Hello:

Have been looking at homes lately, and find that many are using
tankless water heaters for supplying the hot water faucets in the home.

Know nothing about how these works, or their pros and cons.

I can figure out how the electric models work, I think, but how
do the gas and oil ones operate ?

I had a very old house once that had a tankless water heater on the regular
home furnace. I'm not sure if the heat from the furnace, or some of the
water
used for the forced hot water heating system was on the primary side of this
heat exchanger.
Just out of curiosity which was most likely ?

a. Any explanations on how my old one probably functioned, and how the new
ones do now would be most appreciated.

b. are they generally considered to be cheaper to operate than the stand
alone tank types (I live in the Northeast) ?

c. are they very popular these days ?

d. pros and cons ?

Much thanks,
Bob

I have a Bosch gas tankless, my bills dropped by more than 50% in
summer. Bosch has a 15 yr coil warranty and senses water flow to give
the correct amount of heat. Takagi makes larger units and Bosche`s
large unit. I have a 4-5 yr pay back a good investment.

Are you able to take 2 showers at the same time? Or are you able to take a
shower and have dishwasher run? Someone told me that the newer ones are
sensing output temp to account for more than one fixture on at the same
time.?

TIA.

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
I have a Bosch gas tankless, my bills dropped by more than 50% in
summer. Bosch has a 15 yr coil warranty and senses water flow to give
the correct amount of heat. Takagi makes larger units and Bosche`s
large unit. I have a 4-5 yr pay back a good investment.

I have the smal 117000 btu unit and could possibly but I have 1 shower.
I have run a sink and shower fine. If you need 2 use get the 188000 btu
model by Takagi. Takagi makes Bosches large unit and can come with
remote thermostat. Bosch and takagi heat with flow, the more gpm the
more heat is given. I believe heat starts at 1/2 gpm.

I live in a mobile home, where the water heater
is about 40' from the kitchen faucet.

I've been looking at small ( 1.5 gal ) water heaters.
They're about the size of a large picnic jug.
Sit under the sink, and plug into any 120v outlet.
You plumb it in series with your hot water faucet.

It probably handles most of the kitchen faucet needs.



On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 12:28:06 -0500, "Robert11"
wrote:

Hello:

Have been looking at homes lately, and find that many are using
tankless water heaters for supplying the hot water faucets in the home.

Know nothing about how these works, or their pros and cons.

I can figure out how the electric models work, I think, but how
do the gas and oil ones operate ?

I had a very old house once that had a tankless water heater on the regular
home furnace. I'm not sure if the heat from the furnace, or some of the
water
used for the forced hot water heating system was on the primary side of this
heat exchanger.
Just out of curiosity which was most likely ?

a. Any explanations on how my old one probably functioned, and how the new
ones do now would be most appreciated.

b. are they generally considered to be cheaper to operate than the stand
alone tank types (I live in the Northeast) ?

c. are they very popular these days ?

d. pros and cons ?

Much thanks,
Bob

rj

"Robert11" wrote in message
...
Hello:

Have been looking at homes lately, and find that many are using
tankless water heaters for supplying the hot water faucets in the home.

Know nothing about how these works, or their pros and cons.

I can figure out how the electric models work, I think, but how
do the gas and oil ones operate ?

I had a very old house once that had a tankless water heater on the
regular
home furnace. I'm not sure if the heat from the furnace, or some of the
water
used for the forced hot water heating system was on the primary side of
this
heat exchanger.
Just out of curiosity which was most likely ?

a. Any explanations on how my old one probably functioned, and how the
new
ones do now would be most appreciated.

b. are they generally considered to be cheaper to operate than the stand
alone tank types (I live in the Northeast) ?

c. are they very popular these days ?

d. pros and cons ?

Much thanks,
Bob


Why do you want to heat hot water?

What do these cost aprox.? Not for the installation just the tanks and trim.

I know that a gas water heater is aprox 30k btus & understand that one
cannot run them constantly. And lets just say that they cost average of 400.

Oreo

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
I have the smal 117000 btu unit and could possibly but I have 1 shower.
I have run a sink and shower fine. If you need 2 use get the 188000 btu
model by Takagi. Takagi makes Bosches large unit and can come with
remote thermostat. Bosch and takagi heat with flow, the more gpm the
more heat is given. I believe heat starts at 1/2 gpm.

Greetings,

Instead you might look at a pump which circulates hot water between the
faucet and the existing tank so that there is always hot water instantly
when you turn on the tap. Just be sure to insulate your how water pipes.

Hope this helps,
William

"RJ" wrote in message
...

I live in a mobile home, where the water heater
is about 40' from the kitchen faucet.

I've been looking at small ( 1.5 gal ) water heaters.
They're about the size of a large picnic jug.
Sit under the sink, and plug into any 120v outlet.
You plumb it in series with your hot water faucet.

It probably handles most of the kitchen faucet needs.



On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 12:28:06 -0500, "Robert11"
wrote:

Hello:

Have been looking at homes lately, and find that many are using
tankless water heaters for supplying the hot water faucets in the home.

Know nothing about how these works, or their pros and cons.

I can figure out how the electric models work, I think, but how
do the gas and oil ones operate ?

I had a very old house once that had a tankless water heater on the
regular
home furnace. I'm not sure if the heat from the furnace, or some of the
water
used for the forced hot water heating system was on the primary side of
this
heat exchanger.
Just out of curiosity which was most likely ?

a. Any explanations on how my old one probably functioned, and how the
new
ones do now would be most appreciated.

b. are they generally considered to be cheaper to operate than the stand
alone tank types (I live in the Northeast) ?

c. are they very popular these days ?

d. pros and cons ?

Much thanks,
Bob

rj

We have had great luck with our envirotech unit and use it for hydronic
heating and hot water. We adjust the temp when we use it for a shower or
need a lower temp. In the summer we keep it at a low temp 85deg and turn it
up when we need hotter water. We have saved over 20% compared to our gas
unit. I also live in the northeast and these units can heat 30deg water hot
enough for a shower and even hotter than you can stand for washing dishes.
Only reason people don't like them is the high amp rating of the heater
scares them away. Mine is 120amps. Also they are easy to install if there
is an electrical panel close by it can be installed in less than an hour.
Plumbers can't make much on an hour of work. And they last longer so they
won't be replacing it too soon so that also makes plumbers profit go down.
Some people with really hard water or other water problems need a new heater
every few years. This unit won't leak guaranteed and the stainless steel
elements will last a long time. Let me know if your interested I can get
you a deal on one

Robert Rolleston
518-260-5934

"Robert11" wrote in message
...
Hello:

Have been looking at homes lately, and find that many are using
tankless water heaters for supplying the hot water faucets in the home.

Know nothing about how these works, or their pros and cons.

I can figure out how the electric models work, I think, but how
do the gas and oil ones operate ?

I had a very old house once that had a tankless water heater on the
regular
home furnace. I'm not sure if the heat from the furnace, or some of the
water
used for the forced hot water heating system was on the primary side of
this
heat exchanger.
Just out of curiosity which was most likely ?

a. Any explanations on how my old one probably functioned, and how the
new
ones do now would be most appreciated.

b. are they generally considered to be cheaper to operate than the stand
alone tank types (I live in the Northeast) ?

c. are they very popular these days ?

d. pros and cons ?

Much thanks,
Bob

So Rolleston you SELL them. Well in most of the US gas is 60% cheaper
than electric and the N East some areas are near 70% cheaper for gas.
So I think you are full of cow crap. I put in a Gas Tankless, I removed
a double insulated electric tank and my utilies went down 80%.. No I do
not sell them , so I am unbiased unlike you. All research and facts
prove gas is cheaper, than even electric tankless.
Even Bosch-Aquastar agree and they sell electric tankless as well as
gas.

I'm not saying they are cheaper just saying they are good and will save
money. But that all depends on gas price only gas available here is
propane at about 3 bucks a gallon and electric at .10 a kw/h or less we save
about 20 percent. Plus the heat we used to lose out the 4 inch hole in the
roof. We also like the full 5 year warranty that covers everything in the
unit and a lifetime warranty against leaking. Before I sell a unit I always
offer to help the buyer figure out operating costs. And yes with people
that have a really cheap gas price usually don't buy.
"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
So Rolleston you SELL them. Well in most of the US gas is 60% cheaper
than electric and the N East some areas are near 70% cheaper for gas.
So I think you are full of cow crap. I put in a Gas Tankless, I removed
a double insulated electric tank and my utilies went down 80%.. No I do
not sell them , so I am unbiased unlike you. All research and facts
prove gas is cheaper, than even electric tankless.
Even Bosch-Aquastar agree and they sell electric tankless as well as
gas.

I HOPE that was a typo - 120 AMPS???

3$ a gallon for propane .10KWH where do you live, and NG price ? Your
claims on savings do not reflect US bulk propane or any Ng gas cost
comparison. Therefore they are untrue as to true pricing. But I am not
suprised you play with facts, you are just selling them any BS way you
can.

(m Ransley) wrote:

So Rolleston you SELL them. Well in most of the US gas is 60% cheaper
than electric and the N East some areas are near 70% cheaper for gas.

Does that still hold true? I can't get Natural Gas, so I just have
the propane price---- but here in NY my LP gas has gone from $1.45 a
gallon to $2.26 in the last 6 years while my electricity [Niagra
Mohawk] has remained steadily between 11.5-12.5 cents per KWH over the
same period. [that's actual cost, including all adjustments-- usually
a couple cents higher than what it says I'm paying per KWH on the
bill]

So I think you are full of cow crap. I put in a Gas Tankless, I removed
a double insulated electric tank and my utilies went down 80%.. No I do
not sell them , so I am unbiased unlike you. All research and facts
prove gas is cheaper, than even electric tankless.

When I replaced my electric with gas it wasn't a dramatic savings---
and now it is likely to cost a bit more, but I'm looking at a tankless
gas anyway-- everlasting hot water and space saving in my basement.
[and my gas has been maintenance free for 15 yrs or so, while the
electric took a new element every couple years]

Even Bosch-Aquastar agree and they sell electric tankless as well as
gas.

You had to make me go look--- the 125B is on sale for $399. [$100
off]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H16A51DC9
[goes to]
http://www.houseneeds.com/shop/Heati...Starlineup.htm

grrrrr -- I didn't want to do this until next summer, but I feel my
Scotch blood kicking in.

I see that the 125B has a pilot--- is yours pilotless? [I'm torn
between the minimal amount of gas used vs being able to take a hot
shower during a blackout. we have city water]

Jim

125 has 2 pilotless models, one with 2 D Cells, mine are going on 2 yrs
now and one with a mini hydro generator, 125 is a one shower model.
170000 Btu. There is also a 180000 Btu model.

OP said 3$ propane, well where? At HD in 1 lb bottles, yes.

0.125 KWH is apx equal to Ng at 2.95 a therm. In the midwest it is apx
1.05 a therm now , nearly 1/3rd the cost.

we don't have NG available we are quite far out of town. We are near the
vermont border.
"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
3$ a gallon for propane .10KWH where do you live, and NG price ? Your
claims on savings do not reflect US bulk propane or any Ng gas cost
comparison. Therefore they are untrue as to true pricing. But I am not
suprised you play with facts, you are just selling them any BS way you
can.

no that's it 120amp's works great even get a nice hot shower with water
coming in at almost freezing temps.

"HaHaHa" wrote in message
...
I HOPE that was a typo - 120 AMPS???

My gas company changes prices so much sometimes you can call for a price and
when they finally deliver it can be different unless you pay for a large
amount usually more than one will use in a year. Then they will give you a
deal.

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
3$ a gallon for propane .10KWH where do you live, and NG price ? Your
claims on savings do not reflect US bulk propane or any Ng gas cost
comparison. Therefore they are untrue as to true pricing. But I am not
suprised you play with facts, you are just selling them any BS way you
can.

Your claims on energy savings are unrealistic and do not represent 99%
of the US.

3 $ propane a gallon B.S. give me the supliers name and location. HD
sells 14 oz for 2.79, and 20 lb here for 18 $. Sure you say you save,
but nobody else will at normal utility costs.

Other than that if you have a 120a circuit free they and only pay
0.4 KWH they work well.
Gee I only have a 100a panel, And adding 150a will only cost 1000-
1500 $ sounds like a great idea. Especialy at 0.125 Kwh

"Robert Rolleston" wrote in message ...
We have had great luck with our envirotech unit and use it for hydronic
heating and hot water. We adjust the temp when we use it for a shower or
need a lower temp. In the summer we keep it at a low temp 85deg and turn it
up when we need hotter water. We have saved over 20% compared to our gas
unit. I also live in the northeast and these units can heat 30deg water hot
enough for a shower and even hotter than you can stand for washing dishes.
Only reason people don't like them is the high amp rating of the heater
scares them away. Mine is 120amps. Also they are easy to install if there
is an electrical panel close by it can be installed in less than an hour.
Plumbers can't make much on an hour of work. And they last longer so they
won't be replacing it too soon so that also makes plumbers profit go down.
Some people with really hard water or other water problems need a new heater
every few years. This unit won't leak guaranteed and the stainless steel
elements will last a long time. Let me know if your interested I can get
you a deal on one

Robert Rolleston
518-260-5934


You may be able to get someone a deal, but can you get it shipped to
them? When was the last time you sold one of those envirotech's? I
understand from some of their larger distributors that it's taking
them up to 6 months to get one delivered now. Why don't you go to
pinksheets.com and check the public records out to see how well
they're doing. Their stock symbol is TSYW. Take a look at their last
5 SEC filings. Those are the most interesting ones. They have filed
for bankruptcy, have multiple lawsuits filed against them and even a
lawsuit filed by them against the previous owners and their wives. It
doesn't look pretty.

$1000-$1500 to install a 150a service. That seems pretty high.
"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Your claims on energy savings are unrealistic and do not represent 99%
of the US.

3 $ propane a gallon B.S. give me the supliers name and location. HD
sells 14 oz for 2.79, and 20 lb here for 18 $. Sure you say you save,
but nobody else will at normal utility costs.

Other than that if you have a 120a circuit free they and only pay
0.4 KWH they work well.
Gee I only have a 100a panel, And adding 150a will only cost 1000-
1500 $ sounds like a great idea. Especialy at 0.125 Kwh

So they save money and have a Lifetime warranty against leaking.

Lifetime eh, looks like there won`t be a company around to back zip ,
but maybe you know that and are just unloading stock, You have BS ed on
everything else.

This is for all you people out there that are against Electric Tankless
Water Heaters. These will be available from Stiebel Eltron at the end of
2004. I will be adding this beast to my must have list. Along with maybe
another 200 amp panel to power it.