Why is it that tool kits (drill bit sets, screwdriver sets, etc.) made in
the US never include Robinson bits? They are far superior to Phillips or
slot drivers. Just curious.

D'oh, that should be Robertson...


"Tellmeaboutit" wrote in message
news:e_UNd.32437$gA4.21345@edtnps89...
Why is it that tool kits (drill bit sets, screwdriver sets, etc.) made in
the US never include Robinson bits? They are far superior to Phillips or
slot drivers. Just curious.

"Tellmeaboutit" wrote in message
news:e_UNd.32437$gA4.21345@edtnps89...
Why is it that tool kits (drill bit sets, screwdriver sets, etc.) made in
the US never include Robinson bits? They are far superior to Phillips or
slot drivers. Just curious.

Because a Canadian invented them and the US is too stubborn to let them in!

: )

Noozer wrote:
"Tellmeaboutit" wrote in message
news:e_UNd.32437$gA4.21345@edtnps89...
Why is it that tool kits (drill bit sets, screwdriver sets, etc.)
made in the US never include Robinson bits? They are far superior
to Phillips or slot drivers. Just curious.

Because a Canadian invented them and the US is too stubborn to let
them in!


That's not it. Robertson bits/screws are denominated in metric. We use
Imperial measures. Except for spark plugs, of course.

"Tellmeaboutit" wrote in message
news:e_UNd.32437$gA4.21345@edtnps89...
Why is it that tool kits (drill bit sets, screwdriver sets, etc.) made in
the US never include Robinson bits? They are far superior to Phillips or
slot drivers. Just curious.




Strange, I find them all over, not at the home centers, but at places that
sell real tools and cater to professionals.
Greg

Greg O wrote:


"Tellmeaboutit" wrote in message
news:e_UNd.32437$gA4.21345@edtnps89...
Why is it that tool kits (drill bit sets, screwdriver sets, etc.) made in
the US never include Robinson bits? They are far superior to Phillips or
slot drivers. Just curious.




Strange, I find them all over, not at the home centers, but at places that
sell real tools and cater to professionals.
Greg

Most HO's do not need overpriced 'real' tools. ie: My black and decker
jigsaw and router are over 25 years old and still run like new.

martik wrote:
Greg O wrote:


"Tellmeaboutit" wrote in message
news:e_UNd.32437$gA4.21345@edtnps89...

Why is it that tool kits (drill bit sets, screwdriver sets, etc.) made in
the US never include Robinson bits? They are far superior to Phillips or
slot drivers. Just curious.




Strange, I find them all over, not at the home centers, but at places that
sell real tools and cater to professionals.
Greg


Most HO's do not need overpriced 'real' tools. ie: My black and decker
jigsaw and router are over 25 years old and still run like new.

25 years ago Black & Decker were real tools. Buy one today and get back
to me in 2030 and let me know how that Chinese crap is holding up.
Dave
(BTW I bet your old B&D's will still be humming along.

In article , "JerryMouse" wrote:

That's not it. Robertson bits/screws are denominated in metric. We use
Imperial measures. Except for spark plugs, of course.

Huh?

1) Robertson screwdrivers are denominated as #0, #1, #2, #3, etc just like
Phillips screwdrivers. Metric has nothing to do with it.

2) Robertson screws come in the same variety of sizes and lengths as any other
screw, and are denominated in exactly the same fashion, e.g. a 6-32 x 3/4"
machine screw.

3) Metric dimensions and labelling have not proven to be an impediment to the
importation, manufacture, and use in the U.S. of plenty of metric bolts and
wrenches.

4) The spark plugs most widely used in the U.S. have 5/8" or 13/16" hex heads.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 01:56:52 GMT, "Tellmeaboutit"
wrote:

D'oh, that should be Robertson...

"Tellmeaboutit" wrote in message
news:e_UNd.32437$gA4.21345@edtnps89...
Why is it that tool kits (drill bit sets, screwdriver sets, etc.) made in
the US never include Robinson bits? They are far superior to Phillips or
slot drivers. Just curious.

I am curious as to why they don't seem to use the name Robertson any
more, but call them square drive instead. Wouldn't that be like
calling Phillips, + drive?

On 2/8/2005 8:38 AM US(ET), Alan took fingers to keys, and typed the
following:

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 01:56:52 GMT, "Tellmeaboutit"
wrote:



D'oh, that should be Robertson...

"Tellmeaboutit" wrote in message
news:e_UNd.32437$gA4.21345@edtnps89...


Why is it that tool kits (drill bit sets, screwdriver sets, etc.) made in
the US never include Robinson bits? They are far superior to Phillips or
slot drivers. Just curious.



I am curious as to why they don't seem to use the name Robertson any
more, but call them square drive instead. Wouldn't that be like
calling Phillips, + drive?

I didn't know what Robertson screws were, but it seems I have been using
them for a few years.
I used square drive screws on my vinyl fencing, deck, and other projects
around the house. I've used coated, aluminum, and stainless steel screws.
I haven't seen a square drive screwdriver, but I haven't been looking
for one, since I have square drive bits for my cordless and also for my
Stanley replaceable bit screwdriver. I am looking at two bits now. One
has 'SQ2' stamped on it and the other has 'R2' stamped on it. I guess
the 'R' stands for Robertson?

--
Bill

Robinson screws and screwdrivers are a Canadian invention that were made in
Milton Ontario, as far as I'm concerned they are far superior to other screw
types as they rarely strip or skip, how many other screws can you start with
one hand (just holding the screw driver while the screw stays on the end)
and how many screws can you hold upside down. As I'm sure many of you
already know Robinson screws are #ed and coloured from smallest to largest
Yellow, Green, Red, Black (Red being #2 and most common).

Oh ya the Robinson never took off in the States because Robinson wouldn't
allow places like FORD to purchase his patent rights to use on their cars,
Philips on the other hand would and was an American invention so it took off
on the US side, in Canada if you do electrical you use the full gamete of
Robinson colours.

Doug Miller wrote:
3) Metric dimensions and labelling have not proven to be an impediment to the
importation, manufacture, and use in the U.S. of plenty of metric bolts and
wrenches.

Except, of course, for the size you urgently need now.

--

In Memoriam: Julius the cat April 1, 1993 - February 3, 2005

I have Robertson bits that were part of a Black & Decker set bought in
the US.

Perce


On 02/07/05 08:55 pm Tellmeaboutit tossed the following ingredients into
the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Why is it that tool kits (drill bit sets, screwdriver sets, etc.) made in
the US never include Robinson bits? They are far superior to Phillips or
slot drivers. Just curious.

Alan wrote in
:

I am curious as to why they don't seem to use the name Robertson any
more, but call them square drive instead. Wouldn't that be like
calling Phillips, + drive?

Robertson is a brand (and company) name -- they are the only ones allowed
to use that name. Now that the original patent has expired, anyone can
build screws and screwdrivers, but they still have no choice but to use a
generic term such as "square drive".

For what it's worth, I still buy Robertson brand tools and screws whenever
possible -- their quality is excellent. Lots of knock-off "square drive"
screwdrivers (and screws) are complete junk.

....

"Tellmeaboutit" wrote in message
news:e_UNd.32437$gA4.21345@edtnps89...

but I have *never* seen a Robertson screwdriver in any store in the
US. ]

Sears sells them
tony D.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.854 / Virus Database: 582 - Release Date: 2/4/05

"martik" wrote in message

Most HO's do not need overpriced 'real' tools. ie: My black and decker
jigsaw and router are over 25 years old and still run like new.

What do you mean by overpriced? Sure, they cost more, but you get more,
Better, larger bearings, better motors, lots of things not visible just
looking at the outside of the case. You won't find a pro doing good work
with a B & D jig saw, he'll probably have a Bosch or Milwaukee that cuts
smoother, has faster blade changes, last longer. Most homeowners don't need
that. Your 25 y ears of use may be what a prod does in a couple of weeks.

"Dave Morrison" wrote in message
...
martik wrote:
Greg O wrote:


"Tellmeaboutit" wrote in message
news:e_UNd.32437$gA4.21345@edtnps89...

Why is it that tool kits (drill bit sets, screwdriver sets, etc.) made
in
the US never include Robinson bits? They are far superior to Phillips
or
slot drivers. Just curious.




Strange, I find them all over, not at the home centers, but at places
that
sell real tools and cater to professionals.
Greg


Most HO's do not need overpriced 'real' tools. ie: My black and decker
jigsaw and router are over 25 years old and still run like new.

25 years ago Black & Decker were real tools. Buy one today and get back to
me in 2030 and let me know how that Chinese crap is holding up.
Dave
(BTW I bet your old B&D's will still be humming along.


I have an old B&D circular saw. It is all silver on the outside, but
believe it is aluminum rather than silver. I need to research on how old it
is. I found it in a big rolling wooden box with lots of other old
woodworking equipment. It still runs, and I believe it is at least 25 years
old.

Steve

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
m...
In article , "JerryMouse"
wrote:

That's not it. Robertson bits/screws are denominated in metric. We use
Imperial measures. Except for spark plugs, of course.

Huh?


And adjustable wrenches. I don't believe I've ever seen a metric adjustable
wrench.

Steve ;-)

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:Lt5Od.51407$mt.45256@fed1read03...



And adjustable wrenches. I don't believe I've ever seen a metric
adjustable wrench.

Steve ;-)

I have one that proudly states it is 250 mm. It is about 10" long.

Bondhus makes ball end square drive screwdrivers that work either 25°
or 15° off axis. Handles are color coded identifying the size.

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 07:53:31 -0800, "Anthony Diodati"
wrote:

...

"Tellmeaboutit" wrote in message
news:e_UNd.32437$gA4.21345@edtnps89...

but I have *never* seen a Robertson screwdriver in any store in the
US. ]

Sears sells them
tony D.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.854 / Virus Database: 582 - Release Date: 2/4/05

"Tellmeaboutit" wrote:
Why is it that tool kits (drill bit sets, screwdriver sets, etc.) made in
the US never include Robinson bits? They are far superior to Phillips or
slot drivers. Just curious.

Probably for the same reason they don't include Torx bits -- in the US, they're
a specialty product, and the vast majority of purchasers would have zero use for
them. It's certainly not difficult to buy them if you need them.

JerryMouse wrote:

Noozer wrote:

"Tellmeaboutit" wrote in message
news:e_UNd.32437$gA4.21345@edtnps89...

Why is it that tool kits (drill bit sets, screwdriver sets, etc.)
made in the US never include Robinson bits? They are far superior
to Phillips or slot drivers. Just curious.

Because a Canadian invented them and the US is too stubborn to let
them in!



That's not it. Robertson bits/screws are denominated in metric. We use
Imperial measures. Except for spark plugs, of course.


Not true. Robertson screws have been used in Canada for well
over sixty years. Apparently Henry Ford was interested in
them for his assembly line but wanted full and exclusive
ownership of the design. Robertson, the inventor, would not
go for that and as a consequence Ford declined to use them.
Then along came the Phillips design and it became the
American sweetheart because it was invented by an American
and was somewhat superior to the common slotted screw.

not in the kits? show me one screwdriver bit kit with more than 16
different bits kit that DOESNT have one....? although lots of them simply
call them square heads, square tip, u get the idea.

im not trying to argue, i mean i dont know what you've seen and havent seen.
but im tellin ya, they put them in lots of the kits. same with torx bits.

randy
"Tellmeaboutit" wrote in message
news:e_UNd.32437$gA4.21345@edtnps89...
Why is it that tool kits (drill bit sets, screwdriver sets, etc.) made in
the US never include Robinson bits? They are far superior to Phillips or
slot drivers. Just curious.

"willshak" wrote in message
...
On 2/8/2005 8:38 AM US(ET), Alan took fingers to keys, and typed the
following:

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 01:56:52 GMT, "Tellmeaboutit"
wrote:


D'oh, that should be Robertson...

"Tellmeaboutit" wrote in message
news:e_UNd.32437$gA4.21345@edtnps89...

Why is it that tool kits (drill bit sets, screwdriver sets, etc.) made
in the US never include Robinson bits? They are far superior to
Phillips or slot drivers. Just curious.


I am curious as to why they don't seem to use the name Robertson any
more, but call them square drive instead. Wouldn't that be like
calling Phillips, + drive?

I didn't know what Robertson screws were, but it seems I have been using
them for a few years.
I used square drive screws on my vinyl fencing, deck, and other projects
around the house. I've used coated, aluminum, and stainless steel screws.
I haven't seen a square drive screwdriver, but I haven't been looking for
one, since I have square drive bits for my cordless and also for my
Stanley replaceable bit screwdriver. I am looking at two bits now. One has
'SQ2' stamped on it and the other has 'R2' stamped on it. I guess the 'R'
stands for Robertson?

ya they are sized 1,2, etc.. like phillips.

randy

And adjustable wrenches. I don't believe I've ever seen a metric
adjustable wrench.

Steve ;-)

they got em in france...

randy

"martik" wrote in message
news:9HWNd.25580$tU6.21253@edtnps91...


Most HO's do not need overpriced 'real' tools. ie: My black and decker
jigsaw and router are over 25 years old and still run like new.

You are correct, most do not NEED higher priced tools, I just enjoy using
higher quality tools, it makes the job a bit more enjoyable.

My Dad has a 25-30 year old B&D jig saw, good sturdy tool. My Bosch jig saw
is smoother, quieter, cuts faster, and therefore a much nicer tool to use.
Did I NEED a Bosch jig saw, hell no! I wanted one though! In fact I owned it
over a year before I even used it!
Greg

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
m...
In article , "JerryMouse"
wrote:

(snip)
4) The spark plugs most widely used in the U.S. have 5/8" or 13/16" hex
heads.

I think he was referring to the threads, not the wrench size to put them in.
IIRC, when Henry the First was setting up shop, there were no US spark plug
makers, so he had little choice but to use metric. Since he was the 800
pound gorilla, that is what the industry standardized on. I could be wrong,
of course, but I'm sure someone smarter than me will post the correct story.

aem sends...

They are 'robertson' bits...invented by a scotsman that emmigrated to
canada. not widely used in states because that sob nation is busy looking
for third world nations to attack and steal oil from.
Hey, maybe sadam hid those WMD in vaults sealed with robertson head
screws????
LOL, loyal canadians are wise to american imperialism.
"clifto" wrote in message
...
Doug Miller wrote:
3) Metric dimensions and labelling have not proven to be an impediment
to the
importation, manufacture, and use in the U.S. of plenty of metric bolts
and
wrenches.

Except, of course, for the size you urgently need now.

--

In Memoriam: Julius the cat April 1, 1993 - February 3, 2005

In article , "ameijers" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
om...
In article , "JerryMouse"
wrote:

(snip)
4) The spark plugs most widely used in the U.S. have 5/8" or 13/16" hex
heads.

I think he was referring to the threads, not the wrench size to put them in.
IIRC, when Henry the First was setting up shop, there were no US spark plug
makers, so he had little choice but to use metric. Since he was the 800
pound gorilla, that is what the industry standardized on. I could be wrong,
of course, but I'm sure someone smarter than me will post the correct story.

Who *cares* whether the threads are metric, Imperial, or some ******* size?
It's not like you put anything *else* into the spark plug port in a cylinder
head, where you have to know what the thread diameter and pitch are... buy the
recommended plug for your engine, and that's all you need.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

NoSpamFANatic wrote:
LOL, loyal canadians are wise to american imperialism.

Actually, it's not so much imperialism as capitalism. We're secretly
plotting to let your economy continue as it is now for another ten
years, then we'll step in and buy the whole country for $89 U.S.

Of course, maybe y'all will beat us to the punch with your secret plot
to reduce us to confusion by absorbing all our liberals, eh?

--

In Memoriam: Julius the cat April 1, 1993 - February 3, 2005

That's not it. Robertson bits/screws are denominated in metric. We use
Imperial measures. Except for spark plugs, of course.

And engines; e.g. 3.5 litre gasoline, 7 Litre Caterpillar Diesel etc. and
metric tonnes, and .............!
Ah well; we'll catch on in another generation or so!

Robertson (square) drives must be catching on? It was only a few years ago
that a friend, manager/owner of a company that manufactured and shipped
power equipment told me that certain US specs for his equipment clearly
required "All screws must be Philips or Straight".

Personally have always found Robertsons convenient and powerful; possible to
put a screw on the end of the square driver and apply it with one hand at
almost any angle including straight down, horizontal etc. Recent convert to
using construction screws and a power/drill driver. Robertsons work very
well.

Probably due to NIH Syndrome (Not Invented Here); as you're probably
aware, the Robertson screw was invented by a Canadian. You're right, the
Robertson *is* far superior. Here in the US, most home centers sell dual
head (Robertson/Phillips) screws, and Robertson drivers that will fit in a
power drill -- but I have *never* seen a Robertson screwdriver in any
store in the US. They must be fairly common in Canada, though, 'cause I
didn't have any trouble at all finding them at Home Depot or Sears the
last time I was in Windsor. OTOH, if I had wanted to buy a Phillips
screwdriver in those places... I might've been out of luck. I honestly
didn't see any Phillips screwdrivers at HD, although I think Sears did
have them.

I notice that Tim Bits are now available in some areas of the USA.

Gary
Please remove XXX in email address if email reply is desired.

"Waldo" wrote in message
.. .

Not true. Robertson screws have been used in Canada for well
over sixty years. Apparently Henry Ford was interested in
them for his assembly line but wanted full and exclusive
ownership of the design. Robertson, the inventor, would not
go for that and as a consequence Ford declined to use them.
Then along came the Phillips design and it became the
American sweetheart because it was invented by an American
and was somewhat superior to the common slotted screw.

Somewhat? Ever try to start a slotted head wood screw without a pilot hole?
With a power driver? With one hand? Every slotted head screw I come across
is scrapped. I don't have ONE to my name.

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 20:39:22 -0600, "PhotoMan"
wrote:


"Waldo" wrote in message
. ..

Not true. Robertson screws have been used in Canada for well
over sixty years. Apparently Henry Ford was interested in
them for his assembly line but wanted full and exclusive
ownership of the design. Robertson, the inventor, would not
go for that and as a consequence Ford declined to use them.
Then along came the Phillips design and it became the
American sweetheart because it was invented by an American
and was somewhat superior to the common slotted screw.

Somewhat? Ever try to start a slotted head wood screw without a pilot hole?
With a power driver? With one hand? Every slotted head screw I come across
is scrapped. I don't have ONE to my name.

You dont have a lot of anything to your name. Next time you want to
start a sloted head wood screw, use that usless melon on top of that
thing you call a neck. Have someone slam it against the screwhead.
Maybe something will bust you bonehead.
Bubba

"Waldo" wrote in message

Then along came the Phillips design and it became the
American sweetheart because it was invented by an American
and was somewhat superior to the common slotted screw.

Phillips did a good job designing his cross slotted screws, but they he was
never able to expand that technology in the marketplace. Every try the
cross bladed Phillips snow shovel?

PhotoMan wrote:

"Waldo" wrote in message
.. .


Not true. Robertson screws have been used in Canada for well
over sixty years. Apparently Henry Ford was interested in
them for his assembly line but wanted full and exclusive
ownership of the design. Robertson, the inventor, would not
go for that and as a consequence Ford declined to use them.
Then along came the Phillips design and it became the
American sweetheart because it was invented by an American
and was somewhat superior to the common slotted screw.


Somewhat? Ever try to start a slotted head wood screw without a pilot hole?
With a power driver? With one hand? Every slotted head screw I come across
is scrapped. I don't have ONE to my name.


Yup! And the Robertson is superior to the Phillips probably
as much as the Phillips is to the slotted, IMHO. That's why
anything I buy that includes Phillips head screws for
assembly has them replaced with Robertsons. I can probably
make you a good deal if your interested in buying a coffee
can full of assorted Phillips head screws.

"Waldo" wrote in message
...


PhotoMan wrote:

"Waldo" wrote in message
.. .


Not true. Robertson screws have been used in Canada for well
over sixty years. Apparently Henry Ford was interested in
them for his assembly line but wanted full and exclusive
ownership of the design. Robertson, the inventor, would not
go for that and as a consequence Ford declined to use them.
Then along came the Phillips design and it became the
American sweetheart because it was invented by an American
and was somewhat superior to the common slotted screw.


Somewhat? Ever try to start a slotted head wood screw without a pilot
hole?
With a power driver? With one hand? Every slotted head screw I come
across
is scrapped. I don't have ONE to my name.


Yup! And the Robertson is superior to the Phillips probably
as much as the Phillips is to the slotted, IMHO. That's why
anything I buy that includes Phillips head screws for
assembly has them replaced with Robertsons. I can probably
make you a good deal if your interested in buying a coffee
can full of assorted Phillips head screws.

How 'bout 15+ pounds of Phillips? At least!

I know you're just a troll baiting a flame war, but I can't resist...
apologies in advance to all US non-trolls, please disregard.

Have you looked at the US debt per capita lately and compared it to
Canada's? In a few years "y'all" be lucky to afford a double-double at the
local Tim's in downtown Little Rock. But by then Bin Laden will have
resurfaced and will be running for Governor of Kansas, so who knows.



"clifto" wrote in message
...
NoSpamFANatic wrote:
LOL, loyal canadians are wise to american imperialism.

Actually, it's not so much imperialism as capitalism. We're secretly
plotting to let your economy continue as it is now for another ten
years, then we'll step in and buy the whole country for $89 U.S.

Of course, maybe y'all will beat us to the punch with your secret plot
to reduce us to confusion by absorbing all our liberals, eh?

--

In Memoriam: Julius the cat April 1, 1993 - February 3, 2005

I've only had a little bit of experience with what I thought were just
called "square drive" screws. I think that their greatest asset, that
it's nearly impossible to have a power driver bit slip out or strip the
head, can also be a minor drawback. They hold the bit SO well that
they tend to pull it out of the magnetic bit holder in my drill. I
suppose if I just got separate (longer) bits that go into the chuck
directly I wouldn't have this problem. With today's keyless chucks that
might not be such a bad thing, I suppose.

I usually use phillips. With the aforementioned magnetic bit holder I
find it pretty easy to start them at any angle also. Their lesser
bit-holding ability only becomes a drawback where there is a great deal
of resistance to turning the screw. Maybe next time I buy drywall
screws I'll get the really long ones in square drive.

Greg Guarino

There's one part of this story I don't get. You say Ford wouldn't use
the Robertson because he couldn't buy an exclusive to the design. But
did he GET an exclusive on the Phillips? Or any other design?

Greg Guarino