Greetings all,
I have been toying with the idea of upgrading my welding capabilities with
one of the Licoln Precision TIG welders for a while. I currently do a fair
amount of stick welding and oxyacetylene welding, cutting and brazing. I saw
these machines being demonstrated at the last EAA Oshkosh show I attended
and was suitably impressed.

My needs are primarily hobby-based, not production. I'm not really planning
on earning a living with this thing. The kind of stuff I do have included in
the past:
- wood-fired hot water boiler for shop heating, fabricated out of 1/4" steel
plate
- homebuilt aircraft construction
- tractor restoration
- fabrication of components for high vacuum systems and plasma systems for
my research at the university

Materials of interest are aluminum alloys, stainless steel, and the
occasional copper components. Generally, fine control is likely to be more
important than brute force welding of heavy materials...I am thinking
aircraft welding, body work, stainless vacuum components with flanges (1/8"
wall or so), etc. I can always fall back to stick and O/A to join the big
stuff.

I know the basic concepts behind TIG processes, but have little experience.
The Precicion TIG 185 systems look like a nice compact unit
(http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...et.asp?p=12813),
but the 275 is also nice
(http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...eet.asp?p=5408).

I have 100 amps of 208 available in my shop. Maybe the 275 unit is too
beefy? At what point does a water-cooled torch become important versus the
air cooled torch? Is the "advanced control panel" (w/adjustable pulse
frequency, on time, background current controls, downslope timer, and other
stuff) likely to be useful, or wasted on a TIG neophyte? And what are the
typical upper limits of material that can be handled by such units (5-185A
DC for the 185 vs 2-340A DC for the 275), for the odd job where a
substantial aluminum or stainless weldment must be joined?

Thank you for any replies,
Al

I like mine fine. It's not built for heavy duty TIG, but it does all
the work a 70+ year old can handle. I sold all my heavy equipment.
Bugs

Use Google and look for comments by Ernie. He teaches welding at a
community college. The Lincoln welders are great, and I think they
include more advanced controls as standard than Miller. The water
cooled torch becomes important at higher currents. The 185 will
probably be as much as you need for stainless. Stainless does not
conduct heat as well as regular steel so less current is needed.
Aluminum is where the extra current is needed.

If I were you, I would also look at inverter welders. They are smaller
and lighter. I forget which one Ernie says is the best buy. Most
inverter welders do not provide AC, and are therefore not especially
good for Aluminum. But one of them does ( not Miller or Lincoln ).

Dan

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:10:41 GMT, "Alan Raisanen"
wrote:

Greetings all,
I have been toying with the idea of upgrading my welding capabilities with
one of the Licoln Precision TIG welders for a while. I currently do a fair
amount of stick welding and oxyacetylene welding, cutting and brazing. I saw
these machines being demonstrated at the last EAA Oshkosh show I attended
and was suitably impressed.

My needs are primarily hobby-based, not production. I'm not really planning
on earning a living with this thing. The kind of stuff I do have included in
the past:
- wood-fired hot water boiler for shop heating, fabricated out of 1/4" steel
plate
- homebuilt aircraft construction
- tractor restoration
- fabrication of components for high vacuum systems and plasma systems for
my research at the university

Materials of interest are aluminum alloys, stainless steel, and the
occasional copper components. Generally, fine control is likely to be more
important than brute force welding of heavy materials...I am thinking
aircraft welding, body work, stainless vacuum components with flanges (1/8"
wall or so), etc. I can always fall back to stick and O/A to join the big
stuff.

I know the basic concepts behind TIG processes, but have little experience.
The Precicion TIG 185 systems look like a nice compact unit
(http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...et.asp?p=12813),
but the 275 is also nice
(http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...eet.asp?p=5408).

I have 100 amps of 208 available in my shop. Maybe the 275 unit is too
beefy? At what point does a water-cooled torch become important versus the
air cooled torch? Is the "advanced control panel" (w/adjustable pulse
frequency, on time, background current controls, downslope timer, and other
stuff) likely to be useful, or wasted on a TIG neophyte? And what are the
typical upper limits of material that can be handled by such units (5-185A
DC for the 185 vs 2-340A DC for the 275), for the odd job where a
substantial aluminum or stainless weldment must be joined?

The 275 won't overload your 100-amp service. I think the 185 would
serve your needs well for far less $. You'd need the higher
current of the 275 for prolonged welding of heavy aluminum, but you
could certainly do up to 3/16" aluminum with the 185. You could
probably do 1/4" al though it might take a bit longer and/or require
multiple passes. If you plan to do a lot of work with 1/4" or
larger aluminum then you'll want the bigger machine. Otherwise, I
think the 185 would be quite sufficient. It'll do 1/4" stainless and
mild steel very nicely.

Note that the 185 has only a 15% dutycycle at full current. That's
based on a 10-minute cycle, so 8.5 minutes "rest" after 1.5 minutes of
arc time at full load. That could be a serious issue in a production
shop, but probably a non-issue for your use. 1.5 minutes is a lot of
continuous arc time for hobby work.

A water-cooled torch is not necessary, but they are very nice for
small work because they're physically small and easy to handle.
They're also nice in that you don't have to wait for them to cool
before changing tungstens -- and you'll do a lot of that at first with
TIG. When (not if) you dunk the tungsten you must stop, break off
the contaminated tip and regrind it.

They aren't expensive; the Weldcraft WP-25 might be a good choice at
a bit over $100. You don't need a full-blown water cooler, just a
pump and a bucket. You can get a refurbished ProCon coolant pump
for $118:
http://www.arc-zone.com/catalog/web_...=6738010_22723

wrote in message
oups.com...


If I were you, I would also look at inverter welders. They are smaller
and lighter. I forget which one Ernie says is the best buy. Most
inverter welders do not provide AC, and are therefore not especially
good for Aluminum. But one of them does ( not Miller or Lincoln ).


On Ernie's recommendation I bought a Thermal Arc 185 TSW, which I'm guessing
is the machine to which you're referring. AC, DC, pulsing, sequencing, very
small and light, and of course, it's exceedingly purple. I like mine.

Peter

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
snip----

They aren't expensive; the Weldcraft WP-25 might be a good choice at
a bit over $100. You don't need a full-blown water cooler, just a
pump and a bucket. You can get a refurbished ProCon coolant pump
for $118:

I have always used a hookup to our culinary water for my torch, and run the
small amount of water involved to waste. It works fine and eliminates the
need for a pump and cooling unit. May not be good for everyone, but it
works for me.

Harold

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:10:41 GMT, "Alan Raisanen"
wrote:

Greetings all,
I have been toying with the idea of upgrading my welding capabilities
with
one of the Licoln Precision TIG welders for a while. I currently do a
fair
amount of stick welding and oxyacetylene welding, cutting and brazing. I
saw
these machines being demonstrated at the last EAA Oshkosh show I attended
and was suitably impressed.

My needs are primarily hobby-based, not production. I'm not really
planning
on earning a living with this thing. The kind of stuff I do have included
in
the past:
- wood-fired hot water boiler for shop heating, fabricated out of 1/4"
steel
plate
- homebuilt aircraft construction
- tractor restoration
- fabrication of components for high vacuum systems and plasma systems
for
my research at the university

Materials of interest are aluminum alloys, stainless steel, and the
occasional copper components. Generally, fine control is likely to be
more
important than brute force welding of heavy materials...I am thinking
aircraft welding, body work, stainless vacuum components with flanges
(1/8"
wall or so), etc. I can always fall back to stick and O/A to join the big
stuff.

I know the basic concepts behind TIG processes, but have little
experience.
The Precicion TIG 185 systems look like a nice compact unit

(http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...et.asp?p=12813),
but the 275 is also nice
(http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...eet.asp?p=5408).

I have 100 amps of 208 available in my shop. Maybe the 275 unit is too
beefy? At what point does a water-cooled torch become important versus
the
air cooled torch? Is the "advanced control panel" (w/adjustable pulse
frequency, on time, background current controls, downslope timer, and
other
stuff) likely to be useful, or wasted on a TIG neophyte? And what are the
typical upper limits of material that can be handled by such units
(5-185A
DC for the 185 vs 2-340A DC for the 275), for the odd job where a
substantial aluminum or stainless weldment must be joined?

The 275 won't overload your 100-amp service. I think the 185 would
serve your needs well for far less $. You'd need the higher
current of the 275 for prolonged welding of heavy aluminum, but you
could certainly do up to 3/16" aluminum with the 185. You could
probably do 1/4" al though it might take a bit longer and/or require
multiple passes. If you plan to do a lot of work with 1/4" or
larger aluminum then you'll want the bigger machine. Otherwise, I
think the 185 would be quite sufficient. It'll do 1/4" stainless and
mild steel very nicely.

Note that the 185 has only a 15% dutycycle at full current. That's
based on a 10-minute cycle, so 8.5 minutes "rest" after 1.5 minutes of
arc time at full load. That could be a serious issue in a production
shop, but probably a non-issue for your use. 1.5 minutes is a lot of
continuous arc time for hobby work.

A water-cooled torch is not necessary, but they are very nice for
small work because they're physically small and easy to handle.
They're also nice in that you don't have to wait for them to cool
before changing tungstens -- and you'll do a lot of that at first with
TIG. When (not if) you dunk the tungsten you must stop, break off
the contaminated tip and regrind it.

They aren't expensive; the Weldcraft WP-25 might be a good choice at
a bit over $100. You don't need a full-blown water cooler, just a
pump and a bucket. You can get a refurbished ProCon coolant pump
for $118:

http://www.arc-zone.com/catalog/web_...=6738010_22723

That is only useful if you have one to exchange, otherwise it's $238 for the
new one. Seems like Ernie had a place to buy one new for less.

William....

In article , Harold and Susan Vordos
wrote:

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
snip----

They aren't expensive; the Weldcraft WP-25 might be a good choice at
a bit over $100. You don't need a full-blown water cooler, just a
pump and a bucket. You can get a refurbished ProCon coolant pump
for $118:

I have always used a hookup to our culinary water for my torch, and run the
small amount of water involved to waste. It works fine and eliminates the
need for a pump and cooling unit. May not be good for everyone, but it
works for me.

Harold



As long as you run a filter on the line.
Otherwise you can get a buildup in the torchhead.

It is what I have been doing for 12 years.

In article FIm8e.20632$xL4.8841@attbi_s72, William
wrote:

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:10:41 GMT, "Alan Raisanen"
wrote:


You don't need a full-blown water cooler, just a
pump and a bucket. You can get a refurbished ProCon coolant pump
for $118:

http://www.arc-zone.com/catalog/web_...=6738010_22723

That is only useful if you have one to exchange, otherwise it's $238 for the
new one. Seems like Ernie had a place to buy one new for less.

William....



Water pump info

You need 50 psi water pressure to get the water through the head.

You can buy just the pump and build your own water cooler with a 5
gallon water bucket.

These guys sell the pumps direct

Depco Pump Company
2145 Calumet St
Clearwater FL 33765
Phone: 727.446.1656
800.446.1656
Fax: 727.446.7867

Business Hours: -Monday thru Friday 7:30 AM to 5:30 PM ---Eastern Time

Tell them you are interested in the constant pressure gear pumps used
for welding water coolers.

They have an Italian brand that works very well called Fluido-tec.


Procon replacement
Fluido-tec PA301X-100PSI $86.36

Oberdorfer
1000R-39 $139

These pumps require a 1/3 HP 1750 RPM motor

Another source is Grainger

Product Category: Pumps & Plumbing Pumps Gear Pumps
Description: Bronze Carbonator-Mount Rotary Gear Pump Head without
Adjustable
Relief Valve, 1/4 inch connectors

Your Price: $108.25
Grainger Item#: 2P381
Manufacturer: TEEL
Mfg. Model#: CBN2
Catalog Page: 3270

www.Grainger.com

The pump model used by Tweco is:
Procon #101C100F11B060
100 Gal per Hour @ 60 PSI

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote in message
...
In article , Harold and Susan Vordos
wrote:

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
snip----

They aren't expensive; the Weldcraft WP-25 might be a good choice at
a bit over $100. You don't need a full-blown water cooler, just a
pump and a bucket. You can get a refurbished ProCon coolant pump
for $118:

I have always used a hookup to our culinary water for my torch, and run
the
small amount of water involved to waste. It works fine and eliminates
the
need for a pump and cooling unit. May not be good for everyone, but
it
works for me.

Harold



As long as you run a filter on the line.
Otherwise you can get a buildup in the torchhead.

It is what I have been doing for 12 years.

Good point, and I thank you for the tip. I didn't have a filter when I
resided in Utah, but our water system here is filtered, so I'm likely in
pretty good shape.

When I built the shop I installed a water hookup at the welding station,
plus a discharge line that goes to our rain catch basin. Everything is
concealed in the wall, so it's a clean setup. Interestingly, I've never
assembled the system, but I'm in process right now---I have to weld some
stainless pipe to steel pipe, plus attach some mounting brackets. I'm
putting a couple antennas on the roof of the new house we're building, and
they're being mounted to the reinforced trusses instead of surface mounting
them. That will eliminate the need for guy wires and multiple holes in the
roof. I don't want any leaks to deal with in the future.

The stainless portion of the 1-1/2" pipe will be above the roof, with the
steel pipe in the attic space, where a little rust makes no difference. The
pipe in the attic runs from the top to bottom chord of the trusses, which
have been braced to prevent any movement. The antenna masts will be mounted
by bolts, not nailed. I intend to TIG, with 308 filler for the dissimilar
metal connection, and 70S 2 for the all steel connections. If you see
any problems with my plan, I'd appreciate some guidance.

Harold

In article , Harold and Susan Vordos
wrote:

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote in message
...
In article , Harold and Susan Vordos
wrote:

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
snip----

They aren't expensive; the Weldcraft WP-25 might be a good choice at
a bit over $100. You don't need a full-blown water cooler, just a
pump and a bucket. You can get a refurbished ProCon coolant pump
for $118:

I have always used a hookup to our culinary water for my torch, and run
the
small amount of water involved to waste. It works fine and eliminates
the
need for a pump and cooling unit. May not be good for everyone, but
it
works for me.

Harold



As long as you run a filter on the line.
Otherwise you can get a buildup in the torchhead.

It is what I have been doing for 12 years.

Good point, and I thank you for the tip. I didn't have a filter when I
resided in Utah, but our water system here is filtered, so I'm likely in
pretty good shape.

When I built the shop I installed a water hookup at the welding station,
plus a discharge line that goes to our rain catch basin. Everything is
concealed in the wall, so it's a clean setup. Interestingly, I've never
assembled the system, but I'm in process right now---I have to weld some
stainless pipe to steel pipe, plus attach some mounting brackets. I'm
putting a couple antennas on the roof of the new house we're building, and
they're being mounted to the reinforced trusses instead of surface mounting
them. That will eliminate the need for guy wires and multiple holes in the
roof. I don't want any leaks to deal with in the future.

The stainless portion of the 1-1/2" pipe will be above the roof, with the
steel pipe in the attic space, where a little rust makes no difference. The
pipe in the attic runs from the top to bottom chord of the trusses, which
have been braced to prevent any movement. The antenna masts will be mounted
by bolts, not nailed. I intend to TIG, with 308 filler for the dissimilar
metal connection, and 70S 2 for the all steel connections. If you see
any problems with my plan, I'd appreciate some guidance.

Harold



Get some 309L for the dissimilar metals joints.
It works much better for such things.

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote in message
...
In article , Harold and Susan Vordos
wrote:

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote in message
...
In article , Harold and Susan Vordos
wrote:

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
snip----

They aren't expensive; the Weldcraft WP-25 might be a good
choice at
a bit over $100. You don't need a full-blown water cooler, just
a
pump and a bucket. You can get a refurbished ProCon coolant
pump
for $118:

I have always used a hookup to our culinary water for my torch, and
run
the
small amount of water involved to waste. It works fine and
eliminates
the
need for a pump and cooling unit. May not be good for everyone,
but
it
works for me.

Harold



As long as you run a filter on the line.
Otherwise you can get a buildup in the torchhead.

It is what I have been doing for 12 years.

Good point, and I thank you for the tip. I didn't have a filter when I
resided in Utah, but our water system here is filtered, so I'm likely in
pretty good shape.

When I built the shop I installed a water hookup at the welding station,
plus a discharge line that goes to our rain catch basin. Everything is
concealed in the wall, so it's a clean setup. Interestingly, I've
never
assembled the system, but I'm in process right now---I have to weld some
stainless pipe to steel pipe, plus attach some mounting brackets. I'm
putting a couple antennas on the roof of the new house we're building,
and
they're being mounted to the reinforced trusses instead of surface
mounting
them. That will eliminate the need for guy wires and multiple holes in
the
roof. I don't want any leaks to deal with in the future.

The stainless portion of the 1-1/2" pipe will be above the roof, with
the
steel pipe in the attic space, where a little rust makes no difference.
The
pipe in the attic runs from the top to bottom chord of the trusses,
which
have been braced to prevent any movement. The antenna masts will be
mounted
by bolts, not nailed. I intend to TIG, with 308 filler for the
dissimilar
metal connection, and 70S 2 for the all steel connections. If you
see
any problems with my plan, I'd appreciate some guidance.

Harold



Get some 309L for the dissimilar metals joints.
It works much better for such things.

Thanks, Ernie. I'll check with the two suppliers in "the big city" on
Tuesday for some 309L..

Harold

Thanks for the information, gentlemen. I'm leaning towards the 275, I will
go talk to my local supplier tomorrow and see what kind of prices they are
quoting. Looking forward to learning a new technique!

Al