrote:
110VAC at the end of a 200-foot run from the main box.

OTOH, I'd be perfectly willing to go rent a portable 220V generator.
Why not rent the welder? Because it'll take a week or so of playing
with it to learn how to use it, that's why!

And - I admit it - the whole thing is partly an excuse to buy a new
tool .
Of COURSE! You think you had to EXPLAIN this part to THIS GROUP?
What with Ignoramus dragging home anything that isn't bolted down,
and then asking the group how to hook it up? (And, the rest of us
being Ignoramus wanna-bes or recovering from that syndrome?)

Jon

Jon Elson wrote:
wrote:
110VAC at the end of a 200-foot run from the main box.

OTOH, I'd be perfectly willing to go rent a portable 220V
generator. Why not rent the welder? Because it'll take a week or
so of playing with it to learn how to use it, that's why!

And - I admit it - the whole thing is partly an excuse to buy a
new tool .
Of COURSE! You think you had to EXPLAIN this part to THIS GROUP?
What with Ignoramus dragging home anything that isn't bolted down,
and then asking the group how to hook it up? (And, the rest of us
being Ignoramus wanna-bes or recovering from that syndrome?)

Jon

Zeez - warn a guy eh?
Says me cleaming the coffee off my monitor!

Ken.