I would just like some advice since I melted a USB cable today
and I realized I don't have the proper troubleshooting skills.

I bought over a half-dozen "Hype Volt" 6.8Amp USB chargers for
stuffing the Christmas stockings:
https://i.imgur.com/Zavgm4B.jpg

I kept one for myself, but, when I used it last night on an iPad
and on an Android phone, the iPad lightning cable melted!

When I pulled it off the iPad, it was noticeably extremely hot,
but it doesn't seem to have damaged the iPad (AFAIK).

So, I'm just wondering what happened, and, more importantly, when
I look at the specs for this device, they don't make sense to me,
so, I have difficulty troubleshooting what the problem is/was.

Here are all the specs off the package and off the device:
DGL Group Ltd. Hype Volt HV-6PT
Model: HC363-5U (also listed as HV-6PT-WHT)
Input: AC 110VAC/60Hz - 220VAC/50Hz (800mA max)
Output: DC 5V, 6.8A total
Maximum Power: 40W
Supercharge: maximum
Universal: 5V@1A maximum

Description:
http://www.amazon.com/Hype-Compact-A.../dp/B00T3FQBHO
http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/hype-vol.../6000193376994

My questions are varied, because I don't understand how it works,
nor how it could have overheated the cable to the tablet.

Here's what it says on the package:
"Smart USB Technology: This adapter automatically adjusts power
output to fit your charging device. Tablets and e-readers require
2 Amp charging, and this adapter will reroute power to the
appropriate USB port you use."

"Charging Combinations:
- 2 tablets + 3 mobile devices
- 1 tablet + 4 mobile devices
- 5 mobile devices
- 3 tablets"

I am confused about both the pure math and how this operates.

Q1: Since 6.8A times 5VDC is only 34Watts (not 40 Watts), how
can they very clearly label it as a 40Watt device?

Q2: How does the device "know" to give tablets 2.4 Amps
(12 Watts) but a "mobile device" only 1Amp (5 Watts).

Q3: What if a mobile device "wants" more than 1 amp?
Does the charger give more than 1A to the device?

"Danny D." writes:
I would just like some advice since I melted a USB cable today
and I realized I don't have the proper troubleshooting skills.


Here's what it says on the package:
"Smart USB Technology: This adapter automatically adjusts power
output to fit your charging device. Tablets and e-readers require
2 Amp charging, and this adapter will reroute power to the
appropriate USB port you use."

"Charging Combinations:
- 2 tablets + 3 mobile devices
- 1 tablet + 4 mobile devices
- 5 mobile devices
- 3 tablets"

I am confused about both the pure math and how this operates.

Q1: Since 6.8A times 5VDC is only 34Watts (not 40 Watts), how
can they very clearly label it as a 40Watt device?

http://www.powerstream.com/VA-Watts.htm


Q2: How does the device "know" to give tablets 2.4 Amps
(12 Watts) but a "mobile device" only 1Amp (5 Watts).

http://www.extremetech.com/computing...our-smartphone


Q3: What if a mobile device "wants" more than 1 amp?
Does the charger give more than 1A to the device?

Ask the manufacturer.

In article , Danny D.
wrote:

I would just like some advice since I melted a USB cable today
and I realized I don't have the proper troubleshooting skills.

I bought over a half-dozen "Hype Volt" 6.8Amp USB chargers for
stuffing the Christmas stockings:
https://i.imgur.com/Zavgm4B.jpg

I kept one for myself, but, when I used it last night on an iPad
and on an Android phone, the iPad lightning cable melted!

was it an mfi-compliant cable or a noname one?

When I pulled it off the iPad, it was noticeably extremely hot,
but it doesn't seem to have damaged the iPad (AFAIK).

probably not.

So, I'm just wondering what happened, and, more importantly, when
I look at the specs for this device, they don't make sense to me,
so, I have difficulty troubleshooting what the problem is/was.

Here are all the specs off the package and off the device:
DGL Group Ltd. Hype Volt HV-6PT
Model: HC363-5U (also listed as HV-6PT-WHT)
Input: AC 110VAC/60Hz - 220VAC/50Hz (800mA max)
Output: DC 5V, 6.8A total
Maximum Power: 40W
Supercharge: maximum
Universal: 5V@1A maximum

Description:

http://www.amazon.com/Hype-Compact-A...ter/dp/B00T3FQ
BHO

http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/hype-vol...b-ports/600019
3376994

My questions are varied, because I don't understand how it works,

from what you've said, it doesn't work.

nor how it could have overheated the cable to the tablet.

Here's what it says on the package:
"Smart USB Technology: This adapter automatically adjusts power
output to fit your charging device. Tablets and e-readers require
2 Amp charging, and this adapter will reroute power to the
appropriate USB port you use."

"Charging Combinations:
- 2 tablets + 3 mobile devices
- 1 tablet + 4 mobile devices
- 5 mobile devices
- 3 tablets"

I am confused about both the pure math and how this operates.

Q1: Since 6.8A times 5VDC is only 34Watts (not 40 Watts), how
can they very clearly label it as a 40Watt device?

probably what it consumes, not what it outputs.

Q2: How does the device "know" to give tablets 2.4 Amps
(12 Watts) but a "mobile device" only 1Amp (5 Watts).

usb devices initially get 100ma and then request how much power they
really want. the charger responds with how much it can supply.

some non-compliant devices ignore the negotiation phase and either
output whatever power is needed and/or the device uses whatever is
available. that's probably the case here. however, that alone is not a
problem.

an easy way to think about this is a lightbulb. if you screw in a 15w
bulb, it will use 15w. if you screw in a 60w bulb, it will use 60w.
with a 200w bulb, it will use 200w. nothing about the light socket or
the house wiring has changed. it uses what it needs. a 15w bulb won't
be overloaded because the socket *can* supply more power.

Q3: What if a mobile device "wants" more than 1 amp?
Does the charger give more than 1A to the device?

a properly designed charger won't because it can't. it tells the device
"all you're getting is 1a" and the device says "ok".

a ****ty charger might, which can cause it to overheat.

Scott Lurndal wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 17:38:04 +0000:

Q1: Since 6.8A times 5VDC is only 34Watts (not 40 Watts), how
can they very clearly label it as a 40Watt device?

http://www.powerstream.com/VA-Watts.htm

Here is a better (bigger) picture of the unit:
https://i.imgur.com/8bl7ypU.jpg
And a better (bigger) picture of the package:
https://i.imgur.com/30qxupn.jpg

I thank you for the reference, but, after reading it, I don't
see how that article helps explain the *output* wattage
descrepancy between 6.8A x 5VDC and the stated output spec
of 40Watts.

That article explains how to convert Volt-Amps to Watts.
"How to convert VA to Watts and KVA to Kilowatts"
http://www.powerstream.com/VA-Watts.htm

The input voltage is AC so roughly the input wattage is:
110VAC RMS times 800mA (max) which is roughly 88VA

But it's the OUTPUT wattage that is stated to be 40Watts.
6.8Amps x 5.0VDC is only 34 Watts

Hence, a rather large 15% descrepancy (6 watts less than
40 watts).

I'm sure my math on the output wattage is wrong because
the package can't be wrong (that would be illegal), so,
I don't see where my math went wrong yet though.

So, any advice is welcome and I will check it out.

Don't believe anything this ignorant and/or lying troll says...

--
nospam nospam nospam.invalid wrote in news:301120151245250051%nospam nospam.invalid:

Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nospam nospam nospam.invalid
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,comp.mobile.ipad,alt.home.repa ir
Subject: Advice sought on why 6.8A USB charger melted USB cable today
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:45:25 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Message-ID: 301120151245250051%nospam nospam.invalid
References: n3hval$3af$1 dont-email.me
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In article n3hval$3af$1 dont-email.me, Danny D.
dannydiamico gmail.com wrote:

I would just like some advice since I melted a USB cable today
and I realized I don't have the proper troubleshooting skills.

I bought over a half-dozen "Hype Volt" 6.8Amp USB chargers for
stuffing the Christmas stockings:
https://i.imgur.com/Zavgm4B.jpg

I kept one for myself, but, when I used it last night on an iPad
and on an Android phone, the iPad lightning cable melted!

was it an mfi-compliant cable or a noname one?

When I pulled it off the iPad, it was noticeably extremely hot,
but it doesn't seem to have damaged the iPad (AFAIK).

probably not.

So, I'm just wondering what happened, and, more importantly, when
I look at the specs for this device, they don't make sense to me,
so, I have difficulty troubleshooting what the problem is/was.

Here are all the specs off the package and off the device:
DGL Group Ltd. Hype Volt HV-6PT
Model: HC363-5U (also listed as HV-6PT-WHT)
Input: AC 110VAC/60Hz - 220VAC/50Hz (800mA max)
Output: DC 5V, 6.8A total
Maximum Power: 40W
Supercharge: 5V 2.4A maximum
Universal: 5V 1A maximum

Description:

http://www.amazon.com/Hype-Compact-A...ter/dp/B00T3FQ
BHO

http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/hype-vol...b-ports/600019
3376994

My questions are varied, because I don't understand how it works,

from what you've said, it doesn't work.

nor how it could have overheated the cable to the tablet.

Here's what it says on the package:
"Smart USB Technology: This adapter automatically adjusts power
output to fit your charging device. Tablets and e-readers require
2 Amp charging, and this adapter will reroute power to the
appropriate USB port you use."

"Charging Combinations:
- 2 tablets + 3 mobile devices
- 1 tablet + 4 mobile devices
- 5 mobile devices
- 3 tablets"

I am confused about both the pure math and how this operates.

Q1: Since 6.8A times 5VDC is only 34Watts (not 40 Watts), how
can they very clearly label it as a 40Watt device?

probably what it consumes, not what it outputs.

Q2: How does the device "know" to give tablets 2.4 Amps
(12 Watts) but a "mobile device" only 1Amp (5 Watts).

usb devices initially get 100ma and then request how much power they
really want. the charger responds with how much it can supply.

some non-compliant devices ignore the negotiation phase and either
output whatever power is needed and/or the device uses whatever is
available. that's probably the case here. however, that alone is not a
problem.

an easy way to think about this is a lightbulb. if you screw in a 15w
bulb, it will use 15w. if you screw in a 60w bulb, it will use 60w.
with a 200w bulb, it will use 200w. nothing about the light socket or
the house wiring has changed. it uses what it needs. a 15w bulb won't
be overloaded because the socket *can* supply more power.

Q3: What if a mobile device "wants" more than 1 amp?
Does the charger give more than 1A to the device?

a properly designed charger won't because it can't. it tells the device
"all you're getting is 1a" and the device says "ok".

a ****ty charger might, which can cause it to overheat.

Scott Lurndal wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 17:38:04 +0000:

Q2: How does the device "know" to give tablets 2.4 Amps
(12 Watts) but a "mobile device" only 1Amp (5 Watts).

http://www.extremetech.com/computing...our-smartphone

Thanks for that article, titled:
How USB charging works, or how to avoid blowing up your smartphone

The article explained that USB 3.0 "cables" have 9 wires but when I
looked at the 6.8Amp charger, each USB slot seems to have only 4
gold pins on the white protruding tab. I presume the surrounding
metal is ground, so, that makes 5 electrical connections that I can
see in each USB slot of the 6.8Amp/40Watt "Smart" wall charger.

The article says there are three types of USB 3.0 ports:
1. Standard downstream port (900mA at 5VDC = 4.5Watts)
2. Charging downstream port (1.5A at 5VDC = 7.5Watts)
3. Dedicated charging port (1.5A at 5VDC = 7.5Watts)

The article did say "A regular USB 1.0 or 2.0 socket has four pins",
so, I wonder if they counted the ground shield because the sockets
on mine only have 4 gold strips on the white protruding tab, so,
I'm not sure which USB spec my sockets are.

While this is interesting, after reading that article, I didn't see
anything in there that explained the problem nor how to troubleshoot
it.

Scott Lurndal wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 17:38:04 +0000:

Ask the manufacturer.

Here are some more specs:
https://www.touchofmodern.com/sales/.../smart-adapter

The manufacturer is listed as "DLG Group LTD" on the package:
https://i.imgur.com/30qxupn.jpg

And, as "Hype Volt" on the device:
https://i.imgur.com/8bl7ypU.jpg

Looking for a phone number, I find this description which says
they're based out of "Edision, New Jersey" (with the USPTO
giving the HYPE VOLT trademark serial number of 86138884
which was subsequently "abandoned"):
http://www.trademarkia.com/hype-volt-86138884.html

The contact was provided as:
URI DALLAL
PO BOX 340256
BROOKLYN, NY 11234-0256

Googling further, the DGL Group seems to be located he
http://listings.findthecompany.com/l...d-in-Edison-NJ
195 Raritan Center Pkwy
Edison, New Jersey 08837-3650
(718) 499-1000
http://www.dglusa.com

Another phone number was listed he
https://start.cortera.com/company/re...l5p/dgl-group/
195 RARITAN CENTER PKWY
EDISON, NJ 08837-3650 | view map
(732) 692-5000
www.dglusa.com

Another site gives similar information:
http://www.yellowpages.com/edison-nj...roup-468058349
195 Raritan Center Pkwy, Edison, NJ 08837
(732) 379-6000
Primary Phone: (732) 225-1251
Phone: (732) 225-1251

This gives another number:
https://www.dandb.com/businessdirect...-14169289.html
195 RARITAN CENTER PKWY EDISON, NJ 08837 Get Directions
(718) 499-1000, www.dglusa.com

I'm calling them, as we speak.

In article , Danny D.
wrote:


The article explained that USB 3.0 "cables" have 9 wires but when I
looked at the 6.8Amp charger, each USB slot seems to have only 4
gold pins on the white protruding tab. I presume the surrounding
metal is ground, so, that makes 5 electrical connections that I can
see in each USB slot of the 6.8Amp/40Watt "Smart" wall charger.

charging only requires two wires, plus two to negotiate the power.

usb 3 makes *no* difference for a charger.

nospam wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:45:25 -0500:

was it an mfi-compliant cable or a noname one?

How would I know by looking at it?

Here is a closeup picture of it:
https://i.imgur.com/Dy37Ek8.jpg

It has a USB symbol and that's about it for markings.

nospam wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 13:42:42 -0500:

charging only requires two wires, plus two to negotiate the power.

usb 3 makes *no* difference for a charger.

Thanks.

That explains why each USB socket only has four gold pins on the
white protruding tab.

I did call the company in Edison NJ at 718-499-1000, and, after going
through their operator, I spoke with "Bob", a salesman at the office.

I told him, nicely, that it must be true, otherwise it would
seem to me to be illegal to over represent the output power by 15%.

He didn't know the answer to why it says it outputs 40Watts but at
the same time it says the maximum is 6.8Amps at 5VDC, but Bob said
he'd try to find out and for me to call him back tomorrow.

nospam wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:45:25 -0500:

probably what it consumes, not what it outputs.

It can't be the input because 100-220VAC times the maximum stated
800mA input current is 80 Watts (give or take) input, which would
be about right assuming 50% efficiency.

usb devices initially get 100ma and then request how much power they
really want. the charger responds with how much it can supply.

That is interesting. So, when I plugged in the iPad, it "asked" for
100mA, and then it asked for more, so the charger gave it more?

But, then, why did the cord melt?

some non-compliant devices ignore the negotiation phase and either
output whatever power is needed and/or the device uses whatever is
available. that's probably the case here. however, that alone is not a
problem.

I understand that a current "source", which is the charger, is just a
source of current (sort of like being a big tank of water); it's not
going to "push" that current into the current "sink", which is the
iPad at any rate more than what the iPad "asks" for.

So, I'm assuming that the cable is bad (maybe pins are shorted, for
example, between power and ground).

But that still doesn't explain why the device says it's both 40Watts
output and that its maximum output is 6.8Amps at 5VDC.

That's not even close to 40 Watts (it's 15% off).

On 11/30/2015 10:00 AM, Danny D. wrote:
I would just like some advice since I melted a USB cable today
and I realized I don't have the proper troubleshooting skills.

I bought over a half-dozen "Hype Volt" 6.8Amp USB chargers for
stuffing the Christmas stockings:
https://i.imgur.com/Zavgm4B.jpg

I kept one for myself, but, when I used it last night on an iPad
and on an Android phone, the iPad lightning cable melted!

When I pulled it off the iPad, it was noticeably extremely hot,
but it doesn't seem to have damaged the iPad (AFAIK).

So, I'm just wondering what happened, and, more importantly, when
I look at the specs for this device, they don't make sense to me,
so, I have difficulty troubleshooting what the problem is/was.

Here are all the specs off the package and off the device:
DGL Group Ltd. Hype Volt HV-6PT
Model: HC363-5U (also listed as HV-6PT-WHT)
Input: AC 110VAC/60Hz - 220VAC/50Hz (800mA max)

The device can be powered by 110V at 60Hz (US market) *or*
220V at 50Hz (european). Internally, the device can be thought of
as "autosensing" the input and adjusting, accordingly. (in practice,
there's no real "sensing" involved; it will also work at 190V/53Hz
as well as a multitude of other combinations! Possibly even DC!)

In those conditions, it will not draw more than 800mA.

Output: DC 5V, 6.8A total

The output will be 5V (nominally... it may actually be 5.1V, etc.)
The TOTAL current available is 6.8A. Think of current as water
flowing through a pipe -- at a particular RATE (amps). This
says that the "pipe" can supply water (current) at a rate of 6.8A.

Maximum Power: 40W

The power supply/charger will consume a maximum of 40W. As it
will only DELIVER 34W (6.8A x 5V) to your "loads", this suggests
the device is ~75% efficient (34/40). The extra "power" drawn from
the AC mains is lost -- as heat.

Supercharge: maximum

Each connector in "supercharge mode" can deliver 2.4A at the stated 5V.

Universal: 5V@1A maximum

This is what a "regular" USB connector delivers

Description:
http://www.amazon.com/Hype-Compact-A.../dp/B00T3FQBHO
http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/hype-vol.../6000193376994

My questions are varied, because I don't understand how it works,
nor how it could have overheated the cable to the tablet.

That would depend on what's inside the tablet. The short answer is:
there was a potential (voltage) drop across the cable (i.e., from the
charger end to the tablet end) *and* current flowing through the
cable. The drop at that current rate expresses a power (heat) that
is dissipated *in* the cable.

Hook a *stiff* car battery charger to a *good* battery (in techno-speak,
both devices want to have low apparent impedances... not easily "pulled"
from their desired state). Charger puts out X volts. Battery is *at*
Y volts. X Y causes current to flow TOWARDS the battery; Y X causes
current to flow FROM the battery.

But, neither the battery nor the charger are "moving" -- so, the difference
(X-Y) is appearing across the length of the wire connecting them. I.e.,
the *wire* is handling the mismatch -- by getting hot! :

Here's what it says on the package:
"Smart USB Technology: This adapter automatically adjusts power
output to fit your charging device. Tablets and e-readers require
2 Amp charging, and this adapter will reroute power to the
appropriate USB port you use."

"Charging Combinations:
- 2 tablets + 3 mobile devices
- 1 tablet + 4 mobile devices
- 5 mobile devices
- 3 tablets"

I am confused about both the pure math and how this operates.

Q1: Since 6.8A times 5VDC is only 34Watts (not 40 Watts), how
can they very clearly label it as a 40Watt device?

See above. You consume foodstuffs every day. If you don't gain
weight, AND, don't sh*t, you are 100% efficient in your utilization
of those calories (hand-waving as not everything you "take in"
CAN be "burned").

The 40W is what you are consuming; what the electric company is billing
you for [sic]. The 34W is what you are actually able to *use* (in
your tablet, etc.) from that. An "ideal" device would consume
exactly as much as your tablet requires -- no "insertion/conversion"
losses.

You'll note that the device gets warmer as your load increases -- cuz
the losses tend to increase (in absolute terms -- power/heat) as your
demand increases.

Q2: How does the device "know" to give tablets 2.4 Amps
(12 Watts) but a "mobile device" only 1Amp (5 Watts).

A USB device can "negotiate" it's power requirements. The socket
(charger) can only deliver what it can deliver. A conforming
device will not ask for more than can be delivered.

E.g., I can connect an iPod to a low power USB connector on a
*keyboard* (notoriously low power because THEY use some of the
LIMITED power available to them on *their* USB connection to
the computer!) and access the contents of the iPod as well
as transfer files to/from.

But, I can't *charge* the iPod over that connection -- because
there isn't enough AVAILABLE power to do so (at least, not quickly)

USB ports (on computers) have sensors in them that will sense if
a connected device has drawn more power than it should. In
that case, the USB port will shutdown -- like tripping a circuit
breaker -- until the device is removed. At that point, the
circuit will (should) reset so another PROPERLY BEHAVING device
can be connected -- without having to replace any real fuses
(which was a problem with old PS/2 and XT keyboards) or
having to "reboot".

Not all USB sockets are well behaved -- as loads *or* supplies!
Caveat emptor.

Q3: What if a mobile device "wants" more than 1 amp?
Does the charger give more than 1A to the device?

In article , Danny D.
wrote:


was it an mfi-compliant cable or a noname one?

How would I know by looking at it?

where did you get it and how much did you pay?

if it's from apple, it's obviously mfi-compliant.

if it's a third party cable, it might be compliant. some are and some
aren't. generally, cheaper cables are not compliant. really cheap
cables are almost certainly not compliant.

the cable itself might not say but the packaging will. companies like
to brag that it's compliant.

non-compliant cables don't always melt. it simply means it doesn't meet
apple's standards of quality and construction and may not work
properly, notably with syncing (charging usually works but not always).

In article , Danny D.
wrote:


probably what it consumes, not what it outputs.

It can't be the input because 100-220VAC times the maximum stated
800mA input current is 80 Watts (give or take) input, which would
be about right assuming 50% efficiency.

true.

note that the charger itself doesn't say 40w
https://i.imgur.com/8bl7ypU.jpg

usb devices initially get 100ma and then request how much power they
really want. the charger responds with how much it can supply.

That is interesting. So, when I plugged in the iPad, it "asked" for
100mA, and then it asked for more, so the charger gave it more?

100ma is guaranteed without doing anything.

if a device needs more (many do), they need to request more power, and
must do so using less than 100ma.

standard usb ports should be able to provide 500ma. a bus-powered hub,
such as a keyboard, can't supply 500ma to downstream devices (it could
only supply 500-whatever it takes) so it will decline any request,
which is what causes the 'this device uses too much power' warnings.

recent usb ports can source more current because of usb hard drives
that need 500ma to spin up the drive as well as phones and tablets
that want more to charge faster.

But, then, why did the cord melt?

it's hard to say without looking at it.

one possibility is a defective cord but there could be other reasons.

if you have a continuity tester, try checking the cable for shorts.

nospam wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 14:27:08 -0500:

How would I know by looking at it?
where did you get it and how much did you pay?

I have about a dozen of lightning cables so I don't really know,
as I don't save the packages.

But I think this one may have come from Office Depot as it
was about $10 and it's slightly more than 3 feet long.

Googling, I find this description:
http://www.officedepot.com/a/product...20-ChargeSync/

Danny D. wrote:
nospam wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 13:42:42 -0500:

charging only requires two wires, plus two to negotiate the power.

usb 3 makes *no* difference for a charger.

Thanks.

That explains why each USB socket only has four gold pins on the
white protruding tab.

I did call the company in Edison NJ at 718-499-1000, and, after going
through their operator, I spoke with "Bob", a salesman at the office.

I told him, nicely, that it must be true, otherwise it would
seem to me to be illegal to over represent the output power by 15%.

He didn't know the answer to why it says it outputs 40Watts but at
the same time it says the maximum is 6.8Amps at 5VDC, but Bob said
he'd try to find out and for me to call him back tomorrow.

It looks to me like it says "maximum power" 40 w. It doess not say that is
output power.

Bob F wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 11:43:06 -0800:

It looks to me like it says "maximum power" 40 w.
It doess not say that is output power.

This is true that the package says "maximum power 40W"
which "could" be input power (but nobody cares about
input power - so why would they list it)?
https://i.imgur.com/30qxupn.jpg

The unit says the input is 100-240V at 800mA maximum,
but that doesn't calculate anywhere near 40 Watts.
https://i.imgur.com/8bl7ypU.jpg

100 volts (RMS) times 800mA is about 80 VA (aka Watts).

So, if the 40 Watts is input power, it's under reported
by 50% at 80 Watts actual.

If the 40 Watts is output power, it's over reported
by 15% at 34 Watts actual.

I don't think it's input wattage though, because that
would be reported in volt-amperes anyway (VA).

In article , Danny D.
wrote:

How would I know by looking at it?
where did you get it and how much did you pay?

I have about a dozen of lightning cables so I don't really know,
as I don't save the packages.

But I think this one may have come from Office Depot as it
was about $10 and it's slightly more than 3 feet long.

Googling, I find this description:
http://www.officedepot.com/a/product...20-ChargeSync/


here's the manufacturer's page:
https://www.visiontek.com/cables-acc...ontek-lightnin
g-to-usb-3-0-2-0-charge-sync-cable-detail.html

the fact that it says 'full compatibility with ios 7' rather than
saying it's 'mfi certified' which would guarantee compatibility no
matter what suggests that it's *not* mfi certified.

a cable that's mfi certified would say so, as it's a competitive
advantage over generic cables:
http://www.ianker.com/product/A7114011

apple has this to say about how to check the cables:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204566

On 2015-11-30, Danny D. wrote:
I would just like some advice

Back to "Danny D." again eh?

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Danny D. posted for all of us...



I would just like some advice since I melted a USB cable today
and I realized I don't have the proper troubleshooting skills.

I bought over a half-dozen "Hype Volt" 6.8Amp USB chargers for
stuffing the Christmas stockings:
https://i.imgur.com/Zavgm4B.jpg

I kept one for myself, but, when I used it last night on an iPad
and on an Android phone, the iPad lightning cable melted!

When I pulled it off the iPad, it was noticeably extremely hot,
but it doesn't seem to have damaged the iPad (AFAIK).

So, I'm just wondering what happened, and, more importantly, when
I look at the specs for this device, they don't make sense to me,
so, I have difficulty troubleshooting what the problem is/was.

Here are all the specs off the package and off the device:
DGL Group Ltd. Hype Volt HV-6PT
Model: HC363-5U (also listed as HV-6PT-WHT)
Input: AC 110VAC/60Hz - 220VAC/50Hz (800mA max)
Output: DC 5V, 6.8A total
Maximum Power: 40W
Supercharge: maximum
Universal: 5V@1A maximum

Description:
http://www.amazon.com/Hype-Compact-A.../dp/B00T3FQBHO
http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/hype-vol.../6000193376994

My questions are varied, because I don't understand how it works,
nor how it could have overheated the cable to the tablet.

Here's what it says on the package:
"Smart USB Technology: This adapter automatically adjusts power
output to fit your charging device. Tablets and e-readers require
2 Amp charging, and this adapter will reroute power to the
appropriate USB port you use."

"Charging Combinations:
- 2 tablets + 3 mobile devices
- 1 tablet + 4 mobile devices
- 5 mobile devices
- 3 tablets"

I am confused about both the pure math and how this operates.

Q1: Since 6.8A times 5VDC is only 34Watts (not 40 Watts), how
can they very clearly label it as a 40Watt device?

Q2: How does the device "know" to give tablets 2.4 Amps
(12 Watts) but a "mobile device" only 1Amp (5 Watts).

Q3: What if a mobile device "wants" more than 1 amp?
Does the charger give more than 1A to the device?

Call the CPSC and put them on *RED ALERT* for a recall. The problem is that
it is not an Apple product so therefore you are bleeped. Sound the klaxton.

--
Tekkie

Jolly Roger wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 20:12:47 +0000:

Back to "Danny D." again eh?

I've always been Danny D.

My Google+ page is
https://plus.google.com/112608173732813956628

My Flickr page is
https://www.flickr.com/photos/982871...th/9329893219/

I have been posting mostly to alt.home.repair for years,
and they all know me as a reliable and detailed poster.

On 11/30/2015 2:00 PM, Danny D. wrote:
It can't be the input because 100-220VAC times the maximum stated
800mA input current is 80 Watts (give or take) input, which would
be about right assuming 50% efficiency.

AC watts calculation adds a Power Factor of less than one W = PF x V x A

Your cable probably had some of its twisted wire strands broken causing
the excess heat generation.

Zaidy036 wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 16:30:59 -0500:

AC watts calculation adds a Power Factor of less than one W = PF x V x A

That power factor is only for peak to peak voltage, isn't it?
Do they use the power factor for RMS voltage?

Danny D. wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 21:37:43 +0000:

That power factor is only for peak to peak voltage, isn't it?
Do they use the power factor for RMS voltage?

I just read up on the power factor and I don't think it applies he
http://electronicdesign.com/energy/w...d-volt-amperes

In message
"Danny D." wrote:

Danny D. wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 21:37:43 +0000:

That power factor is only for peak to peak voltage, isn't it?
Do they use the power factor for RMS voltage?

I just read up on the power factor and I don't think it applies he
http://electronicdesign.com/energy/w...d-volt-amperes

Of course it applies here. Read again and keep reading until you
understand it.

Dave

Dave Higton wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 22:32:11 +0000:

Of course it applies here. Read again and keep reading until you
understand it.

But if you're saying the 40W is actually 40VA, where is the math
that backs that up?

All "my" math (given only the printed numbers), come up with
34 Watts (DC) output with about 80VA (RMS) input.

Nothing is even close to 40W or 40VA.

Danny D. wrote:
Danny D. wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 21:37:43 +0000:

That power factor is only for peak to peak voltage, isn't it?
Do they use the power factor for RMS voltage?

What is power factor? USB works on DC current.

I just read up on the power factor and I don't think it applies he
http://electronicdesign.com/energy/w...d-volt-amperes

Tony Hwang wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 17:12:02 -0700:

What is power factor? USB works on DC current.

I don't fully understand the power factor but it only applies,
AFAIK, to the AC input voltage time current.

Even then, I think it only applies when you add multiple AC
wattages up.

The voltage and current fluctuate so, even if you pick the
RMS voltage and current of the one AC signal, if you try to
add it to another AC signal with a different phase, then
you have to factor in the power factor.

At least that's how I understood it after reading about it,
but, I don't think the power factor applies here, as you said, b
because we only care about the output power, which is DC.

Danny D. wrote, on Tue, 01 Dec 2015 00:20:57 +0000:

The voltage and current fluctuate so, even if you pick the
RMS voltage and current of the one AC signal, if you try to
add it to another AC signal with a different phase, then
you have to factor in the power factor.

This article says the AC power factor plays a role whenever the
AC current and the AC voltage are not in phase:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor

I think the whole power factor thing is a red herring because
we're talking output power, which is DC, which has both the
current and voltage in phase.

Only if the 40W is for the input power would the AC power factor
matter, and, if that 40W was for the input, it wouldn't be called
Watts - it would be called VA (volt amperes) anyway.

So, I don't think the AC power factor applies in this question.

nospam wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 15:09:53 -0500:

apple has this to say about how to check the cables:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204566

Thank you for that reference. It's pretty clear from the white
faceplate and the lack of printing on the cable that it's not
an Apple cable, but that doesn't mean the cable is bad.

I ran down the iPad today and have it on the same charger with
a different USB cable (this one I think was from Staples because
it's flat instead of being round). So far it's not getting hot,
but I will know by tomorrow.

As for the 40Watt figure, I think it's a lie because I googled
for the part number that is printed on the side of the unit:
https://i.imgur.com/8bl7ypU.jpg

Notice that HC363-5U printed on the unit?

Googling for just that, I find the same unit only with a different
set of markings, which is listed as being 35Watts, which is closer
to the 34 Watts that 6.8 Amps gets us at 5 VDC:
http://www.amazon.com/Hausbell-35W-H.../dp/B00NUREFMO
"Hausbell 35W HC363-5U UL Certified (UL No:E310745)
Family-Sized USB Wall Charger Plug Smart Charger,
Single USB Output 2.4A Max,Output total 6.8A Max,5P-USB Output
for Apple and Android Smartphones,Tablets and More(White)
by Hausbell, Price: $59.99 & FREE Shipping"

Here's the same unit, this time for $15:
http://www.amazon.com/Hausbell-Charg.../dp/B00ORLR1X2

Here's another, again listing it as 35Watts:
http://www.sportinggoodsoutdoor.com/...Apple-and.html

And another:
http://hausbell.net/products/cell-ph...utput-238.html

And another:
http://macbookpro.deal2hand.com/revi...00ORLR1X2.html

So, pretty much, the 40Watts is either a bold-faced lie, or it's
not the wattage of the output.

On 2015-11-30 18:48:43 +0000, "Danny D." said:

nospam wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:45:25 -0500:

was it an mfi-compliant cable or a noname one?

How would I know by looking at it?

Here is a closeup picture of it:
https://i.imgur.com/Dy37Ek8.jpg

It has a USB symbol and that's about it for markings.

Damn! Did you wear out your "Paul M. Cook" sock already?

At least you could have come up with something new and different rather
than one of your earlier well worn nyms.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2015-11-30 20:12:47 +0000, Jolly Roger said:

On 2015-11-30, Danny D. wrote:
I would just like some advice

Back to "Danny D." again eh?

Aah! You also noticed that.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2015-11-30 21:05:58 +0000, "Danny D." said:

Jolly Roger wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 20:12:47 +0000:

Back to "Danny D." again eh?

I've always been Danny D.

My Google+ page is
https://plus.google.com/112608173732813956628

My Flickr page is
https://www.flickr.com/photos/982871...th/9329893219/

I have been posting mostly to alt.home.repair for years,
and they all know me as a reliable and detailed poster.

Then you have a PIA, nymshifting doppelgänger who uses a particular
posting style.
Hmmm...

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Monday, November 30, 2015 at 3:54:06 PM UTC-5, Tekkie® wrote:
Danny D. posted for all of us...



I would just like some advice since I melted a USB cable today
and I realized I don't have the proper troubleshooting skills.

I bought over a half-dozen "Hype Volt" 6.8Amp USB chargers for
stuffing the Christmas stockings:
https://i.imgur.com/Zavgm4B.jpg

I kept one for myself, but, when I used it last night on an iPad
and on an Android phone, the iPad lightning cable melted!

When I pulled it off the iPad, it was noticeably extremely hot,
but it doesn't seem to have damaged the iPad (AFAIK).

So, I'm just wondering what happened, and, more importantly, when
I look at the specs for this device, they don't make sense to me,
so, I have difficulty troubleshooting what the problem is/was.

Here are all the specs off the package and off the device:
DGL Group Ltd. Hype Volt HV-6PT
Model: HC363-5U (also listed as HV-6PT-WHT)
Input: AC 110VAC/60Hz - 220VAC/50Hz (800mA max)
Output: DC 5V, 6.8A total
Maximum Power: 40W
Supercharge: maximum
Universal: 5V@1A maximum

Description:
http://www.amazon.com/Hype-Compact-A.../dp/B00T3FQBHO
http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/hype-vol.../6000193376994

My questions are varied, because I don't understand how it works,
nor how it could have overheated the cable to the tablet.

Here's what it says on the package:
"Smart USB Technology: This adapter automatically adjusts power
output to fit your charging device. Tablets and e-readers require
2 Amp charging, and this adapter will reroute power to the
appropriate USB port you use."

"Charging Combinations:
- 2 tablets + 3 mobile devices
- 1 tablet + 4 mobile devices
- 5 mobile devices
- 3 tablets"

I am confused about both the pure math and how this operates.

Q1: Since 6.8A times 5VDC is only 34Watts (not 40 Watts), how
can they very clearly label it as a 40Watt device?

Q2: How does the device "know" to give tablets 2.4 Amps
(12 Watts) but a "mobile device" only 1Amp (5 Watts).

Q3: What if a mobile device "wants" more than 1 amp?
Does the charger give more than 1A to the device?

Call the CPSC and put them on *RED ALERT* for a recall. The problem is that
it is not an Apple product so therefore you are bleeped. Sound the klaxton.

Danny D. wrote:
Dave Higton wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 22:32:11 +0000:

Of course it applies here. Read again and keep reading until you
understand it.

But if you're saying the 40W is actually 40VA, where is the math
that backs that up?

All "my" math (given only the printed numbers), come up with
34 Watts (DC) output with about 80VA (RMS) input.

Nothing is even close to 40W or 40VA.

If you understand inductive or capacitive reactance in AC circuit.
Most load in AC power has inductive reactance meaning voltage leads
current by certain amount depending on how reactive it is. The more
phase angle, less power factor losing power as wasted(non energy
producing) Power factor is expressed as Cosine Phi So when the angle
difference is zero PF factor is 1 which never will be. Less than one,
VA and W=V*I are not equal. I just explained it in layman talk. Draw
a full Sine wave one for voltage and one for current. In this case
voltage wave leads the current wave by few degrees. So both waves does
not super impose. The difference in phase angle expressed in Cosine is
PF. In the case of capacitive reactance current leads voltage. You
should know conjugatory number? +jR is inductive reactance, -jR is
capacitive reactance. AC circuit impedance Z is root mean square of DC
resistive value plus +/-jR Still Ohm's law like in DC cibut reactance is
additional parameter. I hope I made some sense. If I have blackboard
I could show you with graphics.....

+jR is 2*pi*f*L (f in Hertz, L in Henry) -jR is inversed 1/2*pi*f*C
(C in Farad) Opposite of Impedance Z is called Admittance Y=1/Z

If there is step down transformer involved power can incur some loss due
to poor material like heating up the core iron Not only PF is an issue.
Any power supply produce heat(lost energy lowering effciency)
For an example look at the power supply for desk top or laptop PCs.
Good ones have higher efficiency as well as producing clean very
stable outputs. You get what you pay for applies here too, LOL!

Danny D. wrote:
nospam wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 15:09:53 -0500:

apple has this to say about how to check the cables:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204566

Thank you for that reference. It's pretty clear from the white
faceplate and the lack of printing on the cable that it's not
an Apple cable, but that doesn't mean the cable is bad.

I ran down the iPad today and have it on the same charger with
a different USB cable (this one I think was from Staples because
it's flat instead of being round). So far it's not getting hot,
but I will know by tomorrow.

We have couple iPADs kicking around in the house. I wouldn't use
quality unknown anything with iPAD for the danger of damaging the unit.
Look for UL, CSA,EU approval Logo on stuffs like that. I have O'scope
at least I'd check how clean output they produce EU standard is quite
higher than that of UL.

As for the 40Watt figure, I think it's a lie because I googled
for the part number that is printed on the side of the unit:
https://i.imgur.com/8bl7ypU.jpg

Notice that HC363-5U printed on the unit?

Googling for just that, I find the same unit only with a different
set of markings, which is listed as being 35Watts, which is closer
to the 34 Watts that 6.8 Amps gets us at 5 VDC:
http://www.amazon.com/Hausbell-35W-H.../dp/B00NUREFMO
"Hausbell 35W HC363-5U UL Certified (UL No:E310745)
Family-Sized USB Wall Charger Plug Smart Charger,
Single USB Output 2.4A Max,Output total 6.8A Max,5P-USB Output
for Apple and Android Smartphones,Tablets and More(White)
by Hausbell, Price: $59.99 & FREE Shipping"

Here's the same unit, this time for $15:
http://www.amazon.com/Hausbell-Charg.../dp/B00ORLR1X2

Here's another, again listing it as 35Watts:
http://www.sportinggoodsoutdoor.com/...Apple-and.html

And another:
http://hausbell.net/products/cell-ph...utput-238.html

And another:
http://macbookpro.deal2hand.com/revi...00ORLR1X2.html

So, pretty much, the 40Watts is either a bold-faced lie, or it's
not the wattage of the output.

trader_4 wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 16:44:45 -0800:

My guess is that part of the answer to this is that this is a cheap,
Chinese no-name product. It probably has all the typical confusing
specs, specs lost in translation, etc. Why it burned up the cable,
who knows. What kind of support is there for this? I'm betting not
much.

Hey Trader,

I know you mean "cheap" as in cheaply made, but, try to find a
USB multi-port charger that isn't made in China.

Besides, it's sold for $60 here, so, that's not cheap (if anyone is
dumb enough to pay that much for it that is):
http://www.amazon.com/Hausbell-35W-H.../dp/B00NUREFMO

In article , "Danny D." wrote:
Danny D. wrote, on Tue, 01 Dec 2015 00:20:57 +0000:

The voltage and current fluctuate so, even if you pick the
RMS voltage and current of the one AC signal, if you try to
add it to another AC signal with a different phase, then
you have to factor in the power factor.

This article says the AC power factor plays a role whenever the
AC current and the AC voltage are not in phase:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor

I think the whole power factor thing is a red herring because
we're talking output power, which is DC, which has both the
current and voltage in phase.

Only if the 40W is for the input power would the AC power factor
matter, and, if that 40W was for the input, it wouldn't be called
Watts - it would be called VA (volt amperes) anyway.

?? The definition (or one of them ) of watt is W=VxA (or VA). Are you
saying they are different ? ... if so, why ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt

(snip)

Danny D. wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote, on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 18:00:22 -0700:

We have couple iPADs kicking around in the house. I wouldn't use
quality unknown anything with iPAD for the danger of damaging the unit.
Look for UL, CSA,EU approval Logo on stuffs like that. I have O'scope
at least I'd check how clean output they produce EU standard is quite
higher than that of UL.

They print the UL approval on lighting cables?

Good charger is not just putting out certain voltage. Ihas some smarts
and as charging progresses it tapers back the current. Regulating output
current. El Cheapo charger may charge a device but it can shorten
the lie of battery or damage the device. Spend some money and buy some
decent product.

In article , "Danny D." wrote:
Bruce Sinclair wrote, on Tue, 01 Dec 2015 01:56:02 +0000:

?? The definition (or one of them ) of watt is W=VxA (or VA). Are you
saying they are different ? ... if so, why ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt

We both agree that an AC VA is a watt just as much as a DC
volt time amps is a watt.

I found out later that the 40Watts is almost certainly a lie or
a misprint, since the same part number "HC363-5U" also fits an
exact duplicate looking device, only under a different brand
name, but with the wattage listed as a more reasonably close
35Watts to the calculated 34 Watts maximum output.

So, the input AC power factor is just a red herring, totally unrelated
to anything being discussed here.



And the difference between 35 and 40 W is so small as to be irrelevant too I
suggest.