On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 9:28:41 AM UTC-5, HerHusband wrote:
Don,

To each his own. SWMBO had something tied to one of the checking
accounts. Then, ended up with a hassle when she closed that account;
have to notify the vendor of new account, etc. Easier just to decide
how you're going to pay *when* you go to pay, IMO.

I encountered something like that when someone made unauthorized charges to
our credit card. I had to get a new card which meant updating all the
accounts that were tied to it. Yeah, it's a hassle, but it's a very rare
event. The convenience of not having to spend a lot of time and effort
paying bills each month is worth it.

I don't like flash drives because they hide information regarding
their operating state.

For backup purposes, flash drives cost way too much per gigabyte.

I just tossed a (practically new!) 32G drive

I have a drawer full of old flash drives that I've probably used less than
5-10 times each. We upgrade to new drives with more capacity long before we
wear them out. I have a 256MB and a 512MB drive on my desk now, basically
useless these days, but I don't know what to do with them.

I also have a stack of 8GB SD cards on my desk from our digital cameras. We
upgraded to 16GB or 32GB cards for the camera and camcorder, so now I've
got a bunch of empty cards sitting around.

Obviously, I've got a lot more "data" in my archive. :
I've got about 1T of audio/music, alone

Sheesh, I only have about 100GB on my C: boot drive, a bit over 500GB on my
D: data drive, and roughly 100GB on my daughters computer.

Sorry, I meant "backup BluRay drive, backup *tape* drive, etc." I.e.
whatever hardware is required to access the media on which your data
resides.

Oh, nope, I don't have a backup Blu-Ray drive, but they're still widely
available at this point. I don't really rely on the blu-ray backups to be
readable anyway, they're just one more layer of protection. My main drive
and both external backup drives would have to fail before I need the blu-
ray backup.

apparently all that red meat is not a good thing

I can relate. My parents used to buy a full side of beef and keep it in the
freezer. Almost every meal was a steak, hamburger, etc.

Now I only eat beef once a week or less.

My problem is GOING to bed and STAYING in bed. E.g., I went to bed
just before 6A this morning. And, was up at 8:30A. It's now 11P
and I'm just getting into my "stride"...

I was a night owl when I was a teenager, but now we're usually in bed by
9:30pm and up by 5:30am.

I've got some back problems -- but no back *pain*. I'm very aware of
how I use my back lest I aggravate things.

My build causes a lot of my problems, since my back arches more than most..
Makes me look stupid when I walk too.

But, I usually don't realize I've overworked my back until it's too late. I
get focused on whatever task I'm working on, and end up paying for it
later.

Of course, the older I get, the more out of shape I get, and the easier it
is to overwork my muscles. I still try to act like I'm 30 but my body soon
reminds me I'm over 50.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

Mr.AW, if you're wondering what to do with a lower capacity USB thumb drive, do what I've done. I took a 4gb drive and put all my medical records on it so I can hand it to my doctor or other medical personnel when they ask about my medical history. I've been saved twice by paramedics and the 4gb Sandisk thumb drive on a lanyard around my neck has all my information on it. The fraking medications I take fill a whole page. The first time I saw my new GP in her office, I handed her the thumb drive and she was able to print out a page with all my meds on it. I keep the drive with me on the lanyard around my neck whenever I'm away from any medical facility. If I could convince the doctor or administration to put all my X-rays and ultrasound images on my drive, I'd do that too except I may have to use a higher capacity drive. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle USB Monster

Don,

Yes. I was mentioning it as I have used many different media types
over the years (including 9T tape; having a spare transport was
a HUGE space consideration! : ). It's not enough for me to
have *a* way of accessing the media but also need a BACKUP way
as well! (e.g., my MO drives)

I try to migrate my old data to new technology just for that reason. I no
longer need my old floppy drives, zip drives, SCSI tape drives, VHS
players, Cassette players, DV camcorder, Super8 movie camera, or instamatic
cameras. The data, photos, video, and music have all been moved to modern
devices.

If some new storage medium becomes popular in the future, I'll migrate my
data to that and get rid of my ancient blu-rays and USB drives.

The data is what's important, not the devices its stored on.

My build causes a lot of my problems, since my back arches more than
most. Makes me look stupid when I walk too.
Don't let your knuckles drag on the ground!!

Nope, my back bends the other way, so I look like I'm doing a back bend
while I walk. Head and butt to the back, big stomach hanging out the front.


Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

Mr.AW, if you're wondering what to do with a lower capacity USB thumb
drive, do what I've done. I took a 4gb drive and put all my medical
records on it so I can hand it to my doctor or other medical personnel
when they ask about my medical history. I've been saved twice by
paramedics and the 4gb Sandisk thumb drive on a lanyard around my neck
has all my information on it. The fraking medications I take fill a
whole page. The first time I saw my new GP in her office, I handed her
the thumb drive and she was able to print out a page with all my meds
on it.

Thankfully, I don't take any medications, so my drive would be empty.

Besides, any doctor or nurse in my HMO can pull up my full medical record,
including any medications I might be taking. I can log in here at home and
look it up myself as well.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

Hi Anthony,

On 5/5/2016 9:07 PM, HerHusband wrote:
Yes. I was mentioning it as I have used many different media types
over the years (including 9T tape; having a spare transport was
a HUGE space consideration! : ). It's not enough for me to
have *a* way of accessing the media but also need a BACKUP way
as well! (e.g., my MO drives)

I try to migrate my old data to new technology just for that reason. I no

The operative word there is "try" : For me to do that (and to have DONE
that) consistently, I'd probably spend all of my time "moving data" around.

When I started, moving files electronically (e.g., "on line") wasn't
practical; you'd have to push a file over a phone line to some server
someplace, then have the other party pull it from that server (or,
one of you would have to MAINTAIN that server). At 19.2K -- even
50Kb/s -- that's just not practical for most things. Especially if
you're in different time zones (long distance charges).

[And, having to deal with a client who has their modem misconfigured
so the file arrives corrupted, etc.]

So, files typically got moved through the mail (overnight). And, on a
medium that the client could support. As my tastes in equipment
tended to be "upper shelf", I could either coerce clients into making
those purchases "to be compatible with me" -- or, buy some schlock
device that one of their guys convinced them to purchase so that
*I* could be compatible with *them*!

[Of course, this also meant using some bizarro piece of software that
they'd selected -- or, that came with the device. So, not only did I have
to support the hardware of their choice to transfer data, but, also,
the software AND OS needed to put the data on/off that device!]

Of course, having "coerced" me into buying the one device, they then
lost any influence on my chasing their future device experiments:
"Hey, we already settled on THIS device and THAT software; lets not
go changing things just because you've decided to try something new!"

But, that meant that I was now saddled with that device for the duration of
that project.

When the project is complete, what do I do? Invest the time to move all
of the data onto some better technology that I use? Then, have to worry
about moving it *back* to that original medium if they need some followup
work? (keep in mind, I support projects "indefinitely")

Easier to just archive the equipment, software, OS, etc. WITH the project!

And, hope that they "mature" before they want to start another project!

[I've got all sorts of bizarre tape media (DDS2, DDS3, DDS4, DLT, DLT III,
DLT IV, SDLT, Ultrium, Ultrium2, DAT72, 8mm, 9T, etc.); an assortment of
different "cartridge disks" (ZIP, ORB, 3" MO, 5" MO, MD, Syquest dogs, etc.);
floppies (3", 5", 8"); CD's & DVD's; PCMCIA/CF/SD/MMC/ cards (and their
smaller variants); along with "drives" to access each of them -- actually, I
recycled my last 9T so those are now orphans]

Even migrating from hard disks to BIGGER hard disks takes a fair bit of time!

In the past, I would (human nature) try to impose some order on the data.
So, try to put projects on the same medium. Or, in a common directory.
Then, sorted by client, etc. So, it was never a case of simply bulk copying
from one medium to a DENSER medium.

[Consider how long it takes to rip hundreds of CD's -- and, unless you've got
a big "changer", you're pretty much tethered to the "process" for the duration!
For a REAL chore, consider how long it takes to scan 35mm slides!! : Or,
*paper* records! Even with an ADF, you st there on pins and needles wondering
if a sheet will scan "crooked" (and need to be reprocessed)]

And, its not the sort of task that you can easily/reliably farm out:
"OK, I need you to take this 3480 tape cartridge and use Tommy's Super
Terrific Tape Backup Program, running on a DOS 3.3 machine with this
*particular* SCSI HBA (because ASPI didn't exist at that time) and copy
the data into a portion of the file system from which you can later
transfer it onto this new fangled DLT drive -- that isn't supported
under DOS 3.3! So, you'll have to figure out how to transfer those
files onto another machine that has a more modern SCSI HBA and suitable
software to talk to the newer drive. And, I need some reassurance that
you will do this CORRECTLY lest I LOSE this data in the process!"

Being able to electronically transfer files was a HUGE improvement
for me! I only had to deal with "media" for "final deliverables".

And, my new approach to "archive organization" frees me from the
natural tendency to want to organize things, hierarchically; I can
just put things anywhere and let the database tell me where they
are located! And, with a simple query, I can tell which files
have NO "backups" and take steps to replicate them elsewhere!

longer need my old floppy drives, zip drives, SCSI tape drives, VHS
players, Cassette players, DV camcorder, Super8 movie camera, or instamatic
cameras. The data, photos, video, and music have all been moved to modern
devices.

I've not even tried to scan my old photos. A week scanning ~50 year old 35mm
slides was grueling enough! ("Hmm... this slide is BACKWARDS! Uncle Fred
was LEFT handed!!")

I have probably 100 LPs "new" that I've carefully preserved that are awaiting
a few weeks of my time to transfer to digital media. The same is true of my
cassette library.

SWMBO often buys "lesson tapes" that aren't available on DVD. So, I keep
a VCR to copy those onto digital media. Of course, that also requires sitting
down and manually sorting out where to insert chapter markers (cuz tapes
don't have that concept!). And, of course, a nice, useful set of menus
to make it easier for her to find what she wants.

My technical library (dead tree edition) is simply impractical to digitize.
From time to time, I'll spend a day searching for electronic copies of
titles that would let me trim them from my bookshelves. But, often the
expense of re-buying the title is simply not worth the space I'll recover!

So, it becomes easier to just support the media that's already in place
rather than chasing the latest technology in the hope that it "saves"
something, in the end.

A friend has commented that data NEVER gets discarded. So, you have to
assume it will always grow -- to consume all of the (storage) space
available for it!

[Aside from client data, I really have no idea what I would WANT to
discard! And, even among the client data, there are probably many
things I'd like to retain just for reference: "How did I solve that
similar problem for XYZ, Inc?"]

If some new storage medium becomes popular in the future, I'll migrate my
data to that and get rid of my ancient blu-rays and USB drives.

The data is what's important, not the devices its stored on.

No, the *time* is important! The data may NEVER be needed! :-(
That's the calculus I have to make each time I try to migrate some
old data onto new media; how much time am I willing to put into this
on the CHANCE that I'll need it in the future?

Historically, I rarely have to go back to client projects after
delivery. I'm not the sort that gets drawn into endless "versions"
of a product. So, unless I made a mistake/bug somewhere -- OR, the
client "loses" the delivered copy -- I can usually just leave
the project on a copy of the delivered media, indefinitely.

I have, however, taken to chasing down PDF copies of data sheets and
databooks that I used for projects, burning these onto a CD and
removing the dead tree versions of those documents from my files.
This often lets me shrink a 6" thick folder down to 2" without
any loss of information!

My build causes a lot of my problems, since my back arches more than
most. Makes me look stupid when I walk too.
Don't let your knuckles drag on the ground!!

Nope, my back bends the other way, so I look like I'm doing a back bend
while I walk. Head and butt to the back, big stomach hanging out the front.

Hmmm... I can see that would make any sort of labor requiring bending
(forwards) tedious!

Howdy Don,

The operative word there is "try". For me to do that consistently,
I'd probably spend all of my time "moving data" around.

Thankfully, I have a lot less data than you to move around. It's not a
big deal to copy data from a smaller hard drive to a larger hard drive,
other than the hour or three that it might take to transfer the data.

When I started, moving files electronically wasn't practical

Agreed, it was a lot harder to transfer data from cassette tapes or
floppy discs. You had to sit there and baby sit each transfer which
usually took a very long time.

Thankfully, once it's in digital form it just gets faster and faster to
migrate that data to new devices.

Even migrating from hard disks to BIGGER hard disks takes a fair bit
of time!

Yeah, but it's usually something you can start and walk away from.

Or, *paper* records! Even with an ADF, you sit there on pins and
needles wondering if a sheet will scan "crooked"

It is definitely easier to scan papers as they come in than trying to go
back and scan piles of paperwork. I did that recently when I went
through our fire safe, took a couple of days to scan them all.

I've not even tried to scan my old photos. A week scanning ~50 year
old 35mm slides was grueling enough!

Same here. I still have a box of 35mm negatives in our safe deposit box
from our "pre-digital" days. Eventually I want to scan them all but I
know that will be a huge undertaking that I never seem to have time for.

I have probably 100 LPs "new" that I've carefully preserved that are
awaiting a few weeks of my time to transfer to digital media. The
same is true of my cassette library.

I transferred my old LP's to cassette tapes, or simply bought new tapes
to replace them. When CD's came along, I transferred the cassettes to
CD's, or bought new CD's to replace them again. I probably bought several
of my albums two or three times over the years.

Thankfully, once the music was on CD's it was in digital form and I could
finally start copying it losslessly.

Some of my older, less popular, music was sounding rather bad after
multiple lossy transfers. I found digital versions of many of them on
places like iTunes. The rest I just bid farewell to.

SWMBO often buys "lesson tapes" that aren't available on DVD. So, I
keep a VCR to copy those onto digital media.

We got rid of our VHS tapes long ago, but I do have three VCR's still in
storage. Every now and then I get a VHS tape I need to transfer, or a
family member asks me to transfer old videos for them.

A friend has commented that data NEVER gets discarded.

Actually, I do go through my data from time to time and delete out old
files that are no longer needed.

I don't need bank statements for accounts we closed 20+ years ago.

I don't need receipts for stuff I threw away many years ago.

I don't need generic scenery photos from ten years ago if we can't even
tell where they were taken.

And so on... I don't do it all at once, of course, but I'll weed old
stuff out when I discover it. It doesn't make a huge dent in storage
space, but it's easier to find the useful stuff when the useless stuff
isn't cluttering everything up.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On Thu, 05 May 2016 23:02:38 -0700, Don Y wrote:

using some bizarro piece of software that [...] came with the device.

My favourite was some sort of 'backpack' - type tape drive that used the
parallel or SCSI port and could hold a couple of Gb.

At that time, CD-ROM was becoming popular for distribution. Everyone had
CD-ROM readers, but not everyone had CD-ROM writers.

My boss asked if I could make him a copy of the files on a CD which he
needed to return to whoever lended it out. I said yeas, and backed-up his
CD to a tape, and of course ran a verify afterwards to be adamantly certain
that the tape had an exact representation of every byte on the CD.

During the next few weeks, I ordered a CD writer, and eventually he asks
for a re-creation of the CD. I load up the tape, select all the files, and
press 'restore'.

Up pops a box: The files you selected are read-only. Please select files to
which you have proper access and try again.

--
http://mduffy.x10host.com/index.htm

Greetings!

On 5/6/2016 7:34 AM, HerHusband wrote:
The operative word there is "try". For me to do that consistently,
I'd probably spend all of my time "moving data" around.

Thankfully, I have a lot less data than you to move around. It's not a
big deal to copy data from a smaller hard drive to a larger hard drive,
other than the hour or three that it might take to transfer the data.

Wait until you have to "fsck" a 3T disk. Or, "scandisk"! :

When I started, moving files electronically wasn't practical

Agreed, it was a lot harder to transfer data from cassette tapes or
floppy discs. You had to sit there and baby sit each transfer which
usually took a very long time.

I was referring to the effort of transferring a "project" to a client
(located in another city/state). Nowadays, I can email huge attachments.
Or, put a file on an HTTP/FTP server and let them grab it "directly"...
at very high transfer rates! Years ago, it was impractical to move
many megabytes using modems (and paying for phone calls). Most of
the clients I dealt with would look at me blankly if I suggested they
set up a UUCP node (so we could benefit from the transport of others)

Thankfully, once it's in digital form it just gets faster and faster to
migrate that data to new devices.

Even migrating from hard disks to BIGGER hard disks takes a fair bit
of time!

Yeah, but it's usually something you can start and walk away from.

In the past, the problem has always been one of "organizing" the data.
Which drive has which files on it? (when the drives are sitting on a
shelf). With my new database approach, I don't have to worry about that!
Let *it* keep track of what's where so I can browse through the database
instead of having to drag out one drive after another, hoping to stumble
on what I'm looking for! Previously, I'd have to "ls -alR" each disk
and keep those "lists" on a live machine to scan sequentially in the hope
of a file/directory name ringing a bell.

Or, *paper* records! Even with an ADF, you sit there on pins and
needles wondering if a sheet will scan "crooked"

It is definitely easier to scan papers as they come in than trying to go
back and scan piles of paperwork. I did that recently when I went
through our fire safe, took a couple of days to scan them all.

I have *big* boxes of paper documents. E.g., my MULTICS collection is
several cubic feet. I'd need a couple of spare scanners as I'm sure
I'd "burn out" the ones I have! Esp the ADF's!

I've not even tried to scan my old photos. A week scanning ~50 year
old 35mm slides was grueling enough!

Same here. I still have a box of 35mm negatives in our safe deposit box
from our "pre-digital" days. Eventually I want to scan them all but I
know that will be a huge undertaking that I never seem to have time for.

If they aren't "too old", *pay* someone to do it for you (a service
bureau). In my case, they were really old and even the emulsions were
in sad shape. So, a fair bit of TLC was required to get a useful image.

I have probably 100 LPs "new" that I've carefully preserved that are
awaiting a few weeks of my time to transfer to digital media. The
same is true of my cassette library.

I transferred my old LP's to cassette tapes, or simply bought new tapes
to replace them. When CD's came along, I transferred the cassettes to
CD's, or bought new CD's to replace them again. I probably bought several
of my albums two or three times over the years.

I did that for my "mainstream" LP's. It was easier just to buy them over
again. These, however, don't exist in CD form. So, I either listen to
them AS vinyl or take the time to do the transfer myself. With a fairly
good turntable/cartridge and 24b digital, you can "read once" and do all
the fixup and downsampling to 16b in post. But, its still many hours to
make a usable "CD" from each LP.

Thankfully, once the music was on CD's it was in digital form and I could
finally start copying it losslessly.

But never with any greater precision than your original choice of digitizing.

Some of my older, less popular, music was sounding rather bad after
multiple lossy transfers. I found digital versions of many of them on
places like iTunes. The rest I just bid farewell to.

SWMBO often buys "lesson tapes" that aren't available on DVD. So, I
keep a VCR to copy those onto digital media.

We got rid of our VHS tapes long ago, but I do have three VCR's still in
storage. Every now and then I get a VHS tape I need to transfer, or a
family member asks me to transfer old videos for them.

I have one located adjacent to my multimedia workstation. I can digitize
a tape and then handle the post-processing on that workstation to create
the final "DVD", MP4, etc.

A friend has commented that data NEVER gets discarded.

Actually, I do go through my data from time to time and delete out old
files that are no longer needed.

I don't need bank statements for accounts we closed 20+ years ago.

I don't need receipts for stuff I threw away many years ago.

I need all supporting information for my business, "just in case".
The amount of space I'll save in a file cabinet is nothing compared
to the hassle I could face trying to document a KEOGH contribution
or verify my adoption of specific new terms of the "plan". We dont
need receipts for many of the household items as credit card statements,
checks and/or the records of the folks who sold it to us are usually
enough (for warranty repair/replace).

I don't need generic scenery photos from ten years ago if we can't even
tell where they were taken.

Thankfully, I'm not big on photos! I only use them to "document
things": this is a photo of the PCB for project X; here is a photo
of the roof repair from 2001 (helpful if I notice a part of the roof
developing a REPEAT problem); this is what water coming off the back
of the house looks like in a Monsoon; etc.

And so on... I don't do it all at once, of course, but I'll weed old
stuff out when I discover it. It doesn't make a huge dent in storage
space, but it's easier to find the useful stuff when the useless stuff
isn't cluttering everything up.

I have a lot of research software/publications in my archive. In some
cases, I have the "only" copy (that *I* know of -- google won't find
anything; someone LIKE me may have a copy squirreled away) of many of
these things. Usually, I have the entire RCS/SCCS/CVS repository on
hand so I can actually recreate the project at any point in its
existence to see *what* was done to effect a particular change recorded
in the log.

Plus, the same with each of *my* projects (hardware and software).

And, of course, all of the tools I've purchased over the years.

If I was starting over, I'd build virtual machines for each
"development environment" and just archive those in their entirety.
And, "just say no" to oddball hardware that places constraints on WHERE
those VM's can be run!

(Unfortunately, historically, this has never been possible; an ICE
from vendor A might require a parallel port to communicate with my
host while one from vendor B might use a serial port and vendor C
a proprietaray "add in ISA card". Given that I'm *building* things,
I can't just watch my code execute on a CRT and claim that it works.
I need to watch the motor spin and the mechanism move -- and verify
that it stops when it reaches the limit of its travel, etc. Or, verify
the number of coins dispensed from a hopper are appropriate for the
"payout". Or, determine the smallest volume of a blood sample that I
can reliably detect. etc. So, hardware is ALWAYS involved in my
projects...)

On 5/6/2016 7:39 AM, Mike Duffy wrote:
On Thu, 05 May 2016 23:02:38 -0700, Don Y wrote:

using some bizarro piece of software that [...] came with the device.

My favourite was some sort of 'backpack' - type tape drive that used the
parallel or SCSI port and could hold a couple of Gb.

I can recall using VHS video recorders (with a proprietary "black box"
that went to/from digital/analog format) as backup media. And,
HOPING that the tape was "portable" to another VCR if yours died!

At that time, CD-ROM was becoming popular for distribution. Everyone had
CD-ROM readers, but not everyone had CD-ROM writers.

My boss asked if I could make him a copy of the files on a CD which he
needed to return to whoever lended it out. I said yeas, and backed-up his
CD to a tape, and of course ran a verify afterwards to be adamantly certain
that the tape had an exact representation of every byte on the CD.

During the next few weeks, I ordered a CD writer, and eventually he asks
for a re-creation of the CD. I load up the tape, select all the files, and
press 'restore'.

Up pops a box: The files you selected are read-only. Please select files to
which you have proper access and try again.

And, you can't use ANY OTHER TOOL (software) to access the files.
Someone has invented their own special way of storing the data on
their own special device (tape).

The same is true, today, of COTS NAS devices. It *probably* runs some FOSS
OS. But, there's no guarantee that you can pull the disk out of the
NAS (when it dies) and try to recover the contents using a desktop
machine (e.g., with the drive installed in a USB carrier).

Or, if the "boot" drive in that NAS fails, you might discover that
you can't simply replace it -- even if you have the files safely
stored elsewhere -- as the software/firmware that makes the NAS
operational resides in a "hidden" place on that FAILED drive.
And, you don't have a way of copying it onto your new drive cuz
the old drive is kaput! (ditto if you are trying to upgrade
the disk before it fails)

Hence the reliance on having a backup of the *hardware* as well!

(some NAS's will complain if they encounter a "foreign" drive and
promptly offer to reformat it for you -- wiping all that precious
data in the process! : )

[I had this in mind when I concocted my archive scheme; I can simply
move a drive to another machine and access it as a "regular" drive
(if the "appliance" that normally supports it dies). The NAS
and redundancy functions are not tied to the drive or its actual
location!]

On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 11:20:10 PM UTC-5, HerHusband wrote:
Mr.AW, if you're wondering what to do with a lower capacity USB thumb
drive, do what I've done. I took a 4gb drive and put all my medical
records on it so I can hand it to my doctor or other medical personnel
when they ask about my medical history. I've been saved twice by
paramedics and the 4gb Sandisk thumb drive on a lanyard around my neck
has all my information on it. The fraking medications I take fill a
whole page. The first time I saw my new GP in her office, I handed her
the thumb drive and she was able to print out a page with all my meds
on it.

Thankfully, I don't take any medications, so my drive would be empty.

Besides, any doctor or nurse in my HMO can pull up my full medical record,
including any medications I might be taking. I can log in here at home and
look it up myself as well.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

I get asked all the time about medications that I take and what I stopped taking. I'd peel the labels off my pill bottles then stick them on a page of 8 1/2 X 11 pasteboard. I'd scan it into my computer and have an image of labels on meds that different doctors have given me. It shows the pharmacy and the instructions for taking the medications. I get on the Internet and lookup all the meds I'm given and have found that some of them interact poorly with others. One medication I was given interacted with a blood pressure med I took for years. It caused me to wet the bed. It was embarrassing when I was 7 and extremely mortifying when I was over 60. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Bedwetting Monster

On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 4:45:07 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 5/5/2016 1:07 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 3:07:59 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

Do you KNOW what it costs you to operate your vehicles? Home upkeep?
Feed your family? Maintain your health?

Not a damned clue. Less than our disposable income, certainly.

Especially "maintain your health". My husband has multiple
prescriptions and frequent doctor visits. All of that is
entirely his affair, and I don't even look at the bills, even
though they're paid out of our joint account.

Does he know when the prices of his meds are changing? Or,
simply pay whatever the pharmacist tells him is "due"? How does
he know when to start shopping for another pharmacy? Or, when
to bring up alternative treatments with his MD?

He pays a small co-pay. The rest is paid by our insurance.

He recently went to a different pharmacy, not because of lower
prices, but because Walgreens were stupid and jerked him around.

Part of knowing is having data that you can consult. I no longer
want to bother trying to REMEMBER what I paid for some item last
week -- or last month/year.

What I paid in the past is largely irrelevant. I'm not going to
do without (for example) coffee because the price has gone up.

Shoot, I don't even keep a check register. I look at the monthly
statement online, to see if anything looks suspicious. I assume
their computer can do the arithmetic. It's what they're good at.

Computers are best at *remembering*! Save me the hassle of adding up
a column of 4 or 5 digit numbers, once a month? Pfah. Save me the
trouble of REMEMBERING those numbers and you've earned your keep!

As I run a business, I am keen on where the money goes -- and being
able to document that to the tax man, clients, etc. "Gee, I forgot
to bill that client for these supplies that I purchased on his
behalf. frown I guess I'll just have to treat them as a *gift*
for said client as the contract is now closed double frown"

I don't run a business. We're both salaried, so our paychecks
never vary.

Of course, I generally use or see him using whatever the $37.23 bought
at Home Depot.

Would you know that *it* was the $37.23 purchase? And, not the $10 purchase?
Should you *have* to be involved in all of his activities in order to vouch
for same?

I don't *have* to be involved; I want to be involved. If I didn't see
the $37.23 thingy in use, I'd never even think about the $37.23.

We are very concerned with where our monies go. We never "buy on time"
(finance), carry balances, etc. Because we KNOW that we will have what
we need available when we need it.

Either do we, except we've got a year and a half left on our 15-year
mortgage.

"How will you be paying for this (car, washing machine, 2000 sq ft of tile,
20 tons of stone, medical bill, etc)?"

"Cash. (or check/charge -- same difference)"

We don't get surprised when a bank or credit card statement shows up
weeks later. And, don't prematurely reinvest monies that we'll be needing
for a big ticket purchase next month, etc.

Either do we. We don't undertake to spend money that we do not have.

Charles Dickens put it best:

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery."

Cindy Hamilton

On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 9:25:50 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

So, we long ago learned to clue each other in on upcoming expenditures
(beyond the piddling expenses). E.g., I'll soon be painting the roof so
she should expect me to be shelling out a lot of money for paint.

Actually, I've been wondering about that. What sort of roof do you
have that requires painting?

(Bringing us back around to home repair.)

Cindy Hamilton

On 5/6/2016 11:47 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 9:25:50 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

So, we long ago learned to clue each other in on upcoming expenditures
(beyond the piddling expenses). E.g., I'll soon be painting the roof so
she should expect me to be shelling out a lot of money for paint.

Actually, I've been wondering about that. What sort of roof do you
have that requires painting?

Homes here are either pitched roofs or flat roofs.

Pitched are either ceramic tile, asphalt tile, "metal/tin",
built up or torch-sealed felt.

Flat are either "built up" (gravel over felt), bitumen (felt),
rubber membrane or a fiberglass membrane.

To increase heat reflectance, you typically paint the roof
(white or aluminum). Most folks (incl roofers) think the
paint is actually *sealing* the roof. And, use that to
pitch more expensive paints (higher concentration of solids).
Of course, if you're relying on paint to keep your roof water
tight, you've got some serious problems! :

As the paint is exposed to the sun (UV + heat) and scouring
effects of windblown dust, it tends to degrade in 5-7 years,
despite how thick it is (coverage is 60-100 sq ft per gallon).

The more significant "home maintenance" aspect is NOT the
painting but, rather, getting up there and having a look at
the roof regularly. As it is flat, things tend to accumulate/sit
up there (e.g., pine needles). They, in turn, trap moisture.
Which eventually "rots" the paint.

[I probably pull 30 pounds of pine needles off the roof every
couple of months -- and *we* don't have any pine trees in the
yard!]

Also, as the roofing must roll *up* the sides of the house
(think of the roof as having a wall around it), there is
potential for the house to "move" and open cracks/tears in
the edges which would allow water to seep into the structure
(inside the walls).

Instead of tackling the roof every 5-7 years, I try to paint
1/5th of it every year. This gives me the opportunity to
remove debris piled up there and inspect/patch. There are
lots of things (intentionally) poking through the roof
(vents, sewer stacks, water/electric services, etc.) and
each is a place that can easily develop a small leak.

But, it also limits the effort required to clean the roof (TSP)
in preparation for painting -- as I'm only tackling 1/5th of
the roof at a time.

Most other homes in the neighborhood have replaced their roofs.
Our vigilance has allowed this roof to remain intact for ~25
years, already.

Painting can easily approach 1000-1500 (depending on who
you hire and how thorough they are; seldom do they invest
much time patching -- just slather paint on anything that
*looks* like it may be a problem). A new roof is easily
upwards of $5000 for a simple "felt" roof.

OTOH, DIY and you're talking closer to $120/year.

On Friday, May 6, 2016 at 3:53:12 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 5/6/2016 11:47 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 9:25:50 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

So, we long ago learned to clue each other in on upcoming expenditures
(beyond the piddling expenses). E.g., I'll soon be painting the roof so
she should expect me to be shelling out a lot of money for paint.

Actually, I've been wondering about that. What sort of roof do you
have that requires painting?

Homes here are either pitched roofs or flat roofs.

Pitched are either ceramic tile, asphalt tile, "metal/tin",
built up or torch-sealed felt.

Flat are either "built up" (gravel over felt), bitumen (felt),
rubber membrane or a fiberglass membrane.

To increase heat reflectance, you typically paint the roof
(white or aluminum). Most folks (incl roofers) think the
paint is actually *sealing* the roof. And, use that to
pitch more expensive paints (higher concentration of solids).
Of course, if you're relying on paint to keep your roof water
tight, you've got some serious problems! :

As the paint is exposed to the sun (UV + heat) and scouring
effects of windblown dust, it tends to degrade in 5-7 years,
despite how thick it is (coverage is 60-100 sq ft per gallon).

The more significant "home maintenance" aspect is NOT the
painting but, rather, getting up there and having a look at
the roof regularly. As it is flat, things tend to accumulate/sit
up there (e.g., pine needles). They, in turn, trap moisture.
Which eventually "rots" the paint.

[I probably pull 30 pounds of pine needles off the roof every
couple of months -- and *we* don't have any pine trees in the
yard!]

Also, as the roofing must roll *up* the sides of the house
(think of the roof as having a wall around it), there is
potential for the house to "move" and open cracks/tears in
the edges which would allow water to seep into the structure
(inside the walls).

Instead of tackling the roof every 5-7 years, I try to paint
1/5th of it every year. This gives me the opportunity to
remove debris piled up there and inspect/patch. There are
lots of things (intentionally) poking through the roof
(vents, sewer stacks, water/electric services, etc.) and
each is a place that can easily develop a small leak.

But, it also limits the effort required to clean the roof (TSP)
in preparation for painting -- as I'm only tackling 1/5th of
the roof at a time.

Most other homes in the neighborhood have replaced their roofs.
Our vigilance has allowed this roof to remain intact for ~25
years, already.

Painting can easily approach 1000-1500 (depending on who
you hire and how thorough they are; seldom do they invest
much time patching -- just slather paint on anything that
*looks* like it may be a problem). A new roof is easily
upwards of $5000 for a simple "felt" roof.

OTOH, DIY and you're talking closer to $120/year.

Thanks. That was interesting. I live in the snowy country where
flat roofs are not very popular, and solar loading is not extreme.
The vast majority of houses here are asphalt shingle, and I've
noticed a trend toward lighter colors. A few years ago we replaced
brown shingles with... mostly greyish-beige, I guess you could
call it. It's a very common color here.

Cindy Hamilton

On 5/6/2016 11:45 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 4:45:07 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 5/5/2016 1:07 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 3:07:59 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

Do you KNOW what it costs you to operate your vehicles? Home upkeep?
Feed your family? Maintain your health?

Not a damned clue. Less than our disposable income, certainly.

Especially "maintain your health". My husband has multiple
prescriptions and frequent doctor visits. All of that is entirely his
affair, and I don't even look at the bills, even though they're paid out
of our joint account.

Does he know when the prices of his meds are changing? Or, simply pay
whatever the pharmacist tells him is "due"? How does he know when to
start shopping for another pharmacy? Or, when to bring up alternative
treatments with his MD?

He pays a small co-pay. The rest is paid by our insurance.

He recently went to a different pharmacy, not because of lower prices, but
because Walgreens were stupid and jerked him around.

Be thankful everything appears to be "a small copay". I have friends
who shell out hundreds of dollars per month, "out of pocket", despite
insurance. They are clearly concerned when the price goes up as
THEY bear the cost of that.

Part of knowing is having data that you can consult. I no longer want to
bother trying to REMEMBER what I paid for some item last week -- or last
month/year.

What I paid in the past is largely irrelevant. I'm not going to do without
(for example) coffee because the price has gone up.

We aren't hostage to any of our purchases. One of the chocolates
that SWMBO regularly consumed increased 50% in the past year. She
switched to alternatives that were more affordable and just as
tastey.

The same was true of the (canned) chili she was eating; we found
another supplier (of the exact same product!) at a lower cost.

Instead of just wondering why we're (apparently) "spending more",
we know what is driving those increases -- and take action to
control them.

It's not what you MAKE but, rather, what you SPEND!

Shoot, I don't even keep a check register. I look at the monthly
statement online, to see if anything looks suspicious. I assume their
computer can do the arithmetic. It's what they're good at.

Computers are best at *remembering*! Save me the hassle of adding up a
column of 4 or 5 digit numbers, once a month? Pfah. Save me the trouble
of REMEMBERING those numbers and you've earned your keep!

As I run a business, I am keen on where the money goes -- and being able
to document that to the tax man, clients, etc. "Gee, I forgot to bill
that client for these supplies that I purchased on his behalf. frown I
guess I'll just have to treat them as a *gift* for said client as the
contract is now closed double frown"

I don't run a business. We're both salaried, so our paychecks never vary.

Income is only one side of the equation. Do you know where your
money is *going*? Or, do you just feel pleased when your bank balance
is ever increasing (regardless of whether or not it is increasing
as fast as it COULD?)

Of course, I generally use or see him using whatever the $37.23
bought at Home Depot.

Would you know that *it* was the $37.23 purchase? And, not the $10
purchase? Should you *have* to be involved in all of his activities in
order to vouch for same?

I don't *have* to be involved; I want to be involved. If I didn't see
the $37.23 thingy in use, I'd never even think about the $37.23.

We are very concerned with where our monies go. We never "buy on time"
(finance), carry balances, etc. Because we KNOW that we will have what we
need available when we need it.

Either do we, except we've got a year and a half left on our 15-year
mortgage.

We don't buy on time. INCLUDING the house, the car, etc. A large part
of how we can do that is by knowing where our money is going. And, doing
for ourselves.

It costs $75 to have a tree (5G) planted, here. Not counting the cost
of the tree! I've planted 10 in the past few years. And that doesn't
count the 60+ other shrubs, etc.

The neighbor had a trivial one-zone irrigation system installed for his
small garden -- for $1200. I've buried 1500 ft of 1/2" line -- for the
cost of the pipe (and the 19 valves to control it).

I've got dirty fingernails; neighbor "lost" his house.

"How will you be paying for this (car, washing machine, 2000 sq ft of
tile, 20 tons of stone, medical bill, etc)?"

"Cash. (or check/charge -- same difference)"

We don't get surprised when a bank or credit card statement shows up weeks
later. And, don't prematurely reinvest monies that we'll be needing for a
big ticket purchase next month, etc.

Either do we. We don't undertake to spend money that we do not have.

It's not just having the money but, also, having the money accessible.
We could run out tomorrow and buy ANOTHER (second) home. But, would take
a big hit getting AT the money to do so!

So, we plan when we will need which amounts so the money is "available".
If we *both* ASSUME there's liquid assets for some particular purchase
without coordinating those, then we'll probably both be annoyed when
we have to scurry to free up those funds WHEN THE STATEMENT ARRIVES
(if we didn't TRACK the expenses as we incurred them).

Charles Dickens put it best:

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen
and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure
twenty pounds nought and six, result misery."

Cindy Hamilton

On Friday, May 6, 2016 at 4:09:29 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

Income is only one side of the equation. Do you know where your
money is *going*? Or, do you just feel pleased when your bank balance
is ever increasing (regardless of whether or not it is increasing
as fast as it COULD?)

I do feel pleased about the ever-increasing bank balance.

Of course it could increase faster. We could shut off the hot tub
and not have the outrageous electric bills. We could cancel our
cable service.

We're not going to do any of that, and no amount of data entry
would change what we're doing. We buy what we want, when we
want it, and we have enough money to cover our purchases and
save for the future. Happily, "what we want" isn't very much
or very big.

Your net worth is almost certainly higher than mine. I'm
very happy for you.

We don't buy on time. INCLUDING the house, the car, etc. A large part
of how we can do that is by knowing where our money is going. And, doing
for ourselves.

If we didn't have a mortgage, we'd still be paying rent.

It costs $75 to have a tree (5G) planted, here. Not counting the cost
of the tree! I've planted 10 in the past few years. And that doesn't
count the 60+ other shrubs, etc.

The neighbor had a trivial one-zone irrigation system installed for his
small garden -- for $1200. I've buried 1500 ft of 1/2" line -- for the
cost of the pipe (and the 19 valves to control it).

I've got dirty fingernails; neighbor "lost" his house.

Sadly, my husband's joints are breaking down, so we're going to have
to start hiring some things done for us. Up until now, we've
pretty much done everything ourselves, too. Someplace we've
got a picture of me pushing a wheelbarrow of concrete around.

Cindy Hamilton

On 5/6/2016 1:44 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Friday, May 6, 2016 at 4:09:29 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

Income is only one side of the equation. Do you know where your
money is *going*? Or, do you just feel pleased when your bank balance
is ever increasing (regardless of whether or not it is increasing
as fast as it COULD?)

I do feel pleased about the ever-increasing bank balance.

Of course it could increase faster. We could shut off the hot tub
and not have the outrageous electric bills. We could cancel our
cable service.

We don't have cable (more interesting things to do than watch TV).

OTOH, we spend a fair amount on electricity for my various computers
(there are 5 running, as I type this). And, a sh*tload on water/sewer
to keep the citrus growing.

But, we don't eat out, drink, take vacations, etc. How you spend your
money is YOUR choice -- and your problem/responsibility. We like
knowing how ours is spent so we can reevaluate the choices that
we've (often silently!) made -- instead of just repeating "learned
behavior".

We're not going to do any of that, and no amount of data entry
would change what we're doing. We buy what we want, when we
want it, and we have enough money to cover our purchases and
save for the future. Happily, "what we want" isn't very much
or very big.

Your net worth is almost certainly higher than mine. I'm
very happy for you.

It has nothing to do with "net worth". We have friends who live in
million dollar homes, have maids, landscapers, pool boys, are
always traveling, etc. Cell phones with pricey data plans ("Oooh!
Somebody texted me!"). Fancy clothes (I wear jeans and a t-shirt
every day -- and *shoes* when we go out!). Coiffed hair/nails.

We elect to have none of those things as they aren't in line with our
priorities.

We like being able to do what we want, when we want, without having to
worry about living beyond our means -- and have some confidence in the
QUALITY of all those things.

Of course, much of that means we have to do a lot for ourselves.

We've neighbors who would never think of dirtying their hands
under the hood of a car -- who DELIGHT in the "service" their
dealership provides ("And they give us a FREE loaner!" Do you
REALLY think that loaner is "free"? : ). OTOH, their vehicles
are always in the shop; ours, never.

I spend a few hours every week baking -- to offset the cost/inconvenience
of finding suitable baked goods. And, lately, a few hours "making
chocolates" for similar reasons (I'm sure if "money were no object"
we could locate similar items -- and pay to have them shipped here).

I spend a day each month/6 wks babysitting a large pot of tomato
sauce -- instead of buying "bottled". We prepare our own meals every
day -- instead of paying someone else to do the same (taking just as
much TIME).

There's no free lunch; you "pay" in some way or another. We just
find ways to pay that give us more control over our lives and less
reliance on others.

We don't buy on time. INCLUDING the house, the car, etc. A large part
of how we can do that is by knowing where our money is going. And, doing
for ourselves.

If we didn't have a mortgage, we'd still be paying rent.

It costs $75 to have a tree (5G) planted, here. Not counting the cost
of the tree! I've planted 10 in the past few years. And that doesn't
count the 60+ other shrubs, etc.

The neighbor had a trivial one-zone irrigation system installed for his
small garden -- for $1200. I've buried 1500 ft of 1/2" line -- for the
cost of the pipe (and the 19 valves to control it).

I've got dirty fingernails; neighbor "lost" his house.

Sadly, my husband's joints are breaking down, so we're going to have
to start hiring some things done for us. Up until now, we've
pretty much done everything ourselves, too. Someplace we've
got a picture of me pushing a wheelbarrow of concrete around.

I suspect you will find the difference to be alarming! Not just
in terms of cost but, also, in terms of the quality of work.

"If you want it done RIGHT..."

I've been aggressively trying to get ahead of things that WILL present
problems in the future. E.g., I felled all the tall trees on the property
so I don't have to worry about hiring someone to do that later. And, no
need to rake leaves. I'll paint the house exterior, soon -- knowing
that the NEXT time I'll probably have to hire someone (but push that
out 15-20 years hence). SWMBO's new car will probably be the last car
she *drives* (assuming she gets 15+ years out of it -- 70K miles). I'll
replace the roof in a few years (still researching that) and that
should be the last time THAT will need to be done.

On 5/6/2016 1:03 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
Thanks. That was interesting. I live in the snowy country where
flat roofs are not very popular, and solar loading is not extreme.

Yes. Here, even pitched roofs are very shallow. No "snow load"
to accommodate so the pitch is more a stylistic issue. (of course,
some roofing materials *require* pitch)

The vast majority of houses here are asphalt shingle, and I've
noticed a trend toward lighter colors.

The relentless sun cooks the asphalt shingles, here. And, any
load *on* them (e.g., walking!) damages them in short order
(they become very soft and easy to tear as your feet shuffle
across them).

Ceramic tile is, in theory, indestructible. But for the roof beneath!
And, as you can't easily INSPECT the roof beneath, you don't know
you have a problem until you see water stains on the ceiling.

With our roof, I have to be aware of outdoor temperatures/exposure
and how "pliable" the roof is likely to be. E.g., walking on it
on the coldest winter nights (which I often do to watch meteor
showers) leaves it prone to "cracking" -- lack of snow load
concerns means the roofs tend to be flimsy... it doesn't take much
structure to hold up a layer of PAINT!

Many homes have kit on the roofs (furnaces, heat pumps, air conditioner
compressors, swamp coolers, etc.) that need service from time to time.
So, you're vulnerable to the actions of any "maintenance personnel"
(who are more interested in fixing the kit than in worrying about
any wear and tear they are putting on your roof!)

The biggest risk, however, is from the glare that comes off the roof.
As the sun is always bright and the roof is painted white, you can
easily go "snow blind"! In one of my first efforts on the roof, I
came down to fetch something out of the garage. I had so quickly moved
from the bright light of sun-on-white into the RELATIVE darkness of
the garage that I was completely unprepared for the ensuing BLINDNESS!
"Cripes! I can't SEE!!!"

A few years ago we replaced
brown shingles with... mostly greyish-beige, I guess you could
call it. It's a very common color here.

Pitched roofs have to be concerned with appearances more than
flat -- you'd be hard pressed to tell what color our roof is
painted cuz it *is* flat (you'd need to be above it to get a view
of it).

If I could replace the roof entirely, I'd opt for a metal/tin roof
as it should require *no* maintenance (though might be LOUD
during the rainy season). Unfortunately, it requires more pitch than
we have available, here, so not an option.

On 5/6/2016 2:44 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
Sadly, my husband's joints are breaking down, so we're going to have
to start hiring some things done for us. Up until now, we've
pretty much done everything ourselves, too.


Check out:


David Perlmutter's book "Grain Brain"

amazon.com/Grain-Brain-Surprising-Sugar--Your-Killers/dp/031623480X


and


William Davis' book "Wheat Belly"

amazon.com/Wheat-Belly-Lose-Weight-Health/dp/1609614798


and


Gary Taubes book "Why We Get Fat and What To Do About It"

amazon.com/Why-We-Get-Fat-About/dp/0307474259

On Fri, 06 May 2016 09:06:35 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

Greetings!

On 5/6/2016 7:34 AM, HerHusband wrote:
The operative word there is "try". For me to do that consistently,
I'd probably spend all of my time "moving data" around.

Thankfully, I have a lot less data than you to move around. It's not a
big deal to copy data from a smaller hard drive to a larger hard drive,
other than the hour or three that it might take to transfer the data.

Wait until you have to "fsck" a 3T disk. Or, "scandisk"! :

When I started, moving files electronically wasn't practical

Agreed, it was a lot harder to transfer data from cassette tapes or
floppy discs. You had to sit there and baby sit each transfer which
usually took a very long time.

I was referring to the effort of transferring a "project" to a client
(located in another city/state). Nowadays, I can email huge attachments.
Or, put a file on an HTTP/FTP server and let them grab it "directly"...
at very high transfer rates! Years ago, it was impractical to move
many megabytes using modems (and paying for phone calls). Most of
the clients I dealt with would look at me blankly if I suggested they
set up a UUCP node (so we could benefit from the transport of others)

Thankfully, once it's in digital form it just gets faster and faster to
migrate that data to new devices.

Even migrating from hard disks to BIGGER hard disks takes a fair bit
of time!

Yeah, but it's usually something you can start and walk away from.

In the past, the problem has always been one of "organizing" the data.
Which drive has which files on it? (when the drives are sitting on a
shelf). With my new database approach, I don't have to worry about that!
Let *it* keep track of what's where so I can browse through the database
instead of having to drag out one drive after another, hoping to stumble
on what I'm looking for! Previously, I'd have to "ls -alR" each disk
and keep those "lists" on a live machine to scan sequentially in the hope
of a file/directory name ringing a bell.

Or, *paper* records! Even with an ADF, you sit there on pins and
needles wondering if a sheet will scan "crooked"

It is definitely easier to scan papers as they come in than trying to go
back and scan piles of paperwork. I did that recently when I went
through our fire safe, took a couple of days to scan them all.

I have *big* boxes of paper documents. E.g., my MULTICS collection is
several cubic feet. I'd need a couple of spare scanners as I'm sure
I'd "burn out" the ones I have! Esp the ADF's!

I've got afew Fujitsu scanners that have scanned close to a million
pages each - much of it double sided - and can scan 20 pages per
minute at 30 dpi all day.

Sadly there are no 64 bit drivers for them so I've had to look for
replacements. The rubber on the paper feed rollers is starting to
return to it's original latex gum consistanct now at about 10 years of
age (would have to check the id plates for the actual age) so
replacement is becoming necessary even in the 32 bit systems. These
scanners were worth over $2200 new and I bought most of them used for
around $250 5 nyears ago. (about 25 all together).

I've not even tried to scan my old photos. A week scanning ~50 year
old 35mm slides was grueling enough!


35mm slides are no fun - and negatives are even worse. I have a scsi
interface slide scanner/strip scanner , but again there are no drivers
for current OS.
Same here. I still have a box of 35mm negatives in our safe deposit box
from our "pre-digital" days. Eventually I want to scan them all but I
know that will be a huge undertaking that I never seem to have time for.

If they aren't "too old", *pay* someone to do it for you (a service
bureau). In my case, they were really old and even the emulsions were
in sad shape. So, a fair bit of TLC was required to get a useful image.

I have probably 100 LPs "new" that I've carefully preserved that are
awaiting a few weeks of my time to transfer to digital media. The
same is true of my cassette library.

I transferred my old LP's to cassette tapes, or simply bought new tapes
to replace them. When CD's came along, I transferred the cassettes to
CD's, or bought new CD's to replace them again. I probably bought several
of my albums two or three times over the years.

I did that for my "mainstream" LP's. It was easier just to buy them over
again. These, however, don't exist in CD form. So, I either listen to
them AS vinyl or take the time to do the transfer myself. With a fairly
good turntable/cartridge and 24b digital, you can "read once" and do all
the fixup and downsampling to 16b in post. But, its still many hours to
make a usable "CD" from each LP.

Thankfully, once the music was on CD's it was in digital form and I could
finally start copying it losslessly.

But never with any greater precision than your original choice of digitizing.

Some of my older, less popular, music was sounding rather bad after
multiple lossy transfers. I found digital versions of many of them on
places like iTunes. The rest I just bid farewell to.

SWMBO often buys "lesson tapes" that aren't available on DVD. So, I
keep a VCR to copy those onto digital media.

We got rid of our VHS tapes long ago, but I do have three VCR's still in
storage. Every now and then I get a VHS tape I need to transfer, or a
family member asks me to transfer old videos for them.

I have one located adjacent to my multimedia workstation. I can digitize
a tape and then handle the post-processing on that workstation to create
the final "DVD", MP4, etc.

A friend has commented that data NEVER gets discarded.

Actually, I do go through my data from time to time and delete out old
files that are no longer needed.

I don't need bank statements for accounts we closed 20+ years ago.

I don't need receipts for stuff I threw away many years ago.

I need all supporting information for my business, "just in case".
The amount of space I'll save in a file cabinet is nothing compared
to the hassle I could face trying to document a KEOGH contribution
or verify my adoption of specific new terms of the "plan". We dont
need receipts for many of the household items as credit card statements,
checks and/or the records of the folks who sold it to us are usually
enough (for warranty repair/replace).

I don't need generic scenery photos from ten years ago if we can't even
tell where they were taken.

Thankfully, I'm not big on photos! I only use them to "document
things": this is a photo of the PCB for project X; here is a photo
of the roof repair from 2001 (helpful if I notice a part of the roof
developing a REPEAT problem); this is what water coming off the back
of the house looks like in a Monsoon; etc.

And so on... I don't do it all at once, of course, but I'll weed old
stuff out when I discover it. It doesn't make a huge dent in storage
space, but it's easier to find the useful stuff when the useless stuff
isn't cluttering everything up.

I have a lot of research software/publications in my archive. In some
cases, I have the "only" copy (that *I* know of -- google won't find
anything; someone LIKE me may have a copy squirreled away) of many of
these things. Usually, I have the entire RCS/SCCS/CVS repository on
hand so I can actually recreate the project at any point in its
existence to see *what* was done to effect a particular change recorded
in the log.

Plus, the same with each of *my* projects (hardware and software).

And, of course, all of the tools I've purchased over the years.

If I was starting over, I'd build virtual machines for each
"development environment" and just archive those in their entirety.
And, "just say no" to oddball hardware that places constraints on WHERE
those VM's can be run!

(Unfortunately, historically, this has never been possible; an ICE
from vendor A might require a parallel port to communicate with my
host while one from vendor B might use a serial port and vendor C
a proprietaray "add in ISA card". Given that I'm *building* things,
I can't just watch my code execute on a CRT and claim that it works.
I need to watch the motor spin and the mechanism move -- and verify
that it stops when it reaches the limit of its travel, etc. Or, verify
the number of coins dispensed from a hopper are appropriate for the
"payout". Or, determine the smallest volume of a blood sample that I
can reliably detect. etc. So, hardware is ALWAYS involved in my
projects...)

On 5/6/2016 6:47 PM, wrote:

It is definitely easier to scan papers as they come in than trying to go
back and scan piles of paperwork. I did that recently when I went
through our fire safe, took a couple of days to scan them all.

I have *big* boxes of paper documents. E.g., my MULTICS collection is
several cubic feet. I'd need a couple of spare scanners as I'm sure
I'd "burn out" the ones I have! Esp the ADF's!

I've got afew Fujitsu scanners that have scanned close to a million
pages each - much of it double sided - and can scan 20 pages per
minute at 30 dpi all day.

If I wanted to be in the paper scanning business, I'd buy a tool
appropriate for the job! :

I scan anything that I want to preserve at 600dpi in greyscale or color
(as appropriate to the material) in the hope that *someday* OCR is
reliable enough to work "unattended". Too many visual artifacts manifest
at lower rates. And, I have no desire to sit and "proof" each individual
page coming off the scanner.

Sadly there are no 64 bit drivers for them so I've had to look for
replacements.

This goes to the "archive the OS and tools" comment I made.
And, explains why I am reluctant to update OS's "just for
the helluvit" (i.e., for no other technological reason).
I have no desire to repurchase all my hardware devices
(peripherals) AND software tools just to be able to say I'm
running the OS du jour.

[Especially when many of those things cost tens of kilobucks
and/or are no longer commercially available.]

Panasonic makes some nice scanners if you're interests lie in that
area. I know a guy who's been happy with a KV-S3065W (but, he
processes LOTS of paper)

The rubber on the paper feed rollers is starting to
return to it's original latex gum consistanct now at about 10 years of
age (would have to check the id plates for the actual age) so
replacement is becoming necessary even in the 32 bit systems. These

Physical paper handling is always the problem. "Rubber" degrades
over time. Or, gets "slick" from oils, dirt and grime that it picks
up off the surface of the paper. This is particularly true if you
are scanning OLD documents that may have seen a lot of use before
you acquired them.

scanners were worth over $2200 new and I bought most of them used for
around $250 5 nyears ago. (about 25 all together).

I've not even tried to scan my old photos. A week scanning ~50 year
old 35mm slides was grueling enough!

35mm slides are no fun - and negatives are even worse. I have a scsi
interface slide scanner/strip scanner , but again there are no drivers
for current OS.

I used a "slide at a time" scanner -- though I have a B-size scanner that
will support laying dozens of slides on the scanner concurrently.
(the slide scanner scans at much higher resolution, though).

The post-processing problem with slides is that it is too easy to get
them "scanned crooked". And, if scanned at too low a resolution, you
start introducing artifacts as you try to rotate the skew out of
the image.