My main house panel has a 30 AMP breaker that controlling a single line that
runs to the garage and has only a receptacle attached to it. I have a
complete main panel box/100 amp breaker and other breakers that were taken
out when the main panel was recently upgraded to 200 AMP. I want to have
several separate lines in the garage for door opener, work bench, lights,
etc. My question is how do I hook up the line to the extra panel? Do I
just connect to the 100 amp main just so that both sides of the panel box
are energized and then connect the couple of lines I need in the garage to
the individual 15 AMP breakers in the usual manner? Your input is
appreciated. John


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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JohnF wrote:

My main house panel has a 30 AMP breaker that controlling a single line that
runs to the garage and has only a receptacle attached to it. I have a
complete main panel box/100 amp breaker and other breakers that were taken
out when the main panel was recently upgraded to 200 AMP. I want to have
several separate lines in the garage for door opener, work bench, lights,
etc. My question is how do I hook up the line to the extra panel? Do I
just connect to the 100 amp main just so that both sides of the panel box
are energized and then connect the couple of lines I need in the garage to
the individual 15 AMP breakers in the usual manner? Your input is
appreciated. John



I assume you'd like to use the existing wires.

Do you need 240V, or is 120V adequate? What size wire is the existing
circuit? The existing 30A breaker to a single outlet is probably done
incorrectly unless it is a clothes dryer outlet, so I don't want to make
any assumptions about what you are starting with.

Is this an attached garage or detached?

Bob

"JohnF" wrote in message
...
My main house panel has a 30 AMP breaker that controlling a single line
that
runs to the garage and has only a receptacle attached to it. I have a
complete main panel box/100 amp breaker and other breakers that were taken
out when the main panel was recently upgraded to 200 AMP. I want to have
several separate lines in the garage for door opener, work bench, lights,
etc. My question is how do I hook up the line to the extra panel? Do I
just connect to the 100 amp main just so that both sides of the panel box
are energized and then connect the couple of lines I need in the garage to
the individual 15 AMP breakers in the usual manner? Your input is
appreciated. John


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.710 / Virus Database: 466 - Release Date: 06/23/2004

Your questions are to vague to even start trying to help.

You say it is a 30a outlet.
30a 240v or 120v?
3wire or 4wire?

I am going to "guess" it is a 30a 240v with 3wire. If so, then what you
want to do is impossible. A subpanel requires 4wire.

All you could do (and I doubt it would be legal with the old breaker box)
would be to change the circuit to 120v, run it to the box and take 2 or 3
120v circuits out of it.

If it is infact 4wire, then sure it can be done; but you probably don't want
to do it yourself.

toller wrote:

You say it is a 30a outlet.
30a 240v or 120v?
3wire or 4wire?

I am going to "guess" it is a 30a 240v with 3wire. If so, then what you
want to do is impossible. A subpanel requires 4wire.

All you could do (and I doubt it would be legal with the old breaker box)
would be to change the circuit to 120v, run it to the box and take 2 or 3
120v circuits out of it.

If it is infact 4wire, then sure it can be done; but you probably don't want
to do it yourself.


Is the garage attached or detached?
How many wires are run to the receptacle?
--
Tom H

"toller" wrote in message ...
You say it is a 30a outlet.
30a 240v or 120v?
3wire or 4wire?

I am going to "guess" it is a 30a 240v with 3wire. If so, then what you
want to do is impossible.


A subpanel requires 4wire.

TOTALLY FALSE!!!. In a DETACHED STRUCTURE, provided there are no other
metallic paths to the home, a 3 wire run is fine. You must bond at
the garage, and have a ground rod, but that is easy. If the garage is
attached, this would not be kosher but the garage is detached.
Remember the rule "leeves as a feeder, arrives as a service"


All you could do (and I doubt it would be legal with the old breaker box)
would be to change the circuit to 120v, run it to the box and take 2 or 3
120v circuits out of it.

If it is infact 4wire, then sure it can be done; but you probably don't want
to do it yourself.

Al wrote:
...but the garage is detached.

We don't know that yet. John hasn't answered that question yet.

Remember the rule "leeves as a feeder, arrives as a service"


Best regards,
Bob

TOTALLY FALSE!!!. In a DETACHED STRUCTURE, provided there are no other
metallic paths to the home, a 3 wire run is fine. You must bond at
the garage, and have a ground rod, but that is easy.

I stand corrected.
Why is a ground rod allowed on detached buildings, but not on attached
buildings?

either go to the library and educate yourself or call an electrician.
possibly both.

randy

"JohnF" wrote in message
...
My main house panel has a 30 AMP breaker that controlling a single line
that
runs to the garage and has only a receptacle attached to it. I have a
complete main panel box/100 amp breaker and other breakers that were taken
out when the main panel was recently upgraded to 200 AMP. I want to have
several separate lines in the garage for door opener, work bench, lights,
etc. My question is how do I hook up the line to the extra panel? Do I
just connect to the 100 amp main just so that both sides of the panel box
are energized and then connect the couple of lines I need in the garage to
the individual 15 AMP breakers in the usual manner? Your input is
appreciated. John


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.710 / Virus Database: 466 - Release Date: 06/23/2004

Sorry I left out key info. The garage is detached and is approx 50' from
the main house panel . It is a 240V line; the wire is #12/3 plus ground.
At the moment only a 120v leg is attached to a 15A receptacle. I want to use
the existing wire that is running from the house to the garage. Thanks.
John


"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
JohnF wrote:

My main house panel has a 30 AMP breaker that controlling a single line
that
runs to the garage and has only a receptacle attached to it. I have a
complete main panel box/100 amp breaker and other breakers that were
taken
out when the main panel was recently upgraded to 200 AMP. I want to have
several separate lines in the garage for door opener, work bench,
lights,
etc. My question is how do I hook up the line to the extra panel? Do I
just connect to the 100 amp main just so that both sides of the panel
box
are energized and then connect the couple of lines I need in the garage
to
the individual 15 AMP breakers in the usual manner? Your input is
appreciated. John



I assume you'd like to use the existing wires.

Do you need 240V, or is 120V adequate? What size wire is the existing
circuit? The existing 30A breaker to a single outlet is probably done
incorrectly unless it is a clothes dryer outlet, so I don't want to make
any assumptions about what you are starting with.

Is this an attached garage or detached?

Bob


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.710 / Virus Database: 466 - Release Date: 06/23/2004

JohnF wrote:
Sorry I left out key info. The garage is detached and is approx 50' from
the main house panel . It is a 240V line; the wire is #12/3 plus ground.
At the moment only a 120v leg is attached to a 15A receptacle. I want to use
the existing wire that is running from the house to the garage. Thanks.
John


"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

JohnF wrote:


My main house panel has a 30 AMP breaker that controlling a single line

that

runs to the garage and has only a receptacle attached to it. I have a
complete main panel box/100 amp breaker and other breakers that were

taken

out when the main panel was recently upgraded to 200 AMP. I want to have
several separate lines in the garage for door opener, work bench,

lights,

etc. My question is how do I hook up the line to the extra panel? Do I
just connect to the 100 amp main just so that both sides of the panel

box

are energized and then connect the couple of lines I need in the garage

to

the individual 15 AMP breakers in the usual manner? Your input is
appreciated. John

John
If the wire is twelve gage then there is no need for any panel in the
garage. Just change the breaker from a thirty ampere to a double pole
twenty ampere breaker. At the garage you install a switch box that will
hold a two pole single throw switch. The black wire goes to one pole of
the switch the red wire to the other pole of the switch with the white
spliced through and the green/bare bonded to the switch strap or yoke.
The switch should be rated for the full twenty amperes but you could use
two separate single pole switches if you preferred. A single two pole
switch is better practice. The switch will serve as the building
disconnecting means and it must be located very close to were the wires
enter the building. The circuit that you will then have is called a
multiwire branch circuit. You are allowed to use two single pole
breakers on that circuit but one two pole breaker is better practice for
residential property. If the circuit will supply a 240 volt load, such
as a large unit air conditioner, in addition to the 120 volt loads then
you must use a two pole breaker to protect it and a two pole switch as
the building disconnecting means. That circuit will give you the
equivalent of two twenty ampere 120 volt circuits without running
another wire. The circuit for your work bench receptacle outlets will
be connected between the white and black and the circuit for the lights
and door opener will be connected between the white and the red. Each
circuit will then have 120 volts with 240 volts between the black and
red. That is what allows the two circuits to share the white neutral.
--
Tom

Thanks for the input. So do I understand this then that I simply install a
20 amp wall switch at the garage entry point and a panel with 2 pole
breaker? Again thanks.

"HorneTD" wrote in message
hlink.net...
JohnF wrote:
Sorry I left out key info. The garage is detached and is approx 50'
from
the main house panel . It is a 240V line; the wire is #12/3 plus
ground.
At the moment only a 120v leg is attached to a 15A receptacle. I want to
use
the existing wire that is running from the house to the garage.
Thanks.
John


"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

JohnF wrote:


My main house panel has a 30 AMP breaker that controlling a single line

that

runs to the garage and has only a receptacle attached to it. I have a
complete main panel box/100 amp breaker and other breakers that were

taken

out when the main panel was recently upgraded to 200 AMP. I want to
have
several separate lines in the garage for door opener, work bench,

lights,

etc. My question is how do I hook up the line to the extra panel? Do
I
just connect to the 100 amp main just so that both sides of the panel

box

are energized and then connect the couple of lines I need in the garage

to

the individual 15 AMP breakers in the usual manner? Your input is
appreciated. John

John
If the wire is twelve gage then there is no need for any panel in the
garage. Just change the breaker from a thirty ampere to a double pole
twenty ampere breaker. At the garage you install a switch box that will
hold a two pole single throw switch. The black wire goes to one pole of
the switch the red wire to the other pole of the switch with the white
spliced through and the green/bare bonded to the switch strap or yoke.
The switch should be rated for the full twenty amperes but you could use
two separate single pole switches if you preferred. A single two pole
switch is better practice. The switch will serve as the building
disconnecting means and it must be located very close to were the wires
enter the building. The circuit that you will then have is called a
multiwire branch circuit. You are allowed to use two single pole
breakers on that circuit but one two pole breaker is better practice for
residential property. If the circuit will supply a 240 volt load, such
as a large unit air conditioner, in addition to the 120 volt loads then
you must use a two pole breaker to protect it and a two pole switch as
the building disconnecting means. That circuit will give you the
equivalent of two twenty ampere 120 volt circuits without running
another wire. The circuit for your work bench receptacle outlets will
be connected between the white and black and the circuit for the lights
and door opener will be connected between the white and the red. Each
circuit will then have 120 volts with 240 volts between the black and
red. That is what allows the two circuits to share the white neutral.
--
Tom

JohnF wrote:
Thanks for the input. So do I understand this then that I simply install a
20 amp wall switch at the garage entry point and a panel with 2 pole
breaker? Again thanks.

"HorneTD" wrote in message
hlink.net...

JohnF wrote:

Sorry I left out key info. The garage is detached and is approx 50'

from

the main house panel . It is a 240V line; the wire is #12/3 plus

ground.

At the moment only a 120v leg is attached to a 15A receptacle. I want to

use

the existing wire that is running from the house to the garage.

Thanks.

John


"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...


JohnF wrote:



My main house panel has a 30 AMP breaker that controlling a single line

that


runs to the garage and has only a receptacle attached to it. I have a
complete main panel box/100 amp breaker and other breakers that were

taken


out when the main panel was recently upgraded to 200 AMP. I want to

have

several separate lines in the garage for door opener, work bench,

lights,


etc. My question is how do I hook up the line to the extra panel? Do

I

just connect to the 100 amp main just so that both sides of the panel

box


are energized and then connect the couple of lines I need in the garage

to


the individual 15 AMP breakers in the usual manner? Your input is
appreciated. John

John
If the wire is twelve gage then there is no need for any panel in the
garage. Just change the breaker from a thirty ampere to a double pole
twenty ampere breaker. At the garage you install a switch box that will
hold a two pole single throw switch. The black wire goes to one pole of
the switch the red wire to the other pole of the switch with the white
spliced through and the green/bare bonded to the switch strap or yoke.
The switch should be rated for the full twenty amperes but you could use
two separate single pole switches if you preferred. A single two pole
switch is better practice. The switch will serve as the building
disconnecting means and it must be located very close to were the wires
enter the building. The circuit that you will then have is called a
multiwire branch circuit. You are allowed to use two single pole
breakers on that circuit but one two pole breaker is better practice for
residential property. If the circuit will supply a 240 volt load, such
as a large unit air conditioner, in addition to the 120 volt loads then
you must use a two pole breaker to protect it and a two pole switch as
the building disconnecting means. That circuit will give you the
equivalent of two twenty ampere 120 volt circuits without running
another wire. The circuit for your work bench receptacle outlets will
be connected between the white and black and the circuit for the lights
and door opener will be connected between the white and the red. Each
circuit will then have 120 volts with 240 volts between the black and
red. That is what allows the two circuits to share the white neutral.
--
Tom




John
The new two pole, twenty ampere, breaker is installed in the panel at
the house were the circuit to the detached garage originates. You don't
need any new panel in the garage. Just install a switch or switches at
the garage to function as the required building disconnecting means.
--
Tom Horne

HorneTD wrote:
John
The new two pole, twenty ampere, breaker is installed in the panel at
the house were the circuit to the detached garage originates. You don't
need any new panel in the garage. Just install a switch or switches at
the garage to function as the required building disconnecting means.
--
Tom Horne


But if you have a salvaged panel (which if I remember right, you do),
you *can* use it instead of the switches. That might be handy if, say,
someday you convert your air compressor or table saw to 240V.

For just a 20A feeder, I think I'd use a 30A air conditioner disconnect
as my building disconnect (they are really cheap), and from there split
into a couple of 20A 120V circuits.

The most important thing is to replace that 30A breaker in the house
with a 20A to match you #12 wire size.

Bob

Thanks Tom. I am taking 2-pole switch to mean just like a light switch. Am I
then just running the lines from the new 2-pole switch box to the future
garage door opener and work bench? This is certainly an easy and fast way
but without breakers in the garage if a line overloads for some reason I
can't reset from the garage which is what I would like to be able to do.
John


"HorneTD" wrote in message
hlink.net...
JohnF wrote:
Thanks for the input. So do I understand this then that I simply install
a
20 amp wall switch at the garage entry point and a panel with 2 pole
breaker? Again thanks.

"HorneTD" wrote in message
hlink.net...

JohnF wrote:

Sorry I left out key info. The garage is detached and is approx 50'
from the main house panel . It is a 240V line; the wire is #12/3 plus
ground. At the moment only a 120v leg is attached to a 15A receptacle. I
want to use the existing wire that is running from the house to the garage.

Thanks.

John


"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...


JohnF wrote:
John
If the wire is twelve gage then there is no need for any panel in the
garage. Just change the breaker from a thirty ampere to a double pole
twenty ampere breaker. At the garage you install a switch box that will
hold a two pole single throw switch. The black wire goes to one pole of
the switch the red wire to the other pole of the switch with the white
spliced through and the green/bare bonded to the switch strap or yoke.
The switch should be rated for the full twenty amperes but you could use
two separate single pole switches if you preferred. A single two pole
switch is better practice. The switch will serve as the building
disconnecting means and it must be located very close to were the wires
enter the building. The circuit that you will then have is called a
multiwire branch circuit. You are allowed to use two single pole
breakers on that circuit but one two pole breaker is better practice for
residential property. If the circuit will supply a 240 volt load, such
as a large unit air conditioner, in addition to the 120 volt loads then
you must use a two pole breaker to protect it and a two pole switch as
the building disconnecting means. That circuit will give you the
equivalent of two twenty ampere 120 volt circuits without running
another wire. The circuit for your work bench receptacle outlets will
be connected between the white and black and the circuit for the lights
and door opener will be connected between the white and the red. Each
circuit will then have 120 volts with 240 volts between the black and
red. That is what allows the two circuits to share the white neutral.
--
Tom

John
The new two pole, twenty ampere, breaker is installed in the panel at
the house were the circuit to the detached garage originates. You don't
need any new panel in the garage. Just install a switch or switches at
the garage to function as the required building disconnecting means.
--
Tom Horne

A ground rod and bonding is allowed one time for each seperate
building (seperate from any metallic path. this is to eliminate
neutral current flow on a ground rod.

JohnF wrote:

"HorneTD" wrote in message
hlink.net...

JohnF wrote:

Thanks for the input. So do I understand this then that I simply install

a

20 amp wall switch at the garage entry point and a panel with 2 pole
breaker? Again thanks.

"HorneTD" wrote in message
arthlink.net...


JohnF wrote:


Sorry I left out key info. The garage is detached and is approx 50'

from the main house panel . It is a 240V line; the wire is #12/3 plus
ground. At the moment only a 120v leg is attached to a 15A receptacle. I
want to use the existing wire that is running from the house to the garage.

Thanks.


John


"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...



JohnF wrote:

John

If the wire is twelve gage then there is no need for any panel in the
garage. Just change the breaker from a thirty ampere to a double pole
twenty ampere breaker. At the garage you install a switch box that will
hold a two pole single throw switch. The black wire goes to one pole of
the switch the red wire to the other pole of the switch with the white
spliced through and the green/bare bonded to the switch strap or yoke.
The switch should be rated for the full twenty amperes but you could use
two separate single pole switches if you preferred. A single two pole
switch is better practice. The switch will serve as the building
disconnecting means and it must be located very close to were the wires
enter the building. The circuit that you will then have is called a
multiwire branch circuit. You are allowed to use two single pole
breakers on that circuit but one two pole breaker is better practice for
residential property. If the circuit will supply a 240 volt load, such
as a large unit air conditioner, in addition to the 120 volt loads then
you must use a two pole breaker to protect it and a two pole switch as
the building disconnecting means. That circuit will give you the
equivalent of two twenty ampere 120 volt circuits without running
another wire. The circuit for your work bench receptacle outlets will
be connected between the white and black and the circuit for the lights
and door opener will be connected between the white and the red. Each
circuit will then have 120 volts with 240 volts between the black and
red. That is what allows the two circuits to share the white neutral.
--
Tom

John
The new two pole, twenty ampere, breaker is installed in the panel at
the house were the circuit to the detached garage originates. You don't
need any new panel in the garage. Just install a switch or switches at
the garage to function as the required building disconnecting means.
--
Tom Horne

Thanks Tom. I am taking 2-pole switch to mean just like a light switch. Am I
then just running the lines from the new 2-pole switch box to the future
garage door opener and work bench? This is certainly an easy and fast way
but without breakers in the garage if a line overloads for some reason I
can't reset from the garage which is what I would like to be able to do.
John

You can have breakers in the garage if you use a small panel at the end
of your twenty ampere feeder but if the overload is caused by the loads
on more than one of the branch circuit breakers in the garage it will
still trip the feeder breaker back in the house panel. With the feeder
having a capacity of twenty amperes installing a sub panel in the garage
is not worth the work involved. If you do install a sub panel you have
to build a Grounding Electrode System for the garage. With only a
single multi-wire branch circuit a grounding electrode system is not
required.

Someone else has suggested that you use an air conditioning disconnect
as the garage building disconnecting means. The problem is that the
building disconnecting means must be "suitable for use as service
equipment" and most air conditioning disconnects are not. The exception
to that rule allows the use of "snap switches", which is the code
language for an ordinary toggle switch, but that exception does not
permit the use of other types of switches or pullouts that are not
"suitable for use as service equipment." The exception is only meant to
permit the use of snap switches for residential outbuildings. If any
more elaborate disconnect is needed then the device used must be listed
by an electrical testing laboratory and marked "suitable for use as
service equipment."
--
Tom H

According to JohnF :
Thanks Tom. I am taking 2-pole switch to mean just like a light switch.

Not quite. A two pole switch switches two circuits at once. That's
rare in light switches. Light switches usually come as "one way",
"two way" or "three way" - which isn't the same thing at all, and
won't properly switch 240V.

You might wish to consider something a bit beefier than a light switch
acting as a disconnect.

While a light switch works fine IF there's nothing running on the circuit
when you operate them, the usual ones won't like switching current
flow to motorized equipment for very long.

Electrical codes do not permit the use of standard duty light switches
(or breakers for that matter) acting as the power switches for motors.

Horsepower rated switches (or "real" power disconnect switches) are
better.

If you don't expect to be operating the switch that much, and
you make a habit of ensuring that everything is off when you
do operate the switch, it's probably fine.

Don't know how picky an inspector might be.

A decent two pole switch is likely to have a horse power rating on it -
look for that when buying the switch.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

JohnF wrote:

Thanks Tom. I am taking 2-pole switch to mean just like a light switch. Am I
then just running the lines from the new 2-pole switch box to the future
garage door opener and work bench? This is certainly an easy and fast way
but without breakers in the garage if a line overloads for some reason I
can't reset from the garage which is what I would like to be able to do.
John


"HorneTD" wrote in message
hlink.net...

JohnF wrote:

Thanks for the input. So do I understand this then that I simply install

a

20 amp wall switch at the garage entry point and a panel with 2 pole
breaker? Again thanks.

"HorneTD" wrote in message
arthlink.net...


JohnF wrote:


Sorry I left out key info. The garage is detached and is approx 50'

from the main house panel . It is a 240V line; the wire is #12/3 plus
ground. At the moment only a 120v leg is attached to a 15A receptacle. I
want to use the existing wire that is running from the house to the garage.

Thanks.


John


"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...



JohnF wrote:

John

If the wire is twelve gage then there is no need for any panel in the
garage. Just change the breaker from a thirty ampere to a double pole
twenty ampere breaker. At the garage you install a switch box that will
hold a two pole single throw switch. The black wire goes to one pole of
the switch the red wire to the other pole of the switch with the white
spliced through and the green/bare bonded to the switch strap or yoke.
The switch should be rated for the full twenty amperes but you could use
two separate single pole switches if you preferred. A single two pole
switch is better practice. The switch will serve as the building
disconnecting means and it must be located very close to were the wires
enter the building. The circuit that you will then have is called a
multiwire branch circuit. You are allowed to use two single pole
breakers on that circuit but one two pole breaker is better practice for
residential property. If the circuit will supply a 240 volt load, such
as a large unit air conditioner, in addition to the 120 volt loads then
you must use a two pole breaker to protect it and a two pole switch as
the building disconnecting means. That circuit will give you the
equivalent of two twenty ampere 120 volt circuits without running
another wire. The circuit for your work bench receptacle outlets will
be connected between the white and black and the circuit for the lights
and door opener will be connected between the white and the red. Each
circuit will then have 120 volts with 240 volts between the black and
red. That is what allows the two circuits to share the white neutral.
--
Tom

John
The new two pole, twenty ampere, breaker is installed in the panel at
the house were the circuit to the detached garage originates. You don't
need any new panel in the garage. Just install a switch or switches at
the garage to function as the required building disconnecting means.
--
Tom Horne

A two pole switch is similar in appearance to a "light switch" but it
has four screw terminals rather than two. A common single pole switch
can open and close one conductor, a two pole can control two conductors,
a three pole three conductors and so on. The code does allow you to use
two single pole toggle switches for that purpose but a two pole switch
would be best practice because it permits you to deenergize the entire
garage with one switch rather than two.
--
Tom H

According to HorneTD :

A two pole switch is similar in appearance to a "light switch" but it
has four screw terminals rather than two. A common single pole switch
can open and close one conductor, a two pole can control two conductors,
a three pole three conductors and so on. The code does allow you to use
two single pole toggle switches for that purpose but a two pole switch
would be best practice because it permits you to deenergize the entire
garage with one switch rather than two.

CAREFUL! If the OP walks into a electrical store and buys the first
four screw terminal switch he sees, he'll end up with a 4-way lighting
switch. That would likely dead short the circuit - kaboom!

He needs to make absolutely certain that the switch is described
as two pole. A two pole switch may have more than four terminals
(ie: a DPDT has six, a DP3T has 8 etc), but he only needs four.

Electrical wiring duty units will usually only have four.

[The switch terminology clash between the electrical and electronic
industry is _extremely_ annoying. An ordinary 2-way switch
is SPST (or 1P1T). 3-way is SPDT (aka 1P2T). A regular 4-way isn't
describable that simply. In the electronic trade it'd be described
as, I think, a "2 pole reversing switch".]
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

All understood and much appreciated Tom. I will run it as suggested and not
be concerned about resetting in the garage and also be sure to install the
correct "2-pole" switch as cautioned by Chris in a sub posting. The info
here is always on the money. Again thanks and happy BBQ'ing.
John

"HorneTD"

wrote in message
ink.net...
JohnF wrote:

"HorneTD" wrote in message
hlink.net...

JohnF wrote:

Thanks for the input. So do I understand this then that I simply
install

a

20 amp wall switch at the garage entry point and a panel with 2 pole
breaker? Again thanks.

"HorneTD" wrote in message
arthlink.net...


JohnF wrote:


Sorry I left out key info. The garage is detached and is approx 50'

from the main house panel . It is a 240V line; the wire is #12/3 plus
ground. At the moment only a 120v leg is attached to a 15A receptacle. I
want to use the existing wire that is running from the house to the
garage.

Thanks.


John


"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...



JohnF wrote:

John

If the wire is twelve gage then there is no need for any panel in the
garage. Just change the breaker from a thirty ampere to a double pole
twenty ampere breaker. At the garage you install a switch box that
will
hold a two pole single throw switch. The black wire goes to one pole
of
the switch the red wire to the other pole of the switch with the white
spliced through and the green/bare bonded to the switch strap or yoke.
The switch should be rated for the full twenty amperes but you could
use
two separate single pole switches if you preferred. A single two pole
switch is better practice. The switch will serve as the building
disconnecting means and it must be located very close to were the
wires
enter the building. The circuit that you will then have is called a
multiwire branch circuit. You are allowed to use two single pole
breakers on that circuit but one two pole breaker is better practice
for
residential property. If the circuit will supply a 240 volt load,
such
as a large unit air conditioner, in addition to the 120 volt loads
then
you must use a two pole breaker to protect it and a two pole switch as
the building disconnecting means. That circuit will give you the
equivalent of two twenty ampere 120 volt circuits without running
another wire. The circuit for your work bench receptacle outlets will
be connected between the white and black and the circuit for the
lights
and door opener will be connected between the white and the red. Each
circuit will then have 120 volts with 240 volts between the black and
red. That is what allows the two circuits to share the white neutral.
--
Tom

John
The new two pole, twenty ampere, breaker is installed in the panel at
the house were the circuit to the detached garage originates. You don't
need any new panel in the garage. Just install a switch or switches at
the garage to function as the required building disconnecting means.
--
Tom Horne

Thanks Tom. I am taking 2-pole switch to mean just like a light switch.
Am I
then just running the lines from the new 2-pole switch box to the future
garage door opener and work bench? This is certainly an easy and fast
way
but without breakers in the garage if a line overloads for some reason I
can't reset from the garage which is what I would like to be able to
do.
John

You can have breakers in the garage if you use a small panel at the end
of your twenty ampere feeder but if the overload is caused by the loads
on more than one of the branch circuit breakers in the garage it will
still trip the feeder breaker back in the house panel. With the feeder
having a capacity of twenty amperes installing a sub panel in the garage
is not worth the work involved. If you do install a sub panel you have
to build a Grounding Electrode System for the garage. With only a
single multi-wire branch circuit a grounding electrode system is not
required.

Someone else has suggested that you use an air conditioning disconnect
as the garage building disconnecting means. The problem is that the
building disconnecting means must be "suitable for use as service
equipment" and most air conditioning disconnects are not. The exception
to that rule allows the use of "snap switches", which is the code
language for an ordinary toggle switch, but that exception does not
permit the use of other types of switches or pullouts that are not
"suitable for use as service equipment." The exception is only meant to
permit the use of snap switches for residential outbuildings. If any
more elaborate disconnect is needed then the device used must be listed
by an electrical testing laboratory and marked "suitable for use as
service equipment."
--
Tom H


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