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  #1   Report Post  
wendi
 
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Default How many coats of primer on pre-stained oak?

I'm planning to repaint my oak cabinets white. They're stained with an
amber-tint now. I'm planning to use a liquid sander to rough up the top
coat, and then use a enamel primer. My question is how many coats of primer
do I need?


  #2   Report Post  
wendi
 
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Default How many coats of primer on pre-stained oak?

Hi Roger,

How is approach #2 easier? Isn't brushing on liquid sandpaper easier than
sanding mechanically?

As for getting the surface super clean, how can you get them dust free with
all that sanding going on? What do you use to clean the surface before the
primer goes on? I was planning to use mineral spirit to give them a final
wipe and prime them immediately before any dust could get on. Do the same
between every coat of paint. BTW, how many coats of paint did you put?
Since the primer is white, would I be able to get away with just one coat of
white paint on top of two coats of primer. I planned to put a brown glaze
over the white paint and water-based polyurethene as the varnish. I've seen
this poly-acrylic, super hard top coat at the hardware store. I don't know
if I should go for that. What did you use as the varnish (or the protective
top finish)?

I don't like the open grain of oak. I'm hoping the primer can fill those
"holes". Would putting more coats of primer do the trick? Why do people
always put two coats of primer anyways? The more the better?

(2) (easier) In order not to breach the clearcoat over our stained oak,

we
just cleaned the varnish over the stain with 409 or fantastic, then

lightly

I see. Basically, you tried to preserve the existing varnish as much as
possible. I don't know what the existing varnish of my cabinets are. I
used to think they're polyurethene (the cabinets are 17yrs old). Then, one
day I had a wet towel left hanging over identical cabinets overnight and the
top varnish just came off exposing bare stained wood. I also did a test
using denated alocohol on a spot for 20min, and the finish turned really
dull. I'm thinking that liquid sanding, hand sanding or cleaning with 409
would just easily remove the finish, thus exposing the stain. If exposing
the stain is the problem, I might as well go with a strong chemical stripper
like Jasco (which claims to remove 6 coats of paint/stain), then I don't
have to deal with sanding. I'm trying to avoid sanding because I'd also
like to paint the inside of the cabinet which are unstained raw oak and MDF.
I don't want the dust to get on the inside.

thx,
-wen


"Roger" wrote in message
news:dLRwc.16229$Sw.2906@attbi_s51...
Two Approaches:
(1) Once you use liquid sandpaper, and the surface is completely dry, you
should use one, or perhaps two coats of stain blocker primer, such as
alcohol or acrylic based Zinzer or Bullseye. Regular primers will not seal
the stain in, if the cabinet clear finish is breached anywhere, and it may
bleed through to the white topcoat over time.
(2) (easier) In order not to breach the clearcoat over our stained oak,

we
just cleaned the varnish over the stain with 409 or fantastic, then

lightly
sanded for better adherence of the primer. The key thing is to get the
surface super clean, grease free, and slightly rough. That was several

years
ago, and the new finish paint looks great. We used Zinzer as a primer and
undercoat.


I'm planning to repaint my oak cabinets white. They're stained with an
amber-tint now. I'm planning to use a liquid sander to rough up the top
coat, and then use a enamel primer. My question is how many coats of

primer
do I need?






  #3   Report Post  
Roger
 
Posts: n/a
Default How many coats of primer on pre-stained oak?

Two Approaches:
(1) Once you use liquid sandpaper, and the surface is completely dry, you
should use one, or perhaps two coats of stain blocker primer, such as
alcohol or acrylic based Zinzer or Bullseye. Regular primers will not seal
the stain in, if the cabinet clear finish is breached anywhere, and it may
bleed through to the white topcoat over time.
(2) (easier) In order not to breach the clearcoat over our stained oak, we
just cleaned the varnish over the stain with 409 or fantastic, then lightly
sanded for better adherence of the primer. The key thing is to get the
surface super clean, grease free, and slightly rough. That was several years
ago, and the new finish paint looks great. We used Zinzer as a primer and
undercoat.


I'm planning to repaint my oak cabinets white. They're stained with an
amber-tint now. I'm planning to use a liquid sander to rough up the top
coat, and then use a enamel primer. My question is how many coats of

primer
do I need?




  #4   Report Post  
Curmudgeon
 
Posts: n/a
Default How many coats of primer on pre-stained oak?

Are you saying there's NO finish on the cabinets now? No poly or "varnish".
Cause the only way to "plug" the grain is to sand down to the BARE wood.
And if you don't know what a "tack rag" is, you'd better find out real
quick.
What a terrible thing to do to a very pretty wood. But, as my daddy used to
say, there's no accounting for taste!



"wendi" wrote in message
news:FASwc.56624$mm1.46135@fed1read06...
Hi Roger,

How is approach #2 easier? Isn't brushing on liquid sandpaper easier than
sanding mechanically?

As for getting the surface super clean, how can you get them dust free

with
all that sanding going on? What do you use to clean the surface before

the
primer goes on? I was planning to use mineral spirit to give them a final
wipe and prime them immediately before any dust could get on. Do the same
between every coat of paint. BTW, how many coats of paint did you put?
Since the primer is white, would I be able to get away with just one coat

of
white paint on top of two coats of primer. I planned to put a brown glaze
over the white paint and water-based polyurethene as the varnish. I've

seen
this poly-acrylic, super hard top coat at the hardware store. I don't

know
if I should go for that. What did you use as the varnish (or the

protective
top finish)?

I don't like the open grain of oak. I'm hoping the primer can fill those
"holes". Would putting more coats of primer do the trick? Why do people
always put two coats of primer anyways? The more the better?

(2) (easier) In order not to breach the clearcoat over our stained oak,

we
just cleaned the varnish over the stain with 409 or fantastic, then

lightly

I see. Basically, you tried to preserve the existing varnish as much as
possible. I don't know what the existing varnish of my cabinets are. I
used to think they're polyurethene (the cabinets are 17yrs old). Then,

one
day I had a wet towel left hanging over identical cabinets overnight and

the
top varnish just came off exposing bare stained wood. I also did a test
using denated alocohol on a spot for 20min, and the finish turned really
dull. I'm thinking that liquid sanding, hand sanding or cleaning with 409
would just easily remove the finish, thus exposing the stain. If exposing
the stain is the problem, I might as well go with a strong chemical

stripper
like Jasco (which claims to remove 6 coats of paint/stain), then I don't
have to deal with sanding. I'm trying to avoid sanding because I'd also
like to paint the inside of the cabinet which are unstained raw oak and

MDF.
I don't want the dust to get on the inside.

thx,
-wen


"Roger" wrote in message
news:dLRwc.16229$Sw.2906@attbi_s51...
Two Approaches:
(1) Once you use liquid sandpaper, and the surface is completely dry,

you
should use one, or perhaps two coats of stain blocker primer, such as
alcohol or acrylic based Zinzer or Bullseye. Regular primers will not

seal
the stain in, if the cabinet clear finish is breached anywhere, and it

may
bleed through to the white topcoat over time.
(2) (easier) In order not to breach the clearcoat over our stained oak,

we
just cleaned the varnish over the stain with 409 or fantastic, then

lightly
sanded for better adherence of the primer. The key thing is to get the
surface super clean, grease free, and slightly rough. That was several

years
ago, and the new finish paint looks great. We used Zinzer as a primer

and
undercoat.


I'm planning to repaint my oak cabinets white. They're stained with

an
amber-tint now. I'm planning to use a liquid sander to rough up the

top
coat, and then use a enamel primer. My question is how many coats of

primer
do I need?








  #5   Report Post  
Alan
 
Posts: n/a
Default How many coats of primer on pre-stained oak?

On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 20:23:53 -0400, "wendi"
wrote:

I'm planning to repaint my oak cabinets white. They're stained with an
amber-tint now. I'm planning to use a liquid sander to rough up the top
coat, and then use a enamel primer. My question is how many coats of primer
do I need?

I used one coat of regular primer and two coats of melamine paint on
mahogany after hand sanding. It adheres well and looks great.


  #6   Report Post  
Roger
 
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Default How many coats of primer on pre-stained oak?



How is approach #2 easier? Isn't brushing on liquid sandpaper easier than
sanding mechanically?


Light sanding takes very little time, and you may even escape cancer. Just
read the warnings on Liq. Sandpaper. It's serious stuff.

What did you use as the varnish (or the protective
top finish)?


We used satin finish semigloss acrylic interior paint.

I see. Basically, you tried to preserve the existing varnish as much as
possible.


The poly varnish on ours was in good shape, and it made no sense to remove
it, as it is an excellent base for paint, once primed.


, I might as well go with a strong chemical stripper
like Jasco (which claims to remove 6 coats of paint/stain), then I don't
have to deal with sanding.


Jasco is another highly volatile chemical soup that is very bad for you.
Just read the label and weep. I use it only for small jobs where prior paint
is way too thick, and hides all detail.

Prime is unlikely to hide grain if the doors were poorly sanded in the first
place. Undercoat is a possibility, after priming. It tends to even out the
surface a small amount.


  #7   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default How many coats of primer on pre-stained oak?

Not quite as easy as that. Once wood is sealed it doesn't accept
typical stains. There are gel stains that reside on the surface that
can be used but not typical stains.

On 8 Jun 2004 11:07:31 -0700, (Childfree Scott)
wrote:

I would sand down to the bare wood and use one coat of primer.
Personally I would never paint wood like that though. If you don't
like the color than you can always stain it a different color them put
your 3 coats of polyeureathane over it.


  #8   Report Post  
Childfree Scott
 
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Default How many coats of primer on pre-stained oak?

I would sand down to the bare wood and use one coat of primer.
Personally I would never paint wood like that though. If you don't
like the color than you can always stain it a different color them put
your 3 coats of polyeureathane over it.
  #9   Report Post  
Alan
 
Posts: n/a
Default How many coats of primer on pre-stained oak?

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:23:23 -0400, "
wrote:

Not quite as easy as that. Once wood is sealed it doesn't accept
typical stains. There are gel stains that reside on the surface that
can be used but not typical stains.

On 8 Jun 2004 11:07:31 -0700, (Childfree Scott)
wrote:

I would sand down to the bare wood and use one coat of primer.
Personally I would never paint wood like that though. If you don't
like the color than you can always stain it a different color them put
your 3 coats of polyeureathane over it.


Besides we much prefer the painted look to the old stained one.
That said, we are moving to a house with medium oak stained ones that
are definitely not going to be painted.
  #10   Report Post  
wendi
 
Posts: n/a
Default oak => too busy for me

Personally I would never paint wood like that though. If you don't

I don't like oak because it's looks too busy and I don't like the open
grain. That's just my personally preference. Having said that, I don't
really like to paint wood in general, even oak. But, these cabinets are
just too massive and overwhelming. I'll paint over 80% of them, and try to
re-stain the cabinets under the U-shape counter. That's the plan. If the
chemical stripping process turns too difficult which means I have to turn to
mechanical sanding, then I'll just paint over them. I don't like sanding,
esp. I don't know if these old veneer cabinets can take the beating.

I would sand down to the bare wood and use one coat of primer.

Only one coat of primer? How about the undercoat?

thx,
-w

"Childfree Scott" wrote in message
om...
I would sand down to the bare wood and use one coat of primer.
Personally I would never paint wood like that though. If you don't
like the color than you can always stain it a different color them put
your 3 coats of polyeureathane over it.





  #11   Report Post  
wendi
 
Posts: n/a
Default How many coats of primer on pre-stained oak?

"Curmudgeon" wrote in message ...
Are you saying there's NO finish on the cabinets now? No poly or "varnish".
Cause the only way to "plug" the grain is to sand down to the BARE wood.

See my prev post (the one that you're replying to). Extracted here
for your convenience...

"I don't know what the existing varnish of my cabinets
are. I used to think they're polyurethene (the cabinets
are 17yrs old). Then, one day I had a wet towel left
hanging over identical cabinets overnight and the
top varnish just came off exposing bare stained wood.
I also did a test using denated alocohol on a spot
for 20min, and the finish turned really dull."

And if you don't know what a "tack rag" is, you'd better find out real
quick.

Is that all's needed, Roger? A dry wipe?

What a terrible thing to do to a very pretty wood. But, as my daddy used to
say, there's no accounting for taste!

Oak is too busy for me - okay as an accent piece; too overwhelming as
the dominant kitchen cabinets. It's just a personal preference. Your
daddy is right. I can say the same thing to you if you know what I
mean I don't like painting wood in general, but guess what there's
no one single formula; different solution for different situation. If
you allow yourself to be open minded, you'd open yourself to more
possibilities. Something that your daddy didn't tell you.
  #12   Report Post  
wendi
 
Posts: n/a
Default How many coats of primer on pre-stained oak?

Hi Roger,

Light sanding takes very little time, and you may even escape cancer.

My cabinets have a lot of trims. It's kinda hard to sand; also the
possibility of over sanding too.

We used satin finish semigloss acrylic interior paint.

How about the protective top coat - the varnish?

Prime is unlikely to hide grain if the doors were poorly sanded in the first
place. Undercoat is a possibility, after priming. It tends to even out the
surface a small amount.


I'm confused. What do you use as the undercoat - paint or primer?

thx,
-w
  #13   Report Post  
xrongor
 
Posts: n/a
Default oak => too busy for me


"wendi" wrote in message
news:L3yxc.8428$1c4.258@fed1read06...
Personally I would never paint wood like that though. If you don't

I don't like oak because it's looks too busy and I don't like the open
grain. That's just my personally preference. Having said that, I don't
really like to paint wood in general, even oak. But, these cabinets are
just too massive and overwhelming. I'll paint over 80% of them, and try

to
re-stain the cabinets under the U-shape counter. That's the plan. If the
chemical stripping process turns too difficult which means I have to turn

to
mechanical sanding, then I'll just paint over them. I don't like sanding,
esp. I don't know if these old veneer cabinets can take the beating.

I would sand down to the bare wood and use one coat of primer.

Only one coat of primer? How about the undercoat?


if you ever bother to get primer out for anything, and use less than two
coats, you are just asking to have to redo it soon. always two coats of
primer. more as required.

randy


  #14   Report Post  
John Willis
 
Posts: n/a
Default oak => too busy for me

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 01:56:07 -0600, "xrongor"
scribbled this interesting note:


"wendi" wrote in message
news:L3yxc.8428$1c4.258@fed1read06...
Personally I would never paint wood like that though. If you don't

I don't like oak because it's looks too busy and I don't like the open
grain. That's just my personally preference. Having said that, I don't
really like to paint wood in general, even oak. But, these cabinets are
just too massive and overwhelming. I'll paint over 80% of them, and try

to
re-stain the cabinets under the U-shape counter. That's the plan. If the
chemical stripping process turns too difficult which means I have to turn

to
mechanical sanding, then I'll just paint over them. I don't like sanding,
esp. I don't know if these old veneer cabinets can take the beating.

I would sand down to the bare wood and use one coat of primer.

Only one coat of primer? How about the undercoat?


if you ever bother to get primer out for anything, and use less than two
coats, you are just asking to have to redo it soon. always two coats of
primer. more as required.

randy


Sand, clean, prime, sand, clean, prime, sand, clean, prime, sand,
clean, enamel, sand, clean, enamel, sand, extra clean, finish coat of
enamel. Do this correctly and with oil based enamel and you end up
with a super clean and smooth finish that is very tough and durable.
Done this way you can even polish out minor scratches. If you use
latex enamel then polishing and scrubbing is out of the question.


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
  #16   Report Post  
xrongor
 
Posts: n/a
Default oak => too busy for me

it also gets easier every time when you do this. the first prime coat and
sand are most of the work. the last coat will practically jump right off
the brush.

randy

Sand, clean, prime, sand, clean, prime, sand, clean, prime, sand,
clean, enamel, sand, clean, enamel, sand, extra clean, finish coat of
enamel. Do this correctly and with oil based enamel and you end up
with a super clean and smooth finish that is very tough and durable.
Done this way you can even polish out minor scratches. If you use
latex enamel then polishing and scrubbing is out of the question.


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)



  #17   Report Post  
John Willis
 
Posts: n/a
Default oak => too busy for me

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 20:26:02 -0600, "xrongor"
scribbled this interesting note:

Sand, clean, prime, sand, clean, prime, sand, clean, prime, sand,
clean, enamel, sand, clean, enamel, sand, extra clean, finish coat of
enamel. Do this correctly and with oil based enamel and you end up
with a super clean and smooth finish that is very tough and durable.
Done this way you can even polish out minor scratches. If you use
latex enamel then polishing and scrubbing is out of the question.


it also gets easier every time when you do this. the first prime coat and
sand are most of the work. the last coat will practically jump right off
the brush.


This is true. The key here is to make the surface as smooth and clean
as possible to begin with. Each coat you apply fills in smaller and
smaller voids while each sanding dresses down the high spots (I know
you already know this randy) and the cleaning after each sanding
removes as much of the dust as possible. That's why I like to spray
all my oil based enamel paint whenever possible. I feel a sprayer,
used properly, gives a smoother application and the compressed air is
a wonderful tool for removing all the dust.

I've got some shelves in our living room I painted in just this way
(although I probably used one or two more coats of primer, just to be
sure) and the finish is wonderful. Looks almost like glass. It would
look like glass if I took the time to apply a light polish and wax
job, but they are, after all, only book shelves!:~)


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
  #19   Report Post  
wendi
 
Posts: n/a
Default oak => open grain => smooth finish?

Sand, clean, prime, sand, clean, prime, sand, clean, prime, sand,
clean, enamel, sand, clean, enamel, sand, extra clean, finish coat of
enamel. Do this correctly and with oil based enamel and you end up
with a super clean and smooth finish that is very tough and durable.
Done this way you can even polish out minor scratches. If you use
latex enamel then polishing and scrubbing is out of the question.


I thought you can sand/polish water-based (latex/acrylic) paint? Do you use
oil-based primer, paint and varnish all the way through?

As for acheiveing a smooth finish, is that possible with oak because of the
open grains?

-w


  #20   Report Post  
wendi
 
Posts: n/a
Default spray enamel

all my oil based enamel paint whenever possible. I feel a sprayer,
used properly, gives a smoother application and the compressed air is
a wonderful tool for removing all the dust.

That's a good tip. I can set up a paint booth in my garage and spray the
doors. As for the rest of the cabinet (which I'm not going to remove), can
I just paint (brush or roller) them. I'd rather not do any spraying in the
kitchen. Would it look really odd if the doors are sprayed, but not the
rest.

-w




  #21   Report Post  
John Willis
 
Posts: n/a
Default How many coats of primer on pre-stained oak?

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:06:55 -0400, "wendi"
scribbled this interesting
note:

Prime is unlikely to hide grain if the doors were poorly sanded in the

first
place. Undercoat is a possibility, after priming. It tends to even out

the
surface a small amount.

I'm confused. What do you use as the undercoat - paint or primer?


Sand, clean, prime, sand, clean, prime, sand, clean, prime, sand,
clean, enamel, sand, clean, enamel, sand, extra clean, finish coat of
enamel. Do this correctly and with oil based enamel and you end up
with a super clean and smooth finish that is very tough and durable.
Done this way you can even polish out minor scratches. If you use
latex enamel then polishing and scrubbing is out of the question.


Thx John. Oil based enamel varnish over water-based paint and primer is
okay? I think the other way around is not. -wen


On interior woodwork I dislike using any water based paints, be they
primer or enamel. Water based paints do not sand like oil based
paints. It is difficult to get a great finish with water based
interior enamels. Yes, oil based paints are harder to clean up after.
Brushes can't simply be washed out in the kitchen sink. But you can
allow the paint thinner you use to clean the brushes to sit for a
while and the paint will settle out and you are left with clean
thinner with which to clean the brushes with again. (Or clean your
spray equipment with again if you have that kind of equipment
available.)

In your position what I would do is this:

Remove the doors to your cabinets. Take them outside and strip them.
Some of the stain will remain and that's ok. Sand them very well and
clean them very well.

Give the cabinet facings a good scrubbing to remove any residues like
grease and oil. Sand them very well and clean them to remove the dust.
Most likely you will go through most of the old varnish while sanding.
The key here is to have a clean and smooth surface with which to work.
Any oil residues will not paint properly with oil based paints so it
is very important that things be clean before you begin your painting.

Follow the above painting procedures for the cabinet facings. In your
garage or some other covered area lay out some work space, possibly
some plywood on a couple of saw horses or on a clean work bench, and
on one side at a time follow the above painting procedure on the
doors. I would prime (with oil based primer) one side and let it dry
completely. Prime the other side and let it dry completely. Sand and
clean and repeat one or two more times. The same with the oil based
enamel paint. Then I would buy new door hinges and pulls (the old ones
would look rather dingy up against this nice new paint job) and
remount the doors-carefully so as not to mar the new paint job. If you
don't have any kind of paint sprayer equipment then learn how to
properly thin the paint so it flows well out of a brush. Too thin and
it will run everywhere. Too thick and it is hard to work with. You may
also think about adding some Japan Drier to the thinned paint, which
accelerates the drying process so you will be able to sand and repaint
in one to two days instead of several days. Be careful to keep your
thinned paint separate from your un-thinned paint-you can buy a couple
of new, empty paint cans where you buy your paints (and I would
recommend any stand alone paint supplier over any of the Big-Box
Stores, you will get better service and better paint.)

This is not a small amount of work. A professional would want a rather
large amount of money to perform the job. Fortunately for you most of
the work is simple elbow grease, properly applied, of course. A high
quality paint job takes time and there really is no way to rush it. If
you take the time to do it right and do it well you will get years of
great service out of a good paint job. Rush it and you will never be
happy with the results and it will take longer to re-do the job later.

A note on sanding: I've found best results using a rather coarse paper
with my first sanding, an 80 or 100 grit, depending on the wood and
conditions. Successive sandings should graduate to finer and finer
grits since with each application of primer and finish paint you are
making the surface smoother and smoother. As a previous poster
mentioned, if brushing oil based paint, the final top coat almost
applies itself!:~)


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
  #22   Report Post  
wendi
 
Posts: n/a
Default How many coats of primer on pre-stained oak?

Thx John. I don't mind cleaning oil paint brushes, it the waiting time that
bothers me. It takes too long to dry. I want to re-paint all the cabinets
in one long weekend. The only time I see japan drier is at the art supply
store which usually charges 5-10 times more than the hardware store. You
know where to get them cheap?

Yes, I'm replacing all the knobs and pulls, but the hinges. The hinges are
exposed, they're naturally aged with this old bronze patina. Some of the
hinges were aligned properly. So, I have to put up the holes and realign
them. I hope the put are strong enough to hold screws.

I don't have any spray equipment. I was planning to use the Antique Ivory
kit from Rustoleum. I think I can get it in either spray or can. So, I was
just going to spray the doors (in the garage) and brush/roll the rest.

I did get a quote for the job which replaces all the door, and refaces the
rest of the cabinets with wood veneer. The store told me that it's not
worthy to repaint them; it's too labor intensive. For the same amount of
money, you can get new doors and new facing. So, here I'm doing it myself.

Now that I know how extensive re-painting wood is, I might consider
re-staining them instead, or giving them a color-wash or color stain. I
thought painting is easier, but it's not. Staining seems to be easier, only
one coat of oil-based stain and no primer and no sanding too (just use the
heavy duty Jasco to strip the stain).

thx,
-w

"John Willis" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:06:55 -0400, "wendi"
scribbled this interesting
note:

Prime is unlikely to hide grain if the doors were poorly sanded in

the
first
place. Undercoat is a possibility, after priming. It tends to even

out
the
surface a small amount.

I'm confused. What do you use as the undercoat - paint or primer?

Sand, clean, prime, sand, clean, prime, sand, clean, prime, sand,
clean, enamel, sand, clean, enamel, sand, extra clean, finish coat of
enamel. Do this correctly and with oil based enamel and you end up
with a super clean and smooth finish that is very tough and durable.
Done this way you can even polish out minor scratches. If you use
latex enamel then polishing and scrubbing is out of the question.


Thx John. Oil based enamel varnish over water-based paint and primer is
okay? I think the other way around is not. -wen


On interior woodwork I dislike using any water based paints, be they
primer or enamel. Water based paints do not sand like oil based
paints. It is difficult to get a great finish with water based
interior enamels. Yes, oil based paints are harder to clean up after.
Brushes can't simply be washed out in the kitchen sink. But you can
allow the paint thinner you use to clean the brushes to sit for a
while and the paint will settle out and you are left with clean
thinner with which to clean the brushes with again. (Or clean your
spray equipment with again if you have that kind of equipment
available.)

In your position what I would do is this:

Remove the doors to your cabinets. Take them outside and strip them.
Some of the stain will remain and that's ok. Sand them very well and
clean them very well.

Give the cabinet facings a good scrubbing to remove any residues like
grease and oil. Sand them very well and clean them to remove the dust.
Most likely you will go through most of the old varnish while sanding.
The key here is to have a clean and smooth surface with which to work.
Any oil residues will not paint properly with oil based paints so it
is very important that things be clean before you begin your painting.

Follow the above painting procedures for the cabinet facings. In your
garage or some other covered area lay out some work space, possibly
some plywood on a couple of saw horses or on a clean work bench, and
on one side at a time follow the above painting procedure on the
doors. I would prime (with oil based primer) one side and let it dry
completely. Prime the other side and let it dry completely. Sand and
clean and repeat one or two more times. The same with the oil based
enamel paint. Then I would buy new door hinges and pulls (the old ones
would look rather dingy up against this nice new paint job) and
remount the doors-carefully so as not to mar the new paint job. If you
don't have any kind of paint sprayer equipment then learn how to
properly thin the paint so it flows well out of a brush. Too thin and
it will run everywhere. Too thick and it is hard to work with. You may
also think about adding some Japan Drier to the thinned paint, which
accelerates the drying process so you will be able to sand and repaint
in one to two days instead of several days. Be careful to keep your
thinned paint separate from your un-thinned paint-you can buy a couple
of new, empty paint cans where you buy your paints (and I would
recommend any stand alone paint supplier over any of the Big-Box
Stores, you will get better service and better paint.)

This is not a small amount of work. A professional would want a rather
large amount of money to perform the job. Fortunately for you most of
the work is simple elbow grease, properly applied, of course. A high
quality paint job takes time and there really is no way to rush it. If
you take the time to do it right and do it well you will get years of
great service out of a good paint job. Rush it and you will never be
happy with the results and it will take longer to re-do the job later.

A note on sanding: I've found best results using a rather coarse paper
with my first sanding, an 80 or 100 grit, depending on the wood and
conditions. Successive sandings should graduate to finer and finer
grits since with each application of primer and finish paint you are
making the surface smoother and smoother. As a previous poster
mentioned, if brushing oil based paint, the final top coat almost
applies itself!:~)


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)



  #23   Report Post  
John Willis
 
Posts: n/a
Default How many coats of primer on pre-stained oak?

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:16:31 -0400, "wendi"
scribbled this interesting
note:

Thx John. I don't mind cleaning oil paint brushes, it the waiting time that
bothers me. It takes too long to dry. I want to re-paint all the cabinets
in one long weekend. The only time I see japan drier is at the art supply
store which usually charges 5-10 times more than the hardware store. You
know where to get them cheap?


Paint stores. Even Home Depot has Japan Drier.

Yes, I'm replacing all the knobs and pulls, but the hinges. The hinges are
exposed, they're naturally aged with this old bronze patina. Some of the
hinges were aligned properly. So, I have to put up the holes and realign
them. I hope the put are strong enough to hold screws.


Shape and insert small bits of wood into the holes. Put wood glue on
them first. They will hold. For the small holes from cabinet door
hinge screws I sometimes just use toothpicks. The thick portion. Dab a
little wood glue on it, put it into the hole, install the hinge. It
will hold quite well.


I don't have any spray equipment. I was planning to use the Antique Ivory
kit from Rustoleum. I think I can get it in either spray or can. So, I was
just going to spray the doors (in the garage) and brush/roll the rest.


It would be fine to use the rattle cans. Just prime and paint
everything as outlined in the earlier post. It may take you longer
than one weekend, but in the long run the extra effort would be well
worth it in a better job that lasts longer.


I did get a quote for the job which replaces all the door, and refaces the
rest of the cabinets with wood veneer. The store told me that it's not
worthy to repaint them; it's too labor intensive. For the same amount of
money, you can get new doors and new facing. So, here I'm doing it myself.


It all depends on what you want. And yes, it is labor intensive.


Now that I know how extensive re-painting wood is, I might consider
re-staining them instead, or giving them a color-wash or color stain. I
thought painting is easier, but it's not. Staining seems to be easier, only
one coat of oil-based stain and no primer and no sanding too (just use the
heavy duty Jasco to strip the stain).


A good clean sanding job, a stain touch up, sanding sealer, a very
light sanding, a good clean up, and three coats of a high quality
varnish, sanding between each coat, is easier and does indeed take
less time and effort. But you'll notice that this too takes a fair
amount of elbow grease as well???

--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
  #24   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default How many coats of primer on pre-stained oak?

I've switched from match sticks to toothpicks and now use bamboo
skewers to plug screw holes.I feel the bamboo has better holding
characteristics for screw threads. Ensure the glue has cured to avoid
pulling the plugs out.

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:46:32 -0500, John Willis
wrote:

Shape and insert small bits of wood into the holes. Put wood glue on
them first. They will hold. For the small holes from cabinet door
hinge screws I sometimes just use toothpicks. The thick portion. Dab a
little wood glue on it, put it into the hole, install the hinge. It
will hold quite well.


  #25   Report Post  
wendi
 
Posts: n/a
Default sanding sealer before or after?

"John Willis" wrote in message
...
Shape and insert small bits of wood into the holes. Put wood glue on
them first. They will hold. For the small holes from cabinet door
hinge screws I sometimes just use toothpicks. The thick portion. Dab a
little wood glue on it, put it into the hole, install the hinge. It
will hold quite well.

So, no wood putty at all? Just fill the hole with wood glue and 5,6 pieces
of toothpicks? I thought wood glue shrinks more than putty?

A good clean sanding job, a stain touch up, sanding sealer, a very
light sanding, a good clean up, and three coats of a high quality
varnish, sanding between each coat, is easier and does indeed take
less time and effort. But you'll notice that this too takes a fair
amount of elbow grease as well???

John... I wasn't sure if I needed sanding sealer, I thought that is only
for bare wood. Anyways, while looking it up, I find this article from
Lowes -
(http://www.easy2.com/cm/lowe/ht_inde...ge_id=35690552). It tells you
to apply the sealer before staining which doesn't make sense to me. If the
purpose of the sealer is to prevent the stain from bleeding into the
topcoat, then shouldn't you apply the block (in this case the sealer)
inbetween the stain and the topcoat (in this case the varnish); just like
the order you described. Confused???

In addition, I think I'll apply wood conditioner. I was surprise to find a
water-based wood conditioner for water based paint from MinWax
(http://www.minwax.org/Products/woodp...r-prestain.cfm). How
interesting that a water-based product (which usually raises grains) could
prevent grain raising.

thx,
-wen





  #26   Report Post  
wendi
 
Posts: n/a
Default bamboo skewers

Thank you! Another good idea.

wrote in message
...
I've switched from match sticks to toothpicks and now use bamboo
skewers to plug screw holes.I feel the bamboo has better holding
characteristics for screw threads. Ensure the glue has cured to avoid
pulling the plugs out.




  #27   Report Post  
John Willis
 
Posts: n/a
Default sanding sealer before or after?

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 01:56:25 -0400, "wendi"
scribbled this interesting
note:

"John Willis" wrote in message
.. .
Shape and insert small bits of wood into the holes. Put wood glue on
them first. They will hold. For the small holes from cabinet door
hinge screws I sometimes just use toothpicks. The thick portion. Dab a
little wood glue on it, put it into the hole, install the hinge. It
will hold quite well.

So, no wood putty at all? Just fill the hole with wood glue and 5,6 pieces
of toothpicks? I thought wood glue shrinks more than putty?


No wood putty. The glue and the bits of added wood will hold.


A good clean sanding job, a stain touch up, sanding sealer, a very
light sanding, a good clean up, and three coats of a high quality
varnish, sanding between each coat, is easier and does indeed take
less time and effort. But you'll notice that this too takes a fair
amount of elbow grease as well???

John... I wasn't sure if I needed sanding sealer,



Sanding sealer is used after the stain. It raises the grain so that a
light sanding (and I mean light as too much will cause you to go
through the new stain back down to bare wood and you'll have to start
all over again) smooths it out completely and less sanding is needed
between coats of varnish. Sanding sealer is easier to sand than
varnish and dries quickly. You could think of it as a varnish primer.

--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
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