On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 23:56:03 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/22/2016 8:49 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 12:00:52 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 8/20/2016 9:07 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Muggles:
A non career politician who is an extremely successful and savvy
businessman is very capable of learning the job.


A recurrent theme that I hear is that Trump's personality is such that
he does *not* take advice from others.... and the ability to hear
others' views and take others' advice is generally considered to be a
critical function for the POTUS.

Witness his inability to stay on-message/on-script when making
speeches..... against the advice of those around him.


He'll learn how things get done in D.C.



I just don't want to be sitting in a worldwide depression and possibly
the ashes of our nuclear destruction in 2020, when Trump's still learning.
He's clearly demonstrated a total inability to learn how to campaign,
he and his campaign are a total mess.

You do realize that there is still a House and Senate involved in how
our government is run, right??
And the world is to take solace in that????
Brushfiresd are not an issue in California - we have fire departments
and waterr bombers - and - oh yes - fire insurance. No worray about
brush fires, start a campfire in the middle of the scrubland and walk
away.

Same thing as electing a dangerous total idiot as president and
counting on Concress and Senate to mitigate the damage.

On 8/23/2016 12:10 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 23:56:03 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/22/2016 8:49 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 12:00:52 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 8/20/2016 9:07 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Muggles:
A non career politician who is an extremely successful and savvy
businessman is very capable of learning the job.


A recurrent theme that I hear is that Trump's personality is such that
he does *not* take advice from others.... and the ability to hear
others' views and take others' advice is generally considered to be a
critical function for the POTUS.

Witness his inability to stay on-message/on-script when making
speeches..... against the advice of those around him.


He'll learn how things get done in D.C.



I just don't want to be sitting in a worldwide depression and possibly
the ashes of our nuclear destruction in 2020, when Trump's still learning.
He's clearly demonstrated a total inability to learn how to campaign,
he and his campaign are a total mess.

You do realize that there is still a House and Senate involved in how
our government is run, right??
And the world is to take solace in that????
Brushfiresd are not an issue in California - we have fire departments
and waterr bombers - and - oh yes - fire insurance. No worray about
brush fires, start a campfire in the middle of the scrubland and walk
away.

Same thing as electing a dangerous total idiot as president and
counting on Concress and Senate to mitigate the damage.



The problem with your statement is that Trump isn't an idiot.

--
Maggie

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 12:50:52 PM UTC-5, Muggles wrote:
On 8/23/2016 12:10 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 23:56:03 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/22/2016 8:49 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 12:00:52 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 8/20/2016 9:07 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Muggles:
A non career politician who is an extremely successful and savvy
businessman is very capable of learning the job.

A recurrent theme that I hear is that Trump's personality is such that
he does *not* take advice from others.... and the ability to hear
others' views and take others' advice is generally considered to be a
critical function for the POTUS.

Witness his inability to stay on-message/on-script when making
speeches..... against the advice of those around him.

He'll learn how things get done in D.C.

I just don't want to be sitting in a worldwide depression and possibly
the ashes of our nuclear destruction in 2020, when Trump's still learning.
He's clearly demonstrated a total inability to learn how to campaign,
he and his campaign are a total mess.

You do realize that there is still a House and Senate involved in how
our government is run, right??
And the world is to take solace in that????
Brushfiresd are not an issue in California - we have fire departments
and waterr bombers - and - oh yes - fire insurance. No worray about
brush fires, start a campfire in the middle of the scrubland and walk
away.

Same thing as electing a dangerous total idiot as president and
counting on Concress and Senate to mitigate the damage.

The problem with your statement is that Trump isn't an idiot.
--
Maggie

If you must be an idiot to become a billionaire, I'm ****ed off because I got an education and I'm not wealthy. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Po Monster

On 8/23/2016 12:57 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 12:50:52 PM UTC-5, Muggles wrote:
On 8/23/2016 12:10 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 23:56:03 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/22/2016 8:49 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 12:00:52 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 8/20/2016 9:07 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Muggles:
A non career politician who is an extremely successful and savvy
businessman is very capable of learning the job.

A recurrent theme that I hear is that Trump's personality is such that
he does *not* take advice from others.... and the ability to hear
others' views and take others' advice is generally considered to be a
critical function for the POTUS.

Witness his inability to stay on-message/on-script when making
speeches..... against the advice of those around him.

He'll learn how things get done in D.C.

I just don't want to be sitting in a worldwide depression and possibly
the ashes of our nuclear destruction in 2020, when Trump's still learning.
He's clearly demonstrated a total inability to learn how to campaign,
he and his campaign are a total mess.

You do realize that there is still a House and Senate involved in how
our government is run, right??
And the world is to take solace in that????
Brushfiresd are not an issue in California - we have fire departments
and waterr bombers - and - oh yes - fire insurance. No worray about
brush fires, start a campfire in the middle of the scrubland and walk
away.

Same thing as electing a dangerous total idiot as president and
counting on Concress and Senate to mitigate the damage.

The problem with your statement is that Trump isn't an idiot.
--
Maggie

If you must be an idiot to become a billionaire, I'm ****ed off because I got an education and I'm not wealthy. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Po Monster


yeah!

--
Maggie

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:50:50 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 12:10 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 23:56:03 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/22/2016 8:49 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 12:00:52 AM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 8/20/2016 9:07 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Muggles:
A non career politician who is an extremely successful and savvy
businessman is very capable of learning the job.


A recurrent theme that I hear is that Trump's personality is such that
he does *not* take advice from others.... and the ability to hear
others' views and take others' advice is generally considered to be a
critical function for the POTUS.

Witness his inability to stay on-message/on-script when making
speeches..... against the advice of those around him.


He'll learn how things get done in D.C.



I just don't want to be sitting in a worldwide depression and possibly
the ashes of our nuclear destruction in 2020, when Trump's still learning.
He's clearly demonstrated a total inability to learn how to campaign,
he and his campaign are a total mess.

You do realize that there is still a House and Senate involved in how
our government is run, right??
And the world is to take solace in that????
Brushfiresd are not an issue in California - we have fire departments
and waterr bombers - and - oh yes - fire insurance. No worray about
brush fires, start a campfire in the middle of the scrubland and walk
away.

Same thing as electing a dangerous total idiot as president and
counting on Concress and Senate to mitigate the damage.



The problem with your statement is that Trump isn't an idiot.


An intelligent idiot perhaps - but still an idiot - and I'm not even
sure of the "perhaps" If idiot is not the proper word, berhaps fool is
closer.

On 8/23/2016 3:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:50:50 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 12:10 PM, wrote:


Same thing as electing a dangerous total idiot as president and
counting on Concress and Senate to mitigate the damage.


The problem with your statement is that Trump isn't an idiot.


An intelligent idiot perhaps - but still an idiot - and I'm not even
sure of the "perhaps" If idiot is not the proper word, berhaps fool is
closer.


The man isn't even close to being an idiot, and to get to where he is
today takes a great amount of intelligence, too.

--
Maggie

On 8/23/2016 5:16 PM, Muggles wrote:

An intelligent idiot perhaps - but still an idiot - and I'm not even
sure of the "perhaps" If idiot is not the proper word, berhaps fool is
closer.


The man isn't even close to being an idiot, and to get to where he is
today takes a great amount of intelligence, too.


Yes he is well educated and built a rather large business. but that does
not mean he does not say dumb things. Just to get a reation. ruth not
needed.

On 8/23/2016 5:26 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/23/2016 5:16 PM, Muggles wrote:

An intelligent idiot perhaps - but still an idiot - and I'm not even
sure of the "perhaps" If idiot is not the proper word, berhaps fool is
closer.


The man isn't even close to being an idiot, and to get to where he is
today takes a great amount of intelligence, too.


Yes he is well educated and built a rather large business. but that does
not mean he does not say dumb things. Just to get a reation. ruth not
needed.

Everybody says dumb things, and it usually depends on who is doing the
hearing as to whether it's judged as being "dumb".

--
Maggie

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:16:22 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 3:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:50:50 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 12:10 PM, wrote:


Same thing as electing a dangerous total idiot as president and
counting on Concress and Senate to mitigate the damage.


The problem with your statement is that Trump isn't an idiot.


An intelligent idiot perhaps - but still an idiot - and I'm not even
sure of the "perhaps" If idiot is not the proper word, berhaps fool is
closer.


The man isn't even close to being an idiot, and to get to where he is
today takes a great amount of intelligence, too.
If I had inherited over 75 million dollars after having been put
through expensive colleges by rich parents I could be "very
successful" too.

You might even manage it.

On 8/23/2016 7:18 PM, Muggles wrote:

Yes he is well educated and built a rather large business. but that does
not mean he does not say dumb things. Just to get a reaction. Truth not
needed.

Everybody says dumb things, and it usually depends on who is doing the
hearing as to whether it's judged as being "dumb".


But most people are smart enough to STFU after one time. How's that
wall coming?

On 8/23/2016 6:53 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:16:22 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 3:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:50:50 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 12:10 PM, wrote:


Same thing as electing a dangerous total idiot as president and
counting on Concress and Senate to mitigate the damage.


The problem with your statement is that Trump isn't an idiot.


An intelligent idiot perhaps - but still an idiot - and I'm not even
sure of the "perhaps" If idiot is not the proper word, berhaps fool is
closer.



The man isn't even close to being an idiot, and to get to where he is
today takes a great amount of intelligence, too.

If I had inherited over 75 million dollars after having been put
through expensive colleges by rich parents I could be "very
successful" too.

You might even manage it.


Many people if put in the position of inheriting millions of dollars
can't manage it and end up broke.

Trump isn't broke.

--
Maggie

On 8/23/2016 7:04 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/23/2016 7:18 PM, Muggles wrote:

Yes he is well educated and built a rather large business. but that does
not mean he does not say dumb things. Just to get a reaction. Truth not
needed.

Everybody says dumb things, and it usually depends on who is doing the
hearing as to whether it's judged as being "dumb".


But most people are smart enough to STFU after one time. How's that
wall coming?

The only people I've ever heard of who talk about 'a wall and shutting
up' are people who have as much trouble being quiet when it comes to
sharing their own opinions.

--
Maggie

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:12:58 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 6:53 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:16:22 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 3:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:50:50 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 12:10 PM, wrote:


Same thing as electing a dangerous total idiot as president and
counting on Concress and Senate to mitigate the damage.


The problem with your statement is that Trump isn't an idiot.


An intelligent idiot perhaps - but still an idiot - and I'm not even
sure of the "perhaps" If idiot is not the proper word, berhaps fool is
closer.



The man isn't even close to being an idiot, and to get to where he is
today takes a great amount of intelligence, too.

If I had inherited over 75 million dollars after having been put
through expensive colleges by rich parents I could be "very
successful" too.

You might even manage it.


Many people if put in the position of inheriting millions of dollars
can't manage it and end up broke.

Trump isn't broke.
He might be if he paid all his bills. He has been broke several times
and no-one, including the donald himself, really knows what he is
worth, financially.

On 8/23/2016 10:29 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:12:58 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 6:53 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:16:22 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 3:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:50:50 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 12:10 PM, wrote:


Same thing as electing a dangerous total idiot as president and
counting on Concress and Senate to mitigate the damage.


The problem with your statement is that Trump isn't an idiot.


An intelligent idiot perhaps - but still an idiot - and I'm not even
sure of the "perhaps" If idiot is not the proper word, berhaps fool is
closer.



The man isn't even close to being an idiot, and to get to where he is
today takes a great amount of intelligence, too.

If I had inherited over 75 million dollars after having been put
through expensive colleges by rich parents I could be "very
successful" too.

You might even manage it.


Many people if put in the position of inheriting millions of dollars
can't manage it and end up broke.

Trump isn't broke.

He might be if he paid all his bills. He has been broke several times
and no-one, including the donald himself, really knows what he is
worth, financially.


Hey, I can't fault him for whatever his financial worth is - he's doing
better than a lot of other people I can think of, including me.

--
Maggie

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 11:12:55 PM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 8/23/2016 6:53 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:16:22 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 3:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:50:50 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 12:10 PM, wrote:


Same thing as electing a dangerous total idiot as president and
counting on Concress and Senate to mitigate the damage.


The problem with your statement is that Trump isn't an idiot.


An intelligent idiot perhaps - but still an idiot - and I'm not even
sure of the "perhaps" If idiot is not the proper word, berhaps fool is
closer.



The man isn't even close to being an idiot, and to get to where he is
today takes a great amount of intelligence, too.

If I had inherited over 75 million dollars after having been put
through expensive colleges by rich parents I could be "very
successful" too.

You might even manage it.


Many people if put in the position of inheriting millions of dollars
can't manage it and end up broke.

Trump isn't broke.

--
Maggie

How do we know? He won't release his taxes? We don't even know how
much money he makes. It's possible it's all a Ponzi scheme. Bernie
Madoff, a month before his collapse, everyone thought he was a rich,
standup guy too. He got away with it for 25 years, if he can do that,
surely Trump could have a net worth of zero. Trump has even bragged
about having a negative net worth of $1 bil at points in his life,
so why isn't it possible now?

On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 06:34:58 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Trump isn't broke.

--
Maggie

How do we know? He won't release his taxes? We don't even know how
much money he makes. It's possible it's all a Ponzi scheme. Bernie
Madoff, a month before his collapse, everyone thought he was a rich,
standup guy too. He got away with it for 25 years, if he can do that,
surely Trump could have a net worth of zero. Trump has even bragged
about having a negative net worth of $1 bil at points in his life,
so why isn't it possible now?

Trump does have some wealth, simply because of his brick and mortar
holdings and the revenue they generate. I suspect his reluctance to
release his taxes is simply because he is not really paying any on
that income. It is pretty easy to expense away income in the real
estate business. Things like that 757 he flies around on are 100%
deductible. (just like the Hummer you see builder's wives hopping out
of at the supermarket)
The questionable part of Trump's wealth claims so the value of his
"brand" and we do not know how this political adventure will affect
that. You might see Carl Ichan spending the money to remove "Trump"
from the casino we own and that is something they have not done up
until now. It is not a cheap process. (everything in that place from
the linens to the chips says Trump)

Per :
He might be if he paid all his bills.

Want some amusement?

Google "Trump Discount".
--
Pete Cresswell

On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 10:36:14 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 06:34:58 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Trump isn't broke.

--
Maggie

How do we know? He won't release his taxes? We don't even know how
much money he makes. It's possible it's all a Ponzi scheme. Bernie
Madoff, a month before his collapse, everyone thought he was a rich,
standup guy too. He got away with it for 25 years, if he can do that,
surely Trump could have a net worth of zero. Trump has even bragged
about having a negative net worth of $1 bil at points in his life,
so why isn't it possible now?

Trump does have some wealth, simply because of his brick and mortar
holdings and the revenue they generate.

Not necessarily true. He could be mortaged to the hilt and have
claims against his holdings, nobody knows.



I suspect his reluctance to
release his taxes is simply because he is not really paying any on
that income. It is pretty easy to expense away income in the real
estate business. Things like that 757 he flies around on are 100%
deductible. (just like the Hummer you see builder's wives hopping out
of at the supermarket)

I agree, that what he doesn't want anyone to see is what his effective
tax rate is, because it's low. And he doesn't want people to see how
little he's donated to charity, relative to his $10 bil claimed status.



The questionable part of Trump's wealth claims so the value of his
"brand" and we do not know how this political adventure will affect
that. You might see Carl Ichan spending the money to remove "Trump"
from the casino we own and that is something they have not done up
until now. It is not a cheap process. (everything in that place from
the linens to the chips says Trump)

No worries. Icahn announced a few weeks ago that he's closing the
Taj Mahal after Labor Day. The other one, Trump Plaza is already
closed. That ends that. Funny how Trump's buddy chose to shut the
damn thing 8 weeks before the election. Even though Trump hasn't
got anything to do with it anymore, hasn't for years, the media
will be there showing the laid off employees, the closing, the drams
with Trump's name still on it.

trader_4 posted for all of us...



How do we know? He won't release his taxes? We don't even know how
much money he makes. It's possible it's all a Ponzi scheme. Bernie
Madoff, a month before his collapse, everyone thought he was a rich,
standup guy too. He got away with it for 25 years, if he can do that,
surely Trump could have a net worth of zero. Trump has even bragged
about having a negative net worth of $1 bil at points in his life,
so why isn't it possible now?


Trump stated several times he cannot release his taxes because he is being
audited. It makes sense that the IRS would make him a target-for several
reasons.

--
Tekkie

Tekkie® formulated the question :
trader_4 posted for all of us...



How do we know? He won't release his taxes? We don't even know how
much money he makes. It's possible it's all a Ponzi scheme. Bernie
Madoff, a month before his collapse, everyone thought he was a rich,
standup guy too. He got away with it for 25 years, if he can do that,
surely Trump could have a net worth of zero. Trump has even bragged
about having a negative net worth of $1 bil at points in his life,
so why isn't it possible now?


Trump stated several times he cannot release his taxes because he is being
audited. It makes sense that the IRS would make him a target-for several
reasons.

I hadn't heard that. What I *did* hear is him saying he wouldn't.

IMO, that's his prerogative, there's no law saying he must.

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:40:16 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 10:29 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:12:58 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 6:53 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:16:22 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 3:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:50:50 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 12:10 PM, wrote:


Same thing as electing a dangerous total idiot as president and
counting on Concress and Senate to mitigate the damage.


The problem with your statement is that Trump isn't an idiot.


An intelligent idiot perhaps - but still an idiot - and I'm not even
sure of the "perhaps" If idiot is not the proper word, berhaps fool is
closer.



The man isn't even close to being an idiot, and to get to where he is
today takes a great amount of intelligence, too.

If I had inherited over 75 million dollars after having been put
through expensive colleges by rich parents I could be "very
successful" too.

You might even manage it.


Many people if put in the position of inheriting millions of dollars
can't manage it and end up broke.

Trump isn't broke.

He might be if he paid all his bills. He has been broke several times
and no-one, including the donald himself, really knows what he is
worth, financially.


Hey, I can't fault him for whatever his financial worth is - he's doing
better than a lot of other people I can think of, including me.
How would you be doing if you had a top-notch education given to you
along with a minimum of 75 million 1970s dollars???

On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 21:28:59 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:40:16 -0500, Muggles


He might be if he paid all his bills. He has been broke several times
and no-one, including the donald himself, really knows what he is
worth, financially.


Hey, I can't fault him for whatever his financial worth is - he's doing
better than a lot of other people I can think of, including me.
How would you be doing if you had a top-notch education given to you
along with a minimum of 75 million 1970s dollars???

I have heard it was more like a million but that is still a good kick
starter for a guy with all of the contacts he got from his pop.
I don't think the Donald has ever been personally bankrupt but he has
run a few businesses into the ground and walked away clean.
He is far from as successful as he would have us believe. Since 75% of
his "wealth" is the value of his brand, let's see how this chapter
affects the name "Trump". Will he be willing to divest himself of $10
billion dollars, just to live at 1600 Pa Ave?

On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 5:05:01 PM UTC-4, Tekkie® wrote:
trader_4 posted for all of us...



How do we know? He won't release his taxes? We don't even know how
much money he makes. It's possible it's all a Ponzi scheme. Bernie
Madoff, a month before his collapse, everyone thought he was a rich,
standup guy too. He got away with it for 25 years, if he can do that,
surely Trump could have a net worth of zero. Trump has even bragged
about having a negative net worth of $1 bil at points in his life,
so why isn't it possible now?


Trump stated several times he cannot release his taxes because he is being
audited. It makes sense that the IRS would make him a target-for several
reasons.

--
Tekkie

Trump is perfectly free to release his return whether it's being audited
or not. It seems unlikely that someone is going to find something there
that the IRS can't, that results in him paying more taxes. And as a guy
who wants to be president, doesn't he think he should pay the taxes he
really owes? So, if someone else points out that a deduction is not
allowed by law or finds a math error and the IRS then changes the amount
of tax owed, what's inherently wrong with that? He just winds up paying
what he legitimately owes. And Trump has tax
years that are not being audited, he has no excuse for not releasing
those.

The real reason he won't release them is because he doesn't want voters
to see them.

On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 5:13:00 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
Tekkie® formulated the question :
trader_4 posted for all of us...



How do we know? He won't release his taxes? We don't even know how
much money he makes. It's possible it's all a Ponzi scheme. Bernie
Madoff, a month before his collapse, everyone thought he was a rich,
standup guy too. He got away with it for 25 years, if he can do that,
surely Trump could have a net worth of zero. Trump has even bragged
about having a negative net worth of $1 bil at points in his life,
so why isn't it possible now?


Trump stated several times he cannot release his taxes because he is being
audited. It makes sense that the IRS would make him a target-for several
reasons.

I hadn't heard that. What I *did* hear is him saying he wouldn't.


You must not be paying much attention. Trump has said many times now
that he won't release his returns because they are being audited.
Of course when people ask him to release the years that are not being
audited, he won't release those either. It's another one of the TRump
lying tactics. AFAIK, we don't even know if it's true that he's
being audited, it could be a lie. He claims he's audited every year
and the IRS issued a statement saying that it would be extremely
unusual for even very high income people to be audited every year.
So, if Trump is telling the truth, it must be because he cheats so
much that they find lots of $$$ every year.


IMO, that's his prerogative, there's no law saying he must.

You're right, he doesn't have to. Hillary will just continue to
beat him up on it and I think it is a point for a lot of voters.

On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 11:29:46 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 21:28:59 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:40:16 -0500, Muggles


He might be if he paid all his bills. He has been broke several times
and no-one, including the donald himself, really knows what he is
worth, financially.


Hey, I can't fault him for whatever his financial worth is - he's doing
better than a lot of other people I can think of, including me.
How would you be doing if you had a top-notch education given to you
along with a minimum of 75 million 1970s dollars???

I have heard it was more like a million but that is still a good kick
starter for a guy with all of the contacts he got from his pop.

His father loaned him $1 mil to get him started. But soon after,
he was part owner of the family business and received a big addtioanl
pile when his father died. The whole thinkg is complicated and was
never in full public view, but Trump sure got closer to Clare's
$75 mil than just one mil.


http://www.politifact.com/florida/ar...t-100-million/


I don't think the Donald has ever been personally bankrupt but he has
run a few businesses into the ground and walked away clean.

Depends on your definition of clean. He certainly lost a lot of money
in those bankruptcies, just like many other investors.


He is far from as successful as he would have us believe. Since 75% of
his "wealth" is the value of his brand, let's see how this chapter
affects the name "Trump". Will he be willing to divest himself of $10
billion dollars, just to live at 1600 Pa Ave?

Why would he have to divest? He probably thinks his increased fame
will bring more value to the Trump brand. People say he really
believes that any publicity is good publicity and we see him acting
that way all the time. Reality is traffic at his hotels is down
like 17%, apparently because some people won't go there. He's
also lost whatever The Apprentice was worth, his deals with Macys.
And in typical Trump fashion he's now suing two celebrity chefs
who bailed out of an agreement to open restaurants in his new DC
hotel. Typical Trump logic. Instead of just finding new chefs
to partner with, he's suing these two for $10 mil. He's already
had to expose himself to being deposed, no telling what new dirt
will come out of that, etc.

On 8/25/2016 5:14 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 11:29:46 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 21:28:59 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:40:16 -0500, Muggles


He might be if he paid all his bills. He has been broke several times
and no-one, including the donald himself, really knows what he is
worth, financially.


Hey, I can't fault him for whatever his financial worth is - he's doing
better than a lot of other people I can think of, including me.
How would you be doing if you had a top-notch education given to you
along with a minimum of 75 million 1970s dollars???

I have heard it was more like a million but that is still a good kick
starter for a guy with all of the contacts he got from his pop.

His father loaned him $1 mil to get him started. But soon after,
he was part owner of the family business and received a big addtioanl
pile when his father died. The whole thinkg is complicated and was
never in full public view, but Trump sure got closer to Clare's
$75 mil than just one mil.


http://www.politifact.com/florida/ar...t-100-million/


I don't think the Donald has ever been personally bankrupt but he has
run a few businesses into the ground and walked away clean.

Depends on your definition of clean. He certainly lost a lot of money
in those bankruptcies, just like many other investors.


He is far from as successful as he would have us believe. Since 75% of
his "wealth" is the value of his brand, let's see how this chapter
affects the name "Trump". Will he be willing to divest himself of $10
billion dollars, just to live at 1600 Pa Ave?

Why would he have to divest? He probably thinks his increased fame
will bring more value to the Trump brand. People say he really
believes that any publicity is good publicity and we see him acting
that way all the time. Reality is traffic at his hotels is down
like 17%, apparently because some people won't go there. He's
also lost whatever The Apprentice was worth, his deals with Macys.
And in typical Trump fashion he's now suing two celebrity chefs
who bailed out of an agreement to open restaurants in his new DC
hotel. Typical Trump logic. Instead of just finding new chefs
to partner with, he's suing these two for $10 mil. He's already
had to expose himself to being deposed, no telling what new dirt
will come out of that, etc.



lots of people get a big inheritance or win a big lottery and then are
dead broke in a couple years. Look at some of the sports figures that
go from a couple hundred mil to bankruptcy.

On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 9:08:14 AM UTC-4, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 8/25/2016 5:14 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 11:29:46 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 21:28:59 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:40:16 -0500, Muggles


He might be if he paid all his bills. He has been broke several times
and no-one, including the donald himself, really knows what he is
worth, financially.


Hey, I can't fault him for whatever his financial worth is - he's doing
better than a lot of other people I can think of, including me.
How would you be doing if you had a top-notch education given to you
along with a minimum of 75 million 1970s dollars???

I have heard it was more like a million but that is still a good kick
starter for a guy with all of the contacts he got from his pop.

His father loaned him $1 mil to get him started. But soon after,
he was part owner of the family business and received a big addtioanl
pile when his father died. The whole thinkg is complicated and was
never in full public view, but Trump sure got closer to Clare's
$75 mil than just one mil.


http://www.politifact.com/florida/ar...t-100-million/


I don't think the Donald has ever been personally bankrupt but he has
run a few businesses into the ground and walked away clean.

Depends on your definition of clean. He certainly lost a lot of money
in those bankruptcies, just like many other investors.


He is far from as successful as he would have us believe. Since 75% of
his "wealth" is the value of his brand, let's see how this chapter
affects the name "Trump". Will he be willing to divest himself of $10
billion dollars, just to live at 1600 Pa Ave?

Why would he have to divest? He probably thinks his increased fame
will bring more value to the Trump brand. People say he really
believes that any publicity is good publicity and we see him acting
that way all the time. Reality is traffic at his hotels is down
like 17%, apparently because some people won't go there. He's
also lost whatever The Apprentice was worth, his deals with Macys.
And in typical Trump fashion he's now suing two celebrity chefs
who bailed out of an agreement to open restaurants in his new DC
hotel. Typical Trump logic. Instead of just finding new chefs
to partner with, he's suing these two for $10 mil. He's already
had to expose himself to being deposed, no telling what new dirt
will come out of that, etc.



lots of people get a big inheritance or win a big lottery and then are
dead broke in a couple years. Look at some of the sports figures that
go from a couple hundred mil to bankruptcy.

Trump's done that a couple times too. I don't think most people
think he's broke now, but it's certainly different if you start a
business with essentially nothing or you start out with a $1 mil
loan from pappy, when $1 mil was more like $4 mil today. And
then you later inherit a pile of money. Trump claims how he's
an extremely successful businessman. Others are pointing out that
if you just took that money and put into the DOW or SP500 you'd
have the same amount that Trump is worth or more.

On 8/25/2016 6:24 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 9:08:14 AM UTC-4, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 8/25/2016 5:14 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 11:29:46 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 21:28:59 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:40:16 -0500, Muggles


He might be if he paid all his bills. He has been broke several times
and no-one, including the donald himself, really knows what he is
worth, financially.


Hey, I can't fault him for whatever his financial worth is - he's doing
better than a lot of other people I can think of, including me.
How would you be doing if you had a top-notch education given to you
along with a minimum of 75 million 1970s dollars???

I have heard it was more like a million but that is still a good kick
starter for a guy with all of the contacts he got from his pop.

His father loaned him $1 mil to get him started. But soon after,
he was part owner of the family business and received a big addtioanl
pile when his father died. The whole thinkg is complicated and was
never in full public view, but Trump sure got closer to Clare's
$75 mil than just one mil.


http://www.politifact.com/florida/ar...t-100-million/


I don't think the Donald has ever been personally bankrupt but he has
run a few businesses into the ground and walked away clean.

Depends on your definition of clean. He certainly lost a lot of money
in those bankruptcies, just like many other investors.


He is far from as successful as he would have us believe. Since 75% of
his "wealth" is the value of his brand, let's see how this chapter
affects the name "Trump". Will he be willing to divest himself of $10
billion dollars, just to live at 1600 Pa Ave?

Why would he have to divest? He probably thinks his increased fame
will bring more value to the Trump brand. People say he really
believes that any publicity is good publicity and we see him acting
that way all the time. Reality is traffic at his hotels is down
like 17%, apparently because some people won't go there. He's
also lost whatever The Apprentice was worth, his deals with Macys.
And in typical Trump fashion he's now suing two celebrity chefs
who bailed out of an agreement to open restaurants in his new DC
hotel. Typical Trump logic. Instead of just finding new chefs
to partner with, he's suing these two for $10 mil. He's already
had to expose himself to being deposed, no telling what new dirt
will come out of that, etc.



lots of people get a big inheritance or win a big lottery and then are
dead broke in a couple years. Look at some of the sports figures that
go from a couple hundred mil to bankruptcy.

Trump's done that a couple times too. I don't think most people
think he's broke now, but it's certainly different if you start a
business with essentially nothing or you start out with a $1 mil
loan from pappy, when $1 mil was more like $4 mil today. And
then you later inherit a pile of money. Trump claims how he's
an extremely successful businessman. Others are pointing out that
if you just took that money and put into the DOW or SP500 you'd
have the same amount that Trump is worth or more.



But he has also spent a ton of money on a lavish lifestyle, too.
Couldn't do that investing in the SP500 and ending up at the same place.

And he didn't steal the money, like crooked hillary and bill.

trader_4 formulated on Thursday :
On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 5:13:00 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
Tekkie® formulated the question :
trader_4 posted for all of us...



How do we know? He won't release his taxes? We don't even know how
much money he makes. It's possible it's all a Ponzi scheme. Bernie
Madoff, a month before his collapse, everyone thought he was a rich,
standup guy too. He got away with it for 25 years, if he can do that,
surely Trump could have a net worth of zero. Trump has even bragged
about having a negative net worth of $1 bil at points in his life,
so why isn't it possible now?


Trump stated several times he cannot release his taxes because he is being
audited. It makes sense that the IRS would make him a target-for several
reasons.

I hadn't heard that. What I *did* hear is him saying he wouldn't.


You must not be paying much attention. Trump has said many times now
that he won't release his returns because they are being audited.

You must not be reading very well, even the things you yourself wrote.

Of course when people ask him to release the years that are not being
audited, he won't release those either. It's another one of the TRump
lying tactics. AFAIK, we don't even know if it's true that he's
being audited, it could be a lie. He claims he's audited every year
and the IRS issued a statement saying that it would be extremely
unusual for even very high income people to be audited every year.
So, if Trump is telling the truth, it must be because he cheats so
much that they find lots of $$$ every year.


IMO, that's his prerogative, there's no law saying he must.

You're right, he doesn't have to. Hillary will just continue to
beat him up on it and I think it is a point for a lot of voters.

That's true, but you wrote that he said that he "cannot" release them
which is a far cry from just being unwilling to.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 05:14:59 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:


I don't think the Donald has ever been personally bankrupt but he has
run a few businesses into the ground and walked away clean.

Depends on your definition of clean. He certainly lost a lot of money
in those bankruptcies, just like many other investors.


It he lost much of his personal fortune, he should sue his lawyers.
The main reason you set up corporations is to isolate yourself from
the corporate liability.


He is far from as successful as he would have us believe. Since 75% of
his "wealth" is the value of his brand, let's see how this chapter
affects the name "Trump". Will he be willing to divest himself of $10
billion dollars, just to live at 1600 Pa Ave?

Why would he have to divest? He probably thinks his increased fame
will bring more value to the Trump brand.

The president can't also run a corporation that does business with the
government. Simply letting his daughter run it is not far enough away.
He knows where the money is invested and there will always be
questions about whether the feds put policies and pressures on state
regulators that benefit that enterprise. This can never be a blind
trust because he knows where virtually every dollar is invested.
The same will be true of CGI, perhaps even more so, because foreign
governments are more involved. Simply refusing donations will not be
enough.
Without extensive divestiture, I doubt either of these people would
last a year in the white house before they are impeached.

On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 23:28:50 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 21:28:59 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:40:16 -0500, Muggles


He might be if he paid all his bills. He has been broke several times
and no-one, including the donald himself, really knows what he is
worth, financially.


Hey, I can't fault him for whatever his financial worth is - he's doing
better than a lot of other people I can think of, including me.
How would you be doing if you had a top-notch education given to you
along with a minimum of 75 million 1970s dollars???

I have heard it was more like a million but that is still a good kick
starter for a guy with all of the contacts he got from his pop.



His pop was worth between 300 and 800 million when he died, passing it
on to hid 4 surviving offspring
I don't think the Donald has ever been personally bankrupt but he has
run a few businesses into the ground and walked away clean.
He is far from as successful as he would have us believe. Since 75% of
his "wealth" is the value of his brand, let's see how this chapter
affects the name "Trump". Will he be willing to divest himself of $10
billion dollars, just to live at 1600 Pa Ave?

On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 06:28:43 -0700, Taxed and Spent
wrote:



And he didn't steal the money, like crooked hillary and bill.
What do you call not paying your contractors???
It's theft - pure and simple.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 12:28:48 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 05:14:59 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:


I don't think the Donald has ever been personally bankrupt but he has
run a few businesses into the ground and walked away clean.

Depends on your definition of clean. He certainly lost a lot of money
in those bankruptcies, just like many other investors.


It he lost much of his personal fortune, he should sue his lawyers.
The main reason you set up corporations is to isolate yourself from
the corporate liability.


Doesn't work that way anymore. You basically sign a "personal
guarantee" with the contract. in most cases.

What do you call not paying your contractors???
It's theft - pure and simple.

I'll say it again: if you want some entertainment Google "Trump
Discount"
--
Pete Cresswell

On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 21:34:08 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:


What do you call not paying your contractors???
It's theft - pure and simple.

I'll say it again: if you want some entertainment Google "Trump
Discount"

Builders going bankrupt and stiffing their subs is more common than
you would think.

On 8/24/2016 8:28 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:40:16 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 10:29 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:12:58 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 6:53 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:16:22 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 3:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:50:50 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 12:10 PM, wrote:


Same thing as electing a dangerous total idiot as president and
counting on Concress and Senate to mitigate the damage.


The problem with your statement is that Trump isn't an idiot.


An intelligent idiot perhaps - but still an idiot - and I'm not even
sure of the "perhaps" If idiot is not the proper word, berhaps fool is
closer.



The man isn't even close to being an idiot, and to get to where he is
today takes a great amount of intelligence, too.

If I had inherited over 75 million dollars after having been put
through expensive colleges by rich parents I could be "very
successful" too.

You might even manage it.


Many people if put in the position of inheriting millions of dollars
can't manage it and end up broke.

Trump isn't broke.

He might be if he paid all his bills. He has been broke several times
and no-one, including the donald himself, really knows what he is
worth, financially.


Hey, I can't fault him for whatever his financial worth is - he's doing
better than a lot of other people I can think of, including me.

How would you be doing if you had a top-notch education given to you
along with a minimum of 75 million 1970s dollars???


It doesn't matter.

--
Maggie

On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 10:21:20 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 21:34:08 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:


What do you call not paying your contractors???
It's theft - pure and simple.

I'll say it again: if you want some entertainment Google "Trump
Discount"

Builders going bankrupt and stiffing their subs is more common than
you would think.

Except Trump has a long history of doing the stiffing without going
bankrupt. For example, there was a small cabinet maker from Philly
that had been doing work for Trump at one of his casinos. When the
work was done, Trump refused to pay them the last amount which was
substantial, like $100K. They went out of business shortly later.
I saw the son interviewed and he said Trump just stiffed them and
it wasn't the quality of the work, because they told them they could
still do more work for Trump if they wanted to. And while his casinos
did go bankrupt, that was outside the bankruptcies. Lots of reports
of him doing similar. I know people in one of the business segments
he does business in and they told me years ago he was known for
pulling this stunt.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 22:12:29 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/24/2016 8:28 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:40:16 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 10:29 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:12:58 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 6:53 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:16:22 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 3:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:50:50 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 8/23/2016 12:10 PM, wrote:


Same thing as electing a dangerous total idiot as president and
counting on Concress and Senate to mitigate the damage.


The problem with your statement is that Trump isn't an idiot.


An intelligent idiot perhaps - but still an idiot - and I'm not even
sure of the "perhaps" If idiot is not the proper word, berhaps fool is
closer.



The man isn't even close to being an idiot, and to get to where he is
today takes a great amount of intelligence, too.

If I had inherited over 75 million dollars after having been put
through expensive colleges by rich parents I could be "very
successful" too.

You might even manage it.


Many people if put in the position of inheriting millions of dollars
can't manage it and end up broke.

Trump isn't broke.

He might be if he paid all his bills. He has been broke several times
and no-one, including the donald himself, really knows what he is
worth, financially.


Hey, I can't fault him for whatever his financial worth is - he's doing
better than a lot of other people I can think of, including me.

How would you be doing if you had a top-notch education given to you
along with a minimum of 75 million 1970s dollars???


It doesn't matter.
Then nore does the "FACT" that Trump is a "successfull businesman"
have anything to do with proving he's not a total idiot. (or fool)

"trader_4" wrote in message news:8e3b2e29-5774-

stuff snipped

Builders going bankrupt and stiffing their subs is more common than
you would think.

Except Trump has a long history of doing the stiffing without going
bankrupt. For example, there was a small cabinet maker from Philly
that had been doing work for Trump at one of his casinos. When the
work was done, Trump refused to pay them the last amount which was
substantial, like $100K. They went out of business shortly later.

Pretty likely because they were awful businessmen. Front $100K to Trump?

I saw the son interviewed and he said Trump just stiffed them and
it wasn't the quality of the work, because they told them they could
still do more work for Trump if they wanted to.

Who really put the 100K at risk? Trump or the contractor that extended that
amount of credit? Some have said people made so much money working on Trump
projects that it still worked out in the end for many even with their
involuntary contributions though his bankruptcies.

Would you sign a contract that didn't read "pay as you go" with a character
as well-known as a deadbeat as you say Trump was? Builders have been
stiffing contractors since the building of the Pyramids.

It's like blaming the mortgage crisis on the borrowers rather than the
lenders. The lenders failed their "dur diligence" duties and gave $ to
people with no chance of paying it back, hoping to recover what they thought
would be an even-more valuable asset in foreclosure. They gambled and lost.

If Trump didn't go bankrupt in the case you cited, why didn't the contractor
sue? I know *I* wouldn't let a valid $100K debt evaporate like that. I
smell something fishy with this tale . . .

--
Bobby G.

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 1:23:57 PM UTC-4, Robert Green wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message news:8e3b2e29-5774-

stuff snipped

Builders going bankrupt and stiffing their subs is more common than
you would think.

Except Trump has a long history of doing the stiffing without going
bankrupt. For example, there was a small cabinet maker from Philly
that had been doing work for Trump at one of his casinos. When the
work was done, Trump refused to pay them the last amount which was
substantial, like $100K. They went out of business shortly later.

Pretty likely because they were awful businessmen. Front $100K to Trump?

I saw the son interviewed and he said Trump just stiffed them and
it wasn't the quality of the work, because they told them they could
still do more work for Trump if they wanted to.

Who really put the 100K at risk? Trump or the contractor that extended that
amount of credit?

You think having that kind of bill without money upfront is unusual
in the commercial business? Especially from someone who's well known
as a rich, billionaire who can pay? If you haven't heard the stories,
you'd think he's worth billions, he will pay.



Some have said people made so much money working on Trump
projects that it still worked out in the end for many even with their
involuntary contributions though his bankruptcies.

Would you sign a contract that didn't read "pay as you go" with a character
as well-known as a deadbeat as you say Trump was? Builders have been
stiffing contractors since the building of the Pyramids.


It would seem to me that you'd have to write a contract that said
pay ahead, not pay as you go, to avoid being stiffed.




It's like blaming the mortgage crisis on the borrowers rather than the
lenders.

Sounds to me like you're blaming the victims.



The lenders failed their "dur diligence" duties and gave $ to
people with no chance of paying it back, hoping to recover what they thought
would be an even-more valuable asset in foreclosure. They gambled and lost.

If Trump didn't go bankrupt in the case you cited, why didn't the contractor
sue? I know *I* wouldn't let a valid $100K debt evaporate like that. I
smell something fishy with this tale . . .

--
Bobby G.

You can go check it all out and get back to us. All I know is there
have been plenty of reports on the media, including the interview
with the Philly cabinet builder. All are telling similar stories.
And as I said, I heard it locally, from people in businesses that
serve some of the types of businesses that Trump is in. Like those
other stories, they say he stiffs people when he doesn't need them
anymore, can get away with it, etc.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-t...lls-1465504454

You don't have to believe me or the reports, even Trump himself admits it:

€œIf they do a good job, I wont cut them at all,€� Mr. Trump said of businesses he contracts with, saying €œits probably 1,000 to one where I pay.€� He said he occasionally wont pay fully when work is simply satisfactory or €œan OK to bad job€¦If its OK, then Ill sometimes cut them.€�

Right there he admits that if they do an OK or satisfactory job sometimes
he will cut them.