For the past two years I have not put out a trash can at the
curb while my neighbor's trash cans are filled to the brim.

What gives?

Here's what I throw out:
1. Everything that is "food" gets composted, so, there's no actual
food in the trash (and yes, bones and meat and oils are food
just as much as carrots and spoiled ketchup or mustard is food).

2. Every "container" containing food is rinsed out, so, the container
itself is clean (for the most part), and the container goes into
the "blue" recycling bin (which is 60 gallons I believe).

3. Every box or piece of paper or wrapper or envelope or anything
whatsoever with printing on it goes into the recycle bin.

4. I almost never have electronic waste (once or twice a year?) so
let's forget about TVs and refrigerators and batteries and
broken cellphones, etc. since they're so rarely put in trash.

5. About the only place there is anything even remotely resembling
"trash" is the bathroom. But even there, all biologically soiled
tissues go down the toilet, so, the trash contains bits of
cotton balls or q tips or nose-blowing tissue paper, all of which
goes into the blue recycling bucket (it's not pretty, but it's
recyclable).

6. Everything that pays the CRV of five and ten cents goes into
a special bucket for dropping off to get my CRV back, so, there
are very few bottles other than clean food bottles and jars in
the recycling.

7. I almost never have clothing trash, although they're recyclable
anyway, so, the once a year I throw out a pair of jeans would go
into the recycling bins anyway.

8. Of course, all yard waste would go into the green landscaping
bins, so, let's not even discuss leaves and branches here.

9. No babies for quite some time, so, there are no soiled diapers
to worry about (and anyway, we always used the cloth ones
so there's nothing to recycle except the wash water which goes
down the drain).

10. Motor oil is a separate thing, which happens two or three times
a year, as do tires and mechanical parts, all of which are
recycled in their own way already (e.g., tires go to Costco
while motor oil goes in jugs set alongside the trash bins).

So, given that my brown trash bin is never used, what on earth do
people *put* in their trash bin, that can't be recycled otherwise?

On 05/02/2016 04:09 PM, Arthur Cresswell wrote:
For the past two years I have not put out a trash can at the
curb while my neighbor's trash cans are filled to the brim.

What gives?

Here's what I throw out:
1. Everything that is "food" gets composted, so, there's no actual
food in the trash (and yes, bones and meat and oils are food
just as much as carrots and spoiled ketchup or mustard is food).

2. Every "container" containing food is rinsed out, so, the container
itse


snip


Pretty much the same here.

Each week my neighbor's garbage containers are over flowing, but in a
month I'd probably not fill one.

I own my own home and one day I asked a neighbor who had been renting
for many years why he did not buy his own house, he had a good job.


He told me he had no money because all he did was buy junk he did not need.


Yep, looked like it all ended up in the garbage.

sheesh, how disgusting.

On 5/2/2016 5:19 PM, philo wrote:
On 05/02/2016 04:09 PM, Arthur Cresswell wrote:
For the past two years I have not put out a trash can at the
curb while my neighbor's trash cans are filled to the brim.

What gives?

Here's what I throw out:
1. Everything that is "food" gets composted, so, there's no actual
food in the trash (and yes, bones and meat and oils are food
just as much as carrots and spoiled ketchup or mustard is food).

2. Every "container" containing food is rinsed out, so, the container
itse


snip


Pretty much the same here.

Each week my neighbor's garbage containers are over flowing, but in a
month I'd probably not fill one.

I own my own home and one day I asked a neighbor who had been renting
for many years why he did not buy his own house, he had a good job.


He told me he had no money because all he did was buy junk he did not need.


Yep, looked like it all ended up in the garbage.

sheesh, how disgusting.


I know people in similar situation. Could easily support a house but
cannot save up enough for a down payment. I had to have my mother be on
the deed for my first house as I was only 20 when I bought it.

Never had a yard sale either. We have plenty of "stuff" but we buy what
we want/need and use it until it no longer works.

On 05/02/2016 05:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:



Yep, looked like it all ended up in the garbage.

sheesh, how disgusting.


I know people in similar situation. Could easily support a house but
cannot save up enough for a down payment. I had to have my mother be on
the deed for my first house as I was only 20 when I bought it.

Never had a yard sale either. We have plenty of "stuff" but we buy what
we want/need and use it until it no longer works.



My wife just can't believe what I'll take the time to fix...
but when I repair something it's usually better than new.

It usually takes less time to fix it than if I would have gone to the
store to buy a new one.

I was 30 when I bought my house (same one I still live in 36 years
later). I was tired of renting but a bit short on funds for the down
payment. I had to "borrow" $1500 from my mom. Years later she told me I
did not have to pay her back. I was really counting on that.


If I did not own my own home, there is no way I could afford to live in
this neighborhood, the rents are up to $1600 a month for a new, two
bedroom apt!

On 5/2/2016 6:26 PM, philo wrote:

Interesting world we live in, and neighborhoods. I irritate my
neighbors by not spending what I have, they irritate me by spending what
they don't have. The number of trash carts seems to be some sort of a
status symbol with the "Bubba folks" and how high you can stuff the
trash into one so the lid won't close. It's a sign of affluence to them
I suppose.

On 05/02/2016 06:58 PM, My 2 Cents wrote:
On 5/2/2016 6:26 PM, philo wrote:

Interesting world we live in, and neighborhoods. I irritate my
neighbors by not spending what I have, they irritate me by spending what
they don't have. The number of trash carts seems to be some sort of a
status symbol with the "Bubba folks" and how high you can stuff the
trash into one so the lid won't close. It's a sign of affluence to them
I suppose.





One thing I do:

If it has any recycle value at all just as scrap bits of metal,
old lawn furniture or computer cases...I just put it next to the trash
container and half the time it's gone in a few hours.

My wife and I always joke if it takes more than 24 hours...about how
picky they are.

In article ,
says...

For the past two years I have not put out a trash can at the
curb while my neighbor's trash cans are filled to the brim.

What gives?

Here's what I throw out:
1. Everything that is "food" gets composted, so, there's no actual
food in the trash (and yes, bones and meat and oils are food
just as much as carrots and spoiled ketchup or mustard is food).

2. Every "container" containing food is rinsed out, so, the container
itself is clean (for the most part), and the container goes into
the "blue" recycling bin (which is 60 gallons I believe).

3. Every box or piece of paper or wrapper or envelope or anything
whatsoever with printing on it goes into the recycle bin.

4. I almost never have electronic waste (once or twice a year?) so
let's forget about TVs and refrigerators and batteries and
broken cellphones, etc. since they're so rarely put in trash.

5. About the only place there is anything even remotely resembling
"trash" is the bathroom. But even there, all biologically soiled
tissues go down the toilet, so, the trash contains bits of
cotton balls or q tips or nose-blowing tissue paper, all of which
goes into the blue recycling bucket (it's not pretty, but it's
recyclable).

6. Everything that pays the CRV of five and ten cents goes into
a special bucket for dropping off to get my CRV back, so, there
are very few bottles other than clean food bottles and jars in
the recycling.

7. I almost never have clothing trash, although they're recyclable
anyway, so, the once a year I throw out a pair of jeans would go
into the recycling bins anyway.

8. Of course, all yard waste would go into the green landscaping
bins, so, let's not even discuss leaves and branches here.

9. No babies for quite some time, so, there are no soiled diapers
to worry about (and anyway, we always used the cloth ones
so there's nothing to recycle except the wash water which goes
down the drain).

10. Motor oil is a separate thing, which happens two or three times
a year, as do tires and mechanical parts, all of which are
recycled in their own way already (e.g., tires go to Costco
while motor oil goes in jugs set alongside the trash bins).

So, given that my brown trash bin is never used, what on earth do
people *put* in their trash bin, that can't be recycled otherwise?

Pretty much the same here with the exception of a compost pile. Any stale
or bad food goes down the garbage disposal, but I wouldn't think
(cooking) oil would be so good for compost or the garbage disposal. I
recycle all kinds of oil by taking it to O'Reilly Auto Parts for
disposal. I'm old fashioned though and save bacon grease for cooking
with, just like grandma used to do! [g] Chicken and beef bones get saved
to make stock out of, but I do throw pork bones in the trash. The other
bones go in the trash also after being used up making the stock.

--
RonNNN

RonNNN wrote on Mon, 02 May 2016 17:08:01 -0500:

Pretty much the same here with the exception of a compost pile. Any stale
or bad food goes down the garbage disposal, but I wouldn't think
(cooking) oil would be so good for compost or the garbage disposal.

The cooking oil has a story to it. We often just pour the oil out into
the ground. I imagine it being no different than a dead animal, which
contains fat, meat, and bones, and it gets "eaten" or decomposes pretty
quickly on the ground.

One problem we had with the cooking oil though is that the animals outside
at night would dig up the spot we poured the cooking oil! So, they certainly
were looking for the "buried" dead animal.

Now we pour it in a spot we don't care the animals dig up. Most of the
food is scavenged by animals anyway, which is how it should be. Everyone
always says that will "attract rats" but I think they make this stuff
up because I see a coyote every day, a bobcat once a month, deer every
day, and assorted squirrels and chipmunks every day, but almost never
a rat.

I recycle all kinds of oil by taking it to O'Reilly Auto Parts for
disposal.

Motor oil isn't much of a problem because I just pour it into 1 gallon
jugs also, and just leave it next to the trash bins.

I'm old fashioned though and save bacon grease for cooking
with, just like grandma used to do! [g] Chicken and beef bones get saved
to make stock out of, but I do throw pork bones in the trash. The other
bones go in the trash also after being used up making the stock.

We buy the Costco chicken cooked for about 5 bucks or so and then
we also make chicken soup with the stock and then throw outside
the boiled bones. They always disappear overnight.

So we have our own four-footed garbage cleaning crew.

On 5/2/2016 6:29 PM, Arthur Cresswell wrote:

Now we pour it in a spot we don't care the animals dig up. Most of the
food is scavenged by animals anyway, which is how it should be. Everyone
always says that will "attract rats" but I think they make this stuff
up because I see a coyote every day, a bobcat once a month, deer every
day, and assorted squirrels and chipmunks every day, but almost never
a rat.

Try that in just about any city and get back to me after a couple of days.

On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 7:15:55 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/2/2016 6:29 PM, Arthur Cresswell wrote:

Now we pour it in a spot we don't care the animals dig up. Most of the
food is scavenged by animals anyway, which is how it should be. Everyone
always says that will "attract rats" but I think they make this stuff
up because I see a coyote every day, a bobcat once a month, deer every
day, and assorted squirrels and chipmunks every day, but almost never
a rat.

Try that in just about any city and get back to me after a couple of days.

well i have a pretty big compost pile of branches, grass and leaves. our community encouraged compost piles...

then we got a neighborhood rat problem a neighbor shot and killed 60 rats. allegheny county sent a investigator because we have the compost pile the community pushed.

i had a very unfriendly argument with the allegheny county rat expert, he was rude and offensive, and blamed the rat problem on my compost pile of grass clippings, weeds, lots of leaves, all natural stuff.

if i ever talk with him again i will record his rants, and he deserves to be fired for how he talks to people.

now i have had dogs for over 20 years, my dog susie was a mouser. if it moved she would catch and kill it. i felt bad when she caught 2 full grown rabbits..........

well she died at age 15 , and rats took over.

since we got jack a border collie mix i havent seen anything. i am certain jack has driven off all the varmits from our yard........

On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 9:38:00 PM UTC-5, bob haller wrote:
On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 7:15:55 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/2/2016 6:29 PM, Arthur Cresswell wrote:

Now we pour it in a spot we don't care the animals dig up. Most of the
food is scavenged by animals anyway, which is how it should be. Everyone
always says that will "attract rats" but I think they make this stuff
up because I see a coyote every day, a bobcat once a month, deer every
day, and assorted squirrels and chipmunks every day, but almost never
a rat.

Try that in just about any city and get back to me after a couple of days.

well i have a pretty big compost pile of branches, grass and leaves. our community encouraged compost piles...

then we got a neighborhood rat problem a neighbor shot and killed 60 rats. allegheny county sent a investigator because we have the compost pile the community pushed.

i had a very unfriendly argument with the allegheny county rat expert, he was rude and offensive, and blamed the rat problem on my compost pile of grass clippings, weeds, lots of leaves, all natural stuff.

if i ever talk with him again i will record his rants, and he deserves to be fired for how he talks to people.

now i have had dogs for over 20 years, my dog susie was a mouser. if it moved she would catch and kill it. i felt bad when she caught 2 full grown rabbits..........

well she died at age 15 , and rats took over.

since we got jack a border collie mix i havent seen anything. i am certain jack has driven off all the varmits from our yard........

If it's legal in your state, you should record all your interactions with government employees, including law enforcement. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Recording Monster

bob haller wrote on Mon, 02 May 2016 19:37:56 -0700:

then we got a neighborhood rat problem a neighbor shot and killed 60
rats.

Shot rats?
They shoot rats?
How the heck do you shoot a rat?

Seems like you can't shoot 'em inside, for obvious reasons.
So, you have to shoot them outside.

If they're outside, they pretty much can go where they want.
And if people are around, you can't just shoot willy nilly.

I can't imagine shooting a rat. A deer, yeah. It's big.
A dog, sure. It's big too. A cat, well, it's not so bug, but
a squirrel, well, it sits in a tree and freezes for you.

But a rat?
It isn't gonna sit still and it's small and fast.

I'm amazed that anyone *can* shoot rats.

Ed Pawlowski wrote on Mon, 02 May 2016 19:15:52 -0400:

Try that in just about any city and get back to me after a couple of
days.

I'm in a rural area. Many acres. No house in sight.
I agree that a city would be different.

On 5/2/2016 6:29 PM, Arthur Cresswell wrote:
I recycle all kinds of oil by taking it to O'Reilly Auto Parts for
disposal.

Motor oil isn't much of a problem because I just pour it into 1 gallon
jugs also, and just leave it next to the trash bins.


One auto repair garage near me (well, thinking
some more, can think of a second one) burns waste
motor oil for heat in the winter. I get my oil
changes there. On the rare moments I have waste
oil, I do bring it there when the jug is full.


-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

Stormin Mormon wrote on Mon, 02 May 2016 21:12:38 -0400:

One auto repair garage near me (well, thinking some more, can think of a
second one) burns waste motor oil for heat in the winter. I get my oil
changes there. On the rare moments I have waste oil, I do bring it there
when the jug is full.

Really. They burn waste motor oil?
I would think that it's a carcinogen.
WHo knows what is dissolved in the waste motor oil?

Lots' of petroleum by products I would think.
Doesn't seem to me to be a good thing to burn, but, I guess if the heat
is high enough, everything is incinerated.

On 5/2/2016 10:52 PM, Arthur Cresswell wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote on Mon, 02 May 2016 21:12:38 -0400:

One auto repair garage near me (well, thinking some more, can think of a
second one) burns waste motor oil for heat in the winter. I get my oil
changes there. On the rare moments I have waste oil, I do bring it there
when the jug is full.

Really. They burn waste motor oil?
I would think that it's a carcinogen.
WHo knows what is dissolved in the waste motor oil?

Lots' of petroleum by products I would think.
Doesn't seem to me to be a good thing to burn, but, I guess if the heat
is high enough, everything is incinerated.


I can't comment on carcinogen. But, who can tell?
Most of the crud goes up the flue pipe, I'd think.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 5/2/2016 7:52 PM, Arthur Cresswell wrote:
Really. They burn waste motor oil?
I would think that it's a carcinogen.
WHo knows what is dissolved in the waste motor oil?

Lots' of petroleum by products I would think.
Doesn't seem to me to be a good thing to burn, but, I guess if the heat
is high enough, everything is incinerated.

My parents used to bring our waste oil to the factory where they worked.
It was burned in the furnaces used to heat treat their products.

The town used to incinerate trash, too.

Times have changed.

On Tue, 3 May 2016 02:52:49 -0000 (UTC), Arthur Cresswell
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote on Mon, 02 May 2016 21:12:38 -0400:

One auto repair garage near me (well, thinking some more, can think of a
second one) burns waste motor oil for heat in the winter. I get my oil
changes there. On the rare moments I have waste oil, I do bring it there
when the jug is full.

Really. They burn waste motor oil?
I would think that it's a carcinogen.
WHo knows what is dissolved in the waste motor oil?

Lots' of petroleum by products I would think.
Doesn't seem to me to be a good thing to burn, but, I guess if the heat
is high enough, everything is incinerated.


Our town heats the garage with waste oil. One of the biggest users of
waste oil is Safety Kleen. They charge you to take it away and burn
it as fuel in a plant that makes concrete in large kilns.

Remember a few years back the big deal with PCBs in electric
transformers? It is a carcinogen but to get rid of it safely it is
burned.

Arthur Cresswell wrote in news:ng93q1$goc$9
@news.mixmin.net:

Stormin Mormon wrote on Mon, 02 May 2016 21:12:38 -0400:

One auto repair garage near me (well, thinking some more, can think of a
second one) burns waste motor oil for heat in the winter. I get my oil
changes there. On the rare moments I have waste oil, I do bring it there
when the jug is full.

Really. They burn waste motor oil?
I would think that it's a carcinogen.
WHo knows what is dissolved in the waste motor oil?

Not too much dissolved in it, but lots of crud suspended. Lots of folks burn waste motor oil, but
most of them filter it first.

On Mon, 2 May 2016 17:08:01 -0500, RonNNN wrote:

[...] Any stale or bad food goes down the garbage disposal,

Pound for pound, it probably costs your municipality more at the water
treatment plant than it would at a landfill.

Also, you may put more fat and oil into the drain than it can handle. (I.e.
the soap that normally ends up going down the pipe.)

--
http://mduffy.x10host.com/index.htm

In article , mqduffy001
@bell.net says...

On Mon, 2 May 2016 17:08:01 -0500, RonNNN wrote:

[...] Any stale or bad food goes down the garbage disposal,

Pound for pound, it probably costs your municipality more at the water
treatment plant than it would at a landfill.

Also, you may put more fat and oil into the drain than it can handle. (I.e.
the soap that normally ends up going down the pipe.)

Maybe so, but I've found in the past that since our garbage only gets
picked up once a week, putting food in the trash invites maggots and
roaches and stuff. I'm happy to let my taxes and garbage fees work at the
water treatment plant rather than the landfill.

--
RonNNN

On Mon, 2 May 2016 18:32:36 -0500, RonNNN wrote:

[...] maggots and roaches and stuff

Is there a problem with the lid on your gargabe container?


I'm happy to let my taxes and garbage fees work at
the water treatment plant rather than the landfill.

Some might say that you are using the taxes of others to subsidise your
disproportionate use of the operational capacity of the water treatment
plant.

In practice, it is more complicated, because in some places, the sewage
plant captures the methane produced, and are actually designed with garbage
disposals in mind. Also, less fuel is consumed carrying the waste to the
dump. If your community incinerates garbage it will incur an extra
environmental cost as well.

A lot depends on how expensive water is in your community, and how much
soap and hot water you use to prevent grease build-up.

--
http://mduffy.x10host.com/index.htm

In article , mqduffy001
@bell.net says...

On Mon, 2 May 2016 18:32:36 -0500, RonNNN wrote:

[...] maggots and roaches and stuff

Is there a problem with the lid on your gargabe container?


I'm happy to let my taxes and garbage fees work at
the water treatment plant rather than the landfill.

Some might say that you are using the taxes of others to subsidise your
disproportionate use of the operational capacity of the water treatment
plant.

In practice, it is more complicated, because in some places, the sewage
plant captures the methane produced, and are actually designed with garbage
disposals in mind. Also, less fuel is consumed carrying the waste to the
dump. If your community incinerates garbage it will incur an extra
environmental cost as well.

A lot depends on how expensive water is in your community, and how much
soap and hot water you use to prevent grease build-up.

All of the soap and water and electricity I use to heat the water and run
the garbage disposal (et al )I pay for. I also pay to have my garbage and
recyclables picked up and pay a storm water runoff fee. If that's what
you call using other peoples taxes we'll just have to agree to disagree.
And if you think a garbage can lid will keep out roaches and maggots
we'll have to agree to disagree again.

--
RonNNN

Mike Duffy wrote on Mon, 02 May 2016 20:13:04 -0400:


Is there a problem with the lid on your gargabe container?

That's a good point. Our trash bins are well made so the lid keeps
animals out. Some people bungee cord them, but very few do.

There is only one hole which is where an aluminum bar goes through
them around the middle (I think for the truck to latch onto), so they
could hold water if it weren't for that middle bar.

Some might say that you are using the taxes of others to subsidise your
disproportionate use of the operational capacity of the water treatment
plant.

There is an old joke that some people can afford to waste other people's
resources!

In practice, it is more complicated, because in some places, the sewage
plant captures the methane produced, and are actually designed with
garbage disposals in mind. Also, less fuel is consumed carrying the
waste to the dump. If your community incinerates garbage it will incur
an extra environmental cost as well.

We are on septic so sewage isn't a concern.

A lot depends on how expensive water is in your community, and how much
soap and hot water you use to prevent grease build-up.

We are on a well, so the only cost for water is the electricity to pump
it out.

On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 8:13:01 PM UTC-4, Mike Duffy wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2016 18:32:36 -0500, RonNNN wrote:

[...] maggots and roaches and stuff

Is there a problem with the lid on your gargabe container?

I can't speak for Mike Duffy, of course, but...

Flies seem to find a way in regardless. Our current container
is provided by the trash hauler (we have no choice; it's designed
to be picked up by the mechanical arm on the truck), and the lid
doesn't close very tightly. When we bought our own garbage cans,
flies still managed to get in to lay their eggs.

Luckily, it's only a problem in the summer here. Cold weather
kills the little devils.

Cindy Hamilton

On 5/2/2016 5:09 PM, Arthur Cresswell wrote:


So, given that my brown trash bin is never used, what on earth do
people *put* in their trash bin, that can't be recycled otherwise?


Congrats on not loading up landfills.
Not everyone takes recycling as far as you do. Some towns don't want
contaminated paper such as pizza boxes or saturated meat wrappers,
coated papers, anything with biological contamination. .

Some of the food you are composting is also good rodent bait. I prefer
to dispose of it than have animals finding it. Those Q-tips you are
putting in with the paper are not easily recycled, not to mention no one
want to pick off your earwax. How about razor blades? Do you separate
the metal blade from the plastic? I don't, I toss one a month.

On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 6:34:35 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/2/2016 5:09 PM, Arthur Cresswell wrote:


So, given that my brown trash bin is never used, what on earth do
people *put* in their trash bin, that can't be recycled otherwise?


Congrats on not loading up landfills.
Not everyone takes recycling as far as you do. Some towns don't want
contaminated paper such as pizza boxes or saturated meat wrappers,
coated papers, anything with biological contamination. .


That's the case here in NJ too. Styrofoam packaging is another
example. Or the plastic wrappers around some consumer packages.
Used paper towels, rags, used paper plates, bubble pack material,
meat bones, chicken carcass.

On 5/2/2016 6:43 PM, trader_4 wrote:


That's the case here in NJ too. Styrofoam packaging is another
example. Or the plastic wrappers around some consumer packages.
Used paper towels, rags, used paper plates, bubble pack material,
meat bones, chicken carcass.



The foam packing is polystyrene plastic and should go in any place that
takes #6 plastic. Easily recycled.

trader_4 wrote on Mon, 02 May 2016 15:43:32 -0700:

That's the case here in NJ too. Styrofoam packaging is another example.
Or the plastic wrappers around some consumer packages. Used paper
towels, rags, used paper plates, bubble pack material,
meat bones, chicken carcass.

I guess that's a good point in that *some* plastic isn't recyclable.

But I pretty much recycle all plastics.

They don't seem to complain so they must have some way of filtering
it out of the mix if it's plastic they don't like.

But, realistically, a recycling main facility must deal with tons
of scrap at a time, so, I would think they deal with it on the
gross level.

On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 10:45:21 PM UTC-4, Arthur Cresswell wrote:
trader_4 wrote on Mon, 02 May 2016 15:43:32 -0700:

That's the case here in NJ too. Styrofoam packaging is another example.
Or the plastic wrappers around some consumer packages. Used paper
towels, rags, used paper plates, bubble pack material,
meat bones, chicken carcass.

I guess that's a good point in that *some* plastic isn't recyclable.

But I pretty much recycle all plastics.

They don't seem to complain so they must have some way of filtering
it out of the mix if it's plastic they don't like.

But, realistically, a recycling main facility must deal with tons
of scrap at a time, so, I would think they deal with it on the
gross level.

The biggest problem here is plastic bags, like shopping bags,
that wind up in the recyclables with bottles, cans and other
plastic where they don't belong. They clog up the sorting
machinery that's used to separate the stuff. You can either
put those bags in with the non-recyclable garbage or take them
to the supermarket where they accept them for recycling.

trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 10:45:21 PM UTC-4, Arthur Cresswell wrote:
trader_4 wrote on Mon, 02 May 2016 15:43:32 -0700:

That's the case here in NJ too. Styrofoam packaging is another
example. Or the plastic wrappers around some consumer packages.
Used paper towels, rags, used paper plates, bubble pack material,
meat bones, chicken carcass.

I guess that's a good point in that *some* plastic isn't recyclable.

But I pretty much recycle all plastics.

They don't seem to complain so they must have some way of filtering
it out of the mix if it's plastic they don't like.

But, realistically, a recycling main facility must deal with tons
of scrap at a time, so, I would think they deal with it on the
gross level.

The biggest problem here is plastic bags, like shopping bags,
that wind up in the recyclables with bottles, cans and other
plastic where they don't belong. They clog up the sorting
machinery that's used to separate the stuff. You can either
put those bags in with the non-recyclable garbage or take them
to the supermarket where they accept them for recycling.

Here, they tell you to tie the clean plastic bags into a bag and throw it in the
recycleing bin. That way it is easily processed into the appropriate catagory by
the sorters.

The biggest problem here is plastic bags, like shopping bags,
that wind up in the recyclables with bottles, cans and other
plastic where they don't belong. They clog up the sorting
machinery that's used to separate the stuff.

Yep, same here. When waste management sends us the recycling newsletter,
they often include a photo of the sorting machinery clogged up with those
plastic bags. Every so often they have to stop the machine so some poor guy
or gal can go in and cut all those bags out of the machine. Yuck.

take them to the supermarket where they accept them for recycling.

We take ours back to the grocery store. Personally, I would be happy if
they did away with the plastic bags and went back to paper. The plastic
bags always seem to break or have holes in them. And I could reuse or
recycle the paper bags.

I frequently see those plastic shopping bags blowing around in town, caught
in tree branches or stuck to fences. Such a shame for something that won't
degrade in the environment.

Stores used to ask if you wanted paper or plastic, but the last several
years they don't even ask and just use plastic. For a while I asked for
paper, but they acted annoyed and often didn't have any at the register
anyway.

We did switch to reusable shopping bags for a while, but just stopped doing
it at some point. I don't remember why, probably just laziness.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

Ed Pawlowski wrote on Mon, 02 May 2016 18:34:34 -0400:

Congrats on not loading up landfills.
Not everyone takes recycling as far as you do. Some towns don't want
contaminated paper such as pizza boxes or saturated meat wrappers,
coated papers, anything with biological contamination. .

Our recycling here seems pretty open. I am sure we could put stuff
in there that they don't want but I've never known anyone to care what
goes into the recycling containers.

Some of the food you are composting is also good rodent bait. I prefer
to dispose of it than have animals finding it.

Everyone says that. We have deer. We have squirrels. We have birds.
We have bobcat. We have coyote. We have snakes. But, I don't think
I've ever seen a rat. (We do have a family of gophers or moles which
I want to go Bill Murray on, but that's a different story.)

Those Q-tips you are
putting in with the paper are not easily recycled, not to mention no one
want to pick off your earwax.

Seems to me that they mush that stuff up in water, and then press it dry,
and then use the fiber to make cardboard and paper.

I don't think the teeny tiny amount of earwax will make any difference
when it's mixed up with a ton of other similar paper products.

How about razor blades? Do you separate
the metal blade from the plastic? I don't, I toss one a month.

Razor blades are a good point. I recycle them. Plastic for the most part,
right?

I would think that they melt the plastic, and then they sieve or sink
out the contaminants (such as the metal blades). AT least if I were
running a recycling facility that's what I would do.

I'd use water on the paper and heat on the plastic.

On 5/2/2016 2:09 PM, Arthur Cresswell wrote:
For the past two years I have not put out a trash can at the
curb while my neighbor's trash cans are filled to the brim.

What gives?

Here's what I throw out:
1. Everything that is "food" gets composted, so, there's no actual
food in the trash (and yes, bones and meat and oils are food
just as much as carrots and spoiled ketchup or mustard is food).

We don't have a compost pile as it leads to "unwanted critters" in
the yard. So, any food waste goes into the trash (in sealed bags).

2. Every "container" containing food is rinsed out, so, the container
itself is clean (for the most part), and the container goes into
the "blue" recycling bin (which is 60 gallons I believe).

Only certain containers are recyclable, here. If the container has
a lid, it does NOT get rinsed -- the recycling facility can more
efficiently rinse (and recycle the water!) than we can (we live
in the desert; how you use water is something you think about
consciously).

3. Every box or piece of paper or wrapper or envelope or anything
whatsoever with printing on it goes into the recycle bin.

Ditto -- unless there is potential for "information leakage"
(credit card offers, financial statements, etc.). These get
shredded (confetti-cut) and the bags of confetti get placed
in with the recycles.

We also recycle a fair bit of cardboard.

Strangely, *aluminum* is not harvested -- but "tin" is! :

4. I almost never have electronic waste (once or twice a year?) so
let's forget about TVs and refrigerators and batteries and
broken cellphones, etc. since they're so rarely put in trash.

I recycle a *lot* of electronic gear. But, do so via appropriate
venues (electronics are considered a form of hazardous waste, here).

5. About the only place there is anything even remotely resembling
"trash" is the bathroom. But even there, all biologically soiled
tissues go down the toilet, so, the trash contains bits of
cotton balls or q tips or nose-blowing tissue paper, all of which
goes into the blue recycling bucket (it's not pretty, but it's
recyclable).

Bathroom waste we treat as food waste. It wants to be disposed, not
recycled.

6. Everything that pays the CRV of five and ten cents goes into
a special bucket for dropping off to get my CRV back, so, there
are very few bottles other than clean food bottles and jars in
the recycling.

We have no "deposit" containers, here (other than things like propane
cylinders, etc). Some places will allow you to bring in aluminum cans
to be compacted and weighed in an automated collection machine -- which
then pays cash based on the recycled weight.

We don't buy anything in aluminum cans. Glass containers (that aren't
suitable for reuse) get recycled.

7. I almost never have clothing trash, although they're recyclable
anyway, so, the once a year I throw out a pair of jeans would go
into the recycling bins anyway.

I go through jeans at a much faster rate. But, they go in the trash.
Our recycling service won't accept them.

Nor will they accept plastic bags encountered at many stores. If
our reusable bags prove insufficient (or, scrap boxes), we are
forced to use them.

For some items, I seek out these bags (e.g., my holiday flour/sugar
purchases benefit from the plastic bags as I can use them to wrap
the flour/sugar sacks for placement in the freezer until needed)

8. Of course, all yard waste would go into the green landscaping
bins, so, let's not even discuss leaves and branches here.

We don't have a facility to collect yard waste -- other than the
twice annual "bulk pickup" (at which time, they will collect
damn near any sort of green material and dispose of it in the
city's green waste program). It's not legal to drop off your
"bulk/brush" items at some random neighborhood that is having
THEIR twice annual collection this week. So, the only other
alternative is to drive it to the city's facility (which usually
requires more than a "pickup").

We, for example, discard probably 30 pounds of pine needles every
few months from our neighbor's trees.

9. No babies for quite some time, so, there are no soiled diapers
to worry about (and anyway, we always used the cloth ones
so there's nothing to recycle except the wash water which goes
down the drain).

10. Motor oil is a separate thing, which happens two or three times
a year, as do tires and mechanical parts, all of which are
recycled in their own way already (e.g., tires go to Costco
while motor oil goes in jugs set alongside the trash bins).

So, given that my brown trash bin is never used, what on earth do
people *put* in their trash bin, that can't be recycled otherwise?

What is the relative *cost* of recycling items?

I've been involved with a local facility that recycles dropped off
items (i.e., no "collection" service).

Anything plastic just goes into the trash (e.g., that cheap printer
that you purchased).

Books are reclaimed for their paper content.

"Tin" is worth a penny a pound (i.e., the crappy case on that little
tower PC that you purchased).

Copper and aluminum get cherry picked for special handling (more value,
there). As do circuit boards (precious metal recovery).

There are "second-hand" stores in town that will take clothing and
other assorted goods and try to "flip" them for a quick buck
(caveat emptor) -- but, you'll have to haul the items to these
places.

Building materials either get carted off to the dump (at personal
risk to the tires on your vehicle) or tossed in the trash.

That said, we typically "throw out" less than 10G of material in a
week. Yet, keep our oversized (more costly) waste container for the
times when it is repeatedly filled (e.g., last month, I filled it
twice with wildflowers pulled from the front yard).

I maintain a "pile" in the garage where I "stage" items that will be
recycled. And, we've another pile in the house of items that will be
donated to local thrift stores (e.g., Humane Society) -- *if* we
think they have remaining life/utility.

(many people treat these sorts of places as glorified trash cans)

Don Y wrote on Mon, 02 May 2016 15:36:19 -0700:

We don't have a compost pile as it leads to "unwanted critters" in the
yard. So, any food waste goes into the trash (in sealed bags).

Everyone says I'm going to get "rodents" (specifically "rats"), but,
if I'm getting them, I don't see 'em. I see coyotes. I see rabbits.
I see quail. Deer. Bobcat. Chipmunks. Lots of birds. But no rats.

Only certain containers are recyclable, here. If the container has a
lid, it does NOT get rinsed -- the recycling facility can more
efficiently rinse (and recycle the water!) than we can (we live in the
desert; how you use water is something you think about consciously).

We don't have to rinse the food containers either.
But we do anyway.

(credit card offers, financial statements, etc.). These get shredded
(confetti-cut) and the bags of confetti get placed in with the recycles.
We also recycle a fair bit of cardboard.

Good point on the information leakage.
I have a shredder.
Now if you can help me get the wife and kids to *use* it, I'd be
thankful.

I recycle a *lot* of electronic gear. But, do so via appropriate venues
(electronics are considered a form of hazardous waste, here).

In truth, I "recycle" my electronic waste at the "Goodwill" drop off.

Bathroom waste we treat as food waste. It wants to be disposed, not
recycled.

Yeah, but what is in the waste bin in a bathroom?
I find bottles of shampoo and tissues and q tips and hair nets and
cardboard hair coloring, etc.

All of which is recyclable.

On 5/2/2016 7:39 PM, Arthur Cresswell wrote:
Don Y wrote on Mon, 02 May 2016 15:36:19 -0700:

We don't have a compost pile as it leads to "unwanted critters" in the
yard. So, any food waste goes into the trash (in sealed bags).

Everyone says I'm going to get "rodents" (specifically "rats"), but,
if I'm getting them, I don't see 'em. I see coyotes. I see rabbits.
I see quail. Deer. Bobcat. Chipmunks. Lots of birds. But no rats.

Here, javelina, coyote, pack rats, chipmunks, etc.

And, of course, "insects". Which, in turn, lead to an increase in
scorpions.

Only certain containers are recyclable, here. If the container has a
lid, it does NOT get rinsed -- the recycling facility can more
efficiently rinse (and recycle the water!) than we can (we live in the
desert; how you use water is something you think about consciously).

We don't have to rinse the food containers either.
But we do anyway.

We don't "waste" water on a one-time use like that. Likewise, don't
"wash" our vehicles -- the commercial car washes recycle the water that
they use to wash vehicles.

When I make marinara/bolognese ("spaghetti") sauce, I use #10 cans of
ingredients (i.e., essentially the size of your head). Lots of metal
to be recycled. Yet, no way to "cover" it so the remnants of the
foodstuffs inside would be "sealed in" until arriving at the recycling
facility.

As such, I fill one of these. Then, pour it into another. Then back into
the first. Then back into the other, etc. Eventually, all of the foodstuffs
are dislodged and I can dispose of the dirtied water. Without having to run
water for a minute or two until ALL the containers are empty.

(A resource that you don't USE doesn't need to be RECYCLED!)

(credit card offers, financial statements, etc.). These get shredded
(confetti-cut) and the bags of confetti get placed in with the recycles.
We also recycle a fair bit of cardboard.

Good point on the information leakage.
I have a shredder.
Now if you can help me get the wife and kids to *use* it, I'd be
thankful.

Ours sits in an easily accessed space. We pile items to be shredded on top
of it until the stack is unmanageable. Or, "looks big enough". Then, feed
them into it (to cut down on how often it has to run). I htink it will
shred something like 20 pages at a time -- or a couple of CD's, stacked.

I recycle a *lot* of electronic gear. But, do so via appropriate venues
(electronics are considered a form of hazardous waste, here).

In truth, I "recycle" my electronic waste at the "Goodwill" drop off.

I try to find new homes for kit as friends and colleagues drop off items
that they would otherwise discard/recycle. Often in perfectly good
condition -- or, easily repaired to "like new" (for a few dollars and
a bit of my time). If I can then find someone else who can use such
an item, I consider those few dollars and that bit of time to be "my part"
in diverting something useful from a landfill.

As a coarse measure of just how inefficient recycling is, consider a
computer is worth about $5-10 in recycle value. Yet sells for...?
The difference is essentially (future) profit plus the cost of "reclaiming"
those "raw" materials. :

Bathroom waste we treat as food waste. It wants to be disposed, not
recycled.

Yeah, but what is in the waste bin in a bathroom?

In my case, disposable razor blades, containers that have vestiges of
medicines/salves/creams/other "actives", remnants of soap bars, tissue
and TP. Any plastic containers (personal care products) go in the
(unsorted) recycle bin -- if the plastic is one of the "approved" types.
Tissue and TP get flushed ("But, the BACK SIDE is still pristine!?").
The "cores" to the TP rolls are recycled as paper products (ditto for the
cores for paper towels).

[We also wash and reuse our ziploc bags -- typ used for storing items in
the freezer. Though I have been moving to rigid containers as they pack
better (plastic bags have no real "form" and just kind of "slouch")]

Medicines are recycled at special annual recycling events FOR pharmaceuticals.

The rest is just plain trash.

I find bottles of shampoo and tissues and q tips and hair nets and
cardboard hair coloring, etc.

All of which is recyclable.

"Spent" toothpaste tubes?

Don,

When I make marinara/bolognese ("spaghetti") sauce, I use #10 cans of
ingredients (i.e., essentially the size of your head).

I've never checked myself, but I've heard larger 28 ounce cans of
tomatoes have more liquid per volume than smaller 14 ounce cans. No
point, just an interesting rumor.

Ours sits in an easily accessed space. We pile items to be shredded
on top of it until the stack is unmanageable. Or, "looks big enough".
Then, feed them into it (to cut down on how often it has to run). I
htink it will shred something like 20 pages at a time -- or a couple
of CD's, stacked.

My shredder sits next to my desk in the office. It's easy to feed in
sensitive documents as they come in.

I have switched to electronic billing wherever possible so I don't have
much paperwork to shred anymore. I keep the electronic documents on an
encrypted drive and have multiple backups.

I don't shred CD's or credit cards as that would contaminate my
recyclable paper with unrecyclable plastics.

As a coarse measure of just how inefficient recycling is, consider a
computer is worth about $5-10 in recycle value. Yet sells for...?

That's one of the reasons I like building my own computers. I only
replace the parts that need updating, such as a hard drive or graphics
card. Other than my laptop, I haven't bought a packaged PC in over 20
years.

In most cases, I've been able to sell my old motherboards and other
computer parts on eBay.

In my case, disposable razor blades, containers that have vestiges of
medicines/salves/creams/other "actives", remnants of soap bars, tissue
and TP. Any plastic containers (personal care products) go in the
(unsorted) recycle bin -- if the plastic is one of the "approved"
types. Tissue and TP get flushed ("But, the BACK SIDE is still
pristine!?"). The "cores" to the TP rolls are recycled as paper
products (ditto for the cores for paper towels).

We should recycle more items from the bathroom, but it's on the other end
of the house and there's no convenient "staging area" to set things till
we can take them out to the bin. It's mostly just laziness, as it's
easier to toss these items in the bathroom trash can. Thankfully, the
volume is quite small.

[We also wash and reuse our ziploc bags -- typ used for storing items
in the freezer. Though I have been moving to rigid containers as they
pack better (plastic bags have no real "form" and just kind of
"slouch")]

We've been using Rubbermaid containers for years as they are easy to
store, wash, and reuse. We have an assortment of ziploc bags in a
drawer, but mostly just use them when we travel (packaging we don't need
to bring back home).

Medicines are recycled at special annual recycling events FOR
pharmaceuticals.

Thankfully, I haven't reached a point that I need to take regular
medications. We always use up our over-the-counter meds so we don't have
those leftover either.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

Hi Anthony,

On 5/3/2016 7:37 AM, HerHusband wrote:
When I make marinara/bolognese ("spaghetti") sauce, I use #10 cans of
ingredients (i.e., essentially the size of your head).

I've never checked myself, but I've heard larger 28 ounce cans of
tomatoes have more liquid per volume than smaller 14 ounce cans. No
point, just an interesting rumor.

Dunno. I use a few 106 oz cans of "ground tomatoes", plus a few of the
16 oz cans of puree (spices, etc.) and a REALLY long simmer (12-16 hours)
that is designed to "burn off" the moisture (let it condense on the
underside of the lid, then wipe it off every hour or so).

I get annoyed because each "move" requires me to find a suitable vendor
of tomato products. I used to make a great sauce with "6-in-1" brand
products but can't find them, here.

[I make it in 16qt batches. Sauce is probably the only justification,
IMO, for tomatoes! : ]

Ours sits in an easily accessed space. We pile items to be shredded
on top of it until the stack is unmanageable. Or, "looks big enough".
Then, feed them into it (to cut down on how often it has to run). I
htink it will shred something like 20 pages at a time -- or a couple
of CD's, stacked.

My shredder sits next to my desk in the office. It's easy to feed in
sensitive documents as they come in.

We keep ours in the garage -- adjacent to the (small) recycling bin
(which we periodically empty into the large recycling "barrel", outside)

I have switched to electronic billing wherever possible so I don't have
much paperwork to shred anymore. I keep the electronic documents on an
encrypted drive and have multiple backups.

We don't like having "online accounts". So, our utilities, bank statements,
etc. all come in dead tree form. I keep all my business paperwork virtually
indefinitely -- yet it all still fits neatly in a single file cabinet.
"Project files" probably account for a disproportionate amount of that
volume; often, there are documents that came with a project that only exist
in hard copy (and I am far too lazy to scan everything just to save space!)

I don't shred CD's or credit cards as that would contaminate my
recyclable paper with unrecyclable plastics.

The paper and plastic go in the same recycling container, here. As well
as tin cans, etc. Seems like it has to be incredibly inefficient to
have to sort this stuff at a central facility but that's how The Powers
That Be have decreed it...

As a coarse measure of just how inefficient recycling is, consider a
computer is worth about $5-10 in recycle value. Yet sells for...?

That's one of the reasons I like building my own computers. I only
replace the parts that need updating, such as a hard drive or graphics
card. Other than my laptop, I haven't bought a packaged PC in over 20
years.

I rescue machines that others may have outgrown. Or, were looking
for an excuse to upgrade. Or, that businesses shed in their 18-36mos
upgrade cycle.

E.g., this Optiplex 645 set me back $10
http://images.geeksimages.com/imageshare/O/300x300/OPTIPLEX-745-MAR-1R-unit.jpg
and another $5 for the 22" display
http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/ProductImage/24-176-079-04.jpg

OTOH, my first 386's set me back $8K/each. So, I figure I'm entitled
to save a few bucks :

In most cases, I've been able to sell my old motherboards and other
computer parts on eBay.

I don't sell "things". Give them away or recycle. I don't want to
worry that someone will not feel they got "good value" out of a sale.

I recently noticed that the Atari Tempest I gave to a neighbor
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/z/8WoAAOSwnDZT77fz/$_1.JPG
now sells for ~$1-2K (factory new condition).

shrug

Currently trying to convince myself to break this habit and *sell*
some of my older, collectable kit (e.g., an ASR-33 in the garage
that really deserves a better home)

In my case, disposable razor blades, containers that have vestiges of
medicines/salves/creams/other "actives", remnants of soap bars, tissue
and TP. Any plastic containers (personal care products) go in the
(unsorted) recycle bin -- if the plastic is one of the "approved"
types. Tissue and TP get flushed ("But, the BACK SIDE is still
pristine!?"). The "cores" to the TP rolls are recycled as paper
products (ditto for the cores for paper towels).

We should recycle more items from the bathroom, but it's on the other end
of the house and there's no convenient "staging area" to set things till
we can take them out to the bin. It's mostly just laziness, as it's
easier to toss these items in the bathroom trash can. Thankfully, the
volume is quite small.

Shampoo bottles get hand carried to the "bin" in the garage (it's
really convenient having it there). When it fills, it gets dumped
in the bigger container outside.

So, not uncommon to see toilet paper cores, shampoo/mouthwash bottles,
etc. These are too big for us to want to put them in our regular
"trash bags" (indoors). So, the recycling option works to our benefit
(otherwise, we'd have to carry them out to the trash can, outside)

[We also wash and reuse our ziploc bags -- typ used for storing items
in the freezer. Though I have been moving to rigid containers as they
pack better (plastic bags have no real "form" and just kind of
"slouch")]

We've been using Rubbermaid containers for years as they are easy to
store, wash, and reuse. We have an assortment of ziploc bags in a
drawer, but mostly just use them when we travel (packaging we don't need
to bring back home).

We use rubbermaid and tupperware containers for food storage. E.g.,
I have many 3C containers that are permanently stained "tomato red" :

But, in the past, we've used bags to store things like individually
wrapped steaks, chicken brests cut into small pieces and individually
wrapped, hot dogs wrapped in pairs, pecans/walnuts/almonds in smaller
bags (which are then packed in a larger bag), mozzarella cheese in
~2C batches in small bags inside larger bags, etc.

I recently switched to small ~1/2 cu ft containers to use in their
place. But, you can't easily repack the things that have now
"conformally fit" into the bags; they no longer have nice, regular
shapes that would settle into a rigid container well.

So, we're waiting for our "past stores" to dwindle to the point that
we can replace them in the *new* containers.

Medicines are recycled at special annual recycling events FOR
pharmaceuticals.

Thankfully, I haven't reached a point that I need to take regular
medications. We always use up our over-the-counter meds so we don't have
those leftover either.

I've had Rx pain meds prescribed (prophylacticly) a few times in the
past. Or, Rx cough medications. Usually, I don't need them. So, they
sit on a shelf "just in case".

After a while, they lose their efficacy (actually, it is a LONG while!)
and have to be disposed of.

[Antibiotics always get consumed in their entirety]

The only OTC stuff I buy is Advil. And, we don't buy that in "Costco
quantities" so there's no concern of it expiring before we can use it.
(a bottle of 100 tablets probably lasts close to 2 years or more -- for
the two of us!)

On 05/03/2016 09:37 AM, HerHusband wrote:

[snip]

That's one of the reasons I like building my own computers. I only
replace the parts that need updating, such as a hard drive or graphics
card. Other than my laptop, I haven't bought a packaged PC in over 20
years.


Recently, my biggest computer failed. It was the power supply, and
replacing that fixed it. A lot of people would have had to replace the
whole thing (and create more trash) and spend a few hours reinstalling
everything (or actually a few days of weeks waiting for someone else to
do it), and possibly complaining about the lack of backups.

BTW, I'm thinking of the neighbor who became an unwilling victim of
Windows 10.

In most cases, I've been able to sell my old motherboards and other
computer parts on eBay.


I have sold some too (including my first "PC", with a 8088-compatible
V20 processor and 30MB hard disk that won't work with Windows).

[snip]

We have curbside recycling on Thursday, and sometimes the pickup is
late. I will look through the mail while standing next to the recycle
bin. Most of it goes directly in there.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"I think the Zapruder film was arranged [by] Jesus, so that this
particular 'terrible head wound' would be seen by the whole word for
over 3 decades." [John Prewett, net.fundie.idiot]

On 5/2/2016 10:39 PM, Arthur Cresswell wrote:

Yeah, but what is in the waste bin in a bathroom?
I find bottles of shampoo and tissues and q tips and hair nets and
cardboard hair coloring, etc.

All of which is recyclable.



Shampoo bottles, yes. So you want to recycle a snotty tissue? Icky Q
tips? That stuff should be incinerated after you wipe your body
secretions on it.