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#41
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 08:07:42 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote: So, when was the next flight that they could have put this passenger on? 2 PM the next day. |
#42
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
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#43
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
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#44
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
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#45
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
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#46
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 08:18:51 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote: Does their own convenience include getting flight crews to where they are needed for a flight? That apparently is what happened here. The airline's failure to plan does not constitute an emergency for me. I agree, fighting the cops was stupid but I would have made it clear, there was someone else who would negotiate a better deal for them than me. You do that with the gate agent, not the flight crew. My usual settlement for a missed flight (their fault) is a nice hotel room, a food voucher (dinner and breakfast) and 30,000-40,000 points. The last time this happened to me in DTW, Delta picked up our room in the Westin, right there on Concourse A, food and I got a voucher to buy clothes since they will not give you your checked bags. I did have a First Class ticket tho. |
#47
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/11/2017 10:50 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says... I would agree, assuming they knew they had these 4 employees all along. It's possible that only came up after people had boarded. Once this guy claimed he was a doctor and started bitching, they should have asked to see his license and if he showed it, then selected another random person. That seems like a reasonable thing that could have avoided this mess. If that doctor was all that important, he should have scheduled a flight a few days sooner. Unless he was some kind of very special doctor on an emergency call, which would be doubtful. It's rather clear that you, Ralph, have little understanding of overbooking. Your comment that he should have planned ahead is just ignorant. He DID plan ahead. He booked and was seated on a flight that would get him to Louisville when he needed to be. The airline did not do the same with their crew members. Whose planning was **** poor? I don't care what class ticket you purchase. Fail to give notice that you will not board that flight and try and get a refund. Ain't gonna happen. If you DO give sufficient notice, you may get the refund AND the airline then knows they have an extra seat. If they overbook, they are betting that X% will be no shows or reschedule, they will keep the money (or a large percentage of it) from that fare and still collect another fare for the same seat. It's just like any other form of gambling and the odds are stacked in favor of the house. Follow along on this little screw up by United. In the end, I suspect that the only question that will be answered is how many zeroes will be added to the check that United/Republic Airlines and the City of Chicago will write. Chicago Department of Aviation has already suspended their officer and acknowledged that he violated procedure by the manner in which he acted. |
#48
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/11/2017 12:32 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 4/11/2017 10:50 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... I would agree, assuming they knew they had these 4 employees all along. It's possible that only came up after people had boarded. Once this guy claimed he was a doctor and started bitching, they should have asked to see his license and if he showed it, then selected another random person. That seems like a reasonable thing that could have avoided this mess. If that doctor was all that important, he should have scheduled a flight a few days sooner. Unless he was some kind of very special doctor on an emergency call, which would be doubtful. It's rather clear that you, Ralph, have little understanding of overbooking. Your comment that he should have planned ahead is just ignorant. He DID plan ahead. He booked and was seated on a flight that would get him to Louisville when he needed to be. The airline did not do the same with their crew members. Whose planning was **** poor? I don't care what class ticket you purchase. Fail to give notice that you will not board that flight and try and get a refund. Ain't gonna happen. If you DO give sufficient notice, you may get the refund AND the airline then knows they have an extra seat. If they overbook, they are betting that X% will be no shows or reschedule, they will keep the money (or a large percentage of it) from that fare and still collect another fare for the same seat. It's just like any other form of gambling and the odds are stacked in favor of the house. Follow along on this little screw up by United. In the end, I suspect that the only question that will be answered is how many zeroes will be added to the check that United/Republic Airlines and the City of Chicago will write. Chicago Department of Aviation has already suspended their officer and acknowledged that he violated procedure by the manner in which he acted. The guy is coming across as a dirt bag but if he was or not to get bumped to accommodate airline employees that were not pre-ticketed does not look good for the airline. |
#49
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/11/2017 10:10 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 4/11/2017 6:20 AM, Frank wrote: On 4/11/2017 12:35 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote: On 4/10/2017 9:23 PM, Oren wrote: On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 21:15:07 -0700, Taxed and Spent wrote: If it was overbooked, there should have been four people standing up looking for a seat. Musical Chairs rules should apply. Airlines overbook every day. It ****es people off. People don't show up for flights, so airlines overbook. They play the statistics game and sometimes there are loosers. Just like in Musical Chairs. I heard it was not overbooked but the airline wanted seats for its own employees to get to their jobs. Story still developing so we will see how it ends. Guy said he was important Dr. but who knows if he is telling the truth. If airline did do it for their own convenience it will cost them a bundle. If that flight crew was needed to keep the schedules rolling, I am not sure it was just "for their convenience". But, nobody should have been boarded that might need to get bumped voluntarily or not. Do that before the jetway. If that were the case, why did they oversell the flight? Are they so disorganized that they cannot foresee these things? |
#50
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane - TWICE!
On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 08:41:06 -0700, Taxed and Spent
wrote: On 4/10/2017 6:38 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote: One snowflake, squealing like a pig, as he is dragged from the plane as other snowflakes sit by and scream "Oh my God"! That had to be a flight either to or from California. Maybe the police should have taken the guy who kept saying "I have to go home" with them too. http://video.foxnews.com/v/539284773...#sp=show-clips "A short time after officials got him off the plane, he returned to the cabin and ran to the back, holding onto an object and pled to let him go home." Great security. The cops used force, the man was bleeding. Was he arrested, was he given medical attention, and how did he get back on the plane? Keystone cops.... |
#51
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 11:46:11 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says... about a million dollars from the airline for over booking. The over booking should be stopped,and if you get a ticket you should pay for it even if you can not make the flight. Are you willing to pay the price increase for tickets if they stop overbooking? That's what will happen. They overbook based on experience for that flight, so that they wind up with a plane as full as possible. If they book to passengers scheduled, most planes will have more empty seats and customers wind up paying for it. Plus we have the environental waste of fuel. I may not understand the over booking. However if someone wants a ticket on a plane and does not show up, isn't true he does not pay for the ticket ? Depends on the airline and the ticket. If it's some deep discount carrier, then you may wind up paying for it, with no refund and no ability to use it in the future. If it's a major carrier like AA, UAL, etc, then usually you can either use it for the same destination at another time or towards another ticket, usually with some re-booking/change charge. If that is the case, then the airplane looses the money for that seat if not filled by over booking. Exactly, and that's why they over book. If the people were forced to pay for the ticket even if they do not make the flight , then the seat is paid for even if it is empty. Wouldn't that be a way for the plane to make the same ammount of money ? Yes, but then a lot of customers wouldn't like that either. |
#52
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane - TWICE!
On 4/11/2017 11:41 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 4/10/2017 6:38 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote: One snowflake, squealing like a pig, as he is dragged from the plane as other snowflakes sit by and scream "Oh my God"! That had to be a flight either to or from California. Maybe the police should have taken the guy who kept saying "I have to go home" with them too. http://video.foxnews.com/v/539284773...#sp=show-clips "A short time after officials got him off the plane, he returned to the cabin and ran to the back, holding onto an object and pled to let him go home." Obviously the guy is not an individual with sterling character but the airline brought it on themselves and no question the airline will suffer for it. |
#53
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 12:32:59 PM UTC-4, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 4/11/2017 10:50 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... I would agree, assuming they knew they had these 4 employees all along. It's possible that only came up after people had boarded. Once this guy claimed he was a doctor and started bitching, they should have asked to see his license and if he showed it, then selected another random person. That seems like a reasonable thing that could have avoided this mess. If that doctor was all that important, he should have scheduled a flight a few days sooner. Unless he was some kind of very special doctor on an emergency call, which would be doubtful. It's rather clear that you, Ralph, have little understanding of overbooking. Your comment that he should have planned ahead is just ignorant. He DID plan ahead. He booked and was seated on a flight that would get him to Louisville when he needed to be. The airline did not do the same with their crew members. Whose planning was **** poor? I don't think Ralph is too far off. If you really, really have to be somewhere, then you don't plan on taking the last flight available the day before you need to be there. For example, if you live in NYC and are taking a cruise that leaves from LA, it's not a good idea to take the last flight that will get you to the dock on time. Airlines have to cancel flights occasionally due to weather, equipment problems, crew problems, etc. As for the airline with their crew members, we don't know the full story. When did UAL know they had to put them on this flight? Many times these things change dynamically. A flight crew that was supposed to fly out of city A can't get there because their equipment is out of service and can't fly at the last minute. Then the airline has to scramble to find a crew that can get there to fly the plane out of city A. I don't care what class ticket you purchase. Fail to give notice that you will not board that flight and try and get a refund. Ain't gonna happen. Obviously you don't fly much, because otherwise you'd know that this happens all the time. Some tickets are fully refundable. Less expensive tickets may not be, but the vast majority of those on the majors, eg UAL, are usable for another flight, typically with a change fee. If you DO give sufficient notice, you may get the refund AND the airline then knows they have an extra seat. If they overbook, they are betting that X% will be no shows or reschedule, they will keep the money (or a large percentage of it) from that fare and still collect another fare for the same seat. It's just like any other form of gambling and the odds are stacked in favor of the house. Follow along on this little screw up by United. In the end, I suspect that the only question that will be answered is how many zeroes will be added to the check that United/Republic Airlines and the City of Chicago will write. Chicago Department of Aviation has already suspended their officer and acknowledged that he violated procedure by the manner in which he acted. I suppose we should have just had a hippie group therapy session there on the tarmac with the passenger who won't obey the lawful commands of the flight crew and those of the police? I've seen quite a few of these in the news and have yet to see one where a passenger disobeyed the flight crew and police and won. This was just another self-centered jerk passenger, who didn't care if he wound up with the whole flight cancelled. |
#54
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 12:44:31 PM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
On 4/11/2017 10:10 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote: On 4/11/2017 6:20 AM, Frank wrote: On 4/11/2017 12:35 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote: On 4/10/2017 9:23 PM, Oren wrote: On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 21:15:07 -0700, Taxed and Spent wrote: If it was overbooked, there should have been four people standing up looking for a seat. Musical Chairs rules should apply. Airlines overbook every day. It ****es people off. People don't show up for flights, so airlines overbook. They play the statistics game and sometimes there are loosers. Just like in Musical Chairs. I heard it was not overbooked but the airline wanted seats for its own employees to get to their jobs. Story still developing so we will see how it ends. Guy said he was important Dr. but who knows if he is telling the truth. If airline did do it for their own convenience it will cost them a bundle. If that flight crew was needed to keep the schedules rolling, I am not sure it was just "for their convenience". But, nobody should have been boarded that might need to get bumped voluntarily or not. Do that before the jetway. If that were the case, why did they oversell the flight? Are they so disorganized that they cannot foresee these things? Can you foresee that a plane coming from Atlanta to Detroit isn't going to arrive because it had a maintenance issue and didn't leave? Or that it had an inflight problem and had to divert? Now you have a plane in Detroit scheduled for Miami with no crew. Hence, you need to find a crew somewhere that can be flown there in time. It's not unusual. |
#55
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 11:55:25 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 08:18:51 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote: Does their own convenience include getting flight crews to where they are needed for a flight? That apparently is what happened here. The airline's failure to plan does not constitute an emergency for me. How do you know it was a failure to plan? If a plane that was supposed to arrive in some city doesn't get there because of a problem with the equipment or they had to make an emergency landing because of some other asshole passenger, then they may have no flight crew in that city for a plane that needs to leave later in the day. In that case, they have to get one that's available from somewhere. I agree, fighting the cops was stupid but I would have made it clear, there was someone else who would negotiate a better deal for them than me. You do that with the gate agent, not the flight crew. I agree. My usual settlement for a missed flight (their fault) is a nice hotel room, a food voucher (dinner and breakfast) and 30,000-40,000 points. The last time this happened to me in DTW, Delta picked up our room in the Westin, right there on Concourse A, food and I got a voucher to buy clothes since they will not give you your checked bags. I did have a First Class ticket tho. And that sure helps |
#56
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 10:02:41 AM UTC-4, Kurt V. Ullman wrote:
On 4/11/17 9:10 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 4/11/2017 12:23 AM, Oren wrote: On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 21:15:07 -0700, Taxed and Spent wrote: If it was overbooked, there should have been four people standing up looking for a seat. Musical Chairs rules should apply. Airlines overbook every day. It ****es people off. Often there are no-shows so I can understand it. I've been bumped but was well compensated for it and it made little difference in my life. Arriving a couple of hours later in first class and getting free tickets is not so bad. In this case though, the guy was already seated on the plane. Poor planning on the airline. The problem with that is for the most part the no-shows have already paid and any more it is non-refunable. So they are double dipping if they overbook. Non-refundable not usable. Yes, some tickets you have no recourse. But most tickets on the majors are re-usable, usually with a change fee, depending on whether it's a full fare ticket or a deep discount one. |
#58
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 11:32:51 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote: Chicago Department of Aviation has already suspended their officer and acknowledged that he violated procedure by the manner in which he acted. http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Officer-on-Leave-After-Video-Showed-Man-Being-Dragged-Off-Overbooked-United-Airlines-Flight-419064814.html So the flight was delayed. Wonder if the 4 member crew made it to their flight in Louisville on time. "Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky called on United Airlines to "immediately change their policy and give full restitution and compensation to the victim." "This use of excessive force is absolutely unacceptable," Schakowsky said in a statement Monday afternoon. "The response from United Airlines has been brazenly inadequate – their apology over having to ‘re-accommodate’ passengers is completely insulting, and their attempt to pass the buck by blaming the Chicago Police Department for the incident demonstrates that they do not understand the gravity of this incident." IMO the officer over calculated his used of force. Failed to provide medical attention and allowed the passenger back on the plane. He screwed the pooch. |
#59
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/11/2017 1:17 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says... On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 12:32:59 PM UTC-4, Unquestionably Confused wrote: On 4/11/2017 10:50 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... I would agree, assuming they knew they had these 4 employees all along. It's possible that only came up after people had boarded. Once this guy claimed he was a doctor and started bitching, they should have asked to see his license and if he showed it, then selected another random person. That seems like a reasonable thing that could have avoided this mess. If that doctor was all that important, he should have scheduled a flight a few days sooner. Unless he was some kind of very special doctor on an emergency call, which would be doubtful. It's rather clear that you, Ralph, have little understanding of overbooking. Your comment that he should have planned ahead is just ignorant. He DID plan ahead. He booked and was seated on a flight that would get him to Louisville when he needed to be. The airline did not do the same with their crew members. Whose planning was **** poor? I don't think Ralph is too far off. If you really, really have to be somewhere, then you don't plan on taking the last flight available the day before you need to be there. For example, if you live in NYC and are taking a cruise that leaves from LA, it's not a good idea to take the last flight that will get you to the dock on time. Airlines have to cancel flights occasionally due to weather, equipment problems, crew problems, etc. That was sort of my thinking. Airplanes often get delayed for various reasons not under control. The weather could be bad, or for some reason the airplane could have mechanical problems, or even a bomb threat. How many days was it that all planes were grounded after 9/11 ? If someone absolutly has to be at a place, they should be set up atleast a day or two sooner. As far as the planning on the airlines part, there could have been crew problems at the other airport. Maybe the crew had a wreck or some medical problems or family problems. I worked at a plant that needed to run 24/7 as to shut it down, especially under under controlled conditions would have cost over a million dollars. We don't usually get much snow in NC, but one day we got 12 inches. Very few could get into work or out of the plant (around 400 or more people on a normal shift change each way). The ones there stayed over and worked to keep the place running. That goes to show things hapen that no one can predict. Saw this at company I worked for. Could have been the same one. Just got through listening to some supercilious United Airline pilot calling Limbaugh and saying that it is a privilege to fly and there are rules that must be followed and the airline obeyed them. He implied that travelers should also know them and abide by them. Whatever the excuse the airline was working to maximize its profits to avoid downtime. Retired, I seldom fly anymore but did a bit when I was working and inconvenienced many times by what was an airline mistake. With the security problem, I would hate to fly today. A marketing manager I know says he spends all his days in airports. Very frustrating for travelers. |
#60
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
Andy wrote:
They should have upped the offer to $2000. Or to whatever price necessary to induce four ticketed passengers to give up their seats. Most Americans are fair weather free marketeers: they're all in favor of "capitalism" when it works in their favor, but they'll resort to coercion when they can get away with it. |
#61
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
Ralph Mowery wrote:
If that doctor was all that important, he should have scheduled a flight a few days sooner. So passengers should waste their time because United Airlines doesn't plan ahead? |
#62
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 10:07:51 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, April 10, 2017 at 9:50:32 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 4/10/2017 9:38 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote: One snowflake, squealing like a pig, as he is dragged from the plane as other snowflakes sit by and scream "Oh my God"! That had to be a flight either to or from California. Maybe the police should have taken the guy who kept saying "I have to go home" with them too. http://video.foxnews.com/v/539284773...#sp=show-clips They kicked him (and 3 others) off to make room for a Delta employee. That seems unfair to me as they were already boarded. . Apparently they needed 4 seats for Delta employees who were crew on their way to where they were needed for a flight. I don't see that as unfair. Airlines routinely overbook flights and it's not often that they wind up with too few seats. If they made a mistake, it was in letting people on the plane before they were sure they had enough seats. But then IDK when they first learned that they had these 4 extra employees, could have been at the last minute. I agree with Gordon on this one. The media is just going wild on this one, saying the whole country is outraged at United. Well, I'm outraged too, but not at United. I'm fed up with idiots like this that make a spectacle, force planes to make an emergency landing because they have to pay $12 for a blanket and stunts like this. The dishonest media isn't even reporting the most basic facts. This was Chicago, not some little airport with no flights. So, when was the next flight that they could have put this passenger on? I bet they could have gotten him to his destination in just a few more hours. And this clown is a doctor? I wouldn't want him as my doctor with that kind of judgment and behavior. Also, on talk radio this morning, apparently the truth is starting to come out. I heard talk that the doctor's license had been suspended for drug offenses, including trading drugs for sex. IDK if it's true, but that's what's being reported some places now. The doctor paid for his seat. Did the 4 Delta employees pay for their seat. Not they did not !! I cheer for the doctor who stood up for his rights. There is a good saying. "Your bad planning does not become my emergency." Andy |
#63
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 10:02:34 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote: On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 11:55:25 AM UTC-4, wrote: On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 08:18:51 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote: Does their own convenience include getting flight crews to where they are needed for a flight? That apparently is what happened here. The airline's failure to plan does not constitute an emergency for me. How do you know it was a failure to plan? If a plane that was supposed to arrive in some city doesn't get there because of a problem with the equipment or they had to make an emergency landing because of some other asshole passenger, then they may have no flight crew in that city for a plane that needs to leave later in the day. In that case, they have to get one that's available from somewhere. That happens often enough that they should have a better plan, |
#64
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 10:03:58 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote: On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 10:02:41 AM UTC-4, Kurt V. Ullman wrote: On 4/11/17 9:10 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 4/11/2017 12:23 AM, Oren wrote: On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 21:15:07 -0700, Taxed and Spent wrote: If it was overbooked, there should have been four people standing up looking for a seat. Musical Chairs rules should apply. Airlines overbook every day. It ****es people off. Often there are no-shows so I can understand it. I've been bumped but was well compensated for it and it made little difference in my life. Arriving a couple of hours later in first class and getting free tickets is not so bad. In this case though, the guy was already seated on the plane. Poor planning on the airline. The problem with that is for the most part the no-shows have already paid and any more it is non-refunable. So they are double dipping if they overbook. Non-refundable not usable. Yes, some tickets you have no recourse. But most tickets on the majors are re-usable, usually with a change fee, depending on whether it's a full fare ticket or a deep discount one. That change fee is $100, at least with every airline I have been on and that is a full fare first class ticket. You need to pay an additional fee in advance if you want a flex ticket. |
#65
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/11/2017 11:23 AM, trader_4 wrote:
I would agree, assuming they knew they had these 4 employees all along. It's possible that only came up after people had boarded. Once this guy claimed he was a doctor and started bitching, they should have asked to see his license and if he showed it, then selected another random person. That seems like a reasonable thing that could have avoided this mess. If they did not know until the passengers were seated, they are dumber than I thought. It is still poor planning on the part of the airline and someone should be punished |
#66
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 12:44:23 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:
On 4/11/2017 10:10 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote: On 4/11/2017 6:20 AM, Frank wrote: On 4/11/2017 12:35 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote: On 4/10/2017 9:23 PM, Oren wrote: On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 21:15:07 -0700, Taxed and Spent wrote: If it was overbooked, there should have been four people standing up looking for a seat. Musical Chairs rules should apply. Airlines overbook every day. It ****es people off. People don't show up for flights, so airlines overbook. They play the statistics game and sometimes there are loosers. Just like in Musical Chairs. I heard it was not overbooked but the airline wanted seats for its own employees to get to their jobs. Story still developing so we will see how it ends. Guy said he was important Dr. but who knows if he is telling the truth. If airline did do it for their own convenience it will cost them a bundle. If that flight crew was needed to keep the schedules rolling, I am not sure it was just "for their convenience". But, nobody should have been boarded that might need to get bumped voluntarily or not. Do that before the jetway. If that were the case, why did they oversell the flight? Are they so disorganized that they cannot foresee these things? Short answer? Yes. They ROUTINELY overbook these flights, counting on some passengers not showing up. Then when they need to move crew members at the last minute the brown stuff hits the fan. Sounds like the flight crew movement was last minute - possibly THEY had been bumped from a previous flight (which happens more often than you'd believe). They bounce the crew to accomodate passengers, counting on a light load on a following flight - then end up with it overbooked too. Then they don't offer enough incentive for someone to figure it's worth while taking a later flight. Offer to put them up at a classt hotel and give them tickets to a baseball game or something, and a guaranteed morning flight, and they'd have to fight off the volunteers. |
#67
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/11/2017 11:50 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
If that doctor was all that important, he should have scheduled a flight a few days sooner. Unless he was some kind of very special doctor on an emergency call, which would be doubtful. Given the reliability of air travel at any time, I'd agree. Same with people that have to meet a cruise ship that is not going to wait for you. As should the airline schedule their crew better, not to have to pull people out of their seats. |
#68
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 13:17:55 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote: In article , says... On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 12:32:59 PM UTC-4, Unquestionably Confused wrote: On 4/11/2017 10:50 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... I would agree, assuming they knew they had these 4 employees all along. It's possible that only came up after people had boarded. Once this guy claimed he was a doctor and started bitching, they should have asked to see his license and if he showed it, then selected another random person. That seems like a reasonable thing that could have avoided this mess. If that doctor was all that important, he should have scheduled a flight a few days sooner. Unless he was some kind of very special doctor on an emergency call, which would be doubtful. It's rather clear that you, Ralph, have little understanding of overbooking. Your comment that he should have planned ahead is just ignorant. He DID plan ahead. He booked and was seated on a flight that would get him to Louisville when he needed to be. The airline did not do the same with their crew members. Whose planning was **** poor? I don't think Ralph is too far off. If you really, really have to be somewhere, then you don't plan on taking the last flight available the day before you need to be there. For example, if you live in NYC and are taking a cruise that leaves from LA, it's not a good idea to take the last flight that will get you to the dock on time. Airlines have to cancel flights occasionally due to weather, equipment problems, crew problems, etc. That was sort of my thinking. Airplanes often get delayed for various reasons not under control. The weather could be bad, or for some reason the airplane could have mechanical problems, or even a bomb threat. How many days was it that all planes were grounded after 9/11 ? If someone absolutly has to be at a place, they should be set up atleast a day or two sooner. As far as the planning on the airlines part, there could have been crew problems at the other airport. Maybe the crew had a wreck or some medical problems or family problems. I worked at a plant that needed to run 24/7 as to shut it down, especially under under controlled conditions would have cost over a million dollars. We don't usually get much snow in NC, but one day we got 12 inches. Very few could get into work or out of the plant (around 400 or more people on a normal shift change each way). The ones there stayed over and worked to keep the place running. That goes to show things hapen that no one can predict. Sometimes, particularly on commuter flights, someone HAS to book a flight last minute so you really can't blame the "doctor". They cannot book a day off in between - both directions. As for cancelled flights, a friend was in New Youk 9-11 and needed to get home. He managed to find a rental car, and SEVEN people got home to Toronto that night. I've heard of it being done several times. Californis to Tennesee is a bit different though - - - although some people DID drive home from Florida in rental cars instead of flying- - |
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/11/2017 1:08 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 13:17:55 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 12:32:59 PM UTC-4, Unquestionably Confused wrote: On 4/11/2017 10:50 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... I would agree, assuming they knew they had these 4 employees all along. It's possible that only came up after people had boarded. Once this guy claimed he was a doctor and started bitching, they should have asked to see his license and if he showed it, then selected another random person. That seems like a reasonable thing that could have avoided this mess. If that doctor was all that important, he should have scheduled a flight a few days sooner. Unless he was some kind of very special doctor on an emergency call, which would be doubtful. It's rather clear that you, Ralph, have little understanding of overbooking. Your comment that he should have planned ahead is just ignorant. He DID plan ahead. He booked and was seated on a flight that would get him to Louisville when he needed to be. The airline did not do the same with their crew members. Whose planning was **** poor? I don't think Ralph is too far off. If you really, really have to be somewhere, then you don't plan on taking the last flight available the day before you need to be there. For example, if you live in NYC and are taking a cruise that leaves from LA, it's not a good idea to take the last flight that will get you to the dock on time. Airlines have to cancel flights occasionally due to weather, equipment problems, crew problems, etc. That was sort of my thinking. Airplanes often get delayed for various reasons not under control. The weather could be bad, or for some reason the airplane could have mechanical problems, or even a bomb threat. How many days was it that all planes were grounded after 9/11 ? If someone absolutly has to be at a place, they should be set up atleast a day or two sooner. As far as the planning on the airlines part, there could have been crew problems at the other airport. Maybe the crew had a wreck or some medical problems or family problems. I worked at a plant that needed to run 24/7 as to shut it down, especially under under controlled conditions would have cost over a million dollars. We don't usually get much snow in NC, but one day we got 12 inches. Very few could get into work or out of the plant (around 400 or more people on a normal shift change each way). The ones there stayed over and worked to keep the place running. That goes to show things hapen that no one can predict. Sometimes, particularly on commuter flights, someone HAS to book a flight last minute so you really can't blame the "doctor". They cannot book a day off in between - both directions. Then stay home. As for cancelled flights, a friend was in New Youk 9-11 and needed to get home. He managed to find a rental car, and SEVEN people got home to Toronto that night. I've heard of it being done several times. Californis to Tennesee is a bit different though - - - although some people DID drive home from Florida in rental cars instead of flying- - Per Google Maps, it is a 5 hour drive. Of course it would be a risky thing for the stoned out doc to do. |
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/11/2017 11:10 AM, trader_4 wrote:
airlines and I hope the guy sues them for millions and settles for half that. He will win. So the new protocol is that you can just refuse to leave? Next you'll have everyone claiming they have important business to attend to and that they won't leave. This guy is just another one of these obnoxious assholes that screws with the rest of us and makes travel disasters. And check out what the media is finally starting to report about the doctor's background, eg TMZ is reporting the doctor's license was suspended for drug violations, including exchanging drug's for sex. The guy may be a dirt bag, but that does not excuse the airline for screwing up. The guy should not have been seated. Why did they not know in advance the employees had to fly? We're talking 15 or 20 minutes when they started to board. I'd like to know if the crew had to make a flight of if they were just on the way home from vacation. I've not seen anything on that yet. |
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/11/2017 4:34 AM, Bob wrote:
On 04/11/2017 12:41 AM, wrote: On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 21:12:33 -0700, wrote: I'd kindly tell the cops; before you put your hands on me, you better know what the **** you are doing. This **** could get ugly:-) The last thing you ever want to do is start a fight with a cop and that is doubly true at an airport where every little infraction is a federal crime. But Oren is super badass, even the feds wouldn't dare to mess with him. LOL And FWIW, if you don't want bumped, buy an adult seat up front or charter a Gulfstream. Airlines only bump the riffraff in coach. Nobody would get bumped if the airlines didn't **** up with their overbooking. I'm amazed there isn't a better control of this issue considering overbooking is common. They waste so much money with overbooking the need to offset the cost reflects on the rest who fly. |
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/11/2017 1:02 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 11:55:25 AM UTC-4, wrote: On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 08:18:51 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote: Does their own convenience include getting flight crews to where they are needed for a flight? That apparently is what happened here. The airline's failure to plan does not constitute an emergency for me. How do you know it was a failure to plan? If a plane that was supposed to arrive in some city doesn't get there because of a problem with the equipment or they had to make an emergency landing because of some other asshole passenger, then they may have no flight crew in that city for a plane that needs to leave later in the day. In that case, they have to get one that's available from somewhere. You are correct, but I question the timing. Did that happen after the passengers were seated? Possible, but doubtful. Should have been handled at the gate. Had it happen to me. Went to check in and the person asked if we would agree to be bumped. I asked what if I said "no". The reply was "you're not getting on anyway".` He gave us a nice deal and we arrived four hours late. First class both ways too! |
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/11/2017 11:17 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 10:14:55 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... I'd kindly tell the cops; before you put your hands on me, you better know what the **** you are doing. This **** could get ugly :-) There must be respect for the cops. The passanger was wrong to resist. I agree. He's just another one of these self-assholes who makes travel miserable for the whole plane. Twenty years ago, we didn't have this happening. Now unfortunately, jerks like this guy have seen that everyone has a cell phone to take a video and they figure they can make a spectacle, get a pay day, go on The Today Show, etc. Yes, maybe a bit over-dramatic regarding his exit, but why should he, or anyone, have to leave a plane or any event for that matter due to the error of the vendor? Especially during travel when one needs to get home. If one can hype the issue for a higher monetary reward, I say go for it. It's times the big people stop pushing the smaller people. If I was the total judge on this, I would give the passanger about a month of house arrest with one of the ankle things, and then give him about a million dollars from the airline for over booking. The over booking should be stopped,and if you get a ticket you should pay for it even if you can not make the flight. Are you willing to pay the price increase for tickets if they stop overbooking? That's what will happen. They overbook based on experience for that flight, so that they wind up with a plane as full as possible. If they book to passengers scheduled, most planes will have more empty seats and customers wind up paying for it. Plus we have the environental waste of fuel. |
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 08:10:54 -0700 (PDT)
trader_4 wrote: TMZ is reporting Your news source explains a lot about you. WTF?? |
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/11/2017 11:46 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says... about a million dollars from the airline for over booking. The over booking should be stopped,and if you get a ticket you should pay for it even if you can not make the flight. Are you willing to pay the price increase for tickets if they stop overbooking? That's what will happen. They overbook based on experience for that flight, so that they wind up with a plane as full as possible. If they book to passengers scheduled, most planes will have more empty seats and customers wind up paying for it. Plus we have the environental waste of fuel. I may not understand the over booking. However if someone wants a ticket on a plane and does not show up, isn't true he does not pay for the ticket ? If that is the case, then the airplane looses the money for that seat if not filled by over booking. If the people were forced to pay for the ticket even if they do not make the flight , then the seat is paid for even if it is empty. Wouldn't that be a way for the plane to make the same ammount of money ? How can one receive a ticket unless it's paid for? If they pay and don't show up, tuff noogies on the purchaser. If an airline reserves or provides a ticket without payment of some sort, sucks for them. TIme to revamp procedures. |
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/11/2017 12:35 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 4/10/2017 9:23 PM, Oren wrote: On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 21:15:07 -0700, Taxed and Spent wrote: If it was overbooked, there should have been four people standing up looking for a seat. Musical Chairs rules should apply. Airlines overbook every day. It ****es people off. People don't show up for flights, so airlines overbook. They play the statistics game and sometimes there are loosers. Just like in Musical Chairs. Irrelevant. It's a game played by the airlines, not the customers. The "losers" should ALWAYS be the airlines. They assume the risk, they should suffer the consequences when they lose that risk. |
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/11/2017 11:23 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 9:54:06 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 4/11/2017 9:20 AM, Frank wrote: I heard it was not overbooked but the airline wanted seats for its own employees to get to their jobs. Story still developing so we will see how it ends. Guy said he was important Dr. but who knows if he is telling the truth. If airline did do it for their own convenience it will cost them a bundle. Assuming the facts are correct. Is it more important for a flight attendant or a doctor to get to the job? IDK, that's a good question. I'd say it depends on what kind of doctor he is, what kind of patients he's seeing. It's being reported now that this doctor had his license suspended on drug charges, including trading drugs for sex. What does that tell you? And what is the inconvenience if the flight crew doesn't get to where they are needed and 200 other people, maybe other doctors, don't get to where they are going? If you are booking your own employees, shouldn't they have been boarded first and then bump passengers at the gate? Poorly done and United deserves the poor publicity. They were pretty stupid in the way they handled it. If the benefits are good, I'll take a bump. I like travelling first class at their expense. I would agree, assuming they knew they had these 4 employees all along. It's possible that only came up after people had boarded. Once this guy claimed he was a doctor and started bitching, they should have asked to see his license and if he showed it, then selected another random person. That seems like a reasonable thing that could have avoided this mess. What does it matter if the person is a doctor or a housewife, they are a paying customer victimized by the error of an airline. I simply don't understand how anyone can justify the actions of the airline based on the customers profession. Nobody volunteered...tuff **** for airlines. Put your four extra people in cargo. |
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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/11/2017 1:31 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 4/11/2017 11:46 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote: In article , says... about a million dollars from the airline for over booking. The over booking should be stopped,and if you get a ticket you should pay for it even if you can not make the flight. Are you willing to pay the price increase for tickets if they stop overbooking? That's what will happen. They overbook based on experience for that flight, so that they wind up with a plane as full as possible. If they book to passengers scheduled, most planes will have more empty seats and customers wind up paying for it. Plus we have the environental waste of fuel. I may not understand the over booking. However if someone wants a ticket on a plane and does not show up, isn't true he does not pay for the ticket ? If that is the case, then the airplane looses the money for that seat if not filled by over booking. If the people were forced to pay for the ticket even if they do not make the flight , then the seat is paid for even if it is empty. Wouldn't that be a way for the plane to make the same ammount of money ? How can one receive a ticket unless it's paid for? If they pay and don't show up, tuff noogies on the purchaser. If an airline reserves or provides a ticket without payment of some sort, sucks for them. TIme to revamp procedures. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T2G...layer_embedded |
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