For all of your powder actuated fastening needs, pay a visit to
www.pinsandloads.com Pins and Loads.com specializes in tools, pins and
loads from ITW Ramset. We also have a tool cleaning and repair service, as
well as powder actuated tool user certification.

On Tue, 24 May 2005 15:26:46 GMT, Lenny Schlegel wrote:
For all of your powder actuated fastening needs, pay a visit to

No thanks; I buy from Grainger. They're closer, and they don't spam.

Dave,

Grainger is a great company, who we regularly do business with. I'm sorry
you feel that one post in topical newsgroups is spamming, and hope that if
there's ever a problem with Grainger, you'd give us a try. I'm sure you'll
be more than satisfied.

-Len Schlegel
Pinsandloads.com

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 May 2005 15:26:46 GMT, Lenny Schlegel
wrote:
For all of your powder actuated fastening needs, pay a visit to

No thanks; I buy from Grainger. They're closer, and they don't spam.

On Tue, 24 May 2005 19:17:24 GMT, Lenny Schlegel wrote:
Dave,

Grainger is a great company, who we regularly do business with. I'm sorry
you feel that one post in topical newsgroups is spamming, and hope that if
there's ever a problem with Grainger, you'd give us a try. I'm sure you'll
be more than satisfied.

No, I don't buy from spammers, ever. This isn't a .forsale group.
You're the equivalent of an insurance salesman crashing a party and
bugging the partygoers.

On Tue, 24 May 2005 15:26:46 GMT, "Lenny Schlegel"
wrote:

For all of your powder actuated fastening needs, pay a visit to
www.pinsandloads.com Pins and Loads.com specializes in tools, pins and
loads from ITW Ramset. We also have a tool cleaning and repair service, as
well as powder actuated tool user certification.

Well, I was actually in the market to find a new piston for an old
low-velocity gun, since the chips in the tip were resulting in a lot
of "come-backers" that seriously hurt, even with the rubber deflector
cone in place and wearing two jackets and every stitch of personal
protection gear I own...

But now that you have SPAMMED and shown us your true scruples, you
are permanently out of the running. Even if I run across your site by
other means.

God, you'd think these morons would learn... We can search for
them, or they can use targeted advertising. Waltzing in and crapping
on our living room carpet isn't a very effective marketing tool.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Tue, 24 May 2005 19:17:24 GMT, "Lenny Schlegel"
wrote:

Dave,

Grainger is a great company, who we regularly do business with. I'm sorry
you feel that one post in topical newsgroups is spamming, and hope that if
there's ever a problem with Grainger, you'd give us a try. I'm sure you'll
be more than satisfied.

-Len Schlegel
Pinsandloads.com

Seems fair enough to me.

Gunner


"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 May 2005 15:26:46 GMT, Lenny Schlegel
wrote:
For all of your powder actuated fastening needs, pay a visit to

No thanks; I buy from Grainger. They're closer, and they don't spam.



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Wed, 25 May 2005 14:29:49 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 24 May 2005 19:17:24 GMT, "Lenny Schlegel"
wrote:

Dave,

Grainger is a great company, who we regularly do business with. I'm sorry
you feel that one post in topical newsgroups is spamming, and hope that if
there's ever a problem with Grainger, you'd give us a try. I'm sure you'll
be more than satisfied.

Seems fair enough to me.

Not a chance in hell that I'd give money to a spammer.

In article 85Lke.4$Li3.0@trndny05,
"Lenny Schlegel" wrote:

Dave,

Grainger is a great company, who we regularly do business with. I'm sorry
you feel that one post in topical newsgroups is spamming, and hope that if
there's ever a problem with Grainger, you'd give us a try. I'm sure you'll
be more than satisfied.

-Len Schlegel
Pinsandloads.com

Technically, you didn't SPAM. Spamming is posting an ad many times
or to many places. It's just that this is a clean newsgroup--no ads at
all. We've all developed an expectation for it to remain that way.
What you did was kind of like if you went to a movie and someone had
spliced a commercial into the middle of it.
Hence the negative responses.
There are a few guys who participate in here and own/work for
businesses. They might mention them on occasion when it's appropriate
or leave a link in their .sig--something which seems to bother nobody.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/

On Wed, 25 May 2005 13:04:52 -0500, B.B. u wrote:

Technically, you didn't SPAM. Spamming is posting an ad many times
or to many places.

Well, that's one definition. And he did hit at least here and the
wooddorking group. google would, of course, give the whole list.

B.B.
Thanks for the polite, and civil reply.
I did apologize, as I was not aware of this group's "rules" as it were. Now
that I know, I will respect those rules and not make a post like that again.
I certainly do not want my company to be confused with those companys who
unscrupulously spam and bombard people with ads, viruses, spyware, etc.
-Len Schlegel
www.pinsandloads.com

"B.B." u wrote in message
news
In article 85Lke.4$Li3.0@trndny05,
"Lenny Schlegel" wrote:

Dave,

Grainger is a great company, who we regularly do business with. I'm sorry
you feel that one post in topical newsgroups is spamming, and hope that if
there's ever a problem with Grainger, you'd give us a try. I'm sure
you'll
be more than satisfied.

-Len Schlegel
Pinsandloads.com

Technically, you didn't SPAM. Spamming is posting an ad many times
or to many places. It's just that this is a clean newsgroup--no ads at
all. We've all developed an expectation for it to remain that way.
What you did was kind of like if you went to a movie and someone had
spliced a commercial into the middle of it.
Hence the negative responses.
There are a few guys who participate in here and own/work for
businesses. They might mention them on occasion when it's appropriate
or leave a link in their .sig--something which seems to bother nobody.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 25 May 2005 14:29:49 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 24 May 2005 19:17:24 GMT, "Lenny Schlegel"
wrote:

Dave,

Grainger is a great company, who we regularly do business with. I'm sorry
you feel that one post in topical newsgroups is spamming, and hope that if
there's ever a problem with Grainger, you'd give us a try. I'm sure you'll
be more than satisfied.

Seems fair enough to me.

Not a chance in hell that I'd give money to a spammer.

Do you treat advertisers on TV the same way?

On Thu, 26 May 2005 08:56:02 +1200, Tom wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 25 May 2005 14:29:49 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 24 May 2005 19:17:24 GMT, "Lenny Schlegel"
wrote:

Dave,

Grainger is a great company, who we regularly do business with. I'm sorry
you feel that one post in topical newsgroups is spamming, and hope that if
there's ever a problem with Grainger, you'd give us a try. I'm sure you'll
be more than satisfied.

Seems fair enough to me.

Not a chance in hell that I'd give money to a spammer.

Do you treat advertisers on TV the same way?

How is that relevant or close to the same thing? They provide value by
paying for the show I'm watching. Last I checked, spammers don't pay
for my bandwidth, they steal it.

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Thu, 26 May 2005 08:56:02 +1200, Tom wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 25 May 2005 14:29:49 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 24 May 2005 19:17:24 GMT, "Lenny Schlegel"
wrote:

Dave,

Grainger is a great company, who we regularly do business with. I'm sorry
you feel that one post in topical newsgroups is spamming, and hope that if
there's ever a problem with Grainger, you'd give us a try. I'm sure you'll
be more than satisfied.

Seems fair enough to me.

Not a chance in hell that I'd give money to a spammer.

Do you treat advertisers on TV the same way?

How is that relevant or close to the same thing? They provide value by
paying for the show I'm watching. Last I checked, spammers don't pay
for my bandwidth, they steal it.

"They pay for the show?" LOL, I think you'll find the consumer does.
As for stealing your bandwidth, cost out the time, ads cost you..

In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 25 May 2005 13:04:52 -0500, B.B.
. ru wrote:

Technically, you didn't SPAM. Spamming is posting an ad many times
or to many places.

Well, that's one definition. And he did hit at least here and the
wooddorking group. google would, of course, give the whole list.

The standard I saw a long time ago was square root of number of
groups cross-posted to plus the square root of the number of duplicate
posts = 20. So it worked out to needing 400 cross-posted groups, or
400 duplicate posts, or some combination in-between. Real spammers hit
that mark easily. Guys like Len don't come even close.
Of course, that isn't carved in stone or anything, so what is or
isn't SPAM can vary from place to place or person to person. I just
stick with that standard because it's pretty much the threshold used by
the auto-cancelers and most ISPs. That way by the time I'm bitching
about someone spamming it's to the level that they have an excuse for
(or even interest in) dealing with the offender.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/

On 25 May 2005 18:19:47 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 25 May 2005 13:04:52 -0500, B.B. u wrote:

Technically, you didn't SPAM. Spamming is posting an ad many times
or to many places.

Well, that's one definition. And he did hit at least here and the
wooddorking group. google would, of course, give the whole list.

Is a hobbyist who offers up a machine for sale, a spammer?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

OMG, guys give him a break.

Tony

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 May 2005 15:26:46 GMT, "Lenny Schlegel"
wrote:

For all of your powder actuated fastening needs, pay a visit to
www.pinsandloads.com Pins and Loads.com specializes in tools, pins and
loads from ITW Ramset. We also have a tool cleaning and repair service,
as
well as powder actuated tool user certification.

Well, I was actually in the market to find a new piston for an old
low-velocity gun, since the chips in the tip were resulting in a lot
of "come-backers" that seriously hurt, even with the rubber deflector
cone in place and wearing two jackets and every stitch of personal
protection gear I own...

But now that you have SPAMMED and shown us your true scruples, you
are permanently out of the running. Even if I run across your site by
other means.

God, you'd think these morons would learn... We can search for
them, or they can use targeted advertising. Waltzing in and crapping
on our living room carpet isn't a very effective marketing tool.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Thu, 26 May 2005 09:40:32 +1200, Tom wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

How is that relevant or close to the same thing? They provide value by
paying for the show I'm watching. Last I checked, spammers don't pay
for my bandwidth, they steal it.

"They pay for the show?" LOL, I think you'll find the consumer does.

Last I checked, I don't have to pay for broadcast TV, the sponsors
do. Maybe it's different in .nz?

As for stealing your bandwidth, cost out the time, ads cost you..

words together coherent not sentence make thought of

On Thu, 26 May 2005 00:43:21 -0500, B.B. u wrote:
In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 25 May 2005 13:04:52 -0500, B.B.
.ru wrote:

Technically, you didn't SPAM. Spamming is posting an ad many times
or to many places.

Well, that's one definition. And he did hit at least here and the
wooddorking group. google would, of course, give the whole list.

The standard I saw a long time ago was square root of number of
groups cross-posted to plus the square root of the number of duplicate
posts = 20. So it worked out to needing 400 cross-posted groups, or
400 duplicate posts, or some combination in-between. Real spammers hit
that mark easily. Guys like Len don't come even close.

Yes, there are many ways to define it. For any definition you can give,
I could give another which includes "one is enough", which is the one I
choose to use.

Of course, that isn't carved in stone or anything, so what is or
isn't SPAM can vary from place to place or person to person. I just
stick with that standard because it's pretty much the threshold used by
the auto-cancelers and most ISPs. That way by the time I'm bitching
about someone spamming it's to the level that they have an excuse for
(or even interest in) dealing with the offender.

Well, there's different levels of spam, sure. This guy, a simple "don't
do that" from several people, seems to have fixed. The idiots who post
what more permissive definitions consider to be spam, get reported. I
didn't send this to his ISP or their upstream, because to his credit, he
eventually "got it". If he'd followed up with "Screw you, I can do what
I want, here's more spam", then I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one
forwarding his posts to his ISP and to eBay.

Is the horse dead yet?

On Thu, 26 May 2005 07:25:03 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On 25 May 2005 18:19:47 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 25 May 2005 13:04:52 -0500, B.B. u wrote:

Technically, you didn't SPAM. Spamming is posting an ad many times
or to many places.

Well, that's one definition. And he did hit at least here and the
wooddorking group. google would, of course, give the whole list.

Is a hobbyist who offers up a machine for sale, a spammer?

I don't think so. If someone participates in the group, that's a whole
lot different than someone using it _exclusively_ to exploit it as a
free advertising forum. Like Steve Knight and Robin Lee over in the
wooddorking group - great advice, active participants, and oh by the
way, they sell stuff. But they don't just come in, drop an ad, and use
it only for that; they contribute real value to the group.

On Thu, 26 May 2005 11:45:30 -0400, "Tony"
wrote:
"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 24 May 2005 15:26:46 GMT, "Lenny Schlegel"
wrote:

For all of your powder actuated fastening needs, pay a visit to
www.pinsandloads.com Pins and Loads.com specializes in tools, pins and
loads from ITW Ramset. We also have a tool cleaning and repair service,
as well as powder actuated tool user certification.

Well, I was actually in the market to find a new piston for an old
low-velocity gun, since the chips in the tip were resulting in a lot
of "come-backers" that seriously hurt, even with the rubber deflector
cone in place and wearing two jackets and every stitch of personal
protection gear I own...

But now that you have SPAMMED and shown us your true scruples, you
are permanently out of the running. Even if I run across your site by
other means.

God, you'd think these morons would learn... We can search for
them, or they can use targeted advertising. Waltzing in and crapping
on our living room carpet isn't a very effective marketing tool.

OMG, guys give him a break.

I Just Might - he actually read the newsgroup, figured it out,
apologized, and seems to get it. True spammers just spew and run.

The true path to enlightenment (and sales here) is to subscribe and
participate in the everyday newsgroup discussions. Network. Have
fun.

If someone asks "How the heck do I do this?" you can come up with
the answer. And if you happen to sell the answer, that's okay, as
long as you aren't beating us over the head daily with the fact.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On 26 May 2005 16:20:25 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Thu, 26 May 2005 07:25:03 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On 25 May 2005 18:19:47 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 25 May 2005 13:04:52 -0500, B.B. u wrote:

Technically, you didn't SPAM. Spamming is posting an ad many times
or to many places.

Well, that's one definition. And he did hit at least here and the
wooddorking group. google would, of course, give the whole list.

Is a hobbyist who offers up a machine for sale, a spammer?

I don't think so. If someone participates in the group, that's a whole
lot different than someone using it _exclusively_ to exploit it as a
free advertising forum. Like Steve Knight and Robin Lee over in the
wooddorking group - great advice, active participants, and oh by the
way, they sell stuff. But they don't just come in, drop an ad, and use
it only for that; they contribute real value to the group.

So the guy that pops in, offers up his deceased Dads minty Heavy 10,
then leaves, is a spammer?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Thu, 26 May 2005 18:05:11 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On 26 May 2005 16:20:25 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

I don't think so. If someone participates in the group, that's a whole
lot different than someone using it _exclusively_ to exploit it as a
free advertising forum. Like Steve Knight and Robin Lee over in the
wooddorking group - great advice, active participants, and oh by the
way, they sell stuff. But they don't just come in, drop an ad, and use
it only for that; they contribute real value to the group.

So the guy that pops in, offers up his deceased Dads minty Heavy 10,
then leaves, is a spammer?

Well, that's still different than some guy advertising his business...

B.B. wrote:
...It's just that this is a clean newsgroup--no ads at
all. ...

I wouldn't say "no ads", but it is pretty clean. I wasn't too offended
by the OP, but a little annoyed. A better place for him in usenet would
be to respond to posts asking about p-a-f.

I also noticed that nobody seemed to mind when "Joee" (who may or may
not be a business) posted a number of times about his/her auctions and
does not post otherwise.

Bob

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Thu, 26 May 2005 09:40:32 +1200, Tom wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

How is that relevant or close to the same thing? They provide value by
paying for the show I'm watching. Last I checked, spammers don't pay
for my bandwidth, they steal it.

"They pay for the show?" LOL, I think you'll find the consumer does.

Last I checked, I don't have to pay for broadcast TV, the sponsors
do. Maybe it's different in .nz?

As for stealing your bandwidth, cost out the time, ads cost you..

words together coherent not sentence make thought of

Not a deep thinker are you? Where do you think the sponsors
get their money? The tooth fairy?

On 26 May 2005 19:43:32 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Thu, 26 May 2005 18:05:11 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On 26 May 2005 16:20:25 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

I don't think so. If someone participates in the group, that's a whole
lot different than someone using it _exclusively_ to exploit it as a
free advertising forum. Like Steve Knight and Robin Lee over in the
wooddorking group - great advice, active participants, and oh by the
way, they sell stuff. But they don't just come in, drop an ad, and use
it only for that; they contribute real value to the group.

So the guy that pops in, offers up his deceased Dads minty Heavy 10,
then leaves, is a spammer?

Well, that's still different than some guy advertising his business...

Why?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Fri, 27 May 2005 09:15:00 +1200, Tom wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

On Thu, 26 May 2005 09:40:32 +1200, Tom wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

How is that relevant or close to the same thing? They provide value by
paying for the show I'm watching. Last I checked, spammers don't pay
for my bandwidth, they steal it.

"They pay for the show?" LOL, I think you'll find the consumer does.

Last I checked, I don't have to pay for broadcast TV, the sponsors
do. Maybe it's different in .nz?

As for stealing your bandwidth, cost out the time, ads cost you..

words together coherent not sentence make thought of

Not a deep thinker are you? Where do you think the sponsors
get their money? The tooth fairy?

So, you're defending usenet spamming, because people buy things
advertised on TV. If that's your reasoning, it's disjointed at best.

On Fri, 27 May 2005 07:55:22 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On 26 May 2005 19:43:32 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Thu, 26 May 2005 18:05:11 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On 26 May 2005 16:20:25 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

I don't think so. If someone participates in the group, that's a whole
lot different than someone using it _exclusively_ to exploit it as a
free advertising forum. Like Steve Knight and Robin Lee over in the
wooddorking group - great advice, active participants, and oh by the
way, they sell stuff. But they don't just come in, drop an ad, and use
it only for that; they contribute real value to the group.

So the guy that pops in, offers up his deceased Dads minty Heavy 10,
then leaves, is a spammer?

Well, that's still different than some guy advertising his business...

Why?

"Hey, I've got (thing), thought I'd talk to you guys before putting it
on eBay", vs. "Come to craporama.com and see our assortment of crap!" ?

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2005 09:15:00 +1200, Tom wrote:

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Thu, 26 May 2005 09:40:32 +1200, Tom wrote:

Dave Hinz wrote:

How is that relevant or close to the same thing? They provide value by
paying for the show I'm watching. Last I checked, spammers don't pay
for my bandwidth, they steal it.

"They pay for the show?" LOL, I think you'll find the consumer does.

Last I checked, I don't have to pay for broadcast TV, the sponsors
do. Maybe it's different in .nz?


As for stealing your bandwidth, cost out the time, ads cost you..

words together coherent not sentence make thought of

Not a deep thinker are you? Where do you think the sponsors
get their money? The tooth fairy?


So, you're defending usenet spamming, because people buy things
advertised on TV. If that's your reasoning, it's disjointed at best.

He's got a right to free speech, as long as he's not stepping on someone
else's free speech and as long as he speaking in a responsible fashion.
I think this guy fit that description- one post, polite response to
agressive responses to his first post.. That's not so bad, at least I
don't think it is.

John

"Pins and Loads" wrote in message
news:5B4le.38$Lb.2@trndny05...
B.B.
Thanks for the polite, and civil reply.
I did apologize, as I was not aware of this group's "rules" as it were.
Now
that I know, I will respect those rules and not make a post like that
again.
I certainly do not want my company to be confused with those companys who
unscrupulously spam and bombard people with ads, viruses, spyware, etc.
-Len Schlegel
www.pinsandloads.com

Actually, Len, it's a tough call, because I feel you have the potential to
provide a good and valuable service to many of the readers here. Needless
to say, most of us don't like advertising, yet when someone advertises that
which we need, we tend to pay attention. I can't help but think that
someone on the list has received a benefit from your post. Perhaps not
posting anything in the future is the best solution, but keep following this
nutty group, and get to be known. You'll be surprised how your information
might be accepted as we get to *know* you.

I can't imagine anyone having received a colder reception than I did a few
years ago, and I can hardly blame them, for I didn't understand the nature
of the group, and likely stepped on quite a few toes along the way. I
find that many have become good "friends" and I enjoy talking with them now,
even trading barbs on occasion.

I, for one, wasn't offended by your very polite and short message.

Be well,

Harold