I'm trying to find out *for sure* wha hte alloy mix is of the
fixturing alloy sold by ENCO. They say it expands by .0002"/inch when
it solidifies and that it melts at 158°F. In the machinist's handbook
they describe an alloy that melts at 158°F made of Bismuth, tin, lead
and cadmium but they don't specify that it expands on solidification.

Anyone have some knowledge about this?

And where I can find some cadmium cheap?

John

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On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:37:28 GMT, (John Flanagan) wrote:
And where I can find some cadmium cheap?

EPA Superfund site. Cadmium fumes are seriously toxic.

Gary

John Flanagan wrote:

I'm trying to find out *for sure* wha hte alloy mix is of the
fixturing alloy sold by ENCO. They say it expands by .0002"/inch when
it solidifies and that it melts at 158°F. In the machinist's handbook
they describe an alloy that melts at 158°F made of Bismuth, tin, lead
and cadmium but they don't specify that it expands on solidification.

Anyone have some knowledge about this?

I do know that back in the days of metal type, antimony was added to
type metal to make it expand on solidification. Learned that in Jumior
High Print Shop a loooooooong time ago. :-)

Ted

Search www.mcmaster.com for "cerro alloys". They all expand various amounts
upon solidification. Specify which alloy you want and I may have the
expansion data in the my shop.

Randy


"John Flanagan" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to find out *for sure* wha hte alloy mix is of the
fixturing alloy sold by ENCO. They say it expands by .0002"/inch when
it solidifies and that it melts at 158°F. In the machinist's handbook
they describe an alloy that melts at 158°F made of Bismuth, tin, lead
and cadmium but they don't specify that it expands on solidification.

Anyone have some knowledge about this?

And where I can find some cadmium cheap?

John

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email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:20:03 GMT, (Gary Coffman)
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:37:28 GMT, (John Flanagan) wrote:
And where I can find some cadmium cheap?

EPA Superfund site. Cadmium fumes are seriously toxic.

You ain't kidding. But the low melt temp alloys never get hot enough
to fume. The one I'm after melts at 158°F.

John

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On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:58:51 GMT, "Randal O'Brian"
wrote:

Search www.mcmaster.com for "cerro alloys". They all expand various amounts
upon solidification. Specify which alloy you want and I may have the
expansion data in the my shop.

I can find the alloy through ENCO if I wanted. The reason I ask for a
source of cadmium is so I don't end up paying $35/lb for it.

John

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On 15 Jul 2003 09:15:16 -0700, (Stan Schaefer)
wrote:

(John Flanagan) wrote in message ...
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:58:51 GMT, "Randal O'Brian"
wrote:

Search www.mcmaster.com for "cerro alloys". They all expand various amounts
upon solidification. Specify which alloy you want and I may have the
expansion data in the my shop.

I can find the alloy through ENCO if I wanted. The reason I ask for a
source of cadmium is so I don't end up paying $35/lb for it.

John

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I think you'll find that making your own low-melting alloys will be a
lot more costly than you think. Bismuth in particular isn't cheap
stuff. Now if you're making the stuff up in hundred-weight lots, you
might be able to get a price break on the ingredients. Cerrosafe
isn't $35/lb if you get it from Brownells, if you need something lower
temperature, you'll pay more, of course. The lower-melting point
alloys tend to have more exotic ingredients the lower in temperature
that you go.

The lead and tin I have. Bismuth I can get for $10-$15/lb. Which
works out to around $6/lb in the alloy (50% Bismuth). The cadmium I
don't know where to find.

The only sources of small amounts of cadmium that I know of are the
lab suppliers and they might be getting a little reluctant to do
business with a private citizen about now. They also tend to be
really high priced, even for low-purity stuff. Pure cadmium doesn't
have a lot of uses by itself, not like lead, it's usually plated on
items or used as an alloy constituent. Not really available on the
scrap market, either.

Somebody's got it somewhere I'll find it sooner or later, I'm in no
hurry. I made a rocket nozzle and would like to make it thinner so
filling the interior up with this material would really do the trick.

John

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In article ,
John Flanagan wrote:
On 15 Jul 2003 09:15:16 -0700, (Stan Schaefer)
wrote:

[ ... ]

I think you'll find that making your own low-melting alloys will be a
lot more costly than you think. Bismuth in particular isn't cheap

[ ... ]

The lead and tin I have. Bismuth I can get for $10-$15/lb. Which
works out to around $6/lb in the alloy (50% Bismuth). The cadmium I
don't know where to find.

The only sources of small amounts of cadmium that I know of are the
lab suppliers and they might be getting a little reluctant to do

[ ... ]

Somebody's got it somewhere I'll find it sooner or later, I'm in no
hurry. I made a rocket nozzle and would like to make it thinner so
filling the interior up with this material would really do the trick.

I *hope* that you mean to use this as support while spinning the
nozzle down smaller. The thought of a nozzle whose contour was being
changed by a layer of low-melting alloy strikes me as rather exciting in
service, shall we say? :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 16 Jul 2003 00:19:52 -0400, (DoN. Nichols)
wrote:

In article ,
John Flanagan wrote:
On 15 Jul 2003 09:15:16 -0700, (Stan Schaefer)
wrote:

[ ... ]

I think you'll find that making your own low-melting alloys will be a
lot more costly than you think. Bismuth in particular isn't cheap

[ ... ]

The lead and tin I have. Bismuth I can get for $10-$15/lb. Which
works out to around $6/lb in the alloy (50% Bismuth). The cadmium I
don't know where to find.

The only sources of small amounts of cadmium that I know of are the
lab suppliers and they might be getting a little reluctant to do

[ ... ]

Somebody's got it somewhere I'll find it sooner or later, I'm in no
hurry. I made a rocket nozzle and would like to make it thinner so
filling the interior up with this material would really do the trick.

I *hope* that you mean to use this as support while spinning the
nozzle down smaller. The thought of a nozzle whose contour was being
changed by a layer of low-melting alloy strikes me as rather exciting in
service, shall we say? :-)

Yea, that's the idea. It's only about .062" thick now and it rings
like crazy while turning (I do mean loud). I rammed a paper towel in
it to help dampen the vibration but this stuff would work much better.
Plus I don't think I'd dare go too much thinner without better
interior support than paper.

John

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On 16 Jul 2003 00:19:52 -0400, (DoN. Nichols)
wrote something
.......and in reply I say!:

Wooooossshhhhhshhhhhhhhhhhh h h h h sssssss....clonk!


I *hope* that you mean to use this as support while spinning the
nozzle down smaller. The thought of a nozzle whose contour was being
changed by a layer of low-melting alloy strikes me as rather exciting in
service, shall we say? :-)

************************************************** ****************************************
Huh! Old age!. You may hate it, but let me tell you, you can't get by for long without it!

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music
Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email
!!
")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/

On 26 Jul 2003 19:41:14 -0500, Notho wrote:


Brownells sells Cerrosafe for about 18.00 a pound....

www.brownells.com

It shrinks so I would loose support. I need something with a slight
swell after solidifying.

John

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John Flanagan wrote:

It shrinks so I would loose support. I need something with a slight
swell after solidifying.

Does anybody still use linotypes today? You used to be able to get old
slugs of type metal. This expands slightly when freezing.

Ted

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:04:34 GMT, (John
Flanagan) wrote:

On 26 Jul 2003 19:41:14 -0500, Notho wrote:


Brownells sells Cerrosafe for about 18.00 a pound....

www.brownells.com

It shrinks so I would loose support. I need something with a slight
swell after solidifying.

That would be one of the other Cerro alloys, Cerrobend I think it is.



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There are a number of different Cerro-bismuth alloys. All of them expand
varying amounts when solid. www.mcmaster.com sells them.

Randy


"Jack Erbes" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:04:34 GMT, (John
Flanagan) wrote:

On 26 Jul 2003 19:41:14 -0500, Notho wrote:


Brownells sells Cerrosafe for about 18.00 a pound....

www.brownells.com

It shrinks so I would loose support. I need something with a slight
swell after solidifying.

That would be one of the other Cerro alloys, Cerrobend I think it is.



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(DoN. Nichols) wrote in message ...

I think you'll find that making your own low-melting alloys will be a
lot more costly than you think. Bismuth in particular isn't cheap

I think I've seen the 158-degree stuff as low as $14/lb in 20-lb lots.

If you aren't bending the alloy (I was) I'd consider the tin-bismuth
almost zero-dimensional change version as any chips you accidentally
create will be less toxic without the cadmium.

I think I've seen that for as little as $7/lb, or you might be able to
make it.

If you cast it with the open end of the device up, I think the
material will flow in such a way that any shrinkage will result in a
depression in the center rather than pulling away from the walls.

Take light enough cuts that you don't melt it!

Chris

(this email address doesn't work)

On 30 Jul 2003 13:17:23 -0700, (Chris Stratton)
wrote:

(DoN. Nichols) wrote in message ...

I think you'll find that making your own low-melting alloys will be a
lot more costly than you think. Bismuth in particular isn't cheap

I think I've seen the 158-degree stuff as low as $14/lb in 20-lb lots.

If you aren't bending the alloy (I was) I'd consider the tin-bismuth
almost zero-dimensional change version as any chips you accidentally
create will be less toxic without the cadmium.

I think I've seen that for as little as $7/lb, or you might be able to
make it.

If you cast it with the open end of the device up, I think the
material will flow in such a way that any shrinkage will result in a
depression in the center rather than pulling away from the walls.

Yea, someone else mentioned the Cerrosafe zero shrink alloy. I may go
with this if it's something that doesn't require cadmium as you
mentioned. I have a lot of lead/tin alloy sitting around from my
autobody leading days so all I'd need is some bismuth which is easy
enough to find. I'd just have to cast and wait an hour or so.

Take light enough cuts that you don't melt it!

Ha!, that's true never thought of that!

John

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On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:27:09 GMT, Ted Edwards wrote:

John Flanagan wrote:

It shrinks so I would loose support. I need something with a slight
swell after solidifying.

Does anybody still use linotypes today? You used to be able to get old
slugs of type metal. This expands slightly when freezing.

You don't know that alloy composition do you? I think you're dating
yourself here :^).

John

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