Can anyone recommend a good site on how to add radiant heat to an outside,
sidewalk. I want to add a 100' side walk to my shop to keep me out of the
mud and wet grass and am interested in the pro's and con's of heating so
that I do not have to shovel...

HotRod wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good site on how to add radiant heat to an
outside,
sidewalk. I want to add a 100' side walk to my shop to keep me out of
the
mud and wet grass and am interested in the pro's and con's of heating
so
that I do not have to shovel...


Hot topic, as I've posted a few messages here lately. Here's what I
found:

http://www.warmzone.com/

They can retrofit your sidewalk for heating.

HotRod writes:

Can anyone recommend a good site on how to add radiant heat to an
outside, sidewalk. I want to add a 100' side walk to my shop to keep
me out of the mud and wet grass and am interested in the pro's and
con's of heating so that I do not have to shovel.

You want to heat the outdoors, or a least a little patch of it. I hope you
have deep pockets.

HotRod wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good site on how to add radiant heat to an
outside, sidewalk. I want to add a 100' side walk to my shop to keep
me out of the mud and wet grass and am interested in the pro's and
con's of heating so that I do not have to shovel...

Before you invest in the hardware, find out how much this is going to
cost to operate. It is very expensive.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
news
HotRod wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good site on how to add radiant heat to an
outside, sidewalk. I want to add a 100' side walk to my shop to keep
me out of the mud and wet grass and am interested in the pro's and
con's of heating so that I do not have to shovel...

Before you invest in the hardware, find out how much this is going to
cost to operate. It is very expensive.

--
Joseph Meehan

I recall seeing that it is even illegal to heat a driveway or sidewalk, but
I sure don't know that for a fact. (could be some leftover trivia from the
energy crisis) To operate it, I'd say you'd have to hit the lottery or be
the CEO of a major corporation. A big snowblower would pay for itself in a
year.

I don't have deep pockets what I have is a shop located way behind the house
that is almost inaccessible in the winter, the driveway leading to the shop
is to steep to drive on and my attempts to add gravel and such haven't
worked. I also do not have a side walk which means I trek through the snow
or puddles and mud to get there and my work back to the house. I'm just
interested in getting a quote and finding out what the cost of heating is.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
news
HotRod wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good site on how to add radiant heat to an
outside, sidewalk. I want to add a 100' side walk to my shop to keep
me out of the mud and wet grass and am interested in the pro's and
con's of heating so that I do not have to shovel...

Before you invest in the hardware, find out how much this is
going to cost to operate. It is very expensive.

--
Joseph Meehan

I recall seeing that it is even illegal to heat a driveway or
sidewalk, but I sure don't know that for a fact. (could be some
leftover trivia from the energy crisis) To operate it, I'd say you'd
have to hit the lottery or be the CEO of a major corporation. A big
snowblower would pay for itself in a year.

I would not be surprised if it is illegal in some locations. We have
them were I live, including government buildings.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
news
HotRod wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good site on how to add radiant heat to an
outside, sidewalk. I want to add a 100' side walk to my shop to
keep
me out of the mud and wet grass and am interested in the pro's and
con's of heating so that I do not have to shovel...

Before you invest in the hardware, find out how much this is
going to
cost to operate. It is very expensive.

--
Joseph Meehan

I recall seeing that it is even illegal to heat a driveway or
sidewalk, but
I sure don't know that for a fact. (could be some leftover trivia
from the
energy crisis) To operate it, I'd say you'd have to hit the lottery
or be
the CEO of a major corporation. A big snowblower would pay for
itself in a
year.

According to these guys, it's not that much:

http://www.warmzone.com/questions-heated-driveways.asp

Q: What are the operational costs of your snow melting systems?

A: The average operational cost for a snow melting system is
approximately $0.28 per 100 square feet per hour. This figure is based
on a system producing 28 watts/sq.ft. with a kwh rate of $0.10 per
hour. If you know the square feet of the area you want to heat, and
your kwh rate, you can calculate the operational costs with this
formula: heatable sq.ft. times watts/sq.ft.,d ivided by 1000, times
your kwh rate.


Remember, these systems don't run continuously, and you can even get
sensors that will determine if 1) it's cold enough and 2) there's
moisture.

I recall seeing that it is even illegal to heat a driveway or
sidewalk, but I sure don't know that for a fact. (could be some
leftover trivia from the energy crisis) To operate it, I'd say
you'd
have to hit the lottery or be the CEO of a major corporation. A
big
snowblower would pay for itself in a year.

I would not be surprised if it is illegal in some locations. We
have
them were I live, including government buildings.
Why in the world would it be illegal?

wrote:
On 14 Jan 2005 12:17:41 -0800, wrote:


Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
news HotRod wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good site on how to add radiant heat to
an
outside, sidewalk. I want to add a 100' side walk to my shop to
keep
me out of the mud and wet grass and am interested in the pro's
and
con's of heating so that I do not have to shovel...

Before you invest in the hardware, find out how much this is
going to
cost to operate. It is very expensive.

--
Joseph Meehan

I recall seeing that it is even illegal to heat a driveway or
sidewalk, but
I sure don't know that for a fact. (could be some leftover trivia
from the
energy crisis) To operate it, I'd say you'd have to hit the
lottery
or be
the CEO of a major corporation. A big snowblower would pay for
itself in a
year.

According to these guys, it's not that much:

http://www.warmzone.com/questions-heated-driveways.asp

Q: What are the operational costs of your snow melting systems?

A: The average operational cost for a snow melting system is
approximately $0.28 per 100 square feet per hour. This figure is
based
on a system producing 28 watts/sq.ft. with a kwh rate of $0.10 per
hour. If you know the square feet of the area you want to heat, and
your kwh rate, you can calculate the operational costs with this
formula: heatable sq.ft. times watts/sq.ft.,d ivided by 1000, times
your kwh rate.


Remember, these systems don't run continuously, and you can even get
sensors that will determine if 1) it's cold enough and 2) there's
moisture.

Roughly speaking, that sounds like the 100 foot sidewalk the OP
proposes would cost around $1 an hour, or $24 a day during cold
weather. Just one week of cold and wet would cost $168. Having a
solid
week of cold and wet is a common thing in some locales.

Ok, here in detroit, 1kwh is $.07885 as of today
http://my.dteenergy.com/myAccount/pdfs/rates.pdf


So for 100 sq ft area at 28 watts

100 * 28 /1000 * 7.885 = $.22 / hr

Bout 1/4 of what you calculated.

Wet and cold continuously for a week? Where? Usually when it snows
here, it snows for a couple of hours. We had a big one last week, and
it snowed for maybe 12 hours. Guess it depends where you live.



If you pay for your snow removal, I think it could pay for itself..
You'd have to figure out the numbers for yourself.

wrote:
I recall seeing that it is even illegal to heat a driveway or
sidewalk, but I sure don't know that for a fact. (could be some
leftover trivia from the energy crisis) To operate it, I'd say
you'd have to hit the lottery or be the CEO of a major corporation.
A big snowblower would pay for itself in a year.

I would not be surprised if it is illegal in some locations. We
have them were I live, including government buildings.
Why in the world would it be illegal?

Same reason the old style 3 gallon flush toilets are illegal.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

wrote:
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
news
HotRod wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good site on how to add radiant heat to an
outside, sidewalk. I want to add a 100' side walk to my shop to
keep me out of the mud and wet grass and am interested in the
pro's and con's of heating so that I do not have to shovel...

Before you invest in the hardware, find out how much this is
going to cost to operate. It is very expensive.

--
Joseph Meehan

I recall seeing that it is even illegal to heat a driveway or
sidewalk, but I sure don't know that for a fact. (could be some
leftover trivia from the energy crisis) To operate it, I'd say
you'd have to hit the lottery or be the CEO of a major corporation.
A big snowblower would pay for itself in a year.

According to these guys, it's not that much:

http://www.warmzone.com/questions-heated-driveways.asp

Q: What are the operational costs of your snow melting systems?

A: The average operational cost for a snow melting system is
approximately $0.28 per 100 square feet per hour. This figure is based
on a system producing 28 watts/sq.ft. with a kwh rate of $0.10 per
hour.

Unless I am misreading my reference, I am paying bout $2.00 per KWH .


If you know the square feet of the area you want to heat, and
your kwh rate, you can calculate the operational costs with this
formula: heatable sq.ft. times watts/sq.ft.,d ivided by 1000, times
your kwh rate.


Remember, these systems don't run continuously, and you can even get
sensors that will determine if 1) it's cold enough and 2) there's
moisture.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

-snip-

Unless I am misreading my reference, I am paying bout $2.00 per KWH .

I think you might be. Take your bill and divide the total by the
number of Kilowatthours. [There is probably a "Your electricity
costs $.xx/kwh, but on my bill it only represents about 2/3d of the
cost. The other 1/3 is taxes, surcharges, etc]

BTW- mine, Niagra Mohawk in NY is about 13cents/kwh.

Jim

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

-snip-

Unless I am misreading my reference, I am paying bout $2.00 per
KWH .

I think you might be. Take your bill and divide the total by the
number of Kilowatthours. [There is probably a "Your electricity
costs $.xx/kwh, but on my bill it only represents about 2/3d of the
cost. The other 1/3 is taxes, surcharges, etc]

BTW- mine, Niagra Mohawk in NY is about 13cents/kwh.

Jim

I don't have a bill, everything is electronic and all I see is the final
charges unless I really want to hut it up. I found the rate on the
companies web site.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Joseph Meehan" wrote:


-snip-
I don't have a bill, everything is electronic and all I see is the final
charges unless I really want to hut it up. I found the rate on the
companies web site.

What electric company?

Jim

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:


-snip-
I don't have a bill, everything is electronic and all I see is
the final charges unless I really want to hut it up. I found the
rate on the companies web site.

What electric company?

Jim

AEP (aka American Electric Power)

http://www.aepcustomer.com/tariffs/Ohio/default.htm
Monthly Rate (Schedule Code 820)

Summer Winter

First 800 KWH 2.54439 2.54439

All KWH Over 800 KWH 2.54439 1.95956

Of course this was buried in a 114 page document and I may have picked
up the wrong information.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

From: "HotRod"


I don't have deep pockets what I have is a shop located way behind the house
that is almost inaccessible in the winter, the driveway leading to the shop
is to steep to drive on and my attempts to add gravel and such haven't
worked. I also do not have a side walk which means I trek through the snow
or puddles and mud to get there and my work back to the house. I'm just
interested in getting a quote and finding out what the cost of heating is.


The cost is whatever it costs for the hardware, plus the cost to run it.

It might not cost too much to operate if you only use it on an as-needed basis.
I would not go with the optional sensors which turn the system on whenever the
sensors determine there "might" be a need.

And If I cam home to 3' of snow on my sidewalk, I wouldn't expect to clear it
with the flip of a switch.

"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

-snip-

AEP (aka American Electric Power)

http://www.aepcustomer.com/tariffs/Ohio/default.htm
Monthly Rate (Schedule Code 820)

Summer Winter

First 800 KWH 2.54439 2.54439

All KWH Over 800 KWH 2.54439 1.95956

Of course this was buried in a 114 page document and I may have picked
up the wrong information.

I don't know what that was-- I got lost before I figured it out.
[maybe it is a a 'per bill' charge--- or is it in cents/kwh as they
list it below?]

I did find this page-
http://www.aepcustomer.com/tariffs/O...ok12-17-03.pdf

page 38 of 135- rates for residential, - the highest rate is [in
cents]
Generation 3.4
transmission .4
distribution 2.4
total of 6.14 cents per kwh. [there are probably taxes & fees that
get added in, but your final cost is probably around a dime a kwh]

BTW--- I can't imagine not having access to my kwh usage per month.
A sudden jump in cost might just mean they read the meter wrong, or
on a different day--- or I might see that my usage jumped 20% because
some appliance was malfunctioning or I had a wiring problem.

Jim

I believe here in Ontario the government picks up some of the cost of
electrical so if I'm correct we currently pay about 5 cent per kwh, I'll
have to double check that though. I looked at the OPG
(http://www.opgdirect.com/) website but they only had cost per MWH.