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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
I just picked up my new eyeglasses (quoting Errol, "WooHoo!!!" - I
can see again). The frames are a from a model line called "Flexon, by Marchon". Now, I don't pay a whole lot of attention to eyeglass frames, I don't have a clue what's stylish, etc. When I told the salesman I wanted something sturdy, he walked over, picked up a pair of these frames & twisted them beyond recognition. When he released his grip, they popped right back to their original shape! It kind of amazed me and I bought them on the spot (I really could have used frames like this when I was a kid). After looking on the Web, I _think_ they're made from some sort of nickel-titanium alloy, but I'm not sure. Does anyone know what type of alloy this is and what other applications it may be being used for? BTW, now that I have new glasses and a new monitor, you can expect fewer errors in my posts. Keep in mind the old saying, " you can expect in one hand and . . .". R, Tom Q |
#2
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
I don;t know a thing about what alloys the frames may be made of buy 9 out of 10 times when I bust a pair and take them to be repaired, it always seems like they can't ever get them fixed. I know through the years that I have tried numerous things to fix busted frames and never had success or very rarely at all. Just last week or so I drug out my favorite latest pair of glasses that I broke a month ago, and decided to see what I could do with them. I tried various solders and fluzes, no luck. I then tried some fine wire filler that a friend gave me to a while back that he uses to braze or silver solder carbide onto steel and also for brazing bandsaw blades. Used the smallest tip on my Prestolite torch and viola, the factory could not have made a better joint. Now I too am happy that I can see again. I was tempted to buy a pair of the frames like you described, but the place I had no choice in using for my glasses due to it being the only place locally that was covered by my insurance was just too high of $$ for me, but the more I look at it in the long run, it can save money. Frames are always the weakest link, and as far as fashion goes, I wore the standard issue birth control glasses for close to 30 years while in the military, so style does nothing for me, as its usually the dogs and the wife that sees me all the time anyhow. Too bad they don't make car fenders and body panels out of that stuff! On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 15:52:41 -0400, Tom Quackenbush wrote: === I just picked up my new eyeglasses (quoting Errol, "WooHoo!!!" - I ===can see again). The frames are a from a model line called "Flexon, by ===Marchon". === === Now, I don't pay a whole lot of attention to eyeglass frames, I ===don't have a clue what's stylish, etc. When I told the salesman I ===wanted something sturdy, he walked over, picked up a pair of these ===frames & twisted them beyond recognition. When he released his grip, ===they popped right back to their original shape! It kind of amazed me ===and I bought them on the spot (I really could have used frames like ===this when I was a kid). === === After looking on the Web, I _think_ they're made from some sort of ===nickel-titanium alloy, but I'm not sure. === === Does anyone know what type of alloy this is and what other ===applications it may be being used for? === === BTW, now that I have new glasses and a new monitor, you can expect ===fewer errors in my posts. Keep in mind the old saying, " you can ===expect in one hand and . . .". === ===R, ===Tom Q Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. |
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
Tom Quackenbush wrote: (clip) When he released his grip, they popped right back to their original shape! (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^ One feature I absolutely insist on in my glasses is the spring-hinge. If you pull the temples on my glasses away from each other, instead of destroying the hinges, you get "overtravel." And when the temples are released, they go back to position with no damage. I wish that would help me see better, but it doesn't. G |
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
"Tom Quackenbush" wrote in message
... I just picked up my new eyeglasses (quoting Errol, "WooHoo!!!" - I can see again). The frames are a from a model line called "Flexon, by Marchon". Now, I don't pay a whole lot of attention to eyeglass frames, I don't have a clue what's stylish, etc. When I told the salesman I wanted something sturdy, he walked over, picked up a pair of these frames & twisted them beyond recognition. When he released his grip, they popped right back to their original shape! It kind of amazed me and I bought them on the spot (I really could have used frames like this when I was a kid). After looking on the Web, I _think_ they're made from some sort of nickel-titanium alloy, but I'm not sure. Does anyone know what type of alloy this is and what other applications it may be being used for? BTW, now that I have new glasses and a new monitor, you can expect fewer errors in my posts. Keep in mind the old saying, " you can expect in one hand and . . .". R, Tom Q Flexon is a binary nickel-titanium shape-memory alloy that exhibits an odd property called pseudoelasticity. One-way thermal shape-memory and pseudoelasticity go hand-in-hand. If you want to know more about these interesting materials, look up pseudoelasticity on Google. I checked, plenty of info is there. In 1980, I wrote a report about the copper-alloy shape-memory alloys, which have similar behavior. They were being used to make self-shrinking tubing joints, vent actuators for greenhouses, and several other off-the-wall applications. At that time I expected to see a lot more new applications coming along. There haven't been many, but the pseudoelasticity, rather than the thermal shape-memory, seems to be the attractive feature these days. A good discussion of thermal shape-memory alloys is available at: http://www.sma-inc.com/SMAPaper.html It doesn't include much if anything on pseudoelasticity, however. There's a brief discussion of the latter at: http://www.mete.metu.edu.tr/Faciliti...ext/Pseudo.htm ....but you'll find more if you look into it on Google. They're a bitch to machine, BTW. -- Ed Huntress (remove "3" from email address for email reply) |
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 15:52:41 -0400, Tom Quackenbush wrote:
After looking on the Web, I _think_ they're made from some sort of nickel-titanium alloy, but I'm not sure. Does anyone know what type of alloy this is and what other applications it may be being used for? I think you have eyeglass frames made from NiTiNOL. That's a "memory shape" alloy of Ti and Nickel developed by the Naval Ordinance Labs (NiTiNOL)(defense department). The plastic property shown in your eyeglass frame is unique to that material (NiTiNOL). Incidently, the temperature that the material behaves like a spring and has "memory" can be set to different points. Your glasses are set for normal "room temp". It could set so that you mangle the frame, then "repair" it by dipping in boiling (or very hot) water. The medical industry uses NiTiNol for stents and the like. The place I worked at used NiTiNol as a frame for a filter that is inserted into your aorta (major vessel coming off your heart) during cardiac surgery. The frame and filter material was drawn back into a syringe looking device and deployed into your aorta. Once deployed, it "sprang" into shape filling the interior circumferance of your aorta. It was then drawn back into the syringe at the appropriate time for removal. Basically, any spring tempered material can do the job, but NiTiNol also has positive biocompatability properties. Most spring materials have too much iron and carbon and would react adversely in the blood. It would rust, basically. -- Skuke Reverse the domain name to send email |
#6
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:43:35 GMT, Ed Huntress wrote:
They're a bitch to machine, BTW. I didn't think it was any worse than, say, 316 SST. Not a day at the beach, but it certainly could have been a tougher to machine. That being said, I also don't recall which "flavor" I was cutting. -- Skuke Reverse the domain name to send email |
#7
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
"skuke" wrote in message
... On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:43:35 GMT, Ed Huntress wrote: They're a bitch to machine, BTW. I didn't think it was any worse than, say, 316 SST. Not a day at the beach, but it certainly could have been a tougher to machine. If you don't think 316 is bad, you're a better man than me, Skuke. g I do not like machining 300-Series stainless. It brings back ugly memories of drilling 304 and 316 for days with a Herbert turret lathe, making sure my concentration never broke and that I kept the pressure on. I was speaking from experience only with the copper-based shape-memory alloys, however. The Copper Council gave me some pieces of that when I was working on an article, and I turned some in my South Bend lathe. It was like aluminum-bronze from hell. Ed Huntress |
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
Tom Quackenbush wrote:
I just picked up my new eyeglasses (quoting Errol, "WooHoo!!!" - I can see again). The frames are a from a model line called "Flexon, by Marchon". If you are rough on frames, as I am, the Flexons are a very good deal. Previously, a frame would last me about a year. I'd get frequent headaches from the frame being bent. I have 2 sets of glasses with Flexon frames. One is about 7 years old and the other 2. The 7 year old frame has most of the finish rubbed off, but is still in good mechanical shape. |
#9
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:43:35 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: Flexon is a binary nickel-titanium shape-memory alloy that exhibits an odd property called pseudoelasticity. I'm not familiar with the meaning of binary in this context. Two element alloy? One-way thermal shape-memory and pseudoelasticity go hand-in-hand. If you want to know more about these interesting materials, look up pseudoelasticity on Google. I checked, plenty of info is there. In 1980, I wrote a report about the copper-alloy shape-memory alloys, which have similar behavior. They were being used to make self-shrinking tubing joints, vent actuators for greenhouses, and several other off-the-wall applications. At that time I expected to see a lot more new applications coming along. There haven't been many, but the pseudoelasticity, rather than the thermal shape-memory, seems to be the attractive feature these days. A good discussion of thermal shape-memory alloys is available at: http://www.sma-inc.com/SMAPaper.html It doesn't include much if anything on pseudoelasticity, however. There's a brief discussion of the latter at: http://www.mete.metu.edu.tr/Faciliti...ext/Pseudo.htm ...but you'll find more if you look into it on Google. They're a bitch to machine, BTW. At $200/pair, I probably won't be modifying them for awhile (a year, anyway). g I thought you were supposed to be getting some work done, not playing around on Usenet? g Seriously, thanks for the info and the links. Good luck with your computers. R, Tom Q. p.s. TSS is very, very good. Thank you. I have more questions now than before. Expect to be peppered after I reread it & after you get your work done. |
#10
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:53:32 -0700, skuke wrote:
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 15:52:41 -0400, Tom Quackenbush wrote: After looking on the Web, I _think_ they're made from some sort of nickel-titanium alloy, but I'm not sure. Does anyone know what type of alloy this is and what other applications it may be being used for? I think you have eyeglass frames made from NiTiNOL. That's a "memory shape" alloy of Ti and Nickel developed by the Naval Ordinance Labs (NiTiNOL)(defense department). The plastic property shown in your eyeglass frame is unique to that material (NiTiNOL). Incidently, the temperature that the material behaves like a spring and has "memory" can be set to different points. Your glasses are set for normal "room temp". It could set so that you mangle the frame, then "repair" it by dipping in boiling (or very hot) water. I have a vague recollection of NiTiNOL (I think), used like an artificial muscle (not for people, for very small machines)? Thermal cycles were used to force it to expand and contract. The medical industry uses NiTiNol for stents and the like. The place I worked at used NiTiNol as a frame for a filter that is inserted into your aorta (major vessel coming off your heart) during cardiac surgery. The frame and filter material was drawn back into a syringe looking device and deployed into your aorta. Once deployed, it "sprang" into shape filling the interior circumferance of your aorta. It was then drawn back into the syringe at the appropriate time for removal. Basically, any spring tempered material can do the job, but NiTiNol also has positive biocompatability properties. Most spring materials have too much iron and carbon and would react adversely in the blood. It would rust, basically. Wow, good info. Thank you. R, Tom Q. |
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:23:02 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote: Tom Quackenbush wrote: (clip) When he released his grip, they popped right back to their original shape! (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^ One feature I absolutely insist on in my glasses is the spring-hinge. If you pull the temples on my glasses away from each other, instead of destroying the hinges, you get "overtravel." And when the temples are released, they go back to position with no damage. I wish that would help me see better, but it doesn't. G The spring-hinge idea sounds pretty good. I should have researched eyeglass frames before I bought mine (I did, a little, but not like I was going to buy something really important, like a welder g). If you get a chance, check out the Flexon frames, they're very cool (but maybe not cost-efficient - if it turns out they're not, don't feel obligated to tell me g). R, Tom Q. |
#12
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
"Tom Quackenbush" wrote in message
... On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:43:35 GMT, "Ed Huntress" wrote: Flexon is a binary nickel-titanium shape-memory alloy that exhibits an odd property called pseudoelasticity. I'm not familiar with the meaning of binary in this context. Two element alloy? Yup. That fancy name for it comes into play only because the properties we're talking about involve phase changes, and they're characteristically different for binary alloy systems versus ternary, etc., alloys. I shouldn't have used the term here because it's only confusing and not necessary to understanding how the properties work. I thought you were supposed to be getting some work done, not playing around on Usenet? g Seriously, thanks for the info and the links. Good luck with your computers. At the end of the work day today, I will put in the floppy disk with Overkill on it, and down she goes. I'll have email on another computer but no newsreader for a while. If you can get a sample of shape-memory alloy somewhere, it's a lot of fun to play with. It's as entertaining as Silly Putty. p.s. TSS is very, very good. Thank you. I have more questions now than before. Expect to be peppered after I reread it & after you get your work done. Jim Rozen can step in and help. Ed Huntress |
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
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#14
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:10:10 GMT, Ed Huntress wrote:
I didn't think it was any worse than, say, 316 SST. Not a day at the beach, but it certainly could have been a tougher to machine. If you don't think 316 is bad, you're a better man than me, Skuke. Thanks, but I doubt it. It's just all kinda relative after spending time machining waspalloy, hastalloy... synthetic ruby...uglynium. I was speaking from experience only with the copper-based shape-memory alloys, Do you know what elements where in the copper based stuff? I would think (gooeyness aside) that it would be easier to machine than anything with lots of Nickel (or even Ti) in it. It was like aluminum-bronze from hell. LOL, No, that would be the aluminum armor plating. We got some by mistake and I started to cut the stuff. It was like a 2000 series Al but VERY plastic. It was hard to get a clean chip since the stuff just "oozed" out of the way. I guess that's why it made good armor plating. ...just slow down the projectile and dissipate the energy rather than stop it with "brute force" hardness. -- Skuke Reverse the domain name to send email |
#15
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 17:19:34 -0400, Tom Quackenbush wrote:
I have a vague recollection of NiTiNOL (I think), used like an artificial muscle (not for people, for very small machines)? Thermal cycles were used to force it to expand and contract. Sounds like a good application for it. I don't think it would be an efficient use of the energy (to thermal cycle), but the material could make a good "motor" or "muscle" in tiny machines. -- Skuke Reverse the domain name to send email |
#16
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:28:59 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: SNIP I'm not familiar with the meaning of binary in this context. Two element alloy? Yup. That fancy name for it comes into play only because the properties we're talking about involve phase changes, and they're characteristically different for binary alloy systems versus ternary, etc., alloys. I shouldn't have used the term here because it's only confusing and not necessary to understanding how the properties work. SNIP No, I'm glad you mentioned (and explained) it. Did I mention that "confusing" is my specialty? Well, actually it's "confused", but that's pretty close. g R, Tom Q. |
#17
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
"skuke" wrote in message
.. . On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:10:10 GMT, Ed Huntress wrote: I didn't think it was any worse than, say, 316 SST. Not a day at the beach, but it certainly could have been a tougher to machine. If you don't think 316 is bad, you're a better man than me, Skuke. Thanks, but I doubt it. It's just all kinda relative after spending time machining waspalloy, hastalloy... synthetic ruby...uglynium. You must have done something real bad to get those jobs. g I was speaking from experience only with the copper-based shape-memory alloys, Do you know what elements where in the copper based stuff? I would think (gooeyness aside) that it would be easier to machine than anything with lots of Nickel (or even Ti) in it. The two systems of shape-memory, copper-based alloys are CuZnAl and CuAlNi, although there are other things in them, in small amounts. I don't remember which one I had. It was over 20 years ago. Ed Huntress |
#18
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:11:48 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote: Tom Quackenbush wrote: I just picked up my new eyeglasses (quoting Errol, "WooHoo!!!" - I can see again). The frames are a from a model line called "Flexon, by Marchon". If you are rough on frames, as I am, the Flexons are a very good deal. Previously, a frame would last me about a year. I'd get frequent headaches from the frame being bent. I have 2 sets of glasses with Flexon frames. One is about 7 years old and the other 2. The 7 year old frame has most of the finish rubbed off, but is still in good mechanical shape. Thanks, Jim. That makes me feel better about my impulse purchase (I usually don't do that, but glasses that you can crush in your fist - how could anyone resist that?). R, Tom Q. |
#19
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
In article , Tom Quackenbush wrote:
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:11:48 -0700, Jim Stewart wrote: Tom Quackenbush wrote: I just picked up my new eyeglasses (quoting Errol, "WooHoo!!!" - I can see again). The frames are a from a model line called "Flexon, by Marchon". If you are rough on frames, as I am, the Flexons are a very good deal. i have a pair of "Mario" black frames that have lasted over 5yrs now, the lenses are all scratched up but i hate to change. these are made in Japan and the black finish is like new. the rubber ear things are gone but the temples are flexible enough that i they are still just a comfortable w/o. --Loren Previously, a frame would last me about a year. I'd get frequent headaches from the frame being bent. I have 2 sets of glasses with Flexon frames. One is about 7 years old and the other 2. The 7 year old frame has most of the finish rubbed off, but is still in good mechanical shape. Thanks, Jim. That makes me feel better about my impulse purchase (I usually don't do that, but glasses that you can crush in your fist - how could anyone resist that?). R, Tom Q. |
#20
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
Roy wrote: (clip) I then tried some fine wire filler that a friend gave me to a while back that he uses to braze or silver solder carbide onto steel(clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Never mind about your glasses! Let's find out more about that fine wire filler. |
#21
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
In article ,
Tom Quackenbush wrote: On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:23:02 GMT, "Leo Lichtman" wrote: Tom Quackenbush wrote: (clip) When he released his grip, they popped right back to their original shape! (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^ One feature I absolutely insist on in my glasses is the spring-hinge. If you pull the temples on my glasses away from each other, instead of destroying the hinges, you get "overtravel." And when the temples are released, they go back to position with no damage. [ ... ] The spring-hinge idea sounds pretty good. I should have researched eyeglass frames before I bought mine (I did, a little, but not like I was going to buy something really important, like a welder g). If you get a chance, check out the Flexon frames, they're very cool (but maybe not cost-efficient - if it turns out they're not, don't feel obligated to tell me g). What I did, when I last needed glasses, was to ask specifically for safety glasses. This limits the choice of frames to a lot fewer. and what I have are titanium frames, with the spring hinges. For safety glasses, the assembled glasses/frames combination is tested by dropping a large steel ball from a prescribed distance onto the lenses. If they survive that, they should survive the task of protecting your eyes -- at least within reason. (E.g. Don't stand in front of a 30-06 and expect the bullet to bounce off the lenses. :-) And -- I think that it is near time to do it again -- the point of optimum focus is drifting closer. :-( Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#22
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 00:56:14 GMT, Loren Coe wrote:
i have a pair of "Mario" black frames that have lasted over 5yrs now, the lenses are all scratched up but i hate to change. these are made in Japan and the black finish is like new. the rubber ear things are gone but the temples are flexible enough that i they are still just a comfortable w/o. I've had my optometrist replace just the lenses (new prescription) into old frames I really liked. He didn't come out and say it, but I think he didn't really want to do it since frame sales is probably how they make a lot of their money. Anyhow, I got it done with no complaints from the doc. -- Skuke Reverse the domain name to send email |
#23
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
In article , DoN. Nichols wrote:
.... and what I have are titanium frames, with the spring hinges. .... And -- I think that it is near time to do it again -- the point of optimum focus is drifting closer. :-( Enjoy, DoN. my problem of late is that my eyes tire thruout the day, changing my needed correction. rather than tri-focals, i have two pair of bifocals one for keyboard/display distance, the other for reading and distance. in the am, i cannot read close with the first pair, but can in the evening. by then, the distance correction is weak on the 2nd pair. i am not sure tri-focals would help. --Loren |
#24
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
I've heard that if you leave the swarf too close to the finished piece, you
get bar stock again. Clean up quick! -- Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways) "Ed Huntress" wrote in message . net... They're a bitch to machine, BTW. |
#25
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
Ed Huntress wrote:
It was like aluminum-bronze from hell. I'm puzzled. I've built up some shafts and a gear using AMPCO 200 Al-bronze with TIG. I would have liked it to flow better but it machined very nicely. What's up? Ted |
#26
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OT, sorta - Eyeglass frames, what alloy?
"Ted Edwards" wrote in message
... Ed Huntress wrote: It was like aluminum-bronze from hell. I'm puzzled. I've built up some shafts and a gear using AMPCO 200 Al-bronze with TIG. I would have liked it to flow better but it machined very nicely. What's up? Ted (Wow. That was the most painless installation of a cable modem and software I've ever done.) Anyway, the bearing types of aluminum bronze, ranging from 5% to 8% aluminum, are considered to be among of the nastier alloys to machine. Their machinability is rated at 20% of the rating for yellow brass, and they're notorious for producing tough, stringy chips and miserable finishes. They require good lubrication. Straight oil is best. I don't know how you got off easy, but count your lucky stars. Ed Huntress |
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