Admittedly there may have been a big thaw but it looks more like a
construction flaw being to blame than the snow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21212792

"A family has been forced to leave their home in South Yorkshire after a
part of it collapsed under the weight of the snow, the fire service has
said."

Tim

On Jan 26, 7:11*pm, Tim+
wrote:
Admittedly there may have been a big thaw but it looks more like a
construction flaw being to blame than the snow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21212792

"A family has been forced to leave their home in South Yorkshire after a
part of it collapsed under the weight of the snow, the fire service has
said."

Tim

Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Owain wrote:
On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote:
Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car
port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable
end of the council property down.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a
few bricks and the wall above would follow

Owain

That makes sense. I wonder how many folk think about that when fitting a
cantilevered roof like that?

Tim

On 26/01/2013 19:35, Owain wrote:
On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote:
Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car
port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable
end of the council property down.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a
few bricks and the wall above would follow

Which still comes down to poor construction, as Tim suggested.

Colin Bignell

Owain wrote:

On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote:
Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car
port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable
end of the council property down.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a
few bricks and the wall above would follow

Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it!

http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b

"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Admittedly there may have been a big thaw but it looks more like a
construction flaw being to blame than the snow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21212792

"A family has been forced to leave their home in South Yorkshire after a
part of it collapsed under the weight of the snow, the fire service has
said."

Tim

Did you manage to find the lock on your car?

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Owain wrote:

On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote:
Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car
port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable
end of the council property down.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a
few bricks and the wall above would follow

Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it!

http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b



Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ...

http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:47:30 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a
few bricks and the wall above would follow

Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it!

http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b

Good Grief! No wonder it collapsed with just a few inches of snow on it.
The supporting wall would have to have to be pretty damn strong for that
design to work. I'm thinking a number of 6" I beams 3 or 4 feet into the
ground, though if cast into the raft/foundations one could probably
reduce that.

Some one really didn't do their home work properly when they designed
that or maybe it was supposed to have supports along the distant edge and
the builders didn't bother. The edge looks very close to if not
overhanging the boundary.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 26/01/2013 20:30, Andy Bartlett wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Owain wrote:

On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote:
Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car
port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable
end of the council property down.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a
few bricks and the wall above would follow

Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it!

http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b



Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ...

http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z




Do you think its the down pipe or the 1x1 that's holding it up?
Maybe the 1x1 is bracing the half finished fence?

Andy Bartlett wrote:

"Andy Burns" wrote:

http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b

Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ...

http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z

A bit of 50mmx50mm nailed to a fence and the plastic downpipe!

You'd hope there was more than those two gallows brackets holding each
of them up ...

dennis@home wrote:

On 26/01/2013 20:30, Andy Bartlett wrote:

http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z

Do you think its the down pipe or the 1x1 that's holding it up?

Yes, 50mmx50mm was too generous, maybe 38mmx38mm ?

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 20:30:40 +0000, Andy Bartlett wrote:

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Owain wrote:

On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote:
Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car
port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable
end of the council property down.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...ouse-caves-in-
under-heavy-snow-3367946/

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a
few bricks and the wall above would follow

Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it!

http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b



Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ...

http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z

Eeeep!

Looks like they got a twofer deal from some supplier of badly engineered
car ports.

I thought I was over engineering our new (part completed) car port but now
I'm not so sure.

Certainly can't see any 100 * 100 steel posts holding that up.

Cheers

Dave R

--
Pan in Vista on second Vista PC.

On 26/01/2013 20:30, Andy Bartlett wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Owain wrote:

On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote:
Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car
port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable
end of the council property down.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a
few bricks and the wall above would follow

Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it!

http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b



Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ...

http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z

I think the bracing on the left hand side one is actually just a down
pipe for the gutter...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Is heavy snow made from heavy water?

Brian

--
From the Bed of Brian Gaff.
The email is valid as
Blind user.
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Admittedly there may have been a big thaw but it looks more like a
construction flaw being to blame than the snow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21212792

"A family has been forced to leave their home in South Yorkshire after a
part of it collapsed under the weight of the snow, the fire service has
said."

Tim

Andy Burns wrote:
Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it!
http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b

That's a whole new definition of "cantilevered" I've not come across
before.

JGH

On 26/01/2013 19:29, harry wrote:
On Jan 26, 7:11 pm, Tim+
wrote:
Admittedly there may have been a big thaw but it looks more like a
construction flaw being to blame than the snow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21212792

"A family has been forced to leave their home in South Yorkshire after a
part of it collapsed under the weight of the snow, the fire service has
said."

Tim

Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.


About 8 inches just south in Sheffield. Nearly all gone now.

Rob

Andy Bartlett wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Owain wrote:

On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote:
Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto
a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought
the gable end of the council property down.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull
out a few bricks and the wall above would follow

Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it!

http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b



Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ...

http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z

Next door had the same arrangement! The council have removed it.


--
Adam

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , David.WE.Roberts
escribió:

Looks like they got a twofer deal from some supplier of badly
engineered car ports.

They just look so *wrong* somehow. Mind you, the houses themselves
are nothing special either.

Council houses.

--
Adam

In article
,
Owain wrote:
Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car
port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable
end of the council property down.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a
few bricks and the wall above would follow

Difficult to tell by the pic, but is it a timber frame house where the
brickwork ain't load bearing? If so, it wouldn't take much to break it.

--
*Corduroy pillows are making headlines.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sunday 27 January 2013 12:25 Dave Plowman (News) wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In article
,
Owain wrote:
Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car
port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable
end of the council property down.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...ouse-caves-in-
under-heavy-snow-3367946/

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a
few bricks and the wall above would follow

Difficult to tell by the pic, but is it a timber frame house where the
brickwork ain't load bearing? If so, it wouldn't take much to break it.


It's a cavity wall, block inner. So the outer skin is not so strong given it
supports no load (usually) so there's not much bearing down on it to keep
the bricks from tipping over. Especially with a gable end...

Sadly, it seems the wall ties were *extremely* structural, given the port
falling over has torn the inner blocks off too.

Either that or it was anchored right through both leaves.



--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceived SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it."

On Sunday 27 January 2013 11:08 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Andy Bartlett wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Owain wrote:

On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote:
Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto
a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought
the gable end of the council property down.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...ouse-caves-in-
under-heavy-snow-3367946/

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull
out a few bricks and the wall above would follow

Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it!

http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b



Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ...

http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z

Next door had the same arrangement! The council have removed it.



By council, do you mean Building Control - or are these council houses, in
which case I wonder if the council actually had these fitted rather than the
occupiers? That would be very interesting...

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceived SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

On Sunday 27 January 2013 11:08 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el art�culo , David.WE.Roberts
escribi�:

Looks like they got a twofer deal from some supplier of badly
engineered car ports.

They just look so *wrong* somehow. Mind you, the houses themselves
are nothing special either.

Council houses.


OK - ignore part of my earlier question...

But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the council?
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceived SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

"It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies."

Tim Watts wrote ...



OK - ignore part of my earlier question...

But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the council?


As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the
houses were built. There is flushing along the wall above the joint.

Kenny wrote:

As they were tied into the wall

Were they though? To me it looks like they were just bolted to the outer
skin.

they must have been put up when the
houses were built. There is flushing along the wall above the joint.

Angle grinder!

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:11:57 +0000, Tim+
wrote:

Admittedly there may have been a big thaw but it looks more like a
construction flaw being to blame than the snow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21212792

Typical journalist ********.
"Weight of snow", my arse - more like ****ed builders and no cement in
the mortar.

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:35:16 -0800 (PST), Owain
wrote:

http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/

"Neighbours in Wood Street said a loud crash bellowed out down the
road and woke everyone up, with people thinking it was an earthquake
or a gas explosion."

Some incredibly stupid neighbours.

Tim Watts wrote:
On Sunday 27 January 2013 11:08 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Andy Bartlett wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Owain wrote:

On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote:
Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled
onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and
brought the gable end of the council property down.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...ouse-caves-in-
under-heavy-snow-3367946/

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could
pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow

Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it!

http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b



Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ...

http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z

Next door had the same arrangement! The council have removed it.



By council, do you mean Building Control - or are these council
houses, in which case I wonder if the council actually had these
fitted rather than the occupiers? That would be very interesting...

South Yorkshire Housing not Barnsley Council (aka Berneslai Homes), my
mistake.

--
Adam

ARW wrote:

Barnsley Council (aka Berneslai Homes)

Didn't know it was in the Black country.

On Sunday 27 January 2013 15:04 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Tim Watts wrote:
On Sunday 27 January 2013 11:08 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Andy Bartlett wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Owain wrote:

On Jan 26, 7:29 pm, harry wrote:
Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled
onto a car port at the side of the house, which gave way and
brought the gable end of the council property down.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...r-house-caves-
in-
under-heavy-snow-3367946/

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could
pull out a few bricks and the wall above would follow

Yes, I think being *that* cantilevered would do it!

http://goo.gl/maps/DIy4b



Next door has the same arrangement but it's massively braced ...

http://goo.gl/maps/pS92z

Next door had the same arrangement! The council have removed it.



By council, do you mean Building Control - or are these council
houses, in which case I wonder if the council actually had these
fitted rather than the occupiers? That would be very interesting...

South Yorkshire Housing not Barnsley Council (aka Berneslai Homes), my
mistake.


I DO hope Builing Control are taking an interest...

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceived SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

"It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies."

On 27/01/13 12:56, Tim Watts wrote:
On Sunday 27 January 2013 11:08 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el art�culo , David.WE.Roberts
escribi�:

Looks like they got a twofer deal from some supplier of badly
engineered car ports.

They just look so *wrong* somehow. Mind you, the houses themselves
are nothing special either.

Council houses.


OK - ignore part of my earlier question...

But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the council?

it would not pass any competent building inspector.

Either it had struts which were removed, or it was installed by a
frigging mate with no clue about structural design.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 27/01/13 13:10, Kenny wrote:
Tim Watts wrote ...



OK - ignore part of my earlier question...

But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the council?


As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the
houses were built. There is flushing along the wall above the joint.



that doesn't follow at ALL.
easy enouh to add flashing and tie into an existing structure.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

In article , Mike Tomlinson
writes
En el artículo , David.WE.Roberts
escribió:

Looks like they got a twofer deal from some supplier of badly engineered
car ports.

They just look so *wrong* somehow. Mind you, the houses themselves are
nothing special either.

Neighbours near my former house had a cantilevered carport; I always
thought it looked to be held up by optimism. I helped a friend put up
one of those retractable sunblinds (-rather like a shop blind). I was
very doubtful about the fixing method which was a couple of rag bolts
about 200mm apart vertically at each end. It didn't seem enough to take
the load when the blind was fully out. I asked on here for advice and
also phoned the suppliers; they said it was OK. A couple of years later
it's still up, but I reckon a strong wind or a few inches of snow would
bring it down.
--
Chris Holford

On 27/01/2013 19:54, Chris Holford wrote:
In article , Mike Tomlinson
writes
En el artículo , David.WE.Roberts
escribió:

Looks like they got a twofer deal from some supplier of badly engineered
car ports.

They just look so *wrong* somehow. Mind you, the houses themselves are
nothing special either.

Neighbours near my former house had a cantilevered carport; I always
thought it looked to be held up by optimism. I helped a friend put up
one of those retractable sunblinds (-rather like a shop blind). I was
very doubtful about the fixing method which was a couple of rag bolts
about 200mm apart vertically at each end. It didn't seem enough to take
the load when the blind was fully out. I asked on here for advice and
also phoned the suppliers; they said it was OK. A couple of years later
it's still up, but I reckon a strong wind or a few inches of snow would
bring it down.


Its retractable for a reason.

On 27/01/2013 12:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Owain wrote:
Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car
port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable
end of the council property down.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...-snow-3367946/

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a
few bricks and the wall above would follow

Difficult to tell by the pic, but is it a timber frame house where the
brickwork ain't load bearing? If so, it wouldn't take much to break it.


Gable ends aren't usually load bearing.
The roof is supported at the ends of the trussed rafters.
Sometimes the floor is supported but not always.

On 27/01/2013 19:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/01/13 13:10, Kenny wrote:
Tim Watts wrote ...



OK - ignore part of my earlier question...

But I still wonder if it was the occupiers who fitted these or the
council?


As they were tied into the wall, they must have been put up when the
houses were built. There is flushing along the wall above the joint.



that doesn't follow at ALL.
easy enouh to add flashing and tie into an existing structure.

And what is more, it will actually weaken the wall[1] making it less
able to withstand exactly the kind of force it was going to exert on it.

[1] Raking half of a whole mortar course to insert the edge of the flashing.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:37:15 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

[1] Raking half of a whole mortar course to insert the edge of the
flashing.

Flashing doesn't go that deep, an inch at the very most, so about 25%.
B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

ARW wrote:
South Yorkshire Housing not Barnsley Council (aka Berneslai Homes), my
mistake.

Akh! That's annoying. I'm a former board member and reserve
performance auditor. I'm going to have some questions to ask at the
next meeting.

JGH

On Jan 27, 2:41*pm, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:11:57 +0000, Tim+

wrote:
Admittedly there may have been a big thaw but it looks more like a
construction flaw being to blame than the snow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21212792

Typical journalist ********.
"Weight of snow", my arse - more like ****ed builders and no cement in
the mortar.

The carport did not fail.
The fixings did not fail.
It fell down because there was insufficient weight of masonry above it
to form a counterweight.
It was installed in an unsuitable location.

I can see why it might be attractive not to have supports as you can
hit them in the dark whilst parking.

On Jan 27, 9:16*pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
On 27/01/2013 19:54, Chris Holford wrote:









In article , Mike Tomlinson
writes
En el art culo , David.WE.Roberts
escribi :

Looks like they got a twofer deal from some supplier of badly engineered
car ports.

They just look so *wrong* somehow. *Mind you, the houses themselves are
nothing special either.

Neighbours near my former house had a cantilevered carport; I always
thought it looked to be held up by optimism. I helped a friend put up
one of those retractable sunblinds (-rather like a shop blind). I was
very doubtful about the fixing method which was a couple of rag bolts
about 200mm apart vertically at each end. It didn't seem enough to take
the load when the blind was fully out. I asked on here for advice and
also phoned the suppliers; they said it was OK. A couple of years later
it's still up, but I reckon a strong wind or a few inches of snow would
bring it down.

Its retractable for a reason.

So they don't deteriorate with the sun.

On Jan 27, 9:20*pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
On 27/01/2013 12:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:









In article
,
* * Owain wrote:
Doesn't look enough snow to be significant there.

Metro says: People living in the street said snow had piled onto a car
port at the side of the house, which gave way and brought the gable
end of the council property down.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/26/family...use-caves-in-u....

which sounds more plausible as a cantilevered carport could pull out a
few bricks and the wall above would follow

Difficult to tell by the pic, but is it a timber frame house where the
brickwork ain't load bearing? If so, it wouldn't take much to break it.

Gable ends aren't usually load bearing.
The roof is supported at the ends of the trussed rafters.
Sometimes the floor is supported but not always.

You are a half wit.
Traditional houses are load bearing by reason of the purlins.

Only in houses with trussed roofs are they not. Even then the gable is
supposed to be tied to the roof structure.