SeaNymph formulated the question :
On 5/26/2016 12:58 PM, FromTheRafters wrote:
Diesel pretended :
SeaNymph
Thu, 26 May 2016 12:11:57 GMT in alt.politics.scorched-earth, wrote:
Possibly, but that's life. I'm sick of the left trying to
convince people that law abiding gun owners are the problem. They
continue to ignore the criminal element and frankly, they're all
idiots, imo.

I don't know the difference between the left or right in the context
you're using. Politics is something I freely admit to having very
little knowledge of. What little knowledge of the subject I do have
boils down to this: It's people who lie for your vote and pass laws
I'm supposed to obey whether I personally like them or not.

The way I understand it is in the way the Constitution is interpreted.
On the left are the liberals who think the words should be interpreted
in the context of today's reality despite what the words actually are,
and on the right are the conservatives who think the words should be
interpreted in the context of the framer's actual words and what they
meant at the time of the framing.

You are spot on that both sides lie to the people to get their agenda to
win and laws to get passed despite what the people (who are supposed to
be in charge by way of congress) actually want.

Our system of collecting and counting votes has far too many degrees of
separation between the people's wishes and the eventual decision and now
liberals want to remove the safeguard the framers put in place to forbid
the power from being taken completely away from them. They're even using
PTSD as an excuse for disarming our combat veterans.

I want less government, not more. Seems the liberals want total control.

IMO both sides do. Liberals want to legislate bathrooms and
conservatives want to legislate reproduction rights. We need both
conservatives and liberals. Our government is like two drunks fighting
over the wheel of a car going down the road. The only reason we make
any progress at all is by bouncing off of parked cars.

On 5/27/2016 7:32 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:
SeaNymph formulated the question :
On 5/26/2016 12:58 PM, FromTheRafters wrote:
Diesel pretended :
SeaNymph
Thu, 26 May 2016 12:11:57 GMT in alt.politics.scorched-earth, wrote:
Possibly, but that's life. I'm sick of the left trying to
convince people that law abiding gun owners are the problem. They
continue to ignore the criminal element and frankly, they're all
idiots, imo.

I don't know the difference between the left or right in the context
you're using. Politics is something I freely admit to having very
little knowledge of. What little knowledge of the subject I do have
boils down to this: It's people who lie for your vote and pass laws
I'm supposed to obey whether I personally like them or not.

The way I understand it is in the way the Constitution is interpreted.
On the left are the liberals who think the words should be interpreted
in the context of today's reality despite what the words actually are,
and on the right are the conservatives who think the words should be
interpreted in the context of the framer's actual words and what they
meant at the time of the framing.

You are spot on that both sides lie to the people to get their agenda to
win and laws to get passed despite what the people (who are supposed to
be in charge by way of congress) actually want.

Our system of collecting and counting votes has far too many degrees of
separation between the people's wishes and the eventual decision and now
liberals want to remove the safeguard the framers put in place to forbid
the power from being taken completely away from them. They're even using
PTSD as an excuse for disarming our combat veterans.

I want less government, not more. Seems the liberals want total control.

IMO both sides do. Liberals want to legislate bathrooms and
conservatives want to legislate reproduction rights. We need both
conservatives and liberals. Our government is like two drunks fighting
over the wheel of a car going down the road. The only reason we make any
progress at all is by bouncing off of parked cars.

What we need, imo, is term limits for congress. I really believe that
would put a stop to the unending partisanship, and remove the issue of
politicians worrying more about money and power than anything else.

On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 7:06:12 AM UTC-4, dvus wrote:
On 5/26/2016 2:44 PM, SeaNymph wrote:
On 5/26/2016 7:19 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 5/26/2016 8:11 AM, SeaNymph wrote:
Possibly, but that's life. I'm sick of the left trying to convince
people that law abiding gun owners are the problem. They continue to
ignore the criminal element and frankly, they're all idiots, imo.

And the real problems are just starting. I had a family member take a
child to the doctor. During the visit the family member was asked if
there were guns in the house. After confirming that there were, the
family member was asked if the ammo was kept separately. Really?


Does anyone else get the feeling that our once
great and free nation is changing. Really being
fundamentally transformed, with liberals as Our
Nation's Leaders.

I've had that feelings for years now, about 8 years.

If the GOP wasn't so dead-set on maintaining the status-quo they could
easily stave off all the nonsense the minority liberals are pushing.
That's one of the reasons I like Trump, he doesn't care about "the way
things used to be", he's interested in putting the US back on top
economically and to hell with all this PC nonsense.

--
dvus

I thought Trump's whole campaign was that he cared very much about the
way things used to be and he's going to wave a wand to take us back there.

SeaNymph was thinking very hard :
On 5/27/2016 7:32 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:
SeaNymph formulated the question :
On 5/26/2016 12:58 PM, FromTheRafters wrote:
Diesel pretended :
SeaNymph
Thu, 26 May 2016 12:11:57 GMT in alt.politics.scorched-earth, wrote:
Possibly, but that's life. I'm sick of the left trying to
convince people that law abiding gun owners are the problem. They
continue to ignore the criminal element and frankly, they're all
idiots, imo.

I don't know the difference between the left or right in the context
you're using. Politics is something I freely admit to having very
little knowledge of. What little knowledge of the subject I do have
boils down to this: It's people who lie for your vote and pass laws
I'm supposed to obey whether I personally like them or not.

The way I understand it is in the way the Constitution is interpreted.
On the left are the liberals who think the words should be interpreted
in the context of today's reality despite what the words actually are,
and on the right are the conservatives who think the words should be
interpreted in the context of the framer's actual words and what they
meant at the time of the framing.

You are spot on that both sides lie to the people to get their agenda to
win and laws to get passed despite what the people (who are supposed to
be in charge by way of congress) actually want.

Our system of collecting and counting votes has far too many degrees of
separation between the people's wishes and the eventual decision and now
liberals want to remove the safeguard the framers put in place to forbid
the power from being taken completely away from them. They're even using
PTSD as an excuse for disarming our combat veterans.

I want less government, not more. Seems the liberals want total control.

IMO both sides do. Liberals want to legislate bathrooms and
conservatives want to legislate reproduction rights. We need both
conservatives and liberals. Our government is like two drunks fighting
over the wheel of a car going down the road. The only reason we make any
progress at all is by bouncing off of parked cars.

What we need, imo, is term limits for congress. I really believe that would
put a stop to the unending partisanship, and remove the issue of politicians
worrying more about money and power than anything else.

Yes, we have agreed on this point many times in these groups. Cronyism
gets too well ensconced otherwise. Term limits and having those making
the rules be also subject to those same rules would help too.

On 5/27/2016 8:32 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:
SeaNymph formulated the question :

I want less government, not more. Seems the liberals want total control.

IMO both sides do. Liberals want to legislate bathrooms and
conservatives want to legislate reproduction rights. We need both
conservatives and liberals. Our government is like two drunks fighting
over the wheel of a car going down the road. The only reason we make any
progress at all is by bouncing off of parked cars.

Liberals do things like renaming infant murder
and calling it reproduction rights.

Liberals often use the "everyone is doing it"
arguments as if some how that makes it right.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 5/27/2016 8:34 AM, SeaNymph wrote:
On 5/27/2016 7:32 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:

IMO both sides do. Liberals want to legislate bathrooms and
conservatives want to legislate reproduction rights. We need both
conservatives and liberals. Our government is like two drunks fighting
over the wheel of a car going down the road. The only reason we make any
progress at all is by bouncing off of parked cars.

What we need, imo, is term limits for congress. I really believe that
would put a stop to the unending partisanship, and remove the issue of
politicians worrying more about money and power than anything else.


I'd like to forcefully remind them they are elected reps, not Our
Nation's Leaders.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 8:22:34 AM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
It happens that SeaNymph formulated :
On 5/25/2016 7:42 PM, Diesel wrote:
SeaNymph
Wed, 25 May 2016 20:41:28 GMT in alt.politics.scorched-earth, wrote:

On 5/25/2016 10:13 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per SeaNymph:
And yet again, they ignore the criminal element.

I have no use for guns personally (although I recognize that
others do) and an extremely-low regard for the NRA.

Having said that....

A looooong time ago I lived in Hawaii for almost 10 years.

As a matter of fact - at that time - somebody could get beaten
half to death just walking down the street in *any* part of town
or country.

Most places in the USA, you have an idea where to go and where
not to go for personal safety. .... Not so in the Hawaii of that
time - the worst could happen anytime anywhere without somebody
even knowing what they had done/not done to provoke it.

One phenomenon was theft from cars. You stop at a tourist spot,
get out of the car, look around, come back to the car, and
there's Bla James going through your glove compartment. No
cops, nobody else around... just 375# of Bla James.... so you
keep your mouth shut and don't bother the guy until he's finished
with his business.

In that context of might-makes-right, the conventional wisdom was
"Don't mess with Filipinos because those guys carry *knives*"....
So I have to, however grudgingly, buy into the "Equalizer" aspect
of the NRA's PR efforts.

OTOH whether the "Equalizer" aspect of an armed public would
outweigh the inevitable gun battles and the probable emergence of
relative firepower as a determinant (as opposed to being armed vs
unarmed) is another issue that I do not claim to know enough to
opine on.

i.e. If most people in Hawaii of that time carried handguns,
maybe Bla James would have a buddy and be packing a
fully-automatic AR-15.... creating an even worse situation than
unarmed vs armed....

I'm a gun owner. We don't do anything other than target shoot, but
we both enjoy it.

There are studies that say that states with carry laws have lower
incidents of violent crimes. That makes sense to me. While I don't
have a carry permit yet, I'm planning on getting one. I don't plan
to carry a gun often, but that permit will serve as a permit to
purchase for 5 years, and I do plan to buy more guns

This is an interesting article.
http://www.cato.org/publications/com...ol-myths-reali
ties




Nice article...You'll probably catch some flak for providing it.


Possibly, but that's life. I'm sick of the left trying to convince people
that law abiding gun owners are the problem. They continue to ignore the
criminal element and frankly, they're all idiots, imo.

And the real problems are just starting. I had a family member take a child
to the doctor. During the visit the family member was asked if there were
guns in the house. After confirming that there were, the family member was
asked if the ammo was kept separately. Really?

How is that any of their business? I suppose they did that in response
to mental or emotional issues with the child, which in this
administration makes it their business. That's what happens when the
pro-gun camp insists that crazy people are the real problem, not a
proliferation of guns. You just can't win I guess.

ROFL. Obviously having docs ask about guns in the house and ammo is very
much in line with the lib agenda, and totally out of line with the gun rights groups.

On 5/27/2016 8:13 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 8:22:34 AM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:
It happens that SeaNymph formulated :
On 5/25/2016 7:42 PM, Diesel wrote:
SeaNymph
Wed, 25 May 2016 20:41:28 GMT in alt.politics.scorched-earth, wrote:


[snip]


Possibly, but that's life. I'm sick of the left trying to convince people
that law abiding gun owners are the problem. They continue to ignore the
criminal element and frankly, they're all idiots, imo.

And the real problems are just starting. I had a family member take a child
to the doctor. During the visit the family member was asked if there were
guns in the house. After confirming that there were, the family member was
asked if the ammo was kept separately. Really?

How is that any of their business? I suppose they did that in response
to mental or emotional issues with the child, which in this
administration makes it their business. That's what happens when the
pro-gun camp insists that crazy people are the real problem, not a
proliferation of guns. You just can't win I guess.

ROFL. Obviously having docs ask about guns in the house and ammo is very
much in line with the lib agenda, and totally out of line with the gun rights groups.


A good friend of mine tells me that his doctor has been asking him about
guns in the house as well. Seems this doctor has been doing it for many
years, back before Bush even.

My friend will go there and the doctor comes in and tells him about his
latest firearm's acquisitions and then asks my friend which new guns
he's bought!g

None of my docs have asked and I hope that they never do. I like them
all but they'll only ask that question once. The second time I hear it,
I'll find a new doctor.

On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 8:32:30 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 5/26/2016 8:22 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:
It happens that SeaNymph formulated :
And the real problems are just starting. I had a family member take a
child to the doctor. During the visit the family member was asked if
there were guns in the house. After confirming that there were, the
family member was asked if the ammo was kept separately. Really?

How is that any of their business? I suppose they did that in response
to mental or emotional issues with the child, which in this
administration makes it their business. That's what happens when the
pro-gun camp insists that crazy people are the real problem, not a
proliferation of guns. You just can't win I guess.

I saw a web page a while back. Turns out that
pretty much all the school shooters were on
psych medicines, prescribed. So, it's very
possible the gun nuts are right (double entendre)
here.


I doubt it's even a majority, but I'd be happy to see
your source for that.




Other item of note, the mass killings have all
been in gun free zones. So, the victims had no
way to shoot back. The loony left's answer?
make more gun free zones. Hello!



I challenged this the other day. Was the church that Dylan Roof
shot up a gun-free zone? I never saw anything where they even had
a gun policy. This also ignores that most of these shootings, the
shooter had a strong association to the place and people where the
shooting occurred. Sandy Hook, Ft. Hood, DC Navy Yard, San Bernardino,
Columbine, etc. The shooter didn't pick from a list of gun free places,
they went to their workplace, school they were associated with, etc.
Many were intent on dying themselves or clearly didn't care, so it's
hard to buy that them thinking someone *might* be a concealed carry
person would have stopped them.

On Fri, 27 May 2016 07:13:54 -0500
SeaNymph wrote:

On 5/27/2016 6:05 AM, dvus wrote:
On 5/26/2016 2:44 PM, SeaNymph wrote:
On 5/26/2016 7:19 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 5/26/2016 8:11 AM, SeaNymph wrote:
Possibly, but that's life. I'm sick of the left trying to
convince people that law abiding gun owners are the problem.
They continue to ignore the criminal element and frankly,
they're all idiots, imo.

And the real problems are just starting. I had a family member
take a child to the doctor. During the visit the family member
was asked if there were guns in the house. After confirming
that there were, the family member was asked if the ammo was
kept separately. Really?


Does anyone else get the feeling that our once
great and free nation is changing. Really being
fundamentally transformed, with liberals as Our
Nation's Leaders.

I've had that feelings for years now, about 8 years.

If the GOP wasn't so dead-set on maintaining the status-quo they
could easily stave off all the nonsense the minority liberals are
pushing. That's one of the reasons I like Trump, he doesn't care
about "the way things used to be", he's interested in putting the
US back on top economically and to hell with all this PC nonsense.


I believe you are right about the GOP. I believe those in charge are
absolute idiots, not willing to take a stand. The democrats are very
quick to blame things on republicans, but the republicans never seem
to fight back or stand up for anything.


They are Girlie men voted in by same.

On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 1:26:14 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
Stormin Mormon
Thu, 26 May 2016 12:32:27 GMT in
alt.politics.scorched-earth, wrote:

On 5/26/2016 8:22 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:
It happens that SeaNymph formulated :
And the real problems are just starting. I had a family member
take a child to the doctor. During the visit the family member
was asked if there were guns in the house. After confirming
that there were, the family member was asked if the ammo was
kept separately. Really?

How is that any of their business? I suppose they did that in
response to mental or emotional issues with the child, which in
this administration makes it their business. That's what happens
when the pro-gun camp insists that crazy people are the real
problem, not a proliferation of guns. You just can't win I guess.

I saw a web page a while back. Turns out that
pretty much all the school shooters were on
psych medicines, prescribed. So, it's very
possible the gun nuts are right (double entendre)
here.

Other item of note, the mass killings have all
been in gun free zones. So, the victims had no
way to shoot back. The loony left's answer?
make more gun free zones. Hello!


If you're a bad guy... wouldn't it make more sense to target a place
you can be reasonably certain doesn't have any realistic ability to
defend itself or it's people from you? You have gun(s), you're
reasonably certain they don't, because, it's a 'gun free zone'. Due
to the fact you're going to shoot people anyway, I suspect that
breaking the gun free zone law really isn't much concern to you at
this point.


Most of these shooters were either so fanatic or so deranged that their
chance of getting shot probably never entered into their decision of target.
Almost all of these, the shooter had a connection to the place, ie it was
a workplace, a school they were associated with, etc. You can't convince
me that one of these shooters goes on one of these rampages and they don't
realize that in the response, eg the police showing up, they have a good
chance of being shot. And that is exactly what happens with a lot of them.



We all know how this ends for the poor sobs stuck in the
building/outside nearby who have no realistic means in which to
defend themselves with.



We also see daily examples of road rage and other bad behavior. If we
encourage and allow most of the population to walk around with a gun,
it's not hard to see how you could wind up with more of those incidents
turning into shootings too. If you start handing out guns to everyone,
it's not just going to be the exec, the little old lady, etc that have
them. A lot are going to be people like you see at those Trump protests,
for example. Angry hot heads, full of bad judgment, who have no
felony convictions, so now they go around carrying a gun, looking for
trouble. Idiots like George Zimmerman, for example. I supported Z at the
time, and still think that based on the evidence, the acquittal was
justified. But I don't think Martin was the only bad actor that night
and now have plenty of reason to doubt Z's account of what started the
whole thing. We've now seen the real Z in all the other incidents the
skunk has had, the dumb things he's said and done, including the latest,
his auctioning off the gun. So, IDK how many other whackos there are out
there that shouldn't be walking around with guns, but I suspect it's a
lot.

on 5/27/2016, Stormin Mormon supposed :
On 5/27/2016 8:32 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:
SeaNymph formulated the question :

I want less government, not more. Seems the liberals want total control.

IMO both sides do. Liberals want to legislate bathrooms and
conservatives want to legislate reproduction rights. We need both
conservatives and liberals. Our government is like two drunks fighting
over the wheel of a car going down the road. The only reason we make any
progress at all is by bouncing off of parked cars.

Liberals do things like renaming infant murder
and calling it reproduction rights.

Liberals often use the "everyone is doing it"
arguments as if some how that makes it right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant

On 5/27/2016 8:04 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:
SeaNymph was thinking very hard :
On 5/27/2016 7:32 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:
SeaNymph formulated the question :
On 5/26/2016 12:58 PM, FromTheRafters wrote:
Diesel pretended :
SeaNymph
Thu, 26 May 2016 12:11:57 GMT in alt.politics.scorched-earth, wrote:
Possibly, but that's life. I'm sick of the left trying to
convince people that law abiding gun owners are the problem. They
continue to ignore the criminal element and frankly, they're all
idiots, imo.

I don't know the difference between the left or right in the context
you're using. Politics is something I freely admit to having very
little knowledge of. What little knowledge of the subject I do have
boils down to this: It's people who lie for your vote and pass laws
I'm supposed to obey whether I personally like them or not.

The way I understand it is in the way the Constitution is interpreted.
On the left are the liberals who think the words should be interpreted
in the context of today's reality despite what the words actually are,
and on the right are the conservatives who think the words should be
interpreted in the context of the framer's actual words and what they
meant at the time of the framing.

You are spot on that both sides lie to the people to get their
agenda to
win and laws to get passed despite what the people (who are
supposed to
be in charge by way of congress) actually want.

Our system of collecting and counting votes has far too many
degrees of
separation between the people's wishes and the eventual decision
and now
liberals want to remove the safeguard the framers put in place to
forbid
the power from being taken completely away from them. They're even
using
PTSD as an excuse for disarming our combat veterans.

I want less government, not more. Seems the liberals want total
control.

IMO both sides do. Liberals want to legislate bathrooms and
conservatives want to legislate reproduction rights. We need both
conservatives and liberals. Our government is like two drunks fighting
over the wheel of a car going down the road. The only reason we make any
progress at all is by bouncing off of parked cars.

What we need, imo, is term limits for congress. I really believe that
would put a stop to the unending partisanship, and remove the issue of
politicians worrying more about money and power than anything else.

Yes, we have agreed on this point many times in these groups. Cronyism
gets too well ensconced otherwise. Term limits and having those making
the rules be also subject to those same rules would help too.

Absolutely. I believe that both congress and the executive branch have
long overstepped the bounds of what they are constitutionally empowered
to do.

On 5/27/2016 8:13 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 5/27/2016 8:34 AM, SeaNymph wrote:
On 5/27/2016 7:32 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:

IMO both sides do. Liberals want to legislate bathrooms and
conservatives want to legislate reproduction rights. We need both
conservatives and liberals. Our government is like two drunks fighting
over the wheel of a car going down the road. The only reason we make any
progress at all is by bouncing off of parked cars.

What we need, imo, is term limits for congress. I really believe that
would put a stop to the unending partisanship, and remove the issue of
politicians worrying more about money and power than anything else.


I'd like to forcefully remind them they are elected reps, not Our
Nation's Leaders.

Seems a reasonable thing to do. That being said, I don't believe they
care about much of anything but themselves. Congress is nothing more,
imo, than a well paid, part time job, with endless benefits.

On 5/27/2016 9:33 AM, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2016 07:13:54 -0500
SeaNymph wrote:

On 5/27/2016 6:05 AM, dvus wrote:
On 5/26/2016 2:44 PM, SeaNymph wrote:
On 5/26/2016 7:19 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 5/26/2016 8:11 AM, SeaNymph wrote:
Possibly, but that's life. I'm sick of the left trying to
convince people that law abiding gun owners are the problem.
They continue to ignore the criminal element and frankly,
they're all idiots, imo.

And the real problems are just starting. I had a family member
take a child to the doctor. During the visit the family member
was asked if there were guns in the house. After confirming
that there were, the family member was asked if the ammo was
kept separately. Really?


Does anyone else get the feeling that our once
great and free nation is changing. Really being
fundamentally transformed, with liberals as Our
Nation's Leaders.

I've had that feelings for years now, about 8 years.

If the GOP wasn't so dead-set on maintaining the status-quo they
could easily stave off all the nonsense the minority liberals are
pushing. That's one of the reasons I like Trump, he doesn't care
about "the way things used to be", he's interested in putting the
US back on top economically and to hell with all this PC nonsense.


I believe you are right about the GOP. I believe those in charge are
absolute idiots, not willing to take a stand. The democrats are very
quick to blame things on republicans, but the republicans never seem
to fight back or stand up for anything.


They are Girlie men voted in by same.

I think most of them are just career politicians who like things the way
they are, what with their exemption from the laws and regulations they
do pass and the comfy life they've set up for themselves.

--
dvus

On Sat, 28 May 2016 08:44:50 -0400
dvus wrote:

On 5/27/2016 9:33 AM, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2016 07:13:54 -0500
SeaNymph wrote:

On 5/27/2016 6:05 AM, dvus wrote:
On 5/26/2016 2:44 PM, SeaNymph wrote:
On 5/26/2016 7:19 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 5/26/2016 8:11 AM, SeaNymph wrote:
Possibly, but that's life. I'm sick of the left trying to
convince people that law abiding gun owners are the problem.
They continue to ignore the criminal element and frankly,
they're all idiots, imo.

And the real problems are just starting. I had a family member
take a child to the doctor. During the visit the family member
was asked if there were guns in the house. After confirming
that there were, the family member was asked if the ammo was
kept separately. Really?


Does anyone else get the feeling that our once
great and free nation is changing. Really being
fundamentally transformed, with liberals as Our
Nation's Leaders.

I've had that feelings for years now, about 8 years.

If the GOP wasn't so dead-set on maintaining the status-quo they
could easily stave off all the nonsense the minority liberals are
pushing. That's one of the reasons I like Trump, he doesn't care
about "the way things used to be", he's interested in putting the
US back on top economically and to hell with all this PC nonsense.


I believe you are right about the GOP. I believe those in charge
are absolute idiots, not willing to take a stand. The democrats
are very quick to blame things on republicans, but the republicans
never seem to fight back or stand up for anything.


They are Girlie men voted in by same.

I think most of them are just career politicians who like things the
way they are, what with their exemption from the laws and regulations
they do pass and the comfy life they've set up for themselves.


Agreed. But every two or six years the people vote
them right back in..
"They are all worthless and need to go except
mine"

"trader_4" wrote in message news:22897e61-948d-

stuff snipped

I saw a web page a while back. Turns out that
pretty much all the school shooters were on
psych medicines, prescribed. So, it's very
possible the gun nuts are right (double entendre)
here.


I doubt it's even a majority, but I'd be happy to see
your source for that.

I'd bet that just as many, if not more school shooters also played a lot of
first person shooter video games. About the only thing you can say about
mass shootings with certainty is that they are a modern problem that's been
escalating.

If true that if they were all on psych meds it may mean that they already
had very
visible prior mental/emotional difficulties that demanded some kind of
treatment.

Other item of note, the mass killings have all
been in gun free zones. So, the victims had no
way to shoot back. The loony left's answer?
make more gun free zones. Hello!

I challenged this the other day. Was the church that Dylan Roof
shot up a gun-free zone? I never saw anything where they even had
a gun policy. This also ignores that most of these shootings, the
shooter had a strong association to the place and people where the
shooting occurred. Sandy Hook, Ft. Hood, DC Navy Yard, San Bernardino,
Columbine, etc. The shooter didn't pick from a list of gun free places,
they went to their workplace, school they were associated with, etc.

Excellent point. IMHO, the GFZ designation means little or nothing. It's
like real estate. Location, location, location. Shooters usually have an
axe to grind that determines their choice of targets. As far as I know very
few (if any) active shootings were stopped in mid-shooting by "good guys
with guns."

I do know for a fact that two very notorious shooters (actually more) were
stopped in mid-rampage as they were changing magazines. (LIRR and Gabriel
Gifford.) That alone tells me that limiting magazine capacity might
actually be effective in keeping the total body count down. I think it's a
little bit ludicrous to believe that the "good guy with a gun" myth
is anything more than that. Wishful thinking.

Many were intent on dying themselves or clearly didn't care, so it's
hard to buy that them thinking someone *might* be a concealed carry
person would have stopped them.

Many police and military emergency response teams train and train for such
eventualities and the "shootout" mode is usually the last resort,
particularly in hostage situations. When Ford was targeted the Secret
Service agent *perhaps* could have drawn his weapon and shot Sara Jane Moore
(sp?) but he was trained to reach for the weapon and insert his thumb
between the hammer and the firing pin. I've seen cops injure each other
because they ended up in each other's line of fire. I doubt untrained casual
handgun carriers have the innate sense to worry about such potential
collateral damage.

--
Bobby G.

dvus formulated the question :
On 5/27/2016 9:33 AM, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2016 07:13:54 -0500
SeaNymph wrote:

On 5/27/2016 6:05 AM, dvus wrote:
On 5/26/2016 2:44 PM, SeaNymph wrote:
On 5/26/2016 7:19 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 5/26/2016 8:11 AM, SeaNymph wrote:
Possibly, but that's life. I'm sick of the left trying to
convince people that law abiding gun owners are the problem.
They continue to ignore the criminal element and frankly,
they're all idiots, imo.

And the real problems are just starting. I had a family member
take a child to the doctor. During the visit the family member
was asked if there were guns in the house. After confirming
that there were, the family member was asked if the ammo was
kept separately. Really?


Does anyone else get the feeling that our once
great and free nation is changing. Really being
fundamentally transformed, with liberals as Our
Nation's Leaders.

I've had that feelings for years now, about 8 years.

If the GOP wasn't so dead-set on maintaining the status-quo they
could easily stave off all the nonsense the minority liberals are
pushing. That's one of the reasons I like Trump, he doesn't care
about "the way things used to be", he's interested in putting the
US back on top economically and to hell with all this PC nonsense.


I believe you are right about the GOP. I believe those in charge are
absolute idiots, not willing to take a stand. The democrats are very
quick to blame things on republicans, but the republicans never seem
to fight back or stand up for anything.


They are Girlie men voted in by same.

I think most of them are just career politicians who like things the way they
are, what with their exemption from the laws and regulations they do pass and
the comfy life they've set up for themselves.

Not to mention the fact that the greatest percentage of their time is
spent fundraising for their party instead of doing actual government
work. Not just the Republicans either.

On 5/28/2016 7:44 AM, dvus wrote:
On 5/27/2016 9:33 AM, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2016 07:13:54 -0500
SeaNymph wrote:

On 5/27/2016 6:05 AM, dvus wrote:
On 5/26/2016 2:44 PM, SeaNymph wrote:
On 5/26/2016 7:19 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 5/26/2016 8:11 AM, SeaNymph wrote:
Possibly, but that's life. I'm sick of the left trying to
convince people that law abiding gun owners are the problem.
They continue to ignore the criminal element and frankly,
they're all idiots, imo.

And the real problems are just starting. I had a family member
take a child to the doctor. During the visit the family member
was asked if there were guns in the house. After confirming
that there were, the family member was asked if the ammo was
kept separately. Really?


Does anyone else get the feeling that our once
great and free nation is changing. Really being
fundamentally transformed, with liberals as Our
Nation's Leaders.

I've had that feelings for years now, about 8 years.

If the GOP wasn't so dead-set on maintaining the status-quo they
could easily stave off all the nonsense the minority liberals are
pushing. That's one of the reasons I like Trump, he doesn't care
about "the way things used to be", he's interested in putting the
US back on top economically and to hell with all this PC nonsense.


I believe you are right about the GOP. I believe those in charge are
absolute idiots, not willing to take a stand. The democrats are very
quick to blame things on republicans, but the republicans never seem
to fight back or stand up for anything.


They are Girlie men voted in by same.

I think most of them are just career politicians who like things the way
they are, what with their exemption from the laws and regulations they
do pass and the comfy life they've set up for themselves.

I think that describes most politicians perfectly.

trader_4
Fri, 27
May 2016 13:38:28 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Most of these shooters were either so fanatic or so deranged that
their chance of getting shot probably never entered into their
decision of target. Almost all of these, the shooter had a
connection to the place, ie it was a workplace, a school they were
associated with, etc. You can't convince me that one of these
shooters goes on one of these rampages and they don't realize that
in the response, eg the police showing up, they have a good chance
of being shot. And that is exactly what happens with a lot of
them.

Hmm...Actually, I think they don't expect to encounter return fire
until the police show up. Giving them temporary free reign to do as
they damn well please, at gunpoint.OTH, If someone else was concealed
carry and the bad guys didn't know about this, the results could be a
lot less shots fired. IE: bad guy gets shot, doesn't get to shoot at
anyone else.

We all know how this ends for the poor sobs stuck in the
building/outside nearby who have no realistic means in which to
defend themselves with.



We also see daily examples of road rage and other bad behavior.
If we encourage and allow most of the population to walk around
with a gun, it's not hard to see how you could wind up with more
of those incidents turning into shootings too. If you start
handing out guns to everyone, it's not just going to be the exec,
the little old lady, etc that have them.

Really? What do you suppose a lot of people did before 'guns became
scary' to some? How in the world did we manage to survive the wild
west/cowboy days. We had raging people then too. Somehow though,
despite the fact a **** load of people were armed and carrying
(without the benefit of modern safety training, etc) we managed to
survive. You had bad people, just like you do now. In many cases, a
gun prevented unnecessary hostilities.

Stage coaches got robbed, cars get robbed today. The difference
between then and now is this: If you did it then, you knew there was
a damn good chance somebody on the coach might atleast TRY to blow
you away for your trouble, so whatever was on that coach better be
worth taking a bullet for.

With a car, in the 'oh please don't hurt me with your gun!' society
we have now, the car jacker knows your most likely going to give it
up without so much as a curse word at them. They might still shoot
you, for the hell of it. OTH, If you've got a sidearm handy, you
atleast have a chance. it's worth taking. What have you got to lose
at this point?

You might even be able to prevent them from getting too close if you
see them coming up on you. Either leave if you can, or let them
visibly know you've already got the drop on them and they'll drop if
you apply a little more pressure to that trigger. If they try raising
theirs or you see their finger so much as twitch, apply the required
force on your trigger. it could be your own life you're saving.

I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by six.

I prefer to carry, and, if a place i'm going doesn't permit it, I
don't continue going to that place.






done, including the latest, his auctioning off the gun. So, IDK
how many other whackos there are out there that shouldn't be
walking around with guns, but I suspect it's a lot.

The fact remains. Criminals are not going to willingly disarm
themselves. If you wish to disarm and hope they will show you some
kind of honor since you aren't carrying, that's your choice. I don't
share the same opinion. As long as criminals have weapons, I'll
continue to keep mine too.

--
MID:
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
zip file but then not be able to unzip it so I can watch it. That
seems VERY clever!
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=145716711400