I have a farm tractor with a positive ground. I hooked a 15A battery
charger to it, and had massive sparks shooting all over the place. Yes,
I did connect the polarity correctly, with the red clip on the batt +
post and black one in the batt - post.

Because of this, I removed one of the battery cables (to the
tractor)[the negative one], and reconnected the charger. The sparks were
so intense, they melted a small hole at the top of the battery post.

In all the years I have charged auto batteries, I have never had this
happen. Even touching the clips together on the charger dont cause such
intense sparks. What the heck could cause this?
My first thought is a shorted battery, but the tractor lights work fine.
There just is not enough charge to turn the starter over fast enough to
start the engine. I would think that if the battery was 'dead shorted'
it would not operate the lights, or make the starter turn slowly.

To insure the charger is not defective, I connected it to another
battery and it's charging properly, on both the 2A and the 15A settings.

Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

On 12/22/2015 6:08 PM, wrote:
I have a farm tractor with a positive ground. I hooked a 15A battery
charger to it, and had massive sparks shooting all over the place. Yes,
I did connect the polarity correctly, with the red clip on the batt +
post and black one in the batt - post.

Because of this, I removed one of the battery cables (to the
tractor)[the negative one], and reconnected the charger. The sparks were
so intense, they melted a small hole at the top of the battery post.

In all the years I have charged auto batteries, I have never had this
happen. Even touching the clips together on the charger dont cause such
intense sparks. What the heck could cause this?
My first thought is a shorted battery, but the tractor lights work fine.
There just is not enough charge to turn the starter over fast enough to
start the engine. I would think that if the battery was 'dead shorted'
it would not operate the lights, or make the starter turn slowly.

To insure the charger is not defective, I connected it to another
battery and it's charging properly, on both the 2A and the 15A settings.

Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

Did you actually measure the battery voltage??
If you have a GENERATOR instead of an ALTERNATOR, it's possible for
the thing to get polarized backwards and charge your battery backwards.

wrote:
I have a farm tractor with a positive ground. I hooked a 15A battery
charger to it, and had massive sparks shooting all over the place. Yes,
I did connect the polarity correctly, with the red clip on the batt +
post and black one in the batt - post.

Because of this, I removed one of the battery cables (to the
tractor)[the negative one], and reconnected the charger. The sparks were
so intense, they melted a small hole at the top of the battery post.

In all the years I have charged auto batteries, I have never had this
happen. Even touching the clips together on the charger dont cause such
intense sparks. What the heck could cause this?
My first thought is a shorted battery, but the tractor lights work fine.
There just is not enough charge to turn the starter over fast enough to
start the engine. I would think that if the battery was 'dead shorted'
it would not operate the lights, or make the starter turn slowly.

To insure the charger is not defective, I connected it to another
battery and it's charging properly, on both the 2A and the 15A settings.

Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

Maybe your battery has internal short?

On 12/22/2015 07:08 PM, wrote:
Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

This is a long shot. Do you have a meter to verify the positive terminal
is in fact positive? It's rare but it is possible to reverse the
polarity on a discharged battery by connecting it backwards.

It's the farm tractor part that makes me suspicious:

http://fergusontractors.org/fena/wp-...-Generator.pdf

Like I said, it's a long shot that the entire system might have been
reversed.

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 19:42:20 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Maybe your battery has internal short?

That would do it.

On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 at 9:10:25 PM UTC-6, M. Stradbury wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 19:42:20 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Maybe your battery has internal short?

That would do it.

The sparks he is describing could not be produced by his 15 Amp charger! The arcing is from the battery somehow...Mike may be correct.

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 20:01:09 -0800 (PST), bob_villain
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 at 9:10:25 PM UTC-6, M. Stradbury wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 19:42:20 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Maybe your battery has internal short?

That would do it.

The sparks he is describing could not be produced by his 15 Amp charger! The arcing is from the battery somehow...Mike may be correct.
Or the battery has been charged backwards by a reverse polarized
generator. Sure sounds like the charger is connected backwards to the
battery

mike wrote:
On 12/22/2015 6:08 PM, wrote:
I have a farm tractor with a positive ground. I hooked a 15A battery
charger to it, and had massive sparks shooting all over the place. Yes,
I did connect the polarity correctly, with the red clip on the batt +
post and black one in the batt - post.

Because of this, I removed one of the battery cables (to the
tractor)[the negative one], and reconnected the charger. The sparks were
so intense, they melted a small hole at the top of the battery post.

In all the years I have charged auto batteries, I have never had this
happen. Even touching the clips together on the charger dont cause such
intense sparks. What the heck could cause this?
My first thought is a shorted battery, but the tractor lights work fine.
There just is not enough charge to turn the starter over fast enough to
start the engine. I would think that if the battery was 'dead shorted'
it would not operate the lights, or make the starter turn slowly.

To insure the charger is not defective, I connected it to another
battery and it's charging properly, on both the 2A and the 15A settings.

Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

Did you actually measure the battery voltage??
If you have a GENERATOR instead of an ALTERNATOR, it's possible for
the thing to get polarized backwards and charge your battery backwards.

Did OP put in a new generator then?

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 19:48:09 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 12/22/2015 07:08 PM, wrote:
Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

This is a long shot. Do you have a meter to verify the positive terminal
is in fact positive? It's rare but it is possible to reverse the
polarity on a discharged battery by connecting it backwards.

Don't you mean to say that it's possible to change the polarity of a
generator (not an alternator) by connecting the battery backwards,
even for a short time?

At any rate, you're right about the meter. He should measure the
voltage of the battery without the charger, with the charger, without
the charger when cranking the starter motor.

If low charge, or a bad battery, is really the problem, the voltage
will drop too much when cranking the starter.

(With a car, I don't need a meter and don't need to get out of the
driver's seat by trying to blow the horn while cranking the engine. I
do this test when the car won't crank. If it doesn't blow well, it's
the battery. It if blows well, the starter isn't even engaging
electrically, so its the starter circuit or the sstarter.)

It's the farm tractor part that makes me suspicious:

http://fergusontractors.org/fena/wp-...-Generator.pdf

Yeah, a gnerator. Not a battery.

Like I said, it's a long shot that the entire system might have been
reversed.

That only works if the battery is reversed, connected backwards. Maybe
it is and the OP is going by the post positions, which are reversed,
so he should look at the embossed + and - next to the battery posts.
Those are always accurate.

On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 03:10:17 -0000 (UTC), "M. Stradbury"
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 19:42:20 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Maybe your battery has internal short?

That would do it.

I don't think so. It could lower a 12v battery to 10 volts or less,
but a 12 volt charger woldn't spark that much tryhing to charge a
battery that was putting back 8 or 10 volts.

Anyhow, he should get a meter and measure the voltages.

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 18:41:24 -0800, mike wrote:

On 12/22/2015 6:08 PM, wrote:
I have a farm tractor with a positive ground. I hooked a 15A battery
charger to it, and had massive sparks shooting all over the place. Yes,
I did connect the polarity correctly, with the red clip on the batt +
post and black one in the batt - post.

Because of this, I removed one of the battery cables (to the
tractor)[the negative one], and reconnected the charger. The sparks were
so intense, they melted a small hole at the top of the battery post.

In all the years I have charged auto batteries, I have never had this
happen. Even touching the clips together on the charger dont cause such
intense sparks. What the heck could cause this?
My first thought is a shorted battery, but the tractor lights work fine.
There just is not enough charge to turn the starter over fast enough to
start the engine. I would think that if the battery was 'dead shorted'
it would not operate the lights, or make the starter turn slowly.

To insure the charger is not defective, I connected it to another
battery and it's charging properly, on both the 2A and the 15A settings.

Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

Did you actually measure the battery voltage??
If you have a GENERATOR instead of an ALTERNATOR, it's possible for
the thing to get polarized backwards and charge your battery backwards.

Yes, I think you're right. I took my VOM meter and hooked it up, the
battery *IS* backwards. The terminal marked + is now NEGATIVE, and the
one marked - is now POSITIVE. I triple checked the meter leads, and the
battery markings. It definitely is backwards, and reads about 11.5
volts.

Yes, it DOES have a generator.

I knew there was some sort of polarity issues with generators.
I did NOT know a battery could reverse polarity. In fact I cant see how
that could occur without destroying the battery, burning up wiring, or
damaging something else.

I suppose this could have occurred when I had the battery disconnected
for awhile, while I was replacing all the bad wiring to the lights.

This tractor might have an alternator by the time I finish this repair.
I only had one vehicle (my first car) with a generator, and I remember
having a big hassle with the generator system in that car, and finally
having to get a mechanic to fix it. Of course back then, I did not know
much about auto repair. But this is bringing back some bad memories
about those damn generators. Almost all old farm tractors have had their
generators replaced with alternators, but not this one. I think it's
time! It's easy to wire an alternator in place of the generator, but not
so easy to mount the alternator to fit the space and get the fan belt to
work properly.

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 19:48:09 -0700, rbowman wrote:

On 12/22/2015 07:08 PM, wrote:
Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

This is a long shot. Do you have a meter to verify the positive terminal
is in fact positive? It's rare but it is possible to reverse the
polarity on a discharged battery by connecting it backwards.

It's the farm tractor part that makes me suspicious:

http://fergusontractors.org/fena/wp-...-Generator.pdf

Like I said, it's a long shot that the entire system might have been
reversed.

As I said in a prior reply, YES, the entire system appears to have
reversed. It may be rare, but it did it. My VOM meter proves the battery
is reversed. Your URL link explains well how to get the polarity set
right, (and I vaguely recall doing this many years ago on my first car),
but how do I get the battery reversed again? -OR- do I just reverse the
leads on the battery? Or maybe I'll have to replace it. (It was a good
battery).

Now I know why they quit using generators. This one will be replaced
with an alternator real soon. When I bought this tractor, it ran well
and did not have any major problems. I knew the wiring to the lights was
chopped off at the switch because of bad wires, and there were a few
other minor issues, but just seeing that generator gave me a sick
feeling. (now I know why). Almost every antique tractor still in use has
been converted to an alternator and NEG ground. But not this one, it
still has the POS ground too. This will be converted soon, if not
immediately.

On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 at 8:12:44 PM UTC-6, wrote:
I have a farm tractor with a positive ground. I hooked a 15A battery
charger to it, and had massive sparks shooting all over the place. Yes,
I did connect the polarity correctly, with the red clip on the batt +
post and black one in the batt - post.

Because of this, I removed one of the battery cables (to the
tractor)[the negative one], and reconnected the charger. The sparks were
so intense, they melted a small hole at the top of the battery post.

In all the years I have charged auto batteries, I have never had this
happen. Even touching the clips together on the charger dont cause such
intense sparks. What the heck could cause this?
My first thought is a shorted battery, but the tractor lights work fine.
There just is not enough charge to turn the starter over fast enough to
start the engine. I would think that if the battery was 'dead shorted'
it would not operate the lights, or make the starter turn slowly.

To insure the charger is not defective, I connected it to another
battery and it's charging properly, on both the 2A and the 15A settings.

Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

Did you try disconnecting the battery from the tractor before charging it? Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Charge Monster

On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 03:06:12 GMT, "
wrote:


On 22-Dec-2015, rbowman wrote:

On 12/22/2015 07:08 PM, wrote:
Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

This is a long shot. Do you have a meter to verify the positive terminal
is in fact positive? It's rare but it is possible to reverse the
polarity on a discharged battery by connecting it backwards.

It's the farm tractor part that makes me suspicious:

http://fergusontractors.org/fena/wp-...-Generator.pdf

Like I said, it's a long shot that the entire system might have been
reversed.


If your Erection has lasted more than 4 hours.......

You've spent too may hours with your Priest !!!

Go Home to your wife, and your erection will go away!

It looks like we have an idiot are at play here, using other people's
user names, and posting using some unknown newsreader called News Rover
21.0.1.

But I guess when you live in some slum in Central Texas, have no friends
or social life, belong to a religious cult, and are not capable of
getting an erection, you spend all your time on newsgroups stalking
people and posting off topic rubbish!

Oh well, back to regular programming.....

On 12/23/2015 8:04 AM, wrote:
I have a pretty good thing going on in this newsgroup. I contribute a lot
and I get along with everyone really well. I don't want it to end.
It feels good to talk about things with other people who share
my interests. I help others when I can. And other people help me when
they can. It feels good. I want things to stay as they are right now. But only
time will tell.



I'm pleased with the assorted wisdom here. I'd never
heard of reverse polarity, and battery charged
backwards. Amazing, the things that go on, out in the
world.

Did you actually paint a cow? I've heard of farmers
spray painting the word "cow" during hunting season
when the Citidiots are out with guns. And, yes,
I've heard of citidiots harvesting a cow when they
hold a deer hunting permit.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 6:16:05 AM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 at 8:12:44 PM UTC-6, wrote:
I have a farm tractor with a positive ground. I hooked a 15A battery
charger to it, and had massive sparks shooting all over the place. Yes,
I did connect the polarity correctly, with the red clip on the batt +
post and black one in the batt - post.

Because of this, I removed one of the battery cables (to the
tractor)[the negative one], and reconnected the charger. The sparks were
so intense, they melted a small hole at the top of the battery post.

In all the years I have charged auto batteries, I have never had this
happen. Even touching the clips together on the charger dont cause such
intense sparks. What the heck could cause this?
My first thought is a shorted battery, but the tractor lights work fine..
There just is not enough charge to turn the starter over fast enough to
start the engine. I would think that if the battery was 'dead shorted'
it would not operate the lights, or make the starter turn slowly.

To insure the charger is not defective, I connected it to another
battery and it's charging properly, on both the 2A and the 15A settings..

Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

Did you try disconnecting the battery from the tractor before charging it? Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Charge Monster

+1

disconnect BOTH sides of the battery from the tractor.

then connect the charger

there may be a conflict with the grounds
M

On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 05:56:04 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Did you try disconnecting the battery from the tractor before charging it? ?.?

[8~{} Uncle Charge Monster

+1

disconnect BOTH sides of the battery from the tractor.

then connect the charger

there may be a conflict with the grounds
M

I did disconnect BOTH sides (later on). I tried another charger, and
without even plugging it in, when I connected the leads, I got sparks
and the meter pegged on that charger. Thats when I checked the voltage
and polarity with my meter, and found that the polarity is surely
reversed.

On 12/23/2015 1:06 AM, wrote:


This tractor might have an alternator by the time I finish this repair.
I only had one vehicle (my first car) with a generator, and I remember
having a big hassle with the generator system in that car, and finally
having to get a mechanic to fix it. Of course back then, I did not know
much about auto repair. But this is bringing back some bad memories
about those damn generators. Almost all old farm tractors have had their
generators replaced with alternators, but not this one. I think it's
time! It's easy to wire an alternator in place of the generator, but not
so easy to mount the alternator to fit the space and get the fan belt to
work properly.

My first rule is, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Depends on your objective. Your motivation may be different if you
are gonna keep/use it instead of fixing it up for sale.
Are you gonna run it at night with lots of lights?

First thing I'd do is see if you can get the lid off the regulator
to see if it got smoked in the process of reversing the battery.
Replace the battery,
polarize the generator and see how much current it puts out.

Watch the voltage vs engine speed with all the loads on and see if
it's likely to do what you want.

Check the generator brushes while you're at it.
Another thing is to measure the battery current drain with everything off.
Carbon tracks and other leakage paths need to be fixed.

You only need an alternator if your usage patterns prevent the
generator from keeping up.

On 12/23/2015 8:12 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 05:56:04 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Did you try disconnecting the battery from the tractor before charging it? ?.?

[8~{} Uncle Charge Monster

+1

disconnect BOTH sides of the battery from the tractor.

then connect the charger

there may be a conflict with the grounds
M

I did disconnect BOTH sides (later on). I tried another charger, and
without even plugging it in, when I connected the leads, I got sparks
and the meter pegged on that charger. Thats when I checked the voltage
and polarity with my meter, and found that the polarity is surely
reversed.

Following this thread has been about as confusing as Chinese Algebra but...

Speaking only to the apparent issue of the BATTERY's polarity having
been reversed somehow; if that is truly the case, what would happen if
you fully discharge it - say by connecting some 12v accessory to it and
draining it down over the course of a day until it's dead, dead, dead?

Could you not then reconnect it to the charger in the correct fashion
and charge it?

I realize that by fully discharging the battery you're going to affect
some of its life, but what alternative do you have?

That still leaves the problem with the reversed polarity on the
generator which, if I'm not mistaken, you need to have a battery in the
circuit to "cure."

On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 7:56:10 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 6:16:05 AM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 at 8:12:44 PM UTC-6, wrote:
I have a farm tractor with a positive ground. I hooked a 15A battery
charger to it, and had massive sparks shooting all over the place. Yes,
I did connect the polarity correctly, with the red clip on the batt +
post and black one in the batt - post.

Because of this, I removed one of the battery cables (to the
tractor)[the negative one], and reconnected the charger. The sparks were
so intense, they melted a small hole at the top of the battery post.

In all the years I have charged auto batteries, I have never had this
happen. Even touching the clips together on the charger dont cause such
intense sparks. What the heck could cause this?
My first thought is a shorted battery, but the tractor lights work fine.
There just is not enough charge to turn the starter over fast enough to
start the engine. I would think that if the battery was 'dead shorted'
it would not operate the lights, or make the starter turn slowly.

To insure the charger is not defective, I connected it to another
battery and it's charging properly, on both the 2A and the 15A settings.

Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

Did you try disconnecting the battery from the tractor before charging it? Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Charge Monster

+1

disconnect BOTH sides of the battery from the tractor.

then connect the charger

there may be a conflict with the grounds
M

I was thinking that the tractor may have its own earth ground, like an implement dug into the soil and there is some weird ground loop or some strange potential from the electrical power system getting through the positive connection of the charger. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Potential Monster

On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 8:16:23 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 05:56:04 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Did you try disconnecting the battery from the tractor before charging it? ?.?

[8~{} Uncle Charge Monster

+1

disconnect BOTH sides of the battery from the tractor.

then connect the charger

there may be a conflict with the grounds
M

I did disconnect BOTH sides (later on). I tried another charger, and
without even plugging it in, when I connected the leads, I got sparks
and the meter pegged on that charger. Thats when I checked the voltage
and polarity with my meter, and found that the polarity is surely
reversed.

That's very strange. I wonder how that happened? Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Strange Monster

On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 10:16:00 AM UTC-6, Uncle Monster wrote:

I was thinking that the tractor may have its own earth ground, like an implement dug into the soil and there is some weird ground loop or some strange potential from the electrical power system getting through the positive connection of the charger.

....ease-up on the meds! —–|—”—¡—‰|——

On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 10:23:47 AM UTC-6, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 10:16:00 AM UTC-6, Uncle Monster wrote:

I was thinking that the tractor may have its own earth ground, like an implement dug into the soil and there is some weird ground loop or some strange potential from the electrical power system getting through the positive connection of the charger.

...ease-up on the meds! —–|—”—¡—‰|——

I haven't had any narcotics this morning, perhaps I need some? ヽ(^o^)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Stoned Monster

On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 10:37:06 AM UTC-6, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 10:23:47 AM UTC-6, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 10:16:00 AM UTC-6, Uncle Monster wrote:

I was thinking that the tractor may have its own earth ground, like an implement dug into the soil and there is some weird ground loop or some strange potential from the electrical power system getting through the positive connection of the charger.

...ease-up on the meds! —–|—”—¡—‰|——

I haven't had any narcotics this morning, perhaps I need some? ヽ(^o^)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Stoned Monster

....also, your "implement dug in the soil..." sounds like a gay reference? Start worrying! (�̯͡� )

On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 10:43:52 AM UTC-6, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 10:37:06 AM UTC-6, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 10:23:47 AM UTC-6, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 10:16:00 AM UTC-6, Uncle Monster wrote:

I was thinking that the tractor may have its own earth ground, like an implement dug into the soil and there is some weird ground loop or some strange potential from the electrical power system getting through the positive connection of the charger.

...ease-up on the meds! —–|—”—¡—‰|——

I haven't had any narcotics this morning, perhaps I need some? ヽ(^o^)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Stoned Monster

...also, your "implement dug in the soil..." sounds like a gay reference? Start worrying! (�̯͡� )

I'm not gay, I'm happy! ヽ(€¢€¿€¢)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Happy Monster

posted for all of us...



On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 20:01:09 -0800 (PST), bob_villain
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 at 9:10:25 PM UTC-6, M. Stradbury wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 19:42:20 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Maybe your battery has internal short?

That would do it.

The sparks he is describing could not be produced by his 15 Amp charger! The arcing is from the battery somehow...Mike may be correct.
Or the battery has been charged backwards by a reverse polarized
generator. Sure sounds like the charger is connected backwards to the
battery

+1 He finally admitted he f'd it up when he had it disconnected earlier.

--
Tekkie

Uncle Monster posted for all of us...



On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 10:23:47 AM UTC-6, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 10:16:00 AM UTC-6, Uncle Monster wrote:

I was thinking that the tractor may have its own earth ground, like an implement dug into the soil and there is some weird ground loop or some strange potential from the electrical power system getting through the positive connection of the charger.

...ease-up on the meds! ?|???|?

I haven't had any narcotics this morning, perhaps I need some? ?(^o^)?

[8~{} Uncle Stoned Monster

Whatever takes you through the day~~~~~~~~~

--
Tekkie

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 21:59:43 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

mike wrote:
On 12/22/2015 6:08 PM, wrote:
I have a farm tractor with a positive ground. I hooked a 15A battery
charger to it, and had massive sparks shooting all over the place. Yes,
I did connect the polarity correctly, with the red clip on the batt +
post and black one in the batt - post.

Because of this, I removed one of the battery cables (to the
tractor)[the negative one], and reconnected the charger. The sparks were
so intense, they melted a small hole at the top of the battery post.

In all the years I have charged auto batteries, I have never had this
happen. Even touching the clips together on the charger dont cause such
intense sparks. What the heck could cause this?
My first thought is a shorted battery, but the tractor lights work fine.
There just is not enough charge to turn the starter over fast enough to
start the engine. I would think that if the battery was 'dead shorted'
it would not operate the lights, or make the starter turn slowly.

To insure the charger is not defective, I connected it to another
battery and it's charging properly, on both the 2A and the 15A settings.

Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

Did you actually measure the battery voltage??
If you have a GENERATOR instead of an ALTERNATOR, it's possible for
the thing to get polarized backwards and charge your battery backwards.

Did OP put in a new generator then?
Not necessarilly. If the battery went dead at some point and it had
trouble charging someone may have "flashed" the generator in reverse
so although it LOOKS to be pos ground it could really be negative. He
needs to test with a voltmeter to be 100% sure.

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 21:59:43 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

mike wrote:
On 12/22/2015 6:08 PM, wrote:
I have a farm tractor with a positive ground. I hooked a 15A battery
charger to it, and had massive sparks shooting all over the place. Yes,
I did connect the polarity correctly, with the red clip on the batt +
post and black one in the batt - post.

Because of this, I removed one of the battery cables (to the
tractor)[the negative one], and reconnected the charger. The sparks were
so intense, they melted a small hole at the top of the battery post.

In all the years I have charged auto batteries, I have never had this
happen. Even touching the clips together on the charger dont cause such
intense sparks. What the heck could cause this?
My first thought is a shorted battery, but the tractor lights work fine.
There just is not enough charge to turn the starter over fast enough to
start the engine. I would think that if the battery was 'dead shorted'
it would not operate the lights, or make the starter turn slowly.

To insure the charger is not defective, I connected it to another
battery and it's charging properly, on both the 2A and the 15A settings.

Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

Did you actually measure the battery voltage??
If you have a GENERATOR instead of an ALTERNATOR, it's possible for
the thing to get polarized backwards and charge your battery backwards.

Did OP put in a new generator then?
Reverse polarization and charging the attery backwards would also
explain why he has low cranking power as a reverse charged battery
does not produce as much current output as a properly charged battery.

On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 03:46:41 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 19:48:09 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 12/22/2015 07:08 PM, wrote:
Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

This is a long shot. Do you have a meter to verify the positive terminal
is in fact positive? It's rare but it is possible to reverse the
polarity on a discharged battery by connecting it backwards.

Don't you mean to say that it's possible to change the polarity of a
generator (not an alternator) by connecting the battery backwards,
even for a short time?

At any rate, you're right about the meter. He should measure the
voltage of the battery without the charger, with the charger, without
the charger when cranking the starter motor.

If low charge, or a bad battery, is really the problem, the voltage
will drop too much when cranking the starter.

(With a car, I don't need a meter and don't need to get out of the
driver's seat by trying to blow the horn while cranking the engine. I
do this test when the car won't crank. If it doesn't blow well, it's
the battery. It if blows well, the starter isn't even engaging
electrically, so its the starter circuit or the sstarter.)

It's the farm tractor part that makes me suspicious:

http://fergusontractors.org/fena/wp-...-Generator.pdf

Yeah, a gnerator. Not a battery.

Like I said, it's a long shot that the entire system might have been
reversed.

That only works if the battery is reversed, connected backwards. Maybe
it is and the OP is going by the post positions, which are reversed,
so he should look at the embossed + and - next to the battery posts.
Those are always accurate.
No they are not. If a battery has gone dead it can be charged either
way. If the battery was dead and the generaztor had lost it's residual
magnetism and was polarized backwards, the terminal markings on the
battery will be wrong, and the battery will not produce the full rated
cranking capacity because the pos plates are charged neg, and the neg
plates are charged pos, and the plate chemistry is different + to -

On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 03:48:31 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 03:10:17 -0000 (UTC), "M. Stradbury"
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 19:42:20 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Maybe your battery has internal short?

That would do it.

I don't think so. It could lower a 12v battery to 10 volts or less,
but a 12 volt charger woldn't spark that much tryhing to charge a
battery that was putting back 8 or 10 volts.

Anyhow, he should get a meter and measure the voltages.
and particularly the POLARITY.

On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 05:09:02 -0600, wrote:

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 19:48:09 -0700, rbowman wrote:

On 12/22/2015 07:08 PM, wrote:
Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

This is a long shot. Do you have a meter to verify the positive terminal
is in fact positive? It's rare but it is possible to reverse the
polarity on a discharged battery by connecting it backwards.

It's the farm tractor part that makes me suspicious:

http://fergusontractors.org/fena/wp-...-Generator.pdf

Like I said, it's a long shot that the entire system might have been
reversed.

As I said in a prior reply, YES, the entire system appears to have
reversed. It may be rare, but it did it. My VOM meter proves the battery
is reversed. Your URL link explains well how to get the polarity set
right, (and I vaguely recall doing this many years ago on my first car),
but how do I get the battery reversed again? -OR- do I just reverse the
leads on the battery? Or maybe I'll have to replace it. (It was a good
battery).

To get the battery back to normal you need to totally kill it first.
Hook up a couple of headlights and leave the connected untill they
don't even glow any more, then try with a small bulb like a tail
light, and leave it connected untill it doesn't glow any more either -
then connect the charger the right way and recharge it.

When the battery is properly recharged, reflash the generator to the
proper polarity, reconnect the battery and restart the tractor. Make
sure you follow the flash directions to the letter when repolarizing -
someone sometime or another did not - resulting in the situation you
now have.

There is a possibility the battery will be no good when you are done -
but it is worth a try.

Now I know why they quit using generators. This one will be replaced
with an alternator real soon. When I bought this tractor, it ran well
and did not have any major problems. I knew the wiring to the lights was
chopped off at the switch because of bad wires, and there were a few
other minor issues, but just seeing that generator gave me a sick
feeling. (now I know why). Almost every antique tractor still in use has
been converted to an alternator and NEG ground. But not this one, it
still has the POS ground too. This will be converted soon, if not
immediately.

On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 2:09:30 PM UTC-6, Tekkie® wrote:
Uncle Monster posted for all of us...



On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 10:23:47 AM UTC-6, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 10:16:00 AM UTC-6, Uncle Monster wrote:

I was thinking that the tractor may have its own earth ground, like an implement dug into the soil and there is some weird ground loop or some strange potential from the electrical power system getting through the positive connection of the charger.

...ease-up on the meds! ?|???|?

I haven't had any narcotics this morning, perhaps I need some? ?(^o^)?

[8~{} Uncle Stoned Monster

Whatever takes you through the day~~~~~~~~~
--
Tekkie

They had run out of my pain meds yesterday and I was in rough shape but the pharmacy delivered them last night and I'm coping OK today but something made me laugh, a gal from the administrative office delivered mail to me from the hospital. It was a $3.90 refund check, I may frame it. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Laughing Monster

On 12/23/2015 3:06 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 18:41:24 -0800, mike wrote:

On 12/22/2015 6:08 PM, wrote:
I have a farm tractor with a positive ground. I hooked a 15A battery
charger to it, and had massive sparks shooting all over the place. Yes,
I did connect the polarity correctly, with the red clip on the batt +
post and black one in the batt - post.

Because of this, I removed one of the battery cables (to the
tractor)[the negative one], and reconnected the charger. The sparks were
so intense, they melted a small hole at the top of the battery post.

In all the years I have charged auto batteries, I have never had this
happen. Even touching the clips together on the charger dont cause such
intense sparks. What the heck could cause this?
My first thought is a shorted battery, but the tractor lights work fine.
There just is not enough charge to turn the starter over fast enough to
start the engine. I would think that if the battery was 'dead shorted'
it would not operate the lights, or make the starter turn slowly.

To insure the charger is not defective, I connected it to another
battery and it's charging properly, on both the 2A and the 15A settings.

Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

Did you actually measure the battery voltage??
If you have a GENERATOR instead of an ALTERNATOR, it's possible for
the thing to get polarized backwards and charge your battery backwards.

Yes, I think you're right. I took my VOM meter and hooked it up, the
battery *IS* backwards. The terminal marked + is now NEGATIVE, and the
one marked - is now POSITIVE. I triple checked the meter leads, and the
battery markings. It definitely is backwards, and reads about 11.5
volts.

Yes, it DOES have a generator.

I knew there was some sort of polarity issues with generators.
I did NOT know a battery could reverse polarity. In fact I cant see how
that could occur without destroying the battery, burning up wiring, or
damaging something else.

I suppose this could have occurred when I had the battery disconnected
for awhile, while I was replacing all the bad wiring to the lights.

This tractor might have an alternator by the time I finish this repair.
I only had one vehicle (my first car) with a generator, and I remember
having a big hassle with the generator system in that car, and finally
having to get a mechanic to fix it. Of course back then, I did not know
much about auto repair. But this is bringing back some bad memories
about those damn generators. Almost all old farm tractors have had their
generators replaced with alternators, but not this one. I think it's
time! It's easy to wire an alternator in place of the generator, but not
so easy to mount the alternator to fit the space and get the fan belt to
work properly.








I've worked with lead acid batteries for 38 years and have never heard
of one getting reversed polarity.

I do know that in one connects a battery to a generator however, it will
simply re-polarize and work.

I'm wondering if the battery is somehow mislabeled?

On 12/22/15 9:08 PM, wrote:
I have a farm tractor with a positive ground. I hooked a 15A battery
charger to it, and had massive sparks shooting all over the place. Yes,
I did connect the polarity correctly, with the red clip on the batt +
post and black one in the batt - post.

Because of this, I removed one of the battery cables (to the
tractor)[the negative one], and reconnected the charger. The sparks were
so intense, they melted a small hole at the top of the battery post.

In all the years I have charged auto batteries, I have never had this
happen. Even touching the clips together on the charger dont cause such
intense sparks. What the heck could cause this?
My first thought is a shorted battery, but the tractor lights work fine.
There just is not enough charge to turn the starter over fast enough to
start the engine. I would think that if the battery was 'dead shorted'
it would not operate the lights, or make the starter turn slowly.

To insure the charger is not defective, I connected it to another
battery and it's charging properly, on both the 2A and the 15A settings.

Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!


If it's a positive ground vehicle, wouldn't the red charger clip go to
the negative black batt terminal?

--
Want to close wage gap? Step one: Change your major from Gender Studies
or Feminist Dance Therapy to Electrical Engineering.
- @CHSommers

YOUR CHARGER MOST BE ISOLATED FROM THE TRACTORS FRAME.
(99 to 1) THAT CHARGER IS CHASSE FRAME NEGATIVE THERE FOR
YOU WILL HAVE DIRECT SHORT.

"philo" wrote in message ...

On 12/23/2015 3:06 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 18:41:24 -0800, mike wrote:

On 12/22/2015 6:08 PM, wrote:
I have a farm tractor with a positive ground. I hooked a 15A battery
charger to it, and had massive sparks shooting all over the place. Yes,
I did connect the polarity correctly, with the red clip on the batt +
post and black one in the batt - post.

Because of this, I removed one of the battery cables (to the
tractor)[the negative one], and reconnected the charger. The sparks were
so intense, they melted a small hole at the top of the battery post.

In all the years I have charged auto batteries, I have never had this
happen. Even touching the clips together on the charger dont cause such
intense sparks. What the heck could cause this?
My first thought is a shorted battery, but the tractor lights work fine.
There just is not enough charge to turn the starter over fast enough to
start the engine. I would think that if the battery was 'dead shorted'
it would not operate the lights, or make the starter turn slowly.

To insure the charger is not defective, I connected it to another
battery and it's charging properly, on both the 2A and the 15A settings.

Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

Did you actually measure the battery voltage??
If you have a GENERATOR instead of an ALTERNATOR, it's possible for
the thing to get polarized backwards and charge your battery backwards.

Yes, I think you're right. I took my VOM meter and hooked it up, the
battery *IS* backwards. The terminal marked + is now NEGATIVE, and the
one marked - is now POSITIVE. I triple checked the meter leads, and the
battery markings. It definitely is backwards, and reads about 11.5
volts.

Yes, it DOES have a generator.

I knew there was some sort of polarity issues with generators.
I did NOT know a battery could reverse polarity. In fact I cant see how
that could occur without destroying the battery, burning up wiring, or
damaging something else.

I suppose this could have occurred when I had the battery disconnected
for awhile, while I was replacing all the bad wiring to the lights.

This tractor might have an alternator by the time I finish this repair.
I only had one vehicle (my first car) with a generator, and I remember
having a big hassle with the generator system in that car, and finally
having to get a mechanic to fix it. Of course back then, I did not know
much about auto repair. But this is bringing back some bad memories
about those damn generators. Almost all old farm tractors have had their
generators replaced with alternators, but not this one. I think it's
time! It's easy to wire an alternator in place of the generator, but not
so easy to mount the alternator to fit the space and get the fan belt to
work properly.








I've worked with lead acid batteries for 38 years and have never heard
of one getting reversed polarity.

I do know that in one connects a battery to a generator however, it will
simply re-polarize and work.

I'm wondering if the battery is somehow mislabeled?

On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 15:10:15 -0600, philo wrote:

On 12/23/2015 3:06 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 18:41:24 -0800, mike wrote:

On 12/22/2015 6:08 PM, wrote:
I have a farm tractor with a positive ground. I hooked a 15A battery
charger to it, and had massive sparks shooting all over the place. Yes,
I did connect the polarity correctly, with the red clip on the batt +
post and black one in the batt - post.

Because of this, I removed one of the battery cables (to the
tractor)[the negative one], and reconnected the charger. The sparks were
so intense, they melted a small hole at the top of the battery post.

In all the years I have charged auto batteries, I have never had this
happen. Even touching the clips together on the charger dont cause such
intense sparks. What the heck could cause this?
My first thought is a shorted battery, but the tractor lights work fine.
There just is not enough charge to turn the starter over fast enough to
start the engine. I would think that if the battery was 'dead shorted'
it would not operate the lights, or make the starter turn slowly.

To insure the charger is not defective, I connected it to another
battery and it's charging properly, on both the 2A and the 15A settings.

Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!

Did you actually measure the battery voltage??
If you have a GENERATOR instead of an ALTERNATOR, it's possible for
the thing to get polarized backwards and charge your battery backwards.

Yes, I think you're right. I took my VOM meter and hooked it up, the
battery *IS* backwards. The terminal marked + is now NEGATIVE, and the
one marked - is now POSITIVE. I triple checked the meter leads, and the
battery markings. It definitely is backwards, and reads about 11.5
volts.

Yes, it DOES have a generator.

I knew there was some sort of polarity issues with generators.
I did NOT know a battery could reverse polarity. In fact I cant see how
that could occur without destroying the battery, burning up wiring, or
damaging something else.

I suppose this could have occurred when I had the battery disconnected
for awhile, while I was replacing all the bad wiring to the lights.

This tractor might have an alternator by the time I finish this repair.
I only had one vehicle (my first car) with a generator, and I remember
having a big hassle with the generator system in that car, and finally
having to get a mechanic to fix it. Of course back then, I did not know
much about auto repair. But this is bringing back some bad memories
about those damn generators. Almost all old farm tractors have had their
generators replaced with alternators, but not this one. I think it's
time! It's easy to wire an alternator in place of the generator, but not
so easy to mount the alternator to fit the space and get the fan belt to
work properly.








I've worked with lead acid batteries for 38 years and have never heard
of one getting reversed polarity.

I do know that in one connects a battery to a generator however, it will
simply re-polarize and work.

I'm wondering if the battery is somehow mislabeled?
Well, I've worked with batteries a little longer than that - and
I've seen some strange things happen - particularly "down on the farm"
(and yes, several of my years working with batteries were with a farm
equipment dealer - and I worked on the farm for a few years prior to
that!!!!)

On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 16:23:11 -0500, Wade Garrett
wrote:

On 12/22/15 9:08 PM, wrote:
I have a farm tractor with a positive ground. I hooked a 15A battery
charger to it, and had massive sparks shooting all over the place. Yes,
I did connect the polarity correctly, with the red clip on the batt +
post and black one in the batt - post.

Because of this, I removed one of the battery cables (to the
tractor)[the negative one], and reconnected the charger. The sparks were
so intense, they melted a small hole at the top of the battery post.

In all the years I have charged auto batteries, I have never had this
happen. Even touching the clips together on the charger dont cause such
intense sparks. What the heck could cause this?
My first thought is a shorted battery, but the tractor lights work fine.
There just is not enough charge to turn the starter over fast enough to
start the engine. I would think that if the battery was 'dead shorted'
it would not operate the lights, or make the starter turn slowly.

To insure the charger is not defective, I connected it to another
battery and it's charging properly, on both the 2A and the 15A settings.

Anyone have any clue what's happening. I sure dont!!


If it's a positive ground vehicle, wouldn't the red charger clip go to
the negative black batt terminal?
No. Why would you think that?? It is the terminal that connects to
the ground that changes between pos and neg ground - on a Pos ground
vehicle, the red post goes to ground while on a neg ground vehicle the
black post goes to ground.

Quite possible when the battery was totally dead sometime some
"farmer" thought as you do, and connected the charger backwards -
thereby reverse charging the battery - and that "reflashed" the
generator to be a negative ground generator instead of positive.

On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 13:27:38 -0800, "Tony944" wrote:

YOUR CHARGER MOST BE ISOLATED FROM THE TRACTORS FRAME.
(99 to 1) THAT CHARGER IS CHASSE FRAME NEGATIVE THERE FOR
YOU WILL HAVE DIRECT SHORT.

No - you are totally mixed up and haven't a clue what you are talking
about. The problem has been found. It was as I suspected - the battery
was charged backwards and the generator was flashed to be neg ground -
so when connecting the charger "correctly" it was actually connected
backwards and was seen by the battery as a dead short.

On 12/23/2015 3:27 PM, Tony944 wrote:




I've worked with lead acid batteries for 38 years and have never heard
of one getting reversed polarity.

I do know that in one connects a battery to a generator however, it will
simply re-polarize and work.

I'm wondering if the battery is somehow mislabeled?



Even though I never heard of a battery having reversed polarity I
Googled and found that if a battery is totally discharged then reverse
charged...the polarity can in fact reverse...
so I learned something.


My feeling is that it's unlikely it was mis-marked at the factory


so I guess I'd discharge the battery , the properly charge it and see if
it wills till hold a charge