On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:37:59 GMT, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

OTOH, what end is served by adding to the insanity?

With Stewie?
You must be joking GG.
--
Cliff

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:09:54 -0400, Kirk Gordon
wrote:

The only way I know of to lower the boiling point is to reduce
pressure. At high altitudes, water boils at significantly lower than
212 degrees F. That's one of the reasons why the coffee you get on an
airplane usually sucks. The cabin's pressurized; but not to a full
atmosphere, and the water for the coffee won't get hot enough to make a
good cup.

Then they should probably use instant.
Probably cheaper too.
--
Cliff

Cliff wrote:
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:09:54 -0400, Kirk Gordon
wrote:

The only way I know of to lower the boiling point is to reduce
pressure. At high altitudes, water boils at significantly lower than
212 degrees F. That's one of the reasons why the coffee you get on an
airplane usually sucks. The cabin's pressurized; but not to a full
atmosphere, and the water for the coffee won't get hot enough to make a
good cup.

Then they should probably use instant.
Probably cheaper too.


Or they could just use more coffee.

There is no accounting for taste, hence no reason to suppose
that a consensus could exist as to what constitutes a good
cup of coffee. That in turn makes it clear that such things
as an ANSI standard for brewing coffee are absurd.

However, it is clear that brewing at a lower temperature reduces
reduces extraction of the bitter acids and also reduces evaporative
loss of the aromatics that give coffee its characteristic aroma.
How important that is to the taste of the coffee depends largely
upon the extent to which the drinker regards the bitter acids
as being essential to the flavor. Some people like their coffee
and their women dark, hot, and bitter.

Thus there is a school of thought that brewing at a lower temperature
produces a better flavor though the strength of the beverage is
reduced unless one uses more coffee.

People who ascribe to this philosophy claim that the best coffee
is made by cold solvent extraction, steeping the grounds for a very
long time and then gently warming the coffee to drinking temperature.

BTW, ever remember reading about how the USAF paid $10,000 or so
for a coffee maker for their AWACS? It is my understanding that
commercial airlines pay about the same for theirs. Among other
features, the doffeemaker will not spill if the aircraft inverts,
though I daresay if you are flying a 747 inverted you have more
serious worries than spilling your coffee.

--

FF

Cliff wrote in news:rijkj1d7qi3v9idrcf76lqfppbm9k6034i@
4ax.com:

But how can you have any global warming at all when you deny it
exists?

Cites?

You have none, because this will be about the fifth time I've had to tell
you that I've never made that claim. You on the other hand still seem a bit
confused about hurricanes and CO2.


--

Dan

Cliff wrote in news:qpdmj1tdsigttqfuodibfs4g8mkaj2ojre@
4ax.com:

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:21:19 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:

This is not in dispute for data before 1990, and the data
after 1990 that says otherwise has been debunked for using urbanized
data points.

Like the polar ice caps melting & the ocean temps.

Good going, Sherlock.

Here's a question for you Cliff. If average global temps went down by 1
degree and stayed there, would the glaciers still melt?

Of course, it's very popular with alarmists to compare todays temps to
those during the "little ice age". Do we really wants to return to those
conditions?

http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/mandias/...e_ice_age.html


--

Dan

Cliff wrote in
:

On 28 Sep 2005 03:57:22 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:v8jij15191nkou21lg2fg28h4plf94ng4a@ 4ax.com:

On 26 Sep 2005 23:21:26 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

So you say, CO2 is a greenhouse gas? Of course it is. The
concentrations seen at that time (seen by examining carbon content
of sedimentary calcium carbonate)

Umm ..... How does that tell anything?

If you are truly interested take a class or read a book. I'll provide
a link once you write a two part essay explaining isotopes, and the
various ways that scientists uses carbon isotopes.

Do you have Carbon & Calcium confused again?
C12 & C13 are fairly stable, C14 has a half life of
~5760 years.
C14 dating is only good for about 50,000 years into
the past. Even if. When porous things (like sediments)
have things like water perhaps flowing thru them
newer carbon 14 can replace part of the older carbon ....
Hence C14 dating is not very good under such conditions.

What does carbon dating have to do with anything I wrote?


How old were those sediments again?

Re-read the OP.


Now, Calcium Carbonate is Calcium Carbonate ...
the ratios of Calcium to Carbon seem a bit fixed ...

Take my original advice.g



--

Dan

On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:27:34 -0500, "John Scheldroup"
wrote:


"Cliff" wrote in message ...
On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:24:27 -0500, "John Scheldroup"
wrote:

And many may be misusing the term "conduction". It's a bit
like billet, right?

Conduction is kinetic, when free electrons are conducted from the
stored unit of potential of "heat" in the water.

John,
Free electrons have little to do with the conduction of
heat. Don't confuse it with electricity or electrical conduction.


I'm surprised you said that

http://www.schoolscience.co.uk/conte...eelch1pg2.html

[
Free electrons

The ions in the lattice are vibrating . The ions at the hot end of a piece of metal
vibrate more. [Note the electrons have been left out of picture 1.5 to keep it clear.]

Let's look at just a few electrons.

The electrons at the hot end will speed up - they gain kinetic energy from the
vigorously vibrating ions.

Some of them will move down to the cooler end and collide with ions that are
vibrating less vigorously than those at the hot end.

In these collisions, the electrons will lose kinetic energy and make the ions vibrate
more vigorously.

In effect, the electrons have carried the vibrational energy from the hot end to
the cold end. And, because they are free to move through the lattice, they are able
to do this more quickly than the bonds between the ions in the lattice.
]

And the mass of those "ions" is what?
I did not look at your link ..... but now try explaining away that
thermal conduction of Diamond G.
--
Cliff

Cliff wrote:

Of course, it's very popular with alarmists to compare todays temps to
those during the "little ice age".

Cliff,

YOU can show 100 websites that say your pet problem is real, the next
guy can show 100 to say it is not.

YOU can show 100 websites that say the current administration is
somehow at fault for it, and the next guy can show 100 sites that say
it is not.

Yet, YOU have nothing that you can prove affected you PERSONALLY
related to that problem. Anything you might think you have, looks to be
"worth" or "backed" by only 1/2 of the "website science" out there.
And the worst part is, you think YOUR side is 100% right, and the other
to be 100% wrong. No proof... Just your feelings about it.

Then, YOU can show 100 websites that say the current administration did
everything wrong, and the next guy can show you 100 that Your favorite
side did everything wrong.

Because you didn't continuously post such pointed hatred prior to this
administration, you must feel that the last one was perfect. Never made
any error, never did anything wrong. On top of that, you clearly felt
there was nothing wrong in the entire world. No injustices, no
discriminations, no hatred.

Clearly, YOU will NEVER show even one website that would show, or
suggest that there may have been others who screwed up inside your
party. You fear truth so bad, you have not even ADMITTED to the actual
sequence of events that are SUPPOSED to happen BY CURRENT LAW, starting
with the LOCAL goverment. Your a real piece of work in this regard,
buying into one "side", and one side only, blathering on and on, all
the while exposing your transparencies.

Because you have no ability to recognize ALL of the faults, and only
post OT crap about your "one side" being perfect based on how wrong the
other side is, it shows you to be a political Whore, scattering
political divisive hatred, hoping to get others on your side. You do
not care about PEOPLE at all, only your selfish lonesome beliefs. You
do not care about your American history and Culture. People like you
put military people at risk with your one sided views. I dislike you
and people like you for that. YOUR type acts as if it is justifiable
for crazed, bonkerz, bomb laden suicide lovers to kill innocent people
without regard for current worldwide war agreements from long ago.

You can ramble on and on and on about the current war being wrong and
YOUR perfectly right, and have not a single concern for the wrong those
people with suicidal hatred, killing their own people.

YOUR type is for some reason shocked by Abu Grab, obviously because you
fell asleep in History class. You must have no idea what War is, and
has been, since the begining of time. You likely never talked to anyone
actually close to real war or what goes on there, right or wrong. I am
not an advocate to war at all, but I DO know what it has been, and what
it likely will always be as long as man tries to dominate man.

You work overtime to ignore any and all references that do not reflect
your political view, even if they are true. You very obviously HATE
anything, anyone, and everything that refuses to cave into YOUR
particular one sided viewpoint on every matter. If it is about
evolution, YOUR right, If it is about Creation, YOUR right. If it is
about administrations or military descisions, YOUR right.... Or rather
you THINK your right.

I hate to break it to you, but you are not. You are weak. You could not
lead, nor make successful life critical decisions. No one looks up to
you for anything accurate, not even what "water to use in your
radiator". Your not Davinci, Your not Einstien, Your not in the same
class as the Wright brothers, Abner Doble, Tucker or John Glen.......
Heck, I am wondering if your even human.

You ALWAYS only show ONE side, Purely and ONLY because of YOUR
political views. It is all about "the side" YOU like better than the
other, not because of any TRUTH, not because of any specific factual
evidence. YOUR type just can't bring themself to admit that Truth in
only one side DOES NOT EXIST. I as does the majority of this world
understand that if you have at least a "half a brain", You can't place
blame for anything on only one side.

The craziest part, is that you actually think you can convince others
something as stupid as one man currently in charge actually "Caused
Hurricanes".... or that He "Caused the Levees to Fail".... Or that "he
created poverty".....Blah,blah and blah.

You just LOVE how all the fruitcakes get on YOUR favorite newschannels
and come up with the most incredible, unsubstantiated and rediculous
RUBBISH, like new one..... "the bad white man bombed the levees", and
the bad white man didn't take over fast enough" (even though that would
be illegal). YOUR type believes that poverty is because the governments
do not send enough free money to the poor, that we need to pay for more
abortions. I wouldn't doubt if YOUR type will brilliantly decide that
ALL poor people should get a free car, free insurance, and free
gasoline, just so they could escape their poor neighborhoods in case
of emergency. THAT is how foolish you are.

YOUR transparency is scary. I worry for MY kids growing up with such
stupidity, such hatred and such self generated lie and conspiracy
against fellow man. It is rediculous.

Don't bother jumping back with what YOU feel is injustice happening
elsewhere in the world, because YOU do not understand it, not even the
most basic parts of it. You do not like to hear those elsewhere tell
you that they are making a difference, or that the locals elsewhere are
thrilled with newfound freedoms, and cant wait until they can really
excersise them.

YOU only care about Money issues because your primary problem in life
is YOUR Greed. It is embedded in you so deep, that you do not even
realize what your problem looks like to the res of us. You can't go
even one day without angering yourself by muttering the words "Iraqy
Oil" or "Haliburton" YOU cant stop for even a second and admit where
Iraq oil goes or gets used or who collects the money. You cant stop for
a millisecond and thank your lucky stars that you have a brother or
sister that HAS a job working for Haliburton, and HE or she FEEDS THEIR
family because of it. YOU are of the type that would rather see a
company destroyed and your Friends lives wrecked without work. YOU want
them too, to just get a handout, and then wonder how they got poor.

I am sorry that YOU think it is smart for people to build in flood
plains, and that YOU think taxes should pay for that foolishness. You
must,because your first unsubstantiated gripes were along the lines of
"It happened because of one man and his cutbacks" (No suprise that you
have no mention of any existing long term corruption already down there
- tha would go against your "Side")

I am sorry That you think we would need to relocate up to 40% of all
people with my tax money because you feel that no one should have to
take any responsibility for themselves. Nope, Everything is handout in
your world. Giveme,Giveme...... That is all you know and believe in,
then you stand in your stupor and wonder why there is a national debt,
and because you can't figure it out, you blame your easy target.

YOU hate company profits that need to be in place to continue to grow.
YOU talk about "PORK" for one side, in fact wave a big flag so everyone
sees your talking about it, but ignore "pork" when it is from YOUR
side. In fact, you act as if your side has never had anything that even
remotely resembles pork. This is obvious because you didn't jump out
and make any mention of the WASTE in what the locals in LA are "Asking"
for, Yet Everyone knows how fast you would have Blathered if the very
same proposal came out of the side you HATE.

YOU are confused when someone points out to you, that if the US would
drop using fossil fuels like a bad habit without any other options,
OTHER Countries would KEEP using it, QUICKLY surpassing developments
and advancements HERE. YOU act as if WE stopped using it, all your
Global Warming problems would go away. How foolish.

THEY would gladly PAY higher fuel costs in order to do pass us up, and
with their greed for power, those countries would eventually focus
their thoughts on ownership of the title of "world power". It must be
what YOU want, because you obviously do not care.

YOU have no good ideas, you have no good answers. You just like to
complain and whine like a 2 year old, that doesn't really have a firm
GRIP on realities.

Unreal. Unreal..........

Grummy

On 30 Sep 2005 23:36:56 -0700, wrote:

Cliff wrote:

Of course, it's very popular with alarmists to compare todays temps to
those during the "little ice age".

Actually, I did not write that. I only quoted it from a prior post.
Did you miss that?

Cliff,

YOU can show 100 websites that say your pet problem is real, the next
guy can show 100 to say it is not.

Immaterial.
Websites and their number do not indicate that you know
what the subject is or who is lying & using misdirection.

YOU can show 100 websites that say the current administration is
somehow at fault for it, and the next guy can show 100 sites that say
it is not.

Always suspect Falwell & the neocons.

Yet, YOU have nothing that you can prove affected you PERSONALLY
related to that problem.

And, when the discussion is about CO2 & global warming, what
would last Thursday's snowfall and my possible lack of chains
on the rear wheels have to do with foorp of causation?

Anything you might think you have, looks to be
"worth" or "backed" by only 1/2 of the "website science" out there.
And the worst part is, you think YOUR side is 100% right, and the other
to be 100% wrong. No proof... Just your feelings about it.

And you don't even begin to grasp what the subject is about.

Then, YOU can show 100 websites that say the current administration did
everything wrong,

Found those "WMDs" yet?
How's that faith-based "science" working out?

and the next guy can show you 100 that Your favorite
side did everything wrong.

You should discuss your feelings with BottleBob.

Because you didn't continuously post such pointed hatred prior to this
administration, you must feel that the last one was perfect. Never made
any error, never did anything wrong. On top of that, you clearly felt
there was nothing wrong in the entire world. No injustices, no
discriminations, no hatred.

Gee ..... and you discovered all of this exactly how?
BTW, As you wingers well know, Al Gore invented the Internet.
For the rubber duckie, in what year?

Clearly, YOU will NEVER show even one website that would show, or
suggest that there may have been others who screwed up inside your
party. You fear truth so bad, you have not even ADMITTED to the actual
sequence of events that are SUPPOSED to happen BY CURRENT LAW, starting
with the LOCAL goverment. Your a real piece of work in this regard,
buying into one "side", and one side only, blathering on and on, all
the while exposing your transparencies.

So you are now blaming *my* local government for CO2 & global
warming?
Which one? National, State, County, Township or City?

Or is this about the current administration's gutting of the EPA,
OSHA, science & research, etc.? Or their beloved edits & alterations
of reports to suit their religion?

Because you have no ability to recognize ALL of the faults, and only
post OT crap about your "one side" being perfect based on how wrong the
other side is, it shows you to be a political Whore, scattering
political divisive hatred, hoping to get others on your side. You do
not care about PEOPLE at all,

Like the ~100,000 ++ murdered so far in Iraq & Afghanistan
by your heroes?

only your selfish lonesome beliefs. You
do not care about your American history and Culture. People like you
put military people at risk with your one sided views.

Found those "WMDs" yet?

I dislike you
and people like you for that. YOUR type acts as if it is justifiable
for crazed, bonkerz, bomb laden suicide lovers to kill innocent people

But not from 40,000 feet & home for a Haliburton catered dinner?

without regard for current worldwide war agreements from long ago.

There would be the ones that the neocons abrogated before & after
they violated the Geneva Conventions, the laws against kidnapping
& torture, the UN Charter, all those treaties, etc?

You can ramble on and on and on about the current war being wrong and
YOUR perfectly right, and have not a single concern for the wrong those
people with suicidal hatred, killing their own people.

What are you ranting on about now? Probably not the ~ 100,000 ++
murdered by the neocons, right?
They are, after all, now saved from a moderate secular State with
rights for women, other religions, ..... in fact, they are dead.

YOUR type is for some reason shocked by Abu Grab, obviously because you
fell asleep in History class.

Don't let your pride in the wingers burst out in song.

You must have no idea what War is, and
has been, since the begining of time. You likely never talked to anyone
actually close to real war or what goes on there, right or wrong. I am
not an advocate to war at all, but I DO know what it has been, and what
it likely will always be as long as man tries to dominate man.

And your much beloved brain-dead wingers ....

You work overtime to ignore any and all references that do not reflect
your political view, even if they are true. You very obviously HATE
anything, anyone, and everything that refuses to cave into YOUR
particular one sided viewpoint on every matter.

You do sound a bit bloodthirsty today.

If it is about
evolution, YOUR right, If it is about Creation, YOUR right. If it is
about administrations or military descisions, YOUR right.... Or rather
you THINK your right.

Gee ... it takes real effort to be wrong 100% of the time.
How do your heroes manage to do it?

I hate to break it to you, but you are not. You are weak. You could not
lead, nor make successful life critical decisions. No one looks up to
you for anything accurate, not even what "water to use in your
radiator". Your not Davinci, Your not Einstien, Your not in the same
class as the Wright brothers, Abner Doble, Tucker or John Glen.......
Heck, I am wondering if your even human.

Do you have a motrocycle and some old tires in your
front yard? More than one household appliance?

You ALWAYS only show ONE side, Purely and ONLY because of YOUR
political views. It is all about "the side" YOU like better than the
other, not because of any TRUTH, not because of any specific factual
evidence. YOUR type just can't bring themself to admit that Truth in
only one side DOES NOT EXIST.

Explain again why 1+1 2.

I as does the majority of this world
understand that if you have at least a "half a brain", You can't place
blame for anything on only one side.

What side is yours in what, exactly?

The craziest part, is that you actually think you can convince others
something as stupid as one man currently in charge actually "Caused
Hurricanes".... or that He "Caused the Levees to Fail".... Or that "he
created poverty".....Blah,blah and blah.

Fools rush in, right?
When not on vacation .....

You just LOVE how all the fruitcakes get on YOUR favorite newschannels
and come up with the most incredible, unsubstantiated and rediculous
RUBBISH, like new one..... "the bad white man bombed the levees", and
the bad white man didn't take over fast enough" (even though that would
be illegal). YOUR type believes that poverty is because the governments
do not send enough free money to the poor, that we need to pay for more
abortions. I wouldn't doubt if YOUR type will brilliantly decide that
ALL poor people should get a free car, free insurance, and free
gasoline, just so they could escape their poor neighborhoods in case
of emergency. THAT is how foolish you are.

YOUR transparency is scary. I worry for MY kids growing up with such
stupidity, such hatred and such self generated lie and conspiracy
against fellow man. It is rediculous.

Don't bother jumping back with what YOU feel is injustice happening
elsewhere in the world, because YOU do not understand it, not even the
most basic parts of it. You do not like to hear those elsewhere tell
you that they are making a difference, or that the locals elsewhere are
thrilled with newfound freedoms, and cant wait until they can really
excersise them.

I understand that they are doing rather well with those bombs in
Iraq.
Too bad about the "WMDs", right?

Perhaps they will now get some ....

YOU only care about Money issues because your primary problem in life
is YOUR Greed. It is embedded in you so deep, that you do not even
realize what your problem looks like to the res of us. You can't go
even one day without angering yourself by muttering the words "Iraqy
Oil" or "Haliburton" YOU cant stop for even a second and admit where
Iraq oil goes or gets used or who collects the money.

Where & Who?

You cant stop for
a millisecond and thank your lucky stars that you have a brother or
sister that HAS a job working for Haliburton, and HE or she FEEDS THEIR
family because of it. YOU are of the type that would rather see a
company destroyed and your Friends lives wrecked without work. YOU want
them too, to just get a handout, and then wonder how they got poor.

"Kill a Commie for Christ" again?

I am sorry that YOU think it is smart for people to build in flood
plains, and that YOU think taxes should pay for that foolishness.

But BUSH PROMISED TO REBUILD TRENT LOTT"S SIXTH (IIRC)
MANSION ASAP with your tax dollars & deficits !!! He's planning
on spending some quality vacation time on the veranda again ....

You
must,because your first unsubstantiated gripes were along the lines of
"It happened because of one man and his cutbacks" (No suprise that you
have no mention of any existing long term corruption already down there
- tha would go against your "Side")

Is that the Army corruption or the FEMA & Homeland
Insecurity corruption?
You seemed a bit unclear on this one.

I am sorry That you think we would need to relocate up to 40% of all
people with my tax money because you feel that no one should have to
take any responsibility for themselves. Nope, Everything is handout in
your world. Giveme,Giveme...... That is all you know and believe in,
then you stand in your stupor and wonder why there is a national debt,
and because you can't figure it out, you blame your easy target.

Neocons & Republicans with their beloved deficit spending?

YOU hate company profits that need to be in place to continue to grow.
YOU talk about "PORK" for one side, in fact wave a big flag so everyone
sees your talking about it, but ignore "pork" when it is from YOUR
side. In fact, you act as if your side has never had anything that even
remotely resembles pork. This is obvious because you didn't jump out
and make any mention of the WASTE in what the locals in LA are "Asking"
for, Yet Everyone knows how fast you would have Blathered if the very
same proposal came out of the side you HATE.

What are you drooling about?

YOU are confused when someone points out to you, that if the US would
drop using fossil fuels like a bad habit without any other options,
OTHER Countries would KEEP using it, QUICKLY surpassing developments
and advancements HERE. YOU act as if WE stopped using it, all your
Global Warming problems would go away. How foolish.

I like the way you frame your denials of the facts.

THEY would gladly PAY higher fuel costs in order to do pass us up, and
with their greed for power, those countries would eventually focus
their thoughts on ownership of the title of "world power". It must be
what YOU want, because you obviously do not care.

Your heroes are a worldwide joke, except to the likes of
Falwell, Robertson, Rush & Faux "news".

YOU have no good ideas, you have no good answers. You just like to
complain and whine like a 2 year old, that doesn't really have a firm
GRIP on realities.

Unreal. Unreal..........

I'm not the one that posted the BS VBG.

Grummy

--
Cliff

YOU can show 100 websites that say the current administration is
somehow at fault for it, and the next guy can show 100 sites that say
it is not.

apparently even shrub has finally admited the planet is warming up
still saying he doesnt know why though

i mean what does he care?
if he and buddies get flooded out of one house
they go to another and rebuild

Then, YOU can show 100 websites that say the current administration did
everything wrong,

five ten twenty years ago a number of issues couldve been addressed
with little or no pain
like carbon emissions national debt social security medical insurance
terrorism and international stability
third world poverty and disease petroluem dependence

but now after many years of negligence
(except clinton on the budget and attempts on medical insurance)
the problems are reaching the point where they will have to be addressed
and the solutions will tend to be drastic and painful

and what has shrub been doing for the last five years?
hes been adding to the problem not solving it

like your high gas prices?
will you make it through the winter without bankruptcy?
do you realize these problems today are mere hiccups to what is coming?
dont you think you would have an easier time this fall and winter
if alternatives had already been put in place and ready to go?

this problem was first addressed by jimmy carter
what has been done since then?

only your selfish lonesome beliefs. You
do not care about your American history and Culture. People like you
put military people at risk with your one sided views.

i think the military is put at greater risk
when it invades a foreign land
than when it sits here at home

speaking of one-sided
what do you think about people who attempt to suppress all dissent
and opposing views by labeling it treason
and organizing boycotts of disenters
and suggesting they be murdered?

land of the free

I dislike you
and people like you for that. YOUR type acts as if it is justifiable
for crazed, bonkerz, bomb laden suicide lovers to kill innocent people

what about raf or usaf pilot dropping a bomb on house
what about marine or soldier shooting up a car full of children or italians
because they didnt drive the way the soldiers wanted them to?

home of the brave

without regard for current worldwide war agreements from long ago.

the usa shows little regard for geneva conventions
the prisoners were supposed to be granted hearings
before being stripped of pow status

and torture is already outlawed internationally and by congress

what do you think of an attorney general
who debates the finer points of how much pain and anguish you can inflict
while pretending it isnt really torture

- i didnt have torture relations with that prisoner
- it depends on what the meaning of is is

with justice for all

You can ramble on and on and on about the current war being wrong and
YOUR perfectly right, and have not a single concern for the wrong those
people with suicidal hatred, killing their own people.

theres this little thinhg which republicans like call national sovereignity
it means what a country does to its own people is its own business

republicans are very keen on national sovereignity
for the usa
they dont seem to give a rats ass about it for other nations

You must have no idea what War is, and
has been, since the begining of time. You likely never talked to anyone

the usa and uk started the war without cause or reason

you know in domestic law most states have this rule
that if you commit a crime and someone dies along the way
you are held responsible for it as a murder

so lets apply your new found morality to say a bank robbery
you go in with guns blazing and kill a guard
at your trial you point out that guards have been dying in robberies
since time immemorial
its just part of doing business so youre not responsible

you also point out the bank manager denied your daddy a loan
so he deserved it

actually close to real war or what goes on there, right or wrong. I am
not an advocate to war at all, but I DO know what it has been, and what
it likely will always be as long as man tries to dominate man.

its real simple then dip****
dont start any more wars

wars dont just happen
they arent accidents or forces of nature

theyre decisions made by human beings
decide differently

If it is about
evolution, YOUR right, If it is about Creation, YOUR right. If it is
about administrations or military descisions, YOUR right.... Or rather
you THINK your right.

you know
sometimes stupidity is just stupidity
and gets exactly the attention it deserves

Heck, I am wondering if your even human.

i have attack ships in flames off the arm of orion
i have seen sea beans glittering in the moonlight by the tannhauser gates

i am an andrea chen sockpuppet

The craziest part, is that you actually think you can convince others
something as stupid as one man currently in charge actually "Caused
Hurricanes".... or that He "Caused the Levees to Fail".... Or that "he
created poverty".....Blah,blah and blah.

upa

You just LOVE how all the fruitcakes get on YOUR favorite newschannels
and come up with the most incredible, unsubstantiated and rediculous
RUBBISH, like new one..... "the bad white man bombed the levees", and

my favorite news channels are pbs and bbc
can you show any specific problems with any specific story
they have not corrected themselves?
or will you just label it all commie propaganda
and expect me to believe you?

ALL poor people should get a free car, free insurance, and free
gasoline, just so they could escape their poor neighborhoods in case
of emergency. THAT is how foolish you are.

actually they are thinking of building a light rail
that will extend into poorer neighborhoods
and provide them with an emergency escape route

YOUR transparency is scary. I worry for MY kids growing up with such
stupidity, such hatred and such self generated lie and conspiracy
against fellow man. It is rediculous.

you need to use more all caps

YOU only care about Money issues because your primary problem in life
is YOUR Greed. It is embedded in you so deep, that you do not even

a good chunk of the government problems can be resolved
by raising taxes to match spending

would you agree to pay more taxes?

You cant stop for
a millisecond and thank your lucky stars that you have a brother or
sister that HAS a job working for Haliburton, and HE or she FEEDS THEIR

they dont work there

I am sorry that YOU think it is smart for people to build in flood
plains, and that YOU think taxes should pay for that foolishness.

where do you want dockworkers and farmers to live?
where do you want all the supporting people they need to live?

You
must,because your first unsubstantiated gripes were along the lines of
"It happened because of one man and his cutbacks" (No suprise that you
have no mention of any existing long term corruption already down there
- tha would go against your "Side")

if there is long term corruption why hasnt shrub dealt with it
in the last four and half years?

I am sorry That you think we would need to relocate up to 40% of all
people with my tax money because you feel that no one should have to

geeze
take some basic economy

the government doesnt help to feel good
it helps to prevent a recession or even a depression

when people abandon an area the property and income taxes disappear
and the state and cities run out of money to spend on goods and services

and industries without workers have to abandon their capital investments
and take a heavy loss and might have to contract and lose more workers

a large enough disaster can cascade around the country
and take years of economic pain to recover

your world. Giveme,Giveme...... That is all you know and believe in,
then you stand in your stupor and wonder why there is a national debt,
and because you can't figure it out, you blame your easy target.

theres a debt because alexander hamilton showed
the continuing but manageable debt helps government finances

manageable being the key

not spending like drunken las vegas gambler the way shrub does

YOU are confused when someone points out to you, that if the US would
drop using fossil fuels like a bad habit without any other options,
OTHER Countries would KEEP using it, QUICKLY surpassing developments

actually dingdong other industrial countries are looking for alternatives
and tryiing to bully china and india into buying their products

its the usa thats risking being shut out of lucrative asian markets
not europe and japan

THEY would gladly PAY higher fuel costs in order to do pass us up, and
with their greed for power, those countries would eventually focus
their thoughts on ownership of the title of "world power". It must be
what YOU want, because you obviously do not care.

remember george washingtons lecture on foreign entanglements?

arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
killfile him

"mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"
wrote in message
...
YOU can show 100 websites that say the current administration is
somehow at fault for it, and the next guy can show 100 sites that say
it is not.

apparently even shrub has finally admited the planet is warming up
still saying he doesnt know why though

i mean what does he care?
if he and buddies get flooded out of one house
they go to another and rebuild

your behavior had made all tree-killers look like saints.


Then, YOU can show 100 websites that say the current administration did
everything wrong,

five ten twenty years ago a number of issues couldve been addressed
with little or no pain
like carbon emissions national debt social security medical insurance
terrorism and international stability
third world poverty and disease petroluem dependence

but now after many years of negligence
(except clinton on the budget and attempts on medical insurance)
the problems are reaching the point where they will have to be addressed
and the solutions will tend to be drastic and painful

and what has shrub been doing for the last five years?
hes been adding to the problem not solving it

like your high gas prices?
will you make it through the winter without bankruptcy?
do you realize these problems today are mere hiccups to what is coming?
dont you think you would have an easier time this fall and winter
if alternatives had already been put in place and ready to go?

this problem was first addressed by jimmy carter
what has been done since then?

only your selfish lonesome beliefs. You
do not care about your American history and Culture. People like you
put military people at risk with your one sided views.

i think the military is put at greater risk
when it invades a foreign land
than when it sits here at home

speaking of one-sided
what do you think about people who attempt to suppress all dissent
and opposing views by labeling it treason
and organizing boycotts of disenters
and suggesting they be murdered?

land of the free

I dislike you
and people like you for that. YOUR type acts as if it is justifiable
for crazed, bonkerz, bomb laden suicide lovers to kill innocent people

what about raf or usaf pilot dropping a bomb on house
what about marine or soldier shooting up a car full of children or
italians
because they didnt drive the way the soldiers wanted them to?

home of the brave

without regard for current worldwide war agreements from long ago.

the usa shows little regard for geneva conventions
the prisoners were supposed to be granted hearings
before being stripped of pow status

and torture is already outlawed internationally and by congress

what do you think of an attorney general
who debates the finer points of how much pain and anguish you can inflict
while pretending it isnt really torture

- i didnt have torture relations with that prisoner
- it depends on what the meaning of is is

with justice for all

You can ramble on and on and on about the current war being wrong and
YOUR perfectly right, and have not a single concern for the wrong those
people with suicidal hatred, killing their own people.

theres this little thinhg which republicans like call national
sovereignity
it means what a country does to its own people is its own business

republicans are very keen on national sovereignity
for the usa
they dont seem to give a rats ass about it for other nations

You must have no idea what War is, and
has been, since the begining of time. You likely never talked to anyone

the usa and uk started the war without cause or reason

you know in domestic law most states have this rule
that if you commit a crime and someone dies along the way
you are held responsible for it as a murder

so lets apply your new found morality to say a bank robbery
you go in with guns blazing and kill a guard
at your trial you point out that guards have been dying in robberies
since time immemorial
its just part of doing business so youre not responsible

you also point out the bank manager denied your daddy a loan
so he deserved it

actually close to real war or what goes on there, right or wrong. I am
not an advocate to war at all, but I DO know what it has been, and what
it likely will always be as long as man tries to dominate man.

its real simple then dip****
dont start any more wars

wars dont just happen
they arent accidents or forces of nature

theyre decisions made by human beings
decide differently

If it is about
evolution, YOUR right, If it is about Creation, YOUR right. If it is
about administrations or military descisions, YOUR right.... Or rather
you THINK your right.

you know
sometimes stupidity is just stupidity
and gets exactly the attention it deserves

Heck, I am wondering if your even human.

i have attack ships in flames off the arm of orion
i have seen sea beans glittering in the moonlight by the tannhauser gates

i am an andrea chen sockpuppet

The craziest part, is that you actually think you can convince others
something as stupid as one man currently in charge actually "Caused
Hurricanes".... or that He "Caused the Levees to Fail".... Or that "he
created poverty".....Blah,blah and blah.

upa

You just LOVE how all the fruitcakes get on YOUR favorite newschannels
and come up with the most incredible, unsubstantiated and rediculous
RUBBISH, like new one..... "the bad white man bombed the levees", and

my favorite news channels are pbs and bbc
can you show any specific problems with any specific story
they have not corrected themselves?
or will you just label it all commie propaganda
and expect me to believe you?

ALL poor people should get a free car, free insurance, and free
gasoline, just so they could escape their poor neighborhoods in case
of emergency. THAT is how foolish you are.

actually they are thinking of building a light rail
that will extend into poorer neighborhoods
and provide them with an emergency escape route

YOUR transparency is scary. I worry for MY kids growing up with such
stupidity, such hatred and such self generated lie and conspiracy
against fellow man. It is rediculous.

you need to use more all caps

YOU only care about Money issues because your primary problem in life
is YOUR Greed. It is embedded in you so deep, that you do not even

a good chunk of the government problems can be resolved
by raising taxes to match spending

would you agree to pay more taxes?

You cant stop for
a millisecond and thank your lucky stars that you have a brother or
sister that HAS a job working for Haliburton, and HE or she FEEDS THEIR

they dont work there

I am sorry that YOU think it is smart for people to build in flood
plains, and that YOU think taxes should pay for that foolishness.

where do you want dockworkers and farmers to live?
where do you want all the supporting people they need to live?

You
must,because your first unsubstantiated gripes were along the lines of
"It happened because of one man and his cutbacks" (No suprise that you
have no mention of any existing long term corruption already down there
- tha would go against your "Side")

if there is long term corruption why hasnt shrub dealt with it
in the last four and half years?

I am sorry That you think we would need to relocate up to 40% of all
people with my tax money because you feel that no one should have to

geeze
take some basic economy

the government doesnt help to feel good
it helps to prevent a recession or even a depression

when people abandon an area the property and income taxes disappear
and the state and cities run out of money to spend on goods and services

and industries without workers have to abandon their capital investments
and take a heavy loss and might have to contract and lose more workers

a large enough disaster can cascade around the country
and take years of economic pain to recover

your world. Giveme,Giveme...... That is all you know and believe in,
then you stand in your stupor and wonder why there is a national debt,
and because you can't figure it out, you blame your easy target.

theres a debt because alexander hamilton showed
the continuing but manageable debt helps government finances

manageable being the key

not spending like drunken las vegas gambler the way shrub does

YOU are confused when someone points out to you, that if the US would
drop using fossil fuels like a bad habit without any other options,
OTHER Countries would KEEP using it, QUICKLY surpassing developments

actually dingdong other industrial countries are looking for alternatives
and tryiing to bully china and india into buying their products

its the usa thats risking being shut out of lucrative asian markets
not europe and japan

THEY would gladly PAY higher fuel costs in order to do pass us up, and
with their greed for power, those countries would eventually focus
their thoughts on ownership of the title of "world power". It must be
what YOU want, because you obviously do not care.

remember george washingtons lecture on foreign entanglements?

arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
killfile him

In article ,
"Real Friendly Neighborhood Vote Ranger" wrote:

"mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"
wrote in message
...
YOU can show 100 websites that say the current administration is
somehow at fault for it, and the next guy can show 100 sites that say
it is not.

apparently even shrub has finally admited the planet is warming up
still saying he doesnt know why though

i mean what does he care?
if he and buddies get flooded out of one house
they go to another and rebuild

your behavior had made all tree-killers look like saints.

will no one think about the saplings?

arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
killfile him

"mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"
wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Real Friendly Neighborhood Vote Ranger" wrote:

"mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"
wrote in message
...
YOU can show 100 websites that say the current administration is
somehow at fault for it, and the next guy can show 100 sites that
say
it is not.

apparently even shrub has finally admited the planet is warming up
still saying he doesnt know why though

i mean what does he care?
if he and buddies get flooded out of one house
they go to another and rebuild

your behavior had made all tree-killers look like saints.

will no one think about the saplings?

that sounds about right. you are not left or right. Your asshole is right in
the middle.


arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
killfile him

Cliff wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:21:19 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:

Bringing out a bigger clue stick.

I've posted many times on the amount of CO2 in the system being vastly
greater than the amount of CO2 made by man.


yes carbon dioxide has been part of the atmosphere since the beginning
but the amount varies

I don't think you understand the meaning of my statement.


Well, it's pretty clear that you don't begin to grasp it.

Tell me what you think a closed system is.
Is the CO2 in the air a closed system on a global scale?

If one is to
consider the amount of CO2 in the closed system,


And adding CO2 to the extent of about doubling it in the
atmosphere makes it closed in what way?

You clearly don't know what is meant by a closed system.

If my system is a box, I can add CO2 to that closed system.

If the box contains water, and a precipitate of carbonic acid, that is
my system.

We can consider the Carbon in fossile fuels to be out of the closed
system, for the purposes of this discussion.

This is high school science that you don't seem to know.

one would have to not
just consider the CO2 in the atmosphere, but in the oceans and in the
ocean rock, as well.


Why? Much is sequestered Carbon, not CO2.
Such is out of the short term cycle.

Again, elementary chemistry. There is an equilibrium of CO2 in the air
with the CO2 disolved in water. And the CO2 in the water is in
equilibrium with the carbon in the rocks in the water.

If you take CO2 out of the air, CO2 will come out of the water and
carbon will come out of the rock to form CO2.

If you warm the system (earth), CO2 will come out of the water and into
the air because the solubility of CO2 in warm water is less than the
solubility of CO2 in cold water.

The amount of CO2 in the earths oceans is a couple orders of magnitude
greater than the CO2 in the air.



This is because CO2 can disolve in the oceans and
it can parcipiate out of the sea water. An equilibrium exist between the
solid, the disolved, and the atmospheric CO2.


It's not solid CO2.
And the rest of is not at equilibrium .... much more keeps getting
added. Equilibrium was perhaps 200 years ago. Perhaps.


Thus, the amount of CO2 in the closed system is so great, the amount of
"man made" CO2 is trivial in comparison.


It's about 50 % of what's there today as the levels have about
doubled (and are rising fast).

And, if you considered the amount of CO2 we're putting into the air, and
if the atmosphere was the closed system you're implicitly (and stupidly)
taking it to be, we would have far more than doubled it.

Only half of what we "added" showed up in the atmosphere. The rest ended
up in trees, or to rebalance the equilibrium with the oceans. But the
amout we added is trival to the amount in the oceans, which raises the
question and highlights the fact that man made CO2 probably is not the
cause of the increased CO2 levels in the atmosphere.

And since physics shows that the CO2 cannot have caused the golbal
warming, perhaps the warming caused the CO2, and something else caused
the warming. Solar Cycle data shows this is the true case.

Some leftist are being forced to admit the compelling evidence that the
source of at least some of the warming is the sun:
http://www.livescience.com/environme...un_effect.html

Their error is that they are still using the flawed surface temperature
data, and they are overstating the warming. If they use the correct
temperature from reliable papers, it is clear that the warming is almost
totally accounted for by the solar cylce.

Man made global warming started out as speculation after the atmosphere
of Venus was discovered to contain carbon dioxide. It was debunked soon
after, but the leftist dug up this dead issue from it's grave and have
been using it as a propaganda tool against the west. It's bad science.



In addition, the global temp LAGS the CO2 curve .... there's LOTS of
mass to warm up.

Need a bigger clue stick?

You're pretty damn dense, really.

Cliff wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:21:19 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:


This is not in dispute for data before 1990, and the data
after 1990 that says otherwise has been debunked for using urbanized
data points.


Like the polar ice caps melting & the ocean temps.

Good going, Sherlock.

Idiot. I didn't say the earth wasn't warming.

I didn't say that the global warming isn't a problem.

I said it wasn't warming as fast as Jones said it was warming.

This has been clear from the literature for over a decade. The flaw in
Jones' data was that he used data from data collection points that have
become urbanized. Once these bad data points are removed from the set of
data, the surface temperature once again agrees with the upper
atmosphere temperature data and the solar cycle predictions of global
temperature.

And if solar cycle explains the temperature data, then you can dispose
of the other computer models that make predictions that fit data that is
KNOWN to be bogus. This very fact that these models fit the bogus data
proves they are contrived and false models.

Cliff wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:21:19 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:


WHAT CAUSED THE CO2 TO MELT IN THE FIRST PLACE?


Your clueless BS & hot air?


No answer, huh?

Figures.

And an idiot like you says that the people who ask questions that he
can't answer are full of hot air.

Pretty damned funny.

Admit you're wrong and be done with it. But you can't do that, you're a
good little anti-capitalist propagandist, aren't you?

Cliff wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:21:19 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:


The rate of the warming is fast enough that if the CO2 melting caused
enough warming to increase the rate of CO2 melting (that is, the system
is unstable) then all the CO2 would have melted billions of years ago.
But it didn't. The system should be stable. Something has preterbed it

from it's equilibrium point.

Which raises the issue that since Mars is a dead planet, what preterbs
and warms Mars should also preterb and warm Earth.


Gee ... you think that they have the same orbital characteristics,
do you? Same seasons too ... when you are warm so is Mars?

Yes. Same sun, and the sun is the first cause. You figured that out all
on your own.

And since the sun is the common cause for both events, you can give up
your man made global warming bull****.

And if solar cycle explains the temperature data, then you can dispose
of the other computer models that make predictions that fit data that is

what does your solar cycle about a thirty percent incrase in the suns output
without a corresponding in temperature?

arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
killfile him

Real Friendly Neighborhood Vote Ranger wrote:
"Stuart Grey" wrote in message
...

Cliff wrote:

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:21:19 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:



This is not in dispute for data before 1990, and the data
after 1990 that says otherwise has been debunked for using urbanized
data points.


Like the polar ice caps melting & the ocean temps.

Good going, Sherlock.

Idiot. I didn't say the earth wasn't warming.

I didn't say that the global warming isn't a problem.


why don't you move to the hurricane belt?

You're irrational.

I said it wasn't warming as fast as Jones said it was warming.

This has been clear from the literature for over a decade. The flaw in
Jones' data was that he used data from data collection points that have
become urbanized. Once these bad data points are removed from the set of
data, the surface temperature once again agrees with the upper
atmosphere temperature data and the solar cycle predictions of global
temperature.

And if solar cycle explains the temperature data, then you can dispose
of the other computer models that make predictions that fit data that is
KNOWN to be bogus. This very fact that these models fit the bogus data
proves they are contrived and false models.

"Stuart Grey" wrote in message
...
Cliff wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:21:19 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:


This is not in dispute for data before 1990, and the data
after 1990 that says otherwise has been debunked for using urbanized
data points.


Like the polar ice caps melting & the ocean temps.

Good going, Sherlock.

Idiot. I didn't say the earth wasn't warming.

I didn't say that the global warming isn't a problem.

why don't you move to the hurricane belt?


I said it wasn't warming as fast as Jones said it was warming.

This has been clear from the literature for over a decade. The flaw in
Jones' data was that he used data from data collection points that have
become urbanized. Once these bad data points are removed from the set of
data, the surface temperature once again agrees with the upper
atmosphere temperature data and the solar cycle predictions of global
temperature.

And if solar cycle explains the temperature data, then you can dispose
of the other computer models that make predictions that fit data that is
KNOWN to be bogus. This very fact that these models fit the bogus data
proves they are contrived and false models.

Again, elementary chemistry. There is an equilibrium of CO2 in the air
with the CO2 disolved in water. And the CO2 in the water is in
equilibrium with the carbon in the rocks in the water.

a system in equilibrium means
the various components arent changing in overall amounts

amount carbon in the air is increasing
so the system is not in equilibrium

youre misusing yer high falutin terminology sunshine

you might be trying to say that amount carbon in system in constant
which is approximately true
but the carbon is currently being rapidly redistributed
in the biosphere and lithosphere

And, if you considered the amount of CO2 we're putting into the air, and
if the atmosphere was the closed system you're implicitly (and stupidly)
taking it to be, we would have far more than doubled it.

your implicitly and stupidly assuming a linear response

Some leftist are being forced to admit the compelling evidence that the
source of at least some of the warming is the sun:

american car makers are taking another hit against imports

you know those evil leftists have been warning about fuel efficiency
for the last few decades
but good old american know how figured out how to make cars
heavier and less fuel efficient

and now when reality takes american driver by the neck again
suddenly its small cars again and the people who make them

Man made global warming started out as speculation after the atmosphere
of Venus was discovered to contain carbon dioxide. It was debunked soon

no carbon dioxide in the venus atmosphere?

arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
killfile him

"Stuart Grey" wrote in message
...
Cliff wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:21:19 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:


WHAT CAUSED THE CO2 TO MELT IN THE FIRST PLACE?


Your clueless BS & hot air?


No answer, huh?

Figures.

And an idiot like you says that the people who ask questions that he
can't answer are full of hot air.

good catch here!


Pretty damned funny.

Admit you're wrong and be done with it. But you can't do that, you're a
good little anti-capitalist propagandist, aren't you?

In article ,
Stuart Grey wrote:

Cliff wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:21:19 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:


The rate of the warming is fast enough that if the CO2 melting caused
enough warming to increase the rate of CO2 melting (that is, the system
is unstable) then all the CO2 would have melted billions of years ago.
But it didn't. The system should be stable. Something has preterbed it

from it's equilibrium point.

Which raises the issue that since Mars is a dead planet, what preterbs
and warms Mars should also preterb and warm Earth.


Gee ... you think that they have the same orbital characteristics,
do you? Same seasons too ... when you are warm so is Mars?

Yes. Same sun, and the sun is the first cause. You figured that out all
on your own.

And since the sun is the common cause for both events, you can give up
your man made global warming bull****.


same sun as shining on venus?

arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
killfile him

Admit you're wrong and be done with it. But you can't do that, you're a
good little anti-capitalist propagandist, aren't you?

what happens when the usa can no longer export goods
to countries which signed the kyoto protocols?

arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
killfile him

"Stuart Grey" wrote in message
...
Cliff wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:21:19 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:


The rate of the warming is fast enough that if the CO2 melting caused
enough warming to increase the rate of CO2 melting (that is, the system
is unstable) then all the CO2 would have melted billions of years ago.
But it didn't. The system should be stable. Something has preterbed it

from it's equilibrium point.

Which raises the issue that since Mars is a dead planet, what preterbs
and warms Mars should also preterb and warm Earth.


Gee ... you think that they have the same orbital characteristics,
do you? Same seasons too ... when you are warm so is Mars?

Yes. Same sun, and the sun is the first cause. You figured that out all
on your own.

And since the sun is the common cause for both events, you can give up
your man made global warming bull****.

hint: if you imagine you are the fetus, if you smoke crack in the womb,
wouldn't you cause mom at least coughing?

In article ,
Stuart Grey wrote:

You're irrational.

you say it like thats a bad thing

arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
killfile him

In article ,
"Real Friendly Neighborhood Vote Ranger" wrote:

"mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"
wrote in message
...
And if solar cycle explains the temperature data, then you can dispose
of the other computer models that make predictions that fit data that is

what does your solar cycle about a thirty percent incrase in the suns
output
without a corresponding in temperature?

how do you cycle about an increase in percentage?

old hiking maxim
the integral of gravity around any closed loop is always positive

arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
killfile him

mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges wrote:
Admit you're wrong and be done with it. But you can't do that, you're a
good little anti-capitalist propagandist, aren't you?


what happens when the usa can no longer export goods
to countries which signed the kyoto protocols?


Stupid commie.

We don't export as much as we import. We don't export much at all!

What happens is that we don't import, and lots of Americans get some
good jobs back.

mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
wrote in :

what happens when the usa can no longer export goods
to countries which signed the kyoto protocols?

They'll run out of bullets?


--

Dan

In article ,
Stuart Grey wrote:

mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges wrote:
Admit you're wrong and be done with it. But you can't do that, you're a
good little anti-capitalist propagandist, aren't you?


what happens when the usa can no longer export goods
to countries which signed the kyoto protocols?


Stupid commie.

We don't export as much as we import. We don't export much at all!

hence the whole balance of debt issue

What happens is that we don't import, and lots of Americans get some
good jobs back.

north korea and china tried this
didnt work out so well

arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
killfile him

"mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"
wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Real Friendly Neighborhood Vote Ranger" wrote:

"mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"
wrote in message
...
And if solar cycle explains the temperature data, then you can
dispose
of the other computer models that make predictions that fit data
that is

what does your solar cycle about a thirty percent incrase in the suns
output
without a corresponding in temperature?

how do you cycle about an increase in percentage?

old hiking maxim
the integral of gravity around any closed loop is always positive

instead of acknowledging an grammatical error?


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"mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"
wrote in message
...
In article ,
Stuart Grey wrote:

You're irrational.

you say it like thats a bad thing

irrational itself is a bad thing which is different from being emotional.


arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
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"Stuart Grey" wrote in message
...
Real Friendly Neighborhood Vote Ranger wrote:
"Stuart Grey" wrote in message
...

Cliff wrote:

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:21:19 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:



This is not in dispute for data before 1990, and the data
after 1990 that says otherwise has been debunked for using urbanized
data points.


Like the polar ice caps melting & the ocean temps.

Good going, Sherlock.

Idiot. I didn't say the earth wasn't warming.

I didn't say that the global warming isn't a problem.


why don't you move to the hurricane belt?

You're irrational.

rationally speaking, shouldn't you bear the consequences of your own believe
or behavior?


I said it wasn't warming as fast as Jones said it was warming.

This has been clear from the literature for over a decade. The flaw in
Jones' data was that he used data from data collection points that have
become urbanized. Once these bad data points are removed from the set of
data, the surface temperature once again agrees with the upper
atmosphere temperature data and the solar cycle predictions of global
temperature.

And if solar cycle explains the temperature data, then you can dispose
of the other computer models that make predictions that fit data that is
KNOWN to be bogus. This very fact that these models fit the bogus data
proves they are contrived and false models.

"mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"
wrote in message
...
Admit you're wrong and be done with it. But you can't do that, you're a
good little anti-capitalist propagandist, aren't you?

what happens when the usa can no longer export goods
to countries which signed the kyoto protocols?

if you were smart like me, you'd be able to say this:
the stake for the US is, being the current leader of the world, wouldn't US
want to keep that way by eliminating elements that would undermine its
leadership role?


arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
killfile him

"mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"
wrote in message
...
In article ,
Stuart Grey wrote:

Cliff wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:21:19 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:


The rate of the warming is fast enough that if the CO2 melting caused
enough warming to increase the rate of CO2 melting (that is, the
system
is unstable) then all the CO2 would have melted billions of years ago.
But it didn't. The system should be stable. Something has preterbed it

from it's equilibrium point.

Which raises the issue that since Mars is a dead planet, what preterbs
and warms Mars should also preterb and warm Earth.


Gee ... you think that they have the same orbital characteristics,
do you? Same seasons too ... when you are warm so is Mars?

Yes. Same sun, and the sun is the first cause. You figured that out all
on your own.

And since the sun is the common cause for both events, you can give up
your man made global warming bull****.


same sun as shining on venus?

both of you had flawed logic here. Being on earth, we are all affected by
influence of external source such as stars and planets, no matter how remote
they are. And we are all affected by influences of internal sources such as
earth, ourselves and actions and behavior of ourselves. The ones who want to
downplay effects of our behaviors may be selfish. The ones who want to
inflat the effects of our action are delusional. remember this is only a
flamming thread.




arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
killfile him

mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges wrote:
In article ,
Stuart Grey wrote:


mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges wrote:

Admit you're wrong and be done with it. But you can't do that, you're a
good little anti-capitalist propagandist, aren't you?


what happens when the usa can no longer export goods
to countries which signed the kyoto protocols?


Stupid commie.

We don't export as much as we import. We don't export much at all!


hence the whole balance of debt issue


What happens is that we don't import, and lots of Americans get some
good jobs back.


north korea and china tried this
didnt work out so well

The answer is not to be a communist son of a bitch.

Their failures was because they were communist, not because of their
balance of trade.

And here you are, the capitalist hater trying to get us to repeat their
mistakes.

arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
killfile him

Real Friendly Neighborhood Vote Ranger wrote:
"Stuart Grey" wrote in message
...

Real Friendly Neighborhood Vote Ranger wrote:

"Stuart Grey" wrote in message
...


Cliff wrote:


On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:21:19 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:




This is not in dispute for data before 1990, and the data
after 1990 that says otherwise has been debunked for using urbanized
data points.


Like the polar ice caps melting & the ocean temps.

Good going, Sherlock.

Idiot. I didn't say the earth wasn't warming.

I didn't say that the global warming isn't a problem.


why don't you move to the hurricane belt?

You're irrational.


rationally speaking, shouldn't you bear the consequences of your own believe
or behavior?

What part of "I didn't say the earth wasn't warming" did you fail to
comprehend?

The earth clearly is warming. Not as much as the leftist say it is, but
it is warming.

Nor did I say it was not a problem. I think it clearly is a problem; but
again, the leftist tend to overstate it.

Given that I agree that there is global warming and that it is a
problem, why the hell would someone ask me to move to the hurricane belt
to bear the consequences of my own beliefs?

I said the warming wasn't man made. That is what the leftist disagree with.

I said you're irrational. I still say you're irrational, even stupid.

In article ,
"Real Friendly Neighborhood Vote Ranger" wrote:

"mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"
wrote in message
...
In article ,
Stuart Grey wrote:

Cliff wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:21:19 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:


The rate of the warming is fast enough that if the CO2 melting caused
enough warming to increase the rate of CO2 melting (that is, the
system
is unstable) then all the CO2 would have melted billions of years ago.
But it didn't. The system should be stable. Something has preterbed it

from it's equilibrium point.

Which raises the issue that since Mars is a dead planet, what preterbs
and warms Mars should also preterb and warm Earth.


Gee ... you think that they have the same orbital characteristics,
do you? Same seasons too ... when you are warm so is Mars?

Yes. Same sun, and the sun is the first cause. You figured that out all
on your own.

And since the sun is the common cause for both events, you can give up
your man made global warming bull****.


same sun as shining on venus?

both of you had flawed logic here. Being on earth, we are all affected by
influence of external source such as stars and planets, no matter how remote
they are. And we are all affected by influences of internal sources such as
earth, ourselves and actions and behavior of ourselves. The ones who want to
downplay effects of our behaviors may be selfish. The ones who want to
inflat the effects of our action are delusional. remember this is only a
flamming thread.

this is only a flemish thread

arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
killfile him

In article ,
Stuart Grey wrote:

mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges wrote:
In article ,
Stuart Grey wrote:


mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges wrote:

Admit you're wrong and be done with it. But you can't do that, you're a
good little anti-capitalist propagandist, aren't you?


what happens when the usa can no longer export goods
to countries which signed the kyoto protocols?


Stupid commie.

We don't export as much as we import. We don't export much at all!


hence the whole balance of debt issue


What happens is that we don't import, and lots of Americans get some
good jobs back.


north korea and china tried this
didnt work out so well

The answer is not to be a communist son of a bitch.

Their failures was because they were communist, not because of their
balance of trade.

And here you are, the capitalist hater trying to get us to repeat their
mistakes.

what
no all caps

arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
killfile him

In article ,
Stuart Grey wrote:

Real Friendly Neighborhood Vote Ranger wrote:
"Stuart Grey" wrote in message
...

Real Friendly Neighborhood Vote Ranger wrote:

"Stuart Grey" wrote in message
...


Cliff wrote:


On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:21:19 -0700, Stuart Grey
wrote:




This is not in dispute for data before 1990, and the data
after 1990 that says otherwise has been debunked for using urbanized
data points.


Like the polar ice caps melting & the ocean temps.

Good going, Sherlock.

Idiot. I didn't say the earth wasn't warming.

I didn't say that the global warming isn't a problem.


why don't you move to the hurricane belt?

You're irrational.


rationally speaking, shouldn't you bear the consequences of your own believe
or behavior?

What part of "I didn't say the earth wasn't warming" did you fail to
comprehend?

The earth clearly is warming. Not as much as the leftist say it is, but
it is warming.

Nor did I say it was not a problem. I think it clearly is a problem; but
again, the leftist tend to overstate it.

and the economic reprecussions?

arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together

if you meet buddha on the usenet
killfile him