stanley baer wrote:

I have found several hundred feet of 8 AWG wire that I would like to
use to bring electricity to my shop that is 200' from my house. At the
moment I use a 3ph propane powered generator but it is expensive to run.

I plan to run the wire through a buried plastic conduit and have enough
wire to be able to have two of each of the power carrying conducters and
two ground conducters.

What will the current capacity be of this setup? (I realize it is
probably not up to code)

stan

Stan, with all due respect you are going about this the wrong way. You should
first determine what load you need in your shop (a lot of guys get along fine
with 60 amps) and make sure you can pull the required amperage off of your
current panel (this would make the panel in your shop a "subpanel"). Once you
have decided on your amperage and you know how far it has to run then go look up
the voltage drop tables and find out what wire size you need. If that happens to
be 8AWG then fine, use it. Otherwise just buy the wire you need. The expense
will be trivial compared to the effort it will be to get power to your shop, and
to the benefit (and value) you will get. And, it will be to code! Have you
considered what would happen if there were a fire in your shop and your
insurance company found a bunch of illegal wiring? Think one of today's
insurance companies might try to weasel out of paying? I sure do! Do it right,
do it once. Even if you can't use the 8AWG for pulling your subpanel, you may
well be able to use it inside your shop when you wire all your outlets, etc.

Good on you for asking first!

GWE

I have found several hundred feet of 8 AWG wire that I would like to
use to bring electricity to my shop that is 200' from my house. At the
moment I use a 3ph propane powered generator but it is expensive to run.

I plan to run the wire through a buried plastic conduit and have enough
wire to be able to have two of each of the power carrying conducters and
two ground conducters.

What will the current capacity be of this setup? (I realize it is
probably not up to code)

stan

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
stanley baer wrote:

I have found several hundred feet of 8 AWG wire that I would like to use
to bring electricity to my shop that is 200' from my house.

What will the current capacity be of this setup? (I realize it is
probably not up to code)

Stan, with all due respect you are going about this the wrong way.
snip
Have you considered what would happen if there were a fire in your
shop and your insurance company found a bunch of illegal wiring?
Think one of today's insurance companies might try to weasel out
of paying?


If the fire were attributable to the incorrectly-installed wiring, then the
insurance company would not be "weaseling"; it would be a legitimate denial
of coverage.

Insurance companies are a business (like any other), they are not a charity.
They owe it to their other paying customers, to their stockholders, and to
their employees NOT to pay on bad claims.

- Michael

stanley baer wrote in
:

I have found several hundred feet of 8 AWG wire that I would like to
use to bring electricity to my shop that is 200' from my house. At
the moment I use a 3ph propane powered generator but it is expensive
to run.

I plan to run the wire through a buried plastic conduit and have
enough wire to be able to have two of each of the power carrying
conducters and two ground conducters.

What will the current capacity be of this setup? (I realize it is
probably not up to code)

stan


IIRC, 8 is good for about 40 amps, in free air. Bury it in conduit, the
rating will go down. For a building that far away, you would probably be
better off just running a separate service for the garage. By the time
you purchase enough wire to run 200Ft with any appreciable load rating,
you have probably invested enough to install a separate service at the
garage.


--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

http://www.machines-cnc.net:81/

To the best of my recollection, you can do 40 amps on 8 ga. cable. As Grant
said, figure your voltage drop before going with that cable. I'll chime in
that I'm a fan of "in code" electrical work, as well. Nothing inherently out
of code in what you have said so far, provided stuff is buried to proper
depth, conduit is properly sized, cable colours are ok for use (ground
green, neutral white, hot lines red and black), breaker at feeder panel
correctly sized etc. etc. Don't know about the US code, but it would be
legal here to tape the exposed cable ends to address the colour issue.

Others will undoubtedly correct me with regards to US practise.

Adam Smith,
Midland ON

"stanley baer" wrote in message
...
I have found several hundred feet of 8 AWG wire that I would like to use
to bring electricity to my shop that is 200' from my house. At the moment
I use a 3ph propane powered generator but it is expensive to run.

I plan to run the wire through a buried plastic conduit and have enough
wire to be able to have two of each of the power carrying conducters and
two ground conducters.

What will the current capacity be of this setup? (I realize it is probably
not up to code)

stan

The current capacity of wire depends on the type of insulation. So you
really have not provided quite enough information.

When you put in the conduit, be sure it is large enough that you can
put in larger wire later if you need to. I would also put in a
separate conduit for telephone, alarm signals, etc. If your shop is
200 feet from the house you will want a phone there and probably a
fire and bugler alarm too.

I would also figure out how to feed power from the generator to the
house for power outages.


Dan
( not going to look for my wire tables until I know what sort of
insulation the wire has. )

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:38:16 -0500, stanley baer
wrote:

I have found several hundred feet of 8 AWG wire that I would like to
use to bring electricity to my shop that is 200' from my house. At the
moment I use a 3ph propane powered generator but it is expensive to run.

I plan to run the wire through a buried plastic conduit and have enough
wire to be able to have two of each of the power carrying conducters and
two ground conducters.

What will the current capacity be of this setup? (I realize it is
probably not up to code)

stan
Stan,
The lowest rating for 8 gauge copper single wire is 60 amps. With 3
wires in a cable that drops to 40 amps. But, you should be using wire
marked THWN, or THW. The W stands for wet. If wire is going
underground, even in conduit, it needs to be rated for wet conditions.
THWN wire in 8 gauge is rated at 50 amps for three wires in a cable
at 86 degrees F. Voltage drop has to be considered. It needs to be
less than 2%. For 8 gauge wire that's about 17 amps max @ 240 volts
for 200 feet of wire. And with four 8 gauge wires the minimum conduit
size for THW and THWN is 3/4. All the preceeding info is from the
"Pocket Ref" written by Thomas J. Glover. Don't exceed these numbers
if you don't know what you're doing. And, keeping the wiring to code
is a good way to avoid electrocution and other hazards. I wouldn't
wire it in a way that doesn't meet code. You shouldn't either. Nor
should you trust the specs I listed without checking them out with a
reliable source.
ERS

stanley baer wrote:
Thank-you for the detailed information Eric.

I plan to use 1-1/2' conduit and bury a phone line and water line, all
36" deep while I am at it. The writing on the wire is RW90 XLPE 1000V,
which is moisture resistant as far as I can tell from a quick web search.

Does the 2% voltage drop current of 17A mean that I should fuse the
sub-panel for 35A if I use 2 conductors? I was hopeing to get 50A. My
high current loads are the welders which I operate at low duty cycles.
since this is just a hobby shop there is never more than one big machine
working at once.

stan

You really would need 2 17 amp fuses[thoretically]

Voltage drop is the real enemy here, not max load.


The wire is the cheapest part of this equation, use the biggest you can.

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/pro...u=&narFla g=0


An example: bulk 4 wire 1/0 UF at a buck a foot. 100 amp capacity, no
conduit needed.




stanley baer wrote:
Thank-you for the detailed information Eric.

I plan to use 1-1/2' conduit and bury a phone line and water line, all
36" deep while I am at it. The writing on the wire is RW90 XLPE 1000V,
which is moisture resistant as far as I can tell from a quick web search.

Does the 2% voltage drop current of 17A mean that I should fuse the
sub-panel for 35A if I use 2 conductors? I was hopeing to get 50A. My
high current loads are the welders which I operate at low duty cycles.
since this is just a hobby shop there is never more than one big machine
working at once.

stan

On 15 Jun 2005 08:49:45 -0700, "
wrote:

The current capacity of wire depends on the type of insulation. So you
really have not provided quite enough information.

When you put in the conduit, be sure it is large enough that you can
put in larger wire later if you need to. I would also put in a
separate conduit for telephone, alarm signals, etc. If your shop is
200 feet from the house you will want a phone there and probably a
fire and bugler alarm too.

And keep the data conduit at LEAST 3' away from the power conduit. I
personally would go with 5-10' for that length of run. Which
unfortunatly means another similar ditch. Ive seen far too many
linear couplings because of data wiring being too close to power.

Unless..you use metallic conduit for the data run. Which then
might..might might allow you to use the same ditch.

Gunner


I would also figure out how to feed power from the generator to the
house for power outages.


Dan
( not going to look for my wire tables until I know what sort of
insulation the wire has. )

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown

Thanks for the information, I had not considered the insurance problem,
but I don't want to do anything unsafe. Part of my reason for replacing
the generator is that it is a bit of a fire hazard itself.

stan

Thank-you for the detailed information Eric.

I plan to use 1-1/2' conduit and bury a phone line and water line, all
36" deep while I am at it. The writing on the wire is RW90 XLPE 1000V,
which is moisture resistant as far as I can tell from a quick web search.

Does the 2% voltage drop current of 17A mean that I should fuse the
sub-panel for 35A if I use 2 conductors? I was hopeing to get 50A. My
high current loads are the welders which I operate at low duty cycles.
since this is just a hobby shop there is never more than one big machine
working at once.

stan

"stanley baer" wrote in message
...
I have found several hundred feet of 8 AWG wire that I would like to

Forgive me if someone has already asked, but you have to know the type
of insulation to properly answer the question. As already noted, voltage
drop is also a consideration.

Vaughn

I bought the wire at an auction, three rolls, one black, one white and
one green, so the colour was not a problem. Each roll weighs about 40
lb and I paid $30 canadian for all of it, quite a bit less than the
scrap value. Six conducters of this size (about 1/4" dia each) should
fit comfortably in a 1-1/2" conduit. I can't find anything in the
Ontario code about doubling up the conductors, but otherwise I plan to
stick to the code.

stan

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:19:15 -0500, stanley baer
wrote:

Thank-you for the detailed information Eric.

I plan to use 1-1/2' conduit and bury a phone line and water line, all
36" deep while I am at it. The writing on the wire is RW90 XLPE 1000V,
which is moisture resistant as far as I can tell from a quick web search.

Does the 2% voltage drop current of 17A mean that I should fuse the
sub-panel for 35A if I use 2 conductors? I was hopeing to get 50A. My
high current loads are the welders which I operate at low duty cycles.
since this is just a hobby shop there is never more than one big machine
working at once.

stan
Stan,
What the voltage drop means is that if you try to draw more than about
17 amps on one wire the voltage will drop more than 2%. Some electric
things don't mind. But others do. Induction motors, e.g. the typical
compressor motor, will draw more current as the voltage drops trying
to speed back up. This extra current draw then lowers the voltage,
which causes the motor to draw more current etc. This is how brown
outs damage some motorized appliances. Your welder may not care if the
voltage drops too much. You gotta book for the welder? It should say
what it will tolerate.
ERS

The writing on the wire is RW90 XLPE 1000V which I understand to be
moisture proof.

stan

Stan sez:
" I plan to run the wire through a buried plastic conduit and have enough
wire to be able to have two of each of the power carrying conducters and
two ground conducters."

Assuming you are transmitting single-phase current at 220 volts:
The charts say a 2% voltage drop will occur with #8 wire over a length of
150 feet when carrying 14 amps. No. 6 wire is recommended for 2% voltage
drop at 200 feet.

Bob Swinney





"stanley baer" wrote in message
...
I have found several hundred feet of 8 AWG wire that I would like to use
to bring electricity to my shop that is 200' from my house. At the moment
I use a 3ph propane powered generator but it is expensive to run.


What will the current capacity be of this setup? (I realize it is probably
not up to code)

stan

stanley baer wrote:
Thank-you for the detailed information Eric.

I plan to use 1-1/2' conduit and bury a phone line and water line, all
36" deep while I am at it. The writing on the wire is RW90 XLPE 1000V,
which is moisture resistant as far as I can tell from a quick web search.

Does the 2% voltage drop current of 17A mean that I should fuse the
sub-panel for 35A if I use 2 conductors? I was hopeing to get 50A. My
high current loads are the welders which I operate at low duty cycles.
since this is just a hobby shop there is never more than one big machine
working at once.

stan

It's against code to parallel conductors smaller than 1/0 AWG.
2002 NEC 310.4

Nate

--
Http://www.Weber-Automation.net:8000

stanley baer wrote:
Thank-you for the detailed information Eric.

I plan to use 1-1/2' conduit and bury a phone line and water line, all
36" deep while I am at it. The writing on the wire is RW90 XLPE 1000V,
which is moisture resistant as far as I can tell from a quick web search.

Does the 2% voltage drop current of 17A mean that I should fuse the
sub-panel for 35A if I use 2 conductors? I was hopeing to get 50A. My
high current loads are the welders which I operate at low duty cycles.
since this is just a hobby shop there is never more than one big machine
working at once.

stan
Also, this wire insulation is not listed in any of the NEC tables for
use as general wiring. A quick google search shows this cable is used
for transmission/switchgear and some mining use.

Buy the correct cable for the job. Then you can size it for your
needs.

Nate


--
Http://www.Weber-Automation.net:8000

stanley baer wrote:

I have found several hundred feet of 8 AWG wire that I would like to
use to bring electricity to my shop that is 200' from my house. At the
moment I use a 3ph propane powered generator but it is expensive to run.

I plan to run the wire through a buried plastic conduit and have enough
wire to be able to have two of each of the power carrying conducters and
two ground conducters.

What will the current capacity be of this setup? (I realize it is
probably not up to code)

stan
Advise :

1. don't route close to any trees - lightening strikes and drives down the roots...
[ my dad had a strike and it melted both black tubing and the wire on the way to GND .]

2. use code underground conduit.

The yard light in this place was put in white plastic pipe. Plumbing pipe ? !
The ground fault is in several hundred feet of that pipe. Somewhere.

I guess old telephone grounded line tests will find the point, but the specs
of the wire are not known. So I'll have to dig the whole thing up.
It mingles with phone and water lines naturally...

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

I plan to use 1-1/2' conduit and bury a phone line and water line,
all 36" deep while I am at it. The writing on the wire is RW90 XLPE
1000V, which is moisture resistant as far as I can tell from a quick
web search.
snip

Also, this wire insulation is not listed in any of the NEC tables for
use as general wiring. A quick google search shows this cable is used
for transmission/switchgear and some mining use.

Buy the correct cable for the job. Then you can size it for your
needs.

Nate

It's a standard Canadian wire designation, suitable for use in wet
locations. Most service entrance conductors here are RW90 insulated.

Ideally you could sell the single conductor #8 or trade it in for some
larger cable. Unfortunately it's not a very useful or sought after item.

With the number of colors you have you'd be limited to 120 Volt circuits,
unless you have lots of the black. It takes 4 conductors to do a
standard 120/240 subfeed. Parallel runs in this gauge is not acceptable.
The feeding breakers are not designed to hold 2 wires anyway.
As others have pointed out the voltage drop at this distance will
probably limit you to 15-20 amps total load at your shop with the #8.

For this application I would probably recommend #2 TECK breakered at 60
amps, or 1/0 ACWU. These are both armored direct bury cables. That
should be enough to run a medium size welder and lights, etc.
(again I've given Canadian cable designations)

Mike

"lionslair at consolidated dot net" "lionslair at consolidated dot net" wrote
in message ...
2. use code underground conduit.

The yard light in this place was put in white plastic pipe. Plumbing pipe ? !
The ground fault is in several hundred feet of that pipe. Somewhere.

I guess old telephone grounded line tests will find the point, but the specs
of the wire are not known. So I'll have to dig the whole thing up.
It mingles with phone and water lines naturally...

As far as I know, the only difference between PVC schd 40 electrical
conduit and PVC schd 40 water pipe is the color and the labeling. I don't use
thin wall PVC for anything.

Vaughn

You could always run two circuits rather than one circuit with
paralleled conductors.
If I did that, I would run two 240 volt circuits and put the lighting
on one of them. Trying to balance the 120 volt loads so there is not a
lot of current in the neutral. That way if you pop the circuit breaker
from a heavy tool load you won't be in the dark.

The voltage drop is something you can compensate for with a buck boost
transformer. It is somewhat of a problem with loads that vary. I
would use circuit breakers sized to protect the wiring and if you want
to guard against low voltage use a panel in you shop with smaller
breakers.


Dan