My brother has 20" of snow on a 5/12 roof in Maryland, and rain has been forecasted for Tuesday.

Is the greatest danger from snow weight or from ice damming?

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

Thank you very much in advance.

Jutta Gibb

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:19:06 -0800 (PST), wrote:

My brother has 20" of snow on a 5/12 roof in Maryland, and rain has been forecasted for Tuesday.

Is the greatest danger from snow weight or from ice damming?

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

Thank you very much in advance.

Jutta Gibb
A good snow rake, for sure.

On 1/24/2016 2:19 PM, wrote:
My brother has 20" of snow on a 5/12 roof in Maryland, and rain has been forecasted for Tuesday.

Is the greatest danger from snow weight or from ice damming?

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

Thank you very much in advance.

Jutta Gibb


Wet snow. Super heavy.
Shovel, or roof rake is a good idea.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 1/24/2016 2:19 PM, wrote:
My brother has 20" of snow on a 5/12 roof in Maryland, and rain has been forecasted for Tuesday.

Is the greatest danger from snow weight or from ice damming?

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

Thank you very much in advance.

Jutta Gibb



If he can clear the two feet nearest the edge it will prevent most of
the damming. They make snow rakes to pull the snow off safely. Of
course. store may be sold out already.

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:19:06 -0800 (PST), wrote:

My brother has 20" of snow on a 5/12 roof in Maryland, and rain has been forecasted for Tuesday.

I'm in Maryland, NW of Baltimore.

We had 30" of snow last night, but looking at my n'bors' townhouses,
they have only about 5" of snow on them. Maybe too much hot air in
the attic? Some of the snow is falling off the trees too.

The pictch is about 7-8/20 which is 4.2 to 4.8 over 12. I guess there
are no roofs that are 4.2/12, so maybe it's 4 or 5. Not much
different from your brother's.

Is the greatest danger from snow weight or from ice damming?\

Is he susceptible to ice dams?

He could go in the attic and maybe get an idea. Is any part of the
roof sagging?

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

I havent' done this but maybe hit the roof pretty hard with a baseball
bat and get some of the snow to slide off.

Worry about the north side of the house. I realize I'm looking at the
south side, or east and west sides, of my n'bors. I can't see any
north sides but I know they get less sun and melt slower.

Thank you very much in advance.

Jutta Gibb

On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 2:19:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
My brother has 20" of snow on a 5/12 roof in Maryland, and rain has been forecasted for Tuesday.

Is the greatest danger from snow weight or from ice damming?

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

Thank you very much in advance.

Jutta Gibb

Others have suggested a snow rake, but you didn't mention how many stories the
has. I use a snow rake on my garage overhang, but there is no way I can reach the
roof on the main part of the house.

I do not suggest using a snow rake while on a ladder.

Hopefully, the roof system is such that the ice damming issue was taken into account
when the roof was put on. Proper insulation, ice shield, attic venting, etc. If you are
concerned about ice dams, you could fill some stockings or pantyhose with rock salt
and place them along the edge of the roof to melt some snow and give the water a place
to run off.

You could also get some ice melt wires and spread them on the edge of the roof.
Ideally, they work best when installed properly *before* it snows, but they should
help prevent ice dams a little if you can get them to melt down and lay along the
edge of the roof.

Good luck!

On 1/24/2016 12:19 PM, wrote:
My brother has 20" of snow on a 5/12 roof in Maryland, and rain has been
forecasted for Tuesday.

Is the greatest danger from snow weight or from ice damming?

The accumulated snow will want to trap additional moisture.

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

***If*** he (or his designated grunt) is physically fit, try to clear
"as much as he can reach COMFORTABLY" from a ladder at the drip line.
Ensure the gutters are clear of debris/packed snow as that will
help keep water (from rain and snow melt) from backing up UNDER
the lowest courses of shingles (assuming an asphalt shingled roof).
Likewise, make sure the downspouts are clean so water doesn't dam
up inside them (and pull them -- or the gutters -- off the house).

Remember that cardiac load when working with arms above head/shoulders
is increased -- it's harder to lift a given weight of snow when your
arms are *elevated* than when they are at your sides.

Also, recall that you don't have much mobility on a ladder. So, "twisting"
to drop the snow off your rake/shovel will also put a lot of stress on
your back.

[The *last* thing you want is a visit to ER (or morgue!) in the HOPE of
avoiding a POSSIBLE roof failure.]

Remember that shingles lap over each lower course. So don't try to
"shovel" in the same way that you would when trying to SCRAPE a
driveway clean -- you'll just lift the shingles and risk breaking them
(cold/brittle).

By no means should climbing ON the roof be attempted. Too easy to
end up in a snowbank (if you are lucky!)

Thank you very much in advance.

Jutta Gibb

On 1/24/2016 1:21 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
If he can clear the two feet nearest the edge it will prevent most of the
damming. They make snow rakes to pull the snow off safely. Of course. store
may be sold out already.

Small sheet of thin plywood/masonite on a pole/2x2 will do in a
pinch. Goal is to be able to get a little at a time off as
moving a *lot* in that body position is strenuous.

Wear gloves (think: blisters/splinters).

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:19:06 -0800 (PST), wrote:

My brother has 20" of snow on a 5/12 roof in Maryland, and rain has been forecasted for Tuesday.
Is the greatest danger from snow weight or from ice damming?
What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?
Thank you very much in advance.
Jutta Gibb


Many years ago I had about 2 - 3 feet of snow-drift
on a large section of my roof, that I managed to clear by climbing up
and using my boots to break away large chunks and slide them off the
edge, it proved easier than shovelling. Now I own a snow rake.
The 3 6 foot sections plus my height allows me to get to my second
story edges. The weight and ice-dam situations are both a worry.
Good luck.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On 1/24/2016 3:21 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

If he can clear the two feet nearest the edge it will prevent most of
the damming. They make snow rakes to pull the snow off safely. Of
course. store may be sold out already.

May have better luck with snow rakes, buying
online and have it shipped in. Of course, with
Storm Jonas, the online places may well be
sold out, also.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 1/24/2016 3:39 PM, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:19:06 -0800 (PST), wrote:

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

I havent' done this but maybe hit the roof pretty hard with a baseball
bat and get some of the snow to slide off.


In Alaska, they use artillery shells launched
from a Howitzer. And they drop bags of explosive
from a helicopter. Perhaps you can use these
techniques at home?

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:25:28 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:19:06 -0800 (PST), wrote:

My brother has 20" of snow on a 5/12 roof in Maryland, and rain has been forecasted for Tuesday.

Is the greatest danger from snow weight or from ice damming?

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

Thank you very much in advance.

Jutta Gibb
A good snow rake, for sure.

A cherry picker with a snow plow blade on the bottom of the bucket!

OR

Santa Claus and his reindeer with a snow plow blade on the bottom of the
sleigh.

OR

A remote controlled flying snow blower with GPS.

OR

Hydraulic cylinders that can flip the roof upside down.

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 17:34:56 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/24/2016 3:39 PM, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:19:06 -0800 (PST), wrote:

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

I havent' done this but maybe hit the roof pretty hard with a baseball
bat and get some of the snow to slide off.


In Alaska, they use artillery shells launched
from a Howitzer. And they drop bags of explosive
from a helicopter. Perhaps you can use these
techniques at home?

Use a drone to drag a snow rake.

It's dark here now. I should have suggested before, but he can just
tie a 2 or 3 foot stick to a rope or a heavy string and throw it on
the roof, then pull it off. That will start the snow coming off.
-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.

Micky wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 17:34:56 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/24/2016 3:39 PM, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:19:06 -0800 (PST), wrote:

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

I havent' done this but maybe hit the roof pretty hard with a baseball
bat and get some of the snow to slide off.


In Alaska, they use artillery shells launched
from a Howitzer. And they drop bags of explosive
from a helicopter. Perhaps you can use these
techniques at home?

Use a drone to drag a snow rake.

It's dark here now. I should have suggested before, but he can just
tie a 2 or 3 foot stick to a rope or a heavy string and throw it on
the roof, then pull it off. That will start the snow coming off.
-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.
Maybe small fire crackers thrown up onto roof to cause mini avalanche?
Better than having a caved in roof.

On 1/24/2016 5:55 PM, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 17:34:56 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/24/2016 3:39 PM, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:19:06 -0800 (PST), wrote:

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

I havent' done this but maybe hit the roof pretty hard with a baseball
bat and get some of the snow to slide off.


In Alaska, they use artillery shells launched
from a Howitzer. And they drop bags of explosive
from a helicopter. Perhaps you can use these
techniques at home?

Use a drone to drag a snow rake.

It's dark here now. I should have suggested before, but he can just
tie a 2 or 3 foot stick to a Do you have a delete key? Or a backspace key? It would be kind of you to delete the trailing (my) text, rather than center post. Thank you. rope or a heavy string and throw it on
the roof, then pull it off. That will start the snow coming off.
-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 1/24/2016 7:16 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 17:34:56 -0500, Stormin Mormon

In Alaska, they use artillery shells launched
from a Howitzer. And they drop bags of explosive
from a helicopter. Perhaps you can use these
techniques at home?
-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.
Maybe small fire crackers thrown up onto roof to cause mini avalanche?
Better than having a caved in roof.

I removed the text that Micky rudely center posted.

Well, that's worth a try. I doubt that small fire
crackers will do much on a shingled roof. Got to
be some thing that can be thrown onto the roof, and
pulled off with an (already atached) rope. Lets
think on this for a while. What throws, and then
drags snow?


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 2:19:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
My brother has 20" of snow on a 5/12 roof in Maryland, and rain has been forecasted for Tuesday.

Is the greatest danger from snow weight or from ice damming?

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

Thank you very much in advance.

Jutta Gibb

This is really cool - no pun intended.

Use a length of string or wire.

http://youtu.be/gEnJJeNHTLs

On 01/24/2016 02:28 PM, Don Y wrote:
Small sheet of thin plywood/masonite on a pole/2x2 will do in a
pinch. Goal is to be able to get a little at a time off as
moving a *lot* in that body position is strenuous.

It goes without saying* but if you're working off a ladder, moving the
snow directly above you isn't a good idea.

* in the northern states. A Maryland native might be completely clueless
about snow.

On 01/24/2016 03:34 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
In Alaska, they use artillery shells launched
from a Howitzer. And they drop bags of explosive
from a helicopter. Perhaps you can use these
techniques at home?

-

Avalanche control? How not to do it:

http://missoulian.com/news/local/chi...9bb2963f4.html

On 1/24/2016 8:02 PM, rbowman wrote:

Avalanche control? How not to do it:

http://missoulian.com/news/local/chi...9bb2963f4.html



Story from March 2014. But, still interesting.

Got to be spooky, playing in the yard and then
get burried by avalanche.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 1/24/2016 5:56 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 01/24/2016 02:28 PM, Don Y wrote:
Small sheet of thin plywood/masonite on a pole/2x2 will do in a
pinch. Goal is to be able to get a little at a time off as
moving a *lot* in that body position is strenuous.

It goes without saying* but if you're working off a ladder, moving the snow
directly above you isn't a good idea.

* in the northern states. A Maryland native might be completely clueless about
snow.

It snows in MD.

I'm not sure most folks know much of *anything*!

A friend wasn't feeling well and drove herself to the hospital
last week. She was found by a cop, in her car, on the side
of the road -- having suffered a major stroke.

I'm sure her kids are happy they won't have to pay that AMBULANCE
bill out of her estate...

On 1/24/2016 9:00 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/24/2016 5:56 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 01/24/2016 02:28 PM, Don Y wrote:
Small sheet of thin plywood/masonite on a pole/2x2 will do in a
pinch. Goal is to be able to get a little at a time off as
moving a *lot* in that body position is strenuous.

It goes without saying* but if you're working off a ladder, moving the
snow
directly above you isn't a good idea.

* in the northern states. A Maryland native might be completely
clueless about
snow.

It snows in MD.

I'm not sure most folks know much of *anything*!

A friend wasn't feeling well and drove herself to the hospital
last week. She was found by a cop, in her car, on the side
of the road -- having suffered a major stroke.

I'm sure her kids are happy they won't have to pay that AMBULANCE
bill out of her estate...

We found out that ambulance service was covered by an insurance policy
we paid for by paying a little extra on our electric bill every month
for the last umpteen years. We'd forgotten we had that coverage, and
when I ended up being taken by ambulance twice to the hospital last year
we were told don't worry about the bill - we're covered.

--
Maggie

On 1/24/2016 9:56 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 1/24/2016 9:00 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/24/2016 5:56 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 01/24/2016 02:28 PM, Don Y wrote:
Small sheet of thin plywood/masonite on a pole/2x2 will do in a
pinch. Goal is to be able to get a little at a time off as
moving a *lot* in that body position is strenuous.

It goes without saying* but if you're working off a ladder, moving the
snow
directly above you isn't a good idea.

* in the northern states. A Maryland native might be completely
clueless about
snow.

It snows in MD.

I'm not sure most folks know much of *anything*!

A friend wasn't feeling well and drove herself to the hospital
last week. She was found by a cop, in her car, on the side
of the road -- having suffered a major stroke.

I'm sure her kids are happy they won't have to pay that AMBULANCE
bill out of her estate...

We found out that ambulance service was covered by an insurance policy
we paid for by paying a little extra on our electric bill every month
for the last umpteen years. We'd forgotten we had that coverage, and
when I ended up being taken by ambulance twice to the hospital last year
we were told don't worry about the bill - we're covered.

My point was: she worried about "a few dollars" (regardless of how MANY
dollars it may have been -- surely not much given what it costs to walk
into the ER, where she was headed!) and it cost her her life.

Not very sound reasoning.

On 01/24/2016 10:00 PM, Don Y wrote:
It snows in MD.

I'm not sure most folks know much of *anything*!

A friend wasn't feeling well and drove herself to the hospital
last week. She was found by a cop, in her car, on the side
of the road -- having suffered a major stroke.

I'm sure her kids are happy they won't have to pay that AMBULANCE
bill out of her estate...

refined carbohydrates - metabolic syndrome - stroke

An ambulance won't prevent any of that.

On 1/24/16 2:19 PM, wrote:
My brother has 20" of snow on a 5/12 roof in Maryland, and rain has been forecasted for Tuesday.

Is the greatest danger from snow weight or from ice damming?

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

Thank you very much in advance.

Jutta Gibb


State Farm, Travelers, GEICO...and five Hail Marys...

--
I’m so old I can remember when other people's achievements were
considered to be an inspiration rather than a grievance.
— Thomas Sowell

On 1/25/2016 2:23 AM, klm wrote:
On 01/24/2016 10:00 PM, Don Y wrote:
It snows in MD.

I'm not sure most folks know much of *anything*!

A friend wasn't feeling well and drove herself to the hospital
last week. She was found by a cop, in her car, on the side
of the road -- having suffered a major stroke.

I'm sure her kids are happy they won't have to pay that AMBULANCE
bill out of her estate...

refined carbohydrates - metabolic syndrome - stroke

An ambulance won't prevent any of that.

An ambulance ensures someone with an eye for symptoms
is on hand *before* and *during* the episode. Also
ensures the impaired driver doesn't take the life of
an innocent in the process.

Who knows how long she sat, dying, on the side of the road
with no one to notice nor do anything to assist.

On 1/25/2016 9:39 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/25/2016 2:23 AM, klm wrote:
On 01/24/2016 10:00 PM, Don Y wrote:
It snows in MD.

I'm not sure most folks know much of *anything*!

A friend wasn't feeling well and drove herself to the hospital
last week. She was found by a cop, in her car, on the side
of the road -- having suffered a major stroke.

I'm sure her kids are happy they won't have to pay that AMBULANCE
bill out of her estate...

refined carbohydrates - metabolic syndrome - stroke

An ambulance won't prevent any of that.

An ambulance ensures someone with an eye for symptoms
is on hand *before* and *during* the episode. Also
ensures the impaired driver doesn't take the life of
an innocent in the process.

Who knows how long she sat, dying, on the side of the road
with no one to notice nor do anything to assist.

What amazes me is how people are making judgements but don't know many
facts. We have no way to tell just how she felt. It may not have been
serious when she left and had no idea what the end result would be.

I've twice seen cases where a person did not feel well but did not think
it serious. One turned out to be congestive heart failure, the other
was a burst intestine that was surgery a couple of hours later.

I've seen the opposite too. Person taken by ambulnace and it turns out
to be a minor problem.

On 1/25/2016 9:47 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/25/2016 9:39 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/25/2016 2:23 AM, klm wrote:
On 01/24/2016 10:00 PM, Don Y wrote:
It snows in MD.

I'm not sure most folks know much of *anything*!

A friend wasn't feeling well and drove herself to the hospital
last week. She was found by a cop, in her car, on the side
of the road -- having suffered a major stroke.

I'm sure her kids are happy they won't have to pay that AMBULANCE
bill out of her estate...

refined carbohydrates - metabolic syndrome - stroke

An ambulance won't prevent any of that.

An ambulance ensures someone with an eye for symptoms
is on hand *before* and *during* the episode. Also
ensures the impaired driver doesn't take the life of
an innocent in the process.

Who knows how long she sat, dying, on the side of the road
with no one to notice nor do anything to assist.

What amazes me is how people are making judgements but don't know many facts.
We have no way to tell just how she felt. It may not have been serious when
she left and had no idea what the end result would be.

Woman in question had a habit of avoiding ambulance rides.
I don't know if it was the cost or the embarassment (having
neighbors seeing you carted off) or just not wanting to
have "strangers" in her house (another embarassment?).

She'd floated the idea numerous times in the past of
asking *us* to drive her to the hospital in these situations.
We made it abundantly clear: if you need a ride for a
doctor's appointment, etc. feel free to ask. If it's
an EMERGENCY, then don't put US in the position of
having to assume responsibility for your welfare! The
ambulance/paramedics can get to your house in far less
time than *we* can (she's 3 or 4 miles FARTHER outside
of town than we are -- and we're a good 15 minutes drive
time from the nearest hospital, esp as we'd have to obey
traffic regulations, etc.)

I've twice seen cases where a person did not feel well but did not think it
serious. One turned out to be congestive heart failure, the other was a burst
intestine that was surgery a couple of hours later.

When you're pushing 80 and have a history of health issues, you
don't gamble. "Penny wise, pound foolish"

I've seen the opposite too. Person taken by ambulnace and it turns out to be a
minor problem.

I've visited the ER three times in ~25 years:
- "splattered" a fingertip one afternoon (a few stitches and a 5 hour wait)
- drove fingernail onto a "spike" (remove foreign body, cleanse and 5 hrs)
- *extreme* ache in lower extremities

In the first case, I could see the extent of the injury and had someone
on hand to drive me. First Aid training had me prepared to control the
bleeding, etc.

In the second case, I was on the hospital grounds when it occured and
just needed a "lift" to travel the two blocks to the ER entrance.

In the last case, I considered my previous two experiences (having been
"#1" in the triage priority list in each case -- and still having had to
spend 5 hours in each case!) and opted to just go back home. Given
that there were no *visible* signs of injury that could be easily
identified/treated, I figured I'd probably spend MORE THAN 5 hours
to see someone (as it wasn't likely that I'd be "top of the priority
list") and would probably get sent home, none the wiser. *Or*,
given an expensive BED to spend the weekend waiting for whatever.

In hindsight, the first incident was handled appropriately. No need
for an ambulance. Yet, avoiding the ER would have been a mistake
(no way to stuff all those "inside" back into the skin! : )

The second incident I could have avoided the ER -- had I not been
on the grounds, already. Recounting it to my MD/PCP prompted him to
push for a DPT booster (advisable given the amount of work I do
outdoors, etc.)

The third incident I shouldn't have bothered *going* to the hospital
in the first place as I could have come to the same conclusions
had I done all of the "thinking" at home before getting into the
car (so, I wasted 40 minutes: 15+15 driving and 10 minutes thinking
about it).

On 1/25/2016 12:14 PM, Don Y wrote:


What amazes me is how people are making judgements but don't know many
facts.
We have no way to tell just how she felt. It may not have been
serious when
she left and had no idea what the end result would be.

Woman in question had a habit of avoiding ambulance rides.
I don't know if it was the cost or the embarassment (having
neighbors seeing you carted off) or just not wanting to
have "strangers" in her house (another embarassment?).

She'd floated the idea numerous times in the past of
asking *us* to drive her to the hospital in these situations.
We made it abundantly clear: if you need a ride for a
doctor's appointment, etc. feel free to ask. If it's
an EMERGENCY, then don't put US in the position of
having to assume responsibility for your welfare! The
ambulance/paramedics can get to your house in far less
time than *we* can (she's 3 or 4 miles FARTHER outside
of town than we are -- and we're a good 15 minutes drive
time from the nearest hospital, esp as we'd have to obey
traffic regulations, etc.)


Ah, the rest of the story. Ambulance would have been appropriate for her.

On 1/25/2016 12:39 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/25/2016 12:14 PM, Don Y wrote:


What amazes me is how people are making judgements but don't know many
facts.
We have no way to tell just how she felt. It may not have been
serious when
she left and had no idea what the end result would be.

Woman in question had a habit of avoiding ambulance rides.
I don't know if it was the cost or the embarassment (having
neighbors seeing you carted off) or just not wanting to
have "strangers" in her house (another embarassment?).

She'd floated the idea numerous times in the past of
asking *us* to drive her to the hospital in these situations.
We made it abundantly clear: if you need a ride for a
doctor's appointment, etc. feel free to ask. If it's
an EMERGENCY, then don't put US in the position of
having to assume responsibility for your welfare! The
ambulance/paramedics can get to your house in far less
time than *we* can (she's 3 or 4 miles FARTHER outside
of town than we are -- and we're a good 15 minutes drive
time from the nearest hospital, esp as we'd have to obey
traffic regulations, etc.)

Ah, the rest of the story. Ambulance would have been appropriate for her.

If you're considering a trip to the ER, ambulance is most likely
the appropriate means of conveyance! She saved herself a few
dollars, and some embarassment (?) -- and, thankfully, didn't
leave her kids with a liability lawsuit (if she'd hit anyone
while driving or otherwise damaged property).

On 1/24/2016 2:19 PM, wrote:
My brother has 20" of snow on a 5/12 roof in Maryland, and rain has been forecasted for Tuesday.

Is the greatest danger from snow weight or from ice damming?

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

Thank you very much in advance.

Jutta Gibb


Off hand, I'm thinking that this is about 350 lb of snow.
I've been wondering about my deck in the same situation and it would
amount to several people which the deck could easily handle.
If he can safely walk around on the roof, it should be safe but if not
he should probably push off what he can.

You might check my calculations which I just did in my head considering
an inch of water is equivalent to a foot of snow.

On 1/24/2016 2:19 PM, wrote:
My brother has 20" of snow on a 5/12 roof in Maryland, and rain has
been forecasted for Tuesday.

Is the greatest danger from snow weight or from ice damming?

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

Thank you very much in advance.

Jutta Gibb


Ice dam. The weight of the snow is distributed over the entire surface
area covered with snow and if the roof is pitched and structurally
sound. it should bear the load OK. Remember that sometime rather heavy
workman may walk around on a roof without damaging it.

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On 1/25/2016 12:59 PM, Frank wrote:
On 1/24/2016 2:19 PM, wrote:
My brother has 20" of snow on a 5/12 roof in Maryland, and rain has been
forecasted for Tuesday.

Is the greatest danger from snow weight or from ice damming?

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

Thank you very much in advance.

Jutta Gibb


Off hand, I'm thinking that this is about 350 lb of snow.

What???! Did you slip a decimal, or so??

I've been wondering about my deck in the same situation and it would amount to
several people which the deck could easily handle.
If he can safely walk around on the roof, it should be safe but if not he
should probably push off what he can.

You might check my calculations which I just did in my head considering an inch
of water is equivalent to a foot of snow.

An inch of rain is about 10 inches of snow. So, he's got about 2 inches of
water sitting on his roof -- or, 1/6 cubic foot per square foot.

A cubic foot of water is "about" 8 gallons. A gallon is "about" 8 pounds
(pint ~= pound). So, cubic foot is "about" 64 pounds. He's got 1/6
of that -- about 10 pounds per square foot.

But, that's with *0* pitch.

Given that he's got a 5/12 slope (5" rise over 12" run), that's ~22 degrees.
So, there's only ~9 pounds of DOWNWARD force on the roof (the rest is
converted to a LATERAL force pushing outward against the supporting wall).

"Don Y" wrote in message

stuff snipped

I am betting it's the cost. Anyone whose seen a recent ambulance bills
would be wary of the cost, even with insurance.

Woman in question had a habit of avoiding ambulance rides.
I don't know if it was the cost or the embarassment (having
neighbors seeing you carted off) or just not wanting to
have "strangers" in her house (another embarassment?).

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/he...ance-bill.html

Kira Milas has no idea who called 911, summoning an ambulance filled with
emergency medical technicians. Ms. Milas, 23, was working as a swim
instructor for the summer and had swum into the side of the pool, breaking
three teeth. Skaken, she accepted the ambulance ride to Scripps Memorial
Hospital in La Jolla, Calif. The paramedics applied a neck brace as a
precaution.

A week later she received a bill for the 15-minute trip: $1,772.42. Though
her employer’s workers’ compensation will cover the bill, she still was
stunned at the charge. “We only drove nine miles and it was a
non-life-threatening injury,” she said in a phone interview. “I needed
absolutely no emergency treatment.”

Medicare, the insurance program for the elderly, does tabulate its numbers
and has become alarmed at its fast-rising expenditures for ambulance rides:
nearly $6 billion a year, up from just $2 billion in 2002 . . .

Some [insurers] will grant coverage if the destination was an emergency
room, regardless of the patient’s status, but others may require admittance
to the hospital as evidence that the condition was serious . . .

But when an ambulance arrives, sick patients or injured people like Ms.
Milas, often feel they have little choice but to get in, unaware of the
potential price tag . . .

Some companies even charge hundreds of dollars extra if a friend or relative
rides along with an injured patients.

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Bobby G.

On 1/25/2016 4:41 PM, Robert Green wrote:
"Don Y" wrote in message

stuff snipped

I am betting it's the cost. Anyone whose seen a recent ambulance bills
would be wary of the cost, even with insurance.

Then why bother with the ER instead of "urgent care" or her PCP?

It's just bad reasoning.

Neighbor's wife on some heavy duty meds: "Do not drive while you
are on this Rx!"

Ah, but wifey doesn't like waiting around for the FREE "handy car"
service that the city offers. So, she's out on the road every
chance she gets (instead of planning her travels so she can take
advantage of said service -- usually very punctual *if* you
SCHEDULE a pickup; but, can't just say "come get me, NOW!")

Husband thinks nothing of this -- good Conservative: Rules
are for the OTHER guys!

I casually commented: "What will you do if she gets in a wreck
and the MD testifies that he told her not to drive? What will
you do if she TAKES A LIFE in the process? Just shrug? What
will you do if they take your *house* in the lawsuit that follows?"

As I said, upthread: people have poor reasoning/decision making skills.

Woman in question had a habit of avoiding ambulance rides.
I don't know if it was the cost or the embarassment (having
neighbors seeing you carted off) or just not wanting to
have "strangers" in her house (another embarassment?).

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/he...ance-bill.html

Kira Milas has no idea who called 911, summoning an ambulance filled with
emergency medical technicians. Ms. Milas, 23, was working as a swim
instructor for the summer and had swum into the side of the pool, breaking
three teeth. Skaken, she accepted the ambulance ride to Scripps Memorial
Hospital in La Jolla, Calif. The paramedics applied a neck brace as a
precaution.

A week later she received a bill for the 15-minute trip: $1,772.42. Though
her employer’s workers’ compensation will cover the bill, she still was
stunned at the charge. “We only drove nine miles and it was a
non-life-threatening injury,” she said in a phone interview. “I needed
absolutely no emergency treatment.”

Medicare, the insurance program for the elderly, does tabulate its numbers
and has become alarmed at its fast-rising expenditures for ambulance rides:
nearly $6 billion a year, up from just $2 billion in 2002 . . .

This suggests Medicare would have covered the trip?

Some [insurers] will grant coverage if the destination was an emergency
room, regardless of the patient’s status, but others may require admittance
to the hospital as evidence that the condition was serious . . .

But when an ambulance arrives, sick patients or injured people like Ms.
Milas, often feel they have little choice but to get in, unaware of the
potential price tag . . .

Here, we are more concerned with where they *take* us. Certain
institutions are run by religious orders (won't honor DNR's, etc.).
Others aren't particularly known for good care. Etc.

Moral: get sick at home, avoid getting in traffic accidents
(esp if close to one of the "undesirable" providers!)

Some companies even charge hundreds of dollars extra if a friend or relative
rides along with an injured patients.

Many folks are airlifted for care, here -- too many remote areas
where land carriers would take too long for each leg of the trip.
Gotta wonder what one of *those* rides costs?!

On 1/25/2016 3:25 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/25/2016 12:59 PM, Frank wrote:
On 1/24/2016 2:19 PM, wrote:
My brother has 20" of snow on a 5/12 roof in Maryland, and rain has been
forecasted for Tuesday.

Is the greatest danger from snow weight or from ice damming?

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

Thank you very much in advance.

Jutta Gibb


Off hand, I'm thinking that this is about 350 lb of snow.

What???! Did you slip a decimal, or so??

I've been wondering about my deck in the same situation and it would
amount to
several people which the deck could easily handle.
If he can safely walk around on the roof, it should be safe but if not he
should probably push off what he can.

You might check my calculations which I just did in my head
considering an inch
of water is equivalent to a foot of snow.

An inch of rain is about 10 inches of snow. So, he's got about 2 inches of
water sitting on his roof -- or, 1/6 cubic foot per square foot.

A cubic foot of water is "about" 8 gallons. A gallon is "about" 8 pounds
(pint ~= pound). So, cubic foot is "about" 64 pounds. He's got 1/6
of that -- about 10 pounds per square foot.

But, that's with *0* pitch.

Given that he's got a 5/12 slope (5" rise over 12" run), that's ~22
degrees.
So, there's only ~9 pounds of DOWNWARD force on the roof (the rest is
converted to a LATERAL force pushing outward against the supporting wall).

Thanks. Did not realize that 5/12 meant slope and that it was not a
flat roof. Have read various densities for snow and his could be
heavier. Our snow was fortunately light and easy for my snow thrower.
My calc. would be ~6 lb/ft2 so we are not far off. Sometimes my head
does slip a decimal or more

On 1/25/2016 5:49 PM, Frank wrote:
On 1/25/2016 3:25 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/25/2016 12:59 PM, Frank wrote:
On 1/24/2016 2:19 PM, wrote:
My brother has 20" of snow on a 5/12 roof in Maryland, and rain has been
forecasted for Tuesday.

Is the greatest danger from snow weight or from ice damming?

What would be the best strategy for the next 24 hours?

Thank you very much in advance.

Jutta Gibb


Off hand, I'm thinking that this is about 350 lb of snow.

What???! Did you slip a decimal, or so??

I've been wondering about my deck in the same situation and it would
amount to
several people which the deck could easily handle.
If he can safely walk around on the roof, it should be safe but if not he
should probably push off what he can.

You might check my calculations which I just did in my head
considering an inch
of water is equivalent to a foot of snow.

An inch of rain is about 10 inches of snow. So, he's got about 2 inches of
water sitting on his roof -- or, 1/6 cubic foot per square foot.

A cubic foot of water is "about" 8 gallons. A gallon is "about" 8 pounds
(pint ~= pound). So, cubic foot is "about" 64 pounds. He's got 1/6
of that -- about 10 pounds per square foot.

But, that's with *0* pitch.

Given that he's got a 5/12 slope (5" rise over 12" run), that's ~22
degrees.
So, there's only ~9 pounds of DOWNWARD force on the roof (the rest is
converted to a LATERAL force pushing outward against the supporting wall).

Thanks. Did not realize that 5/12 meant slope and that it was not a flat
roof. Have read various densities for snow and his could be heavier. Our snow
was fortunately light and easy for my snow thrower.

(pending) Rain complicates the math as it alters the "density" of the
snow (for want of a better word). In New England, we often had very "wet"
snows -- 6 inches would be too heavy to lift a shovelful (cuz the lower
3 inches would be "slush")

My calc. would be ~6 lb/ft2 so we are not far off. Sometimes my head does slip
a decimal or more

Brain fart. :

Or, the explanation my friend offers most often: "keyboard error"! ;-)

On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 5:54:25 PM UTC-6, Robert Green wrote:

I am betting it's the cost. Anyone whose seen a recent ambulance bills
would be wary of the cost, even with insurance.


Speaking of ambulance costs, last year my 12 mile ambulance ride was billed at $7,500. Of course, they ended up settling for about 10% from Medicare. I pity the poor guy with no insurance who is responsible for the full amount. A screwy system.

On 1/24/2016 11:16 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/24/2016 9:56 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 1/24/2016 9:00 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/24/2016 5:56 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 01/24/2016 02:28 PM, Don Y wrote:
Small sheet of thin plywood/masonite on a pole/2x2 will do in a
pinch. Goal is to be able to get a little at a time off as
moving a *lot* in that body position is strenuous.

It goes without saying* but if you're working off a ladder, moving the
snow
directly above you isn't a good idea.

* in the northern states. A Maryland native might be completely
clueless about
snow.

It snows in MD.

I'm not sure most folks know much of *anything*!

A friend wasn't feeling well and drove herself to the hospital
last week. She was found by a cop, in her car, on the side
of the road -- having suffered a major stroke.

I'm sure her kids are happy they won't have to pay that AMBULANCE
bill out of her estate...


We found out that ambulance service was covered by an insurance policy
we paid for by paying a little extra on our electric bill every month
for the last umpteen years. We'd forgotten we had that coverage, and
when I ended up being taken by ambulance twice to the hospital last year
we were told don't worry about the bill - we're covered.


My point was: she worried about "a few dollars" (regardless of how MANY
dollars it may have been -- surely not much given what it costs to walk
into the ER, where she was headed!) and it cost her her life.

Not very sound reasoning.

She may not have thought she needed an ambulance.

--
Maggie

wrote:
On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 5:54:25 PM UTC-6, Robert Green wrote:

I am betting it's the cost. Anyone whose seen a recent ambulance bills
would be wary of the cost, even with insurance.


Speaking of ambulance costs, last year my 12 mile ambulance ride was billed at $7,500. Of course, they ended up settling for about 10% from Medicare. I pity the poor guy with no insurance who is responsible for the full amount. A screwy system.

Supposes to be most powerful, modern U.S. some people are not covered
for that? Even Czechoslovakia has every one covered.