This is a general question about how to choose vacuum cleaner suction by
the specifications (specifically by amperage).
http://i.cubeupload.com/JCucWV.gif

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

The amperage of the four vacuum cleaners is:
1. Dirt Devil 12.0 amps (no bags needed)
2. Eureka Express 11.5 amps (requires bags)
3. Eureka Rally 10.0 amps (requires bags)
4. Porter Cable wet/dry 4 gallon @ 8.0 amps (I bought this from Costco)

I realize the "amps" turn the motor, where we can presume that the more
amps, the more "power" - but what is the primary determinant of suction?

Is it the amperage?
Is it the geometry of the passages?
Is it the design of the motor vanes?

My main question is whether the suction is "mainly" a question of amperage?

My secondary question is what is a good "test" of the suction, bearing in
mind that I've already done a hand test, where they "seem" to be about
equal in suction (give or take a bit in about the order of amperage).

What vacuum cleaner suction wisdom can you impart upon me?
http://i.cubeupload.com/JCucWV.gif

"Danny D." writes:

This is a general question about how to choose vacuum cleaner suction by
the specifications (specifically by amperage).
http://i.cubeupload.com/JCucWV.gif

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

How are 4 going to work better than one?

Install a whole house vac.

--
Dan Espen

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 21:33:44 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

How are 4 going to work better than one?

Four floors.
One on each floor.

But really, I just want the two best ones.
The other two I'll take apart for fun.

Install a whole house vac.

I already have a whole house vac.
http://i.cubeupload.com/YM0MDz.gif

"Danny D." writes:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 21:33:44 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

How are 4 going to work better than one?

Four floors. One on each floor.

But really, I just want the two best ones.
The other two I'll take apart for fun.

Install a whole house vac.

I already have a whole house vac.
http://i.cubeupload.com/YM0MDz.gif

And what do you do with these 4 vacuum cleaners?

--
Dan Espen

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 22:20:01 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

And what do you do with these 4 vacuum cleaners?

Actually five.

1. Whole house (the motor works fine but there's almost no suction).
It used to work. Something is either stuck in the main tube or there is a
tear in the tubing. I can't find it since it must be within the walls.
So it's essentially useless.

2. Costco 8 amp wet/dry vac. It's OK but not all that good. I like that it
doesn't use bags, but that's about all I like about it.

That's what I used until I picked up these three to choose one from:
http://i.cubeupload.com/JCucWV.gif

One will stay in the garage (for the cars).
One will stay in the cleaning closet (for the upper floors).
One will stay downstairs (for the lower floors)

But this whole question is off topic since all I really wanted to know is
how people felt about using amperage as a guide to suction power.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 02:32:24 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 22:20:01 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

And what do you do with these 4 vacuum cleaners?

Actually five.

1. Whole house (the motor works fine but there's almost no suction).
It used to work. Something is either stuck in the main tube or there is a
tear in the tubing. I can't find it since it must be within the walls.
So it's essentially useless.

2. Costco 8 amp wet/dry vac. It's OK but not all that good. I like that it
doesn't use bags, but that's about all I like about it.

That's what I used until I picked up these three to choose one from:
http://i.cubeupload.com/JCucWV.gif

One will stay in the garage (for the cars).
One will stay in the cleaning closet (for the upper floors).
One will stay downstairs (for the lower floors)

But this whole question is off topic since all I really wanted to know is
how people felt about using amperage as a guide to suction power.
Amperage is only one indicator and doesn't tell you a whole lot - it
depends on the efficiency. A combination of water column and CFM is
required to really analyze a vacuum.
My current system has an 8.4 inch Tangential bypass motor. I was
wrong on my last post - it's not Elite, it's Signature.
It is rated at 675 air watts and 147" vacuum.. It is also rated at
12.7 amps, whichn is an HONEST 2 HP (1524 watts) which means it needs
a dedicated 15 amp circuit.

For all you ever wanted to know, and more - including all the
terminology, see: http://canavac.com/buyers-guide/

On 4/3/2017 7:32 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 22:20:01 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

And what do you do with these 4 vacuum cleaners?

Actually five.

1. Whole house (the motor works fine but there's almost no suction).
It used to work. Something is either stuck in the main tube or there is a
tear in the tubing. I can't find it since it must be within the walls.
So it's essentially useless.

Try using one of your new vacs to reverse suction the whole house
system. Maybe you can clear the obstruction.

If it has good suction at the motor, the tube is plugged.

If suction is low at the motor, there is a leak or the motor is bad.

"Danny D." writes:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 22:20:01 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

And what do you do with these 4 vacuum cleaners?

Actually five.

1. Whole house (the motor works fine but there's almost no suction).
It used to work. Something is either stuck in the main tube or there is a
tear in the tubing. I can't find it since it must be within the walls.
So it's essentially useless.

2. Costco 8 amp wet/dry vac. It's OK but not all that good. I like that it
doesn't use bags, but that's about all I like about it.

That's what I used until I picked up these three to choose one from:
http://i.cubeupload.com/JCucWV.gif

One will stay in the garage (for the cars).
One will stay in the cleaning closet (for the upper floors).
One will stay downstairs (for the lower floors)

But this whole question is off topic since all I really wanted to know is
how people felt about using amperage as a guide to suction power.

Ideally, they will directly relate.

Fortunately, my whole house system still works and I hope to
never go back to those stand alone vacs. They just don't suck
enough.

Sometimes you need to call a repair man.

--
Dan Espen

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 01:40:41 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 21:33:44 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

How are 4 going to work better than one?

Four floors.
One on each floor.

But really, I just want the two best ones.
The other two I'll take apart for fun.

Install a whole house vac.

I already have a whole house vac.
http://i.cubeupload.com/YM0MDz.gif

With a good central vac why would you EVER want a "regular" vacuum
cleaner??????

We had a Beam for about 20 years, and it outcleaned ANY portable vac I
ever tried. I replaced it last year with a new CanaVac unit and it has
WAY more suction - it will literally lift carpet.

On 4/3/2017 11:25 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 01:40:41 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 21:33:44 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

How are 4 going to work better than one?

Four floors.
One on each floor.

But really, I just want the two best ones.
The other two I'll take apart for fun.

Install a whole house vac.

I already have a whole house vac.
http://i.cubeupload.com/YM0MDz.gif

With a good central vac why would you EVER want a "regular" vacuum
cleaner??????

We had a Beam for about 20 years, and it outcleaned ANY portable vac I
ever tried. I replaced it last year with a new CanaVac unit and it has
WAY more suction - it will literally lift carpet.

Had a central system in my old house for almost 40 years. The new house
didn't and wife didn't want one. So I put up with regular vacuums for a
while. I then bought a used central unit on ebay just for me in the
garage and basement. I eventually plumbed it to the house. She
complains but doesn't use anything else. But and a big BUT, this thing,
even though bagless, plugs up. In the old house, it was a Sears
cyclonic unit ... no filters at all. This unit must be cleaned out
every 4 months and the filter will be almost totally plugged. You have
to use another vacuum to clean the dumb thing. You have it use a long
wand to go up into the unit and suck out whatever plugs the filter. As
far as I can determine, the filter doesn't come out. Looking to replace
it with a true cyclonic unit like this:
http://mycentralvacuum.com/product/g...um-power-unit/

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 08:31:37 -0400, Art Todesco
wrote:

On 4/3/2017 11:25 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 01:40:41 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 21:33:44 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

How are 4 going to work better than one?

Four floors.
One on each floor.

But really, I just want the two best ones.
The other two I'll take apart for fun.

Install a whole house vac.

I already have a whole house vac.
http://i.cubeupload.com/YM0MDz.gif

With a good central vac why would you EVER want a "regular" vacuum
cleaner??????

We had a Beam for about 20 years, and it outcleaned ANY portable vac I
ever tried. I replaced it last year with a new CanaVac unit and it has
WAY more suction - it will literally lift carpet.

Had a central system in my old house for almost 40 years. The new house
didn't and wife didn't want one. So I put up with regular vacuums for a
while. I then bought a used central unit on ebay just for me in the
garage and basement. I eventually plumbed it to the house. She
complains but doesn't use anything else. But and a big BUT, this thing,
even though bagless, plugs up. In the old house, it was a Sears
cyclonic unit ... no filters at all. This unit must be cleaned out
every 4 months and the filter will be almost totally plugged. You have
to use another vacuum to clean the dumb thing. You have it use a long
wand to go up into the unit and suck out whatever plugs the filter. As
far as I can determine, the filter doesn't come out. Looking to replace
it with a true cyclonic unit like this:
http://mycentralvacuum.com/product/g...um-power-unit/
We use filter bags in the CanaVac - the Beam was bagless and the
filter, although never clogging, was an awfull mess when you emptied
the bucket.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 08:31:37 -0400, Art Todesco
wrote:

On 4/3/2017 11:25 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 01:40:41 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 21:33:44 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

How are 4 going to work better than one?

Four floors.
One on each floor.

But really, I just want the two best ones.
The other two I'll take apart for fun.

Install a whole house vac.

I already have a whole house vac.
http://i.cubeupload.com/YM0MDz.gif

With a good central vac why would you EVER want a "regular" vacuum
cleaner??????

We had a Beam for about 20 years, and it outcleaned ANY portable vac I
ever tried. I replaced it last year with a new CanaVac unit and it has
WAY more suction - it will literally lift carpet.

Had a central system in my old house for almost 40 years. The new house
didn't and wife didn't want one. So I put up with regular vacuums for a
while. I then bought a used central unit on ebay just for me in the
garage and basement. I eventually plumbed it to the house. She
complains but doesn't use anything else. But and a big BUT, this thing,
even though bagless, plugs up. In the old house, it was a Sears
cyclonic unit ... no filters at all. This unit must be cleaned out
every 4 months and the filter will be almost totally plugged. You have
to use another vacuum to clean the dumb thing. You have it use a long
wand to go up into the unit and suck out whatever plugs the filter. As
far as I can determine, the filter doesn't come out. Looking to replace
it with a true cyclonic unit like this:
http://mycentralvacuum.com/product/g...um-power-unit/
We use filter bags in the CanaVac - the Beam was bagless and the
filter, although never clogging, was an awfull mess when you emptied
the bucket.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 08:31:37 -0400, Art Todesco opined:

You have
to use another vacuum to clean the dumb thing.

Two years ago when I asked here how to debug why my central vac didn't have
much suction, I didn't have extra vacuum cleaners.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....w/C-a-6iiVHrMJ

Now that I have four vacuum cleaners, I might plug one each into four
outlets, and see if anything comes out.

Or should I suction from the garage where the motor is?

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 23:25:48 -0400, opined:

With a good central vac why would you EVER want a "regular" vacuum
cleaner??????

We had a Beam for about 20 years, and it outcleaned ANY portable vac I
ever tried. I replaced it last year with a new CanaVac unit and it has
WAY more suction - it will literally lift carpet.

The central vacuum is too fraught with weak spots.
Like how do I debug when it doesn't work?
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....w/C-a-6iiVHrMJ

On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 03:51:43 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 23:25:48 -0400, opined:

With a good central vac why would you EVER want a "regular" vacuum
cleaner??????

We had a Beam for about 20 years, and it outcleaned ANY portable vac I
ever tried. I replaced it last year with a new CanaVac unit and it has
WAY more suction - it will literally lift carpet.

The central vacuum is too fraught with weak spots.
Like how do I debug when it doesn't work?
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....w/C-a-6iiVHrMJ
A whole lot easier than tearing apart many of the "standard" vacuums
today.. I can isolate why mine doesnt start by turning it on manually
with the unit-mounted switch. If it runs then and not when plugging in
the hose, it is a remote wiring issue. If not it is a unit problem.
The "switches" on the outlets are all in parallel, so if none work you
know where to look (common wiring). If only one doesn't work you also
know where to look.

It's the angle of the dangle.

On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 9:04:39 AM UTC-4, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:
It's the angle of the dangle.

he's not kidding, it's a lot to do with the angle of the blades in the
centrifugal blower.

There are different portions of the curve.

One test is how much suction it can create with no air flow, like when you put your hand over the opening

The other extreme is how much air flows when there is no restriction.

You will notice that most vacuum cleaners will speed up and draw less current when you block the airflow.

So there is no simple answer. But everything else being equal, a more powerful motor can pull more dirt and will draw more current.

Google centrifugal pump or centrifugal blower design for the gory details.

mark

On 4/4/2017 11:09 AM, wrote:


So there is no simple answer. But everything else being equal, a more powerful motor can pull more dirt and will draw more current.

mark



While that is true, the most suction is not always the best cleaner.
Agitator brush design, venturi, filtration, ability to get close to the
wall and corners, ease of use, all affect the results

On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 9:04:39 AM UTC-4, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:
It's the angle of the dangle.

he's not kidding, it's a lot to do with the angle of the blades in the
centrifugal blower.

There are different portions of the curve.

One test is how much suction it can create with no air flow, like when you put your hand over the opening

The other extreme is how much air flows when there is no restriction.

You will notice that most vacuum cleaners will speed up and draw less current when you block the airflow.

So there is no simple answer. But everything else being equal, a more powerful motor can pull more dirt and will draw more current.

Google centrifugal pump or centrifugal blower design for the gory details.

mark

On 4/4/2017 11:09 AM, wrote:


So there is no simple answer. But everything else being equal, a more powerful motor can pull more dirt and will draw more current.

mark



While that is true, the most suction is not always the best cleaner.
Agitator brush design, venturi, filtration, ability to get close to the
wall and corners, ease of use, all affect the results

On Monday, April 3, 2017 at 9:08:30 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
This is a general question about how to choose vacuum cleaner suction by
the specifications (specifically by amperage).
http://i.cubeupload.com/JCucWV.gif

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

The amperage of the four vacuum cleaners is:
1. Dirt Devil 12.0 amps (no bags needed)
2. Eureka Express 11.5 amps (requires bags)
3. Eureka Rally 10.0 amps (requires bags)
4. Porter Cable wet/dry 4 gallon @ 8.0 amps (I bought this from Costco)

I realize the "amps" turn the motor, where we can presume that the more
amps, the more "power" - but what is the primary determinant of suction?

Is it the amperage?
Is it the geometry of the passages?
Is it the design of the motor vanes?

My main question is whether the suction is "mainly" a question of amperage?


It's all of the above. Since you have all four of them, just try
them out and see which work best.

On Monday, April 3, 2017 at 9:08:30 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
This is a general question about how to choose vacuum cleaner suction by
the specifications (specifically by amperage).
http://i.cubeupload.com/JCucWV.gif

At a garage sale, I picked up three vacuum cleaners for almost nothing
(because my fourth vacuum cleaner isn't all that great on carpets) and
three of the four work fine (the Dirt Devil has a broken belt & roller).

The amperage of the four vacuum cleaners is:
1. Dirt Devil 12.0 amps (no bags needed)
2. Eureka Express 11.5 amps (requires bags)
3. Eureka Rally 10.0 amps (requires bags)
4. Porter Cable wet/dry 4 gallon @ 8.0 amps (I bought this from Costco)

I realize the "amps" turn the motor, where we can presume that the more
amps, the more "power" - but what is the primary determinant of suction?

Is it the amperage?
Is it the geometry of the passages?
Is it the design of the motor vanes?

My main question is whether the suction is "mainly" a question of amperage?


It's all of the above. Since you have all four of them, just try
them out and see which work best.