"ldg" wrote in message
...

I've been lurking this group for a few weeks in hope of answering my
own questions from your experience, but I'm a little to dense to solve
this apparently.

I need patio brackets.

I hired a guy to make plans for several additions to the house, one
being a tile covered patio. This patio looks simple enough on paper.
it has 6 posts, with 4 being at 45 degree angles. The framing is 6x6
lumber, and there are 2 large trusses made with these large beams that
span the 20 foot width.

The problem is no one seems to make 45 degree brackets to hold the
wood up.

My carpenter found a local blacksmith who can make the brackets, but
his schedule is such that I'm probably not going to get the thing done
this year. My wife is upset and that, believe me, is not a good
thing.

Anyone have any suggestions?

I did some welding about 30 years ago. I suppose I could buy an arc
welder and plasma cutter, then just do the job myself. (To tell the
truth this is appealing.) The problem is I'm not in the least
artistic. How can I make a simple, yet decorative set of brackets?

I looks at though a fairly simple jig could be made of the decorative
cuts in some sort of (ceramic?) guide, then the shape could be cut out
with a plasma cutter. This would leave straight welds, which I could
probably handle.

Am I way off base?

Thanks for any help.

It's ok to make fun. I deserve it by now. Anyone that would pour
concrete in 45 degree corners and not research the entire patio parts
list ahead of time should be made fun of. :-)

From this group, I've sort of settled on the Miller 625 plasma cutter
and the Miller 210 welder. The cost is still considerable less than
having the brackets made. What do ya think?

Regards.
Larry


Larry
Here is another idea that you may not have thought of. That is to post your
location and ask if there is anyone on this NG who would be interested in
building them for you.

I've also posted this on the rec.crafts.metalworking newsgroup which is
another very helpful NG. Both of these NG's have some very capable people.

Good luck.

"Lane" lane (no spam) at copperaccents dot com wrote in message
...

"ldg" wrote in message
...

I've been lurking this group for a few weeks in hope of answering my
own questions from your experience, but I'm a little to dense to solve
this apparently.

I need patio brackets.

I hired a guy to make plans for several additions to the house, one
being a tile covered patio. This patio looks simple enough on paper.
it has 6 posts, with 4 being at 45 degree angles. The framing is 6x6
lumber, and there are 2 large trusses made with these large beams that
span the 20 foot width.

The problem is no one seems to make 45 degree brackets to hold the
wood up.

My carpenter found a local blacksmith who can make the brackets, but
his schedule is such that I'm probably not going to get the thing done
this year. My wife is upset and that, believe me, is not a good
thing.

Anyone have any suggestions?

I did some welding about 30 years ago. I suppose I could buy an arc
welder and plasma cutter, then just do the job myself. (To tell the
truth this is appealing.) The problem is I'm not in the least
artistic. How can I make a simple, yet decorative set of brackets?

I looks at though a fairly simple jig could be made of the decorative
cuts in some sort of (ceramic?) guide, then the shape could be cut out
with a plasma cutter. This would leave straight welds, which I could
probably handle.

Am I way off base?

Thanks for any help.

It's ok to make fun. I deserve it by now. Anyone that would pour
concrete in 45 degree corners and not research the entire patio parts
list ahead of time should be made fun of. :-)

From this group, I've sort of settled on the Miller 625 plasma cutter
and the Miller 210 welder. The cost is still considerable less than
having the brackets made. What do ya think?

Regards.
Larry


Larry
Here is another idea that you may not have thought of. That is to post
your
location and ask if there is anyone on this NG who would be interested in
building them for you.

I've also posted this on the rec.crafts.metalworking newsgroup which is
another very helpful NG. Both of these NG's have some very capable people.

Good luck.




This was originally posted to the sci.engr.joining.welding newsgroup.\
I posted it here for the original poster.
Lane

"ldg" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 May 2005 20:04:09 -0700, "Lane" lane (no spam) at
copperaccents dot com wrote:


"ldg" wrote in message
. ..

I've been lurking this group for a few weeks in hope of answering my
own questions from your experience, but I'm a little to dense to solve
this apparently.

I need patio brackets.

I hired a guy to make plans for several additions to the house, one
being a tile covered patio. This patio looks simple enough on paper.
it has 6 posts, with 4 being at 45 degree angles. The framing is 6x6
lumber, and there are 2 large trusses made with these large beams that
span the 20 foot width.

The problem is no one seems to make 45 degree brackets to hold the
wood up.

My carpenter found a local blacksmith who can make the brackets, but
his schedule is such that I'm probably not going to get the thing done
this year. My wife is upset and that, believe me, is not a good
thing.

Anyone have any suggestions?

I did some welding about 30 years ago. I suppose I could buy an arc
welder and plasma cutter, then just do the job myself. (To tell the
truth this is appealing.) The problem is I'm not in the least
artistic. How can I make a simple, yet decorative set of brackets?

I looks at though a fairly simple jig could be made of the decorative
cuts in some sort of (ceramic?) guide, then the shape could be cut out
with a plasma cutter. This would leave straight welds, which I could
probably handle.

Am I way off base?

Thanks for any help.

It's ok to make fun. I deserve it by now. Anyone that would pour
concrete in 45 degree corners and not research the entire patio parts
list ahead of time should be made fun of. :-)

From this group, I've sort of settled on the Miller 625 plasma cutter
and the Miller 210 welder. The cost is still considerable less than
having the brackets made. What do ya think?

Regards.
Larry


Larry
Here is another idea that you may not have thought of. That is to post
your
location and ask if there is anyone on this NG who would be interested in
building them for you.

I've also posted this on the rec.crafts.metalworking newsgroup which is
another very helpful NG. Both of these NG's have some very capable people.

Good luck.


Thanks for the help! This is great!

Regards,
Larry

Where are you located Larry?

"ldg" wrote in message
...

I've been lurking this group for a few weeks in hope of answering my
own questions from your experience, but I'm a little to dense to solve
this apparently.

I need patio brackets.

I hired a guy to make plans for several additions to the house, one
being a tile covered patio. This patio looks simple enough on paper.
it has 6 posts, with 4 being at 45 degree angles. The framing is 6x6
lumber, and there are 2 large trusses made with these large beams that
span the 20 foot width.

The problem is no one seems to make 45 degree brackets to hold the
wood up.

My carpenter found a local blacksmith who can make the brackets, but
his schedule is such that I'm probably not going to get the thing done
this year. My wife is upset and that, believe me, is not a good
thing.

Anyone have any suggestions?

I did some welding about 30 years ago. I suppose I could buy an arc
welder and plasma cutter, then just do the job myself. (To tell the
truth this is appealing.) The problem is I'm not in the least
artistic. How can I make a simple, yet decorative set of brackets?

I looks at though a fairly simple jig could be made of the decorative
cuts in some sort of (ceramic?) guide, then the shape could be cut out
with a plasma cutter. This would leave straight welds, which I could
probably handle.

Am I way off base?

Thanks for any help.

It's ok to make fun. I deserve it by now. Anyone that would pour
concrete in 45 degree corners and not research the entire patio parts
list ahead of time should be made fun of. :-)

From this group, I've sort of settled on the Miller 625 plasma cutter
and the Miller 210 welder. The cost is still considerable less than
having the brackets made. What do ya think?

Regards.
Larry


From 1980 to 1993, I did ornamental metal and then progressed into steel
erection. I sold my business in 1993, and went and did some stints in the
Gulf of Mexico and overseas.

Fast forward to 2003. New wife. New situation. Wife says she wants to get
some security doors made for our new add on. 96" wide and 79" high. Two
doors. Some decorative castings. She said she paid $1600 each for the
other two already on the house.

I said, hell, I could buy a welder, and do them, and then own the welder for
all sorts of other ornamental metal projects, and just do them for material
costs.

So, I now have another shop with welding equipment, and I have made two
double security doors, one 28' wide by 7' high double gate for our
motorhome, about 30' of 7' high fencing with backing, and countless other
small projects that would have cost quite a bit.

If you are going to do much work, get the equipment, and do it yourself.
You get it when you want it. You get it how you want it. If you don't like
it, you buy some more material and do it again. The price is always right.
Many benefits from doing it yourself, price being the biggest. I have not
spent as much on tooling up as I would have spent on getting those things
built, and I still own all that equipment. If I wanted to, I could sell it,
and that would be another plus.

Don't overthink the thing. Most metalwork is Gawd awful strong compared to
what is needed, and if you have any engineering smarts at all, there is no
problem in building things that will hold the weight and last.

Problem is, when people find out you do it, they bug you to do work for
them. Practice your welding, and take some refresher courses to build up
your skill level.

People bitch about the price of steel, but compared to what a contractor
wants for a project, that steel cost starts looking REALLY cheap. But,
then, I think you are already seeing that.

Plus, if you can build this stuff and save lots of money, your wife treats
you better, and the dogs even like you more.

Steve

Lane wrote:
"ldg" wrote in message
...

I've been lurking this group for a few weeks in hope of answering my
own questions from your experience, but I'm a little to dense to solve
this apparently.

I need patio brackets.

I hired a guy to make plans for several additions to the house, one
being a tile covered patio. This patio looks simple enough on paper.
it has 6 posts, with 4 being at 45 degree angles. The framing is 6x6
lumber, and there are 2 large trusses made with these large beams that
span the 20 foot width.

The problem is no one seems to make 45 degree brackets to hold the
wood up.

My carpenter found a local blacksmith who can make the brackets, but
his schedule is such that I'm probably not going to get the thing done
this year. My wife is upset and that, believe me, is not a good
thing.

Anyone have any suggestions?

I did some welding about 30 years ago. I suppose I could buy an arc
welder and plasma cutter, then just do the job myself. (To tell the
truth this is appealing.) The problem is I'm not in the least
artistic. How can I make a simple, yet decorative set of brackets?

I looks at though a fairly simple jig could be made of the decorative
cuts in some sort of (ceramic?) guide, then the shape could be cut out
with a plasma cutter. This would leave straight welds, which I could
probably handle.

Am I way off base?

Thanks for any help.

It's ok to make fun. I deserve it by now. Anyone that would pour
concrete in 45 degree corners and not research the entire patio parts
list ahead of time should be made fun of. :-)

From this group, I've sort of settled on the Miller 625 plasma cutter
and the Miller 210 welder. The cost is still considerable less than
having the brackets made. What do ya think?

Regards.
Larry


Take a look at this website http://www.strongtie.com/
Simpson makes many types of beam hangers, some set at 45deg and some
adjustable. You can probably find what you want here.

Gary Brady
Austin, Tx

Start with the Simpson catalog. If they don't have one, then you're looking
at custom steel fabrication. If you can do it, do it. Else you're going to
wind up asking contractors who they use, and farming it out. It isn't so
much the cost as the delay, those guys can have delays of several weeks. I
live in the Seattle area and do this kind of work for some builders, owning
an ironworker and welder and having the requisite skills. I find that my
work is well valued. The commercial vendor in this area is Allied Steel
Fabricators in Redmond, Washington. But you probably don't live here. - GWE

Gary Brady wrote:

Lane wrote:

"ldg" wrote in message
...

I've been lurking this group for a few weeks in hope of answering my
own questions from your experience, but I'm a little to dense to solve
this apparently.

I need patio brackets.

I hired a guy to make plans for several additions to the house, one
being a tile covered patio. This patio looks simple enough on paper.
it has 6 posts, with 4 being at 45 degree angles. The framing is 6x6
lumber, and there are 2 large trusses made with these large beams that
span the 20 foot width.

The problem is no one seems to make 45 degree brackets to hold the
wood up.

My carpenter found a local blacksmith who can make the brackets, but
his schedule is such that I'm probably not going to get the thing done
this year. My wife is upset and that, believe me, is not a good
thing.

Anyone have any suggestions?

I did some welding about 30 years ago. I suppose I could buy an arc
welder and plasma cutter, then just do the job myself. (To tell the
truth this is appealing.) The problem is I'm not in the least
artistic. How can I make a simple, yet decorative set of brackets?

I looks at though a fairly simple jig could be made of the decorative
cuts in some sort of (ceramic?) guide, then the shape could be cut out
with a plasma cutter. This would leave straight welds, which I could
probably handle.

Am I way off base?

Thanks for any help.

It's ok to make fun. I deserve it by now. Anyone that would pour
concrete in 45 degree corners and not research the entire patio parts
list ahead of time should be made fun of. :-)

From this group, I've sort of settled on the Miller 625 plasma cutter
and the Miller 210 welder. The cost is still considerable less than
having the brackets made. What do ya think?

Regards.
Larry



Take a look at this website http://www.strongtie.com/
Simpson makes many types of beam hangers, some set at 45deg and some
adjustable. You can probably find what you want here.

Gary Brady
Austin, Tx

Take a look at this website http://www.strongtie.com/
Simpson makes many types of beam hangers, some set at 45deg and some
adjustable. You can probably find what you want here.

Gary Brady
Austin, Tx

Thanks Gary,

We've already talked to a commercial shop like this that makes most of
the brackets sold in this area (San Diego). Their bid for 6 simple
brackets was about $2500. I need 40.

The truss brackets will look something like this:
http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...USTOM_APG.html

but I'd imagine a blacksmith would cut a simple design on the ends.
These brackets will be way up high and no one will notice them, so
it's not all that necessary. These are custom brackets on the
strongtie web site, so they'll be expensive.

The most difficult area are the 45 degree angles:

http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/A-Z.html

If you look at the AA45 brackets in the picture, then imagine the top
cross beam being spit into two beams coming in at an angle (22.5) so
the total is 45 degrees. You could build a bracket on an angle
similar to the AA45 with a top plate at 45 with vertical bolts holding
things together. The bottom angle could have wrought iron or
something decorative since it will be a little above eye level.

Another approach would be to do something like this:
http://www.strongtie.com/products/co.../CCPC_APG.html

with a 45 degree channel on the top. Wouldn't be pretty, but it would
hold the wood in place.

Another consideration is that I live on a hill that gets really high
winds occasionally. Some years the wind gets so strong it pulls trees
out of the ground by the roots. This is the reason for the 6x6
framing. The tile roof will also add weight. These brackets need to
do their part as well.

Regards,
Larry

That bid isn't ridiculous. It simply needs to be interpreted correctly.
It says very clearly "I DON'T WANT THIS WORK UNLESS YOU ARE ****ING
DESPERATE".

I can make these for you and ship them to San Diego if you want.

Email me off list if you're interested. To do so, please note that my
'reply-to' address is completely bogus in every way and it is not possible
to infer my actual address from it. Please visit
http://www.tinyisland.com/email.html to email me.

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

ldg wrote:

We've already talked to a commercial shop like this that makes most of
the brackets sold in this area (San Diego). Their bid for 6 simple
brackets was about $2500. I need 40.

The truss brackets will look something like this:
http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...USTOM_APG.html

but I'd imagine a blacksmith would cut a simple design on the ends.
These brackets will be way up high and no one will notice them, so
it's not all that necessary. These are custom brackets on the
strongtie web site, so they'll be expensive.

The most difficult area are the 45 degree angles:

http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/A-Z.html

If you look at the AA45 brackets in the picture, then imagine the top
cross beam being spit into two beams coming in at an angle (22.5) so
the total is 45 degrees. You could build a bracket on an angle
similar to the AA45 with a top plate at 45 with vertical bolts holding
things together. The bottom angle could have wrought iron or
something decorative since it will be a little above eye level.

Another approach would be to do something like this:
http://www.strongtie.com/products/co.../CCPC_APG.html

with a 45 degree channel on the top. Wouldn't be pretty, but it would
hold the wood in place.

Another consideration is that I live on a hill that gets really high
winds occasionally. Some years the wind gets so strong it pulls trees
out of the ground by the roots. This is the reason for the 6x6
framing. The tile roof will also add weight. These brackets need to
do their part as well.

Regards,
Larry

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
That bid isn't ridiculous. It simply needs to be interpreted correctly.
It says very clearly "I DON'T WANT THIS WORK UNLESS YOU ARE ****ING
DESPERATE".

I can make these for you and ship them to San Diego if you want.

Email me off list if you're interested. To do so, please note that my
'reply-to' address is completely bogus in every way and it is not possible
to infer my actual address from it. Please visit
http://www.tinyisland.com/email.html to email me.

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington


Larry,

Just in case you need it, I can verify that Grant does this, as I've helped
him load some custom made brackets into a contractors van one day when he
hosted a local groups meeting. Grant is the real deal, and he'll treat you
right.

Lane

ldg wrote:

Take a look at this website http://www.strongtie.com/
Simpson makes many types of beam hangers, some set at 45deg and some
adjustable. You can probably find what you want here.

Gary Brady
Austin, Tx


Thanks Gary,

We've already talked to a commercial shop like this that makes most of
the brackets sold in this area (San Diego). Their bid for 6 simple
brackets was about $2500. I need 40.

Geez, maybe I need to move back out to San Diego..

John

If they are just flat steel plate cut to a shape similar to the one shown
at http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...USTOM_APG.html
then just draw up what you want on a CAD program and find a local laser
cutter to cut them from flat mild steel.
If you supply them a DXF drawing, they don't have to do much except tut it
on the machine and invoice you. This keeps costs down quite well. Laser
cutting is fast and cheap and has more than enough accuracy for your
application. If you can't draw it your self, or get it done locally, draw it
on paper with dimensions,scan it, and email it to me and I'll email you a
DXF format drawing at no charge.

Tom



"Lane" lane (no spam) at copperaccents dot com wrote in message
...

"ldg" wrote in message
...

I've been lurking this group for a few weeks in hope of answering my
own questions from your experience, but I'm a little to dense to solve
this apparently.

I need patio brackets.

I hired a guy to make plans for several additions to the house, one
being a tile covered patio. This patio looks simple enough on paper.
it has 6 posts, with 4 being at 45 degree angles. The framing is 6x6
lumber, and there are 2 large trusses made with these large beams that
span the 20 foot width.

The problem is no one seems to make 45 degree brackets to hold the
wood up.

My carpenter found a local blacksmith who can make the brackets, but
his schedule is such that I'm probably not going to get the thing done
this year. My wife is upset and that, believe me, is not a good
thing.

Anyone have any suggestions?

I did some welding about 30 years ago. I suppose I could buy an arc
welder and plasma cutter, then just do the job myself. (To tell the
truth this is appealing.) The problem is I'm not in the least
artistic. How can I make a simple, yet decorative set of brackets?

I looks at though a fairly simple jig could be made of the decorative
cuts in some sort of (ceramic?) guide, then the shape could be cut out
with a plasma cutter. This would leave straight welds, which I could
probably handle.

Am I way off base?

Thanks for any help.

It's ok to make fun. I deserve it by now. Anyone that would pour
concrete in 45 degree corners and not research the entire patio parts
list ahead of time should be made fun of. :-)

From this group, I've sort of settled on the Miller 625 plasma cutter
and the Miller 210 welder. The cost is still considerable less than
having the brackets made. What do ya think?

Regards.
Larry


Larry
Here is another idea that you may not have thought of. That is to post
your
location and ask if there is anyone on this NG who would be interested in
building them for you.

I've also posted this on the rec.crafts.metalworking newsgroup which is
another very helpful NG. Both of these NG's have some very capable people.

Good luck.

ldg wrote:

Their bid for 6 simple
brackets was about $2500. I need 40.

The truss brackets will look something like this:
http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...USTOM_APG.html

Oh my Good!
I will make all 40 for that price and even send them to you free (from
Germany that is).

Are they nuts?


Nick
--
WDR Fernsehen:
"Ein Computer arbeitet so lange Befehle ab,
bis keine mehr vorhanden sind."
Muss ich die dann irgendwie nachfüllen?

ldg wrote:


Thanks Gary,

We've already talked to a commercial shop like this that makes most of
the brackets sold in this area (San Diego). Their bid for 6 simple
brackets was about $2500. I need 40.

The truss brackets will look something like this:
http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...USTOM_APG.html

You know, there is an outfit here called Trueform Metalservice that made
some brackets similar to this for a friend of mine a few years ago,
and I was shocked at how cheap they were. This business has some sort
of CNC cutting and forming equipment that apparently requires no hands
on labor. I believe a CAD drawing is required, though. Surely there's a
shop around San Diego that has similar equipment. Or if you want to
shop cross country, I could find you their phone number.

Gary Brady
Austin, TX

On Mon, 23 May 2005 02:45:28 -0400, the inscrutable JohnM
spake:

ldg wrote:

Take a look at this website http://www.strongtie.com/
Simpson makes many types of beam hangers, some set at 45deg and some
adjustable. You can probably find what you want here.

Gary Brady
Austin, Tx


Thanks Gary,

We've already talked to a commercial shop like this that makes most of
the brackets sold in this area (San Diego). Their bid for 6 simple
brackets was about $2500. I need 40.

Geez, maybe I need to move back out to San Diego..

A friend of mine lives in Olivenhain. He sent a flyer for lots (bare,
untouched land) in Rancho Santa Fe. They're going for a cool $2.5
million. Check your email for a copy, then reconsider.

-
The only reason I would take up exercising is || http://diversify.com
so that I could hear heavy breathing again. || Programmed Websites

On Mon, 23 May 2005 12:06:52 GMT, Gary Brady
wrote:

ldg wrote:


Thanks Gary,

We've already talked to a commercial shop like this that makes most of
the brackets sold in this area (San Diego). Their bid for 6 simple
brackets was about $2500. I need 40.

The truss brackets will look something like this:
http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...USTOM_APG.html

You know, there is an outfit here called Trueform Metalservice that made
some brackets similar to this for a friend of mine a few years ago,
and I was shocked at how cheap they were. This business has some sort
of CNC cutting and forming equipment that apparently requires no hands
on labor. I believe a CAD drawing is required, though. Surely there's a
shop around San Diego that has similar equipment. Or if you want to
shop cross country, I could find you their phone number.

Gary Brady
Austin, TX

Ive got a waterjet cutting company that might give you a Gunner
Discount if need be. California.

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown

"JohnM" wrote

Geez, maybe I need to move back out to San Diego..

John

Consider that for a moment .............

HIGH Property taxes
HIGH Sales taxes
HIGH Corporate taxes
HIGH Employee taxes
HIGH Industrial insurance rates
HIGH EVERYTHING.

This poor schmuck was probably making a buck fifty after paying all the
overhead.

You say, "back" to San Diego. Remember how it was?

It's far worse now.

A friend of mine is a roofing contractor. He pays $1.93 industrial
insurance for every $1 of wages.

Steve

On Mon, 23 May 2005 17:35:34 +1000, "Tom Miller"
wrote:

If they are just flat steel plate cut to a shape similar to the one shown
at http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...USTOM_APG.html
then just draw up what you want on a CAD program and find a local laser
cutter to cut them from flat mild steel.
If you supply them a DXF drawing, they don't have to do much except tut it
on the machine and invoice you. This keeps costs down quite well. Laser
cutting is fast and cheap and has more than enough accuracy for your
application. If you can't draw it your self, or get it done locally, draw it
on paper with dimensions,scan it, and email it to me and I'll email you a
DXF format drawing at no charge.

This is a great idea. If I could find a source for Corel or Autocad
compatible metal decoration, I could draw decorative tails on the
brackets - the laser could care less.

Just thinking out loud.

Regards,
Larry