Newer cars have a TPMS and warn you when the pressure gets low. Now that
cold weather is here,check to see that your tire is at least the
recommended pressure. I forgot about it and this morning it was 7
degrees. One tire was 1 pound under and set off the warning. It would
not reset after driving as it had to come up even more than driving did.
Filled it up when I got home.

Not a major deal as I knew the pressure was adequate to drive, but it
annoys me to have that yellow light on when driving. I understand this
is a common happening for the first really cold snap.

On 1/5/2016 8:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Newer cars have a TPMS and warn you when the pressure gets low. Now that
cold weather is here,check to see that your tire is at least the
recommended pressure. I forgot about it and this morning it was 7
degrees. One tire was 1 pound under and set off the warning. It would
not reset after driving as it had to come up even more than driving did.
Filled it up when I got home.

Not a major deal as I knew the pressure was adequate to drive, but it
annoys me to have that yellow light on when driving. I understand this
is a common happening for the first really cold snap.

What's more annoying is when the sensor fails and it costs over $100 to
fix it at the dealer. Happened on my wife's Subaru and even though I
set pressure on all the tires a few pounds higher, would not stop.

Another example of dumbing down America by requiring these sensors.

On 1/5/2016 6:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Newer cars have a TPMS and warn you when the pressure gets low. Now that cold
weather is here,check to see that your tire is at least the recommended
pressure. I forgot about it and this morning it was 7 degrees. One tire was 1
pound under and set off the warning. It would not reset after driving as it had
to come up even more than driving did. Filled it up when I got home.

Not a major deal as I knew the pressure was adequate to drive, but it annoys me
to have that yellow light on when driving. I understand this is a common
happening for the first really cold snap.

We're back at Costco every week or two having them add nitrogen to
the tires. On a cool day (30-ish in the AM), tire pressure (all
around) will be low. However, on a warm/normal day (80-ish in the PM),
pressures will be high -- TOO high if we'd added nitrogen on one of
those colder mornings!

[I think it's 1 psi per 10 degrees F?]

And, the Costco tire droids want to "overfill" by ~3 psi claiming
the tires are "hot" now that you've driven on them. So, instead
of 35/33 psi, they'll fill to 38/36 psi. Then, the ambient
temperature climbs 40 or 50 degrees and the tires are considerably
overinflated.

So, bleed out some nitrogen to bring them down to ~40/38 ("hot")
and hope we don't get another cold day to bring them *down*, too far.

On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 19:43:03 -0600, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Newer cars have a TPMS and warn you when the pressure gets low. Now that
cold weather is here,check to see that your tire is at least the
recommended pressure. I forgot about it and this morning it was 7
degrees. One tire was 1 pound under and set off the warning. It would
not reset after driving as it had to come up even more than driving did.
Filled it up when I got home.

Not a major deal as I knew the pressure was adequate to drive, but it
annoys me to have that yellow light on when driving. I understand this
is a common happening for the first really cold snap.

I had the same thing over New Years. The little screen with the
odometer
kept running a message to check tire pressure. The tire shaped orange
thing
on another part of the instrument panel wasn't enough warning. It was
several
weeks since I drove my Frontier. All four were a bit low.
Aluminum wheels can also cause pressure loss. I guess the aluminum
oxidizes breaking the tight seal between tire and rim. I've had it
happen a couple times on my car.


--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 20:06:49 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 1/5/2016 6:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Newer cars have a TPMS and warn you when the pressure gets low. Now that cold
weather is here,check to see that your tire is at least the recommended
pressure. I forgot about it and this morning it was 7 degrees. One tire was 1
pound under and set off the warning. It would not reset after driving as it had
to come up even more than driving did. Filled it up when I got home.

Not a major deal as I knew the pressure was adequate to drive, but it annoys me
to have that yellow light on when driving. I understand this is a common
happening for the first really cold snap.

We're back at Costco every week or two having them add nitrogen to
the tires. On a cool day (30-ish in the AM), tire pressure (all
around) will be low. However, on a warm/normal day (80-ish in the PM),
pressures will be high -- TOO high if we'd added nitrogen on one of
those colder mornings!

[I think it's 1 psi per 10 degrees F?]

And, the Costco tire droids want to "overfill" by ~3 psi claiming
the tires are "hot" now that you've driven on them. So, instead
of 35/33 psi, they'll fill to 38/36 psi. Then, the ambient
temperature climbs 40 or 50 degrees and the tires are considerably
overinflated.

So, bleed out some nitrogen to bring them down to ~40/38 ("hot")
and hope we don't get another cold day to bring them *down*, too far.
If you are getting that kind of pressure change they are NOT using
nitrogen

Nitrogen is very thermally stable pressure-wize,The calculations for
this change are based on the Ideal Gas Law. A good rule of thumb is
this: For every 10 F degree change in temperature, the pressure will
change by 1.9%. With dry nitrogen,if a tire is filled to 32 psi at a
temperature of 75 F degrees and the temperature drops 10 degrees, the
tire pressure will drop to 31.4 psi; a difference of .6 psi. If filled
at 65 degrees to 32psi, and driven untill the tire temp is 95 degrees,
the pressure will rise to 33.8psi

A 50 degree temp rise will only add 3psi - which is no problem at all.

With air which contains moisture, you will get more pressure change.,
but not a huge amount.

On 01/05/2016 06:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Not a major deal as I knew the pressure was adequate to drive, but it
annoys me to have that yellow light on when driving. I understand this
is a common happening for the first really cold snap.

The rims I have the studs mounted on don't have the sensors so the
yellow light is on all winter. I find it very easy to ignore, but if it
really bothers you try about 1/2" of electrical tape.

wrote:
On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 20:06:49 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 1/5/2016 6:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Newer cars have a TPMS and warn you when the pressure gets low. Now that cold
weather is here,check to see that your tire is at least the recommended
pressure. I forgot about it and this morning it was 7 degrees. One tire was 1
pound under and set off the warning. It would not reset after driving as it had
to come up even more than driving did. Filled it up when I got home.

Not a major deal as I knew the pressure was adequate to drive, but it annoys me
to have that yellow light on when driving. I understand this is a common
happening for the first really cold snap.

We're back at Costco every week or two having them add nitrogen to
the tires. On a cool day (30-ish in the AM), tire pressure (all
around) will be low. However, on a warm/normal day (80-ish in the PM),
pressures will be high -- TOO high if we'd added nitrogen on one of
those colder mornings!

[I think it's 1 psi per 10 degrees F?]

And, the Costco tire droids want to "overfill" by ~3 psi claiming
the tires are "hot" now that you've driven on them. So, instead
of 35/33 psi, they'll fill to 38/36 psi. Then, the ambient
temperature climbs 40 or 50 degrees and the tires are considerably
overinflated.

So, bleed out some nitrogen to bring them down to ~40/38 ("hot")
and hope we don't get another cold day to bring them *down*, too far.
If you are getting that kind of pressure change they are NOT using
nitrogen

Nitrogen is very thermally stable pressure-wize,The calculations for
this change are based on the Ideal Gas Law. A good rule of thumb is
this: For every 10 F degree change in temperature, the pressure will
change by 1.9%. With dry nitrogen,if a tire is filled to 32 psi at a
temperature of 75 F degrees and the temperature drops 10 degrees, the
tire pressure will drop to 31.4 psi; a difference of .6 psi. If filled
at 65 degrees to 32psi, and driven untill the tire temp is 95 degrees,
the pressure will rise to 33.8psi

A 50 degree temp rise will only add 3psi - which is no problem at all.

With air which contains moisture, you will get more pressure change.,
but not a huge amount.

My hunch is leakage. TPMS set without proper torque when installed can
leak air. I have TPMS on summer and winter tires on separate OEM rims. Never
have such problem. I usually over inflate by 5% or so. You'd feel the
ride is deffirent over inflating by ~10% or so.

"Frank" "frank wrote in message
...
What's more annoying is when the sensor fails and it costs over $100 to
fix it at the dealer. Happened on my wife's Subaru and even though I set
pressure on all the tires a few pounds higher, would not stop.

Another example of dumbing down America by requiring these sensors.

I am just glad the state inspection does not require them to work. I have a
2008 car with about 25,ooo on it and a 2007 truck with about 55,000 on it
and both have a bad sensor in atleast 1 tire. Probably a dead battery in
them. A tire place told me they would be about $ 60 for each tire. I am not
about to spend around $ 500 or more just for some stupid sensors if I don't
have to.

That is similar to a car I had years ago . A milage counter came on around
50,000 that was to replace a sensor that later was determined not to need
replacing at 50,000. The factory fix was to cut a wire that turned the
light on.

On 1/5/2016 8:50 PM, Frank wrote:


What's more annoying is when the sensor fails and it costs over $100 to
fix it at the dealer. Happened on my wife's Subaru and even though I
set pressure on all the tires a few pounds higher, would not stop.

Another example of dumbing down America by requiring these sensors.


There are a couple different types from what I heard. Last time I
bought tires the dealer said it they had to be replaced they were $15.

On 1/5/2016 10:06 PM, Don Y wrote:


We're back at Costco every week or two having them add nitrogen to
the tires. On a cool day (30-ish in the AM), tire pressure (all
around) will be low. However, on a warm/normal day (80-ish in the PM),
pressures will be high -- TOO high if we'd added nitrogen on one of
those colder mornings!



I use 80% nitrogen.

Adding every week or two seems like a lot of seepage. I've not had a
car yet that could not go 3 - 4 months

On Tue, 5 Jan 2016 20:43:03 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Newer cars have a TPMS and warn you when the pressure gets low. Now that
cold weather is here,check to see that your tire is at least the
recommended pressure. I forgot about it and this morning it was 7
degrees. One tire was 1 pound under and set off the warning. It would
not reset after driving as it had to come up even more than driving did.
Filled it up when I got home.

Not a major deal as I knew the pressure was adequate to drive, but it
annoys me to have that yellow light on when driving.

I guess a car that can give you everything you want can annoy you
about anything you've got.

I understand this
is a common happening for the first really cold snap.

And somehow it does better after the first one? How is that?

On 1/5/2016 9:18 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 20:06:49 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 1/5/2016 6:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Newer cars have a TPMS and warn you when the pressure gets low. Now that cold
weather is here,check to see that your tire is at least the recommended
pressure. I forgot about it and this morning it was 7 degrees. One tire was 1
pound under and set off the warning. It would not reset after driving as it had
to come up even more than driving did. Filled it up when I got home.

Not a major deal as I knew the pressure was adequate to drive, but it annoys me
to have that yellow light on when driving. I understand this is a common
happening for the first really cold snap.

We're back at Costco every week or two having them add nitrogen to
the tires. On a cool day (30-ish in the AM), tire pressure (all
around) will be low. However, on a warm/normal day (80-ish in the PM),
pressures will be high -- TOO high if we'd added nitrogen on one of
those colder mornings!

[I think it's 1 psi per 10 degrees F?]

And, the Costco tire droids want to "overfill" by ~3 psi claiming
the tires are "hot" now that you've driven on them. So, instead
of 35/33 psi, they'll fill to 38/36 psi. Then, the ambient
temperature climbs 40 or 50 degrees and the tires are considerably
overinflated.

So, bleed out some nitrogen to bring them down to ~40/38 ("hot")
and hope we don't get another cold day to bring them *down*, too far.
If you are getting that kind of pressure change they are NOT using
nitrogen

Nitrogen is very thermally stable pressure-wize,The calculations for
this change are based on the Ideal Gas Law. A good rule of thumb is
this: For every 10 F degree change in temperature, the pressure will
change by 1.9%. With dry nitrogen,if a tire is filled to 32 psi at a
temperature of 75 F degrees and the temperature drops 10 degrees, the
tire pressure will drop to 31.4 psi; a difference of .6 psi. If filled
at 65 degrees to 32psi, and driven untill the tire temp is 95 degrees,
the pressure will rise to 33.8psi

A 50 degree temp rise will only add 3psi - which is no problem at all.

It's 30 degrees. Tire monkey inflates tires to 38/36 psi (instead of 35/33).

*Ambient* changes by 50 degrees -- to 80F (the next afternoon). By *your*
numbers, expect a 10% change in tire pressures: 41.8/39.6

The problem is the naive "+3" that the tire monkey uses to bias the
"hot" temperature of the tire. He's factoring in a ~10% increase even
though the tires *probably* haven't risen 50 degrees in the 2 miles from
our home to the store over *cold* asphalt.

E.g., car claims it is 67F in the garage, now. It's been sitting there for
at least 6 hours. TPMS claims 38/36 as current pressures.

Tomorrow AM we'll expect 50 for a low -- with a high of 60. Saturday morning,
we'll touch freezing (we've already been down to 21). Last month, we were
seeing 80. Temperatures around town vary by ~10F (currently, 48-56F).
When we purchased the car, it was 110F. So, sitting in the garage these
past four months, the car experiences an 90F swing in temperatures -- before
rolling friction is taken into account.

Pick an inflation pressure. Then, expect to change it pretty regularly
(or live with under/overinflated tires in SOME set of conditions).

With air which contains moisture, you will get more pressure change.,
but not a huge amount.

On 1/5/2016 9:32 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 20:06:49 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 1/5/2016 6:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Newer cars have a TPMS and warn you when the pressure gets low. Now that cold
weather is here,check to see that your tire is at least the recommended
pressure. I forgot about it and this morning it was 7 degrees. One tire was 1
pound under and set off the warning. It would not reset after driving as it
had
to come up even more than driving did. Filled it up when I got home.

Not a major deal as I knew the pressure was adequate to drive, but it
annoys me
to have that yellow light on when driving. I understand this is a common
happening for the first really cold snap.

We're back at Costco every week or two having them add nitrogen to
the tires. On a cool day (30-ish in the AM), tire pressure (all
around) will be low. However, on a warm/normal day (80-ish in the PM),
pressures will be high -- TOO high if we'd added nitrogen on one of
those colder mornings!

[I think it's 1 psi per 10 degrees F?]

And, the Costco tire droids want to "overfill" by ~3 psi claiming
the tires are "hot" now that you've driven on them. So, instead
of 35/33 psi, they'll fill to 38/36 psi. Then, the ambient
temperature climbs 40 or 50 degrees and the tires are considerably
overinflated.

So, bleed out some nitrogen to bring them down to ~40/38 ("hot")
and hope we don't get another cold day to bring them *down*, too far.
If you are getting that kind of pressure change they are NOT using
nitrogen

Nitrogen is very thermally stable pressure-wize,The calculations for
this change are based on the Ideal Gas Law. A good rule of thumb is
this: For every 10 F degree change in temperature, the pressure will
change by 1.9%. With dry nitrogen,if a tire is filled to 32 psi at a
temperature of 75 F degrees and the temperature drops 10 degrees, the
tire pressure will drop to 31.4 psi; a difference of .6 psi. If filled
at 65 degrees to 32psi, and driven untill the tire temp is 95 degrees,
the pressure will rise to 33.8psi

A 50 degree temp rise will only add 3psi - which is no problem at all.

With air which contains moisture, you will get more pressure change.,
but not a huge amount.

My hunch is leakage. TPMS set without proper torque when installed can leak
air. I have TPMS on summer and winter tires on separate OEM rims. Never
have such problem. I usually over inflate by 5% or so. You'd feel the
ride is deffirent over inflating by ~10% or so.

A *leak* would show LOW pressures, not *high*! I am continually bleeding
pressure from the tires as the "few" cold mornings are the exceptions
yet the tire monkeys plan on them as the *norm*.

wrote:
On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 20:06:49 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 1/5/2016 6:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Newer cars have a TPMS and warn you when the pressure gets low. Now that cold
weather is here,check to see that your tire is at least the recommended
pressure. I forgot about it and this morning it was 7 degrees. One tire was 1
pound under and set off the warning. It would not reset after driving as it had
to come up even more than driving did. Filled it up when I got home.

Not a major deal as I knew the pressure was adequate to drive, but it annoys me
to have that yellow light on when driving. I understand this is a common
happening for the first really cold snap.

We're back at Costco every week or two having them add nitrogen to
the tires. On a cool day (30-ish in the AM), tire pressure (all
around) will be low. However, on a warm/normal day (80-ish in the PM),
pressures will be high -- TOO high if we'd added nitrogen on one of
those colder mornings!

[I think it's 1 psi per 10 degrees F?]

And, the Costco tire droids want to "overfill" by ~3 psi claiming
the tires are "hot" now that you've driven on them. So, instead
of 35/33 psi, they'll fill to 38/36 psi. Then, the ambient
temperature climbs 40 or 50 degrees and the tires are considerably
overinflated.

So, bleed out some nitrogen to bring them down to ~40/38 ("hot")
and hope we don't get another cold day to bring them *down*, too far.
If you are getting that kind of pressure change they are NOT using
nitrogen

Nitrogen is very thermally stable pressure-wize,The calculations for
this change are based on the Ideal Gas Law. A good rule of thumb is
this: For every 10 F degree change in temperature, the pressure will
change by 1.9%. With dry nitrogen,if a tire is filled to 32 psi at a
temperature of 75 F degrees and the temperature drops 10 degrees, the
tire pressure will drop to 31.4 psi; a difference of .6 psi. If filled
at 65 degrees to 32psi, and driven untill the tire temp is 95 degrees,
the pressure will rise to 33.8psi

A 50 degree temp rise will only add 3psi - which is no problem at all.

With air which contains moisture, you will get more pressure change.,
but not a huge amount.

Nitrogen or not, I suspect air leak. I have two sets of tires on rims
for summer and winter. They have TPMS. Never have such problem here.

On 1/5/2016 11:59 PM, Micky wrote:

I guess a car that can give you everything you want can annoy you
about anything you've got.

Heated steering wheel and remote start makes up for some of it though.



I understand this
is a common happening for the first really cold snap.

And somehow it does better after the first one? How is that?


You add some air and it does not happen again.

On 1/5/2016 9:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/5/2016 10:06 PM, Don Y wrote:


We're back at Costco every week or two having them add nitrogen to
the tires. On a cool day (30-ish in the AM), tire pressure (all
around) will be low. However, on a warm/normal day (80-ish in the PM),
pressures will be high -- TOO high if we'd added nitrogen on one of
those colder mornings!

I use 80% nitrogen.

Adding every week or two seems like a lot of seepage. I've not had a car yet
that could not go 3 - 4 months

We *add* because I *bleed* off the excess pressure. Ambient has changed
~60F in the past 4 weeks.

As I stated elsewhere, TPMS claims tires are presently at 38/36 at 67F,
sitting in the garage for 6 hours (51F outside). In a few days, we'll be
at freezing when SWMBO heads off for an early morning class. A few
of weeks ago, 80 degrees in the afternoon. Two weeks ago, 21-24 at night.
In another couple of weeks, 80 will be the norm, again. Then, +10F every
month until we're at 110.

When the pressures are "in your face" (on the dash), you're less likely
to ignore those low *or* high pressures (than you would, otherwise, if
you had to manually check pressures!).

So, you pick a temperature and a pressure and *hope* the weather
stays reasonably constant. As all *I* can do is bleed pressure from
the tires, I have to rely on Costco to put it back in when the
temperatures fall (again).

On Tue, 5 Jan 2016 23:52:03 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/5/2016 10:06 PM, Don Y wrote:


We're back at Costco every week or two having them add nitrogen to
the tires. On a cool day (30-ish in the AM), tire pressure (all
around) will be low. However, on a warm/normal day (80-ish in the PM),
pressures will be high -- TOO high if we'd added nitrogen on one of
those colder mornings!



I use 80% nitrogen.

Adding every week or two seems like a lot of seepage. I've not had a
car yet that could not go 3 - 4 months

Yeah I use that 80% stuff too and I have a machine in my garage that
seems to make it virtually for free
I seldom have to add air unless I have a (problem) leak.
One thing about my wife's Lincoln is that sensor does not turn off
right away, you have to drive a little ways. Trust your gauge.

On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 21:24:28 -0700, rbowman wrote:

On 01/05/2016 06:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Not a major deal as I knew the pressure was adequate to drive, but it
annoys me to have that yellow light on when driving. I understand this
is a common happening for the first really cold snap.

The rims I have the studs mounted on don't have the sensors so the
yellow light is on all winter. I find it very easy to ignore, but if it
really bothers you try about 1/2" of electrical tape.

I dont know where those sensors are located or how they connect from a
rotating tire to a wire???? I never had a car with them, and hope not to
ever have one. Just sounds like more worthless **** to cause problems.

However, I'd guess that wherever they connect to a wire, you can
probably just ground the wire to turn off the light.

On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 03:49:41 -0600, wrote:



I dont know where those sensors are located or how they connect from a
rotating tire to a wire???? I never had a car with them, and hope not to
ever have one. Just sounds like more worthless **** to cause problems.


They can be quite handy to have. Tires, especially low profile don't
always tell you the actual pressure from appearance and I don't know
anyone that checks with a gauge every day. I had one go off on my
last car so I added some air. Next day, the tire did not look low,
but it was. The light tipped my off. Rather than put in more air I
went to the tire guy and he pulled out a big nail.

Part of the problem is a lot those TPMS were
calibrated to come on just below the max cold
pressure on the OEM TIRES, not below what
was on the B-pillar auto mfg sticker, which is where
I keep my tires about 2lbs psi above.


Of course, in this enlightened age second decade
of the new millennium, you'd think both mfgs and
mechanics would know better, but no. Now I have
ASE Certified technicians telling me, on newsgroups
like this, and in person, to go by the cold inflation
pressure on the basketba- I mean - TIRES. That
the B-pillar door sticker pressures are "too low".
Who knows more about how a specific model car
will be driven - the tire co. or the car co.?!


Needless to say I never let any tech or mechanic
TOUCH my tire pressures, or my wife's except when
having new tires put on.

On Wednesday, January 6, 2016 at 7:57:34 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Part of the problem is a lot those TPMS were
calibrated to come on just below the max cold
pressure on the OEM TIRES, not below what
was on the B-pillar auto mfg sticker, which is where
I keep my tires about 2lbs psi above.

This part of your sentence doesn't make sense:

"not below what was on the B-pillar auto mfg sticker,
which is where I keep my tires about 2lbs psi above."

There's a serious grammatical issue there.

You keeps your tires 2 lbs above *what*? The PSI
on the tire? The PSI on the pillar? Is the PSI on
the pillar 2 lbs above the PSI on the tire? Something
else?

What exactly are you saying?




Of course, in this enlightened age second decade
of the new millennium, you'd think both mfgs and
mechanics would know better, but no. Now I have
ASE Certified technicians telling me, on newsgroups
like this, and in person, to go by the cold inflation
pressure on the basketba- I mean - TIRES. That
the B-pillar door sticker pressures are "too low".
Who knows more about how a specific model car
will be driven - the tire co. or the car co.?!


Needless to say I never let any tech or mechanic
TOUCH my tire pressures, or my wife's except when
having new tires put on.

On 1/5/2016 7:50 PM, Frank wrote:

Another example of dumbing down America by requiring these sensors.

It all started when we switched from candles to oil lanterns. Then to
gaslight. Then electricity. It was bad enough that the city folk used
it, then FDR decided to inflict it on the rest of America, too.

Don't get me started on modern medicine. My great grandparents died of
TB. They didn't need no rescuing with those newfangled antiobiotics.

On 1/5/2016 10:06 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/5/2016 6:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Newer cars have a TPMS and warn you when the pressure gets low. Now
that cold
weather is here,check to see that your tire is at least the recommended
pressure. I forgot about it and this morning it was 7 degrees. One
tire was 1
pound under and set off the warning. It would not reset after driving
as it had
to come up even more than driving did. Filled it up when I got home.

Not a major deal as I knew the pressure was adequate to drive, but it
annoys me
to have that yellow light on when driving. I understand this is a common
happening for the first really cold snap.

We're back at Costco every week or two having them add nitrogen to
the tires. On a cool day (30-ish in the AM), tire pressure (all
around) will be low. However, on a warm/normal day (80-ish in the PM),
pressures will be high -- TOO high if we'd added nitrogen on one of
those colder mornings!

[I think it's 1 psi per 10 degrees F?]

And, the Costco tire droids want to "overfill" by ~3 psi claiming
the tires are "hot" now that you've driven on them. So, instead
of 35/33 psi, they'll fill to 38/36 psi. Then, the ambient
temperature climbs 40 or 50 degrees and the tires are considerably
overinflated.

So, bleed out some nitrogen to bring them down to ~40/38 ("hot")
and hope we don't get another cold day to bring them *down*, too far.

From the perfect gas law, pressure varies with temperatu PV=nRT

Temperature is measured in degrees Kelvin so you can calculate potential
pressure drops or increases by the ratio of temperatures:

PV/T=P'V'/T'

The constants drop out and if you assume no volume change:

P/T=P'/T'

On 1/6/2016 7:57 AM, wrote:
Part of the problem is a lot those TPMS were
calibrated to come on just below the max cold
pressure on the OEM TIRES, not below what
was on the B-pillar auto mfg sticker, which is where
I keep my tires about 2lbs psi above.


Of course, in this enlightened age second decade
of the new millennium, you'd think both mfgs and
mechanics would know better, but no. Now I have
ASE Certified technicians telling me, on newsgroups
like this, and in person, to go by the cold inflation
pressure on the basketba- I mean - TIRES. That
the B-pillar door sticker pressures are "too low".
Who knows more about how a specific model car
will be driven - the tire co. or the car co.?!


Needless to say I never let any tech or mechanic
TOUCH my tire pressures, or my wife's except when
having new tires put on.


Reminds me, years ago, took my new car on a 1,000 mile trip and checked
tires a while later. They were set 10 lb above recommendation.
I questioned dealer about that and was told that they were set high at
factory for long ship ride and keeping in lots until sold to assure
pressure would not need to be increased. That was before TPMS.

On 1/5/16 10:06 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/5/2016 6:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Newer cars have a TPMS and warn you when the pressure gets low. Now
that cold
weather is here,check to see that your tire is at least the recommended
pressure. I forgot about it and this morning it was 7 degrees. One
tire was 1
pound under and set off the warning. It would not reset after driving
as it had
to come up even more than driving did. Filled it up when I got home.

Not a major deal as I knew the pressure was adequate to drive, but it
annoys me
to have that yellow light on when driving. I understand this is a common
happening for the first really cold snap.

We're back at Costco every week or two having them add nitrogen to
the tires. On a cool day (30-ish in the AM), tire pressure (all
around) will be low. However, on a warm/normal day (80-ish in the PM),
pressures will be high -- TOO high if we'd added nitrogen on one of
those colder mornings!

[I think it's 1 psi per 10 degrees F?]

And, the Costco tire droids want to "overfill" by ~3 psi claiming
the tires are "hot" now that you've driven on them. So, instead
of 35/33 psi, they'll fill to 38/36 psi. Then, the ambient
temperature climbs 40 or 50 degrees and the tires are considerably
overinflated.

So, bleed out some nitrogen to bring them down to ~40/38 ("hot")
and hope we don't get another cold day to bring them *down*, too far.

Filling tires with nitrogen rather than old plain air (78% nitrogen
anyway) is one of those things that sounds good on paper and which tire
buffs rave about-- but which has little impact in the real world.

Plus I suspect it costs you more in gas to drive over to Costco than you
actually save. You also have to let some lead-foot 85 IQ tire installer
jerk drive your car while you sit around on a ripped vinyl chair in an
uncomfortable waiting room-- or worse, roam around the store and pick up
a shrink wrapped pack of 96 rolls of toilet paper or a 5 pound box of
corn flakes...

--
With all this €œgun control€� talk, I havent heard one politician say how
they plan to take guns away from criminals and terrorists€” just from law
abiding citizens€¦

DerbyDad03 wrote: "You keeps your tires 2 lbs above *what*? The PSI
on the tire? The PSI on the pillar? Is the PSI on
the pillar 2 lbs above the PSI on the tire? Something "


Obviously the PSI on the b-pillar. What the car
builder recommends. In my case, my tires
have "cold pressure max 44psi" stamped on
them. My car's door pillar says 30psi cold.
I keep them between 32-34psi.

is that better?

On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 07:54:34 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote
in

On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 03:49:41 -0600, wrote:



I dont know where those sensors are located or how they connect from a
rotating tire to a wire???? I never had a car with them, and hope not to
ever have one. Just sounds like more worthless **** to cause problems.


They can be quite handy to have. Tires, especially low profile don't
always tell you the actual pressure from appearance and I don't know
anyone that checks with a gauge every day. I had one go off on my
last car so I added some air. Next day, the tire did not look low,
but it was. The light tipped my off.

Yeah, that's something else I noticed about the low-profile tires. I
really don't like them at all. Any opinions as to why manufactures
switched to them? I'm guessing they are cheaper.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

CRNG wrote: "Yeah, that's something else I noticed about the low-profile tires. I
really don't like them at all. Any opinions as to why manufactures
switched to them? I'm guessing they are cheaper. "


#1. Looks

#2. Some handling advantages. Mainly better 0-60
starts.

A disadvantage of lower/wider tires is that they
require more aggressive alignment settings than
do narrower higher profiles to keep them going
in a straight line. Narrow tall tires concentrate
more weight in a straight-ahead, which naturally
straightens them out from a turn with less Caster
angle, for example. They also eat through snow
and ice more readily than those fat, tall wagon
wheels I see nowadays.

On 01/06/2016 02:49 AM, wrote:
I dont know where those sensors are located or how they connect from a
rotating tire to a wire???? I never had a car with them, and hope not to
ever have one. Just sounds like more worthless **** to cause problems.


Unless you're driving a rather elderly vehicle, it has more computer
systems than the moon launch. Ever hear the term 'wireless'?

However, I'd guess that wherever they connect to a wire, you can
probably just ground the wire to turn off the light.

At least for my car if you can find the module the proper value resistor
can be used as a jumper.

On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 03:49:41 -0600, wrote:

On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 21:24:28 -0700, rbowman wrote:

On 01/05/2016 06:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Not a major deal as I knew the pressure was adequate to drive, but it
annoys me to have that yellow light on when driving. I understand this
is a common happening for the first really cold snap.

The rims I have the studs mounted on don't have the sensors so the
yellow light is on all winter. I find it very easy to ignore, but if it
really bothers you try about 1/2" of electrical tape.

I dont know where those sensors are located or how they connect from a
rotating tire to a wire???? I never had a car with them, and hope not to
ever have one. Just sounds like more worthless **** to cause problems.

However, I'd guess that wherever they connect to a wire, you can
probably just ground the wire to turn off the light.

It is usually inside the wheel and RF connected to a module in the
car.

On 1/6/2016 7:18 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 1/5/16 10:06 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/5/2016 6:43 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Newer cars have a TPMS and warn you when the pressure gets low. Now
that cold
weather is here,check to see that your tire is at least the recommended
pressure. I forgot about it and this morning it was 7 degrees. One
tire was 1
pound under and set off the warning. It would not reset after driving
as it had
to come up even more than driving did. Filled it up when I got home.

Not a major deal as I knew the pressure was adequate to drive, but it
annoys me
to have that yellow light on when driving. I understand this is a common
happening for the first really cold snap.

We're back at Costco every week or two having them add nitrogen to
the tires. On a cool day (30-ish in the AM), tire pressure (all
around) will be low. However, on a warm/normal day (80-ish in the PM),
pressures will be high -- TOO high if we'd added nitrogen on one of
those colder mornings!

[I think it's 1 psi per 10 degrees F?]

And, the Costco tire droids want to "overfill" by ~3 psi claiming
the tires are "hot" now that you've driven on them. So, instead
of 35/33 psi, they'll fill to 38/36 psi. Then, the ambient
temperature climbs 40 or 50 degrees and the tires are considerably
overinflated.

So, bleed out some nitrogen to bring them down to ~40/38 ("hot")
and hope we don't get another cold day to bring them *down*, too far.

Filling tires with nitrogen rather than old plain air (78% nitrogen anyway) is
one of those things that sounds good on paper and which tire buffs rave about--
but which has little impact in the real world.

Plus I suspect it costs you more in gas to drive over to Costco than you
actually save. You also have to let some lead-foot 85 IQ tire installer jerk
drive your car while you sit around on a ripped vinyl chair in an uncomfortable
waiting room-- or worse, roam around the store and pick up a shrink wrapped
pack of 96 rolls of toilet paper or a 5 pound box of corn flakes...

We can drive the 2 miles to Costco to have *them* put 95% N2 in the tires.

Or, we can drive the 2 miles to the Albertson's ACROSS THE STREET from Costco
and drop quarters into the *air* dispenser and fill the tires ourselves.

Or, we can buy a small compressor and find a place to store it for the
few times it's needed.

Given that we shop *at* Costco every week, there's no cost to having them
do this -- other than waiting 60-120 seconds for the tire monkey to drop
what he's doing and walk over to the car (WHILE WE SIT IN IT) to do this
for us.

[BTW, there are only 30 rolls of paper in the packages and neither of us
eats Corn Flakes]

Have you actually ever *been* to a Costco? Or, are the ones in your part
of the world NOT as friendly as ours?

On 1/6/2016 5:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 03:49:41 -0600, wrote:

I dont know where those sensors are located or how they connect from a
rotating tire to a wire???? I never had a car with them, and hope not to
ever have one. Just sounds like more worthless **** to cause problems.

They can be quite handy to have. Tires, especially low profile don't
always tell you the actual pressure from appearance and I don't know
anyone that checks with a gauge every day. I had one go off on my
last car so I added some air. Next day, the tire did not look low,
but it was. The light tipped my off. Rather than put in more air I
went to the tire guy and he pulled out a big nail.

+1

Out of the showroom, one tire showed a very slow "loss in pressure".
Could have been a defective transducer. But, more likely a rim leak, etc.

Brought car in to dealer ("Hey, YOUR TPMS is telling us the tire is losing
pressure; it's not my mishandling of a tire gauge!"). Initial test
showed the tire as good. Our insistence caused them to look at it longer.
Lady tech was tickled when she found it. Replaced the tire. No problems
in the months since then.

wrote in message
...
I dont know where those sensors are located or how they connect from a
rotating tire to a wire???? I never had a car with them, and hope not to
ever have one. Just sounds like more worthless **** to cause problems.

However, I'd guess that wherever they connect to a wire, you can
probably just ground the wire to turn off the light.


The sensors are usually made in to the valve stem. Just a much larger
buldge inside the tire with its own battery. After a number of years the
battery runs out and you have to replace the module at about $ 60 each or
more. They work by sending a radio signal back to the car. Around 315 MHz
I think.

Not sure when they were required ,but if you get a car that was sold new in
the US in about the last 10 years it will have it.

My 2007 and 2008 both have the light on as each has one that is bad. As the
state does not require them towork for the safety inspection, I am not going
to replace them. That would be around $ 500 when all 8 go out. Which will
probalby be before I get rid of them as they only have 25 and 55 thousand on
them.

On Wednesday, January 6, 2016 at 9:25:47 AM UTC-5, wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote: "You keeps your tires 2 lbs above *what*? The PSI
on the tire? The PSI on the pillar? Is the PSI on
the pillar 2 lbs above the PSI on the tire? Something "


Obviously the PSI on the b-pillar. What the car
builder recommends. In my case, my tires
have "cold pressure max 44psi" stamped on
them. My car's door pillar says 30psi cold.
I keep them between 32-34psi.

is that better?

Yes, it's much better than as originally written.
Thank you. It does, however, raise another question.

You (rhetorically) asked:

"Who knows more about how a specific model car
will be driven - the tire co. or the car co.?!"

I assume the (non-rhetorical) answer is "the car co.?!"

So, why do you increase the pressure to 2 lbs above
"the car co.?!" recommendation? In other words, how do
*your* driving habits differ from how "the car co.?!"
thinks that "specific model car" will be driven, such
that you feel the need for 2 lb increase?

On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 09:16:18 -0700, Don Y
wrote in

We can drive the 2 miles to Costco to have *them* put 95% N2 in the tires.

They do that for free?
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On 1/6/2016 11:41 AM, CRNG wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 09:16:18 -0700, Don Y
wrote in

We can drive the 2 miles to Costco to have *them* put 95% N2 in the tires.

They do that for free?

Yes. A "membership benefit".

If you purchase tires from them, they will also rotate and fix
flats for free (though there are other "tire stores" who will
do likewise).

On Wednesday, January 6, 2016 at 11:14:44 AM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
wrote in message
...
I dont know where those sensors are located or how they connect from a
rotating tire to a wire???? I never had a car with them, and hope not to
ever have one. Just sounds like more worthless **** to cause problems.

However, I'd guess that wherever they connect to a wire, you can
probably just ground the wire to turn off the light.


The sensors are usually made in to the valve stem. Just a much larger
buldge inside the tire with its own battery. After a number of years the
battery runs out and you have to replace the module at about $ 60 each or
more. They work by sending a radio signal back to the car. Around 315 MHz
I think.

Not sure when they were required ,but if you get a car that was sold new in
the US in about the last 10 years it will have it.

....snip...

"About" may be the operative word in your statement. However, it's
not only a year issue, but also a make, model and trim level issue.

My 06 and 07 Honda's do not have TPMS.

I have an 06 Odyssey EX-L. The 06 Odyssey only had TPMS on the
highest trim level, the Touring. In fact, that trim came with a
special Michelin PAX run-flat tire, the only choice of tire and
wheel that you could get. So many people hated them (or actually
hated the cost to replace them once worn) that there are threads
in Honda forums explaining the procedure to "De-PAX" the Odyssey
by using Acura wheels and TPMS sensors.

As far as my (daughter's) 07 Civic, TPMS wasn't available
on any Civic trim level in 2007.

It looks like 2008 was when Honda began using TPMS on all trim
levels for the Civic and Odyssey.

On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 11:49:30 -0700, Don Y
wrote in

On 1/6/2016 11:41 AM, CRNG wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 09:16:18 -0700, Don Y
wrote in

We can drive the 2 miles to Costco to have *them* put 95% N2 in the tires.

They do that for free?

Yes. A "membership benefit".

If you purchase tires from them, they will also rotate and fix
flats for free (though there are other "tire stores" who will
do likewise).

I wonder if SAMs does that? We have a SAMs nearby, but the nearest
CostCo is about 40 miles away.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On 1/6/2016 12:33 PM, CRNG wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 11:49:30 -0700, Don Y
wrote in

On 1/6/2016 11:41 AM, CRNG wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 09:16:18 -0700, Don Y
wrote in

We can drive the 2 miles to Costco to have *them* put 95% N2 in the tires.

They do that for free?

Yes. A "membership benefit".

If you purchase tires from them, they will also rotate and fix
flats for free (though there are other "tire stores" who will
do likewise).

I wonder if SAMs does that? We have a SAMs nearby, but the nearest
CostCo is about 40 miles away.

No idea. We gave up our Sam's membership many years ago. I htink
there is *one* in town and it's a 30 minute drive. OTOH, there
are two Costco's, here, and one is ~2 miles from the house (I've
walked there in the past when I was headed to the Post Office)

We are saddened by their push to put the Kirkland label on
everything. You'd think they would see how well that worked
for Penney's, Sears, etc.

Also, their push to up-sell is becoming far too obvious.

DerbysDad wrote: "I assume the (non-rhetorical) answer is "the car co.?!"

Yes.

"So, why do you increase the pressure to 2 lbs above
"the car co.?!" recommendation? In other words, how do
*your* driving habits differ from how "the car co.?!"
thinks that "specific model car" will be driven, such
that you feel the need for 2 lb increase? "

In a lot of cases car mfgs specify pressures
tuned more for ride than for handling, etc
In my personal experience I've noticed
that exactly at those specs, more shoulder
wear. So I pump a few extra PSI into them
and hit that sweet spot.

Still others recommend the "chalk" test, where
you make chalk lines across the treads, drive,
and adjust the pressure until the chalk line
wears most evenly. Check the pressures at
that point, and write them down as ideal for
your machine.