This is a general question about how to choose vacuum cleaner suction by
the specifications (specifically by amperage).
http://i.cubeupload.com/JCucWV.gif

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

The amperage of the four vacuum cleaners is:
1. Dirt Devil 12.0 amps (no bags needed)
2. Eureka Express 11.5 amps (requires bags)
3. Eureka Rally 10.0 amps (requires bags)
4. Porter Cable wet/dry 4 gallon @ 8.0 amps (I bought this from Costco)

I realize the "amps" turn the motor, where we can presume that the more
amps, the more "power" - but what is the primary determinant of suction?

Is it the amperage?
Is it the geometry of the passages?
Is it the design of the motor vanes?

My main question is whether the suction is "mainly" a question of amperage?

My secondary question is what is a good "test" of the suction, bearing in
mind that I've already done a hand test, where they "seem" to be about
equal in suction (give or take a bit in about the order of amperage).

What vacuum cleaner suction wisdom can you impart upon me?
http://i.cubeupload.com/JCucWV.gif

"Danny D." writes:

This is a general question about how to choose vacuum cleaner suction by
the specifications (specifically by amperage).
http://i.cubeupload.com/JCucWV.gif

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

How are 4 going to work better than one?

Install a whole house vac.

--
Dan Espen

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 21:33:44 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

How are 4 going to work better than one?

Four floors.
One on each floor.

But really, I just want the two best ones.
The other two I'll take apart for fun.

Install a whole house vac.

I already have a whole house vac.
http://i.cubeupload.com/YM0MDz.gif

"Danny D." writes:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 21:33:44 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

How are 4 going to work better than one?

Four floors. One on each floor.

But really, I just want the two best ones.
The other two I'll take apart for fun.

Install a whole house vac.

I already have a whole house vac.
http://i.cubeupload.com/YM0MDz.gif

And what do you do with these 4 vacuum cleaners?

--
Dan Espen

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 22:20:01 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

And what do you do with these 4 vacuum cleaners?

Actually five.

1. Whole house (the motor works fine but there's almost no suction).
It used to work. Something is either stuck in the main tube or there is a
tear in the tubing. I can't find it since it must be within the walls.
So it's essentially useless.

2. Costco 8 amp wet/dry vac. It's OK but not all that good. I like that it
doesn't use bags, but that's about all I like about it.

That's what I used until I picked up these three to choose one from:
http://i.cubeupload.com/JCucWV.gif

One will stay in the garage (for the cars).
One will stay in the cleaning closet (for the upper floors).
One will stay downstairs (for the lower floors)

But this whole question is off topic since all I really wanted to know is
how people felt about using amperage as a guide to suction power.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 01:40:41 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 21:33:44 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

How are 4 going to work better than one?

Four floors.
One on each floor.

But really, I just want the two best ones.
The other two I'll take apart for fun.

Install a whole house vac.

I already have a whole house vac.
http://i.cubeupload.com/YM0MDz.gif

With a good central vac why would you EVER want a "regular" vacuum
cleaner??????

We had a Beam for about 20 years, and it outcleaned ANY portable vac I
ever tried. I replaced it last year with a new CanaVac unit and it has
WAY more suction - it will literally lift carpet.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 02:32:24 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 22:20:01 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

And what do you do with these 4 vacuum cleaners?

Actually five.

1. Whole house (the motor works fine but there's almost no suction).
It used to work. Something is either stuck in the main tube or there is a
tear in the tubing. I can't find it since it must be within the walls.
So it's essentially useless.

2. Costco 8 amp wet/dry vac. It's OK but not all that good. I like that it
doesn't use bags, but that's about all I like about it.

That's what I used until I picked up these three to choose one from:
http://i.cubeupload.com/JCucWV.gif

One will stay in the garage (for the cars).
One will stay in the cleaning closet (for the upper floors).
One will stay downstairs (for the lower floors)

But this whole question is off topic since all I really wanted to know is
how people felt about using amperage as a guide to suction power.
Amperage is only one indicator and doesn't tell you a whole lot - it
depends on the efficiency. A combination of water column and CFM is
required to really analyze a vacuum.
My current system has an 8.4 inch Tangential bypass motor. I was
wrong on my last post - it's not Elite, it's Signature.
It is rated at 675 air watts and 147" vacuum.. It is also rated at
12.7 amps, whichn is an HONEST 2 HP (1524 watts) which means it needs
a dedicated 15 amp circuit.

For all you ever wanted to know, and more - including all the
terminology, see: http://canavac.com/buyers-guide/

My current system has an 8.4 inch Tangential bypass motor. I was
wrong on my last post - it's not Elite, it's Signature.
It is rated at 675 air watts and 147" vacuum.. It is also rated at
12.7 amps, whichn is an HONEST 2 HP (1524 watts) which means it needs
a dedicated 15 amp circuit.

For all you ever wanted to know, and more - including all the
terminology, see: http://canavac.com/buyers-guide/


Thanks for the CahaVac link, Clare - I might be shopping soon.
I noticed a Costco/Home Depot machine also made-in-Canada -
Husky made in Quebec.
.. so we still can manufacture some things in North America !

Here's a 2012 business article about CanaVac f y i.
https://www.vdta.com/Magazines/AUG12...aVacAug12.html

John T.

On 4/3/2017 7:32 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 22:20:01 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

And what do you do with these 4 vacuum cleaners?

Actually five.

1. Whole house (the motor works fine but there's almost no suction).
It used to work. Something is either stuck in the main tube or there is a
tear in the tubing. I can't find it since it must be within the walls.
So it's essentially useless.

Try using one of your new vacs to reverse suction the whole house
system. Maybe you can clear the obstruction.

If it has good suction at the motor, the tube is plugged.

If suction is low at the motor, there is a leak or the motor is bad.

On 4/3/2017 11:25 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 01:40:41 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 21:33:44 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

How are 4 going to work better than one?

Four floors.
One on each floor.

But really, I just want the two best ones.
The other two I'll take apart for fun.

Install a whole house vac.

I already have a whole house vac.
http://i.cubeupload.com/YM0MDz.gif

With a good central vac why would you EVER want a "regular" vacuum
cleaner??????

We had a Beam for about 20 years, and it outcleaned ANY portable vac I
ever tried. I replaced it last year with a new CanaVac unit and it has
WAY more suction - it will literally lift carpet.

Had a central system in my old house for almost 40 years. The new house
didn't and wife didn't want one. So I put up with regular vacuums for a
while. I then bought a used central unit on ebay just for me in the
garage and basement. I eventually plumbed it to the house. She
complains but doesn't use anything else. But and a big BUT, this thing,
even though bagless, plugs up. In the old house, it was a Sears
cyclonic unit ... no filters at all. This unit must be cleaned out
every 4 months and the filter will be almost totally plugged. You have
to use another vacuum to clean the dumb thing. You have it use a long
wand to go up into the unit and suck out whatever plugs the filter. As
far as I can determine, the filter doesn't come out. Looking to replace
it with a true cyclonic unit like this:
http://mycentralvacuum.com/product/g...um-power-unit/

1. Whole house (the motor works fine but there's almost no suction).
It used to work. Something is either stuck in the main tube or there is a
tear in the tubing. I can't find it since it must be within the walls.
So it's essentially useless.



Try using one of your new vacs to reverse suction the whole house
system. Maybe you can clear the obstruction.
If it has good suction at the motor, the tube is plugged.
If suction is low at the motor, there is a leak or the motor is bad.


Over about 30 years of using central vac in two homes -
I think that I've had maybe 3 or 4 clogs - all were in the hose -
not in the vac line. Just sayin' ...
You can tell by the sound of the vac machine if it's a clog -
- over-working, high pitch - as opposed to a broken line -
the sound would be normal, but no suction. You might also hear the
location of the break inside the wall - it would noisy unless it was
a big open disconnection...
If the hose is __definitely not__ the problem - check & snake the
inlet to the vac machine.
Good luck.
John T.

It's the angle of the dangle.

On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 9:04:39 AM UTC-4, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:
It's the angle of the dangle.

he's not kidding, it's a lot to do with the angle of the blades in the
centrifugal blower.

There are different portions of the curve.

One test is how much suction it can create with no air flow, like when you put your hand over the opening

The other extreme is how much air flows when there is no restriction.

You will notice that most vacuum cleaners will speed up and draw less current when you block the airflow.

So there is no simple answer. But everything else being equal, a more powerful motor can pull more dirt and will draw more current.

Google centrifugal pump or centrifugal blower design for the gory details.

mark

On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 9:04:39 AM UTC-4, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:
It's the angle of the dangle.

he's not kidding, it's a lot to do with the angle of the blades in the
centrifugal blower.

There are different portions of the curve.

One test is how much suction it can create with no air flow, like when you put your hand over the opening

The other extreme is how much air flows when there is no restriction.

You will notice that most vacuum cleaners will speed up and draw less current when you block the airflow.

So there is no simple answer. But everything else being equal, a more powerful motor can pull more dirt and will draw more current.

Google centrifugal pump or centrifugal blower design for the gory details.

mark

On 4/4/2017 11:09 AM, wrote:


So there is no simple answer. But everything else being equal, a more powerful motor can pull more dirt and will draw more current.

mark



While that is true, the most suction is not always the best cleaner.
Agitator brush design, venturi, filtration, ability to get close to the
wall and corners, ease of use, all affect the results

On 4/4/2017 11:09 AM, wrote:


So there is no simple answer. But everything else being equal, a more powerful motor can pull more dirt and will draw more current.

mark



While that is true, the most suction is not always the best cleaner.
Agitator brush design, venturi, filtration, ability to get close to the
wall and corners, ease of use, all affect the results

On Monday, April 3, 2017 at 9:08:30 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
This is a general question about how to choose vacuum cleaner suction by
the specifications (specifically by amperage).
http://i.cubeupload.com/JCucWV.gif

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

The amperage of the four vacuum cleaners is:
1. Dirt Devil 12.0 amps (no bags needed)
2. Eureka Express 11.5 amps (requires bags)
3. Eureka Rally 10.0 amps (requires bags)
4. Porter Cable wet/dry 4 gallon @ 8.0 amps (I bought this from Costco)

I realize the "amps" turn the motor, where we can presume that the more
amps, the more "power" - but what is the primary determinant of suction?

Is it the amperage?
Is it the geometry of the passages?
Is it the design of the motor vanes?

My main question is whether the suction is "mainly" a question of amperage?


It's all of the above. Since you have all four of them, just try
them out and see which work best.

On Monday, April 3, 2017 at 9:08:30 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
This is a general question about how to choose vacuum cleaner suction by
the specifications (specifically by amperage).
http://i.cubeupload.com/JCucWV.gif

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

The amperage of the four vacuum cleaners is:
1. Dirt Devil 12.0 amps (no bags needed)
2. Eureka Express 11.5 amps (requires bags)
3. Eureka Rally 10.0 amps (requires bags)
4. Porter Cable wet/dry 4 gallon @ 8.0 amps (I bought this from Costco)

I realize the "amps" turn the motor, where we can presume that the more
amps, the more "power" - but what is the primary determinant of suction?

Is it the amperage?
Is it the geometry of the passages?
Is it the design of the motor vanes?

My main question is whether the suction is "mainly" a question of amperage?


It's all of the above. Since you have all four of them, just try
them out and see which work best.

On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 07:31:41 -0400, wrote:



My current system has an 8.4 inch Tangential bypass motor. I was
wrong on my last post - it's not Elite, it's Signature.
It is rated at 675 air watts and 147" vacuum.. It is also rated at
12.7 amps, whichn is an HONEST 2 HP (1524 watts) which means it needs
a dedicated 15 amp circuit.

For all you ever wanted to know, and more - including all the
terminology, see: http://canavac.com/buyers-guide/


Thanks for the CahaVac link, Clare - I might be shopping soon.
I noticed a Costco/Home Depot machine also made-in-Canada -
Husky made in Quebec.
.. so we still can manufacture some things in North America !

Here's a 2012 business article about CanaVac f y i.
https://www.vdta.com/Magazines/AUG12...aVacAug12.html

John T.

We can manufacture a LOT of stuff in North America - and better than
the far east in so many cases. If looking at Costco vacuums, remember
to check what kind of motor. As far as I'm concerned, it's Lamb or go
home.

On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 07:31:41 -0400, wrote:



My current system has an 8.4 inch Tangential bypass motor. I was
wrong on my last post - it's not Elite, it's Signature.
It is rated at 675 air watts and 147" vacuum.. It is also rated at
12.7 amps, whichn is an HONEST 2 HP (1524 watts) which means it needs
a dedicated 15 amp circuit.

For all you ever wanted to know, and more - including all the
terminology, see: http://canavac.com/buyers-guide/


Thanks for the CahaVac link, Clare - I might be shopping soon.
I noticed a Costco/Home Depot machine also made-in-Canada -
Husky made in Quebec.
.. so we still can manufacture some things in North America !

Here's a 2012 business article about CanaVac f y i.
https://www.vdta.com/Magazines/AUG12...aVacAug12.html

John T.

We can manufacture a LOT of stuff in North America - and better than
the far east in so many cases. If looking at Costco vacuums, remember
to check what kind of motor. As far as I'm concerned, it's Lamb or go
home.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 08:31:37 -0400, Art Todesco
wrote:

On 4/3/2017 11:25 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 01:40:41 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 21:33:44 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

How are 4 going to work better than one?

Four floors.
One on each floor.

But really, I just want the two best ones.
The other two I'll take apart for fun.

Install a whole house vac.

I already have a whole house vac.
http://i.cubeupload.com/YM0MDz.gif

With a good central vac why would you EVER want a "regular" vacuum
cleaner??????

We had a Beam for about 20 years, and it outcleaned ANY portable vac I
ever tried. I replaced it last year with a new CanaVac unit and it has
WAY more suction - it will literally lift carpet.

Had a central system in my old house for almost 40 years. The new house
didn't and wife didn't want one. So I put up with regular vacuums for a
while. I then bought a used central unit on ebay just for me in the
garage and basement. I eventually plumbed it to the house. She
complains but doesn't use anything else. But and a big BUT, this thing,
even though bagless, plugs up. In the old house, it was a Sears
cyclonic unit ... no filters at all. This unit must be cleaned out
every 4 months and the filter will be almost totally plugged. You have
to use another vacuum to clean the dumb thing. You have it use a long
wand to go up into the unit and suck out whatever plugs the filter. As
far as I can determine, the filter doesn't come out. Looking to replace
it with a true cyclonic unit like this:
http://mycentralvacuum.com/product/g...um-power-unit/
We use filter bags in the CanaVac - the Beam was bagless and the
filter, although never clogging, was an awfull mess when you emptied
the bucket.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 08:31:37 -0400, Art Todesco
wrote:

On 4/3/2017 11:25 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 01:40:41 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 21:33:44 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

How are 4 going to work better than one?

Four floors.
One on each floor.

But really, I just want the two best ones.
The other two I'll take apart for fun.

Install a whole house vac.

I already have a whole house vac.
http://i.cubeupload.com/YM0MDz.gif

With a good central vac why would you EVER want a "regular" vacuum
cleaner??????

We had a Beam for about 20 years, and it outcleaned ANY portable vac I
ever tried. I replaced it last year with a new CanaVac unit and it has
WAY more suction - it will literally lift carpet.

Had a central system in my old house for almost 40 years. The new house
didn't and wife didn't want one. So I put up with regular vacuums for a
while. I then bought a used central unit on ebay just for me in the
garage and basement. I eventually plumbed it to the house. She
complains but doesn't use anything else. But and a big BUT, this thing,
even though bagless, plugs up. In the old house, it was a Sears
cyclonic unit ... no filters at all. This unit must be cleaned out
every 4 months and the filter will be almost totally plugged. You have
to use another vacuum to clean the dumb thing. You have it use a long
wand to go up into the unit and suck out whatever plugs the filter. As
far as I can determine, the filter doesn't come out. Looking to replace
it with a true cyclonic unit like this:
http://mycentralvacuum.com/product/g...um-power-unit/
We use filter bags in the CanaVac - the Beam was bagless and the
filter, although never clogging, was an awfull mess when you emptied
the bucket.

"Danny D." writes:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 22:20:01 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

And what do you do with these 4 vacuum cleaners?

Actually five.

1. Whole house (the motor works fine but there's almost no suction).
It used to work. Something is either stuck in the main tube or there is a
tear in the tubing. I can't find it since it must be within the walls.
So it's essentially useless.

2. Costco 8 amp wet/dry vac. It's OK but not all that good. I like that it
doesn't use bags, but that's about all I like about it.

That's what I used until I picked up these three to choose one from:
http://i.cubeupload.com/JCucWV.gif

One will stay in the garage (for the cars).
One will stay in the cleaning closet (for the upper floors).
One will stay downstairs (for the lower floors)

But this whole question is off topic since all I really wanted to know is
how people felt about using amperage as a guide to suction power.

Ideally, they will directly relate.

Fortunately, my whole house system still works and I hope to
never go back to those stand alone vacs. They just don't suck
enough.

Sometimes you need to call a repair man.

--
Dan Espen

On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 22:00:37 -0400, Dan Espen
wrote:

"Danny D." writes:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 22:20:01 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

And what do you do with these 4 vacuum cleaners?

Actually five.

1. Whole house (the motor works fine but there's almost no suction).
It used to work. Something is either stuck in the main tube or there is a
tear in the tubing. I can't find it since it must be within the walls.
So it's essentially useless.

2. Costco 8 amp wet/dry vac. It's OK but not all that good. I like that it
doesn't use bags, but that's about all I like about it.

That's what I used until I picked up these three to choose one from:
http://i.cubeupload.com/JCucWV.gif

One will stay in the garage (for the cars).
One will stay in the cleaning closet (for the upper floors).
One will stay downstairs (for the lower floors)

But this whole question is off topic since all I really wanted to know is
how people felt about using amperage as a guide to suction power.

Ideally, they will directly relate.

Fortunately, my whole house system still works and I hope to
never go back to those stand alone vacs. They just don't suck
enough.

Sometimes you need to call a repair man.


Why should you never buy a Lucas Vacuum??
It would be the only thing they make that doesn't suck - - -

On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 11:56:24 -0400, opined:

We use filter bags in the CanaVac - the Beam was bagless and the
filter, although never clogging, was an awfull mess when you emptied
the bucket.

My central vac is bagless.
It has a motor hanging from the garage ceiling (in a side room) where a
steel 5-gallon-sized bucket captures all the stuff vacuumed up.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 08:31:37 -0400, Art Todesco opined:

You have
to use another vacuum to clean the dumb thing.

Two years ago when I asked here how to debug why my central vac didn't have
much suction, I didn't have extra vacuum cleaners.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....w/C-a-6iiVHrMJ

Now that I have four vacuum cleaners, I might plug one each into four
outlets, and see if anything comes out.

Or should I suction from the garage where the motor is?

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 23:25:48 -0400, opined:

With a good central vac why would you EVER want a "regular" vacuum
cleaner??????

We had a Beam for about 20 years, and it outcleaned ANY portable vac I
ever tried. I replaced it last year with a new CanaVac unit and it has
WAY more suction - it will literally lift carpet.

The central vacuum is too fraught with weak spots.
Like how do I debug when it doesn't work?
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....w/C-a-6iiVHrMJ

On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 22:00:37 -0400, Dan Espen opined:

Ideally, they will directly relate.

That's what I was kind of thinking, which was that the amperage should
mostly relate to the suction and aifflow, most other things being roughtly
equal (like hose diameter).

Fortunately, my whole house system still works and I hope to
never go back to those stand alone vacs. They just don't suck
enough.

Mine doesn't work any more.
It hasn't worked for two years.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....w/C-a-6iiVHrMJ

Sometimes you need to call a repair man.

Anathema!

On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 08:56:43 -0400, opined:

Over about 30 years of using central vac in two homes -
I think that I've had maybe 3 or 4 clogs - all were in the hose -
not in the vac line. Just sayin' ...

The hose was snaked two years ago, right here, in a.h.r.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7573/1...fb4ff8bd_c.jpg

You can tell by the sound of the vac machine if it's a clog -
- over-working, high pitch - as opposed to a broken line -
the sound would be normal, but no suction.

I can't tell what the sound means as the motor is in the garage and the
outlets are scattered about the house.

You might also hear the
location of the break inside the wall - it would noisy unless it was
a big open disconnection...

Hmmm. I may need to try that, but I never could figure out why it had such
low suction as it used to work just fine.

Maybe I should debug again.

If the hose is __definitely not__ the problem - check & snake the
inlet to the vac machine.

I have a 75-foot snake but what are the hoses made of inside the walls?
Are they strong enough to take a steel snake that is meant for plumbing?

I also have a 100 foot electricians snake.
But I'm afraid of puncturing the tubes inside the wall because I don't know
what they are made up of.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 05:12:49 -0700, Bob F opined:

Try using one of your new vacs to reverse suction the whole house
system. Maybe you can clear the obstruction.

If it has good suction at the motor, the tube is plugged.

If suction is low at the motor, there is a leak or the motor is bad.

That's a GREAT idea!

I had asked two years ago how to debug the whole house system:
How do you debu low suction in a central vacuum system?
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....w/C-a-6iiVHrMJ

I eventually gave up because I think the problem may be inside the walls.

I didn't have the additional vacuum cleaners at that time, but now that I
do, I can take the most powerful one and see if it can suction the wall.

I thought of snaking the wall outlets but I don't know what the material is
made up of so I didn't want to risk puncturing the tubes inside the wall
with my 75-foot snake.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7573/1...fb4ff8bd_c.jpg

On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 00:05:29 -0400, opined:

Amperage is only one indicator and doesn't tell you a whole lot - it
depends on the efficiency. A combination of water column and CFM is
required to really analyze a vacuum.

What you say makes sense in that the amperage is only an indirect
indication of potential sucking power and air flow.

But how does a homeowner, "easily" obtain sucking power and air flow?

Of course, I put my hand over the opening, and that's about all I could
measure.

My current system has an 8.4 inch Tangential bypass motor. I was
wrong on my last post - it's not Elite, it's Signature.
It is rated at 675 air watts and 147" vacuum.

Air watts?
I never heard of "air watts" until now.

I see it's a measure of efficiency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airwatt

I don't really care about efficiency since a vacuum is just used
sporadically. What I care about is sucking power.

It is also rated at
12.7 amps, whichn is an HONEST 2 HP (1524 watts) which means it needs
a dedicated 15 amp circuit.

One of the vacuum cleaners says it's 12.0 watts, and it doesn't flip the
circuit breaker, so, I'll take that as an upper range for portable vacuum
cleaners.

For all you ever wanted to know, and more - including all the
terminology, see: http://canavac.com/buyers-guide/

That site is nice but it doesn't help for troubleshooting an existing
central vacuum setup.

I have a central vacuum cleaner, but I gave up on it years ago after asking
here on this newsgroup how to debug why it had almost no air flow.

How do you debug low suction in a central vacuum system?
12/30/2014
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....w/C-a-6iiVHrMJ

None of the outlets seem to be leaking overtly.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7500/1...7989dca3_c.jpg

The 25-foot long external hose is clear of obstructions:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7573/1...fb4ff8bd_c.jpg

The motor works and the motor filter is clean.

I suspect there is either a blockage inside the walls or a tear inside the
walls.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7533/1...abc9b313_b.jpg

So it's effectively dead.
I can't imagine how one "fixes" that, without ripping the walls out, which
I'm not going to do. Ever.

You can tell by the sound of the vac machine if it's a clog -
- over-working, high pitch - as opposed to a broken line -
the sound would be normal, but no suction.


I can't tell what the sound means as the motor is in the garage and the
outlets are scattered about the house.



Both of the two central vac units that I have owned -
diffferent makes - had an additional inlet at the machine -
if yours does - you coulld check IT for suction - carry your
hose to the garage.. and listen to the motor..
Also - if IT doesn't have suction - ta-da.
John T.

On Thu, 06 Apr 2017 08:54:27 -0400, opined:

Both of the two central vac units that I have owned -
diffferent makes - had an additional inlet at the machine -
if yours does - you coulld check IT for suction - carry your
hose to the garage.. and listen to the motor..
Also - if IT doesn't have suction - ta-da.

Inlets?

I never noticed if there is an additional "inlet".

There is an outlet for exhaust which is near the vacuum motor and which
blows to the outside of the house.

I guess I could take it apart and disconnect the main inlet hose though.

I'll look later on today when it gets light and see what I can see.

"Danny D." writes:

On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 22:00:37 -0400, Dan Espen opined:

Ideally, they will directly relate.

That's what I was kind of thinking, which was that the amperage should
mostly relate to the suction and aifflow, most other things being roughtly
equal (like hose diameter).

Fortunately, my whole house system still works and I hope to
never go back to those stand alone vacs. They just don't suck
enough.

Mine doesn't work any more.
It hasn't worked for two years.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....w/C-a-6iiVHrMJ

Sometimes you need to call a repair man.

Anathema!

Yes...No!

True this is a home repair group.
But here you have a valuable central vac system that you will
definitely get repaired if you ever move out. If you can't figure out
the problem, it's worth spending the money now and getting the
use out of it yourself.

--
Dan Espen

"Danny D." writes:

On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 08:56:43 -0400, opined:

Over about 30 years of using central vac in two homes -
I think that I've had maybe 3 or 4 clogs - all were in the hose -
not in the vac line. Just sayin' ...

The hose was snaked two years ago, right here, in
a.h.r. https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7573/1...fb4ff8bd_c.jpg

You can tell by the sound of the vac machine if it's a clog -
- over-working, high pitch - as opposed to a broken line -
the sound would be normal, but no suction.

I can't tell what the sound means as the motor is in the garage and the
outlets are scattered about the house.

You might also hear the
location of the break inside the wall - it would noisy unless it was
a big open disconnection...

Hmmm. I may need to try that, but I never could figure out why it had such
low suction as it used to work just fine.

Maybe I should debug again.

If the hose is __definitely not__ the problem - check & snake the
inlet to the vac machine.

I have a 75-foot snake but what are the hoses made of inside the walls?
Are they strong enough to take a steel snake that is meant for plumbing?

My in the wall piping is white vinyl pipe like you see in water waste runs.

Isolate the motor/vac from the in-house piping by removing and sealing
the connection(s), then use the outlet on the vac itself to see if you
have suction there. That will save you time trying to clear pipes that
might not be the problem.

--
Dan Espen

"Danny D." writes:

On Thu, 06 Apr 2017 08:54:27 -0400, opined:

Both of the two central vac units that I have owned -
diffferent makes - had an additional inlet at the machine -
if yours does - you coulld check IT for suction - carry your
hose to the garage.. and listen to the motor..
Also - if IT doesn't have suction - ta-da.

Inlets?

I never noticed if there is an additional "inlet".

There is an outlet for exhaust which is near the vacuum motor and which
blows to the outside of the house.

I guess I could take it apart and disconnect the main inlet hose though.

I'll look later on today when it gets light and see what I can see.

Like hubops, my unit has an outlet right on the vac unit that is not
part of the in-house system. Disconnect the in-house system, seal it
with a cap or duct tape, then use the outlet on the vac.

Since you are trying to play qualified vacuum repairman, you might
want to by a tool the repairman would use the actually measure
the vacuum. Not sure what it's called, but pretty sure it exists.


--
Dan Espen

On Thursday, April 6, 2017 at 10:54:28 AM UTC-4, wrote:

Both of the two central vac units that I have owned -
diffferent makes - had an additional inlet at the machine -
if yours does - you coulld check IT for suction - carry your
hose to the garage.. and listen to the motor..
Also - if IT doesn't have suction - ta-da.


Inlets?
I never noticed if there is an additional "inlet".
I'll look later on today when it gets light and see what I can see.


Inlet - referred to as a utility valve by Beam :

http://www.beamvac.com/Productcatalo...ies/Beam-275C/

A little flapper door covers a suction point where your hose
can be inserted. ... your vacuum hose, that is.
John T.

I have a Pullman and it too has an inlet right on the unit and a
switch nearby that turns on the unit. Seems very logical that all
of them would have that handy feature, but then who knows.

Both of the two central vac units that I have owned -
diffferent makes - had an additional inlet at the machine -
if yours does - you coulld check IT for suction - carry your
hose to the garage.. and listen to the motor..
Also - if IT doesn't have suction - ta-da.


Inlets?
I never noticed if there is an additional "inlet".
I'll look later on today when it gets light and see what I can see.


Inlet - referred to as a utility valve by Beam :

http://www.beamvac.com/Productcatalo...ies/Beam-275C/

A little flapper door covers a suction point where your hose
can be inserted. ... your vacuum hose, that is.
John T.

On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 03:51:40 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 11:56:24 -0400, opined:

We use filter bags in the CanaVac - the Beam was bagless and the
filter, although never clogging, was an awfull mess when you emptied
the bucket.

My central vac is bagless.
It has a motor hanging from the garage ceiling (in a side room) where a
steel 5-gallon-sized bucket captures all the stuff vacuumed up.
The CanaVac can be used bagless too, but we find the bag more
convenient. The unit is in the furnace room in our basement, and vents
to the outside.

On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 03:51:42 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 08:31:37 -0400, Art Todesco opined:

You have
to use another vacuum to clean the dumb thing.

Two years ago when I asked here how to debug why my central vac didn't have
much suction, I didn't have extra vacuum cleaners.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....w/C-a-6iiVHrMJ

Now that I have four vacuum cleaners, I might plug one each into four
outlets, and see if anything comes out.

Or should I suction from the garage where the motor is?
The unit is already trying to suck that way- unsuccessfully so I'd
try sucking out the inlets.