I want to replace the rubber/vinyl seal on the lower section of a 16ft steel
garage door, it appears that the seal has to slide into a track/grove.

I do think that the door has to be clamped shut, then the lower section
bracket loosened so that section, can be slanted to a position that would
make it easier to work with the seal.

Has anyone done this and have any tips on how to make this as simple as
possible, for a do it yourselfer?

Thanks

Tom

Look at your door. You probably have a track that is in sections.

Open the door partway so the lower section of the track can be unbolted and
then you can probably flex the door enough to slip out the old one and slip
in the new one.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.


"twfsa" wrote in message
news:_0DEd.3418$Wp.2765@lakeread07...
I want to replace the rubber/vinyl seal on the lower section of a 16ft
steel
garage door, it appears that the seal has to slide into a track/grove.

I do think that the door has to be clamped shut, then the lower section
bracket loosened so that section, can be slanted to a position that would
make it easier to work with the seal.

Has anyone done this and have any tips on how to make this as simple as
possible, for a do it yourselfer?

Thanks

Tom

Roger Shoaf wrote:

Look at your door. You probably have a track that is in sections.

Open the door partway so the lower section of the track can be unbolted and
then you can probably flex the door enough to slip out the old one and slip
in the new one.

What you might want to try is when the door is open fully, Close it a
few inches. that sholuld give you enough room to slide the old rubber
bottom seal out and put the new one in. Also, it would be a good idea to
go buy a can of light spray grease and spray the metal track that the
bottom seal slides into. It will make things go more smoothly. Also, it
would be a good idea to get the help of someone else to feed the bottom
seal in while you pull it down the door.

Roger Shoaf writes:

Open the door partway so the lower section of the track can be
unbolted and then you can probably flex the door enough to slip out
the old one and slip in the new one.

That is FOOLISH DEATH-WISH ADVICE. Follow it at your peril. Sectional
doors cannot be safely disassembled by the casual do-it-yourselfer.

Besides, the OP doesn't even specify the bottom seal or an inter-panel
seal. It matters.

http://www.truetex.com/garage.htm

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..


Roger Shoaf writes:

Open the door partway so the lower section of the

* track *

can be
unbolted and then you can probably flex the door enough to slip out
the old one and slip in the new one.




That is FOOLISH DEATH-WISH ADVICE. Follow it at your peril. Sectional
doors cannot be safely disassembled by the casual do-it-yourselfer.

First off I said nothing about disassembling the door, I suggested it migh
tbe possable to remove the lower section of *track* so the gasket could be
slipped into a grove at teh bottom of the door.

Doing this the door would be mostly up supported by the track still in
place. The only reason I suggested removing the lower section of *track*
was to get a little wiggle room to replace the gasket.

I did however assume that the OP was refering to the bottom gasket.

If how ever it was the gasket between the lower panel and the next one up,
that would probably be easier to replace. This gasket should be accesable
by opening the door untill the lower section is at its highest vertical
point and the next section is angled back. I would then strip off the old
gasket and clean the top of the lower section or the bottom of the upper
section and use an appropriate peal and stick foam seal.

Now please explain to me why you claim my suggestion is a foolish death
wish?

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.





Besides, the OP doesn't even specify the bottom seal or an inter-panel
seal. It matters.

http://www.truetex.com/garage.htm

Roger Shoaf writes:

Now please explain to me why you claim my suggestion is a foolish death
wish?

I gather it isn't obvious to your mechanical intuition.

A sectional garage door is normally a system containing a balance of two
huge forces, the weight of the door versus the lift of the lift cables,
drums, and torsion springs. This balance gives the illusion that the door
is approximately weightless and that no forces are involved, when in fact
hazardous forces are merely being kept at bay, like two giants in a
stalemated tug of war. This is a very dangerous illusion when it comes to
naive tinkering with the mechanisms. Releasing certain constraints
(setscrews, cable brackets, tracks) permits the potential energy of these
opposing forces to convert into kinetic energy of large masses in violent
motion.

For example, if the track does not constrain the door movement (imagine the
track were to just suddenly disappear by magic), in the down position, the
door will fold on its hinges. BOOM! The lower panel(s) will be lifted by
the lift cables and fly up violently, while the upper panel(s), no longer
supported by the lower panels, will fall by gravity, also violently.

Roger Shoaf wrote:
"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..



Roger Shoaf writes:


Open the door partway so the lower section of the


* track *

can be

unbolted and then you can probably flex the door enough to slip out
the old one and slip in the new one.




That is FOOLISH DEATH-WISH ADVICE. Follow it at your peril. Sectional
doors cannot be safely disassembled by the casual do-it-yourselfer.


First off I said nothing about disassembling the door, I suggested it migh
tbe possable to remove the lower section of *track* so the gasket could be
slipped into a grove at teh bottom of the door.

Doing this the door would be mostly up supported by the track still in
place. The only reason I suggested removing the lower section of *track*
was to get a little wiggle room to replace the gasket.

I did however assume that the OP was refering to the bottom gasket.

If how ever it was the gasket between the lower panel and the next one up,
that would probably be easier to replace. This gasket should be accesable
by opening the door untill the lower section is at its highest vertical
point and the next section is angled back. I would then strip off the old
gasket and clean the top of the lower section or the bottom of the upper
section and use an appropriate peal and stick foam seal.

Now please explain to me why you claim my suggestion is a foolish death
wish?


It isn't foolish and it isn't unsafe but you need to block
the door in position. A better way might be to remove the
two lower wheels so that the panel could swing down when the
door is up or inward when the panel is vertical.

twfsa wrote:
I want to replace the rubber/vinyl seal on the lower section of a 16ft steel
garage door, it appears that the seal has to slide into a track/grove.

I do think that the door has to be clamped shut, then the lower section
bracket loosened so that section, can be slanted to a position that would
make it easier to work with the seal.

Has anyone done this and have any tips on how to make this as simple as
possible, for a do it yourselfer?

Thanks

Tom



That would work but block the door up at a convenient height
first. Probably only have to remove the lower two wheels.

BUT, look for a replacement seal that fits first. Most of
the seals that I see are intended to simply be nailed on as
are most of the seals on a wooden door. I haven't seen a
garage door seal such as you mentioned so you may have a
hard time finding a replacement. It may simply be that the
seal just pries out of the metal holder, and the new seal is
slipped in a putty knife rather than sliding from the end.

George E. Cawthon writes:

It isn't foolish and it isn't unsafe but you need to block
the door in position. A better way might be to remove the
two lower wheels so that the panel could swing down when the
door is up or inward when the panel is vertical.

This is just contemptibly wrong, inventing advice that will not merely
fail, but will almost certainly hurt anyone stupidly credulous enough to
follow it. Good techniques may come from training, experience, scientific
analysis, or even armchair intuition, but you exhibit none of these. Let's
hope you're just being trollish.

George E. Cawthon writes:

That would work but block the door up at a convenient height
first. Probably only have to remove the lower two wheels.

Stupid, reckless, ignorant advice.

Richard,

When the door is mostly up as I had suggested The rollers on the door are
still in the track. Your *huge* force is still constrained. By the way,
how many pounds of force are exerted when the door is half way up? Seems to
me the force on one cable would be slightly less than half the weight of the
door in the vertical position. Since these sections are ordinarily
assembled by one person the *huge* force might not be so *huge*.


--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.
"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Roger Shoaf writes:

Now please explain to me why you claim my suggestion is a foolish death
wish?

I gather it isn't obvious to your mechanical intuition.

A sectional garage door is normally a system containing a balance of two
huge forces, the weight of the door versus the lift of the lift cables,
drums, and torsion springs. This balance gives the illusion that the door
is approximately weightless and that no forces are involved, when in fact
hazardous forces are merely being kept at bay, like two giants in a
stalemated tug of war. This is a very dangerous illusion when it comes to
naive tinkering with the mechanisms. Releasing certain constraints
(setscrews, cable brackets, tracks) permits the potential energy of these
opposing forces to convert into kinetic energy of large masses in violent
motion.

For example, if the track does not constrain the door movement (imagine
the
track were to just suddenly disappear by magic), in the down position, the
door will fold on its hinges. BOOM! The lower panel(s) will be lifted by
the lift cables and fly up violently, while the upper panel(s), no longer
supported by the lower panels, will fall by gravity, also violently.

Roger Shoaf writes:

Since these sections are ordinarily
assembled by one person the *huge* force might not be so *huge*.

You are speculating about hazardous things you clearly don't understand.

The force is applied *after* assembly.

Richard J Kinch wrote:
George E. Cawthon writes:


That would work but block the door up at a convenient height
first. Probably only have to remove the lower two wheels.


Stupid, reckless, ignorant advice.

Stupid reckless, ignorant teenager! Isn't the school
holiday over? Have you ever seen a multi section garage door?

George E. Cawthon writes:

That would work but block the door up at a convenient height
first. Probably only have to remove the lower two wheels.

Stupid, reckless, ignorant advice.

Stupid reckless, ignorant teenager!

I'll admit to that, but it was some three decades ago.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Roger Shoaf writes:

Since these sections are ordinarily
assembled by one person the *huge* force might not be so *huge*.

You are speculating about hazardous things you clearly don't understand.

The force is applied *after* assembly.

Sure it is but if the force was significantly greater than the weight of the
door, you would have a devil of a time closing it.

I believe it was Newton that said for every action there must be an equal
but opposite reaction.

From your web site you describe winding the spring. You also show a weight
of 350 pounds for the door. So at full down each side of the spring is
going to be applying about 175 pounds of force up to equal the weight of the
door.

when the door is half way up, that number will be about half as the spring
unwinds, and at 3/4 the way up will be about 1/4 of the 175pounds or perhaps
a little more because of the preload. For the sake of argument, let's say
the force was about 50 pounds.

This is like a 50 pound weight on one side of the pulley trying to lift up
one edge of the garage door attached to the other side of the pulley.

Is this what you are calling a *huge* force?

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...


Stupid reckless, ignorant teenager! Isn't the school
holiday over? Have you ever seen a multi section garage door?

George,

Richard has seen a sectional garage door, he has a picture of one on his web
page showing how he single handedly fixed a spring and didn't get killed
because he had the foresight to use an 18 inch lever. Most amazing thing
was he did this perched on a ladder.

Not bad for a PhD eh?

--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.

Roger Shoaf writes:

Is this what you are calling a *huge* force?

Yes. In the hands of ignorance like yours, it has killed people.

George E. Cawthon wrote:
Richard J Kinch wrote:
George E. Cawthon writes:
=20
=20
That would work but block the door up at a convenient height
first. Probably only have to remove the lower two wheels.
=20
=20
Stupid, reckless, ignorant advice.
=20
Stupid reckless, ignorant teenager! Isn't the school
holiday over? Have you ever seen a multi section garage door?

No, it's very valid advice, especially considering the context of the =
question. You've obviously never been centrally involved installing a =
door like that or you would realize it.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..

Roger Shoaf writes:

Is this what you are calling a *huge* force?

Yes. In the hands of ignorance like yours, it has killed people.

So lets see, you got a 50 pound force attempting to pull one corner of the
door up, and the upper part of the lower section is bolted to the
restrained lower part of the second section, and the other side of the lower
section is restrained by the track in the roller.

If I understand you, this circumstance is likely to be fatal. I surmise
that you suggest the *huge* 50 pound force is going to suddenly twist the
lower section of the door, cuff someone like me attempting the repair in the
face and send that ignorant schlub flying backwards where he hits his head,
impales himself or otherwise permanently runs afoul of the laws of physics.

For several reasons I disagree. First off, let us assume that a door
identical to the one pictured on your web page is horizontal fully supported
by the rollers in the track except one corner. I think you would have to
apply more than 50 pounds of force on that corner to cause a failure of the
partially restrained panel.

Secondly, If someone as ignorant as I, were to be unbolting a section of
sectional door, I would, in all likelihood , unbolt the bolts one at a
time. This would mean that the force attempting to send me to my death
would first make itself known long before its full fury would come crashing
in to my jaw. This would allow me to call upon all of the innermost desire
to avoid pain and death to restrain the edge of the door. I probably would
have to do this anyway as the force would jam the interlocking track.

On a side note, when you were plastering your pool, why didn't you rig a
chute to pour the plaster down into a waiting receptacle rather than
bucketing it?

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

Roger Shoaf writes:

On a side note, when you were plastering your pool, why didn't you rig a
chute to pour the plaster down into a waiting receptacle rather than
bucketing it?

Running a liquid down a chute is equivalent to throwing it down; very
little kinetic energy is lost to any resistance. The chute may guide where
it arrives at the bottom, but it still arrives with about the same kinetic
energy, which is to say, splattering everywhere.

I'll admit my untried intuition on this was as wrong as yours. I tried it
and learned the hard way.

You should be skeptical of your own intuitive analysis of garage doors,
because it is also quite wrong. The system contains on the order of 1000s
ft-lbs of energy, and your suggestions for disassembly will result in an
uncontrolled release of that energy, one way or another, and many of those
ways are destructive or injurious. The only proper method for such repairs
is to first relax the torsion springs, absorbing the energy safely into
your muscles over a period of 30-odd quarter-turns of an 18-inch winding
bar.

Pop writes:

No, it's very valid advice, especially considering the context of the
question. You've obviously never been centrally involved installing a
door like that or you would realize it.

Bunk. You cannot remove panels from a sectional door without unwinding the
torsion springs. I defy you to find any such technique in Clopay's library
of installation manuals:

http://www.clopaydoor.com/installman.asp

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..

You should be skeptical of your own intuitive analysis of garage doors,
because it is also quite wrong. The system contains on the order of 1000s
ft-lbs of energy, and your suggestions for disassembly will result in an
uncontrolled release of that energy, one way or another, and many of those
ways are destructive or injurious.


1000's of pounds? Gosh will you make up your mind

I asked:

This is like a 50 pound weight on one side of the pulley trying to lift up
one edge of the garage door attached to the other side of the pulley.

Is this what you are calling a *huge* force?

To which you replied:

Yes.

The fact the system may contain more force, is kind of moot to the risk of
what I suggested. The only force that would be in play is the force of the
cable pulling up and the weight of the door pulling down. I know I could
keep those forces in check and fix the gasket.



I fully agree that you did the spring change the right way. The original
question was about how to change the stinking gasket. I am not convinced
that what I had suggested would have been something that a reasonably
mechanicly adept person would have a trouble with, but you do. Let's agree
to disagree.


--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

Pop wrote:
George E. Cawthon wrote:

Richard J Kinch wrote:

George E. Cawthon writes:



That would work but block the door up at a convenient height
first. Probably only have to remove the lower two wheels.


Stupid, reckless, ignorant advice.

Stupid reckless, ignorant teenager! Isn't the school
holiday over? Have you ever seen a multi section garage door?


No, it's very valid advice, especially considering the context of the question. You've obviously never been centrally involved installing a door like that or you would realize it.

And you sir, are obviously very wrong. Removing the two
lower wheels of the lowest section has no effect on the
weight of the door or the weight/spring dynamics. All it
does it let the lower section swing inward, and if the door
is blocked up (probably by putting a clamp under the
wheel(s) of the next section higher, absolutely nothing will
happen. It won't even swing inward until you force it to.
This has nothing to do with installing a door. All the op
is trying to do is replace the rubber strip on the bottom.

Centrally involved in door installation? Nope never been
centrally involved, but I do maintain my wood door (much
heavier than a metal door) including tightening the springs
and all the brackets, wheels, and guides. Installing a
replacement door is quite straight forward.

Richard J Kinch wrote:
Pop writes:


No, it's very valid advice, especially considering the context of the
question. You've obviously never been centrally involved installing a
door like that or you would realize it.


Bunk. You cannot remove panels from a sectional door without unwinding the
torsion springs. I defy you to find any such technique in Clopay's library
of installation manuals:

http://www.clopaydoor.com/installman.asp

An interesting site, I'll have to look at a manual some time.

But why are you arguing against Pop, he is on your side. Or
is this supposed to be for me and you didn't put it in the
thread correctly?

Well, let's assume that you are arguing against what I said.
First, no one said anything about removing a panel. It
was removing two wheels.

I just went out and looked at my door again, and suffice it
to say I did make an error. The cable is hooked to the
bottom of the lowest panel so that the safest way would be
to raise the door all the way to the top where there is very
little tension and then unhook the wheels and pull the
bottom panel down, probably requiring 25 pound of pull with
a well balance door.

On the other hand, your statement is incorrect. If you need
to replace any panel except the bottom panel, there is no
need to release the spring tension. You can even replace a
single middle panel. All you do is just clamp the bottom
panel in place. The spring doesn't know why it can move
further (gravity or a polar bear pulling on it). And I
don't care what Clopay says. You don't really thing auto
mechanics follow all the procedures outlined by the
manufacturer for changing parts do you?

Ok. Strike one--You don't really understand how mechanical
things work. Strike two--You mix up what other people say.
Strike three -- You think that there is only one way to do
something. Strike four-- You can't respond correctly in the
thread.

I really find it hard to believe that you are a Ph.D.

Roger Shoaf wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...


Stupid reckless, ignorant teenager! Isn't the school
holiday over? Have you ever seen a multi section garage door?


George,

Richard has seen a sectional garage door, he has a picture of one on his web
page showing how he single handedly fixed a spring and didn't get killed
because he had the foresight to use an 18 inch lever. Most amazing thing
was he did this perched on a ladder.

Not bad for a PhD eh?

Hey, I just did read it. I skimmed it quickly but thought
it was pedantic, although he might have some good
theoretical info. What caught my attention and gave me the
willies was the picture of a 12 point ratchet wrench on a
square head set screw. After another quick look, I see that
earlier in the article he has a monologue about picking a
wrench and finally selected an open end wrench for this
screw. That tells me he doesn't use tools much as any
non-novice would immediately have picked an open end wrench
(or even a Crescent wrench).

But why does he show the 12 point ratchet being used after
he goes through the mess about picking a wrench?

Enough critique since I'm not getting paid for this.

Oh, the ladder doesn't bother me, but he should have had it
against the front wall based on the direction of force
needed to wind the spring.

Roger Shoaf writes:

1000's of pounds? Gosh will you make up your mind

Ft-lbs, not pounds. This is not your subject.

George E. Cawthon writes:

And you sir, are obviously very wrong. Removing the two
lower wheels of the lowest section has no effect on the
weight of the door or the weight/spring dynamics.

Big mistake as I've already explained. Those with intelligence and
critical faculties can review it if need be. Your mind is made up,

George E. Cawthon writes:

But why are you arguing against Pop, he is on your side.

Not clear who he was addressing. I may have misunderstood him.

Richard J Kinch wrote:
George E. Cawthon writes:


And you sir, are obviously very wrong. Removing the two
lower wheels of the lowest section has no effect on the
weight of the door or the weight/spring dynamics.


Big mistake as I've already explained. Those with intelligence and
critical faculties can review it if need be. Your mind is made up,

Well, who cares. There should be no reason to do anything
with the springs just to change the bottom seal. But if
there is just rip it off and nail on a new one. Forget the
metal thing that the rubber slide in. Anyway, I think the
OP quit and went home.