On 21 Jul 2005 08:52:32 -0700, "DL" wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/7tjzj

Can you say "inflation".

Nobody left to loan the neocons any more money for their
deficits it seems.
Now they will call the loans due.
--
Cliff

And you're sure about this about as sure as you have been about
everything else, right?

What do I get when you're proven to be an idiot again as you always
have been?

ral

Cliff wrote:

On 21 Jul 2005 08:52:32 -0700, "DL" wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/7tjzj

Can you say "inflation".

Nobody left to loan the neocons any more money for their
deficits it seems.
Now they will call the loans due.
--
Cliff

Cliff wrote:
On 21 Jul 2005 08:52:32 -0700, "DL" wrote:


http://tinyurl.com/7tjzj

Can you say "inflation".


Nobody left to loan the neocons any more money for their
deficits it seems.
Now they will call the loans due.

More left wing bull****. I knew the Bush haters would try to twist this
as being "bad" for our economy, when in reality it is good. US exports
to China will increase, bringing new jobs, a stronger dollar, and a
lower trade deficit. This is great news for the strengthening American
economy ... suck it up Bush haters, the economic recovery is continuing
at a record pace.

"Graham Wellington" wrote in message
nk.net...
Cliff wrote:
On 21 Jul 2005 08:52:32 -0700, "DL" wrote:


http://tinyurl.com/7tjzj

Can you say "inflation".


Nobody left to loan the neocons any more money for their
deficits it seems.
Now they will call the loans due.

More left wing bull****. I knew the Bush haters would try to twist this
as being "bad" for our economy, when in reality it is good. US exports
to China will increase, bringing new jobs, a stronger dollar, and a
lower trade deficit. This is great news for the strengthening American
economy

This seems to me to be the likeliest result. It may cause some inflationary
pressure, but the decreased disparity in the balance of trade with China
should be good for the economy.

Jeff

All I know is that prices will be going up at Harbor Freight...

"Jeffrey McCann" wrote in message
...

"Graham Wellington" wrote in message
nk.net...
Cliff wrote:
On 21 Jul 2005 08:52:32 -0700, "DL" wrote:


http://tinyurl.com/7tjzj

Can you say "inflation".


Nobody left to loan the neocons any more money for their
deficits it seems.
Now they will call the loans due.

More left wing bull****. I knew the Bush haters would try to twist this
as being "bad" for our economy, when in reality it is good. US exports
to China will increase, bringing new jobs, a stronger dollar, and a
lower trade deficit. This is great news for the strengthening American
economy

This seems to me to be the likeliest result. It may cause some
inflationary
pressure, but the decreased disparity in the balance of trade with China
should be good for the economy.

Jeff

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:22:28 GMT, (Richard
Lewis) wrote:

And you're sure about this about as sure as you have been about
everything else, right?

What do I get when you're proven to be an idiot again as you always
have been?

ral

Cliff wrote:

On 21 Jul 2005 08:52:32 -0700, "DL" wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/7tjzj

Can you say "inflation".

Nobody left to loan the neocons any more money for their
deficits it seems.
Now they will call the loans due.

One of the first payments:
China National Offshore Oil Corp to buy Unocal Corp
and or Marathon?

China has lots & lots of US dollars to spend buying
things .... that's calling the loans due g.
Just like getting IBM's PC business & lots more.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2201/

Enjoy.
--
Cliff

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:14:32 GMT, the renowned "Emmo"
wrote:

All I know is that prices will be going up at Harbor Freight...

They'll probably just eat it (so far).

Gas prices in China should be on the way down.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

This was just eye wash to let the Shrub claim he is doing something. A 2%
adjustment when the RMB is 30% to 40% undervalued will not mean anything at
all. Now that it is pegged to a bundle of currencies the US$ would have to
crash before it would make any difference. Which may happen. With the
deficits we have been running the dollar has already lost 30% of its value
against the Euro and the Pound. Before the Shrub's tax cut one Euro was
worth $1.17. Today it is worth $0.82. For the RMB to be at its proper
value the US$ would have to drop to $0.50 against the Euro.

Pretty soon we will not be able to afford anything but the cheap **** from
China.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Jeffrey McCann" wrote

This seems to me to be the likeliest result. It may cause some
inflationary
pressure, but the decreased disparity in the balance of trade with China
should be good for the economy.

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:34:15 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

With the
deficits we have been running the dollar has already lost 30% of its value
against the Euro and the Pound. Before the Shrub's tax cut one Euro was
worth $1.17. Today it is worth $0.82.

I smell a small math problem.
--
Cliff

Graham Wellington wrote:

Cliff wrote:

On 21 Jul 2005 08:52:32 -0700, "DL" wrote:


http://tinyurl.com/7tjzj

Can you say "inflation".



Nobody left to loan the neocons any more money for their
deficits it seems.
Now they will call the loans due.


More left wing bull****. I knew the Bush haters would try to twist
this as being "bad" for our economy, when in reality it is good. US
exports to China will increase, bringing new jobs, a stronger dollar,
and a lower trade deficit. This is great news for the strengthening
American economy ... suck it up Bush haters, the economic recovery is
continuing at a record pace.


There is indication that there was a specific purpose of strengthening
the Chinese dollar relative to the US and it's ever falling value.
China *Needs* energy resources, especially oil..this puts them on a far
better playing field to purchase the oil that we are currently sucking.
The effect on trade deficits will probably be minimal but it puts them
first in line to be able to bid high on the oil that the US is currently
getting.

This is a REAL threat to our national security. The Bush policies are
to suck more oil wherever they can get it.....when we are second in line
(along with that tanker of oil, we'll send you a few missiles to sweeten
the deal) or the dollar devaluates, making oil prices rise even more, we
are in deep doo-doo. Bush and most of his administration are so knee
deep in crude that they can't see anything other than the billions in
profit from maintaining the status quo.

NASA....should be National Atmospheric and SCIENCE administration with a
mandate to increase technologies of energy efficiency, seek alternate
energies and therefore increase national security through increasing
independence from outside energy sources. I'd rather **** billions down
a long shot energy toilet (which may have a stupendous reward) than ****
em away going to Mars or on an outdated space tenement.

Koz

On 21 Jul 2005 22:38:08 GMT, the renowned D Murphy
wrote:

Cliff wrote in news:4h10e1dro8n9g08eojpu7q6scknsulfico@
4ax.com:

On 21 Jul 2005 08:52:32 -0700, "DL" wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/7tjzj

Can you say "inflation".

Nobody left to loan the neocons any more money for their
deficits it seems.
Now they will call the loans due.

Hmmm. The Cinese are going to take a 2%+ hit on hundreds of billions of
dollars just to make everyone happy. I'm sure they'll keep on loaning us
money to buy their cheap crap. What other choice do they have? Europe is an
economic black hole, and they aren't likely to open their markets up to
cheap Cinese goods.

The EU is currently a bigger market for Chinese goods than the US
(but the US is a somewhat bigger market than Japan).

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/finan...=apn_home_down


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Richard Lewis wrote:
And you're sure about this about as sure as you have been about
everything else, right?

What do I get when you're proven to be an idiot again as you always
have been?

ral



Here is more proof that Cliff is an idiot.

First:

Cliff uses the word idiot on such a frequent basis that he must know
what he has become. Cliff often brings up his massive reading
comprehension problem. His health is in question as he now seems to
live on snickers bars and is totally obsessed with them.

Second:

Cliff can't even figure out / accept that Tesla's lab still exists.

http://www.teslascience.org/

"Welcome to the home page of The Tesla Wardenclyffe Project.
Our mission is the preservation and adaptive reuse of Wardenclyffe,
the century-old laboratory of electrical pioneer Nikola Tesla
located in Shoreham, Long Island, New York."

"We are presently working in cooperation with the Long Island based
group Friends of Science East, to preserve this one remaining monument
to Nikola Tesla's engineering legacy"

"Our specific goals a

Placement of the 16 acre site on the National Register of Historic
Places

Restoration of the building and stabilization of the tower foundation
conversion of the site into a science museum complex to be known as the
Tesla Museum and Science Center at Wardenclyffe."

jon

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:FpVDe.175918$sy6.52418@lakeread04...
This was just eye wash to let the Shrub claim he is doing something. A 2%
adjustment when the RMB is 30% to 40% undervalued will not mean anything
at all. Now that it is pegged to a bundle of currencies the US$ would
have to crash before it would make any difference. Which may happen.
With the deficits we have been running the dollar has already lost 30% of
its value against the Euro and the Pound. Before the Shrub's tax cut one
Euro was worth $1.17. Today it is worth $0.82. For the RMB to be at its
proper value the US$ would have to drop to $0.50 against the Euro.

Pretty soon we will not be able to afford anything but the cheap **** from
China.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Glenn, is cutting the "Yuan" loose from the dollar a bad thing? What about
the other Chinese currency? How is it effected and how do both currencies
interact in the world economy?

Emmo wrote:
All I know is that prices will be going up at Harbor Freight...


They have changed their name to more refect the products they sell. The
new name is:

Garbage Freight.

jon

"Emmo" wrote in message
...

All I know is that prices will be going up at Harbor Freight...

Oh MY Gawd--IM SOooooo dissapointed....

Perhaps exactly the stimulus that's needed for to steer them and walmart and
many others into an out of control downward spiral towards their deaths...

--

SVL

In article , Ignoramus19508 says...

I am not terribly interested in who is to blame, although it is
impossible not to recognize that the present administration made an
unforced decision to become involved in an unneeded, expensive foreign
misadventure, as well as reduce taxes to those who supported it
financially. Something that is not affordable to the society in the
present deficit environment.

If you don't recognize who's responsible for the mess, then
there's no hope of fixing it. This is like saying, "oh well,
one of the kids crashed the family car. Let's not point
fingers and fix blame."

Wrong.

We *need* that car. We *need* to find out why they can't
drive, and make sure they don't get behind the wheel until
they prove they're skilled and responsible. And until
they've paid off the damage they've done.

Otherwise they're just going to keep right on destroying the
family property.

Basically we have a bunch of out-of-control drunk teenagers
running our country's fiscal matters.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

All I know is that if it wasn't for Harbor Freight tools, I wouldn't have no
tools at all...

Off the top of my head: drill press, horizontal bandsaw, multiple grinders,
blast cabinet, bender, ring roller, air cut-off tool, air drill, hammer
drill, rechargeable drill, palm sander, face shield, welding gloves, dead
blow hammer, sockets, IR impact driver, power planer, strap wrench, corner
clamp, welding cart, magnetic clamps, bolt cutters, letter punches,
soapstone markers, Adirondack chairs, grease gun, movers' dolly, pickax,
machete, pliers, air shear, air regulator, air hoses, hose reels, lots of
clamps, GFI outlets, ear protectors, sand blaster, two wheeler, car dollys,
floor jack, fountain pumps, flare wrenches, knee pads, and on and on...


"jon_banquer" wrote in message
oups.com...


Emmo wrote:
All I know is that prices will be going up at Harbor Freight...


They have changed their name to more refect the products they sell. The
new name is:

Garbage Freight.

jon

"Emmo" wrote in message
...
"jon_banquer" wrote in message
oups.com...


Emmo wrote:
All I know is that prices will be going up at Harbor Freight...


They have changed their name to more refect the products they sell. The
new name is:

Garbage Freight.

All I know is that if it wasn't for Harbor Freight tools, I wouldn't have
no
tools at all...

Off the top of my head: drill press, horizontal bandsaw, multiple
grinders,
blast cabinet, bender, ring roller, air cut-off tool, air drill, hammer
drill, rechargeable drill, palm sander, face shield, welding gloves, dead
blow hammer, sockets, IR impact driver, power planer, strap wrench, corner
clamp, welding cart, magnetic clamps, bolt cutters, letter punches,
soapstone markers, Adirondack chairs, grease gun, movers' dolly, pickax,
machete, pliers, air shear, air regulator, air hoses, hose reels, lots of
clamps, GFI outlets, ear protectors, sand blaster, two wheeler, car
dollys,
floor jack, fountain pumps, flare wrenches, knee pads, and on and on...



And my bets absolutely none of it has done one ****ing bit of good so far as
improving the US economy.....

The fact is more likely it has all had a net negative effect.

Do enjoy the high fuel prices and you have lots of fun if you ever need to
use these substandard 'tools' in order to make a living wage for yourself

--

SVL

Cliff wrote:
On 21 Jul 2005 08:52:32 -0700, "DL" wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/7tjzj

Can you say "inflation".

Nobody left to loan the neocons any more money for their
deficits it seems.
Now they will call the loans due.
--
Cliff


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...1/AR200507210=
2091.html

China's Currency Move

Friday, July 22, 2005; Page A22

THE UNITED States and China are at loggerheads on several fronts:
China's military buildup, its piracy of intellectual property, its
human rights abuses. But one potential flash point has been managed
successfully so far, to the credit of the Bush administration. Treasury
Secretary John W. Snow has persuaded Congress to shelve bad legislation
that would slap tariffs on China to punish it for maintaining an
undervalued currency. Meanwhile, Mr. Snow has urged the Chinese to
reform their currency policy for their own good. Yesterday China took a
first step in that direction, abandoning a decade-old policy of pegging
the yuan to the dollar.

China's move is too cautious to do more than dent its trade surplus,
much less cure the alarming U.S. trade deficit. The yuan will now be
worth 2 percent more, in dollar terms, than before the announcement;
the monthly wage of a Chinese factory worker will move from, say, $100
to $102, a trivial difference. Even so, China's announcement is
symbolically important. With China having shown itself capable of one
currency move, further adjustments now seem more likely. In time, the
policy of pegging the currency may give way to a more flexible,
market-driven "float." This is the right direction to head in. Allowing
the currency to float would strengthen China's ability to manage its
own economy, softening the recent pattern of inflationary booms
followed by painful slowdowns.


From the global perspective, the stakes are even higher. In the past
decade or so, the world has come to rely on the United States to drive
economic growth. Both the U.S. government and American consumers have
borrowed to spend lavishly, and the spending has stimulated not only
the U.S. economy but also export-driven growth elsewhere. Meanwhile,
European and Japanese demand for American goods isn't expanding fast
because those economies are sluggish. But the real puzzle is beyond
Japan, in the rest of Asia. The region grew an astonishing 8 percent
last year, a rate that would normally be expected to entail surging
demand for imports. But the Asians continued to run a large trade
surplus. Their growth was based on sizzling U.S. demand, not on demand
from their own consumers.

This is not sustainable. Americans cannot go on borrowing from Asians
to buy Asian goods forever. To fix this imbalance, Americans have to
sell more goods and Asians have to consume more. Raising the value of
Asian currencies is one mechanism to achieve this: It makes American
goods more competitive and Asian consumers richer. China's cautious
decision yesterday has already been emulated by Malaysia; other Asian
countries, which have felt unable to revalue against the dollar for
fear that they would lose competitiveness vis-=E0-vis China, may now
reconsider. Whether they do may depend on whether China builds on its
move with further revaluations in the next few months. Having taken the
first step, China's leaders must have the courage to keep walking.

:/

Emmo wrote:
All I know is that if it wasn't for Harbor Freight tools, I wouldn't have no
tools at all...

Off the top of my head: drill press, horizontal bandsaw, multiple grinders,
blast cabinet, bender, ring roller, air cut-off tool, air drill, hammer
drill, rechargeable drill, palm sander, face shield, welding gloves, dead
blow hammer, sockets, IR impact driver, power planer, strap wrench, corner
clamp, welding cart, magnetic clamps, bolt cutters, letter punches,
soapstone markers, Adirondack chairs, grease gun, movers' dolly, pickax,
machete, pliers, air shear, air regulator, air hoses, hose reels, lots of
clamps, GFI outlets, ear protectors, sand blaster, two wheeler, car dollys,
floor jack, fountain pumps, flare wrenches, knee pads, and on and on...




Why is used not an option ?

How about pawn shops ?

Newspaper ads ?

Why would anyone choose to buy IR tools at Garbage Freight ? You can
buy IR tools much cheaper on-line.

You can't make your own welding cart with the crap you got at Garbage
Freight ?

I'm sure you saved a ton on soapstone markers.... please.

jon

In article .com,
jon_banquer wrote:

Emmo wrote:
All I know is that if it wasn't for Harbor Freight tools, I wouldn't have no
tools at all...

Off the top of my head: drill press, horizontal bandsaw, multiple grinders,
blast cabinet, bender, ring roller, air cut-off tool, air drill, hammer
drill, rechargeable drill, palm sander, face shield, welding gloves, dead
blow hammer, sockets, IR impact driver, power planer, strap wrench, corner
clamp, welding cart, magnetic clamps, bolt cutters, letter punches,
soapstone markers, Adirondack chairs, grease gun, movers' dolly, pickax,
machete, pliers, air shear, air regulator, air hoses, hose reels, lots of
clamps, GFI outlets, ear protectors, sand blaster, two wheeler, car dollys,
floor jack, fountain pumps, flare wrenches, knee pads, and on and on...




Why is used not an option ?

How about pawn shops ?

Newspaper ads ?

Why would anyone choose to buy IR tools at Garbage Freight ? You can
buy IR tools much cheaper on-line.



Americans can no longer afford Harbor Freight prices. This is why the
yuan was revalued against the dollar.

Harbor Freight is moving to countries where their currency has not been
so devalued.

Maybe Iraqi ragheads will bail out the ******ized dollar.


--Tim May

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:34:15 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

This was just eye wash to let the Shrub claim he is doing something. A 2%
adjustment when the RMB is 30% to 40% undervalued will not mean anything at
all. Now that it is pegged to a bundle of currencies the US$ would have to
crash before it would make any difference. Which may happen. With the
deficits we have been running the dollar has already lost 30% of its value
against the Euro and the Pound. Before the Shrub's tax cut one Euro was
worth $1.17. Today it is worth $0.82. For the RMB to be at its proper
value the US$ would have to drop to $0.50 against the Euro.

Pretty soon we will not be able to afford anything but the cheap **** from
China.


Hey Glenny...wernt you one of the dooom and gloomers who claimed Bush
was tanking the economy?

5% unemployment...the Dept of labor says there will soon be a shortage
of skilled labor....and its all Bush's fault.

Snivel...

Snicker

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:34:15 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

This was just eye wash to let the Shrub claim he is doing something. A
2%
adjustment when the RMB is 30% to 40% undervalued will not mean anything
at
all. Now that it is pegged to a bundle of currencies the US$ would have
to
crash before it would make any difference. Which may happen. With the
deficits we have been running the dollar has already lost 30% of its
value
against the Euro and the Pound. Before the Shrub's tax cut one Euro was
worth $1.17. Today it is worth $0.82. For the RMB to be at its proper
value the US$ would have to drop to $0.50 against the Euro.

Pretty soon we will not be able to afford anything but the cheap ****
from
China.


Hey Glenny...wernt you one of the dooom and gloomers who claimed Bush
was tanking the economy?

5% unemployment...the Dept of labor says there will soon be a shortage
of skilled labor....and its all Bush's fault.

Snivel...

Snicker


Curious--is flippin burgers now being considered 'skilled' these days or not
???

--

SVL

Well, I've been out of work for 17 months. I spent the previous 23 years in
software marketing, but there isn't much call for that anymore, between open
source, Microsoft, and India. Not sure how China plays into this issue, but
I'm certainly sensitive to people losing their jobs when they vanish from
this country. I'm not so clear on what I'm going to do now, myself...

I don't think oil or the value of the dollar are very relevant though...


And my bets absolutely none of it has done one ****ing bit of good so far
as
improving the US economy.....

The fact is more likely it has all had a net negative effect.

Do enjoy the high fuel prices and you have lots of fun if you ever need to
use these substandard 'tools' in order to make a living wage for yourself

--

SVL

In article , Emmo
wrote:

Well, I've been out of work for 17 months. I spent the previous 23 years in
software marketing, but there isn't much call for that anymore, between open
source, Microsoft, and India. Not sure how China plays into this issue, but
I'm certainly sensitive to people losing their jobs when they vanish from
this country. I'm not so clear on what I'm going to do now, myself...

Flipping burgers pays $6.75. Serving double double decafes with a twist
of lemon pays $8.35, plus all the tips you can grovel for (split with
the storeowner, 30-70, of course).

If you're a negro or a Mexican, you can be paid to stay at home and
breed, watch t.v., etc.

This is the country liberals voted for.


--Tim May

Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:34:15 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:


This was just eye wash to let the Shrub claim he is doing something. A 2%
adjustment when the RMB is 30% to 40% undervalued will not mean anything at
all. Now that it is pegged to a bundle of currencies the US$ would have to
crash before it would make any difference. Which may happen. With the
deficits we have been running the dollar has already lost 30% of its value
against the Euro and the Pound. Before the Shrub's tax cut one Euro was
worth $1.17. Today it is worth $0.82. For the RMB to be at its proper
value the US$ would have to drop to $0.50 against the Euro.

Pretty soon we will not be able to afford anything but the cheap **** from
China.



Hey Glenny...wernt you one of the dooom and gloomers who claimed Bush
was tanking the economy?

5% unemployment...the Dept of labor says there will soon be a shortage
of skilled labor....and its all Bush's fault.

Snivel...

Snicker

Gunner

LOL. This thing with the Yuan is bad news for all the Bush haters. They
can't stand it when something good happens to strengthen our economy.
They want to see the economy collapse because they are all losers who
can't compete in a free market, and they are jealous of those of us who
are succeeding.These are probably the same losers who flip me off when
I'm driving around in my $72,000 customized Hummer. They can't stand to
see someone else who is more successful than they are. Well, suck it up
losers. There's plenty of money to be made in this economy, and you guys
make it easier for the rest of us. It just shows what losers you are,
that you can't be successful and make money in the wealthiest nation on
the face of the earth.

In article ,
Ignoramus19508 wrote:

Given the difficulty of reducing deficits in the present situation (a
hopeless expensive war, plundering of the budget to pay off various
constituencies etc), I cannot see anything other that fall of the
value of the dollar as being able to address the disequilibrium.

Consequently, I and my family bought a sensible quantity of euros back
in 2003.

The idea sounds attractive, but why do you trust European politicians
more than US politicians? Maybe Swiss Franks or gold?

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

On 21 Jul 2005 18:33:35 -0700, "jon_banquer"
wrote:


Richard Lewis wrote:
And you're sure about this about as sure as you have been about
everything else, right?

What do I get when you're proven to be an idiot again as you always
have been?

ral



Here is more proof that Cliff is an idiot.

First:

Cliff uses the word idiot on such a frequent basis

I can sure spot a few G.

that he must know
what he has become. Cliff often brings up his massive reading
comprehension problem.

This is bound to get good VBG.

His health is in question as he now seems to
live on snickers bars and is totally obsessed with them.

snicker

Second:

Cliff can't even figure out / accept that Tesla's lab still exists.

http://www.teslascience.org/

"Welcome to the home page of The Tesla Wardenclyffe Project.
Our mission is the preservation and adaptive reuse of Wardenclyffe,
the century-old laboratory of electrical pioneer Nikola Tesla
located in Shoreham, Long Island, New York."

The lab is long gone.
Parts of a building remain as do foundations for the long
gone tower.

"We are presently working in cooperation with the Long Island based
group Friends of Science East, to preserve this one remaining monument
to Nikola Tesla's engineering legacy"

"Our specific goals a

Placement of the 16 acre site on the National Register of Historic
Places

Restoration of the building

Oops ... there's that building again.

and stabilization of the tower foundation

Oops ... and the long gone tower's foundation ...

conversion of the site into a science museum complex to be known as the
Tesla Museum and Science Center at Wardenclyffe."

Yep. So?
No lab. No reconstructed tower. No plans. No equipment
for the "lab" either.

jon

[
Main Entry: lab·o·ra·to·ry
Pronunciation: 'la-b(&-)r&-"tOr-E, -"tor- sometimes 'la-b&(r)-" or
l&-'bor-&-", British usually l&-'bär-&-t(&-)rE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ries
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Medieval Latin laboratorium, from Latin laborare to labor,
from labor
Date: 1605
1 a : a place equipped for experimental study in a science or for
testing and analysis; broadly : a place providing opportunity for
experimentation, observation, or practice in a field of study b : a
place like a laboratory for testing, experimentation, or practice the
laboratory of the mind
2 : an academic period set aside for laboratory work
]

No equipment. No tower. All long gone. No plans either ...
Not a lab. Juat a building needing work to "restore" and an
old foundation.

What an idiot G.
--
Cliff

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:56:24 -0700, Koz
wrote:

NASA....should be National Atmospheric and SCIENCE administration with a
mandate to increase technologies of energy efficiency, seek alternate
energies

The neocons & wingers have blocked this at every turn it seems,
once you look past their smoke & newspeak.
The secret Cheney energy plan is still a deep dark secret AFAIK.

Higher oil prices do mean much higher profits for some
though ... firms like Enron was & Halliburton is, among
others.
--
Cliff

On 21 Jul 2005 21:25:04 -0700, "jon_banquer"
wrote:

How about pawn shops ?

Thinking of leaving Kinko's again?
--
Cliff

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:41:32 -0700, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:34:15 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

This was just eye wash to let the Shrub claim he is doing something. A
2%
adjustment when the RMB is 30% to 40% undervalued will not mean anything
at
all. Now that it is pegged to a bundle of currencies the US$ would have
to
crash before it would make any difference. Which may happen. With the
deficits we have been running the dollar has already lost 30% of its
value
against the Euro and the Pound. Before the Shrub's tax cut one Euro was
worth $1.17. Today it is worth $0.82. For the RMB to be at its proper
value the US$ would have to drop to $0.50 against the Euro.

Pretty soon we will not be able to afford anything but the cheap ****
from
China.


Hey Glenny...wernt you one of the dooom and gloomers who claimed Bush
was tanking the economy?

5% unemployment...the Dept of labor says there will soon be a shortage
of skilled labor....and its all Bush's fault.

Snivel...

Snicker


Curious--is flippin burgers now being considered 'skilled' these days or not
???

Nope.

But machining is.

Manufacturing has picked up in most/many places. I see all sorts of
help wanted ads here in So. Cal. Installers, service people, CNC
button pushers, drivers, machinists.

So. Cal was the last part of the country to tank, and its the last
part to recover, always. So it must be even better elsewhere.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:34:15 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

This was just eye wash to let the Shrub claim he is doing something. A
2%
adjustment when the RMB is 30% to 40% undervalued will not mean
anything
at
all. Now that it is pegged to a bundle of currencies the US$ would
have
to
crash before it would make any difference. Which may happen. With the
deficits we have been running the dollar has already lost 30% of its
value
against the Euro and the Pound. Before the Shrub's tax cut one Euro
was
worth $1.17. Today it is worth $0.82. For the RMB to be at its proper
value the US$ would have to drop to $0.50 against the Euro.

Pretty soon we will not be able to afford anything but the cheap ****
from
China.


Hey Glenny...wernt you one of the dooom and gloomers who claimed Bush
was tanking the economy?

5% unemployment...the Dept of labor says there will soon be a shortage
of skilled labor....and its all Bush's fault.

Snivel...

Snicker


Curious--is flippin burgers now being considered 'skilled' these days or
not
???

Isn't it now considered a "manufacturing" job, like ketchup is a
"vegetable"?

Jeff

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 13:29:51 +0000, Gunner wrote: SNIP
Manufacturing has picked up in most/many places. I see all sorts of help
wanted ads here in So. Cal. Installers, service people, CNC button
pushers, drivers, machinists.

So. Cal was the last part of the country to tank, and its the last part
to recover, always. So it must be even better elsewhere.

Gunner


I agree with you from what I can see locally here. My nephews business
which would be considered small manufacturing is growing. Over the last
three years he has doubled his purchase of machining tools every year.
This last year had a new building put up that increased his square footage
about five times, and hired a guy about a year ago. He is working his ass
off six days a week, twelve hours a day, and would hire another one now if
he could find someone with top notch skills. Last time I talked to him he
said he is turning away enough work to keep at least another full time
employee busy.

The news of China decoupling their yuan is not necessarily bad... or
good... just different. When financials are artificially meddled with they
skew the market. Letting things float to their correct level is generally
a good thing, but it may benefit some and hurt others. The point of being
aware of the affect on trade and interest rates and such is to position
yourself so you benefit. This is just a trend shift. And one that will in
the long run force better decisions on those making them...

--
News Group: misc.survivalism
Big-T

As a proud neocon, I think we neocons need to have a raffle or
something so that Cliff could buy a brain.
Any thoughts Gunner ?
Heh
Mark




Richard Lewis wrote:
And you're sure about this about as sure as you have been about
everything else, right?

What do I get when you're proven to be an idiot again as you always
have been?

ral

Cliff wrote:


On 21 Jul 2005 08:52:32 -0700, "DL" wrote:


http://tinyurl.com/7tjzj

Can you say "inflation".


Nobody left to loan the neocons any more money for their
deficits it seems.
Now they will call the loans due.
--
Cliff

Cliff wrote:
On 21 Jul 2005 08:52:32 -0700, "DL" wrote:


http://tinyurl.com/7tjzj

Can you say "inflation".


Nobody left to loan the neocons any more money for their
deficits it seems.
Now they will call the loans due.

Idiot. Go take a few economics courses, then come back.

Cutting the Yuan loose is a good thing but this only a very small step in
that direction. Basically they had to break away from the US$ because as
the US$ slips against the Euro it makes Chinese goods ridiculously cheap in
in the EC and they were starting to howl. The new policy as it now stands
does little to help the US trade deficit but it will take some pressure off
the European markets. The value of the Yuan is not set on the open market
the way the US$ and other major currencies are. As I understand it the
Chinese finance bureaucrats will pick a bundle of currencies (which will be
kept secret) and set a very narrow range of exchange rates every day. Then
they will not allow it to trade outside that range. That idea works OK for
very small economies but leads to major distortions with an economy as big
as China's is getting.

Because the US$ is the weakest it has been in 30 years we should have a
trade advantage but we don't because the Chinese have been able to undercut
us by holding the Yuan artificially low. The Yuan has been held at 8.28 to
8.30 to the US$ for 11 years during which time the Chinese economy has grown
exponentially. Some economist think it should be trading around 6 Yuan to
the US$. That would make US goods cheaper in China and make Wal-Mart think
twice before forcing their suppliers to go offshore.

I read an article the other day in the Economist that said because the
Chinese production facilities were so new and highly automated that the
labor component was relatively small. Therefore it was not cheap labor that
gave the Chinese the trade advantage so much as the manipulated exchange
rate. An example they gave was a TV tube plant. The labor component in the
American plant was lower than the Chinese plants because the productivity
per labor hour was higher in the American plant making actual labor cost per
unit only slightly higher. In local currency the total production cost was
only about 5% higher in the US which, after shipping costs would have made
both plants competitive. However, due to the exchange rate the Chinese
tubes could be sold on the US market for 20% less.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Tom Gardner" wrote

Glenn, is cutting the "Yuan" loose from the dollar a bad thing? What
about the other Chinese currency? How is it effected and how do both
currencies interact in the world economy?

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 00:55:20 GMT, Ignoramus19508
wrote:

I would not support a contention that one political party in the US is
substantially less inclined towards thievery.

Well, the one in power is doing all of this.
They control the administration and both houses of
congress, etc.
The prior group was making good efforts at halting
the deficits which this group LIKES.
Not to mention that they are the WAR PARTY.
And lie a LOT.

Found any "WMDs" lately? That was a good hint ..... to
the observant (Hi, Gunner !!! G)
--
Cliff

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:50:58 -0700, Tim May
wrote:

In article , Emmo
wrote:

Well, I've been out of work for 17 months. I spent the previous 23 years in
software marketing, but there isn't much call for that anymore, between open
source, Microsoft, and India. Not sure how China plays into this issue, but
I'm certainly sensitive to people losing their jobs when they vanish from
this country. I'm not so clear on what I'm going to do now, myself...

Flipping burgers pays $6.75. Serving double double decafes with a twist
of lemon pays $8.35, plus all the tips you can grovel for (split with
the storeowner, 30-70, of course).

Winger's Delite, eh?

If you're a negro or a Mexican, you can be paid to stay at home and
breed, watch t.v., etc.

Winger's Delite, eh?

This is the country liberals voted for.

And lost.

HTH
--
Cliff

On 21 Jul 2005 21:25:04 -0700, "jon_banquer"
wrote:

How about pawn shops ?

Every time I see one I think of you.
--
Cliff

On 21 Jul 2005 21:22:09 -0700, "Halcitron" wrote:



Cliff wrote:
On 21 Jul 2005 08:52:32 -0700, "DL" wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/7tjzj

Can you say "inflation".

Nobody left to loan the neocons any more money for their
deficits it seems.
Now they will call the loans due.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072102091.html

China's Currency Move

Friday, July 22, 2005; Page A22

THE UNITED States and China are at loggerheads on several fronts:
China's military buildup, its piracy of intellectual property, its
human rights abuses. But one potential flash point has been managed
successfully so far, to the credit of the Bush administration.

LOL ....

Treasury
Secretary John W. Snow has persuaded Congress to shelve bad legislation
that would slap tariffs on China to punish it for maintaining an
undervalued currency. Meanwhile, Mr. Snow has urged the Chinese to
reform their currency policy for their own good. Yesterday China took a
first step in that direction, abandoning a decade-old policy of pegging
the yuan to the dollar.

They are dropping the dollar, not just unpegging.
They now hae LOTS of dollars & dollar debts to dispose of.
They are not going to be buying US products with them it
seems.
They will be buying US major firms though .... like oil
companies ... they can use that Gulf oil ....

China's move is too cautious to do more than dent its trade surplus,
much less cure the alarming U.S. trade deficit. The yuan will now be
worth 2 percent more, in dollar terms, than before the announcement;

Just testing the waters to start with.

the monthly wage of a Chinese factory worker will move from, say, $100
to $102, a trivial difference. Even so, China's announcement is
symbolically important. With China having shown itself capable of one
currency move, further adjustments now seem more likely. In time, the
policy of pegging the currency may give way to a more flexible,
market-driven "float." This is the right direction to head in.

It was one of the major things keeping the dollar as high as
it was under the neocons. China would buy the deficits.
Now they will be selling them ...

Allowing
the currency to float would strengthen China's ability to manage its
own economy,

Better for China.

softening the recent pattern of inflationary booms
followed by painful slowdowns.

In China.

From the global perspective, the stakes are even higher. In the past
decade or so, the world has come to rely on the United States to drive
economic growth. Both the U.S. government and American consumers have
borrowed to spend lavishly, and the spending has stimulated not only
the U.S. economy

Only if you do not count the debts that rose.
You now owe more than $100,000 for just your share
of the deficit, right? They will collect ..... plus interest ...
and in real terms ..

but also export-driven growth elsewhere. Meanwhile,
European and Japanese demand for American goods isn't expanding fast

The don't really need inch bolts & suchlike. And the US is far
behind in technology in many fields (neocons hate science &
research but love god who will smite the dems with their liberal
education values ...)

because those economies are sluggish. But the real puzzle is beyond
Japan, in the rest of Asia. The region grew an astonishing 8 percent
last year, a rate that would normally be expected to entail surging
demand for imports. But the Asians continued to run a large trade
surplus. Their growth was based on sizzling U.S. demand, not on demand
from their own consumers.

They seem to be supplying that as well.

This is not sustainable. Americans cannot go on borrowing from Asians
to buy Asian goods forever. To fix this imbalance, Americans have to
sell more goods and Asians have to consume more. Raising the value of
Asian currencies is one mechanism to achieve this: It makes American
goods more competitive and Asian consumers richer. China's cautious
decision yesterday has already been emulated by Malaysia; other Asian
countries,

The REAL domino theory.
They are not stupid either. They were just waiting .... to raise
prices & dump dollars ...

which have felt unable to revalue against the dollar for
fear that they would lose competitiveness vis-à-vis China, may now
reconsider. Whether they do may depend on whether China builds on its
move with further revaluations in the next few months. Having taken the
first step, China's leaders must have the courage to keep walking.

http://www.nancysinatra.com/intro.html
--
Cliff