I live in the NE and with the unusual deep freeze this year, I've been
having a heck of a time keeping the water flowing. The first culprit
was some frozen lines that run into the kitchen and the area where
freezing occurs is toward the edge of the house. A small electric space
heater aimed at the area seems to get them dethawed within 24 hours.
The second time was apparently frozen lines in the attic. It still only
affected the kitchen, so I aimed a space heater into the bottom kitchen
cabinet and within a day water was flowing again. This time, I'm more
concerned... no water flowing from any of the faucets. This happened
before, but about 20 years ago when we had a similar long term deep
freeze. I haven't been able to do much about this other than trying to
keep all faucets wide open. The main shut off in the house I have
almost fully closed. Today, finally, with some above freezing temps, I
am starting to see dripping in the kitchen, but that's all so far. When
this happened 20 years ago, I called the water company, and they
couldn't do anything. A neighbor at the time cut up his hose and made a
direct connection to my outdoor hose and got things running again, but
he's long dead. Been no water for two days now. I'm wondering if I
should just keep waiting or ? This is the first day in two weeks that
temps have gone above 32. Should I completely shut off the internal
house valve or leave it open somewhat? What about the main valve out at
the meter? Thanks.

If nothing busted yet i would wait it out. Keep em open until outside gives. The water co will fix their own pipes. Im in pa.

On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 1:57:18 PM UTC-5, JBI wrote:
I live in the NE and with the unusual deep freeze this year, I've been
having a heck of a time keeping the water flowing. The first culprit
was some frozen lines that run into the kitchen and the area where
freezing occurs is toward the edge of the house. A small electric space
heater aimed at the area seems to get them dethawed within 24 hours.
The second time was apparently frozen lines in the attic. It still only
affected the kitchen, so I aimed a space heater into the bottom kitchen
cabinet and within a day water was flowing again. This time, I'm more
concerned... no water flowing from any of the faucets. This happened
before, but about 20 years ago when we had a similar long term deep
freeze. I haven't been able to do much about this other than trying to
keep all faucets wide open. The main shut off in the house I have
almost fully closed. Today, finally, with some above freezing temps, I
am starting to see dripping in the kitchen, but that's all so far. When
this happened 20 years ago, I called the water company, and they
couldn't do anything. A neighbor at the time cut up his hose and made a
direct connection to my outdoor hose and got things running again, but
he's long dead. Been no water for two days now. I'm wondering if I
should just keep waiting or ? This is the first day in two weeks that
temps have gone above 32. Should I completely shut off the internal
house valve or leave it open somewhat? What about the main valve out at
the meter? Thanks.

Leave it running. You want water to move through the frozen spot and melt it. Whether the water that's dripping is coming through the blockage is questionable. It could also be draining from higher points in the house. In the old days of underground steel pipe, you could get welders to hook on to the ends of underground pipe with arc welders and pass current to warm it up.. With poly pipe, that's not an option. Unless you know where it's frozen and can heat it, you'll just have to wait.

On 01/08/2018 02:22 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 1:57:18 PM UTC-5, JBI wrote:
I live in the NE and with the unusual deep freeze this year, I've been
having a heck of a time keeping the water flowing. The first culprit
was some frozen lines that run into the kitchen and the area where
freezing occurs is toward the edge of the house. A small electric space
heater aimed at the area seems to get them dethawed within 24 hours.
The second time was apparently frozen lines in the attic. It still only
affected the kitchen, so I aimed a space heater into the bottom kitchen
cabinet and within a day water was flowing again. This time, I'm more
concerned... no water flowing from any of the faucets. This happened
before, but about 20 years ago when we had a similar long term deep
freeze. I haven't been able to do much about this other than trying to
keep all faucets wide open. The main shut off in the house I have
almost fully closed. Today, finally, with some above freezing temps, I
am starting to see dripping in the kitchen, but that's all so far. When
this happened 20 years ago, I called the water company, and they
couldn't do anything. A neighbor at the time cut up his hose and made a
direct connection to my outdoor hose and got things running again, but
he's long dead. Been no water for two days now. I'm wondering if I
should just keep waiting or ? This is the first day in two weeks that
temps have gone above 32. Should I completely shut off the internal
house valve or leave it open somewhat? What about the main valve out at
the meter? Thanks.

Leave it running. You want water to move through the frozen spot and melt it. Whether the water that's dripping is coming through the blockage is questionable. It could also be draining from higher points in the house. In the old days of underground steel pipe, you could get welders to hook on to the ends of underground pipe with arc welders and pass current to warm it up. With poly pipe, that's not an option. Unless you know where it's frozen and can heat it, you'll just have to wait.


Ok, guys, thanks I'll just wait it out. I did take a peek at the water
meter main area and nothing is frosted over or unusually cold so my
guess is between there and the house or maybe out under the road.

One good thing is that I have been leaving the kitchen faucets dripping
ever since the first kitchen only freeze, so hopefully that helps with
pressure. Now I have all the faucets open along with the main valve.

What puzzles me is why the main does it? Neighbors don't report the
same problem. Ever since I had the drain line replaced with PVC some
years ago have I had the main water line issue during extreme cold.
This was replaced from the entrance to the house out under the roadway
about 20 feet beyond the sidewalk. It runs parallel to the water line,
but some distance from it.

On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 2:38:54 PM UTC-5, JBI wrote:
On 01/08/2018 02:22 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 1:57:18 PM UTC-5, JBI wrote:
I live in the NE and with the unusual deep freeze this year, I've been
having a heck of a time keeping the water flowing. The first culprit
was some frozen lines that run into the kitchen and the area where
freezing occurs is toward the edge of the house. A small electric space
heater aimed at the area seems to get them dethawed within 24 hours.
The second time was apparently frozen lines in the attic. It still only
affected the kitchen, so I aimed a space heater into the bottom kitchen
cabinet and within a day water was flowing again. This time, I'm more
concerned... no water flowing from any of the faucets. This happened
before, but about 20 years ago when we had a similar long term deep
freeze. I haven't been able to do much about this other than trying to
keep all faucets wide open. The main shut off in the house I have
almost fully closed. Today, finally, with some above freezing temps, I
am starting to see dripping in the kitchen, but that's all so far. When
this happened 20 years ago, I called the water company, and they
couldn't do anything. A neighbor at the time cut up his hose and made a
direct connection to my outdoor hose and got things running again, but
he's long dead. Been no water for two days now. I'm wondering if I
should just keep waiting or ? This is the first day in two weeks that
temps have gone above 32. Should I completely shut off the internal
house valve or leave it open somewhat? What about the main valve out at
the meter? Thanks.

Leave it running. You want water to move through the frozen spot and melt it. Whether the water that's dripping is coming through the blockage is questionable. It could also be draining from higher points in the house. In the old days of underground steel pipe, you could get welders to hook on to the ends of underground pipe with arc welders and pass current to warm it up. With poly pipe, that's not an option. Unless you know where it's frozen and can heat it, you'll just have to wait.


Ok, guys, thanks I'll just wait it out. I did take a peek at the water
meter main area and nothing is frosted over or unusually cold so my
guess is between there and the house or maybe out under the road.

Where exactly is the water meter? If it's outside, it's supposed to be
buried 4ft down or below whatever the frost line is there.





One good thing is that I have been leaving the kitchen faucets dripping
ever since the first kitchen only freeze, so hopefully that helps with
pressure. Now I have all the faucets open along with the main valve.

In the future, if you're trying to prevent it from freezing, I would do
a small steady stream, maybe smaller than a pencil, but a lot more than
some dripping. You need to move enough water to keep it above freezing.




What puzzles me is why the main does it? Neighbors don't report the
same problem. Ever since I had the drain line replaced with PVC some
years ago have I had the main water line issue during extreme cold.
This was replaced from the entrance to the house out under the roadway
about 20 feet beyond the sidewalk. It runs parallel to the water line,
but some distance from it.

It may be that whoever installed your line didn't bury it as deep as the
neighbor lines. Soil composition might make some difference too. How does
it come into the house? Through a basement wall?

I've never seen the city's part of the line freeze. Break, sure, from ground movement.

Are you sure it's not part of your house that's frozen? Right where it enters?

also, how does it come in? Basement vs crawl space vs slab on grade makes a lot of difference.

On 1/8/2018 3:40 PM, TimR wrote:
I've never seen the city's part of the line freeze. Break, sure, from ground movement.

Are you sure it's not part of your house that's frozen? Right where it enters?

also, how does it come in? Basement vs crawl space vs slab on grade makes a lot of difference.


Found out years ago that this is busiest time of year for plumbers -
fixing frozen pipes.

Frank posted for all of us...



On 1/8/2018 3:40 PM, TimR wrote:
I've never seen the city's part of the line freeze. Break, sure, from ground movement.

Are you sure it's not part of your house that's frozen? Right where it enters?

also, how does it come in? Basement vs crawl space vs slab on grade makes a lot of difference.


Found out years ago that this is busiest time of year for plumbers -
fixing frozen pipes.

Busy time for firefighters too, responding to water flow alarms. Smells &
bells...

--
Tekkie

On Mon, 8 Jan 2018 12:40:08 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

I've never seen the city's part of the line freeze. Break, sure, from ground movement.


We had a few blocks freeze solid here a few years ago - took till
March to thaw out The frost was down over 6 feet. After these last 3
weekls it woiuldn't surprise me if it happened again - folks in that
area have been instructed to keep a tap running slowly th help
preventthe lines from freezing.

Are you sure it's not part of your house that's frozen? Right where it enters?

also, how does it come in? Basement vs crawl space vs slab on grade makes a lot of difference.

On 01/08/2018 03:40 PM, TimR wrote:
I've never seen the city's part of the line freeze. Break, sure, from ground movement.

Are you sure it's not part of your house that's frozen? Right where it enters?

also, how does it come in? Basement vs crawl space vs slab on grade makes a lot of difference.


I'm not truly sure of anything. I don't have a basement, single
level... simply a house on a concrete slab. No crawlspaces either. The
shut off is located in the bathroom in the center of the house. Wherever
the line enters is at the same depth as the meter I'm sure.

On 01/08/2018 03:47 PM, Frank wrote:
On 1/8/2018 3:40 PM, TimR wrote:
I've never seen the city's part of the line freeze.Â* Break, sure, from
ground movement.

Are you sure it's not part of your house that's frozen?Â* Right where
it enters?

also, how does it come in?Â* Basement vs crawl space vs slab on grade
makes a lot of difference.


Found out years ago that this is busiest time of year for plumbers -
fixing frozen pipes.

Well, when I had them come by the last time it froze nearly 20 years
ago, not only did they charge $200 but did nothing to get things going
saying to wait it out. Naturally, I'm hesitant to contact them again
for no resolve.

On Mon, 8 Jan 2018 15:47:25 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:


Found out years ago that this is busiest time of year for plumbers -
fixing frozen pipes.

Some years ago I had an outside brass bib PRV unit freeze and crack.
~$70 to buy (in the desert, no less). Plumbers were buying the stores
out by the case. It was a real cold winter that year.

No I'm suffering mid 60°F highs. Just got a drizzle of rain after 116
days. Burr

On Mon, 08 Jan 2018 17:22:16 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

n - folks in that
area have been instructed to keep a tap running slowly th help
preventthe lines from freezing.


Long ago, distance times, an uncle had gavl pipe with hose bibs
standing ~ 2 feet high. He would open the pipe to drip overnight.
Just a pile of ice after but no broken lawn pipes.

Down in 'Bama.

Oren posted for all of us...



No I'm suffering mid 60°F highs. Just got a drizzle of rain after 116
days. Burr


I say with no disrespect: STFU

--
Tekkie

On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 16:23:28 -0500, Tekkie® wrote:

Oren posted for all of us...



No I'm suffering mid 60°F highs. Just got a drizzle of rain after 116
days. Burr


I say with no disrespect: STFU

Meh. Today is only ~ 56°F and has been raining since yesterday. Cold.

Tomorrow back to 60°F +.

Suffer
--
Liberals are like Chameleons. They keep changing colors. -- © Oren

On 01/08/2018 07:18 PM, JBI wrote:
On 01/08/2018 03:40 PM, TimR wrote:
I've never seen the city's part of the line freeze.Â* Break, sure, from
ground movement.

Are you sure it's not part of your house that's frozen?Â* Right where
it enters?

also, how does it come in?Â* Basement vs crawl space vs slab on grade
makes a lot of difference.


I'm not truly sure of anything.Â* I don't have a basement, single
level... simply a house on a concrete slab.Â* No crawlspaces either.Â* The
shut off is located in the bathroom in the center of the house. Wherever
the line enters is at the same depth as the meter I'm sure.

Still frozen as of today. Although temps are now reaching mid 40's
during daytime, the ground is still frozen. I'm beginning to wonder how
long the frozen line will persist. Is there any way I could hasten it
along? A quick thought is boiling several gal of water and then quickly
pouring it above the ground where the line runs. It's about a 20'
section between the house and through the yard. I doubt this would
work, but just an idea. Thoughts?

On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 14:46:54 -0500, JBI wrote:

On 01/08/2018 07:18 PM, JBI wrote:
On 01/08/2018 03:40 PM, TimR wrote:
I've never seen the city's part of the line freeze.* Break, sure, from
ground movement.

Are you sure it's not part of your house that's frozen?* Right where
it enters?

also, how does it come in?* Basement vs crawl space vs slab on grade
makes a lot of difference.


I'm not truly sure of anything.* I don't have a basement, single
level... simply a house on a concrete slab.* No crawlspaces either.* The
shut off is located in the bathroom in the center of the house. Wherever
the line enters is at the same depth as the meter I'm sure.

Still frozen as of today. Although temps are now reaching mid 40's
during daytime, the ground is still frozen. I'm beginning to wonder how
long the frozen line will persist. Is there any way I could hasten it
along? A quick thought is boiling several gal of water and then quickly
pouring it above the ground where the line runs. It's about a 20'
section between the house and through the yard. I doubt this would
work, but just an idea. Thoughts?

I have a frozen pipe going to my barn. It's not frozen above the ground.
I have had a heater on it all the time. Its frozen below the ground. I
have put a propane torch on it and nothing is helping. The temperature
here has been close to 40 deg (F) for a few days now. I dont see any
quick fix. I'll probably just wait till Spring. I once had farm animals
in that barn, but I no longer have them, except for a few small ones
that dont need large amounts of water. I have since just been running
120ft of garden hose from my house, twice a week, to give them water, or
carrying a dozen 5gal pails of water twice a week to them. (the hose is
easier).

Pouring boiling water on the ground wont do much, but you could try
building a charcoal fire on top of the ground, like the cities do to
thaw streets and other soil when they need to dig up pipes and stuff. I
think they use coal though, not charcoal.

(Of course you can only get so close to buildings with that coal).

I noticed the cities cover that coal with cut in half steel drums (cut
the long way), to direct the heat downward.

Good luck!

Well, after 5 days, the water line must have thawed today as pressure
returned to normal in all faucets this afternoon. I feel fortunate to
have had three 55+ F degree days in a row which I'm sure helped speed up
thawing after the several weeks of below freezing temps.

There is no question that this is the main line. The question is, how
do I prevent this from happening again? It's only froze like this one
other time, as I mentioned in my prior post, nearly 20 years ago with
similar very cold temps. It never froze before that and only did it
then right after the sewer line was replaced with PVC. We have always
thought that something was done that disturbed the water line somehow
because it never froze before that. There are two sewer access ports,
one close to the house and the other not far from the water meter near
the road and I'm wondering if either access runs too close to the water
line and promotes freezing.

Anyway, water is very expensive here. City water and it runs me about
$900/ year for the minimal amount used. Over past winters, I've usually
run the tap at a trickle throughout the night, but this time that didn't
work (although I wasn't running a trickle this time, only fast
dripping). With water costs what they are here, I don't like to do that
if a better solution is available. Throughout this ordeal, I've been
searching for possible solutions. Other than the standard and expensive
digging up routine, I also came across what looked like modified welders
used to heat the problem section of pipe until thawed but the units
themselves are well over $1K. Another option I came across was to lay
down straw or hay over the 15x3 foot area causing the trouble, and then
a tarp over the hay. I guess the idea is that the straw/ hay acts like
insulation, keeping the soil warmer.

If anyone has ideas that aren't costly, I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Hopefully, no more extended below freezing weather this season, but I
want to be more prepared this time around just in case. thanks in
advance.

On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 11:50:01 PM UTC-5, JBI wrote:
Well, after 5 days, the water line must have thawed today as pressure
returned to normal in all faucets this afternoon. I feel fortunate to
have had three 55+ F degree days in a row which I'm sure helped speed up
thawing after the several weeks of below freezing temps.

There is no question that this is the main line. The question is, how
do I prevent this from happening again? It's only froze like this one
other time, as I mentioned in my prior post, nearly 20 years ago with
similar very cold temps. It never froze before that and only did it
then right after the sewer line was replaced with PVC. We have always
thought that something was done that disturbed the water line somehow
because it never froze before that. There are two sewer access ports,
one close to the house and the other not far from the water meter near
the road and I'm wondering if either access runs too close to the water
line and promotes freezing.

Anyway, water is very expensive here. City water and it runs me about
$900/ year for the minimal amount used. Over past winters, I've usually
run the tap at a trickle throughout the night, but this time that didn't
work (although I wasn't running a trickle this time, only fast
dripping). With water costs what they are here, I don't like to do that
if a better solution is available. Throughout this ordeal, I've been
searching for possible solutions. Other than the standard and expensive
digging up routine, I also came across what looked like modified welders
used to heat the problem section of pipe until thawed but the units
themselves are well over $1K. Another option I came across was to lay
down straw or hay over the 15x3 foot area causing the trouble, and then
a tarp over the hay. I guess the idea is that the straw/ hay acts like
insulation, keeping the soil warmer.

If anyone has ideas that aren't costly, I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Hopefully, no more extended below freezing weather this season, but I
want to be more prepared this time around just in case. thanks in
advance.

Figure out what the actual cost of running a small stream of water is. I'll bet it's just a few bucks, if that. You only need to run it when no water will be drawn for a couple hours or more. Should be cheap.

On 1/12/18 10:49 PM, JBI wrote:
Well, after 5 days, the water line must have thawed today as pressure
returned to normal in all faucets this afternoon.Â* I feel fortunate to
have had three 55+ F degree days in a row which I'm sure helped speed up
thawing after the several weeks of below freezing temps.

There is no question that this is the main line.Â* The question is, how
do I prevent this from happening again?Â* It's only froze like this one
other time, as I mentioned in my prior post, nearly 20 years ago with
similar very cold temps.Â* It never froze before that and only did it
then right after the sewer line was replaced with PVC.Â* We have always
thought that something was done that disturbed the water line somehow
because it never froze before that.Â* There are two sewer access ports,
one close to the house and the other not far from the water meter near
the road and I'm wondering if either access runs too close to the water
line and promotes freezing.

Anyway, water is very expensive here.Â* City water and it runs me about
$900/ year for the minimal amount used.Â* Over past winters, I've usually
run the tap at a trickle throughout the night, but this time that didn't
work (although I wasn't running a trickle this time, only fast
dripping).Â* With water costs what they are here, I don't like to do that
if a better solution is available.Â* Throughout this ordeal, I've been
searching for possible solutions.Â* Other than the standard and expensive
digging up routine, I also came across what looked like modified welders
used to heat the problem section of pipe until thawed but the units
themselves are well over $1K.Â* Another option I came across was to lay
down straw or hay over the 15x3 foot area causing the trouble, and then
a tarp over the hay.Â* I guess the idea is that the straw/ hay acts like
insulation, keeping the soil warmer.

If anyone has ideas that aren't costly, I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Hopefully, no more extended below freezing weather this season, but I
want to be more prepared this time around just in case.Â* thanks in advance.

There are things like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Craft-Styrofoam-Foam-Sheets-sheets/dp/B0072IPXDW?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag =duckduckgo-osx-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creative ASIN=B0072IPXDW

or http://alturl.com/xb7eq

Lumber yards would have it.

On 01/08/2018 01:57 PM, JBI wrote:
The first culprit was some frozen lines that run into the kitchen and the area where freezing occurs is toward the edge of the house.Â* A small electric space heater aimed at the area seems to get them dethawed within 24 hours. The second time was
apparently frozen lines in the attic.Â* It still only affected the kitchen, so I aimed a space heater into the bottom kitchen cabinet and within a day water was flowing again.

OMG! If you live where temps go below freezing for extended periods, water lines should never be run through exterior walls or an attic.

On 01/22/2018 04:49 AM, R Bob wrote:
On 01/08/2018 01:57 PM, JBI wrote:
The first culprit was some frozen lines that run into the kitchen and
the area where freezing occurs is toward the edge of the house.Â* A
small electric space heater aimed at the area seems to get them
dethawed within 24 hours. The second time was apparently frozen lines
in the attic.Â* It still only affected the kitchen, so I aimed a space
heater into the bottom kitchen cabinet and within a day water was
flowing again.

OMG! If you live where temps go below freezing for extended periods,
water lines should never be run through exterior walls or an attic.


Unfortunately, they do. Where I live normally doesn't remain below
freezing all day for more than several days during the winter. However,
this year, like 2003, was an exception with about two solid weeks of
below freezing weather.

I was fortunate that temps reached into the 60's just after the deep
freeze and water flow was restored. Even though the main line froze, I
had been leaving water dripping throughout the freeze, so I credit that
to not having burst or damaged pipes once flow was restored. My
neighbor wasn't so lucky. He never left anything dripping/ trickling
and ended up with a burst line in the kitchen. The township here also
ended up with a burst line under city streets. So, definitely not a
good "pipe friendly" winter so far. I just hope it's over. Usually,
when we get these freak cold periods, once they've had their couple of
weeks, they're done for the season and I just hope that's the case this
time.

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:29:32 AM UTC-5, JBI wrote:

and ended up with a burst line in the kitchen. The township here also
ended up with a burst line under city streets. So, definitely not a
good "pipe friendly" winter so far. I just hope it's over. Usually,
when we get these freak cold periods, once they've had their couple of
weeks, they're done for the season and I just hope that's the case this
time.

Pipes break underground even though they might not have frozen. Extreme temperatures hot or cold are enough to cause ground movement.

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 4:49:41 AM UTC-5, R Bob wrote:
On 01/08/2018 01:57 PM, JBI wrote:
The first culprit was some frozen lines that run into the kitchen and the area where freezing occurs is toward the edge of the house.Â* A small electric space heater aimed at the area seems to get them dethawed within 24 hours. The second time was
apparently frozen lines in the attic.Â* It still only affected the kitchen, so I aimed a space heater into the bottom kitchen cabinet and within a day water was flowing again.

OMG! If you live where temps go below freezing for extended periods, water lines should never be run through exterior walls or an attic.

Water lines are run through exterior walls here in NJ in most houses.
It frequently gets in the single digits a few times a winter. I've never
had the pipes freeze. I have both the kitchen and master bath sinks
routed through outside walls on opposite ends of the house. It was
below 32F for two weeks, in the single digits many times, the coldest
night was -2F. No freezing. A big part of it is if the insulation is
put in properly, the pipes on the warm side and that there are no holes
where wind can blow in and that the house is heated to a reasonable
temperature. For sure routing the pipes without using an outside wall
eliminates the chance, but just saying there are a lot of houses with
pipes in outside walls in places that get pretty cold without problems.

If I'm leaving the house set way back for a trip, etc, then I leave the
cabinet doors open under the sinks so that more warmth gets in.