We need to buy new toilets. We currently have very nice Kohler's, but
they are of the 3-1/2 gallon or possibly more design. We are on a
septic system and need to reduce our water useage. What is the latest
in 1.6 or 1.4 toilet design that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? We
want something that still looks nice like the Kohlers.

Dick wrote:
We need to buy new toilets. We currently have very nice Kohler's, but
they are of the 3-1/2 gallon or possibly more design. We are on a
septic system and need to reduce our water useage. What is the latest
in 1.6 or 1.4 toilet design that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? We
want something that still looks nice like the Kohlers.

The most recommended is the American Standard Cadet line. They and not
expensive and they work well (flush well).

In any one you look at make sure they have a "fully glazed trap" and
that the trap is at least 2 inches.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

i have my doubts that the 1.6gpf actually save you money. They stop up way
too often and require so many extra flushes that it's probably a wash...
just talking about them with people at work, those of us who have them
absolutely hate them. One guy at the office in his mid-30s said he never
owned a plunger until he moved into his current house, which has 1.6gpf
toilets. I've not been that lucky, but they're enough of a hassle that I
really do miss 3.5gpf toilets.... and believe me, saying i miss a toilet is
not something i could ever imagine myself saying. It's the constant
stop-ups that led to them as a topic of conversation to begin with..

i know some people say that certain brands flush just as well, and that may
be the case... mine is some brand called Gerber.




We need to buy new toilets. We currently have very nice Kohler's, but
they are of the 3-1/2 gallon or possibly more design. We are on a
septic system and need to reduce our water useage. What is the latest
in 1.6 or 1.4 toilet design that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? We
want something that still looks nice like the Kohlers.

We need to buy new toilets. We currently have very nice Kohler's, but
they are of the 3-1/2 gallon or possibly more design. We are on a
septic system and need to reduce our water useage. What is the latest
in 1.6 or 1.4 toilet design that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? We
want something that still looks nice like the Kohlers.



There are also pressure-assist low flow toilets that do a good job
removing the waste. The downside when these first came out was the
noise, but they say the latest version has reduced or solved that
problem. Lot's of Motel 6's have installed or converted to these
(the noisy ones). Google Pressure Assist Toilet for more info.

Beachcomber

We replaced two of our old water-wasting (4* gal.?) toilets that were
always getting plugged up and needing multiple flushes by low-flush (1.6
gal.) American Standard Champion toilets and have never needed to flush
more than once.

Perce


On 02/05/05 01:24 pm anon tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

i have my doubts that the 1.6gpf actually save you money. They stop up way
too often and require so many extra flushes that it's probably a wash...
just talking about them with people at work, those of us who have them
absolutely hate them. One guy at the office in his mid-30s said he never
owned a plunger until he moved into his current house, which has 1.6gpf
toilets. I've not been that lucky, but they're enough of a hassle that I
really do miss 3.5gpf toilets.... and believe me, saying i miss a toilet is
not something i could ever imagine myself saying. It's the constant
stop-ups that led to them as a topic of conversation to begin with..

i know some people say that certain brands flush just as well, and that may
be the case... mine is some brand called Gerber.

If I had to rely on a 1.6 gal flush, I would prefer to have an
outhouse..................


For many folks, they end up having to flush several times to get the bad
stuff down the drain.

These new toilets and water restrictions are part of the Al Gore legacy.


--James--

I currently ahve an american Standard Champion and had a Kohler/Flushmaster
Pressure Assit...I kile them both. The pressure assist seems to move waste
with much more force, but neither clogs/clogged more than once or
twice...ever.
"Dick" LeadWinger wrote in message
...
We need to buy new toilets. We currently have very nice Kohler's, but
they are of the 3-1/2 gallon or possibly more design. We are on a
septic system and need to reduce our water useage. What is the latest
in 1.6 or 1.4 toilet design that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? We
want something that still looks nice like the Kohlers.

Dick wrote:

We need to buy new toilets. We currently have very
nice Kohler's, but they are of the 3-1/2 gallon or
possibly more design. We are on a septic system and
need to reduce our water useage. What is the latest
in 1.6 or 1.4 toilet design that doesn't cost an arm
and a leg? We want something that still looks nice
like the Kohlers.

Briggs Vacuity (vacuum assisted) or Gerber Ultraflush (air pressure)
are the best and are under $300. I'd go with a Vacuity since its
mechanism uses mostly common parts. Consumer Reports has reviewed
toilets in the past few years, and they've ranked the Ultraflush near
the top several times.

I just installed one of those Cadets, at Home Depot it was priced more than
the cheapies they had but was still lower middle of the road in price. It
went together very nicely and seems to flush quite well, I was concerned
about switching to a 1.6 toilet too but it seems my fears were unfounded..so
far, no clogs.

--

Mikey S.
http://www.mike721.com


"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
The most recommended is the American Standard Cadet line. They and not
expensive and they work well (flush well).

We have 4 Kohlers with Sloan pressure valves and they all flush well but are
noisy. They are 7 years old. My parents have 2 new Gerbers with newer
Sloan pressure valves and they are quiet but the water level is very high so
if we were to purchase them again we would either get the elongated versions
or the taller version to help avoid splash up. Otherwise the Gerber are
outstanding. An unmentioned advantage of the Sloan valve is that they have
backpressure detection and if somehow they detect a plugged up toilet they
stop flushing instantly. No overflows are virtually impossible.



wrote in message
oups.com...

Dick wrote:

We need to buy new toilets. We currently have very
nice Kohler's, but they are of the 3-1/2 gallon or
possibly more design. We are on a septic system and
need to reduce our water useage. What is the latest
in 1.6 or 1.4 toilet design that doesn't cost an arm
and a leg? We want something that still looks nice
like the Kohlers.

Briggs Vacuity (vacuum assisted) or Gerber Ultraflush (air pressure)
are the best and are under $300. I'd go with a Vacuity since its
mechanism uses mostly common parts. Consumer Reports has reviewed
toilets in the past few years, and they've ranked the Ultraflush near
the top several times.

Thanks everyone for the good ideas. I will look into the Gerber and
American Standard.

Dick


On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 09:14:38 -0700, Dick LeadWinger wrote:

We need to buy new toilets. We currently have very nice Kohler's, but
they are of the 3-1/2 gallon or possibly more design. We are on a
septic system and need to reduce our water useage. What is the latest
in 1.6 or 1.4 toilet design that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? We
want something that still looks nice like the Kohlers.

They work fine if you get a good model, Consumer reports rated apx 30
of them. I have a pressure assist .

On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 14:56:10 -0500, "James"
wrote:

If I had to rely on a 1.6 gal flush, I would prefer to have an
outhouse..................


For many folks, they end up having to flush several times to get the bad
stuff down the drain.

The newest toilets do not have that problem at all. I replaced an old
toilet that did not flush worth a damn with a 1.6gpf Kohler and never
had to flush twice, didn't have skid marks like the old one and
definitely saved money on my water bills. I moved from that house and
now have water wasters again that don't flush worth a damn. This time
I am on flat rate water, so replacing the toilets would not pay for
themselves, but I think I will do it anyway to get something that
flushes properly.

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 17:43:30 -0700, Dick LeadWinger wrote:

Thanks everyone for the good ideas. I will look into the Gerber and
American Standard.

Some Totos and Kohlers are also excellent.


On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 09:14:38 -0700, Dick LeadWinger wrote:

We need to buy new toilets. We currently have very nice Kohler's, but
they are of the 3-1/2 gallon or possibly more design. We are on a
septic system and need to reduce our water useage. What is the latest
in 1.6 or 1.4 toilet design that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? We
want something that still looks nice like the Kohlers.

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 17:43:30 -0700, Dick LeadWinger wrote (with
possible editing):

Thanks everyone for the good ideas. I will look into the Gerber and
American Standard.

Dick

FWIW, we're looking to add a new toilet to our downstairs half bath.
What's been recommended the most in the past has been Toyo. Surprised
that nobody has mentioned them in this thread.

As an aside, reducing water is unlikely to help with your septic
system. It isn't clear liquid which clogs it. For vastly better
septic health, you should be sure that your dishwasher and laundry
room drain into separate gray water disposals. For us, that is just a
simple dry well. I'm not an expert, but I'm told that the phosphates
in detergents are what hasten pumping.

We have two septic systems on the property - one is 30 years old and
neither has ever been pumped. (and neither one produces any smell
either). I think that's because of the separate line for the
dishwasher and laundry.

--

Larry
Email to rapp at lmr dot com

Make sure its FlushStar energy rated.

here you'll find some real log tests ... update#1 is 2004 models
http://www.savingwater.org/inside_ba...toilettest.htm
Maximum Performance Testing of Popular Toilet Models (MaP), lists the grams
of waste material each toilet model flushed.

"Dick" LeadWinger wrote in message
...
We need to buy new toilets. We currently have very nice Kohler's, but
they are of the 3-1/2 gallon or possibly more design. We are on a
septic system and need to reduce our water useage. What is the latest
in 1.6 or 1.4 toilet design that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? We
want something that still looks nice like the Kohlers.

Dick wrote:
We need to buy new toilets. We currently have very nice Kohler's, but
they are of the 3-1/2 gallon or possibly more design. We are on a
septic system and need to reduce our water useage. What is the latest
in 1.6 or 1.4 toilet design that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? We
want something that still looks nice like the Kohlers.

Our new house has these low flow toilets. Without going into too much
detail, sometimes during an extended sitting they may require a flush
halfway through. If you fill it too much it will clog and won't flush
at the end. I think these toilets are designed with a single flush for
a #1. #2's require a flush and hold to remove everything (or like I
said above an intermediate flush). I suppose in the end they do save water.

Terry Love's consumer toilet reports
A report on low flow water efficient toilets

http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 09:14:38 -0700, Dick LeadWinger wrote:

We need to buy new toilets. We currently have very nice Kohler's, but
they are of the 3-1/2 gallon or possibly more design. We are on a
septic system and need to reduce our water useage. What is the latest
in 1.6 or 1.4 toilet design that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? We
want something that still looks nice like the Kohlers.

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 14:44:15 GMT, L. M. Rappaport
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 17:43:30 -0700, Dick LeadWinger wrote (with
possible editing):

Thanks everyone for the good ideas. I will look into the Gerber and
American Standard.

Dick

FWIW, we're looking to add a new toilet to our downstairs half bath.
What's been recommended the most in the past has been Toyo. Surprised
that nobody has mentioned them in this thread.

As an aside, reducing water is unlikely to help with your septic
system. It isn't clear liquid which clogs it. For vastly better
septic health, you should be sure that your dishwasher and laundry
room drain into separate gray water disposals. For us, that is just a
simple dry well. I'm not an expert, but I'm told that the phosphates
in detergents are what hasten pumping.

We have two septic systems on the property - one is 30 years old and
neither has ever been pumped. (and neither one produces any smell
either). I think that's because of the separate line for the
dishwasher and laundry.

Excess water is definitely our problem. It isn't that the system is
clogged, but rather that the leach field is saturated and can't take
the amount of water we are trying to put into it. The liquid backs up
into the septic tank and the system overflows. When we get it pumped,
about 200 gallons come out of the leach field back into the tank.
This whole problem started with heavy rains which pooled in the yard
and soaked the leach field. This is our 6th home with a septic
system, so we are familiar with their use and care. Here, it costs
$.32/gallon to pump out a tank. Ours is 1,250 gallons. We not only
have to pay for the 1,250 gallons, but all the water that comes back
from the leach field. You can see that pumping out every four weeks
is a wallet killer.

We use about 5,000 gallons/month not counting the drip irrigation
system. That's way too much for 2 people. Today, we should be using
35 to 45 gallons per person per day. We live in Arizona where water
is a precious commodity. Arizona only recently (2001) approved the
use of gray water. There are strict rules (the major ones are cannot
pool where people can reach it, and it must be contained on your own
property.) Your system would be in violation as our gray water cannot
come from the kitchen sink or dishwasher. Also, it cannot come from
the laundry if you wash diapers or other infectious garments.

Someone in our neighborhood had the same problem and were able to fix
it with a gray water system to allow the leach field to "rest." I
think a combination of new toilets and a gray water system will help
us too. If not, we are looking at many bucks to make another leach
field in the front yard. This will involve tearing up about $10,000
worth of landscaping just for starters.

Dick

Dick wrote:
We need to buy new toilets. We currently have very nice Kohler's, but
they are of the 3-1/2 gallon or possibly more design. We are on a
septic system and need to reduce our water useage. What is the latest
in 1.6 or 1.4 toilet design that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? We
want something that still looks nice like the Kohlers.

I thought I would update my last message based on the comments by others
listing the American Standard Champion models.

It appears the Champion is a newer model and may be even better than the
well known and recommended Cadet line.

The primary difference appears to be the larger 2 3/8" trap in the
Champion compared to the very respectable 2" in the Cadet. Based on the
specifications and the claims by American Standard, the Champion is the
Champion. I will guess it will be more expensive, but I am planning on
replacing one of my toilets in the not too distant future and I will try out
the Champion.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 10:44:43 -0500, Richard Beri
wrote:

Dick wrote:
We need to buy new toilets. We currently have very nice Kohler's, but
they are of the 3-1/2 gallon or possibly more design. We are on a
septic system and need to reduce our water useage. What is the latest
in 1.6 or 1.4 toilet design that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? We
want something that still looks nice like the Kohlers.

Our new house has these low flow toilets. Without going into too much
detail, sometimes during an extended sitting they may require a flush
halfway through. If you fill it too much it will clog and won't flush
at the end. I think these toilets are designed with a single flush for
a #1. #2's require a flush and hold to remove everything (or like I
said above an intermediate flush). I suppose in the end they do save water.

Is it possible that yours require you to hold the handle down for a #2
to get a full flush? Many are designed this way.

Just a follow-up to show the results of this thread. We ordered two
Toto UltraMax today. Won't get them for a while because the color we
wanted is on back order. Thanks everyone for the ideas and
recommendations. The reference to the Terry Love website is what
finally persuaded us to go with Toto.

Dick

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 09:14:38 -0700, Dick LeadWinger wrote:

We need to buy new toilets. We currently have very nice Kohler's, but
they are of the 3-1/2 gallon or possibly more design. We are on a
septic system and need to reduce our water useage. What is the latest
in 1.6 or 1.4 toilet design that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? We
want something that still looks nice like the Kohlers.

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 09:11:49 -0700, Dick LeadWinger wrote (with
possible editing):

....lots of snipping!

We use about 5,000 gallons/month not counting the drip irrigation
system. That's way too much for 2 people. Today, we should be using
35 to 45 gallons per person per day.

Wow! That's a LOT of water - you're right, but why are you using so
much water? Especially considering that it doesn't include
irrigation. That's about 88 gallons per person per day. I'm not
surprised you have a problem with your septic system.

We live in Arizona where water
is a precious commodity. Arizona only recently (2001) approved the
use of gray water. There are strict rules (the major ones are cannot
pool where people can reach it, and it must be contained on your own
property.) Your system would be in violation as our gray water cannot
come from the kitchen sink or dishwasher. Also, it cannot come from
the laundry if you wash diapers or other infectious garments.

Our gray water goes into a deep dry well. So far as I know, it never
resurfaces, at least not within a few hundred yards. We have 150
acres in northern New England, though, so finding or disposing of
water is not a problem.

Someone in our neighborhood had the same problem and were able to fix
it with a gray water system to allow the leach field to "rest." I
think a combination of new toilets and a gray water system will help
us too. If not, we are looking at many bucks to make another leach
field in the front yard. This will involve tearing up about $10,000
worth of landscaping just for starters.

I'd investigate a gray water system if I were you. It's a lot cheaper
to add a dry well and it takes substantially less room than replacing
a leach field.

However, first off, you might want to find out why you're using so
much. Possibly a leak somewhere?

Good luck,
--

Larry
Email to rapp at lmr dot com

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:42:51 GMT, L. M. Rappaport
wrote:

Our gray water goes into a deep dry well. So far as I know, it never
resurfaces, at least not within a few hundred yards. We have 150
acres in northern New England, though, so finding or disposing of
water is not a problem.

We live on a 1/3-acre city lot with CC&R's and County ordinances. If
I had 150 acres I wouldn't have a problem either. :-)

I'd investigate a gray water system if I were you. It's a lot cheaper
to add a dry well and it takes substantially less room than replacing
a leach field.

However, first off, you might want to find out why you're using so
much. Possibly a leak somewhere?

Good luck,

You're right. We need to find out why so much water. I have
suspected an underground leak for some time, but not sure how to
pursue it. Pipe is deep underground from the meter to the house, and
the landscaping is all rock. I'll keep at it though.

Dick

Try this site. These are supposed to be the best in toilets, but you pay the
price.
http://www.totousa.com/toto/totohome.asp
Ron



"Dick" LeadWinger wrote in message
...
We need to buy new toilets. We currently have very nice Kohler's, but
they are of the 3-1/2 gallon or possibly more design. We are on a
septic system and need to reduce our water useage. What is the latest
in 1.6 or 1.4 toilet design that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? We
want something that still looks nice like the Kohlers.

Thanks Ron. I already ordered the Toto's.

Dick

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 03:05:47 GMT, "Ron"
wrote:

Try this site. These are supposed to be the best in toilets, but you pay the
price.
http://www.totousa.com/toto/totohome.asp
Ron



"Dick" LeadWinger wrote in message
.. .
We need to buy new toilets. We currently have very nice Kohler's, but
they are of the 3-1/2 gallon or possibly more design. We are on a
septic system and need to reduce our water useage. What is the latest
in 1.6 or 1.4 toilet design that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? We
want something that still looks nice like the Kohlers.