I got a bathroom. I'm adding a second downstairs right below. I know the
ideal setup would have a source manifold and separate feed lines. Is there
some kind of guide for the cheapskate ? Copper is currently used, although
I still have to reroute existing pipes.

Greg

gregz wrote:
I got a bathroom. I'm adding a second downstairs right below. I know the
ideal setup would have a source manifold and separate feed lines. Is there
some kind of guide for the cheapskate ? Copper is currently used, although
I still have to reroute existing pipes.

Greg

Run from hot water tank 20-25 feet, and cold tap. Still going to use the
1/2 feed from regulator and hot water tank.

Greg

On 03/09/2015 2:53 AM, gregz wrote:
wrote:
I got a bathroom. I'm adding a second downstairs right below. ...
....
Run from hot water tank 20-25 feet, and cold tap. Still going to use the
1/2 feed from regulator and hot water tank.
....

I think you'll be sorely dissatisfied by the result if there's any
possibility whatsoever the two are being used together. That line needs
to go to 3/4"...

--

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 10:05:22 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 03/09/2015 2:53 AM, gregz wrote:
wrote:
I got a bathroom. I'm adding a second downstairs right below. ...
...
Run from hot water tank 20-25 feet, and cold tap. Still going to use the
1/2 feed from regulator and hot water tank.
...

I think you'll be sorely dissatisfied by the result if there's any
possibility whatsoever the two are being used together. That line needs
to go to 3/4"...

--

A big unstated factor is if the new bathroom is a full one, ie with
shower or tub, or just a half bath. Half bath, 1/2" would be fine.

On 03/09/2015 9:30 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 10:05:22 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 03/09/2015 2:53 AM, gregz wrote:
wrote:
I got a bathroom. I'm adding a second downstairs right below. ...
...
Run from hot water tank 20-25 feet, and cold tap. Still going to use the
1/2 feed from regulator and hot water tank.
...

I think you'll be sorely dissatisfied by the result if there's any
possibility whatsoever the two are being used together. That line needs
to go to 3/4"...

--

A big unstated factor is if the new bathroom is a full one, ie with
shower or tub, or just a half bath. Half bath, 1/2" would be fine.

I'd say "marginal"...

--

On 2015-03-09 12:32 PM, dpb wrote:
On 03/09/2015 9:30 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 10:05:22 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 03/09/2015 2:53 AM, gregz wrote:
wrote:
I got a bathroom. I'm adding a second downstairs right below. ...
...
Run from hot water tank 20-25 feet, and cold tap. Still going to use
the
1/2 feed from regulator and hot water tank.
...

I think you'll be sorely dissatisfied by the result if there's any
possibility whatsoever the two are being used together. That line needs
to go to 3/4"...

--

A big unstated factor is if the new bathroom is a full one, ie with
shower or tub, or just a half bath. Half bath, 1/2" would be fine.

I'd say "marginal"...

--

Agreed. Usually the purpose for a second bathroom is if the first one is
in use. This negates that purpose.

On 03/09/2015 11:40 AM, Adam Kubias wrote:
On 2015-03-09 12:32 PM, dpb wrote:
On 03/09/2015 9:30 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 10:05:22 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 03/09/2015 2:53 AM, gregz wrote:
wrote:
I got a bathroom. I'm adding a second downstairs right below. ...
...
Run from hot water tank 20-25 feet, and cold tap. Still going to use
the
1/2 feed from regulator and hot water tank.
...

I think you'll be sorely dissatisfied by the result if there's any
possibility whatsoever the two are being used together. That line needs
to go to 3/4"...

--

A big unstated factor is if the new bathroom is a full one, ie with
shower or tub, or just a half bath. Half bath, 1/2" would be fine.

I'd say "marginal"...

--

Agreed. Usually the purpose for a second bathroom is if the first one is
in use. This negates that purpose.

Oh, it'll "work", just be annoying forever with slow-filling toilet, low
pressure/flow at the sink, etc., any time there's demand in the other
bath simultaneously. It's trivial to fix at the beginning but a
lifetime of aggravation thereafter if don't.

And for the "cheapskate" in the original post, the 1/2" there can be
salvaged and re-purposed for the runs in the new bath after the reducing
tee where it taps off the new main run. And, the 3/4" new run can be
plastic with transition to copper if _that_ concerned about cost.

--

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 12:33:04 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 03/09/2015 9:30 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 10:05:22 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 03/09/2015 2:53 AM, gregz wrote:
wrote:
I got a bathroom. I'm adding a second downstairs right below. ...
...
Run from hot water tank 20-25 feet, and cold tap. Still going to use the
1/2 feed from regulator and hot water tank.
...

I think you'll be sorely dissatisfied by the result if there's any
possibility whatsoever the two are being used together. That line needs
to go to 3/4"...

--

A big unstated factor is if the new bathroom is a full one, ie with
shower or tub, or just a half bath. Half bath, 1/2" would be fine.

I'd say "marginal"...

--

I don't see why it's marginal. I have a 1/2 bath plumbed with 1/2" copper,
works perfectly. The tubing on the fixtures is down to just 3/8". What flow
rate do you think you need at a sink and toilet?

On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 12:40:14 -0400, Adam Kubias
wrote:

On 2015-03-09 12:32 PM, dpb wrote:
On 03/09/2015 9:30 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 10:05:22 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 03/09/2015 2:53 AM, gregz wrote:
wrote:
I got a bathroom. I'm adding a second downstairs right below. ...
...
Run from hot water tank 20-25 feet, and cold tap. Still going to use
the
1/2 feed from regulator and hot water tank.
...

I think you'll be sorely dissatisfied by the result if there's any
possibility whatsoever the two are being used together. That line needs
to go to 3/4"...

--

A big unstated factor is if the new bathroom is a full one, ie with
shower or tub, or just a half bath. Half bath, 1/2" would be fine.

I'd say "marginal"...

--

Agreed. Usually the purpose for a second bathroom is if the first one is
in use. This negates that purpose.
Unless they are on separate floors. You use the one that's closest
and requires the fewest stairs to be climbed.

On 03/09/2015 12:55 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 12:33:04 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
....

I'd say "marginal"...

I don't see why it's marginal. I have a 1/2 bath plumbed with 1/2" copper,
works perfectly. The tubing on the fixtures is down to just 3/8". What flow
rate do you think you need at a sink and toilet?

Bet it's not also on a main feed to a full bath _both_ of which are fed
only by 1/2".

The bath itself will be fine if the flow to it's main isn't restricted.

How good/bad it will be will, of course, also depend on what the other
bath actual configuration is, but I'd err on the side of larger rather
than smaller unless given further details.

It can't cost that much; he can even likely reuse virtually all the
existing 1/2" anyway...

--

On 03/09/2015 1:12 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 12:40:14 -0400, Adam Kubias
wrote:
On 2015-03-09 12:32 PM, dpb wrote:
....

I'd say "marginal"...


Agreed. Usually the purpose for a second bathroom is if the first one is
in use. This negates that purpose.
Unless they are on separate floors. You use the one that's closest
and requires the fewest stairs to be climbed.

Unless, of course, it's already occupied and you're in a hurry...

But, in general, I agree unless it's a household w/ a large number of
occupants it's generally simply a convenience factor probably as high a
reason for multiple as the actual contention in time. FIL raised family
of eight girls with only one for quite a number of years before finally
putting in a small second one in the basement...

--

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 2:16:42 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 03/09/2015 12:55 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 12:33:04 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
...

I'd say "marginal"...

I don't see why it's marginal. I have a 1/2 bath plumbed with 1/2" copper,
works perfectly. The tubing on the fixtures is down to just 3/8". What flow
rate do you think you need at a sink and toilet?

Bet it's not also on a main feed to a full bath _both_ of which are fed
only by 1/2".


Well of course not, but I don't see any evidence that the OP is
proposing sharing that new line either. In my house, the half bath
uses 1/2" pipe that taps off the 3/4" line that serves the master
bath. MB has two sinks, toilet, shower and tub.

At the other end of the house, I have a long run, at least 25ft,
that uses 1/2". It feeds the kitchen sink, dishwasher, utility
sink, the washer and a hose bibb. No problems there either.

The other full bath, upstairs, uses 3/4"

It all works fine.






The bath itself will be fine if the flow to it's main isn't restricted.

How good/bad it will be will, of course, also depend on what the other
bath actual configuration is, but I'd err on the side of larger rather
than smaller unless given further details.

It can't cost that much; he can even likely reuse virtually all the
existing 1/2" anyway...

--

I don't know where the reusing is coming from. All I saw was that he's
putting in a new bath in the basement.

On 03/09/2015 1:32 PM, trader_4 wrote:
....

I don't know where the reusing is coming from. All I saw was that he's
putting in a new bath in the basement.

His second posting (followup to his own first) says "Still going to use
the 1/2 feed from regulator and hot water tank." Seems pretty clear to
me his plan was to simply tap onto the existing 1/2" feed for the second
by cutting in a tee. I'm saying run new 3/4" to that point and reducing
tee there; can reuse that 1/2" run he replaces of whatever length out of
the 20-ft it happens to be. He didn't say about the cold supply but
same idea applies.

--

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 2:45:02 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 03/09/2015 1:32 PM, trader_4 wrote:
...

I don't know where the reusing is coming from. All I saw was that he's
putting in a new bath in the basement.

His second posting (followup to his own first) says "Still going to use
the 1/2 feed from regulator and hot water tank." Seems pretty clear to
me his plan was to simply tap onto the existing 1/2" feed for the second
by cutting in a tee. I'm saying run new 3/4" to that point and reducing
tee there; can reuse that 1/2" run he replaces of whatever length out of
the 20-ft it happens to be. He didn't say about the cold supply but
same idea applies.

--

OK, I'm with you now. I agree if it's all 1/2" cold and hot water
to supply the whole house, then I'd do 3/4" for the portion that will
serve everything up to where the new bath will split off.

On 03/09/2015 2:10 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 2:45:02 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 03/09/2015 1:32 PM, trader_4 wrote:
...

I don't know where the reusing is coming from. All I saw was that he's
putting in a new bath in the basement.

His second posting (followup to his own first) says "Still going to use
the 1/2 feed from regulator and hot water tank." Seems pretty clear to
me his plan was to simply tap onto the existing 1/2" feed for the second
by cutting in a tee. I'm saying run new 3/4" to that point and reducing
tee there; can reuse that 1/2" run he replaces of whatever length out of
the 20-ft it happens to be. He didn't say about the cold supply but
same idea applies.


OK, I'm with you now. I agree if it's all 1/2" cold and hot water
to supply the whole house, then I'd do 3/4" for the portion that will
serve everything up to where the new bath will split off.

Precisely. And, as I reread his posting I'm guessing the idea was to
tap into the cold comes from the point after the regulator and the hot
from the existing run so it's very possible both H&C are affected.

Either way, the correct way that can't cost much actual cash outlay will
be to make it 3/4" to the split-off and will be "garonteed" to be
adequate whereas other may/may not, depending...

Because, as you note, unless there's another water heater it's got the
kitchen as well to supply besides the bath. It would have been marginal
w/ a dishwasher now methinks altho again there's more we don't know than
what we do...

--

On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 13:27:08 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 03/09/2015 1:12 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 12:40:14 -0400, Adam Kubias
wrote:
On 2015-03-09 12:32 PM, dpb wrote:
...

I'd say "marginal"...


Agreed. Usually the purpose for a second bathroom is if the first one is
in use. This negates that purpose.
Unless they are on separate floors. You use the one that's closest
and requires the fewest stairs to be climbed.

Unless, of course, it's already occupied and you're in a hurry...

But, in general, I agree unless it's a household w/ a large number of
occupants it's generally simply a convenience factor probably as high a
reason for multiple as the actual contention in time. FIL raised family
of eight girls with only one for quite a number of years before finally
putting in a small second one in the basement...
Grew up second of 8 - 5 boys and 3 girls - only one bathroom.
Mother grew up oldest of 14. The "bathroom" was in the corner of the
orchard - - - -

On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 13:16:21 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 03/09/2015 12:55 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 12:33:04 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
...

I'd say "marginal"...

I don't see why it's marginal. I have a 1/2 bath plumbed with 1/2" copper,
works perfectly. The tubing on the fixtures is down to just 3/8". What flow
rate do you think you need at a sink and toilet?

Bet it's not also on a main feed to a full bath _both_ of which are fed
only by 1/2".

If it's like my house it IS. 1/2 bath on main floor, full bath
upstairs AND the kitchen, all on one half inch line. Laundry too. 3/4
inch from the meter to the softener, 1/2 inch from the softener to the
water heater and to the cold water feeds.. Cold hard water to the
toilets and one tap in kitchen, cold soft water to kitchen and both
bath sinks, and tub. Cold hard water to outside hose bib.
Sum total of water supply lines in the house.

The bath itself will be fine if the flow to it's main isn't restricted.

How good/bad it will be will, of course, also depend on what the other
bath actual configuration is, but I'd err on the side of larger rather
than smaller unless given further details.

It can't cost that much; he can even likely reuse virtually all the
existing 1/2" anyway...

On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 18:10:34 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 13:16:21 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 03/09/2015 12:55 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 12:33:04 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
...

I'd say "marginal"...

I don't see why it's marginal. I have a 1/2 bath plumbed with 1/2" copper,
works perfectly. The tubing on the fixtures is down to just 3/8". What flow
rate do you think you need at a sink and toilet?

Bet it's not also on a main feed to a full bath _both_ of which are fed
only by 1/2".

If it's like my house it IS. 1/2 bath on main floor, full bath
upstairs AND the kitchen, all on one half inch line. Laundry too. 3/4
inch from the meter to the softener, 1/2 inch from the softener to the
water heater and to the cold water feeds.. Cold hard water to the
toilets and one tap in kitchen, cold soft water to kitchen and both
bath sinks, and tub. Cold hard water to outside hose bib.
Sum total of water supply lines in the house.


I have one bathroom. The feeders to tub and sink are 3/4".
About 5' runs.
The kitchen gets 1/2", about 4' runs.
The washer gets 1/2", about 6' runs.
The garden hose valves are both 1/2", short runs off 3/4".
It was done to Chicago code in 1960. Galvanized.
There are no problems except when one valve is opened the others slow.
That's normal to me.
Some of that is because the pipes are getting scaled up.
When I had a 2-flat with 2 full baths, 2 kitchens, 2 washers
everything was on 1/2" feeders. Chicago code circa 1928.
Galvanized.
No problems, except when one valve is open the others slow.
If that's not acceptable, go with 3/4". It'll slow less.

dpb wrote:
On 03/09/2015 2:53 AM, gregz wrote:
wrote:
I got a bathroom. I'm adding a second downstairs right below. ...
...
Run from hot water tank 20-25 feet, and cold tap. Still going to use the
1/2 feed from regulator and hot water tank.
...

I think you'll be sorely dissatisfied by the result if there's any
possibility whatsoever the two are being used together. That line needs to go to 3/4"...

--

Second full bathroom. The use of both would be very occasional. I'll have
to think about this a while and look things over. Things do slow down when
any two things are being operated. The house I grew up in didn't have any
fancy piping. I never really noticed a huge problem. The regulator might be
a factor too. I know air compressors regulators limit flow if undersized.

Greg

On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 5:30:59 AM UTC-4, Gz wrote:
dpb wrote:
On 03/09/2015 2:53 AM, gregz wrote:
wrote:
I got a bathroom. I'm adding a second downstairs right below. ...
...
Run from hot water tank 20-25 feet, and cold tap. Still going to use the
1/2 feed from regulator and hot water tank.
...

I think you'll be sorely dissatisfied by the result if there's any
possibility whatsoever the two are being used together. That line needs to go to 3/4"...

--

Second full bathroom. The use of both would be very occasional. I'll have
to think about this a while and look things over. Things do slow down when
any two things are being operated. The house I grew up in didn't have any
fancy piping. I never really noticed a huge problem. The regulator might be
a factor too. I know air compressors regulators limit flow if undersized.

Greg

its always best to do a job right the first time, than do a half way job then be forced to do it again. redos cost tons more.......

I woud run PEX lines directly from the meter, and upgrade around te hot water tank to mimize issues down the road. even at resale time many years from now a smart home inspector could catch the issue costig you big bucks, and perhaps even a home sale......

On 3/9/2015 12:40 PM, Adam Kubias wrote:
On 2015-03-09 12:32 PM, dpb wrote:

A big unstated factor is if the new bathroom is a full one, ie with
shower or tub, or just a half bath. Half bath, 1/2" would be fine.

I'd say "marginal"...

--

Agreed. Usually the purpose for a second bathroom is if the first one is
in use. This negates that purpose.

We can't use the word negates, it's racist.

Second WC might be used if you're on the other
floor when nature calls. Oh, no, that's racist.
Offensive to people of flower.

"Well, officer, flower power people are usually
pacifist, but this guy walked up and called me a
nature to my face!"

Is this offense getting a bit out of the realm
of reasonable?

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 5:30:59 AM UTC-4, Gz wrote:
dpb wrote:
On 03/09/2015 2:53 AM, gregz wrote:
wrote:
I got a bathroom. I'm adding a second downstairs right below. ...
...
Run from hot water tank 20-25 feet, and cold tap. Still going to use the
1/2 feed from regulator and hot water tank.
...

I think you'll be sorely dissatisfied by the result if there's any
possibility whatsoever the two are being used together. That line needs to go to 3/4"...

--

Second full bathroom. The use of both would be very occasional. I'll have
to think about this a while and look things over. Things do slow down when
any two things are being operated. The house I grew up in didn't have any
fancy piping. I never really noticed a huge problem. The regulator might be
a factor too. I know air compressors regulators limit flow if undersized.

Greg

If you have 1/2" pipe serving the whole house, I'd bet that the
regulator isn't the limiting factor. I've never seen one with 1/2"
fittings and they typically size the fittings to accomodate the
capacity of the device. Around here, typically you have 1" pipe
coming in from the street, 3/4" pipe serving major/multiple points
of use in the house, 1/2" branch offs for half baths, kitchen,
laundry room, etc.

It seemed there was agreement here that if you do have 1/2" going
everywhere, then the safest option is to replace it with 3/4"
leaving the regulator, then one branch off to the new bath with either
1/2 or 3/4 and the other branch gets connected to the existing
rest of the house. If the rest of the house heads over towards the
new bath anyway, then just replace that section with 3/4". That gives
you 3/4" most of the way to the new bath and leaves the rest of the
house mostly better off too.

On 03/09/2015 11:28 PM, gregz wrote:
....

Second full bathroom. The use of both would be very occasional. I'll have
to think about this a while and look things over. Things do slow down when
any two things are being operated. The house I grew up in didn't have any
fancy piping. I never really noticed a huge problem. The regulator might be
a factor too. I know air compressors regulators limit flow if undersized.

"HUGE?" is in the eye of the beholder, often. If it's "the way it
always was" then don't have any reason to think otherwise.

I certainly wouldn't classify a 3/4" feed run to the reducing tee supply
run "fancy piping"; it's pretty much a standard technique.

In particular, however, as noted before in the sidebar conversations, if
this is the main feed and there's also DW (or may be in the future) or
simply for resale value it can't hurt and surely can't be either very
complicated to do or add much additional expense over the other to
incorporate.

--